<mps>
you can see how it is done and can adapt it to your case
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<kprasadvnsi[m]>
<mps> "kprasadvnsi: look here how I..." <- Still not clear how can I make a USB disk
<kprasadvnsi[m]>
I can do "run usb_boot" from my current installation of Asahi linux
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<mps>
kprasadvnsi[m]: you have to break u-boot when timeout prompt appears on the screen
<mps>
kprasadvnsi[m]: and if you made distro image you have to use 'dd' command to 'copy' it to usb stick/disk
<mps>
or I don't understand what your 'custom image' means
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<marcan>
asahi-alarm-builder does not build full disk images, it builds partition images and EFI trees
<marcan>
it's intended to be used with the installer, so you'd host the image on an HTTP server and run the installer with a custom bootstrap script pointing to it and whatever installer_data.json you want that has an entry for it
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<mps>
ah, yes, I see now. it is not disk image in usual meaning but compressed content of filesystem
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<kprasadvnsi[m]>
How can I make this usb bootable?
<marcan>
you have to make the partitions yourself. It also expects a specific UUID for the EFI partition so you'll have to set that for things to work properly.
<mps>
kprasadvnsi[m]: I posted above short guide with script for alpine linux. you could adapt it to your preferred distro
<marcan>
then you copy the esp/ stuff to the EFI system partition and dd the root image on the root partition
<marcan>
I want to provide a USB boot option in the near future but it's not done yet
<mps>
marcan: I did already ;) though not for official distro
<mps>
irritating thing is we cannot add wifi firmware for distributable disk image or iso
<marcan>
why is that irritating?
<marcan>
the installer copies that to the ESP anyway
<mps>
well, isn't it
<mps>
yes, installer put it on nmve ESP
<mps>
but those who boot from usb must run script to put firmware on this usb disk
<marcan>
and you get that PARTUUID in the device tree, which you can use to find that ESP in your firmware copy script
<marcan>
the firmware copy script is the distro's responsibility
<marcan>
same as the official image does
<mps>
yes, that way I created this usb image for alpine and wrote short guide
<marcan>
you don't need a guide, your image should do all this automatically on every boot
<marcan>
same as the official one
<mps>
I thought about creating first-run script but have fear some things could go bad for 'who knows' reason and decided to write short instructions for users to this manually
<mps>
don't want to be blamed if someone destroy installation by some unknown reasons
<mps>
though yes, PARTUUID could be used to simplify process for users
<mps>
hm, I don't have '/proc/device-tree/chosen/asahi,efi-system-partition' on my system. does that means I don't have correct or newest dtbs chainloaded
<_jannau_>
it probably means the 1st stage m1n1 was not installed be the installer
<mps>
_jannau_: ah, I upgraded it manually. thanks
<mps>
and 2nd stage also with patched u-boot
<_jannau_>
patched u-boot is only required to boot from specified partition. the device tree property is handled by m1n1
<mps>
_jannau_: I added terminus fonts patches
<Glanzmann>
mps: These are the noted I made to manually install m1n1 with the esp partition. Also note that you need a rust m1n1 and u-boot from the release branch.
<mps>
but I have to find some time to learn better about all this touchpad options
<Glanzmann>
mps: Cool, left right (url back) is the one I miss the most, because sometimes when I give training while I'm traveling, I use macos due to missing camera and microphone support.
<Glanzmann>
mps: I just tried the new config, but I like the old one better. I lost the focus from the browser url field while typing (I select it with ctrl-l). This happened multiple times, with the old config I had no such issue.
<mps>
three fingers swipe left -> previous url, three finger swipe right -> next url
<Glanzmann>
mps: I also tried the two and three finger swipe left/right. But it did not work for me.
<Glanzmann>
But maybe mtrack in Debian is to old.
<mps>
Glanzmann: yes, I also use vimium pluging with a keyboard shorcuts for most controls
<mps>
Glanzmann: I've built mtrack from latest git commit for alpine
<Glanzmann>
I see.
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<Cy8aer[m]>
> three fingers swipe left -> previous url, three finger swipe right -> next url
<Cy8aer[m]>
That is swapping desktops on Gnome42.
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<Cy8aer[m]>
(swapping workspaces, sorry)
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<qazcde[m]>
hey. i want to enable luks encryption on my asahi partion. i am willing to delete everything and reinstall if necessary. i couldn't find any documentation on exactly how that would be possible. can anyone help?
<Glanzmann>
qazcde[m]: Easiest way is if you use the debian live, create the luks partition, create a filesystem, extract arch root fs and make it bootable, if you have never done something like thta it might be challinging and you need one or two days to figure it out.
<qazcde[m]>
if i use debian, wouldn't i have to reinstall once the gpu patch comes out?
<Glanzmann>
qazcde[m]: Nope, you need to upgrade the stub partition, but you have to do that with every other distribution as well.
<Glanzmann>
It might also be possible that we don't need to update the stub for gpu.
<Glanzmann>
qazcde[m]: With the above receipt you can also install every other distribution.
<Glanzmann>
qazcde[m]: That means you could use debian live system to setup arch or whatever distribution you fancy.
<Glanzmann>
The benefit of the debian live is that it has a full featured (bloated) kernel and you can install packages in the ramdisk, so you have all the tools available that you might need.
<qazcde[m]>
<Glanzmann> "qazcde: That means you could use..." <- can i use debian to install asahi as well?
<Glanzmann>
qazcde[m]: Yes, but that requires you to that you understand the Linux on m1 boot chain.
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<xfim>
Hello all. I am evaluating whether to acquire a MAC for data science, having worked with Intel machines always.
<Cy8aer[m]>
qazcde: debian-live? Yes. My documentation is generic until the point "debootstrap..." that is the point where the debian stuff is installed. Every distribution has it's own method to bootstrap itself. For debian it is `debootstrap`. There you need the dist's special know how.
<qazcde[m]>
Glanzmann: then for me that would only be possible if there is a guide or documentation. or else i might brick my computer probably
<Glanzmann>
qazcde[m]: If you can follow the steps of Cy8aer[m] guide: https://g3la.de/hedgedoc/s/MIaCyVv1A# than go with it, if you don't than it is probably better to don't try it.
<xfim>
I'm a happy Gentoo user for more than a decade. I am not fully convinced about the purchase, and right now it depends basically on the ability to run Free software on the mac, that Asahi provides. My question is about "what works". In the Asahi webpage it says that Mac studio is not supported. The point is that having seen all Mac machines, mac Studio is right now the one that would be convenient. So: is it
<xfim>
planned, to support Mac Studio? Are there fundamental differences between the rest of the Macs that make it harder to install / support Mac Studio? Thank you.
<tpw_rules>
yes, it's supported. i think there are some snags wrt the m1 ultra
<tpw_rules>
s/supported/planned/
<Glanzmann>
xfim: But looking at the price tag, you might also want to consider a AMD ryzen which costs less and delivers more. At least I would never buy a studio for that price tag.
<nicolas17>
xfim: I think mac studio with m1 max chip will be supported soon, m1 ultra needs more work
<xfim>
That is interesting, thank you Glanzmann. My main reason to go for such a machine is because I work basically with Bayesian inference, where multiple cores are not a big issue, but a single core speed is crucial. Here is where I have seen that the Mac excels. Am I correct?
<nicolas17>
Glanzmann: what about power use? :P
<nicolas17>
xfim: do you need a ton of RAM?
<j`ey>
xfim: mac studio works decently, just not in the "official" releases
<xfim>
Yes, that is the point, nicholas17. I would like to go for 32 GB
<xfim>
That is why I do not consider the mac mini
<nicolas17>
ah
<j`ey>
im hoping there will be a mac mini with 32G at some point
<nicolas17>
the CPU cores are the same in all M1 chips, the difference is in having more of them, or more RAM, or more memory bandwidth
<xfim>
Wait, I am trying to process the differences with max and ultra....
<nicolas17>
so if it wasn't for RAM, mac mini would be probably fine
<j`ey>
nicolas17: studio still has more cores!
<xfim>
I was looking at the max, that you mention that is the one that is already supported. Is that correct?
<nicolas17>
j`ey: "having more of them" :P
<nicolas17>
j`ey: and xfim said they mostly need single core perf
<j`ey>
nicolas17: im blind
<j`ey>
xfim: the studio, all models are still more WIP than the rest of the models
<xfim>
I would say that the cores is not a big issue. I usually need 4 at the most. Parallelization is not possible in the kind of jobs that I am interested.
<xfim>
But let me go back to the AMD Ryzen - MAC discussion. Do you think that according to my needs an apple purchase is worthwhile?
<xfim>
(If I can abuse a bit more of your time and expertise)
<j`ey>
I guess you have to look at some representitive benchmarks
<xfim>
My overall impression from them, so far j`ey, is that for the single core tasks they are on the same level. Unless a really serious Ryzen is chosen, where then the price becomes less of an issue. So that's why I'm undecided, and I was very curious after Glanzmann went directly to mention the AMD Ryzen. Plus, the challenge of learning and making it work and being able to explain it is also there.
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<j`ey>
Glanzmann went to Ryzen because he also had a threadripper ;)
<Cy8aer[m]>
I guess everyone has his own needs. Yes the m1 stuff is fast but...
<Cy8aer[m]>
the machine, there are also consequences for the software (if you want to use propriate stuff) and - of course - development.
<Cy8aer[m]>
... it is another architecture. Do you need it? I need it because I am sure that in the next 5 years we will have a point where we can find effordable aarch64 systems at cloud and on premise environments. And with it these systems are more power efficient and need less energy for more power. The mbp is ideal to create containers and test k8s stuff for aarch. And I do not like machines which breath anyways. AMD <-> ARM is not only the power of
<Glanzmann>
j`ey: hrhr. I never had a threadripper. But I'm havily invested in ryzens. I have 30 of them.
<Glanzmann>
j`ey: My workstation is the mac mini running Linux.
<Glanzmann>
j`ey: My earlier comment was related that I saw some benchmark studio vs 5950X. The studio lost, but costs at least 1000 EURs more.
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<Glanzmann>
But I was not looking at single thread performance. I think for single thread performance the new intels appear to be the fastest at the moment, but I don't care about that.
<xfim>
That is a very good insight, Cy8aer. Basically this would imply that unless I am interested in experimenting, I should avoid moving to a new architecture. And only in the case that I want to go ahed of the "market" go for it.
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<Glanzmann>
Anyhow, offtopic and I need to hit bed.
<xfim>
Good night, then Glanzmann and thank you for your input. Thank you all, in fact. I am relieved that at least the Mac Studio can be tried. But at the same time, I have more doubts now about whether to make such a move to apple or go for AMD.
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<j`ey>
Glanzmann: oh i thought 5950x was a threadripper, lol, i dont pay much attention ;P
<Cy8aer[m]>
xfim: it is just up to you and your needs. The question is what you expect from the actual implemented parts. I am sitting at the mbp and use it for my daily stuff - if I do not want to listen to music, do something via bluetooth and do not travel (because there is no power management by now). But I have a really fast aarch64 system. If you only need a fast server without a display, a m1 will do. If you want a really faster server, the studio
<Cy8aer[m]>
is great. If you expect great graphics with the studio - that is not implemented by now. If you want to see the implementation grow the actual time is great. If you want out-of-the box it is too early.
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<xfim>
That is precisely my impression, Cy8aer, having immersed in asahi for the last month and having read some tutorials (the gentoo one was very exciting, I have to say, https://blog.devgenius.io/installing-gentoo-linux-in-apple-macbook-pro-m1-49e163534898). But that is precisely my need: I can wait for better display, I can wait for the neural engines to work, and I am ready for a bit of experimentation and
<xfim>
learning. My initial question was about the support for Mac Studio, and you have mentioned that for the M1 max is there, so I would say that after this chat today MAc and Asahi is still in the loop. But I am not yet 100% decided.
<Cy8aer[m]>
Then just try it 😉
<xfim>
Well, that is tempting. And if I go for it, I am sure in the following days I will be appearing here to ask for help. And hopefully also contribute back and encourage other data scientists to make the move. Thank you.
<Cy8aer[m]>
the problem is the time of entry: They build up m2 and I also guess that then there will be another time until the cpus are supported because the SoCs may have new hardware components to be implement it. So: Buy a m1, wait for the m2 or m3? It is an old story too...
<xfim>
Certainly that is also an issue to have in mind. But from what I have read, the M2 is not going to be a big revolution from a performance point of view, and will be more likely focused on efficiency (and adding more CPUs), that, as I have mention, is less relevant for my case. So I am safe here with the M1, I would say.
<Sobek[m]>
xfim : if your workflow is really sensitive to single thread speed I think Apple’s curent micro arch isn’t necessarily the best thing. Apple micro arch is a performance/watt killer, and shines with multi core but the individual core speed is in the x86_64 world.
<Sobek[m]>
It may also depend if you have any interest in macOS. (But you probably aren’t in that case).
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<xfim>
Thank you for your input, Sobek. I need more inputs to make a decision. But I am not far from it. Good night everyone.
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<alyssa>
friendly reminder that #asahi-alt should be used for unsupported distributions~
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<jannau>
the m1 ultra studio is currently more "supported". I don't think anyone has created a dts for the m1 max studio. doing that shouldn't be be a problem even without access to a device
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