<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] b50868d0d604 - hda: enable power on init
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<PulkoMandy>
so, I ordered a new laptop, I think my Thinkpad X220 is old enough and I could use something faster (and also will use the thinkpad to replace my even older laptop-repurposed-as-server with a less noisy and power-hungry machine)
<PulkoMandy>
let's see how brand new laptops do with Haiku in a few days, I guess
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<Begasus>
crossing fingers for you PulkoMandy
<PulkoMandy>
well if it doesn't work I'll be writing a few drivers before I can start using the machine :)
<x512[m]>
Got Radeon RX 550.
<Begasus>
;)
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<PulkoMandy>
e obvious I guess (no more spending half a day just rebasing and building webkit I hope :))
<PulkoMandy>
I managed to find a 13" laptop with a reasonable number of IO ports (including Ethernet, apparently that's not a requirement anymore for a computer?) and magnesium bidy (not plastic that will break the first time I put it in my backpack. It even has a touchstick for mouse input (but I had to order a separate keyboard that I'll install). Overall I think it'll be good and the performance gains will be quit
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<Begasus>
sounds like a win :)
<PulkoMandy>
we'll see when the machine is actually delivered, keyboard replaced, and Haiku running on it :)
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<utente>
hi all. i use GAMBAS (gambas.sourceforge.net) on GNU/Linux to do my graphical software. it will be nice to have on haiku. I give a lok to recipe to port but is outside my capabilities to recompile all the stuff. I write here to see if someone has my same felling to have it, but also knoledge to do the port.
<PulkoMandy>
hi, you can create a ticket about it (if there isn't one already) at https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports and see if it attracts someone who could do it
<Begasus>
no gentoo package for gambas it seems (list on repology is quit large though)
<Begasus>
Fedora's spec file almost 1800 lines ;)
<Begasus>
the one from Arch +800 lines (could be a challenge) utente :)
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<utente>
thanks PulkoMandy
<utente>
by the way, i like to read wine and gimp are near to be usable! :D
<utente>
Begasus, gambas is available on debian for sure, i use it.
<utente>
i just updated haiku (55891) in virtual machine (haiku64 bit).
<utente>
solution 1: do not istall "providing gimp"
<utente>
then i try to install gimp but package manager sai
<utente>
"the following problems have been encountered. Plese select a solution for each:"
<utente>
nothing provide lib:libpopper>=104.0.0 needed by gimp-2.99.8-1
<utente>
- ignore problem for now
<utente>
shall i "ignore problem for now" or abort installation?
<Begasus>
hmm .. thought that was fixed?
<Begasus>
atleast for 64bit ...
<utente>
i did rhe same uysterday night and the probme was the sam. than wait this mornginh and redo upgrade the systemn and retry istall but problem persist.
<Begasus>
I think a rebuild for gimp should be issued: resolving build dependencies failed: requires "lib:libpoppler >= 104.0.0" of package "gegl-0.4.34-2" could not be resolved build-requires "devel:libcairo_xlib" of package "gegl-0.4.34" could not be resolved requires "lib:libgegl_0.4" of package "gimp-2.99.8" could not be resolved
<Begasus>
gegl is fixed (as a few others there for poppler)
<Begasus>
hi Kokito :)
<utente>
Begasus, it is not clear to me: do you mean are you look inside the issue to fix it?
<Begasus>
yeah utente
<Begasus>
deppendencies should be resolved and a rebuild on the buildmaster should be ok
<utente>
Begasus, do you mean the fix will be propagate int o tepository soon?
<Begasus>
sec :)
<utente>
technically, how time it is neded before i can install gimp?
<Not-c620>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 60d4c35 - gimp, revbump for fixes to the dependencies (#6639)
<Begasus>
this should fire the build on buildmaster
<Begasus>
once finished there it should be able to install
<utente>
Begasus, nice to know. By th way, i read dais ago about wine, but i don't see it in repositories: is still not available or its me i am not finding it?
<PulkoMandy>
yes there are some patches needed on Haiku side that are still being discussed I think
<utente>
it make me excited to know i can have some window software on haiku. i takea winXP still on a spare disk just for some game s i like drom 2000's
<Begasus>
or you could use haikuporter to build it yourself utente (but there's probably a reason it's disabled)
<utente>
to wipe out windows will be.... NICE :)
<extrowerk>
PulkoMandy: why the keyboard needs to be replaced?
<utente>
Begasus, i am not skilled enough and lazy to much to start to learn. I can wait and leave the task of built to some shoulder stronger tan mine.
<extrowerk>
utente: you are a defeatist then :S
<Begasus>
doesn't take too much skills for a build utente ;) (not a developer myself, I leave that to the real ones)
<utente>
i just limit me to report bugs here and there when i spot them.
<extrowerk>
the not-yet merged wine supporting patch in the haiku gerrit makes building the recipe not that easy. You will need to build haiku first with that patch applied.
<utente>
extrowerk, let me find meaning of defeatist, then i can reply to you.
<Begasus>
ah, hence the topic on the forum extrowerk (forgot about that)
<utente>
extrowerk, oh, no, i am not a defeatist. i am one that wait. im too much old, to much fat, to much "loose my energy". sorry, dude.
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<Begasus>
utente, define "old" ;)
<utente>
Begasus, >50
<Begasus>
>55 here ;)
<extrowerk>
it seems it is not enough to get phoronix-test-suite to run, one have to port all those benchmarks and tests too :(
<utente>
Begasus, but despite age, i fell old "inside". i mean, "mental power", "wish to do".
<utente>
maibe i consumed to much "mental gas" in my previous age.
<utente>
i spent years to recompile linux on pentium2 :D
<nephele>
must be pretty outdated by now if it took years :)
<Kokito>
My favorite app QueryWatcher works, but not in replicant mode :(
<Begasus>
lol nephele
<Begasus>
time for some digging Kokito ;)
<Begasus>
waiting for build package gimp-2.99.8-3 to be deactivated
<Begasus>
Populating source package ...
<Begasus>
almost there utente
<Kokito>
Not a programmer, so no idea what to do.
<utente>
nephele, in those years, to recompile Linux need at least 40-45 minutes. Along the time, I did it hundred ot times for linux and also for other big pachages looking ofr optimization from 386 to 686 architecture. Of couse to sai "i spent years" isnot licterally correct, it is used to give the sense of "a lot ot time".
<Begasus>
;)
<utente>
Begasus, i am still here waiting for.
<utente>
i dont run away :-)
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<Begasus>
utente, try now
<utente>
ok
<utente>
Begasus, it ask some libraries, i agree. installin on progres...
<Begasus>
crossing fingers :)
<utente>
installing gimp on progress...
<Begasus>
doing the same on a virtual install too to check
<utente>
by the way, last year was possible to see number of packages inside repositories, now this info is not more availabel on haikudepot.
<utente>
"receiving gimp", is around 35%... need time.
<Anarchos>
i am looking to see if i can install coqtop, the coq ide using gtk :)
<Begasus>
installed ...
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<Begasus>
Already did a build for gimp on 32bit Anarchos ;) (hence the comment there)
<utente>
gimp is running!
<Begasus>
LO building atm
<Anarchos>
Begasus now you just have to hunt the bug, patch it, and releases it healed :)
<Begasus>
ah!
<Begasus>
maybe it's the Beta?
<Begasus>
utente, running nightly ?
<utente>
i opened gimp with no problem.
<utente>
nnoi i try to use a little
<Begasus>
I meant, are you running R1B3 or a recent nightly from Haiku?
<utente>
curso has a graphical glitch. where can i past an image?
<utente>
i run nightly. upgraded 1 our ago.
<Begasus>
k, so must be a R1B3 thing ;)
<Begasus>
bugger, that means rebuidling gimp on a clean nightly for 32bit then (to check)
<utente>
32 bit, sad to say, must be abandoned.
<Begasus>
keeps me on edge (to check library paths etc) :P
<Anarchos>
utente i disagree: i have plenty of 32bits computer i intend to use...
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<nephele>
why would 32bit have to be abandoned...?
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<Anarchos>
nephele not everybody lives in SFBA with iphone/imac :/
<Anarchos>
nephele i already said him we should not abandoned 32 bits.
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<utente>
I just express my opinion.
<utente>
i have 32 bit PC too, an they goes with linux.
<utente>
but haiku, that has a less "man power" than linux maybe - repeat: MAYBE - could consider to focus on mailline 64 bit to not spread around to much effort.
<Begasus>
utente, also when accessing the menu, or just in the work area?
<Begasus>
PS, seems a R1B3 vs nightly issue (not launching)
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<utente>
Begasus, only working area.
<Begasus>
ah k, didn't see it when I launched it ;)
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<utente>
as soon as i close haikudepot, always it appears error message with "red bug" an error on /boot/system/data/deskbar/menu/Applications/HaikuDepot
<utente>
with 4 option: terminare, debug, save report, write a logfile. an button "oh, no!"
<Begasus>
Don't use HaikuDepot myself, mostly pkgman in Terminal
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<skirst>
hello all. is there a haiku equiv to gettid(), or rather syscall(SYS_gettid)? not having much luck finding it on my own
<nephele>
Is that a linux specific thing? the manpage sais it's not the same as posix thread ID
<skirst>
basically just trying to get the native thread id
<skirst>
but i guess it is linux specific, so yeah
<nephele>
Haiku has it's own native thread api indeed... but i'm a bit lost on where the documentation is at the moment :)
<PulkoMandy>
there is get_thread_info
<skirst>
yeah web searches didn't net anything. the haiku book doesn't seem to cover it atm. greping header files was my last resort. so now i have to ask lol
<PulkoMandy>
or simply thread_id = find_thread(NULL);
<PulkoMandy>
the Haiku book is not very complete yet, but the old bebook is still mostly accurate
<skirst>
wow thanks. i did not consider that. the be book that is.
<PulkoMandy>
the situation is a bit unfortunate, Access Co Ltd (current owner of all BeOS tech) granted us a permission to redistribute the Be Book, but under a non-derivative license, which means we can't update it
<PulkoMandy>
so we need to rewrite the Haiku Book from scratch, and so there we focused on the parts that we updated or designed ourselves (and even for these, we didn't make a very good job at it)
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<skirst>
i get it. documenting moving targets is a pain. just wasn't sure how far the api may have diverged from be, so i got to haiku book first
<PulkoMandy>
we have a few extra APIs, for example to convert back and forth between pthread_t and thread_id if you need to
<skirst>
just needed the native thread id for display purposes. to match what the process viewer/slayer is displaying
<skirst>
your tip worked like a charm though, PulkoMandy. thanks!
<skirst>
i'm using std::thread, and std::this_thread::get_id wasn't useful to me
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<atomozero>
sorry, do you have any idea if there is an i2c driver for trackpads?
<PulkoMandy>
there is one but it's not working very well I think?
<Not-c620>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli 5212f28 - expat: bump version
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<Begasus>
re
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<nephele>
wb begasus
<Begasus>
thanks nephele :)
<Begasus>
LO still building on 32bit, so that's a good sign
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<extrowerk>
what could be the reason behind the following strategy: first checking if a lib is available through pkg-config and then NOT using pkgconfig to find out the include dir? What the heck is wrong with people testing random /usr and other folders in script to find the header file? What is the motivation? I won't be ever able to understand *nix people.
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<Niklas[m]>
I just happened to find a new bug :/
<Niklas[m]>
Those stupid Cloudflare captchas for mobbing Tor users do now crash Otter Browser or the QtWebEngine Process of Falkon.I'm not sure if it ever worked in Falkon which tends to crash quite often,but it worked for sure in Otter Browser some days ago.Can anyone else reproduce that?
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<extrowerk>
Niklas[m]: i just don't wisit websites which guarded by cloudflare.
<extrowerk>
But in case you want a usable answer you should give a link so somebody can test it.
<Niklas[m]>
Or if you don't use Tor,you can visit https://captcha.website which always triggers the Cloudflare captcha.That should crash it as well
<nephele>
niklas: nothibg we can do about otter, qtwebkit is unmakbtained for years bow
<extrowerk>
Niklas[m]: that specific page works with WebPositive, it links to a shop where you can buy the "Li*uxUser 02/2022" magazin. Waste of money.
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<Niklas[m]>
It crashes in Falkon,too and that is still maintained...
<nephele>
extrowerk, what's up with your overly hostile comments lately?
<extrowerk>
i am way to otired, i should stop.
<Niklas[m]>
Well,a magazine about Linux is really a waste of money,but they have a really good article about Haiku
<nephele>
I don't think there are many linux or unix fans here, but pointing out that unix bad at every oportunity is a bit too nuch imo
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<Niklas[m]>
But I won't order something like that online anyway lol Will try to get it at Real or Kaufland next week
<nephele>
niklas: falcon or qtwebengine is maintained yes, but not that much by us really, the crashiness has been there the entire time (but presumeably thats okay because "multiprocess")
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<Begasus>
A clean image (latest hrev downloaded earlier) for 32bit still doesn't contain python3?
<nephele>
nightly? release should contain it
<extrowerk>
we could try to rebase the qtwebengine patches on top of the current version. We are many versions behind.
<Niklas[m]>
I know about the crashiness.It's only weird that it's now reproducibly caused by those stupid Cloudflare captchas
<nephele>
why is that wierd? captchas arent very friendly :)
<extrowerk>
Niklas[m]: i haven't seen any captcha with Web+
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<Niklas[m]>
And I hoped that the QtWebEngine port,now that we finally have it,will get much more love and the bugs fixed in a short time :/
<Niklas[m]>
You must connect over Tor to get a captcha
<nephele>
anyhow, if you get it in webpositive file a bug and i will take a look
<extrowerk>
Niklas[m]: please help to maintain it, if you can.
<Niklas[m]>
Web+ doesn't support SOCKS5 proxys,so no Tor there
<Niklas[m]>
Unfortunately I can't help there.I'm making some progress with learning C++ lately,but not enough for such a big web engine
<nephele>
pretty sure we had that conversation before, but web+ should not support any proxies, the OS should
<nephele>
if you know a bit of C++ that is enough to help in webkit land ;)
<Niklas[m]>
I know that we had this conversation before.The result was that I moved to OpenIndiana+Firefox for surfing,but now that my OI machine has no internet currently (waiting for the Ethernet card),I'm forced to use the browsers Haiku has to offer currently (or use Linux,which is worse in every way lol)
<nephele>
I'm happy for more hands on webkit, if you care about proxies that would be a good way to contribute too
<extrowerk>
question: i just made a php8 recipe, should we keep the 7.x?
<Niklas[m]>
If I had very much spare time,I'd update QtWebKit to a more recent version to make Otter Browser more useful.Unfortunately I won't be able to keep up with a project that has dozens of commits each day.And even more difficult would be working on the backlog which happened since the last commits to it
<Begasus>
is anything directly connected to php extrowerk ?
<extrowerk>
let me see...
<nephele>
Why work on qtwebkit?
<Begasus>
(bumps head over poppler push- :)
<extrowerk>
Begasus: there is no recipe declaring cmd:php directly.
<nephele>
Begasus: php is needed for the webkit restsuite iirc
<extrowerk>
nephele: thx for the hint
<Niklas[m]>
Because QtWebKit has multiple great browsers which offer a lot of features and a more modern version would be helpful for many platforms and probably thousands of users
<nephele>
qtwebkit is dead, every maintained qt browser has moved to qtwebengine
<Niklas[m]>
Some still support both,like Otter Browser for example
<Niklas[m]>
(and that's the best browser anyway)
<nephele>
If you want a webkit browser on linux you should use epiphany, its great
<Niklas[m]>
I mean,it seems to support everything the good old Opera Presto did,except addons
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<nephele>
Opera was also a huge festure creep :p
<Niklas[m]>
I use epiphany on my Laptop,but it lacks so many features.It wouldn't be sufficient on my desktop where I use hundreds of tabs
<extrowerk>
Niklas[m]: does it got a torrent client too?
<extrowerk>
and a mail client?
<Niklas[m]>
No,it doesn't
<Niklas[m]>
But Opera Mail was a separate application?
<Vitto>
What's lacking on WebPositive?
<nephele>
It does everything a browser should do, why put that many features into webrowsers?
<extrowerk>
No, i used Opera Presto for mailing for years. It was integrated in the browser.
<Niklas[m]>
Because I want an adblocker,proxy settings (they're missing in epiphany,I have to use environment variables m( ) and some other useful things Otter and Firefox support
<extrowerk>
just like the torrent client, the irc and the rss client too
<Niklas[m]>
But I know this discussion doesn't go anywhere...
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<Vitto>
You seam to regret Netscape communicator
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<Niklas[m]>
I think I'll just ignore future bugs I find,instead of getting into discussions again
<extrowerk>
Niklas[m]: why do you neeed env vars in a browser?
<Vitto>
the bloated big browser with all features
<Niklas[m]>
Because it doesn't have a GUI for configuring the proxy???
<Vitto>
You can guess, I prefer a browser that display html/css and separate programs that do the rest (irc, torrent, mail, etc)
<Niklas[m]>
And there's no actual reason for it,only that it's GNOME bullshit and therefore broken by design lol
<Niklas[m]>
Someone should really write a browser on top of GTKWebkit which is well maintained,with all the features Otter offers.Won't help me on Haiku,but on Unix
<Niklas[m]>
I prefer having IRC,Torrent and Mail in separate programs,too ;)
<nephele>
niklas: epiphany has both the ad blocker and proxy, no? where is the problem
<Vitto>
And what about Firefox or Chromium?
<Niklas[m]>
You need to hack the dconf to change the adblocker blocklist and need to set some environment vars to set the proxy.That's the problem.It must be configurable.
<Vitto>
What do you dislike on them?
<Niklas[m]>
Firefox and Chromium are not available on Haiku.
<nephele>
They are configurable, and you dont need dconf
<Niklas[m]>
I use Firefox everywhere I can.
<Vitto>
And Webpositive?
<nephele>
just set the OS proxy settings, it will work the same for haiku
<Niklas[m]>
Only if you use GNOME as desktop
<Niklas[m]>
If you use Enlightenment,like I do,it won't use the OS settings
<nephele>
and if you dont... use whatever your orher desktop provides for configs for proxy
<nephele>
If thats not compatible that is hardly the fault of epiphany
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<Niklas[m]>
Again,why not just offer an f****ing proxy option in the app settings?Especially on such a bad inconsistent OS like Linux,you can't take for granted that the settings are correctly set and compatible.
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<Niklas[m]>
You can do that at Haiku,because you know that there's only one desktop,one settings app and the options set there are the ones which are correct.But that's Haiku,not Linux.
<nephele>
Its ridicilous to want to fix the disparity of settings in linux by asking each app to reimplement every setting again, thats just putting more oil in the fire
<Vitto>
Sorry, I took the conversation after the begin, you are trying to use a browser in Linux or Haiku?
<nephele>
If you want epiphany to respect enlgihtebments configs the just patch it to do so, or better yet have a was to expose the englihtenment config to dconf to get rid of that
<Niklas[m]>
You don't need to expose Enlightenment settings to dconf
<nephele>
It is one possible solution
<Niklas[m]>
The proxy settings are environment variables.Only the adblocker settings are in dconf,and they're not even configurable if you use GNOME in a user-friendly way.
<nephele>
You can set it on the commandline, no need to use dconf
<Niklas[m]>
Not the adblocker settings.
<Niklas[m]>
The adblocker settings *only* work using dconf,not using environment variables.
<nephele>
I am talking about the adblocking list
<nephele>
you can provide it on the commandline
<Niklas[m]>
Seriously?
<Niklas[m]>
Why is that so badly designed?I didn't know that,and I searched hours for it,and then only found the solution of hacking the dconf
<nephele>
I beg your pardon? thats just the way stuff is done on unix
<nephele>
its either env vars or the commandline
<Niklas[m]>
Browser settings are usually done by opening the settings dialog of the browser,no matter on which OS.
<nephele>
dconf is a great way to have predictable configs, i am not sure why you are so pissed off about there beeing a standard way to configure gnome apps
<nephele>
Lets all copy firefoxes and chromes horroble design, hooray.
<Niklas[m]>
I'm not pissed of by the standard way to configure advanced configs,but that I have to use it to do such a simple thing like setting an adblocker list
<nephele>
on iOS proxy settings are global, like they should be
<nephele>
adblock lists are not configurable, you can only turn them off or on, other apps have to provide them
<Niklas[m]>
Yes,but again,iOS is consistent and you can expect that to work with every combination of programs.On Linux it doesn't work that way.
<nephele>
in that sense epiphany gives you a much eaiser configuration
<nephele>
Linux can have interopability if you patch the stuff
<nephele>
how come the same linux software can use OS settings on haiku but not on linux?
<Niklas[m]>
I don't know
<Niklas[m]>
And I really don't care.Can we end that now?Star Trek Picard begins in only 4 minutes :D
<nephele>
Have fun
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<Niklas[m]>
I'll sure have :D
<Niklas[m]>
And I promise not to annoy you with browser stuff again.I'll just let crashes happen and ignore them in the future...
<nephele>
I would be happy if you report and webpositive crashes or usability issues ;)
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<rennj>
heh
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<jezek2>
nephele: maybe some linux distributions (like elementary os) do that? (the OS settings) - but certainly the philosophy is simply not there (without heavy distro-specific patching)
<jezek2>
but I think the biggest problem is that in linux devs are just arrogant towards the user, no binaries, almost no backward compatibility (and if it is then source only), etc. if there is some bug the other software must be fixed (this is teoretically better, but in practice it's better to workaround until it's solved and deployed universally years later)
<jezek2>
sometimes I just used wine with windows version of the software than dealing with the native linux version (for a linux-first software)