<Begasus>
but you need at least gtk3 and appstream_glib fix for this
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<rennj>
wonderbrush!
<Begasus>
;)
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<rennj>
i think that was beos drawing/paint app
<rennj>
artpaint or something
<rennj>
i remember a paid drawing app for beos, and im not talking gobe
<Begasus>
I like wonderbrush! but the commercial one at that time was able to re-work some of the svg icons, not sure how far this is atm
<rennj>
artpaint was it
<rennj>
yeah svg icons..where we at on that
<Begasus>
paided for wonderbrush, pixel32, refraction ...
<rennj>
damn, you supported the beast
<rennj>
i got lightwave and adobe for sgi irix..paid for version
<Begasus>
that's only the drawing ones, also paided for some other apps
<rennj>
gobe production and chrono trigger and beos i did pay for anyway
<rennj>
productive
<Begasus>
I only paid for BeOS apps at that time ;)
<rennj>
solaris qnx beos actually got money from me
<Begasus>
Would be nice if Pavel continued pixel32
<rennj>
winblows and crapple never!
<Begasus>
same here :)
<Begasus>
well even Refraction was great at that time (compared to others)
<tbcj>
hi! does anyone know if there is a known issue where the gcc toolchain doesn't install on beta3/x86 (32-bit)?
<rennj>
yeah refraction another name i remember
<Begasus>
Dutch developer
<Begasus>
tbcj, doesn't update from gcc8 to gcc11?
<tbcj>
It just isn't present at all, as far as I can tell Begasus
<tbcj>
installed from Live USB onto hard drive using Installer within the past few days
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<Begasus>
did you try running (in Terminal) "pkgman full-sync"?
<Begasus>
at least on my 32bit (VM) it's working ok
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<Begasus>
waiting for build package gtk3_x86-3.24.30-6 to be deactivated
<Begasus>
waiting for build package gtk3_x86_devel-3.24.30-6 to be deactivated
<Begasus>
looks ok
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<tbcj>
OK I will try that, thanks. I have been using HaikuDepot app and have run a full SoftwareUpdate. (Really loving Beta3 btw) When I try to install "gcc_x86" from HaikuDepot, I get a "Fatal error [..] failed to commit transaction: [...] mpfr_x86[...] does already exist ()"
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<rennj>
perhaps try command line vs the gui app
<tbcj>
gcc is supposed to be present after a fresh install, without any user effort though yes?
<rennj>
no clue..
<rennj>
im an a b user or abuser
<Begasus>
not the latest version when you install Beta3
<Not-c620>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 9a09413 - gtkmm3, revbump for 32bit (#6622)
<Begasus>
k, this should "fix" the dependencies
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<cocobean>
Building inkscape.
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<cocobean>
Begasus: libgtkmm (devel) missing?
<Begasus>
that's building atm
<Begasus>
just pushed gtkmm3
<cocobean>
Activating coffee-mode
<Begasus>
;)
<tbcj>
Yeah, I can't get past "*** failed to commit transaction: The to be activated package "mpfr_x86-4.1.0-1-x86_gcc2.hpkg" does already exist." I wonder if I need to do a fresh install. I can't "pkgman uninstall mpfr_x86" because it says "name not found"
<waddlesplash>
try pkgman uninstall pkg:mpfr_x86
<rennj>
the commandline!
<Begasus>
ok, so far all dependencies build ok on buildmaster
<tbcj>
*** Failed to find a match for "pkg:mpfr_x86": Name not found
<Begasus>
pkgman uninstall mpfr_x86 ?
<tbcj>
right, that also says "Name not found"
<Begasus>
did you check if it's in "/boot/system/packages"?
<waddlesplash>
you may need to just reboot, the package may be scheduled for deactivation
<waddlesplash>
but due to pending upgrades it can't be at present
<Begasus>
tbcj, how do you check the presence of the new compiler?
<tbcj>
ok. i'll try a reboot. "ls -d /packages/*mpfr*" turns up nothing. it *did* have something there before, but i did a "pkgman uninstall" of it
<tbcj>
i do `find /boot/system -name \*gcc\* -ls`
<Begasus>
in Terminal
<Begasus>
switch compiler with "setarch x86"
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<Begasus>
"gcc -v"
<tbcj>
oh nice, hadn't tried that. even after "setarch x86" i've got "cc: command not found" and "gcc: command not found"
<tbcj>
no results for "which cc" or "which gcc"
<tbcj>
i'll reboot and brb
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<tbcj>
party time. a reboot did it. thanks waddlesplash! reboot -> pkgman update -> many packages (incl. haiku_devel and haiku_x86_devel) -> setarch x86 -> gcc -v == gcc version 11.2.0 (2021_07_28)
<tbcj>
time to wear my "We Be Geeks" pocket protector from BUG days
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<Begasus>
nice :)
<Begasus>
heading down here
<Begasus>
g'night peeps
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) Now trying to compile Haiku in 32 bitHaiku. Looks like using the new compiler rather than GCC 2 makes the configure work, at least it's still running after 20 minutes.
<cocobean>
GIMP x86 launch: uuid_unparse - Missing symbol
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) Almost worked, needs ZSTD compression library to compile the build system for Haiku.
<B2IA>
(AGMS) pkgman install zstd_x86_devel...
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) Looks like that fix is making it go longer, now an hour of configuring has passed (compiling compilers).
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<rennj>
hmm fakebook zstd
<rennj>
lzma!
<rennj>
squashfs is your friend
<rennj>
was good day when that made it into the kernel
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<Anarchos>
i have a server blocked on read, and client blocked on write, all on same local port :/
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<extrowerk>
waddlesplash: we once discussed the iprowifi4965 is faster than idualwifi7260. I decided to test it and swap the idualwifi7260 card to a iprowifi4965 one to enjoy maximum speed and compatibility.
<extrowerk>
But it is not whitelisted in the bios.
<waddlesplash>
ouch
<extrowerk>
so meh.
<extrowerk>
thanks lenovo
<waddlesplash>
7260 cards SHOULD be faster than 4965 ones, but the driver is slower by a lot
<waddlesplash>
and needs a lot of work
<extrowerk>
yep, also i had plenty connection loss in the hotel in england.
<extrowerk>
i basically have everything to do the bios-mod, even the programmer device and the clip too, but i have no other computer at hand to do it.
<Niklas[m]>
If i remember right,it's also idualwifi7260 on this laptop which can scan for wifi networks (and find them) but can't connect to any network.Same problem directly on FreeBSD.
<extrowerk>
idualwifi7260 works on my home network very well, but i have mixed results on open networks (like in hotels and on trains). My card is 8086:08b2: Wireless 7260
<waddlesplash>
2.4GHz networks will work better than 5GHz ones
<Niklas[m]>
I tried it with my Turris Omnia router and Wifi hotspot from my phone,both didn't work.And I always use 2.4GHz because it's supported much better everywhere.
<Niklas[m]>
How do I find out the exact card model from Linux?
<rennj>
lspci and all those -vvv options
<rennj>
lshw is nice also, but doesnt come standard with lot of distro's, lspci should be there
<Niklas[m]>
They say it works on FreeBSD 13 but that isn't true
<Niklas[m]>
It has a driver,but it's buggy.It can only scan for networks but not connect to any.
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<rennj>
my 802.11ac on linux is buggy...take the whole kernel down sometimes... outside kernel source still i think, and the card is old like 6 years now.
<rennj>
depends on the shit network i join really
<rennj>
had 100day uptimes when everything was cool
<Niklas[m]>
I have the feeling that support for Wifi ac on free OSes is generally quite bad.I therefore try to buy only Wifi bgn devices.Unfortunately you don't have a choice what's inside a laptop.
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<rennj>
yeah my m.2 wifi/bt card i pulled ...
<rennj>
pcie wifi and usb bluetooth, but i was buggy rev01 shit
<rennj>
i got 2 802.11ac usb dongles..both outside linux kernel
<Niklas[m]>
I have four different types of bgn usb dongles now lol
<rennj>
linksys wusb > netgear
<rennj>
compiling the driver for each new kernel..the netgear driver is this bloated pig piece of shit
<rennj>
-rw-r--r-- 1 user1 users 64902040 Jun 24 2019 mt7612u.ko
<Niklas[m]>
I've been using two types (multiple dongles from Hama of two different revisions) for years,but both aren't supported by OpenIndiana (both using a similar Realtek chip).
<rennj>
bloated junk
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<rennj>
besides the 2 firmware files
<Niklas[m]>
Then I bought two others yesterday to finally get Wifi to work.Also some Realtek chipset (you don't see that before trying...) and they also don't work.Same as the USB Ethernet dongle,also some Realtek chip,also doesn't work.
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<rennj>
move it to a vm then i guess..and run proper os with drivers for hardware
<rennj>
i run everything in vmware..cause i wasnt going to waste time on bullshit drivers
<Niklas[m]>
Hell no,I don't want to use VM shit for compiling tons of stuff
<rennj>
i compile everything in vm, hell this os i built in a vm..before i had baremetal of it..
<Niklas[m]>
I ordered a PCI-E Ethernet card which should be supported according to Illumos hardware database (RTL8111).I hope it will work then.
<Niklas[m]>
Interestingly,the built-in ethernet port worked perfectly fine when I used Haiku on that machine,but it isn't supported by Illumos :/
<rennj>
its all about the drivers in the end..what good is box with unstable drivers that always crashes or doesnt work
<Niklas[m]>
That's right :/
<nephele>
niklas: most laptop wifi cards can be easily replacef
<rennj>
why i pulled the m.2 card..course 11 screws later, hp under the keyboard removal
<rennj>
the m.2 card was nothing but kernel killer
<Niklas[m]>
I don't think I should open this super modern thing.I guess most stuff is glued anyway
<rennj>
course this was before amdgpu even was working well..like 2016
<rennj>
void the warranty ASAP is my moto
<rennj>
void the warranty ASAP is my motto
<nephele>
almost all cards are mini pcie half size for "modern" stuff iirc
<rennj>
m.2 can be 3 devices, pciE, ahci, usb all on 1 card
<rennj>
m.2 and u.2 slots are nice
<Niklas[m]>
By the way,neither Haiku nor FreeBSD support the touch screen *and* the touch pad so it won't be possible to get rid of Linux here anyway for now
<nephele>
not even trying to open the device seems like a bad choice to me, atleast try to fix the hardware to your liking :)
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<rennj>
or build the box to specs of the os's your going to use
<rennj>
i had nice beos,solaris,amithlon box...
<rennj>
matrox g400, sblive sound, realtek 8139 shit nic but worked on all os's
<Niklas[m]>
I mostly use used stuff because it's a lot cheaper
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<Niklas[m]>
The computer that has internet problems was a gaming PC that was made for Winblows.I got it for free,because the gamer needed a faster one.Probably still worth 1000 euro or more,and has lots of power to compile stuff for the OI repo.
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<rennj>
the difference between baremetal os and vm is only like 10% or something if that
<rennj>
vmware,kvm/qemu,xen,virtualbox all rock compared to long ago
<Niklas[m]>
Since Haiku doesn't support hardware virtualization,it's more like 80% or more difference
<rennj>
i game in win10 vm...
<Niklas[m]>
And I don't want Winblows or Linux as host,they suck
<rennj>
you run the os with the best drivers and baremetal, and run all other os's as vm's
<rennj>
linux doesnt suck
<rennj>
that kernel rocks
<rennj>
solaris kernel sucks now
<rennj>
not enough devs
<Niklas[m]>
Forget about it,VMs are nothing more than toys to try out a new OS before getting the right hardware
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<rennj>
vm's are a way to get the $10,000.00 server to max usage so you get a good TCO/ROI on hardware purchase
<rennj>
idle cpu's are wasting money
<Niklas[m]>
Sure,Illumos needs more love,but at least it's not plagued by the Red Hat "we know everything better and reinvent the wheel a dozen times and force it on every single fucking distribution" cancer
<Niklas[m]>
The Linux kernel is not bad,but the userland keeps getting worse and I can't live with that any longer.
<nephele>
idle cpus are wasting money? more like unecedarily running a vpu wastes energy
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<rennj>
even on 70mhz sparc box we had wabi to run windows...
<rennj>
WABI window ABI on solaris to run windows on sparc box..
<rennj>
not like the cpu was overloaded running solaris and windows on 70Mhz/64MB of ram
<rennj>
android 13 running windows11
<rennj>
yeah..thats reality
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<rennj>
and windows11 running android apps
<rennj>
system A emulates system B
<rennj>
enough processing power today...
<Niklas[m]>
Cool,run crap on crap in two ways lol
<rennj>
well vm's and light weight containers was all the rage past 2 decades
<rennj>
ROI/TCO on the server
<nephele>
containers were invented by opensolaris (atleast, the ubderlying tech)... to come full circle
<rennj>
before vm's you would have your dns server,mailserver,firewall,nfs server...and they would not be fully utilized
<Niklas[m]>
I also plan to finally get rid of Docker when I migrate my server from Linux in a few months.Containers are only making everything more complicated.I try to avoid them when possible.
<rennj>
freebsd had jails before solaris had containers
<nephele>
solaris zones came before jails iirc
<rennj>
so sun didnt invent that light weight process/container
<rennj>
no they didnt
<nephele>
Niklas: I use FreeBSD Jails, it is nice for seperation of stuff
<rennj>
2005 is timeperiod for sun solaris 10 that came with that tech
<nephele>
but i don't use docker or any of that :)
<Niklas[m]>
You could always run multiple server softwares (dns,mail,...) on one server without needing a useless amout of virtual OSes.It could even dynamically allocate the right amount of resources to the process that needs it
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<rennj>
zones and lx zones, and we actually had that tech in the 90's
<rennj>
lxrun or whatever it was called prior
<rennj>
running linux binaries on solaris
<rennj>
meh its all old tech...
<Niklas[m]>
nephele: My plan changed a bit.I'll look into migrating to OpenIndiana instead of FreeBSD.
<rennj>
ibm as400 was like the original
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<nephele>
I don't like the rolling release part, but its probably nice OS
<nephele>
I'm just fairly used to FreeBSD for mx server stuff, so not that motivated to try anything else :)
<nephele>
(although openbsd with pf and opensmtpd is tempting for my mail setup)
<Niklas[m]>
I prefer rolling,that's why I use Arch currently.And I like many parts of the OS more than FreeBSD.And it's made by a very small team that happily accepts any package PR that makes sense and actually works,so I can get the server softwares I need properly packaged and don't need to mess with installing from source
<nephele>
Okay, not sure why you re bringing up installing from source... you dont need to fo that on any nix nowadays
<nephele>
everyone has a package manager
<Niklas[m]>
The downside is that I have to use M$ Shithub to contribute,but well,FreeBSD uses it too if I'd want to try to get anything packaged :/
<rennj>
hehe m$ shithub
<rennj>
nice
<Niklas[m]>
Many of the applications I need aren't packaged usually.
<nephele>
Hmhm, I wonder if i should package my game in haikuports, or try and setup my own repo
<Niklas[m]>
Arch Linux and FreeBSD both have at least a few of them,but not all.OpenIndiana may have none currently (didn't check for all) but if I deliver working recipes,they may all become packaged in the official repo.
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<nephele>
Lile on basically every open system :P
<Niklas[m]>
Some only accept the things they want to have and decline stuff just because they can for no logical reason
<nephele>
Like how haikuports bans electron apps?
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<nephele>
X512: eu is declaring google analytics illegal, that maakes me happy
<nephele>
but just because google is a bigger baddy does not mean one should just ignore micorosft
<Niklas[m]>
Google and M$ are both evil and should die.I also don't advertise Google GitLab.com.Both is shit and there's zero reason to use them if there's also NotABug.org or Codeberg.org or you can simply selfhost Gitea
<x512[m]>
Github allows to freely host open source projects and it is ad free unlike Sourceforge.
<nephele>
somehow i can get by without using any google stuff, but getting rid of microsoft is harder
<Niklas[m]>
nephele: Same here
* nephele
selfhosts gitea
<Niklas[m]>
Haven't touches Google shit for years,but need to use M$ Teams again for work soon as they're partially migrating from Cisco WebEx (which worked great on Linux in Firefox!!!) to this stupid piece of shit that enforces M$ Edge
<x512[m]>
nephele: Why Microsoft is harder? I think opposite. Google search, Google Services, Youtube, Android. There are a lot of Google things.
<nephele>
and i use none of them
<Niklas[m]>
Also the lock-in effect on Github is **way** worse than Facebook or Whatsapp
<nephele>
yet i am constantly forced to engage in mircosoft branded document formats, or to engge with github and such because of haiku
<x512[m]>
You can easily migrate repository from Github. Github do not need login to access repository.
<nephele>
you cant even submit a patch without a microsoft account
<Niklas[m]>
You can effectively contribute nowhere in the open-source world if you refuse to use it.And most projects just don't care and don't offer alternative ways to accept pull requests
<x512[m]>
Patch can be sent to developers directly.
<nephele>
github is the epitome of unwarfanted consolidation
<Niklas[m]>
Sure,you can access the public repositorys without an account,but that's not how open-source works.You need to collaborate freely without being forced to a single corporate entity.
<Niklas[m]>
Anyone know Sourcehut?
<nephele>
x512: yes, i do that... and then you or soneone else recoews the patxmch and asks questions, but it is inpossible to respond
<Niklas[m]>
I don't use it because of its confusing user interface,but they do it right: You can email issues and patches directly to the repository without needing an account and it's shown just as if you created it using the web interface.
<nephele>
that is the main reason i contribute so little to the nain tree recebtly, getting patched merged is huge timesink and hastle
<x512[m]>
For example Facebook to not allow access at all without account so it basically don't exist for me.
<Niklas[m]>
But you can avoid Facebook.
<nephele>
anyhow, neither google nor facevooks existance excuses microsoft
<x512[m]>
Registering into each bug tracking and patch submitting system is more troublesome than using Github.
<Niklas[m]>
Most people accept multiple ways for communications but most projects don't accept anything but Shithub
<x512[m]>
Gitlab allows to use Github account.
<nephele>
github is the definition of unwaranted consolidation
<x512[m]>
For me register of a lot of accounts is a serious reason to not contribute/upstream patches to projects.
<Niklas[m]>
It shouldn't be needed to register in the first place
<Niklas[m]>
That's what Gitea does wrong,too
<nephele>
how is forcing everyone to use one service an excuse for that?
<Niklas[m]>
Why not just allow sending issues and patches by mail like Sourcehut does?I see that M$ doesn't want that because they'd lose a lot of control and power than,but Gitea as a open-source project could really support that...
<nephele>
if you dont want to make an account the dont, but dont force ne to make one, and especially dont force people to use a single provider fpr accounts we literally cannot control
<nephele>
Emai is a good example, i can send email to anyone without an account on their server
<nephele>
niklas: our trac doesnt do that either
<nephele>
send issues by email i mean
<Niklas[m]>
There have been plans for federated Git for years already,it's called ForgeFed,but I don't see much progress here :/
<rennj>
m$ copilot says thanks for the free code to mine
<rennj>
now vs-code and copilot are more awesome!
<Niklas[m]>
Yeah,nobody but Sourcehut does it,but it would be so simple and easy to use
<nephele>
git doesnt need federation
<nephele>
like issue trackers, pull requests, wikis etc
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<x512[m]>
nephele: Github also seems to support sending comments with e-mail.
<Niklas[m]>
Only answers.You can't create a new issue by mail without having an account.
<nephele>
x512: i only care aboit not beeing able to use gerrit, sending patches indirectly wastes too much time
<rennj>
doesnt matter what github supports or doesnt support, they are owned by m$
<rennj>
have some principals
<Niklas[m]>
No I feel guilty for having used my M$ Shithub account again recently :'(
<Niklas[m]>
But sending dozens of package patches to the OI mailing list wouldn't have been a solution either lol
<nephele>
i dont have an account
<Niklas[m]>
I wanted to delete mine,but I doubt I can as long as every project enforces that piece of shit.At least I can still use NotABug for my own stuff (and force people to use it :P)
<cocobean>
Inkscape x86 packaging: libinkscape_base.so packaging violation issue
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<cocobean>
Inkscape x86 packaging: ficed
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