marcan changed the topic of #asahi to: Asahi Linux: porting Linux to Apple Silicon macs | "Does XXX work yet?": https://alx.sh/fs | GitHub: https://alx.sh/g | Wiki: https://alx.sh/w | Topics: #asahi-dev #asahi-re #asahi-gpu #asahi-alt #asahi-stream #asahi-offtopic | Keep things on topic | Logs: https://alx.sh/l/asahi
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<marcan>
pitust: you need the asahi-audio and alsa-ucm-asahi packages to tie everything together
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<jiaobaobao>
Can install the system on an external hard drive
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<pchmykh>
Hello! Please advise, how to get macos-like hotkeys at Fedora GNOME? Thank you!
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<ydalton>
kidplayer666: wayland also has keyloggers
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<Nefsen402>
ydalton: Wayland does not have keyloggers. There is no protocol that exists that can make an application ask for all key events. Applications need to go directly to the kernel and that requires root
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<Nefsen402>
That utility reads key events off of devices in /dev/input circumventing wayland
<Nefsen402>
the only wayland related part is showing the keypresses in an overlay
<ydalton>
alright
<ydalton>
but at that point, if you have root, you can do whatever you want it seems
<Nefsen402>
if you have root you can replace the bootloader
<Nefsen402>
You have raw access to all hw
<ydalton>
not so sure about that, isn't the kernel supposed to do that?
<Nefsen402>
with root you can unload kernel provided drivers and replace it with your own dkms module
<ydalton>
oh that
<ydalton>
well if you know how to write a module, that's it, game over
<Nefsen402>
It's game over from just overwriting the bootloader
<ydalton>
with root you can even brick your whole system :P
<Nefsen402>
Yes, you can replace device firmware
<ydalton>
if it is a UEFI computer with a poor UEFI implementation
<Nefsen402>
Every UEFI implementation supports replacing itself
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<Nefsen402>
Windows update updates the bios and that's common on laptops
<ydalton>
no, i'm talking about an incident where running `sudo rm -rf /` would brick the whole computer, not just the OS
<Nefsen402>
donno what point your trying to make
<pchmykh>
psykose, kidplayer666, yep, I am on wayland. :(
<ydalton>
because the UEFI didn't know how to handle the deletions of efivars or whatever
<chadmed>
all PC implementations of UEFI are shithouse
<ydalton>
let's all go to edk2 :P
<chadmed>
(granted part of that is because you have literally two choices of uefi implementer as a board manufacturer)
<Nefsen402>
There's another one? All i've seen is megatrends
<chadmed>
phoenix are still around
<chadmed>
formerly award
<ydalton>
either american megatrends or phoenix
<ydalton>
there was another one i think
<rosefromthedead>
insyde?
<chadmed>
i might have seen like one VIA board way back when that wasnt either of those two
<chadmed>
but for as long as i can remember i dont think ive ever seen a PC firmware that wasnt ami or award/phoenix
<ydalton>
maybe insyde, but afaik i've only seen the two biggies
<chadmed>
actually did intel do their own when they still made boards? i had one of their socket 478 boards but i dont remember much about it
<chadmed>
either way, literally no one has a good uefi implementation
<chadmed>
theyre either missing an integrated shell, dont respect efi vars, initialise secureboot into an invalid state, ignore anything other than windows that tries to edit the boot entries, etc
<ydalton>
i had one where you couldn't disable secure boot without enabling csm :D
<chadmed>
i had a board a while ago where i had to keep a usb with a uefi shell on it just so i could edit the boot entries manually
<ydalton>
or rather, csm was not toggleable
<Nefsen402>
I'm lucky I have a desktop with a UEFI implementation that's perfectly happy with linux efistub. Wild west for laptop implementations where chances are greater the firmware has a critical bug
<leio>
is TianoCore one of those 2 UEFI implementations?
<leio>
or one of those bad implementations
<ydalton>
edk2/tianocore
<chadmed>
leio: tianocore is edk2
<leio>
missed that earlier mention from ydalton
<leio>
is that one good then
<ydalton>
i've only used it in virtual machines, i haven't seen it raw in the wild, at least once i think
<leio>
something coreboot would use it, if it provides UEFI
<leio>
u-boot has its own thing?
<chaos_princess>
U-boot is more like "just enough efi to boot linux"
<ydalton>
heh
<Nefsen402>
would be nice one day if linux could understand the apple thing closer so uboot isn't needed
<ydalton>
uboot isn't needed? m1n1 can boot a linux kernel directly
<ydalton>
u-boot is there to support grub iirc
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<Nefsen402>
Hmm. I guess you'd want grub to have a menu to boot other kernels
<Nefsen402>
I use efistub on all machines I can
<Nefsen402>
so I'd prefer a simpler approach
<ydalton>
if i knew what i was doing, i'd set it to boot a linux kernel with initramfs directly as m1n1 stage 2
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<ydalton>
Nefsen402: efistub is really good, my linux starts immediately when it's done with POST
<chadmed>
i tried to snipe lina into implementing enough uefi into m1n1 to allow us to ditch u-boot but she didnt bite :p
<chadmed>
note also that u-boot provides the usb stack, so uefi boot off an external drive comes For Free(tm) if we use it
<Nefsen402>
Yeah, the boot speed of asahi is definitely not stunning by any means
<chadmed>
we just have to make its usb stack less shit
<ydalton>
why do we need uefi anyway?
<chadmed>
because its part of both EBBR and SBBR
<chadmed>
and distros expect it
<chadmed>
distros target one of those two arm "boot standards" with their tooling and infrastructure
<chadmed>
both of them mandate uefi
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<chadmed>
so if we want widespread distro support, we have to implement enough of uefi to at least get to a "proper" linux bootloader, whether thats the efi stub, grub, sd-boot, refind, whatever
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<holiday>
guys my audio stopped working
<holiday>
and it doesnt work with headphones either
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<leio>
I boot linux straight as m1n1 payload due to now fixed u-boot crash on M2 Ultra, still need to deal with moving over to u-boot/grub to match what we'd want in a gentoo installer
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<ydalton>
holiday: what kernel are you?
<ydalton>
*on
<holiday>
ydalton: 6.6.3-411
<holiday>
i reinstalled pipewire
<holiday>
i will reboot now and see if that fixed anything
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<holiday>
yeah it worked
<holiday>
i might accidentally installed a pulseaudio eq and removed pipewire
<holiday>
might have*
<Nefsen402>
did anyone have any luck getting easyeffects working?
<holiday>
Nefsen402: just tried it and failed
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<Nefsen402>
When I enter couch potato mode and have my laptop sitting on my chest it's definitely not an ideal listening position. Seems the irs are tuned for someone sitting like a regular person
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<ydalton>
Nefsen402: i tried it for my headphones but eh
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<chadmed>
Nefsen402: which machine
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<chadmed>
j415 and j314 sound fine when im lying down. i use both in bed so i made damn sure the IRs suffered from as little directionality as possible
<Nefsen402>
j416 here
<Nefsen402>
it's not horrible
<Nefsen402>
the mids are just too loud though
<Nefsen402>
but yeah now with speaker support I'm using asahi way more
<Nefsen402>
cool party trick for my geeky friends this holiday party I'm throwing hopefully
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<dsoto>
I'm trying to use US dvorak but I'm getting a "keyboard geometry failed to load" error when I try to preview
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<dsoto>
It also says: No symbols named "dvorak" in the include file "macintosh_vndr/us". Maybe I need to contribute a keymap?
<Nefsen402>
I use dvorak on sway. It works fine on asahi
<Nefsen402>
iirc "loadkeys dvorak" should also give you dvorak on the tty
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<dsoto>
I'll look into those. Right now I'm trying to use the Fedora/Plasma system settings.
<Nefsen402>
Never use KDE once in my life, can't help you there. Sorry
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<kidplayer666>
Nefsen402: macOS probably has a more V shaped curve just for giggles
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<j`ey>
Nefsen402: do you use efistub+kernel? how do you choose any kernel if you need to?
<Nefsen402>
you have multiple boot entries in the efi
<Nefsen402>
one for each kernel
<Nefsen402>
if I want to boot lts I enter the bios and select it
<j`ey>
ah right, well for us that's grub really, but maybe systemd-boot in the future
<Nefsen402>
Apple has a boot picker
<Nefsen402>
using that with different kernels would be ideal
<chaos_princess>
not possible unless you want to have to reboot to recovery on every kernel update
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<sven>
yeah, each entry in the boot picker needs its own stub partition
<sven>
and also gets its own sep context which we’ll eventually use as well
<Nefsen402>
what's a sep and why do I want it?
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<chaos_princess>
secure element, you want it for hw disk encryption, touch id and maybe installing linux from linux.
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<kidplayer666>
chaos_princess: and probably not having to do that sketchy thing in a recovery environment to install Linux
<Nefsen402>
you'd still have to do that
<chaos_princess>
no, you will still need to do "the sketchy thing"
<Nefsen402>
only time you'd not need to do that is if apple starts signing our kernels which is a pipe dream
<kidplayer666>
Ah crap
<kidplayer666>
Had my hopes up
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<Nefsen402>
who knows, maybe apple will wake up one day see how great of a state asahi is in and see it as a business opportunity. The server market has a lot of money in it
<Nefsen402>
But I don't think apple really wants to compte with nvidia there
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<kidplayer666>
Nefsen402: as if
<kidplayer666>
They’d try to capture the professional market with macOS
<kidplayer666>
They would never relinquish that control
<Nefsen402>
There is no avenue for apple to do so in the server market
<leio>
maybe they'll at least realize that linux is a better kernel than XNU :D
<kidplayer666>
Nefsen402: why wouldn’t they
<kidplayer666>
(Want to compete with NVIDIA)
<kidplayer666>
leio: again, would mean relinquishing control
<kidplayer666>
They’d only change to Linux if A- they could make great marketing to their general audience, B-they could have control over it and give credit to no one else
<Nefsen402>
There is no "changing" here. I'm just saying there is a slim chance that they might want to support a linux for servers
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<kidplayer666>
Problem is enterprise customers probably know their worth and Apple might not be able to get their insane margins
<kidplayer666>
Or maybe because it’s enterprise they’d be able to create an even greater cult following
<Nefsen402>
If you can offer better power efficiency than the competition then some will bite because for them, the increased price can pay for itself
<kidplayer666>
The problem is the fact that there is insane competition in the space
<sven>
I’d expect them to bring back macOS Server and offer some vm solution to run Linux there but who knows
<kidplayer666>
Even Intel is trying to get into that space
<kidplayer666>
With their new hopper competitor
<Nefsen402>
People are falling hand over fist to enter this market because of the insane amount of money involved
<Nefsen402>
AI is the new buzz and good models need a lot of compute
<kidplayer666>
That is indeed true
<Nefsen402>
it's a good time to enter as long as you believe that AI will continue to be a priority
<leio>
it's not like the cloud market isn't full of ARM64 offerings, but I understand the focus was on the GPU here
<kidplayer666>
And since apple doesn’t support all the open API’s properly…
<kidplayer666>
Unless they had some insane first party offering
<Nefsen402>
Nvidia doesn't offer an open API but people consider it the gold standard
<kidplayer666>
I doubt they’d change to their tooling
<kidplayer666>
Nefsen402: because it is already well implanted
<kidplayer666>
And all the programmers are trained in it
<kidplayer666>
Apple would need to make a revolution to be able to have a chance
<kidplayer666>
And they’d need to design repairable hardware probably
<kidplayer666>
Or be 2 years ahead of everyone else
<Nefsen402>
Believe it or not, apple doesn't design hardware with reparability or a decent gpu driver because consumers don't care
<Nefsen402>
They care about a sleak design, nice speakers, a bright screen and good battery life
<Nefsen402>
Apple opened up the bootloader for macs because they thought mac owners care about that (developers and such duel booting multiple versions of macos). The iphone will never get that feature because iphone users don't care
<Nefsen402>
When I first heard about apple sicilone, I thought, well there goes any chance in hell of running windows or linux
<ydalton>
but i'm not sure if that's with apple silicon
<ydalton>
i know that boot components are checked for integrity
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<spuos>
hey I asked sevral days ago but then dc'd, How do I get audio on my macbook air (m1) running arch arm?
<tpw_rules>
be patient
<spuos>
tpw_rules so does that mean that I can't do that yet? I was just apoligising because I never actually read any messages related to it.
<PaulFertser>
spuos: you can do that if you can manually install newer proper lsp-plugins version and then patch the kernel and then get the right pipewire configs etc.
<tpw_rules>
sorry, what i meant is that the answer to your question is to be patient
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<PaulFertser>
spuos: or use external bluetooth or USB soundcard.
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<spuos>
PaulFertser, alright, I guess I can do that, do you know where I would look for the default linux-asahi config?
<ydalton>
either that or move to fedora
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<spuos_>
tpw_rules: I see, I thought it was part of the main repos from the blog update
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