<OscarL>
diver: you might need to kick your IRC client (or NIC, or router) in the rear so it stops disconnecting/reconnecting :-)
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<MonniTheCat>
Kangaroo mode ;)
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<erysdren>
diver
<erysdren>
stahp
<MonniTheCat>
Reminds me of the time I had to write self-destruct in Unizone, because some users kept reconnecting in tight loop...
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<Molnija>
ve
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<dovsienko>
OscarL: that little clock is a bigger can of worms than it seems :-)
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<OscarL>
dovsienko: indeed :-)
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<dovsienko>
a channel ban comes to mind...
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<OscarL>
usually a /kick is enough, we don't want' to ban our oldest tester/triager :-)
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<OscarL>
too bad operators are not really awake/present ATM :-D
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<MonniTheCat>
Let's just hope the operators are working on Haiku instead and not slacking like others...
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* OscarL
wonders if twiddling fingers while waiting for builds to finish counts as slacking.
<OscarL>
I remember a co-worker that would shout: "Compiling!" and leave the office for a while :-)
<FreeFull>
Haiku doesn't exactly pull in big fat wads of cash
<MonniTheCat>
It takes about 28 minutes to compile for one operating system at work... I do 4 builds every month and few extra when CI fails...
<MonniTheCat>
whole matrix is about 20 builds per project, so 20x28 minutes is a lot of time to wait...
<FreeFull>
Not enough parallelisation?
<MonniTheCat>
Three different CI providers... But some files are huge, total of 20 GB of temporary files...
<MonniTheCat>
Usually it's one or two builds that fail but any fix has to be run on all instances... Upgrading packages in the CI instances is the most common reason of failures, the next common is old CI images getting retired and replaced with newer versions...
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<coolcoder613>
Is my computer supposed to be making this noise? (New PSU) https://0x0.st/Xge6.m4a
<OscarL>
I was talking about the xkcd. Will listen to your .m4a next.
<Skipp_OSX>
only for C++ :)
<OscarL>
coolcoder613: re your PSU noise, sounds like an unbalanced fan to me.
<coolcoder613>
How could I fix that?
<OscarL>
you could try opening up, giving it a good clean with some brush/compressed air, and some wet-cloth/q-tip, etc...
<AlienSoldier>
sometime i put resistor to those fan if the computer hadly have any card in.
<coolcoder613>
I... just did that
<AlienSoldier>
*hardly
<OscarL>
and then adding a drop or two of fine machine oil on the axis of the fan.
<FreeFull>
Gotta be very careful when poking around inside PSUs, those high-voltage capacitors can hold a charge for quite some time
<coolcoder613>
before I installed the PSU I brushed out a lot of dust
<OscarL>
FreeFull: right.
<coolcoder613>
The PSU is brand new
<coolcoder613>
I only brushed out dust from everything else
<OscarL>
coolcoder613: make sure no cable is barely touching the fan blades.
<FreeFull>
The fan could be faulty out of the factory
<FreeFull>
Or yeah, a cable
<AlienSoldier>
sound like a film projector :)
<coolcoder613>
Oh, I think it might be a cable in the way of the cpu fan
<OscarL>
AlienSoldier: instead of a resistor, I just use a tree point switch, and change from 5V to 12V (on the fan I literally tied with string to my "previously-passively-cooled" GPU :-D)
<coolcoder613>
that was it
<AlienSoldier>
that happen to me a lot, cable, on cpu fan.
<OscarL>
coolcoder613: cool!
<OscarL>
might want to use a zip-tie (or whatever are called in English). or (some shoe-lace if you're like me), to keep those pesky cables from falling over the blades again :-P
<AlienSoldier>
or use wireless cable :P
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<OscarL>
while BFS default block size of 2048 bytes sounds like a good compromise for HDDs (with 512 bytes sectors), I wonder if on SSDs (or other NAND storage) it wouldn't be better to use 4 KiB blocks instead.
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<OscarL>
(as in: use a block sector that matches better the "erase block" size of a given storage device)
<OscarL>
(mmm, "erase block" seems to refer to quite a bigger block than the 4KiB "pages" I had in mind :-D)
<MonniTheCat>
Normal people don't say KiB... capital K means Kelvin, not kilo... it's kB for normal people, lowercase k, no i...
<phschafft>
just that KiB is correct and different from kB.
<phschafft>
and I'm very sure the 'pages' here are 4KiB not 4kB.
<MonniTheCat>
phschafft: Some might think that it's correct, but you can't just change what has been used for decades... it's like 1.44 MB floppy isn't actually 1.44 MB, it's 1440 kB = 1440 x 1024 bytes, which is approximately 1.39 MB...
<phschafft>
MonniTheCat: it's in the standards for 25 years. if you head is still so much behind, I'm very sorry for you.
<MonniTheCat>
phschafft: Standards are written by people who actually don't use the things they write standards for... They try to enforce people to use logic, but still leave some things undefined...
<phschafft>
MonniTheCat: if you have nothing of value to add, why are you here?
<phschafft>
the only thing I hear from you are wrong claims and rants.
<OscarL>
wrong claims and rants... sounds like my middle name.
<phschafft>
It's bad for the community to spread misinformation. So I must wonder if you're here to push the project forward, or to harm it.
<MonniTheCat>
Like I've said before, I've been developer for 41 years, which is a lot longer than 25 years... And I started studying in Japan, which is the home for some of the relevant terms... Those didn't originate from Europe or USA...
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<phschafft>
so?
<Begasus>
morning peeps
<phschafft>
mau Begasus.
<phschafft>
MonniTheCat: just because you're old doesn't make anything you say or do right.
<MonniTheCat>
phschafft: It doesn't make them wrong either...
<phschafft>
if at all it suggest that you're not the generation that drives the wheels of today.
<MonniTheCat>
phschafft: Nobody drives the wheels of today, that's why there hasn't been R1 of Haiku for over 15 years...
<phschafft>
MonniTheCat: no, but so far everything you said was wrong. and whenever I pointed you out you wanished into thin air or just keep repeating for how long you have been a developer.
<MonniTheCat>
phschafft: I have live outside IRC and Matrix... I also have life outside computers...
<phschafft>
so do all of us. we still don't spread false information.
<MonniTheCat>
phschafft: History is not false information...
* OscarL
guesses that we all have *someone* that just rubs us the wrong way.
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] PocketNerdIO 94ad3fe - deark: Bump to 1.6.8 (#11172)
<phschafft>
I just don't like people spreading wrong information after I given them the reference to the standards AND posted code that demonstrations the standards as defined in action for everyone to try out.
<phschafft>
and then this 'but I\'m old, you must respect me!'.
<OscarL>
interesting to see how that changes from one folk to another. (bet at least 90% of channel hates my guts :-D)
<phschafft>
if any of the moderators wants to kick me for that, feel free.
<OscarL>
he is not old at all. he just starter really early.
<OscarL>
*started.
<phschafft>
he got all that talk I know from those teachers at university that were 'industriy professionals now teaching' knowing 'how it is'. if you ask, they worked in the industry for 10 years, and are now *litterally* 60 years teaching...
<phschafft>
he has exactly the same feeling.
<Begasus>
is it possible to have sound in vmware?
<Begasus>
trying opensound ...
<Begasus>
nothing ...
<augiedoggie>
did you reboot?
<Begasus>
restarted media services not enough?
<augiedoggie>
no
<Begasus>
oki, will try thanks
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<Halian>
The spambot that replied to my issue on X547's Radeon driver has been deleted
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<OscarL>
Halian: Github sent an email saying that the account was already deleted when they looked into it :-/
<Begasus>
seems to have done it, thank augiedoggie
<Begasus>
hi OscarL
<OscarL>
Hi Begasus :-)
<Halian>
OscarL: they probably replied to me before you
<OscarL>
Halian: could be, maybe a different employee took my "ticket/case".
<janking>
good morning
<OscarL>
o/
<Halian>
janking: mroign
<phschafft>
morning.
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<OscarL>
"haikuporter --list" is slow AF.
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<Begasus>
lost my build scripts :'( backup didn't pick up non-packaged directory :/
<OscarL>
ouch.
<Begasus>
qemu scripts ... all gone
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<OscarL>
Begasus: I'm planning to backup my installs, wipe partitions, and do clean installs of beta5. Not trusting much my BFS partitions anymore lately, even if checkfs shows no errors.
<OscarL>
will probably just use dd to do the backups, thou.
<OscarL>
Mmm, I think I just made haikuporter use just one file instead of > 5300 (using a pickled dictionary instead of lots of 0-bytes files under "haikuports/repository/.skipped").
<Begasus[m]>
OscarL I don't want to nuke the Windows install here, that atleast still boots fine, still have the working partitiion from Haiku, I just can't boot any thumbdrive with Haiku on it, everything else boots fine from USB :(
<OscarL>
Quite the PITA :-(. I would suggest to plug that drive into another computer, but dunno how easy or difficult it is to open your machine (or if you have the correct USB adaptor it anyway).
<OscarL>
*adaptor for it. I have it easier, coz all my drives are just SATA/IDE.
<Begasus>
laptop, so unplugging it shouln't be that hard
<Begasus>
haven't thought about that option yet
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<Anarchos>
hellooo
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<Viking667>
huh. Well, that didn't go well for the first run of Vision. Is there a known problem with joining this channel with that client?
<Anarchos>
Viking667: no it works perfectly for me on bare metal
<Anarchos>
Begasus: my hdd still blinking
<Viking667>
hm, I had a debugger come up for me.
<Anarchos>
Viking667: what version of haiku do you use ?
<Viking667>
I'll try it again in a minute or two, but I'll have to swap between host and VM. I'm on beta5 at the moment, I don't think it's one of the nightlies.
<Viking667>
I've done a pkgman update yesterday, I don't know if Vision was in that list or not.
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<Anarchos>
beta5 should be ok
<Viking667>
hm. Who just joined? (should have been me)
<Viking667>
Ahh, hello Viking668 from Haiku-land
<Viking668>
Ah, that's better. Not dying now.
<Viking668>
Are the nightlies about as stable as beta5, or are there some gotchas I ought to be aware of?
<Anarchos>
Viking668: they are pretty stable.
<Anarchos>
Viking668: but i do'nt know how to compare to beta5 cause i have not extent knowledge of differences between versions.
<Viking668>
Okay, what about changelogs? Are they there?
<Viking668>
Additionally, what _are_ the fine developers using for their SCM of choice? Git? Mercurial? SVN? Heck, SCCS?
<Viking668>
Okay, you might be able to answer a question I'm having then. I'm trying to bring up a codebase on Haiku, most of it's working, but one program in particular wants things
<Viking668>
that I don't know how to find here in Haiku. queue.h, and allocarray()
<Viking668>
sorry, reallocarray
<Begasus>
from: /boot/system/lib/libgettextlib-0.22.5.so:000000000003b4d0 T reallocarray ?
<Begasus>
so maybe you're missing gettext linker?
<Viking668>
Could be. The codebase originates on OpenBSD, but has been brought up successfully on Linux, FreeBSD, netbsd and I suspect QNX as well.
<Viking668>
I could have a little trouble here...
<Begasus>
nothing in system headers
<Viking668>
Yeah, I figured. At least for reallocarray. I've seen malloc and friends, but that function eludes me.
<Begasus>
Anarchos, nice you still have it :)
<Anarchos>
Begasus: i don't know how to solve that
<Begasus>
oh, it's not booting Anarchos?
<Habbie>
i would not expect gettext to be the canonical source of allocarray
<Habbie>
*re
<Habbie>
ah, glibc 2.26 has reallocarray
<Habbie>
reallocarray() is a nonstandard extension that first appeared in OpenBSD 5.6 and FreeBSD 11.0.
<Begasus>
didn't check there Habbie :)
<Viking668>
Me neither, I'll have to do some digging. It's in glibc'.... yeah, that.
<Begasus>
symbol shows up for gettextlib here
<Begasus>
doesn't mean anything perhaps :)
<Viking668>
I did find it mentioned in <stdlib.h>, I think. I'd need to doublecheck that.
<Habbie>
it may mean gettext ships it -because- haiku doesn't have it
<Habbie>
looks like musl has it, so should be easy to import?
<Begasus>
that's up to the main devs, maybe a ticket is already around?
<Begasus>
no hits
<Viking668>
hm. What's the -dev package called for that gettext? I've tried gettext-devel, gettext-dev, libgettext-devel/dev, etc
<Begasus>
64bit?
<Viking668>
yep.
<Begasus>
gettext_devel
<Begasus>
underscores :)
<Viking668>
Ah. it's in the darn _
<Viking668>
thanks
<Begasus>
you can search in Terminal with "pkgman search gettext"
<dovsienko>
Viking668: from the description of reallocarray man page in Linux, it would not be difficult to reimplement it in the source
<Viking667>
(and no, I'm not the principle creator, just a user)
<dovsienko>
Viking667: so maybe ask the developers not to use non-standard functions?
<dovsienko>
or to use Autoconf AC_SUBST() or equivalent if they really need
<Viking667>
They're not using a standard autoconf framework, the guy's basically created one for his own projects and is a co-developer for the sqlite and fossil projects as well as this libfossil
<dovsienko>
well, then it should not be difficult for him to implement and use my_reallocarray(), right?
<Viking667>
probably not. I've got to check out the reallocarray.c he _has_ got inside the fnc client.
<dovsienko>
or at least to merge your patch with the fix
<Viking667>
that could be his solution for it
<Viking667>
but I've yet to find that out. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to development, I've rubbed up against too many computer languages and platforms
<Viking667>
I'll have to head off soon, it's 23:04 Monday night here...
<Viking668>
and the machine THIS vm is hosted on will be shut down for overnight. Sacrilege, I know, but I'm at home.
<deneel>
Hi everyone. I'm new to this.
<deneel>
Thinking of dual booting Haiku on my main machine .. is it safe?
<Viking668>
Anyhow, the queue.h could be a harder ask. It apparently has nice little juicy things like definitions for TAILQ/STAILQ and I've no idea if the BSD's queue.h has been ported over
<deneel>
I mostly just want minimal setup for a little bit of programming and doc editing, although some degree of multimedia is also nice to have.
<Viking668>
deneel: has your machine got enough space to run a virtual machine of some sort?
<Anarchos>
Begasus: and checkfs finds no error :/
<Viking668>
That's how I'm doing it here.
<Viking668>
fwiw, I allocated 10GB, and only 3.3gb of that is used so far with several packages added.
<deneel>
Viking668: I prefer to install it directly actually. But if it to run it as a vm, currently it's only possible via hyper-v
<Viking668>
huh. Are you on Windows then?
<Viking668>
Host here is Linux, has no trouble running virt-manager (front end for qemu)
<OscarL>
Anarchos: just a hunch... what does "tail -f /var/log/syslog" shows on that machine with continuos HDD activity?
<Viking668>
and haiku works fine on qemu.
<OscarL>
deneel: I have been triple booting Haiku for a very long time. The only unsafe part for me has been having Windows deciding to wipe some of my Haiku partitions in the past :-)
<Viking668>
... ouch.
<Viking668>
I had to recover from that once - that needed me to rebuild a partition table by hand. I wasn't best pleased.
<Viking668>
Windows had rudely nuked two primary partitions and a secondary partition holding two others.
<OscarL>
indeed, last time, I had to dd the range I knew contained my Haiku partition... kept it for years without being able to properly mount it (kept trying every now and then... till miracle! got my data back).
<deneel>
Viking668: Good to know, I do have another proxmox node with some spare space for troubleshooting. I could try there, but it's headless ..
<Viking668>
Ah. I'm running this over a local network, so the speed's bearable.
<Viking668>
i.e vm is on zoom, virt-manager on fatty. They talk to each other fine.
<OscarL>
Anarchos: I mention the syslog thing, because not long ago, I had some really weird HDD activity... turned out media_serve_addon was spamming the syslog continuosly.
<deneel>
OscarL: The plain is to dual boot them under different disk, since I also had some bad experience in the past regarding partition.
<deneel>
So I'd assume it'd be pretty safe.
<OscarL>
yeah... you should have no issues at all with that.
<Viking668>
... except possibly for installing large numbers of Noto fonts. That takes a sizeable amount of drive space, for some reason.
<Viking668>
but that's not boot-related.
<Viking668>
Anyhow, I'm getting tired - nearly midnight here and Tuesday's coming fast.
<OscarL>
even in the same disk, (always talking about MBR style partitions)... if you stick to just primary partitions, Windows usually leave those along. More complicated setups with many logical parts... do not touch Windows disk partition GUI app, and better use DriveSetup or GParted, to be safer :-)
<deneel>
OscarL: Awesome!
<Viking668>
I have managed (very very carefully) to quad-boot Solaris, FreeBSD, OpenBSD and Linux. That was spread over two disks at the time, and I had a separate Windows drive as a rule of thumb.
<Anarchos>
OscarL: turned out noghtin in syslog. Anyway the machine seems correct now (48h non stopped spinning hdd.... i hope it did'nt aged too much)
<Viking668>
For some reason I couldn't get netbsd integrated into the disklabels of the other two.
<Viking668>
anyhow, bye from me...
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<Anarchos>
Begasus: seems ok now...
<dovsienko>
NetBSD and OpenBSD use different incompatible formats for disklabels. I cannot remember which one is the same as FreeBSD.
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<dovsienko>
Linux has some support for BSD disklabels, but it implements one of the formats. when it sees the other on the disk, it tries to "fix" it and it damages the disklabel
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<OscarL>
Anarchos: if it happens again, make sure to check the syslog. if you see lots of "HDA" messages... just kill the media_addon_server.
<dovsienko>
in my experience, the best practice seems to keep each OS to its native disk partitioning format
<Anarchos>
OscarL: ok thanks
<Viking667>
Yah. I'd have to agree with that
<OscarL>
Seems Python 3.13.0 release got pushed back a week. I can go to bed now then :-)
<Viking667>
Mostly I run things in VMs now, but this was all done in the days before virtual machines were really a thing on x86 - so I had only spinning platters to help me out.
<OscarL>
See you around folks. Have a good one!
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<Viking667>
Anyhow, I should really depart too - good morftervening from this side of the world.
<dovsienko>
bye
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<Hanicef[m]>
is gemini://lofi.haiku-os.org/ an official gemini capsule?
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<Hanicef[m]>
it seems so at least, considering it uses the official domain, but asking just in case
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<Begasus>
k, switching drives isn't an option it seems also, this one using NVMe and the other one SSD (no NVMe slot)
<Hanicef[m]>
<Begasus> "k, switching drives isn't an..." <- you mean sata? nvme also uses ssd for storage. :)
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<Begasus[m]>
given how flat this one is I doubt they are the same Hanicef :)
<Hanicef[m]>
i was mainly asking if you were using sata ssd or if it uses some other port standard, since that can matter in certain cases.
<Hanicef[m]>
ssd really only defines the storage type, not how it communicates with the hardware.
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<Begasus[m]>
not that much into fidling with hardware anymore, just did some googling about it
<Begasus[m]>
me getting old(er) :)
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<coolcoder613>
Can anyone help me with Haiku API usage? https://0x0.st/XgLm.py the `content` BTextView is not taking up all the available space (I'm using BGridLayout)
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<Anarchos>
coolcoder613: tow remarks : you should use "new BTextView" instead of "...=BTextView" (allocation on heap are better than on stack) . And you should use Layout as in : "https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/api/layout_intro.html"
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<Hanicef[m]>
<Anarchos> "coolcoder613: tow remarks : you..." <- python doesn't have `new`, it allocates everything on the heap by default.
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<HaikuUser>
Hello
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<Morgul>
Is it normal that one of my CPU cores is around 100% use all the time? I'm on real hardware here
<Morgul>
Bare metal
<dovsienko>
usually it is not. some buggy drivers do that
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<Morgul>
the kernel team is using it, a thread called bge intr handler
<Morgul>
and I'm using beta 5
<dovsienko>
bge stands for "Broadcom Gigabit Ethernet", looks like you have a NIC that does not work well in this version
<Morgul>
ah, sorry, on WebPositive it's alt-arrows, it works that way
<Morgul>
so I guess then that it's an issue from Vision, which uses that for something else (changing open channel)
<Morgul>
and an inconsestency on Terminal, which uses Control key instead
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<Morgul>
how many GB does the Haiku repo takes nowadays? I could try to fix Vision myself and send a patch
<dovsienko>
yes, it would make more sense to use the same hotkeys everywhere
<Morgul>
I have 11 free GB here on Haiku's partition
<dovsienko>
714MB, if measured on a git clone in Linux
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<Morgul>
ah, cool! I'll try to do a git clone then
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<Morgul>
oops, Haiku isn't resolving host names to me anymore... it might be either because of my tests with the network cable and enabling/disabling the network interfaces. Maybe another bug
<dovsienko>
possibly. this would require exact steps to reproduce reliably
<Morgul>
the network interface in use appears to be in "configuring" state... that's what is shown when left clicking the network icon
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<dovsienko>
there are various spaces for improvement, so switching the network card could be an easy way to focus on other problems that could be solved
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<Morgul>
yeah, but I just want to contribute to Haiku, I don't neet it as my OS
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<Morgul>
so I'll help in however I can, even if it's just bug reporting
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<Morgul>
do you know if Vistion saves chat history?
<Morgul>
ah, yes, I found the setting for that
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<Morgul>
and I copy pasted the history just in case... I'll save it myself. If Vision doesn't automatically store everything previouosly after enabling the setting, that's another easy possible UX improvement contribution to make
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<Monni>
Begasus...
<Morgul>
because it makes no sense that the setting is disabled, and once you want the history saved and change it, it doesn't save anything. If that happens I can make it do it perhaps
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<Morgul>
I'll restart and test more, talk another time!
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<Morgul>
hi, I already found out how to reproduce getting the netowrk interface stuck at the "configuring" state, where name resolution doesn't work
<Morgul>
the procedure is, with a few seconds delay on each step: 1) disconnect the network cable, 2) disable that network interface, 3) enable the network interface, 4) connect the network cable again
<Peppersawce>
Morgul on Chat-O-Matic Alt+Up or down changes the channel btw
<Morgul>
@Peppersawce oh, Vision does that too... then there's no need for alt + left to do that also... it's equivalent to alt + up, but alt + right does nothing that I can identify, it's not equivalent to alt + down
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<Peppersawce>
icic, well, good luck :)
<Morgul>
thank you!
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<Skipp_OSX>
When you are focused on the text view in Vision Alt+left/right are used to go forwards back in text, but Vision uses those to expand/contract the channel list
<Skipp_OSX>
So try not being focused on the text view and then using Alt+right
<Morgul>
I don't know how to remove te focus from the text view... the cursor keeps binking there
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<Skipp_OSX>
HaikuUser is me, testing...
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<Morgul>
ah, okay, Skipp_OSX
<Skipp_OSX>
Click on the Window list and you'll get focus off text view, it works, actually even if you are focused on the window list Alt+left/right still expands/unexpands channel list since it overrides the shortcut.
<Morgul>
hmmmm, yes, clicking there removes the focus from the text field... but then pressing Alt+right does nothing, and pressing Alt-left changes to the previous channel (or the main messages from the server)
<Morgul>
yes, exactly, it still does that, Alt+left does... Alt+right does nothing
<Skipp_OSX>
it should expand/contract the channel list item
<Morgul>
Ah... I see
<Morgul>
I confirm... alt+left contracts, and alt+right expands it
<Skipp_OSX>
ok yes, then all is well.
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<Morgul>
then it shouldn't do it when the focus is on the text entry field
<Skipp_OSX>
At this time that is not the case, the app shortcut always wins
<Morgul>
don't you think? So it can instead move to the next or previous word
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<Morgul>
yes, but I mean maybe I can provide a patch to fix that behavior
<Skipp_OSX>
So even when focused it expands/contracts the channel list, although this annoys me since I use Alt+left/right all the time in text views.
<Skipp_OSX>
Maybe... yeah
<Morgul>
yeah, me too, it's very common usage for me to move between words
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<dovsienko>
Morgul: try opening a bug report about the Broadcom driver spinning on the CPU with detailed diagnostics, this way other people will know to avoid that particular chip or maybe will fix it eventually
<Skipp_OSX>
So it would be very similar code in Vision if you wanted to override the arrow keys only when focused on the BTextView at the bottom, the input text view.
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<Morgul>
okay, I need to restart so Haiku can resolve host names again and I can open that webpage
<Morgul>
brb
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<Morgul>
back
<Morgul>
okay, thank you Skipp_OSX, so maybe I could do it like that on Vision
<dovsienko>
I tried to follow that page several times, but the only time managed to do it when people on the channel explained what to do
<dovsienko>
AFAIR, buildtools should be omitted when building 64-bit Haiku from 64-bit Haiku
<Anarchos>
Morgul: you need buildtools for 64 bits version
<dovsienko>
this page is another potential place for improvements
<dovsienko>
a step-by-step HOWTO, even better a script
<Morgul>
ah, okay, thank you
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<Morgul>
oh, another place where alt+left and alt+right have undesired begavior: on form fields in WebPositive webpages. What it does is going backward and forward in history
<Morgul>
on the browsing history of the tab/window
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<Morgul>
on the URL bar it works as expected: going to the previous or next word
<Peppersawce>
Ok, so yeah I guess that's what I'm missing
<Begasus>
on my fork I added a local upstream to haikuports over https (not ssh) so I don't accedentely push to master without PR :)
<Peppersawce>
Neat :)
<Begasus>
OscarL uses it different, but this works for me :)
<Morgul>
I created also the bug for name resolution failing to work after disabling and re-enabling the network interface with cable disconnected: https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/19139
<Begasus>
thanks for reporting Morgul
<kallisti5[m]>
I need some ✨️speed tests✨️
<Morgul>
you're welcome
<kallisti5[m]>
Please try downloading this url and let me know your country / speed
<Morgul>
but from Haiku or Linux? It won't be the same
<kallisti5[m]>
anywhere is fine. I'm more interested in getting a good geographic picture
<Morgul>
okay
<kallisti5[m]>
Considering putting haiku + haikuports behind a cdn. I realized bunny.net's offerings were actually cheap enough that we could use them without much pain
<Morgul>
the one from S3 is faster: 2024-09-30 18:43:01 (8.64 MB/s) - ‘haiku-r1~beta5_hrev58181-1-x86_64.hpkg.1’ saved [38874005/38874005]
<kallisti5[m]>
Begasus_32: so.. 14MB/s from Wasabi, 5-6MB/s from b-cdn?
<kallisti5[m]>
hm
<kallisti5[m]>
b-cdn should be offering up local regional datacenters. Maybe pull a few times and see if b-cdn speeds up
<Begasus[m]>
kallisti5First one was in VM, second one on 32bit wired (32bit) same link
<kallisti5[m]>
ah, ok. 14MB/s is pretty awesome
<nipos>
BunnyCDN is great, also used them for my own services when the origin was still behind my private DSL, but won't this cause huge costs considering the amount of traffic the repo is serving?
<nipos>
Oh and they offer a setting that tries first if a file is cached at one specific BunnyCDN datacenter before loading from the Wasabi origin. Maybe that will further speed up downloads for files that were downloaded at least once before (and not once per region)
<nipos>
The price for 5 TB is $50. Still affordable somehow, but I feel like we should really make more use of mirrors offered by volunteers. Scaling up with a paid CDN will hurt at some point.
<kallisti5[m]>
nipos: i'd love mirrors... however we have to get repo signatures in haiku / haikuports first
<Begasus>
kallisti5[m], now make a Windows installer and I'm happy :D
<kallisti5[m]>
The risk of having 5,10 mirrors, any number of which could tamper with our software is too great
<Monni>
Begasus: What should I do if haikuporter complains that recipe creates both static and shared library?
<nipos>
I already use a mirror. I just trust them, Haiku doesn't have any security anyways lol
<Begasus>
Monni, nuke the static one
<Begasus>
configure script?
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<Begasus>
if so, "--disable-static" should do the trick (mostly)
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<Begasus>
iirc there is still 1 or 2 packages providing both that I couldn't fix
<Begasus>
Monni, checked the source if static can be disabled?
<Begasus>
something like BUILD_STATIC=OFF ?
<Begasus>
or BUILD_SHARED=ON that disables the static one?
<nipos>
The volume tier seems even more affordable. And oh well, I get $145 for only 4TB now with traffic shared equally on each region. Looks like they only consider the cheapest one when they compare with other providers down on the page
<kallisti5[m]>
nipos: yeah, volume tier is definitely what we would go with
<kallisti5[m]>
though... we could just abuse digital ocean 🤔
<kallisti5[m]>
wait.. nevermind. DO is only 1TiB egress
<nipos>
We already do, I think?
<kallisti5[m]>
yeah. We use digital ocean, but not their object storage
<nipos>
eu.hpkg.haiku-os.org points to the DigitalOcean IP
<kallisti5[m]>
sooooo... telnyx is unlimited egress
<kallisti5[m]>
but they charge per million api requests
<nipos>
What exactly are you looking for? CDN or new storage provider?
<kallisti5[m]>
Finding a cheap combination of both :-)
<nipos>
For storage, you could rent a cheap Hetzner dedicated server, install Minio on it and get unlimited traffic at 1Gbit/s and unlimited requests and such. But in some parts of the world, the connection may be not that great
<kallisti5[m]>
We were on hetzner years ago. They were pretty ok, but the bandwidth outside of EU was bad
<kallisti5[m]>
USA and other locations would pull 200-300KiB/s max
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<nipos>
You can retry if that's still true by downloading something from the tnonline mirror. It's hosted at Hetzner in their Finland datacenter
<kallisti5[m]>
anyway, bbl. I gotta get back to real work ™️
<Monni>
Begasus: Building static library can't be disabled in CMakeLists.txt ... I will upload the recipe soon to GitHub, so you can check it if you want...
<Morgul>
for Linux it gives so many requiremens... while for Haiku it doesn't give all of them. For Linux it says: sudo apt install git nasm bc autoconf automake texinfo flex bison gawk build-essential unzip wget zip less zlib1g-dev libzstd-dev xorriso libtool gcc-multilib python3
<Skipp_OSX>
I mean you should be using beta5 at this point not beta4... but the python error is because you have to install the blessed python version that includes the symlink or create the symlink yourself.
<Morgul>
I installed nasm on my own also from HaikuDepot, also jam (it makes no sense to have to compile it, the one modified for Haiku should be the one that one packaged for Haiku, no?)
<Skipp_OSX>
I don't think you need build tools if you're building Haiku on Haiku, but you do need the packages for gcc and other stuff, and those packages are all on beta5 now and we've turned off beta4.
<Morgul>
yes, I'm on beta5, but with no development tools, it seems. Maybe when I installed beta4 I choose to not install them? Was there such an option?
<Skipp_OSX>
nah, you just need whatever devel package e.g. haiku-devel
<Morgul>
as I said, I upgraded from within beta4 and I had no development tools installed
<Morgul>
ah, okay! The documentation should say it!
<Morgul>
hmmm, I don't find it on HaikuDepot
<Skipp_OSX>
haiiku_devel prob
<Skipp_OSX>
haiku_devel
<Morgul>
it's not there, maybe wih pkgman?
<Skipp_OSX>
should be...
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah it's there, haiku_devel not haiku-devel
<Morgul>
okay, it was pkgman install haiku_devel
<Morgul>
the documentation should say it
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah that works, not sure why it wasn't showing in the 'Depot
<Skipp_OSX>
Yeah, docs are a bit out of date I guess.
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<Morgul>
is it really needed to have Python 3.10 for compiling Haiku? the inclided Python 3.9 won't do?
<Morgul>
or is it simply because there was no link or whatever making "python3" commend open the intalled Python 3.9?
<Skipp_OSX>
you need to have the python symlink, and python 3.10 is the blessed version that gives it to you, but you can compile with python 3.9 if you have the symlink
<waddlesplash>
or just tell configure script what Python to use
<Morgul>
oh, I see. Not a good enough resason, but okay
<Skipp_OSX>
correct, it's the "python" symlink that you need
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<Morgul>
thank you, Skipp_OSX
<Skipp_OSX>
no prob
<Skipp_OSX>
I ran into same issue, what do you mean I need python? I have python... does it need python 2, no... does it need a specific version of 3? Oh ok now I see, yeah that.
<Anarchos>
Begasus hdd finally stopped spinning for nothing :)
<Anarchos>
if i want global shell variables/alias exported for the whole machine, should i put them in ~/.bash_profile or in ~/config/settings/profile ?
<Skipp_OSX>
I believe ~/config/settings/profile is the standard place we put them
<Skipp_OSX>
We try ajrd not to have dotfiles in your home directory like Linux savages do.
<Skipp_OSX>
It's funny when you realize that dotfiles originated in Unix because K&R took a shortcut to hide the file from ls if first character was a . instead of looking for . and .. specifically and then that took off and became a "feature
<dovsienko>
I put mine to /etc/profile.d/local.sh just because it is easier to remember for a Linux barbarian like myself
<Skipp_OSX>
drooling with his club dragging behind him from his cave
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<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX i have this strange package manager putting things in .bash_profile... i will cut all and put it in ~/config/settings/profile !
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<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX i knew the history of dot files :)
<Morgul>
with this error: Fatal Python error: PyEval_SaveThread: the function must be called with the GIL held, but the GIL is released (the current Python thread state is NULL)
<Morgul>
I wanted to say my Python* application
<Skipp_OSX>
*shrug*
<Morgul>
I installed PyGame from HaikuDepot, and it installs it for Python 3.10
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<Morgul>
it fails when doing pygame.display.set_mode()
<Skipp_OSX>
makes sense
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah which is probably a bug
<Morgul>
I tried other screen sizes and options, but it fails each time
<Morgul>
without a window there's not much benefit to PyGame :)
<Skipp_OSX>
right
<Skipp_OSX>
maybe it works from command line?
<Morgul>
yeah, from command line it could be used for importing and exporting images, for example
<Skipp_OSX>
(sometimes that works as the environment it is looking for is setup but idk in this instance)
<Morgul>
but I use it as GUI
<Skipp_OSX>
right I mean does the game load if you run it from the command line?
<Morgul>
ah, yes, it has a command line interface also, and that one works well
<Morgul>
but from the command line it doesn't use PyGame
<Morgul>
if you want me to try PyGame without windows, maybe I can
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<Morgul>
it can load and do some things, but the script that uses it doesn't work as I expected. Maybe it's something I modified or it's a Haiku only issue... I'll have to investigate it from Linux
<Morgul>
I bet that PyGame works from the command line without issue, and some of its functions when interacting with something else that's not Python (such as SDL) it's where it crashes
<Morgul>
by calling PyEval_InitThreads() instead of Py_Initialize() or vice-versa
<Morgul>
that's right before calling PyEval_SaveThread()
<Morgul>
they do that on the Python version they include with their project
<Morgul>
so it might not even be an issue from PyGame, but from Python 3.10 that Haiku has, at least
<Morgul>
By the way, when trying my application from the command line with its console interface (just basic standard input and output), I saw a curious difference with Linux and even Windows behavior... when pressing Enter to pass the command to the application, on Haiku that doesn't print a new line
<Morgul>
so messages printed righ afterwards by my application can appear on the same line, right after the command entered by the user
<Morgul>
I can't know if that's intended behavior or some console bug
<Morgul>
oh, and building Haiku's buildtools has failed for me, with this error: gengtype.cc:(.text+0x1fba): undefined reference to `lexer_line'
<Morgul>
I remember it was way easier to build for Haiku in the past, I guess it was back when I used the 32 bit version
<Morgul>
but it's okay, I won't give up
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<Anarchos>
i am asked for a documentation link according to which : execve can not be called from non main thread. I know where in team.cpp this behaviour is enforced, but do we have a doc about that ?
<PulkoMandy>
Anarchos: I think not being able to call execve from other threads is a bug? But I find no ticket. I think a trac ticket wculd be the best way to "document" it?
<PulkoMandy>
Also posix says the new thread id/pid after execve is not specified, so I think your patch would be fine, there is no need to reuse the main thread id (but there could be other problems, with the stack size for example)
<PulkoMandy>
No, that's from BeOS, we are not BeOS
<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy yes i was told about the stack size by waddlesplash, but i was not skilled enough to finish the patch.
<PulkoMandy>
Yes, maybe I'm not either, it is not easy
<PulkoMandy>
I'll reopen the ticket
<waddlesplash>
PulkoMandy: ultimately having glanced at the thing Anarchos was trying to do, I don't understand how this is a problem in the first place
<Anarchos>
i will give the source code as doc for this behaviour then :)
<waddlesplash>
PulkoMandy: i.e. the application in question should just fork then exec as normal
<waddlesplash>
so it should not need to exec from a non-main thread
<Anarchos>
it was not a fork/exec setup :/
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<Anarchos>
rather spawn_thread/execve which leads to execve from a non main trhead in same process
<PulkoMandy>
waddlesplash: regardless of this specific app, I think we should have a ticket to track this. Maybe it's not really needed by anything, and in that case it can be a low priority thing, but still, I see nothing in posix that allows us to not handle this case
<OscarL>
Morgul: We have some locking/forking/spawn/threading related issues with Python on Haiku.
<OscarL>
Morgul: Some are problems with SDL (usually errors around OpenGL code), deadlocks with tk/tkinter (prolly because our tk uses some "weird/awesome" SDL backend).
<OscarL>
Some because our Python port is not fully adapted to how Haiku does stuff (or how Python's stdlib expects it to behave).
<OscarL>
Besides the Python interpreters themselves, many python modules need patches to run well on Haiku (most upstreams just ever test only on Win/Lin/Mac, so we're on our own).
<OscarL>
Morgul: Patches, welcomed, specially considering that the guy that is lately doing the packaging for our Python's... is kind of an idiot that barely knows what he's doing (read: /me).
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* Anarchos
still crashed his keyboard with "usb error control pipe 21: timeout waiting for queued request to complete ; usb error hub 20: error updating port status" in syslog
* Anarchos
can just reboot in t his case
<Morgul>
I see, OscarL, thanks for explaining
<OscarL>
waddlesplash: hi. I switched to master on both 32 and 64 bits. The "waiting for build package..." issue didn't appearted again so far on 64 bits, but did two times on 32 bits. In any case, situation seems improved, because it was driving me crazy on beta5 (specially on 32 bits).
<waddlesplash>
interesting
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<Morgul>
I know much less than you surely OscarL, haha. The most complex thing I did with Python was managing to compile and have mostly working a newer version of Python for DOS, up to 2.6, but not all modules would work
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<OscarL>
Morgul: no hay problema. Just keep in mind that lots (most?) of the issues you'll find yet unfixed in Haiku can be explained by: "too few people / too much to do". Lots of "corner cases" (even some wider areas) that have seen little or narrow use only, thus bugs can and do lurk in those shadows, unknowingly.
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<OscarL>
Morgul: every bit of help counts, so either by sending patches, or by filing bug reports (Haiku/HaikuPorts or on upstream-projects), you'll be "doing your part" already :-)
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<HaikuUser>
nickname how to?
<OscarL>
HaikuUser: type /nick YourCoolNewName
<OscarL>
that should work for this session. For a more permanent solution, you need to change the default aliases/usernames on your IRC client.
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<LorqVonRay>
:)
<janking>
thanks OscarL
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<OscarL>
No problem :-)
<Morgul>
okay, OscarL. I'll eventually learn how to build Python from source and then I'll try to see if I can get it fixed
<Morgul>
but for now, not even Haiku's buildtolls build for me :( It fails with undefined reference errors
<Morgul>
n/ld: gengtype-parse.cc:(.text+0x1a02): undefined reference to `yylex(char const**)'
<Morgul>
u/bin/ld: gengtype-parse.cc:(.text+0x1a4d): undefined reference to `lexer_line'
<OscarL>
can't help there, never ever used tne buildtools. I just disable the one bit of Haiku that needs it (32 bits bootloader) instead.
<Morgul>
oh.. how could I do that?
<Morgul>
I actually don't need to build the whole Haiku, only single applications. Vision in particular I wanted
<OscarL>
That means I can't build full .iso images, but good enough to build haiku.hpkg and individual targets.
<OscarL>
You need to comment out line 21 in a file that I'll link soon :-)
<Morgul>
hmmm... maybe only the keyboard is what stopped working, now that I think
<Morgul>
ohhhh, that's awesome! :D
<Morgul>
thank you! very good idea!
<OscarL>
if you want to build the "whole system" (package)... that would be something like: `jam -q -j4 @nightly-raw haiku.hpkg`
<OscarL>
change -j4 for a number of threads according to your CPU.
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<OscarL>
https://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/get-source-git/ could use a re-write (or complemented by a simpler version). I guess part of the problem is... once you "got it", hard to see what it is so difficult about it.
<dovsienko>
exactly
<dovsienko>
Morgul: improving this page could be a good first contribution
<OscarL>
too bad that I suck at making thing simpler docs, as evidenced by the "success" of my "how to work with .patchset files" guide :-D
<Morgul>
dovsienko I'll consider updating it once I discover something that could be more clear and I am sure I am correct about it
<dovsienko>
one paragraph at a time is not a bad rate, writing a book in three volumes is not an expectation
<OscarL>
you can build it without using Haikuporter (I guess it might be simpler at first... or more complex, that depends on how your brain works)....
<OscarL>
but you will deginitively need to at least apply the corresponding .patchset, and use config/make options at last similar to what the recipes do.
<OscarL>
s/deginitively/definitively/
<OscarL>
39°C and we aren't even in October yet... /me melts away.
<OscarL>
later folks... I'll try to catch some cool breeze or something. Outside. Jikes!
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<wuffi600>
hi all
<erysdren>
hello
<Morgul>
good night, OscarL
<wuffi600>
Is there a way to use software updater, haiku depot, ... with a http_proxy?
<Skipp_OSX>
just missed him
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<dovsienko>
wuffi600: does setting the environment variable HTTP_PROXY or ALL_PROXY do what you need?
<Peppersawce>
Yamagi Quake II's package says (C) Openarena team, I don't think that's quite right
<Morgul>
okay, Vision is not even on Haiku repository xd it's on GitHub separately, it seems
<Skipp_OSX>
correct, Vision is a 3rd party app, and was never imported into Haiku tree
<Skipp_OSX>
We should actually be exporting more apps to GitHub, they don't need to be in the tree anymore, we can include a package
<Morgul>
Peppersawce maybe back then it was? Openarena sounds like the open-source Quake III
<Peppersawce>
nah that's ioquake3
<Peppersawce>
openarena is like freedoom
<Morgul>
ah, I see
<Morgul>
how can I know the category for a package? for Vision
<Morgul>
HaikuDepot doesn't seem to display that
<Peppersawce>
haiku-apps or net-im I think
<Morgul>
it's because I'm looking for it's recipe. Recipes seems to be sorted by category
<Peppersawce>
It's in haiku-apps
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<Morgul>
okay, thank you
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<Peppersawce>
They are, I'm not an expert on how they're sorted, if they're native they tend to be in haiku-something
<Peppersawce>
If not usually it's based on how gentoo portage classified them
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<wuffi600>
dovsienko: unfortunately no. maybe does not use proxy for DNS.
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<Morgul>
I see, Peppersawce, thsnk you
<Peppersawce>
yw :)
<Morgul>
good night, people, it was nice having your help. I'm amazed how many people are here. In the past there weren't that many
<Morgul>
I'll continue another day, to try to build Vision and improve upon it
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<dovsienko>
wuffi600: let me check the source code
<augiedoggie>
you might be able to do it with the proxychains_ng tools
<dovsienko>
I could not find anything immediately useful in the source code
<wuffi600>
dovsienko: if've set variables to use socks5h:// and tested with wget give error message "Error parsing proxy URL socks5h://127.0.0.1:1080. Unsopported scheme.". With http:// wget works perfectly but HaikuDepot or SoftwareUpdater unfortunately do not.
<wuffi600>
dovsienko: I've got it working! The trick is: install package "proxychains_ng" from haikudepot, create file ~/proxychains4.conf with only 3 lines in it ("proxy_dns", "[ProxyList]", "socks5 192.168.5.5 1080"), then run "proxychains4 -f ~/proxychains4.conf HaikuDepot". Works great!
<dovsienko>
it would be useful to add this to some page somewhere so other users could follow
<dovsienko>
well done sorting this out on your own
<wuffi600>
SoftwareUpdater also works with proxychains4
<wuffi600>
Where would be a good place to post the hint for others?
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<coolcoder613>
Why does my BTextView go to the middle and not take up all the available space when I do MakeEditable(false)? It works fine when I do it from a button handler!
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<OscarL>
coolcoder613: I can't offer any help, sorry. Maybe try asking humdinger when/if you see him around?
<OscarL>
coolcoder613: only comment I can give you, if you share your code, make sure others can run it. That would include poiting out from where they could get that "gusmobile" Python module that is nowhere to be found on PyPI, AFAICS.
<OscarL>
better add that as a doc string to your .py file.
<OscarL>
coolcoder613: just in case... I hope I don't ever sound too harsh. If I do, please consider that my "English" is just terrible, and that the least thing I'd want is to discourage you from the awesome things you do :-)