marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | "Does XXX work yet?": https://alx.sh/fs | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-alt #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<kidplayer666>
Merry Christmas everyone
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* merry
christmas
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<vadorovsky>
happy holidays everyone!
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<vadorovsky>
somewhat crazy question - I'm about to try out Asahi Gentoo. I'm using Gentoo on other machines with EFI stub, where I'm creating EFI entry for each new kernel with efibootmgr (and removing old ones)
<vadorovsky>
I was wondering if the same is possible on Apple Silicon?
<vadorovsky>
from my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong), uboot is able to just read one EFI file (/boot/efi/EFI/BOOT/BOOTAA64.EFI)
<vadorovsky>
but what's the relation between u-boot and the "startup options" menu on Mac?
<chaos_princess>
you should probably install grub or systemd-boot
<vadorovsky>
I was wondering if there is any sane way to include each kernel as a "startup option" menu entry without using GRUB, but I guess that would require maintaining multiple u-boot copies?
<vadorovsky>
chaos_princess: ok, yeah, I will do that if there is no clear way of using EFI stub
<vadorovsky>
I'm just somehow used to it on my x86_64 machines
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<sven>
it would also require multiple stub partitions since each entry in the menu has to look like a separate macOS installation
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<vadorovsky>
gotcha. alright, I need a bootloader then
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<leio>
well, that was in regards to the relation with the "startup options" Mac menu, I guess
<leio>
if you have it under a single one, then something might be possible like you want, e.g. to have an option with different kernel commandline, or having the previous kernel available with the same rootfs, etc
<leio>
so I guess depends on what the u-boot EFI implementation can do? I've got no experience with anything but grub and kernel EFI stub and only loading that on a full UEFI system though
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<jiaobaobao>
Can it be installed on an external hard drive
<leio>
at least the 2.5G APFS that installer makes needs to be on the hard drive, rest could be elsewhere but you're probably "on your own" a bit with that
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<jiaobaobao>
ok thanks
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<vadorovsky>
leio: yeah, I have similar experience to you (GRUB and full EFI with efibootmgr on x86_64)
<vadorovsky>
I can try using it to point to different kernels and initramfs images
<vadorovsky>
and point to the same rootfs
<dviola>
are there any workarounds to usb-c external monitor support? I don't think that's working?
<leio>
on my ryzen I just let EFI boot the kernel directly and don't have any choice what it boots, and on M2 I have the kernel directly in boot.bin, but need to move towards u-boot and grub, now that u-boot should be fixed on M2 Ultra
<leio>
only HDMI out from a real HDMI output port works, there are no workarounds other than using a USB GPU like a DisplayLink thing.
<dviola>
thanks
<leio>
or well, GPU is too much to say about a DisplayLink
<leio>
work in progress for the other ways.
<dviola>
great, thank you
<j`ey>
HDMI was a big step in that direction!
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<ownia_>
q
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<spuos>
Hey so you know how the speaker's interface is hidden by pipewire?
<spuos>
What happens if I don't have pipewire on the system
<chaos_princess>
depends on whether you have speakersafetyd - if you dont - they either will not work at all or will be extremely quiet (don't remember which), if you do - you will be able to play sound, but it will sound like ass, and it may get randomly cut.
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<spuos>
ah I see, failsafes are nice
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<tpw_rules>
vadorovsky: there's also extlinux.conf support
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<ml>
Is there an equivalent to the DisplayLink callback function used for normal Apple Metal apps? On linux and windows games I always see people use a looping approach which makes the rendering out of sync, and leads to a stutter. I feel it should be straightforward... At the right moment for us to render, Apple calls our function. So simply on linux we need a simple event at whenever that right moment is... and then our linux graphics on
<ml>
the mac would be more correctly syncing and remove the stutter. I could be wrong, but my impression is that this does not exist yet, is that right?
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<ml>
(Because the asahi linux stuttering causes more brain damage than using mac os, an enlightened being would address this before the thousand features... my impression is that people simply don't understand. Like how a painter might use toxic paints and be focused too much on painting, or a game dev would be focused too much on the details, to change the game controller matter to not damage the physical brain so severely... I understand
<ml>
people get lost, but the priority of stable display timing, should supersede all features, since it is on a more fundamental ground. A person can make a simple graphic, timed well, that is healthy. But no matter how many features we have in gpu graphics, if the timing is junk, it will damage the brains, across all apps. Just as no matter what a painter draws, if he draws with poison, everything he draws would be poison. The painter's
<ml>
intellect to choose a healthier paint, is more important than what he paints with it.)
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<chaos_princess>
mate, this is a wendy's
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<ml>
We do not need to eat to live.
<ml>
Confused people eat junk and are compromised in intellect and sense awareness, lower and lower, by negligence.
<ml>
Junk only tastes good to those conditioned in eating it.
<ml>
The dim make themselves dimmer, merely because they are driven by their dimness inside the condition of their disease.
<ml>
When you are provided healthy food that tastes better, you will by comparison have no taste for your junk food. Nor make any statements justifying the continued existence of junk.
<novaandromeda>
and now back to your regularly scheduled asahi linux discussion
<ml>
Is this really the stance of this whole community, or just a few fellows in the chat? My assumption of programmers, is that they are supposedly people who assume themselves to be intelligent.
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<novaandromeda>
intelligence is subjective
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<ml>
We have figured out the physical matter is directly binding intellect, and have designed matter to massively improve the brain function.
<ml>
Intellect is objectively linked to the matter condition.
<ml>
This is now an acute science.
<novaandromeda>
i really dont see what this has to do with asahi
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<ml>
The physical direct matter science, which determines if people become progressively more intelligent or more idiots, makes it clear what is important. We want to improve the intellect of programmers who are destroying their own intellect at scale. The negligence of displaylink timing not being attended to as top priority in asahi, is related to reducing the progressing dimness of programmers that gets worse each day.
<ml>
As a programmer who worked with metal, I was looking at asahi, and ran into this showstopper.
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<novaandromeda>
ml: the casual ableism isn't cool, plus this seems to be a relatively minor issue for the developers. just because a feature you want isn't present doesn't mean the developers are "idiots", as you claim. if that's something you desperately need, macos is an alternative option, as you mentioned. or, if you're willing to put in the work, i'm sure patches would be welcome. but personal attacks on the developers won't get you anywhere.
<psykose>
arguing with trolls lmao
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<novaandromeda>
lmao someones gotta xD
<psykose>
really don't
<novaandromeda>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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<leio>
I think they just don't know what they are talking about; my best guess is about knowing when a scanout will happen, which I'm sure already works fine
<novaandromeda>
probably
<leio>
that's like basic opengl, and it works just fine when the developer actually makes use of the standard things for that
* leio
enjoys GLES accelerated gtk4 at 60fps, with a debug flag intentionally ignoring it for benchmarking to go to 2000 fps
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<shiggitay>
hey all... I'm about to install AFR on my 14.2" MBP once macOS 14.2 (ironic lol) installs
<shiggitay>
well 14.2.1 but yeah
<shiggitay>
anything 14.2 or higher isn't "dangerously buggy" right?
<chaos_princess>
what machine do you have
<shiggitay>
...I just mentioned it lkol
<shiggitay>
lol*
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<chaos_princess>
there are a lot of mbps :P
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<shiggitay>
...14.2"
<shiggitay>
I said it
<shiggitay>
the midrange
<chaos_princess>
i think you are the only person to refer to it that way, but then macos 14.2 should be fine
<shiggitay>
who #asahi
<shiggitay>
erm oops
<shiggitay>
chaos_princess: is my MBP just referred to as the "14" " ?
<shiggitay>
14.2" is the full "technical" name for it
<shiggitay>
well screen spec
<chaos_princess>
yes, and probably include the chip name too. and no, thats not the full "technical" name, the technical name is most likely j314
<shiggitay>
lol okay... that's the model # but I get u
<chaos_princess>
i at first misread 14.2" as referring to macos version.
<shiggitay>
haha well I'm updating to that to apease the AFR install script since it won't let me go any farther until I update
<shiggitay>
appease? w/e
<chaos_princess>
most likely also due to being from a country with a sane measurement system and not recognizing what `"` means at first
<shiggitay>
I get you
<shiggitay>
where you from?
<shiggitay>
Also M1 Pro ofc.. that's what the 14.2" MBP shipped with (first of the M1 Pro generation for the MBPs)
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<shiggitay>
ok brb... shizz is installing
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<shiggitay>
now attempting to install Hexchat on Apple Silicon
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<shiggitay>
chaos_princess: I didn't see your answer as to where you're from, if you're okay with answering that
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<shiggitay>
Freakin' libgcc13 is taking 5-ever to compile lol