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<Begasus>
morning peeps
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<jmairboeck>
Good morning Begasus!
<Begasus>
morning jmairboeck
<Begasus>
guess you saw my message yesterday :)
<jmairboeck>
I read your message in the logs yesterday. I'll take a look at guile again this weekend.
<Begasus>
+1
<jmairboeck>
I was awake, but at work, so I didn't have IRC running :-)
<Begasus>
got some further adding -lgettextlib in CPPFLAGS but failed further on
<Begasus>
np :)
<jmairboeck>
with guile?
<Begasus>
yes
<Begasus>
ps 32bit, 64bit seems fine
<jmairboeck>
I googled the error message, and the problem seems to be some failing autoconf checks with malloc. The easiest solution is probably to just remove them in configure.ac.
<matthewcroughan>
I think I'd rather die than retire
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<matthewcroughan>
Retirement and pension seems like something only the current older generation will get to experience, at least from my perspective
<Begasus>
each his own matthewcroughan :)
<MonniTheCat>
I have earned a lot more since I retired... lol...
<Begasus>
I hope not matthewcroughan, for me it's nice
<matthewcroughan>
Is that just because you're free to work for anyone on anything?
<Begasus>
for me, I can spend my time the way I want it
<matthewcroughan>
I already have that, I just don't have the passive income that a retirement gives
<matthewcroughan>
So a few swiss friends argued I will not be in a good place by the time I'm old :D
<MonniTheCat>
Begasus: dogs disagree... they want all your time ;)
<matthewcroughan>
I have a few HAM Radio friends who are retired, and they say it's like groundhog day, and a living hell
<Begasus>
some do MonniTheCat :P
<matthewcroughan>
So retirement hits different for different people I suppose
<Begasus>
they should get a hobby :)
<matthewcroughan>
They have a hobby! Radio!
<MonniTheCat>
Begasus: I always have to lift our dog while watching TV... Doesn't want to jump up even though she can...
<Begasus>
dan't say my live is a living hell :)
<Begasus>
s/dan't/can't
<matthewcroughan>
My haiku question remains unanswered, are there alternative window managers or DEs?
<matthewcroughan>
And if there were, would this be something Haiku people dislike, since they want a unified one?
<MonniTheCat>
Begasus: s/live/life/ ;)
<Begasus>
don't think there is, but I'm no master on the subject
<Begasus>
bugger ..
<matthewcroughan>
I personally want to use a lot of the same programs I use on Linux, and just want to swap out the kernel
<Begasus>
heh
<Begasus>
well ... for KDE it's almost possible to run all their applications on Haiku
<matthewcroughan>
Oh that's interesting, yeah
<matthewcroughan>
I just use sway and various terminal stuffs on Linux
<Begasus>
not that all are in the depot yet :)
<matthewcroughan>
Though I really like the Haiku email stuff
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<Begasus>
fighting with kwallet atm, trying to disable X11 globally
<MonniTheCat>
We port/compile a lot of Terminal stuff as long as it doesn't require major rewrite...
<matthewcroughan>
Yeah I saw
<zard>
matthewcroughan: Nice, I use sway too :)
<matthewcroughan>
I was just talking to a dolphin emulator developer who knows Haiku because it fails to compile on Haiku, would be interested in working on that once I get a bit deeper in
<zard>
But, I doubt Haiku supports alternative DEs
<matthewcroughan>
It's issues like that, that I think will be able to teach me more about CPP
<Begasus>
Dolphin is already around matthewcroughan?
<matthewcroughan>
zard: you use Sway on Haiku?
<Begasus>
Hi zard
<zard>
No :P. On Linux
<matthewcroughan>
Begasus: Oh, it is? So someone ported it already?
<zard>
Hello Begasus :)
<Begasus>
23.08.5 has been around for a while, did some work and published the 24.08.0 (update should follow shortly) a while ago
<Begasus>
man, distracted again ... should follow shortly * 24.08.3 is in the pipeline
<Anarchos>
Begasus: 20y left...
<matthewcroughan>
By Dolphin, I meant the gamecube emulator, not the KDE file browser
<Begasus>
almost there then Anarchos :)
<Anarchos>
Begasus: i am only 45 you know
<Begasus>
ah, can't tell there
<Begasus>
kiddo :)
<MonniTheCat>
I'm 45 too... Not a kiddo ;)
<Begasus>
oldest daughter turns 40 in 2 years (almost)
<MonniTheCat>
I will be 46 in few months...
<matthewcroughan>
Anyone into plaintext accounting here?
<matthewcroughan>
Wondering if hledger is ported
<MonniTheCat>
If something is ported, pkgman should find it...
<matthewcroughan>
I only have Haiku on a 32 bit laptop without working WiFi, I need to put it on an x230
<matthewcroughan>
But I also wanted to play with RedoxOS, which I thought the x230 would be better suited to
<matthewcroughan>
Which is the best USB wifi dongle to get working with Haiku? Or better yet, how can I steal drivers from BSD to use the USB wifi that I have already?
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<MonniTheCat>
Most of my hardware is unsupported... network adapter works for a while, then KDLs... But Haiku does boot with VESA driver, so I get 2/3 of the screen displayed ;)
<matthewcroughan>
I have a RTL8188EU USB wifi thingy that doesn't do anything when plugged into Haiku
<matthewcroughan>
Feels like we can steal that driver
<MonniTheCat>
Stealing from FreeBSD is the easiest, if there isn't already one...
<matthewcroughan>
All I get when I plug it in, is KERN: usb hub 29: port 6: new device connected nothing more
<matthewcroughan>
is there a way to increase syslog verbosity?
<MonniTheCat>
For some USB stuff, I had to add the device IDs, because some of the adapters didn't use the expected ones...
<matthewcroughan>
add USB device IDs to the drivers in C?
<matthewcroughan>
Why is it that drivers are copy-pasted from BSD and not Linux? What makes it more popular to do it from BSD? Is Haiku structured more like a BSD?
<MonniTheCat>
Linux is also based on BSD, even though it was long time ago... Linux still had BSD compatibility layer, just like Haiku has...
<matthewcroughan>
I know that BSD copy-pastes from Linux a lot, at least for some things like supporting new USB devices
<matthewcroughan>
FreeBSD in particular
<MonniTheCat>
Linux has a lot more users and developers than FreeBSD, OpenBSD and NetBSD together...
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<MonniTheCat>
Some people might claim *BSD is prehistoric, but there has been some activity in last few years... after being pretty dormant for at least 10 years...
<MonniTheCat>
A lot of Linux code have GNU licenses and that's something any project should avoid at all cost...
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<Hanicef[m]>
<MonniTheCat> "Linux is also based on BSD, even..." <- no, it's not. it implemented some extensions that were ported from bsd, but it was written from scratch.
<Hanicef[m]>
otherwise, it wouldn't be possible for it to be licensed under lgpl, since bsd is licensed under the bsd license
<zard>
MonniTheCat: Hmm, what are the disadvantages of GNU license?
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<MonniTheCat>
Hanicef[m]: My cousin wrote the first version of Linux and the kernel...
<Hanicef[m]>
so, your cousin is linus torvalds?
<MonniTheCat>
Hanicef[m]: Yup...
<matthewcroughan>
Ah right, the licensing thing
<matthewcroughan>
That's why I want to use Nix to make Haiku easy to build from source and reproducible, then I can use all the GNU licensed stuff I want without caring about licensing, because I can just reproduce it locally
<matthewcroughan>
I don't care about licenses.
<MonniTheCat>
Most of people don't care about licensing... unless they need to "reuse" some existing code instead of rewriting from scratch...
<Hanicef[m]>
for personal use, it's fine, but as soon as you publish it, you're in a risky legal situation
<matthewcroughan>
I don't see how it's a risk to publish reproducible instructions
<Hanicef[m]>
not instructions, no, but you can't publish build artefacts
<matthewcroughan>
Right, and that's what source distribution allows you to do (like gentoo)
<matthewcroughan>
just the instructions
<matthewcroughan>
And I think there's a lot of freedom in that
<matthewcroughan>
It's part of the reason I dislike binary distribution
<Hanicef[m]>
i mean, there are pros and cons with both - and i think the biggest benefit of source builds is that it can be optimized for your own system
<matthewcroughan>
Yeah, and Nix has this concept called Binary-Source transparency. Because if you hash the instructions, you can ask a middleman service if the outputs have already been reproduced by someone else, and get the binary that way, without having to build it from source.
<MonniTheCat>
First time I used FreeBSD, it took 7 days to install, because everything had to be bootstrapped from sources... Now with Haiku, I can do same in 4 minutes abd 52 seconds ;)
<MonniTheCat>
s/abd/and/
<matthewcroughan>
TL;DR Of the nix thesis is that binary distribution is an optimization of source distribution.
<Hanicef[m]>
MonniTheCat: i can tell you that those days are long gone, since i can install bsd in about 5 minutes myself
<matthewcroughan>
It works very well, and it means you can trivially set up binary distribution of the source distribution without losing the property of being able to build it from source/modify it
<Hanicef[m]>
yeah, i've heard a lot of good stuff about nixos, but i haven't tried it myself
<matthewcroughan>
But I'm not really here to shill Nix, I just want to port it eventually so I can use it, because I like the above properties
<MonniTheCat>
Hanicef[m]: I installed latest FreeBSD few days ago... It took more than 5 minutes even though I have decently fast PC...
<Hanicef[m]>
i haven't really measured exactly the amount of time it takes, but it doesn't take long
<matthewcroughan>
I have this ancient 32 bit machine here. I want to use a USB wifi dongle with it. I can't because there's no driver. Is there anyone that would like to hack on making that USB wifi work?
<MonniTheCat>
Hanicef[m]: I'm counting the time it takes from booting to fully working installation... With all the necessary applications installed and configured...
<Hanicef[m]>
well, if you're counting more than the os install, then of course your results will vary
<zard>
matthewcroughan: Judging by how busy people tend to be here, probably not...
<zard>
But we do have support for some USB wifi devices already afaik
<zard>
And people have made lists of the ones that are supported somewhere
<Hanicef[m]>
matthewcroughan: i think you need to provide more info on that, check `listusb -v` and tell us the vendor and product of the usb device :)
<MonniTheCat>
Hanicef[m]: With minimal FreeBSD installation (which is quite fast), it doesn't even install package manager, so that has to be installed and configured manually...
<matthewcroughan>
Here's Linux's dmesg output, since the other machine isn't on the network right now for me to get it from haiku
<matthewcroughan>
Maybe there's a minimal diff of someone already adding support for a USB wireless device that I can look at and learn from?
<MonniTheCat>
Seems like only PCI version of 8188 is supported...
<Hanicef[m]>
<matthewcroughan> "https://termbin.com/lwfm" <- not an expert on realtek devices, but it looks like that device is somewhat new?
<matthewcroughan>
I've had it in my drawer for at least 5-6 years :P
<matthewcroughan>
I don't have anything older
<Hanicef[m]>
hence the "not an expert" :P
<Hanicef[m]>
but it might be worth looking into support for that, since that makes it likely that other oses already have drivers for it that can be ported to haiku
<matthewcroughan>
Why do you say only pci is supported when the BSD USB driver is in the tree?
<MonniTheCat>
matthewcroughan: Looking at it right now... Just because it's in the source tree, it doesn't mean the driver is fully working and enabled...
<matthewcroughan>
Awesome, how do we enable it then? :D
<Hanicef[m]>
matthewcroughan: not the same device, this one is a rtl8188eu
<Hanicef[m]>
* is a rtl8188e while the usb is rtl8188eu
<matthewcroughan>
Assuming there's a eu driver in BSD, and I put it into the tree, I wonder if it should be trivial to add support for this
<MonniTheCat>
Hanicef[m]: Might still be compatible.... Like I said earlier, same driver can usually support several similar chipsets...
<matthewcroughan>
Again maybe there's a commit from someone that I can study to see how to add this stuff
<zard>
waddlesplash: Maybe you have an idea of what it would take to make a driver work for a USB WiFi adaptor?
<MonniTheCat>
matthewcroughan: Just needs the glue code for FreeBSD compatibility layer... rest is provided by the FreeBSD driver...
<Anarchos>
MonniTheCat: i saw some new USB generic network driver...
<MonniTheCat>
Anarchos: Back in the early days I was working on USB drivers on Haiku... But that was like 16 years ago...
<Anarchos>
MonniTheCat: i never could grasp all complexity of usb...
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<MonniTheCat>
RTL8188E series should require firmware, but I can't find if it is included with Haiku or not...
<matthewcroughan>
I did the whole "install proprietary firmware" shell script thing
<MonniTheCat>
I can find rtwn-rtl8188eufw.bin file on other operating systems, but not Haiku...
<MonniTheCat>
Tried with both .bin and .ucode extensions ...
<matthewcroughan>
How should that get into Haiku then? Via the install-wifi-firmware.sh?
<matthewcroughan>
And since the syslog doesn't say anything descriptive, how do I know if placing that binary somewhere will do anything?
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<matthewcroughan>
Mika Lindqvist: I actually ran `install-wifi-firmwares.sh` again, and it seems to have made this USB device work
<zard>
Woot!
<MonniTheCat>
<matthewcroughan> "How should that get into Haiku..." <- I would ask waddlesplash ... I think he knows more about the WiFi driver...
<matthewcroughan>
but this card does not seem to be able to see my home AP
<matthewcroughan>
ah nvm.. disabling and reenabling the interface made it show up
<MonniTheCat>
There might be some limitations in the driver, initial versions didn't support for example hot-plugging...
<matthewcroughan>
this thig can just live in the USB socket
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<matthewcroughan>
Works well :)
<matthewcroughan>
I guess I can just have this thing online now, and ssh into it
* Anarchos
must often disable/enable a wifi interface in 'Network preferences' for it to see new SSID
<matthewcroughan>
I don't see a port for Eaglemode ;)
<matthewcroughan>
Seems like a good app to have on Haiku, maybe my first to try to port
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<matthewcroughan>
Does Haiku disable IPv6 by default? I don't have a V6 address although I expect one
<matthewcroughan>
I can't ssh into the haiku machine, even though SSH is enabled, and I set a passwd for the user called user
<augiedoggie_>
PermitRootLogin
<matthewcroughan>
user is root?
<augiedoggie_>
yes, 'user' is UID 0
<matthewcroughan>
damnit
<matthewcroughan>
When I disable ssh from the "Network" menu, the process sshd still lives
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<matthewcroughan>
I guess there is no way to "restart the service"
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<matthewcroughan>
Not having any luck with qemu, it just crashes saying "no renderer found" for qem
<matthewcroughan>
for qemu's sdl graphical frontend *
<matthewcroughan>
Though it does say "OpenGL load add-on: /boot/system/add-ons/x86/opengl/Software Pipe"
<matthewcroughan>
is there a way to make Qemu do everything in software instead of crashing like that?
<matthewcroughan>
Even when I pass -display sdl,gl=off it still tries to use GL and then crashes
<matthewcroughan>
SDL_VIDEODRIVER=software results in Could not initialize SDL(software not available) - exiting
<Begasus>
don't have my scripts around to launch qemu ... has been a while also
<matthewcroughan>
I used -vnc :0 and it seems like qemu works fine on this machine, however I can't get any graphical capabilities on this machine from qemu
<PulkoMandy>
Not really because we don't expose it on the internet. We could change it if we need to
<Anarchos>
ok
<Anarchos>
i consider doing a pull request to make the port of remote_disk_server a parameter : parameter at lauch of the remote_disk_server executable, and in a /home/config/settings/kernel/drivers/kernel/remote_disk_server config file for the virtual/remote_disk filesystem add-on.
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<denis>
hello. I am interested in trying the project but I have had a few problems. It doesn't boot in any hardware I own nor in virtual machines (kvm fx440 and q35 for bios and uefi). Moreover I am interested in knowing the os structure, if the kernel is really just what lives in src/kernel and if it's possible to use vulkan.
<gordonjcp>
denis: it should work in a VM
<gordonjcp>
denis: how are you setting that up?
<denis>
virt-manager, everything standard (even tried hdd as sata instead of scsi) and iso from website
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<HaikuUser2>
l
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<brad0>
I see there is a new VMXNET3 driver, but when I enable the NIC Haiku does not appear to attach a driver. Is the driver not built yet?
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<PulkoMandy>
denis: Yes, the kernel is in src/system/kernel, also check src/add-ons/kernel because a lot of things are in modules (drivers, network stack, ...). And no, no 3d acceleration yet
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<denis>
thank you for your answers!
<denis>
does haiku supports multi-core?
<denis>
and are syscalls the same as linux?
<Anarchos>
denis SMP yes
<Anarchos>
syscalls : no
<Hanicef[m]>
when pushing to gerrit, should the remote branch literally be refs/for/master or should i change it to something else? the docs don't make this entirely clear
<Anarchos>
Hanicef[m] i did netboot:/refs/for/master
<Anarchos>
recently
<Hanicef[m]>
alright, thanks
<Anarchos>
so it will take your local branch and creates the pull request to master.
<Hanicef[m]>
also, what's a recommended topic for sata stuff, if any?
<Anarchos>
driver ?
<Anarchos>
devices ?
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<Hanicef[m]>
not sure, that's why i'm asking
<Hanicef[m]>
maybe devices
<Hanicef[m]>
yeah, let's go with devices
<Anarchos>
Hanicef[m] anyway, if you put the wrong one, maintainers will change it
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<Hanicef[m]>
good to know, but i also hope i don't get it wrong so i don't waste their time :/
<Hanicef[m]>
also, is it normal for counting objects to take a long time on push?
<Hanicef[m]>
ah, it's done
<Hanicef[m]>
Anarchos thanks for your help!
<Anarchos>
Hanicef[m] yes it is
<Anarchos>
what did i miss again ?? ...failed DownloadLocatedFile1 download/gcc_syslibs_devel-5.4.0_2016_06_04-4-x86.hpkg ...
* Anarchos
updates and reboot, no harm to try ...
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