marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | "Does XXX work yet?": https://alx.sh/fs | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-alt #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<ydalton>
hm, i always had this question, what if you blacklisted the asahi kernel driver from loading, but the dcp driver would still be loaded. what would happen?
<sven>
software rending
<ydalton>
everything? but i imagine you'd still be able to change backlight settings and the like
<ydalton>
and the notch as well
<j`ey>
yes, those are part of dcp
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<bluetail>
can you run asahilinux in a virtual machine on a x86 pc?
<bluetail>
macOS already does, if you enter the "secret" passphrase ...
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<sven>
uh, what would be the point of that?
<ydalton>
doesn't running asahi linux in a VM not make sense at all?
<ydalton>
oh yeah i tried the blacklist thing myself, yeah there was indeed software rendering, but thanks to dcp, i didn't get screen tearing or anything like that
<j`ey>
bluetail: you could run a arm64 linux distro, but there's no reason to try asahi, since its only reason is to work on apple silicon hw directly
<ydalton>
it's not like running the default arch linux arm where it uses simpledrm and you do have screentearing
<j`ey>
you can add 'nomodeset' on the kernel command line if you want to try that out!
<bluetail>
j`ey run a vm, do gpu passthrough and see if the screens misbehave the same way they did on my m1 mac, or maybe my m1 mac is just defective... In any case, I still believe apple products talk proprietary to displays, and no displays other than the apple displays understand fully.
<j`ey>
bluetail: it wont be using the same drivers or anything
<bluetail>
oh. so its futile... thx
<j`ey>
other people are using random displays, without issues
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<bluetail>
j`ey apple locking down threads and macrumors having a felt hundred pages with display related issues is not exactly no issues... but yes, there are people with no issues, correct. There are also people who have apple displays that have issues. But I claim something I have no evidence for, that apple is intransparent about the parts and the
<bluetail>
communications to displays in general [...]
<j`ey>
sure, maybe there's some extra stuff for apple displays, but clearly they stick to standard stuff for other displays
<bluetail>
j`ey I have had lots of 'green line' artifacting in motion, as well as a moire effect, and I cannot make evidence as I lack the optics to do so. It could be even that apple is completely strictly following the specification. However what seems clear to me, that on the non-apple machines, the image is different, no matter what OS, and that I am used
<bluetail>
to it and can't get used to the small difference on what the display interprets on macOS
<j`ey>
and by 'on macOS' you also include asahi, right?
<bluetail>
no, I mean the hardware
<bluetail>
asahi behaves almost completely equally
<j`ey>
right, that's what I meant
<bluetail>
the difference is that on macOS the issues comes up randomly
<bluetail>
on asahi it seems always present
<bluetail>
I only can make guesses, and I am probably totally wrong about what is the actual cause of it
<j`ey>
have you been able to show anyone differences irl?
<bluetail>
I have shown it to one person, but they were barely noticing any difference
<bluetail>
I think the most likely outcome is that they'll say its in my head
<bluetail>
to which I went to the optometrist, which didnt find any issue with my sight
<bluetail>
j`ey ... I know of one user who might in the future be able to measure any differences...
<bluetail>
But I don't name them, cause I don't want to exert any pressure
<bluetail>
furthermore, I am absolutely certain this issue might express itself differently on different displays
<bluetail>
I have three displays at home where I can see it
<bluetail>
They have in common: High-Refresh Rate, TN Panel. Brands: LG, BenQ
<bluetail>
The moire effect lessens with higher refresh rate, which is confusing to me
<bluetail>
It appears to me as staring through bares all the time, when I move my head a bit from left to right
<bluetail>
bars*
<bluetail>
I tried alternative power sources, such as a UPS, but no diff
<j`ey>
next thing would be to try another m1. but unless there's an issue that someone can repro and work out if dcp is doing something "wrong"..
<bluetail>
yea, if it is just a defective m1, claims would just waste anybody elses time...
<ydalton>
j`ey: i have tried nomodeset and it's exactly the same outcome as installing arch linux asahi by default
<ydalton>
*with the default drivers
<j`ey>
although on fedora I think thats get you the EFI FB, not simpledrm, but all the same really
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<ydalton>
woops, almost pasted a ton of text instead of the pastebin
<nicolas17>
we're still missing the bootrom version of T6034 (the fat M3 Max)
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<mort_>
so this probably isn't asahi's fault, but it invites comparison with macOS, which makes it clear that: Linux's bluetooth stack is seemingly a little bit broken in pretty much every single layer in the stack
<psykose>
6.6 broke even my bluetooth on every single device i tested, in that the first time connecting to a device crashes everything and it only works after restarting some stuff in the kernel :D
<mort_>
awesome!
<mort_>
for me it's just ambiently broken; way too aggressive with forcing reconnects, misses the first 0.1 second of audio, and best of all, I have to pair my earbuds again every time they've been connected to another device, connecting doesn't work
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<psykose>
the latter is fun, same here :D
<psykose>
the middle one i think is a sink-sleeping thing
<psykose>
if you disable sinks pausing(?) in wireplumber or wherever it was there is no initial delay
<psykose>
i guess it's by design
<mort_>
I don't care about why it happens, it's just so inelegant and certainly shouldn't be default behavior and iOS, macOS, Android and Windows all manage to not miss the first bit of audio
<mort_>
but the first and last issues are by far the largest ones
<mort_>
I just we had someone who cared about bluetooth working on bluetooth
<ar>
mort_: my experience comes from x86 non-apple laptops, but my experience is pretty much reverse - that the stack on linux works best
<mort_>
weird
<mort_>
x86 linux stuff has always had weird bluetooth issues for me
<mort_>
some seemingly intended, like I don't think the incredibly aggressive "oh you connected your phone to your earbuds? Let me yank them back" behavior is a driver bug
<ar>
my issues with non-linux bt stacks mostly boil down to "linux lets me choose the codec, and doesn't arbitrarily limit the choice of codecs depending on bt hardware vendor"
<mort_>
Linux just limits choice of codecs to the 1 shitty sounding royalty free one
<ar>
no?
<ar>
i have ldac, sbc, aac, and apt-x available.
<mort_>
yea? Linux bluetooth stacks generally don't support apt.x
<ar>
now, some distros (cough cough fedora cough) choose not to ship support for various features because of patents or whatever
<ar>
but that's, well, very much a fedora problem, and not limited to just bluetooth codecs
<mort_>
I haven't seen a distro ship apt-x support out of the box, when I've cared enough I've had to download and compile and install some pulseaudio fork with apt-x support
<psykose>
libfreeaptx is a thing and every distro i've used has it with pipewire and that's available
<mort_>
I guess I haven't looked at this after the move to pipewire
<psykose>
though i'm not sure what 'having an option' means? aren't they inherently limited to if the bluetooth device actually supports it
<psykose>
if the headphones only have a decoder for one thing you can't actually pick anything else
<mort_>
what's the deal with libfreeaptx? I thought the problem with apt-x was the patents, not that there aren't FOSS encoder/decoder implementations
<psykose>
you're probably right
<psykose>
most distros just don't care and shipped it anyway
<psykose>
reminds me of fedora disabling all the video decoders by default in mesa
<j`ey>
and ffmpeg
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<mort_>
it's beyond messed up that we're in a world where basic math can be patented, that governments just say "no you're not allowed to use this math now, Qualcomm owns this math"
<psykose>
agreed
<mort_>
anyway I could forgive the codec issue, it's outside of the FOSS world's control, but all the other basic functionality issues are huge problems and it doesn't seem like anyone cares
<mort_>
this is not an attack against Asahi, as I said I haven't used a Linux device with functional Bluetoth outside of Android
<ar>
also, funnily enough, i've seen the "headphones stealing" issue on my partner's devices, with ubuntu, windows, and android, but only if they use their headphones, and not borrow mine because they can't find their own
<mort_>
this "nobody seems to care" thing extends out into the broader Bluetooth ecosystem and standards bodies too, like why do we still not have ok bidirectional audio? Can it *really* be unreasonable amounts of data to send one 128kbps audio stream in ech direction where one is stereo
<ar>
so i'm inclined to belive this does - at least to some extent - depend on the headphones
<mort_>
cars are notorious for stealing bluetooth devices in my experience
<mort_>
tho maybe more in the "client device forces the host to connect" way than "host forces the client device to connect" way
<ar>
in any case, bluetooth remains to be a "fun" protocol.
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<ar>
i'm often amazed anyone manages to implement it in any somewhat working and compatible capacity, if not always securely
<mort_>
I'm amazed that the standards body hasn't just said "ok mp3 is decent and patents have expired, you now have to support 128-320kbps mp3"
<mort_>
guessing influence from the companies which want patent royalties for things like apt-x
<psykose>
the decoder side has to be able to do it in hardware too, i wonder how hard hwdec mp3 is (i know the other modern codecs were designed around making it easy in hardware or whatever)
<mort_>
eh throw a $10 mcu in there and it'll sw decode mp3
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<ar>
there's also the issue of battery life
<mort_>
I guess there may be good reasons to not use mp3 if it actually is hard to hardware decode efficiently