ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 909ef790b1f4 - system/kernel: add missing posix_memalign, fixes guarded_heap
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev58179] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=909ef790b1f4+%5E7b1d34856775
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<OscarL> seems like I keep trading one bug for another. switched to nightlies due to "waiting for build package...", now Tracker keeps crashing on me with that "getNumAvailable() == 0" :-/
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<OscarL> App idea for the bored devs: monitor a folder for new files, move them to specific folders given certain rules.
<OscarL> like... new tracker crash .report... move it to ~/Reports/Tracker/
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<Halian> o/
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<OscarL> Halian: welcome to the wee hours of #haiku :-)
* OscarL thinks he would have been better off staying away from messing around with the cmake/zlib .recipes :-)
<OscarL> I guess that if I manage to pull it off, at least it would help to somehow reduce the bus-factor on those recipes, at least.
<OscarL> but boy... I should really learn to take smaller bites :-P
<OscarL> on the plus side... if even *I* can do "X"... pretty good evidence that anyone with a pulse could help out.
<OscarL> time to unplug for a while. Have a good night everyone!
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<Begasus[m]> OK, still no go no matter what I tried, think the last solution is to whipe the partition and start from scratch :(
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<augiedoggie_> you need to figure out why you can't get into the bootloader
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<augiedoggie_> this should be an easy thing to fix if you could go back to a previous state
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<Anarchos> how to use /tmp in RAMFS ?
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<Begasus[m]> backups created ...
<Begasus[m]> augiedoggie_ can't get into bootmanager no matter what I try, so booting previous state isn't possible
<Anarchos> Begasus[m] space bar doesn't work ?
<Begasus[m]> it just produces black screen
<Begasus[m]> let it sit there yesterday for a while, eventualy booted into the installed system, staying at the rocket icon and then nothing
<Begasus[m]> thanks for trying to help out, but I can't think of anything anymore to save the install
<Anarchos> boot on usb key
<Anarchos> or net boot ...
<Begasus[m]> done ... no go
<Begasus[m]> net boot I'm not familiar with
<Anarchos> CD ?
<Begasus[m]> No drive
<Anarchos> there are external usb CD drive. but if you can't use usb stick, the only option is to install the hdd in another computer to install on it
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* Anarchos feels sorry for Begasus[m]
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<coolcoder613> Begasus[m]: What's your problem?
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<JulianTheFox> Hello everyone. I decided to get onto my ThinkPad R40 again. It is a great HaikuBook even tho it's 21 years old. Haiku still feels responcive while Linux has no compatibility with such an old hardware
<Anarchos> JulianTheFox :)
* Anarchos really needs /tmp to point to ramfs...
<JulianTheFox> Yep, hello there Anarchos
<JulianTheFox> Damn, the R40 has one of the best laptop keyboard that I ever typed on
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<JulianTheFox> So yea, the R40's keyboard is really nice to type on, I wish that modern laptops had such a keyboard. This is a haven for my fingers anytime I type on my R40
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<Begasus[m]> screwed :/
<Begasus[m]> cannot boot any usb thumbdrive, nothing found
<Anarchos> Begasus[m] then it is a bios issue
<Begasus[m]> secure boot is disabled, nothing changed sinse last time
<phschafft> Good morning to everyone alive, dead, in between, or in superposition.
<Begasus[m]> doesn't even boot on another laptop
<Begasus[m]> is there a R1B3 iso around still?
<Begasus[m]> 4*
<Anarchos> Begasus[m] you mean your usb key doesn't boot on another laptop ?
<Begasus[m]> nope
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<Anarchos> Begasus[m] did you try to copy a fresh anyboot iso on your usb key ? (i assume you have other computers!)
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<Monni> Begasus: r1b4 iso is still around
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<Monni> https://github.com/zlib-ng/zlib-ng/pull/1798 ... my current playground ;)
<Peppersawce> Some checks were not successful: 92 successful, 20 in progress, 34 queued, and 1 failing checks
<Peppersawce> That's a whole lot of checks
<Peppersawce> Dare I say it's a "Checks Quest"
<Begasus[m]> thanks Monni
<Peppersawce> Did you manage to recover your install Begasus
<Begasus[m]> no Peppersawce
<Peppersawce> Aw :(
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<Monni> Peppersawce: Gotta test limits of checks....
<Peppersawce> haha right
<Monni> Peppersawce: There actually is limit for number of the tests... After that, it just fails to upload the results...
<Peppersawce> I imagine, I'm honestly amazed it supports at least 140+ tests
<Monni> Peppersawce: I think there is room for few more tests, but not many... it does already use batch upload...
<Peppersawce> lol
<Monni> Peppersawce: Used to take 2 days to run all the tests...
<Peppersawce> Hahahaha that's insane
<Peppersawce> any idea how to solve an error like this? "Exception when trying to bind port: Operation not supported"
<Peppersawce> It's from an app that tries to open a tcp/ip connection using boost libraries
<Begasus[m]> till no go, can't figure out why, the usb drives tell me "boost volume is not valid"
<Peppersawce> UEFI?
<Peppersawce> On my UEFI hw I had a hard time making a working stick
<Peppersawce> Only thing that seemed to work reliably was BalenaEtcher on windows
<Begasus[m]> this one is UEFI another laptop also, there the thumbdrive works, on another laptop I get the same as here
<Begasus[m]> using that
<Peppersawce> I have no clue then
<Begasus[m]> also tried a few others then etcher
<Begasus[m]> me neither :(
<Anarchos> Peppersawce for the bind derror, maybe a wrong number for protocol ?
<Peppersawce> Isn't there some linux distro with BeFS support? To boot it and fix the issue
<Peppersawce> ty Anarchos, I'll check :)
<Begasus[m]> been fidling with Neon already
<Anarchos> i really can't understand why booting on UEFI seem so complicated compared to bios ... (i never used uefi).the goal was to make it easier and we got an awful mess it seems
<Monni> I just boot Windows with UEFI and let it boot Haiku...
<Begasus[m]> anarch
<Peppersawce> why is bios all that bad anyway?
<Begasus[m]> Anarchos still have Windows on this install that I don't want to nuke
<Peppersawce> I guess it's not the safest thing but what are the chances I let my laptop be used by somebody other than me
<Begasus[m]> worked here too untill yesterday Monni
<Peppersawce> UEFI's just been a huge gift for Windows
<Monni> Windows 11 removed dual boot recently... but still allows booting Haiku with Hyper-V...
<Peppersawce> The more I hear about Win 11 the more I'm disgusted
<Begasus[m]> well, win11 on this one, but doesn't explain the other laptop only running Haiku 32bit
<Peppersawce> Huge corporation is only interested in integrating ads into their OS
<Peppersawce> While 20+ year old OS issues are still there
<Peppersawce> heck, 35+ years now maybe
<Monni> Removed explorer.exe yesterday... No more ads...
<Peppersawce> Neat, I'll have to remember that in case I need to make the switch
<Monni> Had to boot to Linux to be able to kill explorer.exe, Defender would block fooling around with it...
* phschafft goes back to his corner.
<Peppersawce> Of course it would
<Peppersawce> God forbid you touch one of their exes
<Peppersawce> explorer.exe is still the default file manager?
<Monni> When I compile something, Defender randomly tags them as malicious... Have to call them and ask to fix Defender ;)
<Peppersawce> lmao
<Monni> They used to allow whitelisting some directories, but for some reason it still decides to remove the files...
<Anarchos> Begasus[m] then with windows you can put an anyboot iso on the usb key ?
<Begasus[m]> can't count the numbers of tries I already did
<Anarchos> Peppersawce bios is bad cause it only loads 512 bytes as a boot sector. This is really tiny to boot from.
<Begasus[m]> with different images, last being the beta4
<Begasus[m]> also tried different USB port
<Monni> maybe need to go back to beta3...
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<Anarchos> Begasus[m] is it a bios boot or a uefi boot ?
<Begasus[m]> maybe, not sure monni, but I think I used beta4 with that first install on this one
<Begasus[m]> uefi anarchos
<Monni> I've only tried beta3 on laptop... upgraded that to beta4 while running...
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<Begasus[m]> grabbing
<Monni> If that doesn't work, then it has nothing to do with the image, but UEFI/BIOS settings instead...
<Begasus[m]> strange thing, when I open DriveSetup on another laptop I doesn't show the partitions on the usb drive
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<Monni> ISO files don't have partition table...
<Begasus[m]> stress level is rising with the hour
<Monni> Fixing borked installation isn't fun at all...
<Monni> I remember having to boot from floppy disk, because CD-ROM drive couldn't boot BeOS...
<Begasus[m]> iirc you needed both for BeOS
<Monni> At least for the x86 version.... Haven't tried booting the PPC version even though I have hardware...
<Peppersawce> @Anarchos, it's been enough so far though :)
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<Peppersawce> The bios boot I mean, UEFI just seems like one of the latest hassles nobody asked for
<Peppersawce> Except Microsoft, so they can lock the pc market behind Win
<Monni> I had no issues booting NetBSD, but FreeBSD and OpenBSD didn't boot with UEFI...
<Peppersawce> I'm talking about the general user side ofc, I guess companies could benefit from UEFI in some way I cannot even imagine
<Anarchos> Begasus[m] can't help on that field. I stick to bios, i could not wrap my mind on uefi . It scares me
<Monni> I used UEFI with Haiku...
<Anarchos> Monni once, i recover a borked installation with DiskProbe (put the hdd on another comuter), and find the start/end address of my bfs partition by hand, to recover the partition table in the boot sector... Not fun.
<Monni> Anarchos: I'm using UEFI right now with Haiku... It was es easy as copying one file to the first partition...
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<Peppersawce> Does the Haiku bootloader find what to boot on its own though?
<Peppersawce> UEFI as well here and I have to tell the bootloader how to boot Haiku everytime
<Peppersawce> Still faster than Win 10 boot
<Anarchos> Monni ok, but how this process can be locked by Win 11 ?
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<Monni> I only have bootx64.efi on the EFI partition, nothing else...
<Monni> Anarchos: Secure Boot Advanced Targeting (SBAT)
<Peppersawce> Whatever it is, can't you just setup you own bootloader stuff?
<Peppersawce> And remove that thing?
<waddlesplash> Begasus[m]: what's the issue? you can't get into the bootloader menu?
<Begasus[m]> can't get anywhere anymore @waddle
<Begasus[m]> stupid nheko ...
<Begasus[m]> biab
<waddlesplash> what does that mean?
<waddlesplash> if this system is EFI booted you should still have a working bootloader if nothing else
<waddlesplash> if it's BIOS booted that should be easy to work with
<waddlesplash> and if it's dual booted you should be able to boot into Linux and attach the Haiku partition to a Haiku VM and fix it that way
<Monni> The issue is that he can't boot from USB drive to fix the installation and bootloader only boots the broken installation
<Peppersawce> At this point I'd start thinking about moving the HDD to another pc and fix it from there
<Monni> Tried anyboot images from Beta 3, Beta 4 and Beta 5... All fail to find boot partition...
<Monni> Laptop drives are fun to move...
<Anarchos> is there a mean to move /tmp to a ramfs ?
<Anarchos> there are tracker/ and usb_hidXXX files in it. Is it safe to move them while haiku is running ?
<Monni> I'm pretty sure it's not safe to move while Tracker or any other application is running...
<nephele_xmpp> anarchos: the usb files are debug files, dont worry about them
<nephele_xmpp> not sure what is in the tracker dir however
<Monni> I would just overwrite the environment variable in Terminal and start any applications from Terminal... if the path is hardcoded, then it needs something like overlay FS...
<Peppersawce> opened fifo at '/boot/home/config/var/wesnothd/socket'. Server commands may be written to this file.
<nephele_xmpp> peppersawce: the haiku bootloader is supposed to find the partition to boot on its owh, but for efit this requires the correct gpt partition type to be set iirc
<Peppersawce> I don't see any socket file though, is it normal?
<Peppersawce> I don't know anything about server stuff
<Peppersawce> ic nephele :)
<Anarchos> Peppersawce socket files are used for FIFO, they can be created anywhere.
<Peppersawce> So it works :D
<Peppersawce> Any simple command I could test?
<Peppersawce> Like hello world or something
<Peppersawce> I'm so confused, I'm trying to make a "socket" file to write commands but tracker says it already exists
<Peppersawce> And I can't see it
<Anarchos> nephele_xmpp tracker contains a virtual_directories folder
<Anarchos> nephele_xmpp anyway on my server, tmp was empty so i could remap /boot/system/cache/tmp to /RAM (a mount point for ramfs) :)
<Anarchos> Peppersawce try play with cat echo....
<Peppersawce> sorry if I ask but where exactly? I'm so lost
<Anarchos> Peppersawce in Terminal, socket files have another color. You can try it with 'mkfifo socket_test'
<Peppersawce> kk tyty :)
<nephele_xmpp> Are you using something like flash storage where more writes shouöd be avoided?
<nephele_xmpp> anarchis: curious though, the cache already keeps this in RAM. Sounds to me like ramfs would only prevent it from writing the files, and thus freeing memory.
<Begasus[m]> waddlesplash think I mentioned enough in the logs, tried every track I could think of, for the record, no linux install on this, and the Neon USB stick only works halfway
<Begasus[m]> and not sure if/how it could work in a VM on Windows
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<Anarchos> nephele_xmpp i use a package manager wich takes ages to compile
<Anarchos> nephele_xmpp i did'nt know /tmp was already in ram ?
<nephele_xmpp> All writes to physical disk are in RAM, unless they are evicted. That's what the block and file cache are supposed to do
<nephele_xmpp> especially on older HDDs to minimize the time you have to read from disk by keeping commonly used files in RAM
<Anarchos> nephele_xmpp i know that, but my hdd led was blinking from 9h to 14h ...
<nephele_xmpp> Well, it's writing down the files too :)
<Anarchos> nephele_xmpp it is only temporary files for compilation, that's why i was considering ramfs
<nephele_xmpp> but if your compile, for some reason, creates a massive ammounts of files there it could help maybe?
<nephele_xmpp> but that also means it cant put the files onto the disk if it ever would need to because of memory pressure
<nephele_xmpp> I guess you can only try it to see how it works
<Peppersawce> I'm giving up, the more I search for a way to confirm the whole thing works the more confused I am
<Peppersawce> The program tells me periodically stuff like this
<Peppersawce> 14:14:15 info server: Statistics: number_of_games = 0 number_of_users = 0
<Peppersawce> So I guess it works *shrugs*
<Anarchos> nephele_xmpp machine has 8Gb , should do even for compilation
<Peppersawce> Also I have a bunch of open sockets on the Desktop now, that's not going to be an issue, right? :D
<nephele_xmpp> You can't move the socket away and expect it to still be read from the server
<Anarchos> Peppersawce you opened the game from Desktop ?
<nephele_xmpp> that location it told you, that is what it opens and expects to use
<Peppersawce> I would've tried if I knew that command nephele
<Peppersawce> @Anarchos terminal
<Anarchos> Peppersawce yes, but in wich folder ?
<nephele_xmpp> peppersawce: what server is it anyway? why not try to run a client of it?
<Peppersawce> Desktop, but the socket is opened in the user var
<Peppersawce> I'm trying to check if Wesnoth's Dedicated server works now
<Peppersawce> Before boost threw an "operation not supported" and if failed
<Peppersawce> Now I disabled a call that forced boost into v6 only and now it works
<Peppersawce> Or at least I think it works
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<Peppersawce> Since I'm here I might as well ask, what's the native call in c++ to get the Haiku version?
<Peppersawce> Is it pretty? Does it output "Haiku R1 Beta 5 / Development"? :)
<Anarchos> Peppersawce not sure there is a simple 'c++ native call'
<Anarchos> Peppersawce if it is really needed, i can look into the AboutSystem source code for you
<Peppersawce> Nah, it's not that important
<Peppersawce> I'm using uname and it's fine, a bit cluttery, but fine
<Anarchos> Peppersawce uname doesn't give the hrev
<Peppersawce> I'm calling it uname as everybody seems to call it that ngl
<Peppersawce> it's whatever this is "<< u.sysname << ' ' << u.version << ' ' << u.machine;"
<Anarchos> Peppersawce strange : i remember AboutSystem showing the hrev, now it is 'Walter'
<Peppersawce> Like, the posix-y method or something
<Peppersawce> Huh weird, it says the hrev here
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<Anarchos> with intensive compilation (and induced hard drive use), Terminal takes 20s to respond to Ctrl+Z :(
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<nephele_xmpp> peppersawce: the native way is reading the attributes from the haiku.hpkg
<Peppersawce> Heh, it's a neat idea
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<nephele> there is a uname() call which has the revision
<nephele> that calls __get_haiku_revision
<Peppersawce> .version seems to do it
<Peppersawce> I just copied code Wesnoth uses in case all other id methods fail on linux
<nephele> __get_haiku_revision(void)
<nephele> return sHaikuRevision;
<Peppersawce> The uname version also inputs day, month, hour, minute and second the hrev was compiled
<nephele> from system/libroot/os/system_revision.c
<Peppersawce> Which is basically too much info
<Peppersawce> ty for the info :)
<nephele> the revision takes this from an ELF section from libroot.so
<Peppersawce> Much appreciated :D
<Peppersawce> Tbh I've already given up tho
<Peppersawce> Changing that code again would mean recompiling this thingy and I'm at 95%
<Peppersawce> And it takes like 40 minutes to compile D:
<Anarchos> to get revision from command line : "objdump -s -j _haiku_revision /system/lib/libroot.so "
<Peppersawce> such a clever uses of the fs features
<nephele> that's not a filesystem feature, it's just in a ELF section ;)
<Peppersawce> lol shows how much I understand about this stuff :D
<Anarchos> Peppersawce it is a command to read the info directly into the content of libroot.so
<Peppersawce> Gotcha
<Anarchos> so i see 'hrev58164' in libroot.so though my AboutSystem shows 'Walter'
<Peppersawce> I vaguely remember Walter means dev version
<nephele> walter is "unbranded" haiku
<Peppersawce> But I'd rather see the hrev in your case ngl
<Peppersawce> knock-off Haiku :D
<nephele> there is an option wether to build haiku with official branding and without it
<nephele> walter is used without it
<nephele> but it should still show the hrev?
<Anarchos> nephele https://0x0.st/XYDW.png
<nephele> mine sais "Version: hrevblah"
<nephele> and walter on the second line
<nephele> like yours... but your hrev is missing
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<nephele> though i'm a bit confused why mine sais walter and has official branding, i thought that was an either-or deal
<Anarchos> nephele walter may be used for alpha/beta (aka non official release) ?
<Peppersawce> Wesnoth port is finally complete, yay! :D
<Anarchos> Peppersawce wasn't it already the case ?
<Peppersawce> Server features were missing because of a boost operation not supported in Haiku
<nephele> Anarchos: but the betas and alphas *are* the official releases?
<nephele> do you mean nightlies?
<Peppersawce> I'm talking about 1.18, not the version already on Haikuports btw Anarchos
<Anarchos> nephele or nightlies, yes maybe
<Anarchos> anyway i think there is a comment in the BuildProfile config script where walter is configure
<Anarchos> configured
<Anarchos> nephele maybe it has to do with vim not able to retrieve its defaults.vim settings : maybe i forgot i did a 'pkgman update' and i must reboot....
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* Anarchos can't reboot cause there is a ssh session on the server with 200 compilation target waiting
<Anarchos> is it possible to 'nohup' a running task ?
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<Habbie> there's "reptyr" but it's not in haiku ports. no clue whether it would work
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<nephele> Anarchos: what do you mean by that?
<nephele> if you want to send posix signals you can use "kill"
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<Habbie> Anarchos wants the process to -ignore- SIGHUP :)
* Begasus[m] wants ...
<nephele> Habbie: hmm, plug the processes ear? :P no clue then
<Habbie> :)
<Anarchos> if i reboot, it will close the ssh session, and my compilation on the server will stop
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<error0xff> Hi there! I want to create a video editor for Haiku. My question is what guy libs should I use?
<nephele> error0xff: There is already a native video editor for Haiku, perhaps you are interested in working on it? But in any case Haiku has it's own GUI libraries, for a native application those should be used
<error0xff> whats the name of the video editor?
<nephele> Medo
<error0xff> I know Medo. Mine will work :))))
<error0xff> sory, I'm not kidding
<error0xff> the question is: should I use qt for the guy?
<nephele> If you want to make an application for Haiku, then no, you should not use qt
<nephele> if you want to make a multi-platform application it may be an option however
<error0xff> no, I want to be Haiku dependent
<error0xff> just give me a hint where should I start
<error0xff> I'm new here but I love what you did with beta5 :D
<nephele> have you written software for Haiku before?
<error0xff> no, but I will not die in the next 7 days, so I guess I can learn how to do it
<error0xff> just give me the right start
<error0xff> and I'm out
<nephele> That depends on if you've programmed for haiku before :P give me a second
<error0xff> oki, thx
<nephele> these are some beginner guides for Haiku: https://www.haiku-os.org/development/learning_to_program_with_haiku
<nephele> this is the api documentation: http://api.haiku-os.org/
<nephele> for examples on how to use these I usually check haikus sourcetree, but in your case checking how medo does it would be advantageous
<nephele> medo is basically functional, just missing some further love ;)
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<error0xff> I agree, but I have a much simple approach and a goog knoledge of ffmpeg tricks
<nephele> medo also uses ffmpeg
<error0xff> I know, but if you know the tricks, you get the best result
<nephele> yes, sure. But the hard part of making a gui editor for haiku... is making a great GUI ;)
<error0xff> yup. I will start with learning how the api works
<nephele> this would also be relevant, the haiku user interface guide: https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/HIG/index.xml
<error0xff> thanks! You've made it, guys, this operating system rocks! Love you!
<error0xff> I'll do my best to support you in the future. You'll see :)))
<error0xff> Cheers!
<nephele> anyhow, if you have more specific questions about the api you can also ask here :)
<error0xff> oki. Have a nice day everybody!
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<Anarchos> error0xff https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/api/layout_intro.html saves a lot of time to write GUI.
* Anarchos miss error0xff
<Peppersawce> lol
<Peppersawce> So... meant to ask, ioquake3 suffers from bug #6400 , should I give up on trying to port it? It's not like I can do anything about it, right?
<Peppersawce> Bug would be "BLocker won't unlock from a different thread"
<Anarchos> Peppersawce isn't the bug solved ?
<Anarchos> Peppersawce 6400 seems pretty old
<nephele> Anarchos: no it isn't? but #3 also isn't fixed, age has little to do with that :P
* Anarchos made a discover : F11 works in WebPositive as Alt+<Return>
<Peppersawce> hehehe
<Peppersawce> Solved 9 years ago apparently
<Anarchos> nephele sure but i would have thought that 6400 had been solved.
<Anarchos> nephele reminds me of an exercice in TAOCP : 'write a full OS' (difficulty ****) lol
<Peppersawce> I would guess #6400 solved most instances of it happening
<Peppersawce> Or rather, w/e they did to close it
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<Anarchos> strange behaviour of libroot : 42f+01 instead of 42.0000 https://i2.paste.pics/85b5759a5e188d98910eb10976811628.png?rand=79UHCtcsZX
<Anarchos> this one i could not investigate
<nephele> Peppersawce: i think the "resolution" of that ticket is that one should fix applications triggering this
<Peppersawce> Makes sense
<Peppersawce> I wouldn't know what to edit though, code is all C and I know basically nothing about it
<nephele> I do not know either
<Peppersawce> Also, older games based on a similar codebase don't seem to have patches for this
<nephele> maybe open a ticket at haikuports? :)
<Peppersawce> Hm, maybe I'm wrong, the openarena patch file has a couple of things I didn't do
<Peppersawce> Is Haiku always little endian btw?
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<OscarL> Begasus[m]: I know you are tired of this (sorry again) but... you said earlier that you can boot into the *existing* install. If that's still the case, and you have a older version of zlib in that install... it really should be fixable with the steps I've mentioned by email. I would suggest to double-check that method before deleting your partition or something.
<OscarL> Wish I could be of more help.
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<nephele> Peppersawce: currently? kinda. But not really. It depends on the processor
<nephele> If you just run on a little endian processor that will be what it uses, but for example for a powerpc port that wouldn't neccesarily be the case
<Peppersawce> Ah okok, I was looking at the openarena port code for detecting haiku
<Peppersawce> Which is the same bit of code I copied more or less, but I kept the endian check while in openarena it just says haiku is little endian
<Peppersawce> So I'm keeping it as is
<zdykstra> since Haiku (effectively) only runs on x86/x86_64, it's pretty reasonable to say it's LE-only
<zdykstra> though if it's easy to detect BE, that's a nice future proofing step
<nephele> that quake better run on my wii u
<nephele> :)
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<Peppersawce> lmao
<Peppersawce> ioquake3 is kind of neat that way, it may end up like doom in a few decades, as far as porting goes
<Peppersawce> @zdykstra yes, let's say I did it for future-proofing and not because I have no idea what all those pretty variables mean :D
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<Begasus[m]> OscarL can't boot anything on this install anymore
<Begasus[m]> wiped the partition earlier also
<OscarL> :-(
<OscarL> Sorry to hear that Begasus[m]. I broke my install too with a broken zlib (missing symbols), but was able to get it back the way I mentioned. Then I did again on purpose, just to check.
<Begasus[m]> yeah, read the messages, all no-go here
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<OscarL> :-(
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<Begasus[m]> inrecipe skrooge ... nothing :'(
<dovsienko> in C one common way to detect a big-endian platform is to include <endian.h> and then to test for defined(__BIG_ENDIAN)
<Peppersawce> yeah, it's what they did
<Peppersawce> asked because 3DEyes skipped that part for Openarena
<Peppersawce> which is basically just an older ioquake version
<dovsienko> also, big-endian PowerPC/ARM/MIPS is becoming less common, the main big-endian platform is IBM S/390
<Peppersawce> At this point I'm just assuming that either way is fine
<Peppersawce> Either checking endianness or assuming little endian on Haiku
<Peppersawce> what's the command to close fifo sockets?
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<Peppersawce> Gotta ask since Linux documentation sucks
<Peppersawce> Always taking 3 pages full of gibberish to not explain something that would be clear in 2 lines
<Peppersawce> nvm, rm worked
<OscarL> nightlies Tracker does likes to crash... time for "LD_PRELOAD=libroot_debug.so" :-(
<Peppersawce> Solved the libz thing at least?
<Peppersawce> activating/deactivating and such
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<OscarL> On my end, yes. Also got a working zlib package :-)
<Peppersawce> neat
<OscarL> I really abused Tracker context menues... zero crashes while using libroot_debug.so. Sigh.
<Peppersawce> lmao
<OscarL> doing the same with regular libroot.so... can make it crash in less than a minute :-(
<Peppersawce> guess the debug version is more stable :D
<OscarL> too bad it is also quite slower :-(
<Peppersawce> Aw :(
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<Hanicef[m]> <OscarL> "doing the same with regular..." <- i smell a heisenbug :(
<Hanicef[m]> not sure if it's possible to run something like ubsan on a kernel, though, so it might be really hard to diagnose
<Skipp_OSX> how are you triggering the bug? Is it repeatedly right clicking on a folder?
<OscarL> Hanicef[m]: this is user-space code.
<Hanicef[m]> oh
<Hanicef[m]> nevermind me, then :P
<OscarL> Skipp_OSX: on a Tracker window in list view... starting from the bottom-right corner... start spamming the secondary mouse button as you move the cursor towards the top left corner.
<OscarL> to be clear, that's not my normal usage pattern :-P
<OscarL> but given that each time I got the crash it was related to a context menu... tried the above, and sure enough, it crashes a lot.
<Skipp_OSX> ok, well, I can't reproduce, however, I think I've already addressed this bug in my Tracker Shortcuts PR
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<Peppersawce> Nothing here either
<Peppersawce> Sometime the context menu stretches for some reason though
<Skipp_OSX> I have reproduced in the past, well and it actually crashes in my Shortcuts PR however, I have mitigated the crash by not popping the menu on subsequent right-clicks
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<OscarL> Peppersawce: if it dependes on timing... my install being so slow might be helping triggering it :-)
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<OscarL> Peppersawce: also, when I say spam the right click, I mean... really spam it. think machine-gunning it :-)
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<Skipp_OSX> its a bit hard to see but if you look here https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/tree/src/kits/tracker/ContainerWindow.cpp we don't check if fContextMenu is open while here: https://review.haiku-os.org/c/haiku/+/7197/53/src/kits/tracker/ContainerWindow.cpp#2427 I do check
<Peppersawce> lmao @OscarL, I'm surprised your mouse is still alive :D
<Skipp_OSX> so we just have to add a small change if (fContextMenu->Window() != NULL) { return; } and that will fix the bug.
<OscarL> Peppersawce: I tend to change the microswitchs from time to time on this 20 years old mouse :-)
<OscarL> Skipp_OSX: glad you have you around to figure out this stuff.
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<OscarL> *glad to have you...
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<OscarL> nano again using "invisible char" when I'm typing a commit message :-(. Resizing the Terminal window fixes it at least.
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<OscarL> *that face when "git clean -df" seems to take as much time as actually building the project :-D
<Anarchos> yes git seems to use too much little files for haiku to tackle them
<OscarL> everytime I have do something involving the removal of thousands of small files... performance tanks :-(
<OscarL> wonder if my BFS partition is way too fragmented or something.
<OscarL> bloddy hell, even memory spkikes like crazy.
<OscarL> goes from 700 MiB to 2 GiB... then drops down.
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<OscarL> wish I had run this as "time git clean -df"
<Skipp_OSX> we must be making a copy...
<OscarL> memory graph is pretty insane. Will post a screnie as soon as I'm able to upload it.
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<OscarL> https://ibb.co/x8VN1dt <<< from some minutes ago. current one is the same, but the spikes cover the full width of the graph
<OscarL> all cached mem, apparently, no?
<Anarchos> OscarL it seems
<OscarL> seems like when cache mem drops to around 400 MiB, deletion of files halts.
<OscarL> welp, halted now, with 1.91 GiB, so... that's not it.
<OscarL> mmm, when cache mem drops, used memory goes high.
<OscarL> too bad I'm too dumb to debug these things (or to know how better report them)
<OscarL> This is on hrev58174, btw.
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<Anarchos> how to make a linux partition inactive ? It is flagged active but bootloader is unable to launch it
<OscarL> set a different partition as the active one?
<OscarL> DriveSetup or GParted should do it without much fuzz.
<OscarL> On DriveSetup... right click on a partition, use the "Change parameters..." option
<OscarL> even the UI is getting unresponsive :-(
<Anarchos> OscarL i tried on DriveSetup but paramaters didn't change
<OscarL> DriveSetup now takes forever to open... sigh.
<OscarL> Anarchos: tried doing that here, you're right, setting did not changed. Now wating for DriveSetup to restart, to see if it give the correct values, or still the old ones.
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<OscarL> Anarchos: DriveSetup failed to change the active partition for me too.
<Anarchos> OscarL still the old
<Anarchos> OscarL and i can't reboot (another remote compilation session running ...)
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<OscarL> Right... need to check a reboot... but "git clean -df" still running here, LOL! :-D
<OscarL> and jmairboeck wants me to use separate build dirs for cmake vs cmake-gui... not gonna happen, I'm afraid, if things will be this slow, but 2x.
<OscarL> *note to self*: stay away from large projects.
<OscarL> pretty bananas, if you ask me: https://ibb.co/JtL7Wr5
<OscarL> yay! it finished! after about 40 minutes (just shy of running a build for cmake)
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<OscarL> Anarchos: rebooted after changing the active partition from Win to Lin (on a disk that boots Haiku anyway :-D)... let's see what DriveSetup says now.
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<OscarL> Anarchos: worked.
<Anarchos> OscarL your build ? or changing active partition ?
<OscarL> changing the active partition
<OscarL> Maybe DriveSetup should warn the user that change needs a reboot to take effect.
<Anarchos> yes. it must.
<OscarL> undoing the change now... rebooting... active partition back to the windows' one.
<OscarL> Feel free to open a new ticket for it Anarchos, I'll vote it up at least :-)
<Anarchos> OscarL too little annoying to mandate a ticket :)
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<OscarL> nephele_xmpp will come after you if you complain again about it though! :-P
<nephele_xmpp> I'm confused? why do you need to reboot to change it?
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<Anarchos> nephele_xmpp drivesetup doesn't show the change until reboot
<nephele_xmpp> A UI fault?
<Anarchos> nephele_xmpp not sure of the logic there (i am afraid about all those loader stuff)
<nephele_xmpp> Is this a new error? Drivesetup was recently changed in regards to this
<OscarL> doesn't sounds like DriveSetup's fault to me, given that you restart it, and still shows the old value.
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<OscarL> "Get info" on the ".git" folder of cmake workdir is taking waaaaay too long :-(
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<OscarL> bloody ".git/COMMIT_EDITMSG" is 332.62 KiB. go figure the number of untracked files it listed. /me runs "git config --global commit.status no"
<nephele_xmpp> could be. maybe the disk model has a wrong value stored? not sure how that works
<nephele_xmpp> bug maybe a ticket would be good regardless ;)
* OscarL "elbows" Anarchos towards Trac :-P
<OscarL> HDD led lights up like its christmas already, zero/low CPU usage, git slow as molasses :-(
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<OscarL> can't even open a Tracker context menu... holy contentions, Batman!
<Halian> o/
<OscarL> \m/
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<Anarchos> OscarL i think this slow hdd with git is really a haiku weakness
<Anarchos> OscarL i can't remember if beos was so slow
<Anarchos> (with same hdd)
<OscarL> seems to get exponentially worse with the number of files. anything above, say 4000/5000, and starts to get on my nerves :-)
<OscarL> to be fair, on my BeOS days I had nowhere that ammount of files anywhere.
<Anarchos> OscarL yes but haiku feels slower than before
<OscarL> I do remember the times when using RaiserFS was notably faster than ext2, for example (and BFS being slower than the latter, but with more features).
<OscarL> besides the slowness, that I could dealt with (my hardware is slow anyway), what makes me mad is not being able to close Pe, or open a context menu, etc, while the IO heavy stuff is going on.
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<Anarchos> OscarL yes it seems to suck all the quanta of the scheduler
<Anarchos> OscarL no worry haiku sells itself as 'responsive' :)
<Peppersawce> Probably git's fault anyway
<OscarL> Peppersawce: nah...
<OscarL> same happens if you "manually" delete 12k files.
<Peppersawce> wdym manually?
<OscarL> Select folder from Tracker, hit SHIFT+DEL.
<Peppersawce> I've been periodically deleting wesnoth's work folder 54k+ files
<Peppersawce> Ah yes, doing it that way
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<Peppersawce> No slowdowns here
<OscarL> guess you're not on a HDD then.
<Peppersawce> SSD baby :D
<Peppersawce> Now it makes sense :)
<Anarchos> Peppersawce i prefer HDD , i have no confidence in SSD to keep data ...
<Peppersawce> I get that, the limited amount of writes scares me a lot
<Peppersawce> Realistically though the arm part that reads the disk on an HDD (I don't know what it's called) is bound to break as well
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<OscarL> Say that to my 640 MB Quantum Fireball from 1996, muhahahah! (hope I haven't just jinxed it! :-P)
<Peppersawce> lmao
<Peppersawce> that was a pretty big HDD at the time
<Peppersawce> My first one (about 300MB) lasted maybe 3 years
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<OscarL> For 1996, not really. Early 1998 2GB was pretty mainstream/low end already.
<OscarL> My Maxtor 60 GB on the other hand, that I got in 2001... seemed almost magical :-)
<Peppersawce> Hahaha yeah, I remember those days, my main HDD had like 20 gigs and I was like "I'll never fill this much space
<OscarL> Damn thing still works, but makes my tinnitus go over the roof :-P
<OscarL> "Bottomless" I named it... oh to be that naive again.
<Peppersawce> heh
<Peppersawce> To be fair you could install Doom at least 10000 times on a disk like that
<Peppersawce> About 15k times, more or less
<OscarL> don't get me started on game size inflation.
<Peppersawce> Ikr
<Peppersawce> Welp, opendune saves some stuff in ~/.config
<Peppersawce> And I just realized to fix that I should patch a patch
<Peppersawce> Is that even doable in Haikuporter?
<OscarL> why not?
<OscarL> to do the following:
<Peppersawce> If it's 2 lines or more I'd rather edit the patch manually :D
<OscarL> "haikuport -b foobar", so it unpacks foobar, initialize the git repo, applies current patches...
<OscarL> then you "cd" to that "foobar" git repo, do your thing, git add/commit...
<OscarL> go back to main .recipe folder, run "hp -e foobar". Presto!
<Peppersawce> Ok, that doesn't sound *too* bad
<OscarL> for updating more complex .patchsets... you can either suffer miserably, or learn "the true way (tm)" and follow my guide (currently on offer, only 1 buck!).
<OscarL> j/k, of course, it's on gist.github.com already :-P
<OscarL> Peppersawce: in the "work dir git repo", you can use git as normal, so you can rebase, ammend, or squash commits from the .patchset as you see it fit.
<Peppersawce> hehehe
<OscarL> git commit is really slow. Not helping much with my focusi issues :-/
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<Peppersawce> Sorry, I was suffering through the penalty for having moved opendune files
<Peppersawce> An unskippable opening sequence
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<OscarL> k. moment of truth. let's run a new cmake build without gui, and then see what "hp cmake_gui" does to my workdir.
<Peppersawce> What's this .pki folder in my home
<OscarL> Falkon creates it for some reason.
<Peppersawce> Shoulda been stricter with them recipes :P :D
<OscarL> related to some SSL/TLS/https stuff, I presume.
<OscarL> Damn lazy porter ruining my $HOME!
<Peppersawce> Lol literally
<OscarL> sometimes things slip under the radar..., or you get tired of things after doing most of the port, and leave the remaining work for future people :-)
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<Peppersawce> Yeah, totally understandable ngl
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<OscarL> wonder how difficult would be to get git's FSMonitor working on Haiku.
<Anarchos> OscarL that's how we got latex : i began work and jmairboeck and jhamilton finished
<Anarchos> (jessicah) sorry
<OscarL> Anarchos: team effort for the win! :-)
<OscarL> even if sometimes the efforts are quite isolated in time.
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<OscarL> hey! we hit 200 seeds on the beta5 64 bits iso torrent! :-) (74 for the 32 bits one).
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<Peppersawce> I got blurred and didn't even realized
<Peppersawce> *realize
<Skipp_OSX> https://review.haiku-os.org/c/haiku/+/8374/1 <= OscarL: here is the fix for the right-clicking repeatedly bug
<OscarL> Peppersawce: sometimes happens with Vision, sadly. You may end up talking to the void for a while, before you realize you're "out of the matrix" :-)
<Peppersawce> Huh, good to know
<Peppersawce> I just think I closed it by mistake when testing opendune or something
<OscarL> Skipp_OSX: thanks! will try to test run it after (if?) I finish with cmake :-)
<Peppersawce> Alright, that was an easy fix, time for yet another pr
<Anarchos> Skipp_OSX you seem productive on haiku !
<Skipp_OSX> 19 commits deep so far in this relation chain
<OscarL> 42 mins to build cmake, took 40 to "git clean", lol.
<Peppersawce> So ~this~ in github in a strike
<Peppersawce> Did they know they were making a site for coders? ~ is extremely common in code smh
<Monni> Most of the time non-coders decide what to do and coders just go with the flow...
<Peppersawce> The annoying majority vs the silent minority
<Monni> They had to choose characters that are below 128 for everything....
<Peppersawce> that's a weird limitation
<Monni> Reminds me of using Windows with a Korean font... KRW sign gets everywhere...
<Peppersawce> It's not any better with Japanese locale
<Peppersawce> all "\" get replaced by the Yen symbol
<Monni> I haven't used Japanese IME in a while... Not good with writing Japanese...
<Peppersawce> Fortunately nothing changes with the IME
<Peppersawce> That reminds me, any good IME here?
<Peppersawce> I tried a pretty-old looking one but I couldn't figure out if I could actually have it change kana into kanji
<OscarL> no clue about "good" or bad, coz I don't use any, but BeCJK and mozc maybe?
<Monni> For some languages, I just use copy & paste from my notes... no need to change locale... But I have some old Korean apps that need changing locale as they don't support UTF-8 or Unicode...
<Peppersawce> Maybe it lacks the functionality, or maybe it just lacks a dictionary
<Peppersawce> BeCJK should be the one I tried
<OscarL> reminds me that I should open a PR for BeCJK so it gets build by makefiles, and not with SCons.
<Peppersawce> ありがとう
<OscarL> all I see are 5 squares with numbers in them :-P
<Peppersawce> lmao
<Peppersawce> works here
<Peppersawce> mozc works great, it's exactly what I was looking for
<OscarL> yeah, just my crappy IRC client.
<Monni> I have Japanese font installed...
<OscarL> Peppersawce: building mozc is a real PITA, IIRC. Either that, or I just suck. Most likely both.
<Peppersawce> Totally worth it
<Peppersawce> BeCJK doesn't cut it anymore, or at least not the version in HaikuDepot
<OscarL> not much development going on in it.
<Monni> Who did maintain BeCJK?
<Peppersawce> Haiku without a good IME would be like a haiku that goes 5-7-6
<OscarL> "Anthony Lee" originally.
<Peppersawce> I imagine most work on it now is just making sure it builds
<OscarL> Then the good fellow of Andrew Bachmann.
<OscarL> right.
<Monni> I remember Andrew Bachmann.... He's a legend like mmu_man ;)
<OscarL> right. Andrew did ADA work for NASA, at least for a while.
<Monni> From the Asian BeOS users I only remember tarjan...
<OscarL> IIRC, I should still have a BeShare log with Andrew saying: "BiPolar, you're weird". Should have gotten that on a T-Shirt :-D
<Monni> Making custom T-shirts nowadays is quite cheap and easy...
<OscarL> Right... /me looks for a non-dried-yet sharpie in the desk drawers, and eyes a plain tshirt.
<Peppersawce> I'm conflicted, I want to port ECWolf, but at the same time I don't exactly wanna flood haikuporter with PRs
<Monni> I have a good silk print near where my company's servers are located... cost something like 9 EUR for just one...
<Peppersawce> Especially since the last few days without Begasus there's not many people checking them
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<Monni> Booting Haiku with some hardware is like rocket science... and Begasus is only good with dogs...
<Peppersawce> lmao
<OscarL> Peppersawce: better keep stuff in PRs, that hiding on your SSD.
<Monni> One now-dead BeOS user sent me spindle of DVD discs just so I could burn as much on discs as possible... I've used them to install Haiku on a few desktops and laptops around the province...
<Peppersawce> bless his soul
<Monni> he was weird... collected old serial modems...
<Peppersawce> Heh, everybody's got their quirks
* OscarL hides one of the few PCTel PCI modems that worked with BeOS.
<Monni> I used to hack BeShare in the old days... Add covert features and things like that...
<OscarL> I spent a lot of time trying to reverse the BT848 driver, as I wanted to write one for my SAA713x TV/FN capture card. Only got analog FM and basic RC input working :-D
<Monni> that same guy was sharing XXX rated stuff on Minox's server without anyone seeing...
<OscarL> cmake_gui failed after 32 minutes, with a really, really unhelpful error message :-(
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<Monni> Deciphering build errors is own form of art...
<Peppersawce> Must've been some wild days back then
<Peppersawce> ngl I think I was too young at the time to get into alternative OSes like BeOS
<Peppersawce> First time I heard about Linux was in, like, 2001
<OscarL> "Makefile:165: recipe for target 'all' failed". Jeez, Thanks build system!... I better get some food before running this again in verbose mode.
<Monni> I've been developer for over 41 years... And I'm far from being oldest here...
<Peppersawce> A cheers to all of you seniors still hanging around :D
<Monni> I think Begasus is about 16 years older than me....
<Anarchos> Peppersawce i bought BeOS in 99 (and still have the CDs and manual)
<Peppersawce> tbf I kinda got Begasus must be a senior or something
<Monni> I started using BeOS around 2002...
<Peppersawce> Between the username and his way of speaking... or rather typing :)
<Peppersawce> @Anarchos that's neat :D
<Peppersawce> You should try running it in QEmu under Haiku :D
<Peppersawce> I think I tried Haiku first around... 2010 or something?
<Peppersawce> After some OSnews article I think, it's been a while
<Monni> I had PPC version of BeOS at work...
<phschafft> I liked the Haiku logo. that is what got me here. it is what kept me here.
<Peppersawce> lmao that's a nice reason :D
<phschafft> :)
<Peppersawce> @Monni I had no idea BeOS was actually used for work, was it any popular?
<Monni> Now I only have Debian on PPC... Haven't tried reinstalling BeOS...
<Monni> Peppersawce: Don't know really... We only had one PowerPC machine, rest were Intel/AMD/NEC...
<Peppersawce> I guess most enterprises were locked into using Windows because of Office even back then
<Monni> A lot of Macs when I was studying broadcasting...
<Peppersawce> The OS/2 kind I imagine
<Peppersawce> But it makes sense, it's always been one of their niches afaik
<Monni> Setting up AppleTalk was fun... all the connectors were huge...
<Peppersawce> Huge connectors > Wireless
<Peppersawce> But I guess it's a given in that field
<Monni> Wireless stuff back then was NMT-450 with acoustic modem ;)
<Peppersawce> lol
<Peppersawce> With acoustic modem you mean those old ones that made all those hellish noises while connecting?
<Peppersawce> :D
<Monni> No NMT-900 or GSM back then... GSM phones were size of a suitcase, so not quite portable...
<Peppersawce> I haven't seen any of those phones, but I've seen the bricks that came in the early 90's
<Monni> Motorola MicroTac was nice... Did take nuclear explosion to break it...
<Peppersawce> I had a whole lot of StarTacs hanging around in the house once
<Peppersawce> I wonder where they went
<Peppersawce> But yes, they're not making stuff as durable as back then
<Monni> My dad did drive over MicroTac with Massey Ferguson tractor... Not even a scratch...
<Peppersawce> lmao crazy
<Monni> You can't even drop a modern phone on toilet floor without breaking corner of the screen...
<Peppersawce> So true, old 3310 on the other hand could survive falling from a skyscraper
<Peppersawce> There's also that story of the Gameboy that survived a bombing and still worked afterwards
<Monni> Older Nokia phones were pretty good...
<Peppersawce> With all its plastic half-melted, but still
* phschafft isn't too about the 'huge connectors' part.
<Monni> Later Nokia phones had so hard plastic that it chipped when hit something...
<Peppersawce> As long as it keeps the internals safe
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<Monni> With older phones, the battery did eject and that was all that happened...
<Peppersawce> Now you can't even remove it
<Monni> True on that...
<Monni> I had to replace battery on my secondary phone, it was 9 months pregnant...
* phschafft gets a good step away from Monni.
<Peppersawce> lol, at least you did it before it all blew up
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<Monni> A lot of phones had bad batteries... It was critical to notice when they started to bulge, to avoid phone catching fire...
<Peppersawce> iirc a bunch of years ago exploding iPhones was almost a common thing
<Monni> Not just iPhones... Some Android phones too... including Samsung and some other big brands...
<Peppersawce> Thankfully I'm not into smartphones all that much
<coolcoder613> I used to have one of the "new" 3310s
<Peppersawce> I phased out my (still working) Firefox OS phone like 8 years ago because people at work really wanted me to use whatsapp
<Monni> Here one can't use online banking without a smartphone...
<coolcoder613> made in 2017 I think
<Peppersawce> The phone after it lasted maybe 2 years
<Peppersawce> Is it anything like the real deal?
<Monni> Used to have plastic OTP cards few years ago...
<Peppersawce> I still have a couple that expired 1 decade or so ago
<Monni> I get new work phone every 2-3 years...
<Monni> Should get new one this November...
<Peppersawce> My latest phone is 4 years old and I'm not even sure I wanna buy a new one next
<Peppersawce> I only use it for whatsapp anyway
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<Peppersawce> all calls I get are spam calls
<Peppersawce> all messages are spam as well
<Monni> People here buy iPhone 13 over and over until they are sold out... same for some less known Android phones...
<Peppersawce> I guess some people just can't imagine a world without it... or internet
<Monni> more recent phone models cost at least twice and have various issues...
<Peppersawce> In that case I just hope they'll still make 130~€ cheap baseline smartphones still
<Peppersawce> I say cheap, even these low-end bastards are at least Snapdragons
<Peppersawce> with way too much ram and cpu for what they should do
<Monni> I like something that costs less than 600 EUR... Not too low quality, so things actually run at decent speed and I can use wired headphones...
<Peppersawce> My 4+yo Redmi still has decent performance
<Monni> Some phones cost 2000 EUR... and still lack essential features...
<Peppersawce> Too bad it's Redmi so it's loaded with spyware and unremovable apps
<Peppersawce> Because I didn't pay enough for my phone, clearly
<Peppersawce> So I can't do what I want with it unless I go ahead and root it
<Monni> Even Samsung phones have bloatware/nagware...
<Peppersawce> So annoying, just like what I'm hearing about Win 11
<Monni> I paid for my Windows and I still have to see ads everywhere...
<Peppersawce> Exactly
<Peppersawce> Might as well pirate it at that point
<Peppersawce> Since they'd get enough money as is from the ads they put in there
<Monni> If I wouldn't need Windows for work, I would have switched over to Linux ages ago...
<Peppersawce> Someday, maybe
<Monni> Co-workers use MacOS or something else, so I'm the only one using Windows...
<Peppersawce> That must hurt
<Peppersawce> Not a fan of Apple and their overinflated prices either but at least the OS is snappy
<Monni> At least I don't have to do any compiling for them as that would require MacOS toolchain and it's not available for other operating systems ;)
<Peppersawce> Hahaha
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<Monni> When ever I need to test something for MacOS, I just use CI... But that doesn't preserve any of the binaries ;)
<dovsienko> you cannot fix Windows or iPhone. try to fix Haiku maybe
<Monni> dovsienko: Haiku is broken beyond repair... It's too much different...
<dovsienko> if you are building a perfect general-purpose OS for everything and everybody, maybe
<Monni> I tried to compile some stuff for work using Haiku R1B5, but it ended up with a lot of incompatibilities.... Even with BSD compatibility library, a lot of stuff would need complete rewrite...
<dovsienko> for the scope of this project certain particular things can be made to work good enough in order not to get in the way of users that like the OS anyway
<dovsienko> if you think otherwise, why exactly are in this channel?
* phschafft seconds that question.
<Monni> If I can't fix Haiku, I try to learn how to adapt the code instead...
<Monni> It's pretty much the same as difference between Windows and Linux...
<phschafft> which sounds like a horrible way to do any kind of software development.
<phschafft> But I guess that with whatever many 40 years in the business you would know that.
<Monni> For a lot of applications and libraries, there is two parts... One is generic that works on all operating systems, and the other is OS-specific part...
<Anarchos> 01:20 AM . Time to go to sleep !
<dovsienko> see you
* phschafft doesn't see how that makes any difference.
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<sri> just install a windows 11 on an n305 machine dude
<Peppersawce> What has it done to you? D:
<Peppersawce> Treat you machines better :D
<Peppersawce> ...switch to XP lmao
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<OscarL> Peppersawce: switch to? you guys ever left it? :-P (still have XP on my triple boot Atom N450 netbook)
<Monni> Real people use Windows 3.0... Last good one before they started removing stuff...
<Peppersawce> I remember seeing 3.0 once, was put off by the B/W icons
<Peppersawce> At least 3.1 had colored icons
<Peppersawce> Also, the best windows is a GUI on top of Dos? I could almost agree with that
<Monni> 3.1 also had networking, so you would need a virus scanner ;)
<Peppersawce> lmao
<Peppersawce> Luckily internet wasn't a thing here yet
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