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<noobish>
Hiya! Got Haiku installed and working (yay! =)) from a USB stick with the latest of the nightly builds, nonetheless when I tried updating following given instructions, it wouldn't startup after the install (aww! =( )
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<noobish>
ThinkPad T450s, 256GB SSD, not sure of other specs atm can't check it right this second
<OscarL>
noobish: hi.
<noobish>
But from what I think I remember seeing in the debug of an attempted install, the problem is with the video card which is some sort of HD-Radeon
<noobish>
Hi OscarL!
<OscarL>
noobish: nigthlies are inherently less stable than beta5 branch...
<OscarL>
while devs try their best to avoid it... some hrevs might have bigger issues than usual.
<OscarL>
noobish: if the issue is just with the graphics...
<noobish>
I'm aware, but the nightly successfully installed and worked (to however limited an extent) and the other didn't
<noobish>
I don't know if it's just the graphics card
<OscarL>
you can try booting with the safe mode graphics.
<noobish>
I don't know if it is at all,
<noobish>
I installed it and installing worked, but the icons never lit up at startup, just the logo and the greyed out icons
<OscarL>
noobish: also, you should be able to select a previous "state" from the bootloader.
<OscarL>
should allow you to boot with a set of packages that you had before the update.
<noobish>
so with the install media, I should try booting with failsafe graphics driver?
<OscarL>
if that works, making it "permanent" (until you're ready to try even newer nightlies, to see if that solves the issue)
<OscarL>
Not form the install media. From the actual instalation that worked until you updated.
<OscarL>
s/form/from/
<OscarL>
Let me see if I get the facts straight... you booted from installation media, things went well, you installed on SSD/HDD, install went well, booted OK... but stopped working after you updated?
<noobish>
so, installing from media and booting from installation media worked both with nightly and with betaR5,
<noobish>
but only the nightly, both when installed or otherwise,
<noobish>
would actually startup
<noobish>
it seemed to install fine, but the icons didn't light up as they do in the startup sequence
<OscarL>
32 or 64 bits?
<noobish>
64
<noobish>
it is a 64 bit processor in there, I don't know why I should need to try installing the 32
<OscarL>
I had some issues with booting nightlies a few days ago, but that was on 32 bits with PAE enabled.
<OscarL>
Can't remember any "boot-stopping" on 64 as of late :-/
<noobish>
I could come back tomorrow with a pastebin of a lspci printout, if it'd help
<OscarL>
if the issue is just with the radeon driver...
<OscarL>
you can just disable it from the boot menu.
<OscarL>
or try the rest of the safe mode options...
<noobish>
I think that's what it is, but I don't know if it is because I do see the splash screen, it doesn't start up past the unlit-up version
<noobish>
So I would startup holding shift, then choose the failsafe graphics/the other safe mode options?
<OscarL>
to see if one help, and then report back over trac.haiku-os.org with the output of listved and a copy of /var/log/syslog
<noobish>
listved, gotcha
<OscarL>
If you're booting on BIOS mode, yes, holding down SHIFT should work.
<OscarL>
for EFI (but also works on BIOS), you need to tap the spacebar instead...
<noobish>
so in the terminal, just `$ listved >> paste.txt`
<OscarL>
between the end of POST, and before the logo shows up.
<OscarL>
"listdev > foobar.txt", yes.
<noobish>
gotcha
<noobish>
It's about quarter past 10pm (EST), I gotta get some Zs, but I'll be back with the paste
<noobish>
Thanks for your help, OscarL!
<OscarL>
no problem :-)
<noobish>
=)
<OscarL>
take care!
<noobish>
you too
<OscarL>
Mmm, big storm right above me... hope I don't lose power :-(
<noobish>
wait so I should update then try to run those things?
<noobish>
Hope the storm leaves you alone
<noobish>
or just run those things on the nightly install I already have
<noobish>
or run those from a stick built from the betaR5?
<OscarL>
you can try those things before updating, to see if you can actually boot (and then check if there are updates available)
<OscarL>
"pkgman update" from a Terminal
<noobish>
Oh I know I can actually boot from the nightly, installed
<noobish>
but running pkgman update from the nightly led to it not booting
<OscarL>
then choose an older state from the boot menu.
<noobish>
gotcha
<OscarL>
should boot with the packages before the update that causes problems.
<OscarL>
might have been resolved already on an newer update.
<OscarL>
or not..,
<noobish>
good night for real now then!
<OscarL>
so take note of the "state" that actually work.
<OscarL>
Bye!
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<OscarL>
app_server crashed :-/
<OscarL>
had to use "shutdown -q -r" from an ssh connection to reboot the thing.
<OscarL>
(need the "-q" in there, otherwise it tries to communicate with stuff that's dead already)
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<secondcreek>
OscarL: re '-q', good to know, thx.
<OscarL>
normally not needed (or wanted).
<OscarL>
but if app_server went down... :-)
<janking>
morning to you all :)
<OscarL>
hello janking (2 AM down here) :-)
<secondcreek>
OscarL: Guess the Vulcan Grip won't work on that
<OscarL>
heh, yeah... kinda hard in that case :-)
<secondcreek>
no Deskbar
<secondcreek>
Rummaging through my library of Zeta nightly builds, I remember there was one with a resizeBFS(beta) tool.
<OscarL>
that would be nice to have. Not sure if there's some WIP for that hiding somewhere on gerrit or as a Trac patch.
<OscarL>
Gotta love when tools totally lie to you: "Warning: Found old repository format - repopulating the repository ...". LIAR, you did not found any repo. I'm starting from zero :-)
<secondcreek>
I can not ever share anything yT/ZETA/B0ne related, that NDA is ironclad. But the resize tool will make my life easier.
<secondcreek>
b0ne
<secondcreek>
and for f's sake, I think I lost my SoundPlay reg key.
<OscarL>
ouch :-(
<OscarL>
I remember running a sampling profiler on SoundPlay while it played some MP3... it was either hiding the CPU usage somehow... or it was kida magical about how little CPU it used compared to my favorite player (CL-Amp)
<OscarL>
s/kida/kinda/
<secondcreek>
did you do the same profile when it played backwards? I am curious.
<OscarL>
sadly no.
<OscarL>
and can't even recall the name of the profiler... it showed a nice graph while the program was running.
<secondcreek>
well lets do it soon. i bought TuneTracker in 2005 and it came with a license for SoundPlay, just need to get it from D.S.
<augiedoggie_>
there's already a resizefs command in Haiku
<secondcreek>
I'm in touch with him to upgrade from the 2005 version to today
<OscarL>
Saw Dane a couple of times around here not long ago.
<secondcreek>
augiedoggie_: I am looking for the eyecandy DT app
<OscarL>
augiedoggie_: welp, I'd be damnned!
<secondcreek>
BGA iirc put a gui on teh cli command
<OscarL>
augiedoggie_: nice day of learning today... found some "hidden" options for HaikuPorter that will make my life easier.
<augiedoggie_>
if i didn't hate python so much i'd make some changes to haikuporter
<secondcreek>
nice to see that cantata is available, but what about MPD? Anyone tried to port it?
<secondcreek>
darn, I am looking for a project....
<secondcreek>
and sweet that it's there
<secondcreek>
i host streams for friends. the ^^^ is my friend.
<secondcreek>
OscarL: Thx for helping me catch up.
<OscarL>
no problem :-)
<OscarL>
still trying to catchup myself here.
<OscarL>
I ran "time haikuporter -l" (on a fresh install)... holy hell...
<OscarL>
real: 22m39.371s :-(
<OscarL>
and this is on a new SSD. Imagine my pain on HDD :-D
<secondcreek>
spinning disks can be a headache
<OscarL>
"time haikuporter -l | wc -l" (now that all the ".DependencyInfo" and "port.recipe" files got created):
<OscarL>
6850
<OscarL>
real 0m10.659s
<OscarL>
Mmm, PACKAGES_PATH, and REPOSITORY_PATH options on haikuport.conf do help a bit... but the "work-" dirs still will prevent using the same repo for both 32 and 64 bits :-(
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<OscarL>
HaikuPorter creating a work dir + port.recipe for each available port when gathering dependency infos... certainly tanks the initial startup performance.
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<Begasus[m]>
morning peeps
<OscarL>
Morning Begasus[m]-
<OscarL>
s/-/./
<Begasus[m]>
Hi OscarL
<Begasus[m]>
still up? :)
<OscarL>
Yup. Trying to setup my new beta5 installs.
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<Begasus[m]>
think the vmware-addon KDL'd yesterday when closing the VM
<OscarL>
ouch :-(
<Begasus[m]>
Just going to boot/shutdown it now to see if it reapears
<OscarL>
I got an app_server crash... I thought it might be due to the new vmware addon... but no... I was using the one from the repos still.
<OscarL>
(on this install)
<Begasus[m]>
k, no KDL now
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: found some config options for HaikuPorter that will help separate package/repository dirs for different archs...
<OscarL>
but the work dirs still get in the way :-(
<OscarL>
so I'll need to patch haikuporter anyway.
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<Begasus[m]>
OscarL I don't mind the work dirs, only reminds you to clean your builds after checking :)
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<OscarL>
problem is that hp creates the work dir / port.recipe for primary arch without suffix, so it will most likely will be a mess if I try to use it from 32 and 64 bits.
<Begasus[m]>
hp -c should clear that work dir?
<OscarL>
nah... it creates ALL the work dirs when updating the repository :-(
<Begasus[m]>
but only for the "current" recipe it does that yes
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<OscarL>
I ran "hp -l" on a fresh clone, to make it do the "refresh DependencyInfo"s...
<Begasus[m]>
leaves the option to run hp -c before actually run a build?
<OscarL>
took almost 23 minutes.
<OscarL>
on SSD :-(
<Begasus[m]>
yeah, not the best idea
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: it would still do the same process the first time I asked it to build something, so...
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<OscarL>
I just wanted it to do it upfront.
<Begasus_32>
bugger, need updating this 32bit VM
<OscarL>
query port.recipe | wc -l >>> 6977
<OscarL>
why the hell does it writes all those files upfront... beats me.
<Begasus_32>
adjusted that list_workdirs variant only recently to actually clean all those work dirs (not just it's content)
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<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: I have a WIP "list_outdated_work_dirs()", but needs more work still.
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<OscarL>
(idea is to just delete the work dirs for versions that do not match current ".recipe"s)
<Begasus_32>
yeah, mine was a drastic one, clean all* :)
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<OscarL>
Mmm, maybe I should get even lazier... and ask git to do the work for me. I just need to remove work dirs from .gitignore, ask git to clean up... then restore the original gitignore file-
<Begasus_32>
as long as it doesn't need to rebuild all dependency infos :)
<OscarL>
yeah :-/
<OscarL>
man... I was really missing my custom bash profile, lol :-)
<Begasus[m]>
tsss :P
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<OscarL>
why there is still a "~/config/settings/global" folder on a new install?
<nipos>
OscarL: Thanks for telling me about the server issue. I restarted the Tomcat process, now it works again :)
<Begasus_32>
beats me, and not going to check a new install for that :)
<OscarL>
thank you for providing the service nipos!
<Begasus_32>
+1 nipos
<nipos>
No problem, the server is running anyway and has a lot of free capacities
<nipos>
I'm only happy that I installed it on srv-fsn-02, since srv-fsn-01 had a desastrous crash on Monday that lead to filesystem damage and took down Mail, Nextcloud,... 😭 And I'll have to fix that today.
<OscarL>
ouch :-(
<nipos>
That server has always had issues with random crashes, but Memtest86+ shows no hardware issues. This is the first time it damaged files. I thought ZFS was rather safe against that sort of damage, but probably I was wrong
<Begasus_32>
afk for a bit
<OscarL>
opengrok seems to ignore " making it impractical to search for quoted text :-/
<augiedoggie_>
i have a lame git alias set up to list dirty work directories
<OscarL>
confusing terminology, but... that should allow to share/reuse the same downloads for different archs.
<OscarL>
"DOWNLOAD_IN_PORT_DIRECTORY=True", and then "OUTPUT_DIRECTORY=/Data/haikuports/.x86_32" / "OUTPUT_DIRECTORY=/Data/haikuports/.x86_64" (on each install's haikuports.conf file under ~/config/settings/)
<OscarL>
that should allow using only one repo/clone, with shared downloads, and without even patching haikuporter.
<OscarL>
got 24557 files on OUTPUT_DIRECTORY. absulutely insane.
<OscarL>
183.40 MiB of work dirs, port.recipes, and DependecyInfo files :-(
<OscarL>
and that's on a clean haikuports/output_dir combo... where I only run a build for 1 recipe.
<Begasus>
gotta love it :D
<OscarL>
should be able to turn the 3200+ files under repository/.skipped into just one file, once I apply one of my patches. (6.32 MiB should go down to about 250 KiB too)
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<OscarL>
On hrev53251 waddlesplash wondered if "Intel" partitions should be renamed to "MBR". That seems like a good change to make, IMO.
<Begasus>
can't extended partition be labled Intel also?
<OscarL>
I've never seen them called "Intel" on other systems.
<Begasus>
not sure, just a thought :)
<OscarL>
MBR-style partitions, MBR partitioning. etc- Where you can have upto 4 primary partitions, or many logical ones if you use one of the primary partitions as Extended one.
<OscarL>
Calling them "Intel" sounds like someone that used something else than PCs could call them :-)
<OscarL>
specially if you mention the "use PREFIX=/boot/system/non-packaged" for local development.
<Begasus>
guess this could work on any OS, defaults are the same
<Begasus>
yeah, only needs prefix set
<Begasus>
well ... and libdir and includedir :P
<OscarL>
*"PREFIX=/boot/home/config/non-packaged"
<Begasus>
probably should use $(PREFIX)/lib ...
<Begasus>
don't know if Makefile needs () or {}
<OscarL>
no clue
<Begasus>
Terminal to the resque :)
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* OscarL
got NumLock ON on boot again on all the installs. Finally.
<Begasus>
$(RM) $(OBJECTS) $(SHARED_OBJECTS)
<Begasus>
that doesn't work too
<Begasus>
nice OscarL, get's on my nerves at times also
<OscarL>
having to dump the keymap, modify it, and load it again, instead of clicking a checkbox on Keymap preflet is a bit of a pain.
<OscarL>
but.. at least it works.
<jmairboeck>
Begasus: I would maybe still install the .a file and a symlink of the .so file to $(DESTDIR)$(PREFIX)develop/$(LIBDIR) on Haiku. The old version did that too.
<OscarL>
Begasus: if you need NumLock on... use "keymap -d temp.kmap && lpe temp.kmap" (uncomment "LockSettings = NumLock"), save, and then "keymap -s temp.kmap". Then you can remove the temp.kmap.
<Begasus>
jmairboeck, static and shared together wont work, so rm'd the static one in the recipe
<jmairboeck>
I'm thinking about the Makefile in a standalone way, without haikuporter involved
<OscarL>
(if you ever change keymaps from the preflet, you'll need to do that dance again)
<jmairboeck>
the .so.0.1 doesn't belong in develop/lib, that is only needed in lib
<Begasus>
it's there too
<OscarL>
* "keymap -d > temp.kmap"
<Begasus>
this is how it's done for every library though jmairboeck?
<Begasus>
the one in devel links back to the base one
<jmairboeck>
is it? I'm not sure now
<jmairboeck>
ok
<jmairboeck>
sorry
<Begasus>
np :)
<jmairboeck>
I thought develop/lib had only the ones without the version number
<jmairboeck>
but maybe I misremember that
<Begasus>
the base one contains only the versioned ones eg libfoo.so.1.2.3 and libfoo.so.1, the devel package has both linked to the ones in the ase + the libfoo.so link
<Begasus>
works too now : /Share/wip/libnymphcast> make
<OscarL>
me shakes fist at this old Pe binary.
<Begasus>
why so?
<OscarL>
(still 3 PRs pending for Pe before *I* update its recipe)
<Begasus>
can do that localy already? :P
<OscarL>
beta5 comes with an old binary. Yes, I can.. but it is easier to just pkgman install stuff.
<OscarL>
I don't have a central NAS from where to get the custom binaries to each new installation.
<OscarL>
otherwise this feels more like Gentoo than Haiku :-P
<Begasus>
just backup your packages directory?
<Begasus>
or keep away from "full-sync" for a while :P
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<MonniTheCat>
I just use USB stick when I want to copy files over to many machines... Beats burning everything to CD or DVD especially when the machine has no optical drive...
<OscarL>
Begasus: I usually don't make packages for stuff I build locally from my own clones. Only use recipes when... working on recipes.
<Begasus>
any backup medium will do :)
<Begasus>
lost me there OscarL ...
<Begasus>
build localy? I guess that doesn't involve hp then?
<OscarL>
I mean... I build Pe right from my clone of it. outside haikuports.
<Begasus>
you still have the binary then?
<Begasus>
and Pe isn't that hard to build with those patches (with hp) :)
<OscarL>
yes, but then I need to also compile for 32 bits, and move those bins to each new install. etc. etc.
<Begasus>
you still have to? can't use 64bit binary anyway?
<OscarL>
doesn't matter how long it takes. I find it inconvenient as a user, even if I'm the one doing most changes on Pe since long ago.
<OscarL>
Begasus: I can't use the 64 bits binary on 32 bits, can I?
<Begasus>
poke some of the maintainers there? humdinger, waddlesplash, PulkoMandy, korli?
<Begasus>
oh man! :D
<OscarL>
korli already merged a couple or PR... seems to avoid the one where waddlesplash made comments some months ago.
<Begasus>
poke waddlesplash again when he's in your timezone :) (think waddlesplash gets a lot of notices when he wakes up) :D
<Begasus>
HaikuArchives is for the real devs, can't help out there ;)
<Begasus>
src/nymphcast_client.h:22:10: fatal error: nymph/nymph.h: No such file or directory
<Begasus>
OK, having the headers in non-packaged doesn't seem to do the trick?
<MonniTheCat>
Real developer is a myth... Just like unicorns and dragons...
<Begasus>
they are!? :/
<OscarL>
yeah... I don't like bothering the good devs, specially for small stuff like these PRs... but... there's not much people actually doing merged there :-(
<Begasus>
well, Pe is still one of the major parts of Haiku IMHO
<Begasus>
think if there is work being done on it it would deserve the attention, even for comments to request changes if needed
<MonniTheCat>
My first "official" title was junior system analyst, then when I got older, it was "software designer"... It was never "developer" ;)
<Begasus>
heh
<Begasus>
at FOSDEM I need to visit the KDE stand, they told me they had cookies (and ice-cream) :)
<MonniTheCat>
How many nowadays call themselves "software engineer" just to avoid using word "developer"...
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<MonniTheCat>
ice-cream is just fancy way of saying thermal paste... We used real ice cream to cool down old AMD CPUs...
<Begasus>
:P
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<MonniTheCat>
bbl... dinner time ;)
<Begasus>
enjoy :)
<OscarL>
grrr, forgot to mkdir the OUTPUT_DIRECTORY for the 64 bits install :-) (I should do a small PR for that on HaikuPorter at some point)
<OscarL>
"repopulating the repository ..." /me takes a nap.
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<OscarL>
damn, 64 bit was way faster :-)
<OscarL>
in parts due to "hp -l | wc -l" giving: 3428 instead of 6850 :-)
<OscarL>
"hp -G 3dmov"... it skipped the download, nice!
<Begasus>
progress! :)
<OscarL>
indeed. one repo for both 32 and 64 bits, only one download for both... this is the needed config: https://bpa.st/4WQUI
<OscarL>
forgot to change the /Data1/ to /Data/ on that paste :-D
<Begasus>
you need to (un)comment on needed arch then?
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<OscarL>
for primary, it gets autodetected (according to haikuports.sample.conf).
<Begasus>
doggies ....
<OscarL>
if you want secondary, you need to explicitly specify it.
<OscarL>
Using "TARGET_ARCHITECTURE=x86_64" doesn't hurts, anyway.
<OscarL>
PACKAGES_PATH and REPOSITORY_PATH not strictly needed, but adding the "." place them at the top in Tracker's listview, and allows using TrackerSearch's "skip folders starting with a dot".
<Begasus>
need to check this on a dual install at one point :)
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<Begasus>
in export $PATHS there is no mention of headers/include paths?
<Begasus>
for ~/config/non-packaged
<OscarL>
where you get that "export $PATHS" ?
<Begasus[m]>
just in Terminal
<OscarL>
"echo $PATHS" ends up empty on this new beta5 install.
<Monni>
Same output with just "export" ... undefined environment variable is ignored when using export
<Monni>
there is no INCLUDE_PATH as it is hardcoded in preprocessor...
<Begasus[m]>
hmm thinking of others I checked, think I used export PKGCONFIG_PATH(?) or the likes for that
<Monni>
$ expands variable contents instead of declaring it...
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<Begasus[m]>
yeah, same with $LIBRARY_PATH used in some recipes
<Monni>
In most cases environment variables are unnecessary, unless something is overridden.... The hardcoded defaults are usually good for normal use
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<Monni>
Sometimes they are used, so people don't need to get what command to use to get the result in different operating systems..
<matthewcroughan>
On the latest nightly of Haiku, it couldn't restart via the installer when hitting the restart button, and the GPU is broken
<matthewcroughan>
Where the Haiku logo and boot process is supposed to be, I get really funky GPU artifacts all over the screen, but now actually it has progressed past that into the desktop
<matthewcroughan>
But no working wifi
<matthewcroughan>
this is on hrev58291
<Monni>
still using 58288 here...
<Monni>
GPU artifacts are pretty normal with nightlies... I had to install to hard disk before they disappeared...
<Monni>
Usually I get just the bottom half of the boot screen...
<matthewcroughan>
My wifi shows up in listdev as "PRO/Wireless 2200G [Calexico2]", and the kernel log in /boot/system/var/log/syslog simply states "could not load firmware" without any other errors
<matthewcroughan>
This is true on Beta4, Beta5 and hrev58291 which I have installed fresh on this machine.
<matthewcroughan>
Do I need to go back a lot further to get WiFi working?
<Monni>
I had no WiFi in beta 4 either...
<matthewcroughan>
How do you download previous Betas?
<Monni>
get the download link and change the version number... some mirrors still have old versions...
<matthewcroughan>
I found it via google, doesn't seem reachable just via the front page
<Monni>
Older versions might also have bugs that are fixed in newer versions, so it makes sense to hide the download link, so people don't complain about bugs that are already fixed...
<matthewcroughan>
For the breakages, how much testing to the devs actually do?
<Monni>
None...
<matthewcroughan>
It seems like stuff ends up breaking, and remaining broken for long periods of time on Haiku
<matthewcroughan>
So it seems like a statement made a few days ago is a bit inconsistent with reality then, in my opinion.
<matthewcroughan>
Which is that the end-user should never recompile software.
<Monni>
Betas are not supposed to be 100% bug free...
<matthewcroughan>
Making that easier would be helpful in allowing end-users to be more productive when they experience issues with the software.
<matthewcroughan>
I didn't suggest that they should be bug free. Just that compiling everything from source should be easy, so that users can contribute fixes.
<zard>
Haikuporter takes a single command to compile from source
<Monni>
I don't try to use every possible hrev... I make ISOs when there is interesting fixes or if I want to test if something works better.... If things work, I copy the packages to my daily installation...
<matthewcroughan>
zard: Okay, I will read about this.
<matthewcroughan>
Is that on Linux also?
<zard>
Then you just have to install the resulting package
<zard>
No. Oh, wait, the AUR is similar. It makes the package then you have to install
<matthewcroughan>
When you say compile from source, do you mean the entire OS and not just individual packages?
<zard>
Ah... no, just individual packages
<zard>
For the OS, the process looks like the usual (clone source and build)
<Monni>
Most BSD build packages from sources by default rather than try to download binary packages...
<matthewcroughan>
And for me to make a change that is necessary to fix this WiFi, I would need to bisect and rebuild the OS, and "kernel modules" for example.
<zard>
Hmm, I wonder if there is a haikuporter package for Haiku /me checks
<matthewcroughan>
You know me, I'm a Nix person, this is normal for me. I'm trying to grok how to do this in Haiku.
<Monni>
zard: try "system" repository for anything related to base operating system...
<matthewcroughan>
I would like to use Haiku a lot, but for me, in order to make it usable, I need something like Nix that allows me to rebuild the OS, in order to avoid, debug or fix bugs at will
<matthewcroughan>
E.g in NixOS if there were an issue with the wifi I would just change the kernel revision and rebuild, therefore avoiding the issue whilst not also incidentally downgrading all of my package
<matthewcroughan>
all of my packages*
<zard>
Monni: Where is the system repository?
<Monni>
zard: For me it was enabled by default...
<zard>
On haiku, I think that would look like building haiku.hpkg and installing it
<zard>
lemme see what is in haiku.hpkg
<Monni>
URL of the different default repositories are mentioned in the upgrade guide (from beta4 to beta5)
<zard>
Ok, so haiku.hpkg has the kernel and file system drivers and the like, so that might be it
<matthewcroughan>
I'm back on Beta3, I'll keep going back until WiFi works, then I can at least bisect
<zard>
So, let me see how haiku.hpkg is built
<zard>
Monni: I see the Haiku repo you were referencing in pkgman
<matthewcroughan>
Still broken in Beta3... hmm
<zard>
re having tests for Haiku to prevent regressions... we're too lazy :P
<Monni>
Makes me wonder how many of the developers actually use WiFI in Haiku...
<zard>
They do, I believe
<Monni>
They basically test things on their own hardware only.... So something might break on different hardware...
<zard>
It's just, if it's broken, they'll get a usb wifi adaptor (forget what it's called) to use with Haiku instead of their system's card
<matthewcroughan>
You can be lazy if you want, if I'm successful in porting Nix over, then I will do that
<zard>
Writing tests? Cool :D
<matthewcroughan>
I've tried various wifi adapters, it didn't look like you have any drivers for those
<matthewcroughan>
at least the syslog suggested that it saw the USB device, but nothing happened
<Monni>
For many revisions, I couldn't even boot Haiku... it crashed inside bootloader...
<zard>
There are lists on the forums for which ones are known to work
<zard>
It is known that a lot of WiFi cards fail
<zard>
So people compile lists of the ones that work
<matthewcroughan>
I'd like to get it working again, as it looks like everything else works
<matthewcroughan>
Maybe someone could hand hold me through the debugging process in order to teach me how that works
<Monni>
A lot of network adapters just use driver from FreeBSD...
<matthewcroughan>
Monni: That's cool, so maybe they made some update that wasn't applied in Haiku, which is why it broke
<matthewcroughan>
There's at least a chance that this is an easy fix
<zard>
waddlesplash knows more about that topic than I do
* zard
has never really worked on the kernel or drivers
<matthewcroughan>
Or perhaps BSD made some change and the change was consumed by Haiku when it shouldn't have been
<matthewcroughan>
Either case is possible
<Monni>
It was 16 years pause for me for working on drivers....
<zard>
Wow! You've been around a long time!
<Monni>
I started with testing the bluetooth driver in Haiku...
<zard>
matthewcroughan: You imply that your WiFi card worked in the past. How did you find that out?
<zard>
Aye, there's the person who knows the answer :D
<zard>
Hello OscarL !
<OscarL>
Hi there zard :-)
<zard>
Looks like you can compile haiku.hpkg from Haiku's source tree using "jam -j$(nproc) haiku.hpkg"
<matthewcroughan>
zard: I do not know if it worked in the past, I only know that there is a driver for it in Haiku and that the only error we get is "Could not upload firmware" from the syslog
<matthewcroughan>
Let's say it's something dumb.. you know when you hit the hardware disable key for wifi in Linux? And you hit it again, and you rfkill unclock foo? How can I do that same workflow in Haiku? To debug if the issue is a soft/hard block?
* zard
has no idea
<matthewcroughan>
Just gonna keep going back until it worked, then I can do a git bisect
<matthewcroughan>
Beta 2 now :D
<OscarL>
no rfkill equivalent, as far as I know.
<zard>
Hmm, it could be that the driver never worked if the driver was taken from BSD
<matthewcroughan>
Does the Haiku installer "Try Haiku" run the same Haiku as the target installation?
<matthewcroughan>
I.e the Haiku installer is the same kernel as it is installing?
<zard>
But trying Beta 2 sounds like a good way of finding out :)
<OscarL>
matthewcroughan: it does if you're running the Installer app from the same media you booted from.
<zard>
I think so? At least, I never heard of it using a different kernel that what it was installing
<matthewcroughan>
Good, in that case I don't have to install just to find out if WiFI works? I can just try the installer iso's "Boot to Desktop" or "Try Haiku" option?
<matthewcroughan>
Might I add that Beta2 installs 3 to 4 times faster than the current latest stuff?
<zard>
Yeah, probably.
<zard>
It is? Oh dear.
<matthewcroughan>
At least on this old HP Compaq NC6120
<zard>
Haiku needs a good bit of profiling, I bet
<zard>
btw, on the topic of tests, there are some small amount of tests written
<matthewcroughan>
I think that comes for free with CI, at least the CI jobs time to complete will give you a good enough indicator
<OscarL>
a driver for X chipset might work fine with some cards and just not work at all with other cards, even if they use the same chipset.
<matthewcroughan>
Real profiling is probably not necessary unless you're trying to compete with something
<OscarL>
not sure going back in time will change things much, unless you know for sure it worked in the past for you.
<zard>
Ah, you mean install time, not system performance
<matthewcroughan>
Yeah just install time
<zard>
Ah well, Haiku has grown a lot over the years, I think
<matthewcroughan>
On Beta2, I don't see any indicator that there is any network interface working, including Ethernet
<matthewcroughan>
Is it the "Deskbar"? With the leaf and the time? That only has a thing called "Network Status" and it is not possible to interact with it.
<zard>
Yeah, that's the Deskbar
<matthewcroughan>
Yeah also again "Could not load firmware"
<OscarL>
matthewcroughan: tried "install-wifi-firmwares.sh" yet? seems its needed for that card/chipset?
<OscarL>
usually people run that script when their WiFi doesn't works, even if that script has nothing to do with their hardware. This might be one of the exceptions :-)
<matthewcroughan>
How do you fix that at the OS level then?
<OscarL>
AFAIK, the firmware file for some chipsets cannot be included/distributed with the isos, due to licensing. Thus the "install-wifi-firmware.sh" that it is already provided on Haiku.
<matthewcroughan>
That's another thing that reproducibility can solve. If the user is easily able to compile everything from source, they can build their own ISO with all of that stuff in, without violating any licensing. Something we do in Nix quite a lot.
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<OscarL>
It should be in: /boot/system/bin/install-wifi-firmwares.sh
<matthewcroughan>
Yeah it's there, I will try it on Beta5 now
<OscarL>
make sure to reboot after installing.
* OscarL
crosses fingers for matthewcroughan.
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<OscarL>
you might have luck sending him a PM via the forums, matthewcroughan.
<matthewcroughan>
thanks
<matthewcroughan>
OscarL: It looks lik eit is not possible to use the "install-wifi-firmware.sh" without first having an internet connection. Of course, derp
<OscarL>
:-) sneaker-net might be an option... or was at some point, IIRC. But you mentioned pluging in ethernet, so, that should simplify things a bit :-D
<matthewcroughan>
I made a discourse account, but it does not appear as if DMing people is possible
<OscarL>
I have received PM/DMs before. Maybe is a spam-prevention thing if your account is just too fresh.
<matthewcroughan>
install-wifi-firmware.sh doesn't work on this machine because it has not yet time sync'd and believes it's 1980, so all of the certs fail. How can I force Haiku to time sync?
<zard>
Yeah, you probably have to increase your trust level above new user
<OscarL>
Deskbar->Preferences->Time
<OscarL>
"Network time" tab.
<OscarL>
Should see a "synchronize" button at the bottom.
<matthewcroughan>
Ah... not familiar with this ifconfig
<OscarL>
is your wifi band and encryption supported by that old card?
<matthewcroughan>
hard to say really, hehe
<matthewcroughan>
One thing that seems very wrong is that when I ping 1.1 it says "Temporary failure in name resolution"
<OscarL>
some drivers use wpa_supplicant, others do their own thing (usually to worse results).
<matthewcroughan>
in fact when I ping any IP, this happens, why is DNS resolution getting involved?
<OscarL>
I have a idualwifi7260 that only works when it feels like it. 99% of the time... doesn't even connects. And one day out of 200, works just fine :-(
<matthewcroughan>
One thing I can tell you is that this card works on Linux with the same SSID
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<matthewcroughan>
With or without encryption, the SSID for my APs doesn't even show up as discoverable, only a single neigbour's
<OscarL>
our (current) network drivers come mostly from FreeBSD/OpenBSD with some compat-layers. Might be just incomplete drivers, or a Haiku bug. Hard to tell.
<matthewcroughan>
Upon reboot, no SSID at all is visible.. how do I get a scan to occur?
<OscarL>
AFAIK, should happen periodically. ifconfig seems to have a "scan" command you could try.
<matthewcroughan>
yeah.. doesn't do anything, returns empty
<matthewcroughan>
will try another reboot
<matthewcroughan>
Odd, same again, empty
<matthewcroughan>
Though it managed to find one SSID once upon the first reboot after install-wifi-firmware.sh it is not able to find them anymore.
<OscarL>
I usually get far lower signal on Haiku than on Win/Lin for the same WiFi cards.
<OscarL>
I have far better luck with ethernet. Or with usb_rndis / usb_ecm (USB-tethering from phone/tablet).
<MonniTheCat>
I got so low signal with WiFi that downloading anything was hit and miss... It was a lot easier to just get a long cable and connect to the router directly...
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<DigitalBox98>
Welcome:)
* DigitalBox98
is idle: BRB
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* DigitalBox98
has returned
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<matthewcroughan>
I would be interested in fixing the WiFi situation on this machine, but would need someone who's hacked on that stuff to give some pointers
<matthewcroughan>
Ah damn, you guys actually need git as part of the build process for Haiku?
<matthewcroughan>
I cloned Haiku, but can't compile it without git being present as part of the build, which seems like a mistake?
<matthewcroughan>
And then it wants to use git metadata as part of the build, damn
<zard>
Yeah, idk why it wants git. But make sure that you clone from git.haiku-os.org and not from github
<matthewcroughan>
Git metadata cannot be deterministically fetched, since upstream changes such as pushing a branch cause the .git/index to be mutated
<noobish>
But again, installing from BetaR5 won't start up even if it does install, though starting up does work from the most recent nightly build
<matthewcroughan>
So in my case, I'm building a system image in Nix, which fetches the git repo, and then rm -rf .git in order to make it so we can reproducibly and deterministically fetch the contents
<matthewcroughan>
It's a known issue in Git, which is why making build systems depend on git metadata is not advised
<matthewcroughan>
Plenty of projects do it though
<zard>
Haiku may be depending on the tags for the build
<zard>
Why? No idea.
<matthewcroughan>
Is there perhaps a way to turn off the dependency on Git itself when building Haiku?
<matthewcroughan>
Yeah, it's an anti-pattern I see a lot, it's understandable why this is desirable
<zard>
Erm, what's the error?
<OscarL>
noobish: you should attach those files to a ticket over https://dev.haiku-os.org (don't just link to them on the ticket, as those pastebins perish)
<matthewcroughan>
Well, let's say I fake the git repo by git init git add . git commit -m "init", the next error is that I need to have ~/.gitconfig. Which is of course an unfortunate side-effect of making git a dependency of the build process.
<matthewcroughan>
So then I need to spoof that also
<OscarL>
noobish: that way the info will stay there on the system Haiku uses to keep track of bugs.
<zard>
I know the build system likes to download some files to help it build
<noobish>
sorry for interruptin/talking over you, zard and matthewcroughan
<zard>
No problem :)
<bbjimmy>
pkgman update problem.... Refreshing repository "Haiku" failedValidating checksum for Haiku...: Bad data
<zard>
Running the build system here, I see it downloading zstd_source-1.5.6-1-source.hpkg
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<zard>
Perhaps it downloads these because in the early days Haiku used svn and submodules weren't available then? idk
<cocobean>
Begasus - Howdy... would you have cbindgen for x86 handy?
<zard>
(ham is incomplete and never really got adopted)
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<OscarL>
^(on the topic of missing tags)
<matthewcroughan>
OscarL: It seems it will still require git as a dependency of the build, even if the Haiku revision is set, meaning it wouldn't need Git.
<matthewcroughan>
So the build will still fail if git isn't on the path
<matthewcroughan>
Yes, I've used Git to clone it. I shouldn't need Git to build it :P
<matthewcroughan>
Well anyway, I've spoofed the Git repo so that the build system is happy, though the next step is to compile the Jam fork
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<matthewcroughan>
What is the reason I can't use the upstream Jam btw? Is it really so different?
<OscarL>
if you cloned it with git... what's there to spoof? No idea what you're doing really. Anyway... time to hit the bed for me :-)
<OscarL>
See you later folks.
<OscarL>
have a good one.
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<zard>
We have certain extensions to jam
<matthewcroughan>
Yes. In Nix (The system I'm using to perform the build so I can share it with others), you cannot fetch things from the internet unless they are deterministic. Git metadata is not possible to fetch deterministically, which is an upstream problem with Git, well known and understood by many projects.
<matthewcroughan>
Because for example if someone pushes a branch in Haiku's git repo, that will impact the contents of .git/index
<matthewcroughan>
And it's not possible with Git to prune things such that you only get the content on disk that you wanted to fetch
<zard>
I think jamfiles being able to see which cli arguments were passed to the jam command line is one extension
<matthewcroughan>
So what we do in Nix in order to make the disk contents deterministic is rm -rf .git, because that is one way of guaranteeing determinism. There are more complex pruning approaches that have so far not proven to work very well. Which is why it's preferable to not use Git at all, given that all it is doing is setting a string.
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<matthewcroughan>
Ah interesting, so on ARM u-boot actually is used
<matthewcroughan>
So is it U-Boot -> Haiku Boot -> Kernel? Or is it just U-Boot -> Kernel
* zard
doesn't know
<MonniTheCat>
whatever boots Haiku has to understand packagefs, otherwise it can't load kernel...
<matthewcroughan>
Upstream jam is on 2.6.1, but I'm not able to simply rebase Haiku's jam on that version, am I?
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<zard>
No idea. You know that Haiku's jam lives in the build tools repository along with other build tools for Haiku, right?
<zard>
Could make a rebasing attempt harder
<matthewcroughan>
I do. But that is a bad approach known as "vendoring" usually.
<matthewcroughan>
And if I can build this the right way, I'm going to try that first.
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<zard>
I don't think Perforce jam is maintained anymore, so there have been several forks over the year
<zard>
I spotted a fork in Boost for C++ relatively recently, for example
<matthewcroughan>
I think it is surprisingly. especially in Nixpkgs
<zard>
But, from Wikipedia "The company announced that version 2.6 released in August 2014 was the last Perforce Jam release"
<matthewcroughan>
jam 2.5.1 -> 2.6 updated the src from perforce to a new perforce link
<MonniTheCat>
AFAIK Perforce jam had some limitations that had to be fixed before jam could build Haiku correctly... I suspect other forks might have similar workarounds/patches to support building that specific project...
<matthewcroughan>
Yeah interesting.. Should the build process for haiku-jam be the same as perforce-jam?
<matthewcroughan>
i.e if I have a script that builds perforce-jam, I should be able to simply drop in the haiku-jam sources and it'll build the same? Or is the fork more diverged than that?
<zard>
I think it would work? Only one way to find out ;)
<matthewcroughan>
Yeah :D
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<matthewcroughan>
Ouch that buildtools repo is a big one
<matthewcroughan>
That's the problem with vendoring
<zard>
I wonder if gcc would accept our patches that are OS specific?
<matthewcroughan>
They really should, but I know they're terrible
<Anarchos>
i got checksum error while doing "pkgman update"
<matthewcroughan>
git clone --depth=1 doesn't change the fact that you cannot fetch contents from a git repository deterministically on-disk.
<matthewcroughan>
If someone pushes a branch upstream for example, that effects the contents you fetch, even if you have --depth=1, it is not pruned.
<matthewcroughan>
Plenty of research has been done in that area, and there is no general solution. You cannot fetch the contents of a git repo without side effects like that.
<nephele>
that does make sense though, git is supposed to give you a consitent view of the files of the project, not a consistent .git folder :)
<matthewcroughan>
Most build systems allow you to build without git, for the reproducible build use-case.
<matthewcroughan>
Yes, you have to trust git, a 30MiB executable which adds a dependency on ~/.gitconfig and a bunch of other factors, which a lot of reproducible build systems have a tough time doing since they want to themselves verify the contents.
<nephele>
You can have consitent exports out of git, no? basically what the "download zip from tagged release" functionality does
<matthewcroughan>
Not as far as I am aware, no. If that were possible it'd be of great interest to me, since it would solve the problem.
<matthewcroughan>
I'm pretty sure the git exports do not pack/unpack deterministically.
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<nephele>
how so? I doubt they include .gitignote or .git at all?
<matthewcroughan>
The goal is to fetch the git repo and retain the .git metadata that Haiku depends upon, without accidentally observing side effects like someone pushing a branch upstream causing the disk contents to change day-to-day.
<matthewcroughan>
Which afaik is not possible, which means reproducible build systems can't fetch it, since they don't allow inputs to change on-disk (since they check the hashes).
<matthewcroughan>
Well, rather they can fetch it, but have to remove the source of non-determinism, which is .git
<phschafft>
and how does that change what nephele said?
<matthewcroughan>
Hence why most build systems offer a --no-source-control or --without-git or similar flag, to disable all the Git related functionality, for the reproducible build use-case.
<nephele>
ah, the git mitadata haiku depends on is IIRC *only* the newest hrev tag
<Anarchos>
matthewcroughan the depth option was not to get determinstatically, but just that you complained the repo was big...
<nephele>
and you can give this tag in another way, without git
<matthewcroughan>
Anarchos: A --depth=1 checkout of buildtools is still big due to the vendoring approach
<matthewcroughan>
Sorry for matrix reply, habit
<matthewcroughan>
A --depth=1 checkout of buildtools is still 245.19MiB which I consider quite large
<matthewcroughan>
nephele: yes you can, such as by patching the Jamfile, but there is no way to prevent the Jamfile from requiring git when it performs the build is there?
<nephele>
Sure there is. Just check the error it gives you when cloning without tags
<matthewcroughan>
The error it gives me is that it needs ~/.gitconfig around, because it tries to execute git.
<nephele>
i think it's an env var or a file or something, but i never use this so can't be more specific
<nephele>
for haiku or for buildtools?
<matthewcroughan>
haiku
<nephele>
well, we don't use ~/.gitconfig at all. Is that really from Jam? all our config is in ~/config/settings
<noobish>
I'm off for a bit but will be back before tooooooo toooooooooooooooo long
<nephele>
but besides that, if it depends on the git executable beeing installed, and otherwise fails we should be able to fix that
<Monni>
HAIKU_REVISION
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<matthewcroughan>
Yeah, I believe that is the case (though could be wrong) and that's what I'd like to fix. Though not immediately, I can spoof the metadata for the time being.
<noobish>
Also can't seem to get anything workin on dooble but that's a different matter I suppose
<nephele>
Personally I'm more of the do it slow but right peeps and would fix it ;)
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<noobish>
bye for now y'all
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<Anarchos>
my compilation chokes on 'zstd.h unfound' :/
<matthewcroughan>
Following the build instructions on linux causes the jam build process to fail with `> ar: bin.linuxx86/libjam.a: No such file or directory`
<matthewcroughan>
Ah it's because AR was set to something it should not have been
<matthewcroughan>
How do you guys handle change requests? Is it similar to LInux with the git send-mail thing? I'm very bad at that
<MonniTheCat>
I never update my nightly installations, just reinstall... If I try to "update", it ends up downgrading some packages to older versions...
<Begasus[m]>
there is "pkgman up" for that Mika Lindqvist
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 30be30f25de2 - Application: do not delete port owned by app_server
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<JulesEnriquez[m]>
Hmm, deleting the downloaded packages didn't work.
<matthewcroughan>
nephele: I took it to mean that I'm an x86_64 host, and wanting to build x86_64 haiku, is that not what it means?
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<JulesEnriquez[m]>
waddlesplash and kallisti5, checksums are failing here. Maybe the CDN needs a look?
<nephele>
haiku has it's own ELF format. gcc for linux won't produce haiku compatible ELF files. Host tools are tools that run on the host, that is linux
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<waddlesplash>
JulesEnriquez[m]: I see that. Probably duplicate builds again
<nephele>
you need cross tools in addition to that that *can* run on haiku, and produce executables for haiku
<bbjimmy>
*** got '134365337dcd31822f81f1196be1ad150a2922024ae1e1d42dee3f54fa0f4780'Refreshing repository "Haiku" failedValidating checksum for Haiku...: Bad data
<bbjimmy>
100% repochecksum-1 [64 bytes]
<bbjimmy>
Nothing to do.
<nephele>
bbjimmy: please read the log atleast before spamming 10 lines ;)
<matthewcroughan>
The modern 32 bit Haiku ISO is using gcc2?
<JulesEnriquez[m]>
Hybrid, yes.
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<matthewcroughan>
What does hybrid mean though?
<waddlesplash>
the kernel and drivers are always built with modern GCC (13)
<nephele>
yes, it's using *both*. gcc2 is used for abi boundaries that are compatible with BeOS, the rest of the system uses gcc13
<MonniTheCat>
Treating warnings as errors in old code is usually a bad idea...
<matthewcroughan>
Will apply the necessary -Wno-error options, but seems interesting nontheless
<matthewcroughan>
Ah crap, hardcoded paths in the binutils configure haiku> /nix/store/h82cgqzqgb0fwira0gd3s7a9n4yjxawj-source/legacy/binutils/ld/configure: line 3939: /usr/bin/file: No such file or directory
<MonniTheCat>
omitting "%s" was allowed a long time ago...
<nephele>
don't you have a /usr/bin folder?
<matthewcroughan>
Of course not, that's not how Nix works :P
<nephele>
Okay... last I checked it had compar dirs for all that stuff, but that is a long time ago
<matthewcroughan>
Nix works by reproducing all required paths, leaving nothing undescribed, everything is bootstrapped from source if you need it, like Gentoo. Except we have caching, so if someone else has built it, we don't have to (since it's reproducible)
<nephele>
seems like you need to declare /usr/bin/file then *shrug*
<matthewcroughan>
So /usr/bin we would call an "impurity" since it is not described how to build /usr/bin/file from source. I do have file on the $PATH, but sadly the binutils sources aren't looking at the $PATH, they have a hardcoded dependency on the FHS and well-known kpaths.
<Anarchos>
Begasus of course
<MonniTheCat>
or patch the configure script to use correct path ;)
<Anarchos>
JulesEnriquez[m] yes
<matthewcroughan>
Yeah, we already do this in NixOS, but since you guys are vendoring binutils into a big 230~MiB repo, it's less than trivial to pop our patched one in
<JulesEnriquez[m]>
UH, yes to what?
<nephele>
seems unlikely. Haiku doesn't have a /usr either. You must be hitting some linux specific codepath
<JulesEnriquez[m]>
Uh, yes to what?
<matthewcroughan>
Yeah it's probably because of the fact I'm on a Linux host trying to compile to Haiku, though I have gotten quite far following the Haiku docs
<matthewcroughan>
--cross-tools-source is pointing to the buildtools and this I'm configuring it just like described here
<matthewcroughan>
It compiles a lot of stuff before failing here
<nephele>
Well, kinda. If you want to talk deps the site is listing which linux distros are supported and tested ;)
<Begasus[m]>
getting crowded on requests, will leavy you guys fidling with this here :)
<matthewcroughan>
In fact, that missing path isn't causing an issue, it doesn't exit because of that. It exits because it wants the source code path to be mutable
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<matthewcroughan>
touch: cannot touch 'c-parse.c': Permission denied is what causes the build to fail, because it wants the buildtools path to be read-write
<Begasus[m]>
KENZ around?
<nephele>
and for a linux target /usr/bin beeing available is not unreasonable, seeing as there isn't an equivalent to the find dirs api haiku has..
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<matthewcroughan>
We can't use /usr/bin, since everything in Nix is a purely reproduced path to the /nix/store, so it's something that has to be considered.
<matthewcroughan>
So we usually just patch those references
<matthewcroughan>
But the vendoring approach of bundling everything into a big 230~MiB git repo causes some friction in the patching process, and makes figuring out patches a bit time consuming
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* nephele
afk for a bit
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<Anarchos>
Begasus[m] even if i delete my 'generated' folder, it still fails on src/kits/support/ZstdCompressionAlgorithm.cpp:17:12: fatal error: zstd.h: No such file or directory
<Anarchos>
Begasus[m] maybe because my arch is 'x86_gcc2' ? Maybe i should set arch to 'x86'
<Begasus>
Anarchos, oscarl already mentione the CC=gcc-x86 iirc?
<Begasus>
+d
<Anarchos>
Begasus yes but i did a giit pull and i got htis line
<Begasus>
pasted my script here sometime this week that is also using it (32bit not up and running now)
<jmairboeck>
Anarchos: I think you need zstd_x86_devel
<jmairboeck>
zstd_devel is for gcc2
<Begasus>
that should be obvious when building on 32bit? :)
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<Anarchos>
jmairboeck i got zstd_x86_devel too
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<matthewcroughan>
Ouch this is going to be hell on earth to figure out..
<matthewcroughan>
So after 40-50 minutes of compiling, Haiku's build system decides to fetch data from the internet, instead of building it from source. How can I coerce it into performing a build from source instead of downloading precompiled packages?
<Anarchos>
anyway, gcc13 is really faster than gcc 2.95 !
<augiedoggie_>
you'd probably have to cross-compile gcc from the haikuports.cross repository
<augiedoggie_>
even then the version/revision numbers might not match up
<matthewcroughan>
Is that a response to me?
<augiedoggie_>
yes
<Anarchos>
augiedoggie_ i was unsuccessful to cross compile
<zard>
re
<matthewcroughan>
Once I do cross-compile it though, how do I tell Haiku to use this instead of downloading from the internet?
<matthewcroughan>
I want to tell Jam "Don't ever use the internet, simply fail"
<augiedoggie_>
if it's the same version/revision you should be able to just store it in the generated/downloads directory, otherwise you'll probably have to modify one of the Jamfiles
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<augiedoggie_>
i've never played with the cross-compiler so i don't know how difficult it is to build packages with it
<matthewcroughan>
okay that's a good tip
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<Begasus>
long day(s) here, closing down
<Begasus>
cu peeps!
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<nephele>
anyone here build a USB (client) device on their own? :)
<waddlesplash>
matthewcroughan: if you don't want to use the internet at all, you must do a bootstrap build. this is significantly more involved
<waddlesplash>
see jam options for bootstrapping
<waddlesplash>
in this case you need to download HaikuPorter and haikuports cross repositories as well
<waddlesplash>
and even then if you really want to download *nothing* you must preload all source archives that it would download to build the base packages (ICU, bash, coreutils, etc.)
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<waddlesplash>
this then generates a "bootstrap" image, which does work more-or-less like regular Haiku but really is built only as an intermediate target to build the "real" package set within it
<waddlesplash>
that last step unfortunately is not yet automated, because we don't do bootstrap builds very often
<Anarchos>
who was successful to build a nightly x86hybrid ?
<zard>
Hooray, waddlesplash the knowledgeable is here! :P
<waddlesplash>
I did a bootstrap build not too long ago and it worked (with some small hacks)
<waddlesplash>
so this is still possible, but it is a lot more involved
<waddlesplash>
zard: :)
<matthewcroughan>
I would like to do a bootstrap build in order to make a Nix expression that anybody can run that will perform the bootstrap build
<matthewcroughan>
So that it is not more involved for anyone who wants to do it
<waddlesplash>
I wouldn't really recommend this. you'll have to change the Nix expression every time we bump a package revision
<waddlesplash>
and the bootstrap build really needs an overhaul to be more automated on our end anyway
<matthewcroughan>
Why would I have to change the Nix expression? If you're referring to the source code (input sources) then that is just a version bump in Nix, the same as any other package
<waddlesplash>
there will be dozens of source archvies
<waddlesplash>
one for each package
<waddlesplash>
and haikuporter does its own unpacking of the sources
<waddlesplash>
and needs mutable directories when it does
<matthewcroughan>
Do you have a machine-readable list or dictionary of these somewhere?
<waddlesplash>
haikuports/haikuports.cross repository on GitHub has the cross-built ones, but the haikuports repository has the "real" ones that are built from within Haiku after you have a bootstrap build
<waddlesplash>
the cross repository is smaller (dozens of packages at most), the full repository is obviously our whole ports tree with thousands of packages
<waddlesplash>
it is not really reasonable to shoehorn this into some other system
<matthewcroughan>
Well okay, I'll chip away at it and show you how it can be made possible
<matthewcroughan>
Might be a bit much for one night, but not unreasonable IMO
<waddlesplash>
I didn't say it's impossible
<waddlesplash>
I said it's unreasonable
* Anarchos
wonders how to build this damn haiku_loader.pxe_ia32 : all configure options failed
<waddlesplash>
matthewcroughan: lol, doing a bootstrap build requires a whole night and a lot of patience by itself within our existing infrastructure
<waddlesplash>
adding extra constraints on top of that, good luck, it'll just be a tangled mess of dependencies
<waddlesplash>
we should make bootstrap builds easier by getting rid of ICU in the bootstrap set
<matthewcroughan>
Yeah, that is kind of the problem space that Nix solves though, so I'll have some fun with it
<waddlesplash>
except Nix is designed for and runs on Linux
<waddlesplash>
Haiku is not Linux and almost certainly lacks a lot of the things Nix expects
<waddlesplash>
or just does them differently
<matthewcroughan>
E.g nixpkgs can cross compile 80,000 packages to-from bsd/linux no problem, haiku is just one more target
<matthewcroughan>
Nix is not for Linux.
<waddlesplash>
those packages were already patched for BSD and Linux
<waddlesplash>
it's only in the past few years that upstreams have started getting more accepting of having Haiku patches upstream
<waddlesplash>
but many still don't, so you need the patches at HaikuPorts for things to even compile much less work, pretty often
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<matthewcroughan>
What's a good program that accepted haiku patches upstream?
<nephele>
I think BSD and Linux are a lot closer than linux and Haiku
<nephele>
matthewcroughan: SDL2 for example has an implementation for haiku intree
<matthewcroughan>
Oh nice, really nice
<nephele>
but that is it's reason for existing too ;)
<waddlesplash>
nephele: yeah, that's also true
<waddlesplash>
HaikuPorter already builds packages in a chroot
<waddlesplash>
with only the packages active that are declared as dependencies
<waddlesplash>
and it has a /package-links/ hierarchy by which you can access the contents of specific packages
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* Anarchos
mentions that ocaml, and interlisp/maiko accepted patches so you can use them out of tree without patch. That's why there is no package for them (sort of)
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Enough time has passed that it's the start of a new month, on Fri Nov 1 13:46:49 EDT 2024
<Anarchos>
waddlesplash i can't understand why i can't build a gcc2_hybrid anymore on a Haiku gcc2_hybrid installation :/
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<waddlesplash>
Anarchos: you can?
<waddlesplash>
I've done it recently, what's the problem?
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<Anarchos>
waddlesplash zstd.h ...
<waddlesplash>
install zstd_devel?
<waddlesplash>
or zstd_x86_devel I suppose
<Anarchos>
i have both !
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<Anarchos>
waddlesplash for example, it fails on failed DownloadLocatedFile1 generated/download/zstd_source-1.3.1-1-source.hpkg
<waddlesplash>
is this a gcc2hybrid or a gcc13 only build?
<waddlesplash>
the latter will not work
<waddlesplash>
on 32-bit Haiku, just run "./configure" with no arguments
<waddlesplash>
this should configure a hybrid build
<Anarchos>
i did and same kind of error but on a different version of zstd
<Anarchos>
i will do it and show you the log
<Anarchos>
waddlesplash so i do ".configure" on the "x86_gcc2" arch ?
<waddlesplash>
you don't specify any arguments to it
<waddlesplash>
when running on Haiku
<nipos>
Playing around with C++ makes me feel stupid today 😕 How do I pass (a pointer of) a BTextControl to another function in a way that calling SetText() on it doesn't result in a General Protection Fault?
<Skipp_OSX>
well if you must pass a pointer then you have to create the object first, typically you want to add it to the view first, then pass the address of into your function
<zard>
Are you using "variable = new BTextControl" or just "variable = BTextControl"
<Skipp_OSX>
Getting a general projection fault indicated that the pointer you are adding is not a valid BTextControl object.
<nipos>
I'm using variable = new BTextControl,then calling some -> functions on it directly and then passing it to the other function
<zard>
Can you send me the code?
<Skipp_OSX>
most likely you need to AddChild() first so that the BTextControl is connected to app_server
<Skipp_OSX>
or add the object to a layout if you're working with layouts
<nipos>
That's a good tip,thanks
<nipos>
Currently the AddChild is called below passing to the other function.I'll check if changing the order will work
<zard>
So, did you add a function call between "sizeEdit->SetDivider( 0 );" and "AddChild( sizeEdit );"?
<nipos>
It's about the GSlider that gets created in line 585 and the application crashes in the UpdateText() function on line 1318 when calling thang->SetText() or if I comment that out,it crashes on otherThang->SetFontAndColor which uses a BTextView in the same way
<nipos>
It's actually not something I added,but rather something that has always been there and worked with older versions of Haiku/BeOS or older compilers,but does not today.I mean,that code is extremely old and there were hundreds of warnings I could easily fix,but not this one.The only "solution" was to make that function do nothing,but that's nothing more than a temporary workaround.
<zard>
When does it crash? As soon as the window opens or when it closes?
<nipos>
When I try to open the settings window.
<nipos>
The debugger highlights the thang->SetText() call as reason for the crash
<Skipp_OSX>
You should be able to SetText() even if not connected to app_server I think.
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<Skipp_OSX>
does some resizing you might not benefit from but other than that should be ok
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<nipos>
Yeah,I already noticed moving the AddChild() call above passing it to new GSlider() doesn't change anything
<zard>
What happens if you run "LD_PRELOAD='libroot_debug.so' ./program"
* zard
wants to rule out memory corruption
<nipos>
My guess is that the BTextControl is passed in a way that doesn't allow for the UpdateText() function to change it in any way,but that may be complete nonsense also
<nipos>
Preloading libroot_debug.so doesn't seem to change anything.Where should I notice a difference?
<nephele>
libroot debug will help catch errors early, it doesn't have to do anything different
<nipos>
The result with it is exactly the same error message
<zard>
Ah, so probably no memory corruption. What is the function in the call stack that it fails on?
<zard>
i.e. what part of SetText causes it to crash?
<zard>
Aye, I'm glad your screenshot showed it with libroot_debug :)
<zard>
Otherwise it would give a plausible number instead
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<Skipp_OSX>
SetText() makes a copy so it's ok that you're initializing on the stack, that's not the problem.
<Skipp_OSX>
I wonder if stuffage is not NUL terminated maybe the sprintf failed?
<nipos>
I tried hardcoding to SetText( "100%" ) before with no difference in the result
<zard>
Umm, but it definitely cannot call 0xccccccccc->SetText
<Skipp_OSX>
I see so thang despite being checked for NULL is still uninitialized? What is thang?
<nipos>
thang is the BTextControl that gets passed to the new GSlider in line 585
<zard>
Is sizeEdit 0xcccccccc on line 585?
<nipos>
No,it's 0x9d99a75a00
<zard>
With malloc_debug?
<nipos>
With libroot_debug.so,yes
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<nipos>
In GSlider::GSlider things get weird I think
<Skipp_OSX>
I see one problem, on line 591 or thereabouts in the PrefsWindow constructor sizeEdit is getting added twice.
<Skipp_OSX>
sizeEdit is the BTextControl, it gets added to magSlider, magSlider gets added to the window, then sizeEdit is added again.
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<Skipp_OSX>
hmmm maybe not... nvm
<nipos>
It's nowhere shown in magSlider,it's only there to be able to change the value
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah I see that
<zard>
Is thang being set to 0xcccccccc on line 1311? Almost certainly not, but worth a shot
<zard>
GSlider isn't defined anywhere as a class!?
<Skipp_OSX>
I can see where sizeEdit is getting created in the ctor that looks right
<nipos>
That's the position I also noticed.When this function is running,th is 0x9d99a75a00 but thank is still 0xcccccccc
<nipos>
GSlider is defined as class in PrefsWindow.h
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<Skipp_OSX>
yeah I see the define
<nipos>
The header files are all in the Headers directory
<zard>
Ah, yeah, I see
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<zard>
So thang isn't to th on line 1311?
<nipos>
I'm not sure how can see that specific line
<nipos>
Ohhhhhh,I think I found it
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<nipos>
The SetValue(0) call *before* defining thang is probably the issue,let me check that
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<nipos>
That's it!
<nipos>
Thank you so much for the help,I got it fixed
<nipos>
Moving the thang = th and otherThang = oth definitions above anything else in GSlider::GSlider() fixed it
<zard>
Ah, I see! Haiku's API is slightly different than Be's
<nipos>
But quite similar still
<zard>
Might be worth a bug report?
<nipos>
I don't think so.It's just out-of-date and not really clean code
<zard>
Ah well. Good catch, though :)
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<nipos>
Not an issue in Haiku itself,that it doesn't allow calling a function before it has been defined.I mean,it was *really* hard to catch,but now that I understand it,it makes perfect sense why that had to happen.
<zard>
Well, SetValue doesn't *have* to immediately call updateText
<nipos>
Setting a value indicates that the text changed,so it makes sense that it does.
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<zard>
I wouldn't be surprised if BeOS waited until it was time to render to call it. Either way works, really, so I guess it depends on how important BeOS support is
<nipos>
You're right.For me personally it doesn't matter,I just fix the old code,but when it comes to binary compatibility and we don't have the sources,it might be an issue
<Anarchos>
waddlesplash from a fresh "generated" folder, with a configure without options : https://0x0.st/XGax.txt
<zard>
Bye all!
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<Skipp_OSX>
remember we're binary compatible, but not source compatible with BeOS
<Skipp_OSX>
I'm not sure if this represents a source incompatibility or not but even if it is, that's ok.
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<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX and even binary coompatible, but there are some corner cases where we are not (bfs being a notable discrepancy)
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<Skipp_OSX>
I have had that zstd.h error before
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<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX ah thanks, i don't feel alone :)
<Skipp_OSX>
Jamfile looks ok
<Skipp_OSX>
could you be missing a devel package perhaps?
<Skipp_OSX>
try installing pkgman install zstd_devel or zstd_x86_devel
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah we're not even that binary compatible when it comes to the details *shrug*
<Skipp_OSX>
I try, but it is quite tough to track some of these binary incompatibilities down when you try to run old BeOS software each one has its own set of challenges.
<Skipp_OSX>
Plus you gotta deal with internal resistance to any change for the sake of BeOS app compatibility is going to be viewed with skepticism for example https://review.haiku-os.org/c/haiku/+/5491
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX i already have those zstd devel packages
<Skipp_OSX>
darn... ok
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX i would prefer a R1 full BeOS compliant, and all improvement in R2 due to glass-elevator project :)
<Skipp_OSX>
Unfortunately there isn't much will for that left, BeOS apps pretty much abandoned at this point except paying lip-service. Worms Armageddon binary patch type stuff.
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX i know, but the goal to be 100%binary compatible helps to stay focus.
<Skipp_OSX>
If there was enough incentive for a quirks mode but there's not
<Skipp_OSX>
We're 99% compatible but the remaining 1% would take quite a bit of effort.
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX anyway my immediate goal is to get this damned hybrid compile with this zstd.h missing :/
<Anarchos>
waddlesplash i tried, but will try again
<Anarchos>
waddlesplash something is wrong with eu.hpkg.haiku-os.org ?
<waddlesplash>
I don't think so...
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<Anarchos>
waddlesplash i am on 'master e21c4321f6 Update translations from Pootle'
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<Anarchos>
and i do 'jam -j3 -q haiku-netboot-archive'
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<nephele>
when did logitech become so bad. They used to produce such great hardware, now it's hardly repairable and they want to start some subscription service nonsense
<Skipp_OSX>
I have a 32-bit Haiku install here, I could give it a shot
<Skipp_OSX>
building...
<Anarchos>
same error
<Skipp_OSX>
built for me here, Building archive haiku-netbook.tgz ...
<Skipp_OSX>
netboot excuse me
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<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX what is your head commit ?
<Skipp_OSX>
Application: do not delete port owned by app_server
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX it worked :/
<Skipp_OSX>
it... could... WORK
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<Anarchos>
ok i found why my driver is not loaded
<Anarchos>
it has no init_hardware hookup for the freebsd compat layer
<MonniTheCat>
Now you just need to add that ;)
<Anarchos>
MonniTheCat no. it is the difference between device_manager/legacy_driver style..
<MonniTheCat>
Anarchos: All drivers have to have one hook that initializes the hardware, otherwise it doesn't work at all...
<Anarchos>
MonniTheCat yes but the fucntion name, and the mechanism is not the same
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<MonniTheCat>
Anarchos: There is only two choices, either init_hardware or init_driver, if neither is present, the driver still gets added....
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