<OscarL>
Skipp_OSX: are you in charge of the ReleaseNotes wiki?
<Skipp_OSX>
I pushed the button but nobody assigned me...
<OscarL>
ok :-)
<Skipp_OSX>
is there a problem?
<OscarL>
Minor feedback:
<Skipp_OSX>
ok
<OscarL>
"persistent performance mode settings across reboots." is not related to PowerStatus, but ProcessController.
<OscarL>
On "RAMFS improvements"... what "clearing of trailing spaces* implies? if it's on source code... doesn't seems like something that should make it into release notes.
<OscarL>
"Updated to FFmpeg 6 for better multimedia support." <<< does that really belongs to "BeOS compatibility"?
<Skipp_OSX>
probably not
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<OscarL>
I'd probably merge the two places where the new TUN/TAP driver is mentioned.
<OscarL>
..and that is all
<OscarL>
:-)
<Skipp_OSX>
ok done
<OscarL>
jhj: those zlib-ng having so clear notes about build options right on the Reademe makes me weep of joy (compared to whe flusterclucks I've touched lately) :-D
<OscarL>
s/whe/the/
<OscarL>
Thanks John.
<coolcoder613_beos>
For some reason BeOS is replacing backslash with the Yen symbol?
<OscarL>
virtio-net misbehavin on VirtualBox (latest beta5: hrev57937+80). syslog heelps showing DHCP related messages (request/discovery/timeouts)
<OscarL>
was using virtio-net just fine in latest beta4.
<OscarL>
tried disablign virtio from Network preflet... DHCP message continue... (with a "KERN: virtio_net: aquire_sem(rxDone) Failed (Bad semaphore ID)" in there)
* OscarL
switches to Intel PRO/1000 MT Desktop.
<OscarL>
soemtimes (like just now) after a few enable/disable, virtio-net finally gets "Ready".
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<OscarL>
heh, seems vmware_accelerant spamming SHOW_CURSOR() on syslog was pissing off diver too (that was a quick merge :-D)
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<OscarL>
'lo Begasus.
<Begasus>
Hi OscarL!
<Begasus>
g'morning peeps
<Begasus>
prepping at the dogschool :)
<OscarL>
woof! (/me could use some learning of new tricks)
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<Begasus>
dogs at home now, plenty of other ones around though (later)
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<Begasus>
k, first round is ready :)
<Begasus>
nice, first run today :) grabbing openimageio2.2-2.2.16.0-1-x86_64.hpkg and moving it to /Opslag/haikuports/packages/openimageio2.2-2.2.16.0-1-x86_64.hpkg
<Begasus>
grabbing gsoap-2.8.135-1-x86_64.hpkg and moving it to /Opslag/haikuports/packages/gsoap-2.8.135-1-x86_64.hpkg
<Begasus>
;)
<OscarL>
Begasus: out of frustration, I started to try to extract them out (managed to compile vboxvideo/vboxvideo.accelerant "out of tree", with just some generic Makefiles)
<Begasus>
getting there then :)
<OscarL>
jpelczar: definitively intereted, even if I'll probably will understand very little :-P (might be better to work on a separate branch instead of on top of master thou)
<OscarL>
I doubt adding boost source on-tree will fly on reviews thou.
<arraybolt3>
part of me is debating whether to dare trying to bring up Firefox on Haiku. Looks probably close to impossible though, and the sheer number of vendored deps is o_O
<arraybolt3>
meh. Given there are already working web browsers, probably is more productive to keep looking into full-disk encryption. I actually got far enough in research that I know what algorithm is probably good to use. But of course ERR:TIME_CONSTRAINTS
<PulkoMandy>
the remaining problems with it are getting Haiku to boot from an encrypted drive
<arraybolt3>
ah darn! Oh well :P
* arraybolt3
returns to work
<Begasus>
arraybolt3 3dEyes is doing most work on qtwebengine lately
<arraybolt3>
PulkoMandy: out of curiosity Haiku doesn't have anything similar to initramfs does it?
<Begasus>
but at least for me latest one is broken on 32bit
<arraybolt3>
I guess it doesn't matter because the kernel will have to be on an unencrypted partition anyway. The only reason Linux needs an initramfs for decrypting the drive is because it uses a userspace tool to set up the encrypted drive and prompt for the passphrase, and technically that could be done without an initramfs too.
<PulkoMandy>
arraybolt3: we have various things, I think there is a "tar filesystem" that can be used to use a tar archive in RAM as a filesystem. So maybe that could work. Or maybe put the haiku package and its dependencies in a boot partition so we can boot far enough with that before unencrypting everything else. Didn't think too much about it
<arraybolt3>
I've worked a lot with the actual "glue" bits of FDE under Linux so I have some thoughts there. But yeah, as long as there's a way to prompt for a passphrase, a way to get the disk set up so the kernel can access it, and some mechanism along the lines of crypttab and fstab so the kernel knows what to mount from where and when to wait, it should be workable
<arraybolt3>
most likely the hardest part of that will be prompting for the passphrase, everything else should be more-or-less already there or easy to get there.
<PulkoMandy>
maybe an easier option is to have the bootloader decrypt the partition, and pass the decryption passphrase to the kernel, that should be workable as well
<PulkoMandy>
the bootloader is stored in the EFI partition, and already has some user interface (the early boot menu) that could be used for this
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<arraybolt3>
mmm, bootloader management of things gets very sticky very fast if you're not careful.
<arraybolt3>
For one, now you have to have all the decryption code in the bootloader, which could be tricky.
<arraybolt3>
For two, you have to deal with the bootloader's processing constraints, meaning that the decryption may be slower than if the kernel did it directly.
<arraybolt3>
For three, and this is the really sticky part, you run into *severe* keyboard layout issues (i.e. non-U.S. English passphrases just don't work).
<arraybolt3>
because unless the bootloader has advanced keyboard layout handling (why would it, it's a bootloader), it won't be able to figure out what keyboard layout the user uses and switch to that layout before prompting for the passphrase.
<PulkoMandy>
well, the bootloader in our case already knows how to read the filesystem, find the haiku package file in it, and load the kernel from inside the package file, so, either you can decrypt the disk enough to do this and boot the normal way, or you need to store the needed packages somewhere else
<arraybolt3>
So if the user has the unfortunate choice of setting a passphrase like "my_ñu_name", they're now locked out because they can't type the ñ.
<arraybolt3>
The kernel on the other hand usually has enough of the pieces together to be able to figure out the user's keyboard layout from a config file, load it, *then* display the passphrase prompt, and now passphrases with characters like ñ or ç or whatever become typable.
<arraybolt3>
*typeable? typable? idk how to spell anymore I guess
<oanderso[m]>
tqh: I think I fixed all the formatting issues on the base diff? The bot is reporting suggestions that are identical to what's already there now...
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<phschafft>
Good morning.
<Begasus>
g'morning phschafft
<phschafft>
:)
<phschafft>
I hear the day is better when you have some big cat around for a nap.
<OscarL>
yeah, at least it is sorted /me gives a bad look at activated-packages :-P
<hsp>
thx
<OscarL>
to be fair, "search" sounds a bit off there. "pkgman list -i" would be better, IMO.
<hsp>
'pkgman list' does not exist
<OscarL>
right, it does not. I was saying that I would like it better if it did.
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* phschafft
waves to nephele.
<PulkoMandy>
cmake does not find freetype in webkit_gtk build for x86. I would guess this is a common problem and people more used to haikuports tricks than me have fixed this a dozen times in other recipes. What do I need to do to make this work? :)
<Nephele>
arraybolt3: I don't see why the bootloader would not be able to set the keyboard layout, or get told by the OS what the layout was at passphrase creation time
<Nephele>
in effect it's "just" a PE executable, so why shouldn't it?
<PulkoMandy>
or you can just store the passphrase in terms of keyboard keycodes and then it's independant of the keyboard layout :)
<Nephele>
hello phschafft
<Nephele>
PulkoMandy: would be harder then to decrypt it when you are *not* booting, or if you have a different keyboard
<Nephele>
as in if you have a US keyboard you wouldn't be able to decrypt drives from a EU keyboard since those have 4 keys more, and the user might have used them
<Nephele>
also, no way to display the passphrase to users to let them check for errors
<x512[m]>
PulkoMandy: freetype recipe is broken?
<x512[m]>
Are cmake/pkgconfig files installed correctly and have valid contents?
<OscarL>
darn, Pe crashed, and binary was stripped :-(
<PulkoMandy>
x512[m]: I don't think so, it's more likely a problem with FindFreetype in cmake not looking at the right place. If I understand correctly, it tries a few well-known paths, and if that doesn't work it asks pkgconfig for 'freetype', but the pkgconfig file is actually 'freetype2' (but that is also the case on Debian, for example, so I think the cmake use of pkgconfig to find freetype is just broken everywh
<PulkoMandy>
ere)
<Nephele>
OscarL: i think the idea is that one can download the _debuginfo packages, and the normal binaries are just stripped
<Nephele>
i don't think the make report option allows to do that yet though
<PulkoMandy>
so it's probably just having to hint cmake about the path where it is installed (maybe it failed to add the x86 subdirectory or something like that, I'm not sure and I can't find any logs)
<x512[m]>
Ah, broken CMake FindXXX.
<OscarL>
I'm using a local build, but even then... it has ""STRIP_APPS ?= 1" on the Jamrules.
<Nephele>
ah okay
<OscarL>
just noticed now, because I haven't seen Pe crash in ages.
<x512[m]>
OscarL: In theory when compiled as HPKG, it should have debug info in separate package.
<x512[m]>
If not, it should be fixed.
<x512[m]>
Some script that extracts and generate debug info package is available in HaikuPorter.
<OscarL>
x512[m]: makes sense for the recipe, not sure I agree with upstream Jamrules stripping it though.
<x512[m]>
Maybe leftover of proprietary era.
<OscarL>
doubt Maarten was using Jam back then :-D
<PulkoMandy>
ah, madmax has already fixed cmake, let's try that
<OscarL>
x512[m]: "STRIP_APPS now defaults to 1 and is always set to 0 if in debug-mode." <<< from 2004 :-)
<OscarL>
And Pe recipe: doesn't sets it to 0, and doesn't provides _debuginfo package.
<OscarL>
I should remember to fix that on next update.
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<Anarchos>
how can i suspend a team in terminal ?
<OscarL>
^z
<Anarchos>
no cause the "configure" command launched many teams. I want to suspend only one or two of them
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<OscarL>
find the pid and send a signal via kill?
<Anarchos>
OscarL there is the command renice :)
<OscarL>
does it actually allows you to suspend teams?
<OscarL>
or just make them less annoying while you wait for them to finish? :-)
<Anarchos>
OscarL less annoying
<Anarchos>
my trouble is that haiku is constantly swapping cause 2 gcc processes overload the system
* OscarL
runs with VM off and lets things die of natura causes if they eat too much ram :-P
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 6f33c2f - qca, drop old recipe (#11022)
<Begasus>
PulkoMandy, does it work better with the fixes from madmax for cmake?
<PulkoMandy>
I'm building cmake to test it
<arraybolt3>
nephele: I mean technically it's possible but keyboard layout junk is complicated (peer into console-setup in Linux, it's an entire world).
<arraybolt3>
I doubt the usefulness of implementing that twice (I assume Haiku already has one implementation)
<Nephele>
we have a pretty sane keyboard layout format. Don't see the problem with using those
<Nephele>
seems easier than getting half the userland into a kernel image or something ;)
<Begasus>
bbl
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<arraybolt3>
doesn't have to be half the userland but fair enough, having DriveEncryption support in the bootloader would allow the kernel and whatnot to be encrypted too
<Nephele>
The efi loader already allows text input iirc
<PulkoMandy>
Begasus[m]: seems to be working fine :) building gtkwebkit now
<botifico>
[haiku/website] Calisto-Mathias 49a58b6 - [GSoC 2024]: Improvements to Tracker - Implementing an Incremental Search - Final Report upload (#710)
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<Anarchos>
Funny : i have 2 Terminal windows but Twitcher finds only one
<OscarL>
Anarchos: right :-(
<OscarL>
only the first one, apparently (Terminal 1)
<Anarchos>
OscarL no : if i op en a 3rd one, then Twitcher sees 1 & 3
<OscarL>
it didn't for me with Terminal 1 in workspace 1, and two more in workspace 2.
<OscarL>
I was in ws2... it only saw Terminal 1 :-D
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<Begasus>
re, back home :)
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<dovsienko>
is there an estimate somewhere how much exactly Haiku is a "Unix-like" OS?
<Habbie>
that might depend on what you mean by unix-like ;)
<phschafft>
just see how many software got ported. and I guess a good deal of that got ported relativly smoothly.
<Habbie>
definitely a good indicator
<Habbie>
this was not bad on BeOS 15-20 years ago either, but Haiku certainly does better
<Begasus>
back then we were stuck also with 2.95
<Habbie>
true
<Habbie>
my biggest problem back then, iirc, is that socket and file FDs had separate namespaces
<Begasus>
I still beleive the comming of gcc4 made the first real change
<phschafft>
if you would want a harder metric you might check how exactly it follows POSIX. with POSIX being one of many possible definitions of UNIX alikeness.
<dovsienko>
allowing more than one human to log in would be more Unix-like (although some Unixes in 1980s were single-user, AFAIK)
<dovsienko>
I wonder if macOS supports multiple users
<Habbie>
it does
<OscarL>
dovsienko: I've just used "useradd TestUser", and I can log in via "ssh TestUser@192.168.1.x", while I'm using the same system as user OscarL.
<Habbie>
but are the two users protected from eachother in any way?
<dovsienko>
OscarL: does the other user have a separate home directory with sensible owner and permissions?
<OscarL>
friends share! :-P
<Habbie>
communism is optional in posix
<OscarL>
haven't set a different home for his TestUser, and ~ is just plain /system/home :-)
<OscarL>
*/boot/home
<OscarL>
tried mkdir /boot/home2 as TestUser... permition denied.
<OscarL>
yet I can see the files in /boot/home, heh.
<OscarL>
"useradd TestUser2 -d /boot/home2", logged in via ssh, right into /boot/home2, but "cd ~" sends you to "/boot/home", and bash tries to write to "/boot/home2/config/settings/bash_history" and fails (no config/settings dir).
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<OscarL>
had wrong owner for /boot/home2, now bash works. echo $HOME still points to the wrong one, thou.
<jmairboeck>
I think $HOME is somewhere hardcoded to /boot/home in some environment setup script
<OscarL>
right
<OscarL>
on /system/boot/SetupEnvironment
<OscarL>
$USER and $GROUP look fine for both users.
<augiedoggie>
seems like the package repositories haven't been updating for a few days :/
<hsp>
beta5 should be available today, or am I wrong?
<nipos>
It's ready when it's ready ;)
<nipos>
We're very near Beta5,but if I know right,the switch to OpenSSL 3 for all packages needs to be finished first and I doubt that will all happen today
<dovsienko>
Skipp_OSX: "clearing of trailing spaces" in RAMFS means a filesystem bug (Haiku #10463, discussed at length in the referenced issue)
<JulianTheFox>
Oh well, I guess that we just need to wait until the driver for the card gets ported or written
<nipos>
Maybe get a supported Wifi chip.The one I linked in the forum costs only 20 euro or so.Or get a supported USB wifi stick,they cost about 10 euro
<JulianTheFox>
I think that I had somewhere a USB WiFi dongle
<nipos>
There are forum topics at FreeBSD about the RTL8191SEvB from 10 years ago and it's still unsupported.I don't think there's much hope it will happen soon
<dovsienko>
JulianTheFox: the simplest way out of this problem space would be to splash $10 on RTL8188EUS USB WiFi dongle
<dovsienko>
or maybe replace the mini-PCIe WiFi adapter in the laptop if possible
<JulianTheFox>
Oh well, I'm broke right now, so I think that I need to wait
<JulianTheFox>
That's posibble, I'm on my Lenovo ThinkPad SL510 right now and the WiFi card can be replaced
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<JulianTheFox>
Does anyone know if Haiku supports sleep mode?
<nipos>
I think it doesn't
systwi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<nosycat>
In the power menu there's just shutdown and reboot.
<JulianTheFox>
Ah
<JulianTheFox>
I ask because I noticed that the ThinkPad didn't go into sleep mode after I closed the display lid
<nipos>
About your USB dongle...Do you know which chip it uses?I can look if it should be supported.And did you have it plugged in while booting?
<JulianTheFox>
I unplugged it for now, so I can't check that right now. It did only work after a full reboot
<dovsienko>
that's expected
<nipos>
That's a known issue,yes.But if it works then,everything is fine I guess?
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<JulianTheFox>
Well, it does show WiFi networks, but it has troubles connecting to them
<dovsienko>
let's try to solve one problem at a time
<dovsienko>
which specific troubles?
<JulianTheFox>
Does show networks, but after typing in correct password, it doesn't want to connect.
<dovsienko>
is there an error or a timeout or?
<JulianTheFox>
There is no timeout or any error. It only says that the password is incorrect, but that's not the case
<dovsienko>
that's weird
<dovsienko>
it would be very helpful to retry exactly the same using a known-good piece of hardware, then if that works that would prove the problem is with the first adapter
<nipos>
One of my laptops also loves to tell me the password is wrong,when it isn't.Maybe try a second or third time,then it may work (it does for me0
<nipos>
You may also try connecting to your phone in hotspot mode.First with WPA2 encryption as usual and if that doesn't work,maybe try if a unencrypted hotspot would work just for fun (but don't leave it open)
<JulianTheFox>
It doesn't for me, and I cannot test the hardware idea right now
<JulianTheFox>
I did try the hotspot through a phone too, it didn't work either
<dovsienko>
well, then stick with a wired connection for a while
<nipos>
Knowing which chip your USB dongle uses would be helpful here,again.Maybe it's a known issue for that specific chip
<JulianTheFox>
Now, I'll go try to find any other miniPCIe network cards that I have
<JulianTheFox>
Be right back
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<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 82413d4 - raptor, revbump for openssl, add Arch patch for libxml2 (#11029)
<dovsienko>
when I plug my USB WiFi adapter, there are two syslog messages. the first one looks reasonable: "usb hub 2: port 1: new device connected", the second one looks off: "usb_audio:336.40.279:init_driver::ver.0.0.5"
<PulkoMandy>
all drivers get asked if they can handle a device
<PulkoMandy>
this one probably replies "no", but has a log in the function doing that
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<dovsienko>
PulkoMandy: is it worth filing a cosmetic bug report?
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<PulkoMandy>
I think yes, this log is a bit confusing if you don't know what's happening
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<Skipp_OSX>
is the download WebPositive issue fixed on 32-bit yet?
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<Skipp_OSX>
Last I heard it was fixed on 64-bit still waiting for the package to build on 32-bit bit.
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] pulkomandy 42986a0 - webkit_gtk: depend explicitly on freetype_devel
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<JulianTheFox>
I'm back. As it turns out, ThinkPads mind having the networking cards swapped, and when I swapped the WiFi card, I was greeted with the 1802 error
<PulkoMandy>
Skipp_OSX: still trying to get a 32bit build
<PulkoMandy>
this time the builder ran out of memory
<PulkoMandy>
I will try to disable unified builds in the recipe but for this I need to merge some commits from upstream, so testing that now
<Skipp_OSX>
2GB limit is a problem
<Skipp_OSX>
ok cool. There's a couple more patches I'd like to get in before beta5 if possible, but if not, that's ok.
<Begasus>
begger qgit still not done
<PulkoMandy>
well, webkit by default builds several c++ files at a time (#includes them in a single file) to speed up the build, but this increases memory usage of gcc (and I'm not even sure it's faster)
<PulkoMandy>
so I have to disable that, but the build with this option disabled is often broken due to missing includes. So I will merge a slightly newer version of WebKit where GTK devs have fixed this for us :)
<PulkoMandy>
then it should be under 2GB again
<dovsienko>
ticket 19037 it is then
<Begasus>
for breeze-icons it was the other way around, they introduced a OOM for 32bit, so had to revert it there :)
<Begasus>
retroshare build with ffmpeg4
<dovsienko>
JulianTheFox: on my ThinkPad Haiku does not even boot, your problem is relatively small
<Skipp_OSX>
on my Pinebook Pro Haiku doesn't even load the kernel
<Skipp_OSX>
:)
<Skipp_OSX>
Haiku usually works pretty well on ThinkPads so your problem may actually be solvable. I got Haiku running well on this ThinkPad next to me.
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus f782efd - retroshare, revbump for openssl3 (use ffmpeg4 for this now) (#11030)
<Skipp_OSX>
heyo
<dovsienko>
Skipp_OSX: this can wait until other problems are solved
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<JulianTheFox>
I have a ThinkPad SL510 from 2010, it has a Core 2 Duo T6670, 2GB of RAM and a 160GB SATA III hard drive. Haiku does run good on here too
<Skipp_OSX>
I still think Haiku needs a hardware platform, and by that I mean a single machine we can point to and say: buy this: [insert magical machine you can buy that everything works on here]
<dovsienko>
that would make sense, or even a hardware compatibility list
<PulkoMandy>
Skipp_OSX: that machine would be obsolete by the time we have all the drivers for it :)
<Skipp_OSX>
We have a hardware compatibility list already, and that is good, but it would still be nice to have a machine to recommend.
<dovsienko>
it would be nice to have RPi on that list
<Skipp_OSX>
Sure, if Haiku ran on RaspPi that would be awesome.
<JulianTheFox>
Btw, how to ping a user here? Like, how you all do that the pinged user sees the text in red?
<dovsienko>
(I know board bring-up is a substantial amount of work, and I don't have the bootloader/kernel development skills to contribute)
<Skipp_OSX>
We're on the driver treadmill either way, obsolete is fine as long as you can buy it at the [web] store.
<Habbie>
JulianTheFox, you mean like this?
<JulianTheFox>
Yes
<Habbie>
just your name in front
<Habbie>
in my client i can use tab to complete the name
<Begasus>
biab
* dovsienko
. o O (classic 1990s technology) :-)
<JulianTheFox>
I still don't know
<JulianTheFox>
Hold on
<JulianTheFox>
Habbie, does this work?
<Habbie>
yes
<JulianTheFox>
All right
<Skipp_OSX>
I was looking on Aliexpress last night and ran across the "AKPAD Ultrabook PC Notebook, 15.6 Inch Intel Celeron J4125" I'll let you find it yourself if you'd like. But it's a $150 laptop. That would be the kind of option for a Haikubook I was thinking of.
<JulianTheFox>
Skipp_OSX, I still remember when Linus tested the "brown star for effort" laptop, I think that it woud be a good Haikubook
<Skipp_OSX>
$150 for a laptop with a 1080p screen and ssd, if it ran Haiku, that would be the kind of option I am thinking of to say, hey, you want Haiku to work, get one of these, otherwise YMMV.
<PulkoMandy>
I'm not interested in running Haiku on cheap and slow hardware personally, it's on my main laptop
<dovsienko>
depends on the workload
<Skipp_OSX>
idk what the brown star for effort laptop is, but yeah, that's the idea, a cheap laptop.
<PulkoMandy>
well that's your ideal machine, maybe, but it's not mine. So I will continue to focus on my current machine and try to write drivers for that :)
<Skipp_OSX>
Intel Celeron J4125 us 4-core 2ghz, Intel UHD 600 not too bad.
<Skipp_OSX>
It's not about my idea machine, it's not about me at all, it's about Haiku having a hardware platform for everyone.
<JulianTheFox>
Yea, that's the point
<Skipp_OSX>
A reference platform if you will. Sure we could have a $2000 laptop be our reference platform but that would probably not be the best choice.
<JulianTheFox>
Or maybe older ThinkPads that are cheap by now
<Skipp_OSX>
Yeah, that's pretty much the closest thing we have to a reference platform now.
<JulianTheFox>
Like me right now who has Haiku OS on my ThinkPad SL510
<Skipp_OSX>
There you go
<JulianTheFox>
I bought this machine for 200 PLN (50 USD) with the 160GB hard drive, 2GB of RAM, Core 2 Duo, and an original AC adapter
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah... core 2 duo probably not my first choice :)
<JulianTheFox>
Haiku runs great on here
<JulianTheFox>
Skipp_OSX, yea, I do understand, but the T420 can be picked up for as cheap and it has i5 2'nd gen
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah I have a Lenovo X220, so does Pulko, it runs great on that, and the 2nd gen i series not the much faster.
<Skipp_OSX>
Exactly, the T420 (blaze it) is the more practical choice.
<JulianTheFox>
Like right now, I found a T420 in used condition, 320GB hard drive, 4GB of RAM, i5-2520M, but without an AC adapter
<JulianTheFox>
For 200 PLN (50 USD)
<Skipp_OSX>
ooooooOOOoooo
<Skipp_OSX>
I got the i7 model... I thought it was quad core... turns out it is a dual core with hyper threading... I was wondering why everybody seemed to have hyper-threading turned on except for me, turns out I was just wrong about the core count.
<dovsienko>
looks about the right price
<JulianTheFox>
That would be a great Haikubook in my opinion, the i5-2520M is around 2,5x stronger than the Core 2 Duo, but even the Core 2 Duo SL510 (that I'm on right now) feels responsive nough to be a daily driver or a portable word processor with benefits of running other stuff too
<Skipp_OSX>
It is a great Haiku book yeah
<Skipp_OSX>
wifi, sound, video all work
<JulianTheFox>
enough*
<JulianTheFox>
Yea
<Skipp_OSX>
At least they will once we release R1B5 or on nightly.
<JulianTheFox>
Only the down sides are the degraded original batteries, and (on the T420) missing TrackPoint cover
<Skipp_OSX>
and that it's 3/4" think
<Skipp_OSX>
thick*
<JulianTheFox>
But new replacement batteries are cheap
<JulianTheFox>
Skipp_OSX, my SL510 is about 3cm thick with the lid closed
<Skipp_OSX>
mmmm well, sorta, third party ones are cheap, first party expensive, need to mod BIOS to get the 3rd party ones to charge.
<JulianTheFox>
Wdym by "modify BIOS"?
<Skipp_OSX>
Lenovo battery shenanigans.
<JulianTheFox>
Ah
<Skipp_OSX>
I mean that the BIOS in the machine looks for 3rd party battery and refuses to charge it, but you can update the BIOS with a hacked version that gets around it.
<JulianTheFox>
Ah
<JulianTheFox>
Damn, Lenovo is trully a B-word
<Skipp_OSX>
bourgeois?
<JulianTheFox>
No
<Skipp_OSX>
(hehe)
<JulianTheFox>
The B-word, also used to describe a female dog
<JulianTheFox>
You know what I mean
<Skipp_OSX>
my synonym game is on point
<JulianTheFox>
Breating In Thick Carsenogenic Helium (the word is hidden somewhere here)
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<JulianTheFox>
Anyways, jokes aside, my opinion is that the T420 is a great machine to be a Haikubook
<JulianTheFox>
It's cheap, it's easily avaiable, and has an advantage of having Windows, too
<nosycat>
Some Thinkpads run Haiku very well, others not at all.
<JulianTheFox>
Yea
<nosycat>
Old and new models alike, doesn't matter.
<JulianTheFox>
Oh god, I didn't knew that Haiku can make the display so dim
<JulianTheFox>
Ideal for watching stuff at night x)
* Anarchos
runs haiku on a netbook really smoothly
<nosycat>
Yeah! Where it does run, performace is amazing.
<JulianTheFox>
How to do that text?
<nosycat>
With /me
<JulianTheFox>
Also, nosycat, I totally agree, Haiku is running great on my SL510 even tho the Core 2 Duo can barely handle Windows 10
<Skipp_OSX>
Well I was also looking at netbooks, ActionRetro put Haiku on Evolve Maestro III and it didn't support a bunch of stuff: eMMC, wifi. There is a similarly costing netbook from Lenovo.
* JulianTheFox
runs Haiku on an old ThinkPad and is really smooth
<Anarchos>
nosycat it is a 'one laptop per child ' kind
<Skipp_OSX>
Yes, Haikus on a Core 2 Duo machine a lot better than Windows 10, or even 7.
<nosycat>
:O
<JulianTheFox>
Skipp_OSX, I mean, Windows 7 runs OK on Core 2 Duo, but yea, it isn't that great. It's enough to get the job done, but it isn't a powerhouse by any means
<JulianTheFox>
But Haiku on other hand, Core 2 Duo is a lot performance on it
<JulianTheFox>
Even Pentium 4 gets usable with Haiku
<nosycat>
I have a Core 2 Quad with 4GB of RAM. The jump from Debian 10 to Debian 12 was noticeable.
<nosycat>
In four years when Bookworm goes out of warranty, I may well have to put Haiku on it instead.
<Anarchos>
this machine is really impressive : not a compile beast, but it has 2 audio output, and the screen is a touchscreen (and can be rotated over the keyboard , as a tablet). And webcam rotates 270° (in front of me to in front of back of back)
<nosycat>
Oh, nice!
<Anarchos>
this is the machine i try to do the accelerometer driver for.
<JulianTheFox>
What machine are you talking about, Anarchos?
<Anarchos>
(yes it has an embedded accelerometer !)
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<Anarchos>
JulianTheFox fizzbook zoostorm (NL2)
<JulianTheFox>
Ah
<JulianTheFox>
Damn, I just looked at the machine
<JulianTheFox>
It does look sick and cool, it reminds me of my HP Comaq TC4200, but without the webcam
<Anarchos>
:)
<Anarchos>
i changed the wifi chip for a more sensitive one
<JulianTheFox>
Should I try tracking x86 version of Haiku and seeing how good does it perform on my TC4200?
<Anarchos>
but i did't take time to see if i can improve its RAM
<Anarchos>
should i renice with a positive or negative increment to increase throughput of a team ?
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<scantysnax>
hey guys, i'm so sorry about that before
<scantysnax>
i pasted from webpositive and that's what happened
<nosycat>
JulianTheFox, it's worth a try.
<JulianTheFox>
Well, I'm now downloading a 32-bit ISO, and I'll try to boot it on the TC4200
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<JulianTheFox>
One thing that I like about haiku is that every window's title bar looks like a bookmark and can be moved around
<JulianTheFox>
That allows to stack windows and have access to every window
<nosycat>
Yeah, you can do that in FluxBox for example, but it's a rare feature outside Haiku.
<Anarchos>
is it possible to stop some system servers, without them being automatically relaunched ?
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus eecf48b - eiskaltdcpp, revbump for openssl3 (quick fix for luah.h) (#11031)
<JulianTheFox>
Anarchos, I don't know
<JulianTheFox>
Also
<JulianTheFox>
Skipp_OSX, the T420 is also a good Haikubook due to it having also a CD/DVD drive, so if someone has a Haiku DVD, it doesn't require copying the DVD to a drive
<Anarchos>
this poor laptop has just 3Mb free on 1Gb .... It is constantly swapping since yesterday cause i launched 'configure --build-cross-tools -j2' :/
<JulianTheFox>
Damn
<gordonjcp>
JulianTheFox: can confirm, am running Haiku well on a T430
<JulianTheFox>
T430 is a bit newer than T420, but yea
<JulianTheFox>
I'm running Haiku on SL510 and it's running great even tho the hardware is as powerful as a typical Atom laptop made today
<jmairboeck>
my texlive refactoring PR is ready, I think. What do you think, can I sneak in 20 recipes for building (18 new ones and 2 updated)? Or should I wait until the buildmasters are less occupied?
<Begasus>
I'm done for today
<Begasus>
but I guess that will take quite some time on the buildmasters too
<Begasus>
trying to port gtk4 and it needed it enabled here.* maybe I should already hand him my recipe for gtk4 :)
<Begasus>
ohwell, maybe he got further, when I attempted that wasn't even a vulkan driver :)
<jmairboeck>
harfbuzz is a dependency of texlive, that is a nice coincidence :)
<Begasus>
it's also one for Haiku iirc :)
<Begasus>
time to close down here
<Begasus>
cu peeps!
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<scantylaptop>
found a laptop in my junk pile and it seems to run okay
<scantylaptop>
haiku 32bit 4 core corei3
<boody24[m]>
<boody24[m]> "did I understand the ticket..." <- Could someone please guide through this one?
<boody24[m]>
Just where to look
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<scantylaptop>
wow even sound works!
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<scantylaptop>
battery needs replace, but otherwise seems to run everythinig OK off the CD
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<dovsienko>
scantylaptop: and WiFi?
<scantylaptop>
yeah
<scantylaptop>
Atheros
<dovsienko>
maybe take a note of the exact model and update the HCL if it is not there
<arraybolt3>
my old 32-bit Celeron machine has Broadcom WiFi and even that works
<arraybolt3>
Haiku's hardware support is surprisingly good
<Skipp_OSX>
usb works fine though so I opted for X series instead
* Skipp_OSX
I have an external usb optical drive that also works fine
<scantylaptop>
it's a Toshiba Satellite can't tell what model
<Skipp_OSX>
The T420 is too physically large for me
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<dovsienko>
scantylaptop: if you boot Linux and run dmidecode, on a brand name laptop the part numbers will be populated correctly
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<Anarchos>
arraybolt3 well, to be fair, most of our wifi drivers are freebsd ones, haiku just build a compatibility layer to be able to use them
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<Anarchos>
i got pity of this poor laptop and reboot it.
<mmlr>
waddlesplash: I'm experiencing long hangs that also block other applications when unpacking large archives or checking out large git repos and at other random times
<Anarchos>
mmlr yes it seems priority inversion when lots of HDD activity
<mmlr>
but the extraction itself stalls for minutes at a time sometimes
<mmlr>
never experiences this to that extreme an extent
<x512[m]>
If disk is slow and there are a lot of RAM it may stall even for minutes.
<mmlr>
it's virtio to an image on an nvme ssd, it shouldn't be slow
<mmlr>
you mean because it's cached in ram and then the write back is what stalls?
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<x512[m]>
Yes. Flushing BFS journal seems cause flushing all write cache.
<x512[m]>
But it shouldn't.
<x512[m]>
If there a lot of RAM, flushing RAM cache may takes minutes.
<x512[m]>
RAM cache -> write cache
<mmlr>
but it seems more systemic, even closing applications stalls without the windows going away
<mmlr>
even something as basic as the clock app will just stay on screen until it then suddenly goes further
<x512[m]>
Can you check kernel stack trace and what lock is hold in KDL when window close freeze?
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<mmlr>
yeah, was just about to try that
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<mmlr>
indeed, it's waiting on the journal
<Anarchos>
axeld was so good for bug onfile systems…
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<jhj>
x512[m]: Would it be possible for Haiku to implement MADV_NOSYNC / MAP_NOSYNC semantics eventually? I don't know what the *current* semantics are.
<jhj>
FreeBSD implements it and it works as advertised. For an mmap'd region with a filesystem backing store, it delays the writing of dirty pages to the physical disk (although everything is consistent at the vfs level)
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<Anarchos>
is it still possible to compile haiku on a gcc2hybrid ?? I can't find the good configuration
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<PulkoMandy>
Yes, but you have to ask waddlesplash because the documentation was not updated
<PulkoMandy>
I think you need to set CC=gcc-x86 before running the configure script? Something like that, but without documentation you can't guess it :(
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<Anarchos>
will try
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<mmlr>
so the stalls appear to be caused by IO errors reported in the finish callback
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<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy still troubles with downloading gcc_syslibs_devel-5.4.0_2016_06_04-4-x86.hpkg :(
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] c9ce7be28c97 - AbstractSpinner: live update text color when enabled
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<OscarL>
That "use pause on KDL to reduce CPU usage" is not working for me at all (nor in VirtualBox, nor in bare-metal on an Atom N450) :-(
<OscarL>
right at entering KDL, CPU fan does its best turbo-jet impression.
<Skipp_OSX>
so can I boot my pinebook pro yet or not? :)
<Skipp_OSX>
Interesting time for arm64 updates
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX is build broken on x86 ? I can't download gcc_syslibs_devl_5.4.0
<Skipp_OSX>
not as far as I know
<Skipp_OSX>
I got x86 running here let me update and see
<Skipp_OSX>
seems to be working here on latest hrev (not bet4)
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX i can't find the options to configure to let it build
<Skipp_OSX>
oh wait but I got 2.95.3 not 5.4.0
<OscarL>
"Invalid Opcode Exception", ouch.
<Anarchos>
so you're on x86_gcc2 arch
<Skipp_OSX>
correct
* OscarL
checks for stray old drivers he might have lying around.
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX ./configure doesn't work on x86_gcc2 anymore : 'the host tools cannot be built with a legacy version of GCC'
<dovsienko>
OscarL: see bug 18903 re your earlier question about RAMFS bug fix for the release notes
* Anarchos
tries anoter setup : x86_gcc2 and 'CC=gcc-x86 ../configure'
<Anarchos>
now it downloads the gcc_syslibs_devel-13.3.0
<dovsienko>
OscarL: also 18896
<Skipp_OSX>
aha
<Skipp_OSX>
we updated our gcc seems like
<Skipp_OSX>
let me try to configure and see
<Skipp_OSX>
same message about legacy gcc no longer supported here
<OscarL>
dovsienko: hi! yeah noticed your mention on the IRC logs. I considered it might be something like that, but "trailing spaces" might not be the best wording in the context of release notes (intended for general public).
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<OscarL>
crap, another KDL... *after* I removed all old custom drivers I had :-(
<Skipp_OSX>
not it says a python interpreter is required...
<OscarL>
something 'bout vm_copy_area... libfreetype. Darn screen is too small, and traceback too long.
<OscarL>
"bt" --- stack trace for thread 172 "GlobalFontManager".
<OscarL>
rebooted because CPU fan is too loud.
<OscarL>
I should try changing that "pause" for "hlt" to see if it helps with that (unless it breaks things further :-D)
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<OscarL>
Skipp_OSX: not --> now? make sure you have Python 3.10 installed
<Skipp_OSX>
ok 3.12 no good, but, 3.10 worked... Configured successfully!
<OscarL>
Skipp_OSX: only "default" python provides /bin/python3
<Skipp_OSX>
well then install it by default :)
<OscarL>
it is?
<Skipp_OSX>
ok fine then then that's ok
<OscarL>
in anycase... guess you could add a symlink in non-packaged for 3.12 :-)
<Skipp_OSX>
right right gotcha
<Skipp_OSX>
buildin'
<OscarL>
Some day we might have some "select-alternatives" mechanism...
<OscarL>
I do *not* want to do for Python's what's done for the openjdk ones.
<OscarL>
but maybe a "meta" package/recipe with some post-install script that ask user to choose the default might work?
* Anarchos
finally compiled his accelerometer driver :)
<Skipp_OSX>
anyway, it's going, build seems unbroken so far I'll let you know if it fails.
* Anarchos
rushes into syslog to lookf for the traces
<OscarL>
"checkfs /boot" is blazingly fast on the netbook, slow as molases on the desktop (both 20 GB partitions with plenty of files)
<OscarL>
DriveSetup is waaay to wide, and scrolling to see the info is not nice. Maybe some of the info could be placed into a "left pane", so the listview gets narrower?
<OscarL>
Anarchos: is your netbook one of the "Classmate PC" ones?
<Anarchos>
OscarL no idea, but it has an ACCE001 peripheral in the ACPI enumeration.
<Anarchos>
OscarL it is a fizzbook zoostorm (model NL2)
<OscarL>
who the hell put "Industria Politecnica Meridionale SpA" as the description for acpi/hid IPML200 :-D