jmairboeck has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
jmairboeck has joined #haiku
andreasdr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kescher has quit [Quit: Bye]
kescher has joined #haiku
kescher has quit [Quit: Bye]
kescher has joined #haiku
Ellenor has joined #haiku
beaglejoe has joined #haiku
<Ellenor>
Is the "opt" key what a unix person would call "super"?
andreasdr has joined #haiku
<nephele[m]>
The windows key
HAL_6900 has joined #haiku
<Ellenor>
nephele[m]: that answers the question.
<nephele[m]>
:)
<Ellenor>
I just looked at the mail-daemon documentation and thought.. "How very Unix Philosophy."
<Ellenor>
which is very odd for a not-unix OS like haiku.
<nephele[m]>
Haiku is mostly posix compliant
<Ellenor>
aye
andreasdr has quit [Quit: Page closed]
andreasdr has joined #haiku
<andreasdr>
Hi, so I like to be a bit verbose about my RADEONDRM project. I am sorry. I ll just tell my observations here about hardware and radeondrm driver.
<andreasdr>
So small update: I bought last week a Radeon HD 6970. It does not work with 3D hardware acceleration due to a failing command ringN test at least in my computer. I read that SOME cards have this problem that I had and thought ok, ill get another card with another chipset. I did. So I bought a Radeon HD 6870.
<andreasdr>
This card also has the "same" issue like the one before. I read somewhere that disabling DPM will make those card work. I tried that with a custom kernel and NetBSD. It did not help, also disabling DPM is a bad idea for some reason.
<andreasdr>
I did not knew that the DRM situation was that bad with certain cards. It just makes no sense to try a RADEONDRM port without a working setup of the port source.
<andreasdr>
Last try. I will buy next week a Radeon HD 5970 or 5850, depends on how much they cost. Already spent 70€. LOL.
<andreasdr>
Also those cards < 6XXX are really slow. They will only work for games of a decade ago I guess.
Leandro[m] has joined #haiku
<Ellenor>
What's dpm?
<andreasdr>
It handles the graphics board chip and memory clocking/speed and such.
<andreasdr>
AFAIK
<andreasdr>
I am also new to this topic :)
<andreasdr>
I just cant buy 10000 graphics boards and test until one works :)
<andreasdr>
I tried newer RADEONDRM cards to have some gain of the whole thing. Lets see with the 5XXX.
<andreasdr>
Maybe I only have bad luck. LOL.
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-2/±0] https://git.io/JzX0a
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes be9d773 - XMoto: bump version
<Ellenor>
Some UNIX filesystems support file forks - ZFS calls them "extended attributes" and has few, if any, restrictions on the format (although it's expected to mainly be used for NFS vers. 4 permissions). If I was, hypothetically, to port such a filesystem to Haiku, would it be reasonable to use that file fork support to implement storage of Be attributes to such non-Be filesystems?
<nephele[m]>
If you mean extended atributes, most linux filesystems have those. the only "big" difference is that Be attributes are typed, and extended attributes are not
<nephele[m]>
which means that the first 4 bytes are significant on BFS but aren't on xfs, ext4 etc
<nephele[m]>
but yes, you can use those for Be attributes
<x512[m]>
Be attributes need indexing, otherwise file associations and some cases of application launching will stop working.
<nephele[m]>
yeah, that is kind of the reason BFS is used, i suppose for other FS you migth need to have some daemon providing this :/
<x512[m]>
andreasdr: Is RADEONDRM project related to Haiku?
<nephele[m]>
Aww boxedwine crashed as soon as i tried to run Arcanum
<x512[m]>
Is something already working?
<andreasdr>
It compiles. But does not link yet.
<andreasdr>
Lots of stuff to do still.
<andreasdr>
Next would be PCI.
<andreasdr>
Spent only like 2-3 weeks on it as I was very busy with other stuff
<nephele[m]>
Is madmax on irc aswell?
Ilyan has joined #haiku
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JzXaL
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 7d75ab2 - XMoto: fix build for x86 arch
<Coldfirex>
Is "KERN: usb_hid: no handlers for hid device" something relevant to report? Noticed it when plugging in a usb wireless gaming dongle that connects to headphones (which I didnt expect audio to work in the first place)
glitchedpplSynapse[m] has joined #haiku
Ilyan has quit [Quit: Ilyan]
floof58 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
floof58 has joined #haiku
Animortis has joined #haiku
andreasdr has quit [Quit: Page closed]
andreasdr has joined #haiku
HAL_6900 has left #haiku [#haiku]
HAL_6900 has joined #haiku
<Animortis>
What's our kernel called? NewOS?
blabber has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.2.1]
<x512[m]>
Haiku kernel is a fork of NewOS made long time ago. No special kernel name.
<x512[m]>
NewOS development seems stopped.
<Animortis>
Ah cool
<Animortis>
And we support C++, C, Rust, Python, plus some others, right?
<mmu_man>
RMS once suggested we call it Limerick
<mmu_man>
so we can talk about GNU/Limerick
<andreasdr>
I followed NewOS also a long while. Unfortunately it stopped development but now it continues to live within Haiku. Still very cool. Travis Geiselbrecht also seems to be a very cool guy. He lived the BeOS dream for a while. He kicked off iOS on Arm AFAIK.
<Animortis>
The more you reference something else in your branding, the more people will think of that other brand, and asking why aren't they using that instead.
<Animortis>
GNU/Limerick sounds too much like GNU/Linux, imo
<nephele[m]>
Animortis: Our code is pretty much all C++ plus a bit of C in places, what do you mean with support languages? it depends a bit on what you mean by it to answer if we support it ;)
<nephele[m]>
Gnu/kFreeBSD is also a good example, if you arrived there I'd suggest to just use FreeBSD proper instead :P
<Animortis>
I'm putting together a highlights video. I have a line about, "Haiku supports C, C++, Rust, Python, and others."
<Animortis>
Wanted to be accurate
<Animortis>
I think the context is for porting software
<Animortis>
Yeah I'm litterally on FreeBSD right now, and I've never heard of kFreeBSD lol
<Animortis>
I dual boot to Debian, too lol
<Ellenor>
mmu_man: Lol
blabber has joined #haiku
<Ellenor>
Tanka maybe?
<x512[m]>
It is better to say C, C++, Rust, Python and others support Haiku. Haiku itself do not need special handling for every supported language.
<Animortis>
Ah cool ty
<andreasdr>
@x512[m]: You are the RISC port guy, true?
<x512[m]>
Yes.
<andreasdr>
Nice. I would love to know something about performance on this motherboard.
<andreasdr>
Did you run some benchmarks? Or how long does it take to compile Haiku itself on this motherboard. Id love to compare it to my machines.
<nephele[m]>
Yes, i'd agree. we only ship compilers for C++ and C in the default install
<andreasdr>
Just super curious.
<nephele[m]>
you can install stuff for rust, python etc. later. but you can do that too for lua etc. :)
<andreasdr>
Also power usage would be super interesting.
<nephele[m]>
Animortis: GNU/kFreeBSD is a debian arch... it's supposed to be Debian on FreeBSD kernel
<nephele[m]>
I have no idea why they wanted that, maybe that portability can stamp out bugs?
<x512[m]>
I not yet tested full build Haiku on Haiku RISC-V, only some libraries (libroot.so, libbe.so).
<Animortis>
nephele[m]: I'd assume someone decided they should diversify outside Linux?
illwieckz has quit []
<nephele[m]>
Debian also has a hurd arch afaik
<nephele[m]>
and maybe netbsd kernel aswell? not too sure about that
<Animortis>
When was the last hurd patch? Like 8 years ago?
<nephele[m]>
they are quite portable anyhow, even for a linux distro
<Animortis>
Oh wow Debian just put out a new Gnu/Hurd version
illwieckz has joined #haiku
<x512[m]>
HiFive Unmatched has some problems with large memory block access speed, it is about 140 MB/s per 1 CPU core. 70 MB/s for GPU memory access. There are DMA controller that can significantly speed up memory access, but I have not tried it yet.
<andreasdr>
Ok. Damn. Seems to be pretty slow this board. Damn.
<Animortis>
nephele[m]: The announcement email came out Aug. 14
<andreasdr>
Not everyone needs to compile software or something.
<Animortis>
Oh the patch
<nephele[m]>
Not sure what email you mean, you asked about patches :)
<x512[m]>
This is a problem for large memory blocks, it memory access fits cache, it is significantly faster.
<Animortis>
Huh what do you know. They must've just started back up again, because Hurd was DOA for ages and ages.
<Animortis>
I need to get to work. Those people should be developing for us.
<andreasdr>
Ok
<nephele[m]>
Dunno about that, it didn't have large publicity for a long time already, but i don't think it really died?
<nephele[m]>
I don't know if hurd would be a good fit for us, if we want more microkernel we might be better off to change our code to work more like a microkernel design
<Animortis>
nephele[m]: I mean they not code for a useless kernel and start helping our kernel lol
phaedros has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<nephele[m]>
Animortis: That's pretty disrespectfull, we aren't any "better" than they are...
<x512[m]>
I see no benefits in Hurd kernel, there are more interesting and functional microkernels such as Zirkon and Genode.
<Animortis>
nephele[m]: Yeah I regretted that as soon as I said it
<nephele[m]>
Minix 3 is interesting aswell, even if its basically "imagine netbsd but microkernel" at this point :)
<Animortis>
Looks like they haven't updated in about five years though
<Animortis>
Or at least not the news section on their site
<nephele[m]>
X512: do you know of plans for GLSL shaders for stuff like mediaplayer or so? does that fit with the media streams api?
<nephele[m]>
I wonder if we can for example have Anime4k as translator for use in mediaplayer using glsl to do live upscaling
<x512[m]>
My VideoSteams framework should allow to make filter nodes that will process GPU buffers by OpenGL/Vulkan.
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+4/-4/±0] https://git.io/JzXjp
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 3c5fd1c - Telegram: bump version
<andreasdr>
Cool.
beaglejoe has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<Ellenor>
nephele[m], Debian GKFBSD is dead.
<andreasdr>
I was a long time NetBSD lover. There also was a project which had NetBSD kernel and GNU user land. But never tried it. Also it died If I remember right.
<andreasdr>
If I just remember how many BeOS projects existed in early 2000. All died but HaikuOS did not. Congrats.
<andreasdr>
BeOS OS projects
countryboy has joined #haiku
<andreasdr>
QNX was also very nice!!!
<andreasdr>
But they have gone from "Desktop-OS" market.
<andreasdr>
Recently discovered MorphOS - a powerpc Amiga OS like OS. Looks promising.
<andreasdr>
But very old 3d hardware stack.
<andreasdr>
Also they are tied to old PowerPC Mac computers. That sounds like no future unfortunately.
<andreasdr>
What about Haiku PowerPC port? Would love to test Haiku on my G5.
<andreasdr>
:D
<countryboy>
freedom ...
<andreasdr>
?
<andreasdr>
Anyone else who found QNX nice?
<countryboy>
fine, lovely
<andreasdr>
:)
<countryboy>
also microkernel ...
<andreasdr>
Yes. I remember.
<andreasdr>
I loved it.
<andreasdr>
There some other small OSes like AtheOS and SkyOS. I was digging this stuff in early 2000. Interesting time to hang out on computers.
<countryboy>
aros
fjmorazan has quit [Quit: fjmorazan]
<andreasdr>
Now I usually use FreeBSD. FreeBSD IS ROCK N ROLL. The fastest OS around. But nearly boring because it just works on my machine.
<nephele[m]>
I use FreeBSD for my mail server aswell, it's nice, I used to use it as a Desktop before I used Haiku
britishgeekguy[m] has joined #haiku
<andreasdr>
Nice.
<nephele[m]>
it's my number one choice when i want to format some drives other OS refuse to touch though :D
<britishgeekguy[m]>
Hey, please can someone help me, i am having trouble with my Haiku install
<andreasdr>
The best combination of graphics board and open source drivers for it was really my "AMD VEGA 56". It requires AMDGPUDRM. This driver is the hugest in whole linux kernel lol. But worked like a charm! 100%.
<andreasdr>
for me
<andreasdr>
Whereas a 5700XT does trouble also. (It also uses AMDGPUDRM)
<andreasdr>
So. And intel drivers seem to be rock solid too. But Intels APUs are rather slow.
<countryboy>
freebsd has devil as icon ...
<countryboy>
but devil is a fantasy ...
<andreasdr>
What do you mean?
<andreasdr>
Yes true. But why is it a fantasy?
<nephele[m]>
oh wow countryboy , you reminded me of the song ravers fantasy :D
<countryboy>
linux people tell me that ...
<andreasdr>
I never booted AROS until now. For me OS get usually interesting from the point on they have hardware accelerated 3D. I am developing a 3D engine and a game with it. So I need it.
<nephele[m]>
I'm still wondering if lövr is any good for a 3d engine, i really enjoy using löve2d
<nephele[m]>
(for "normal" non-vr content anyhow)
<andreasdr>
Never heard about Lövr.
<andreasdr>
Not every 3D engine needs every rendering feature. Because this means usually other or more work for artists and game design. Its more about how easy it is to program it and how it does perform.
tqh has joined #haiku
<andreasdr>
And maybe its also about portability.
<andreasdr>
Not every game out there is AAA.
<nephele[m]>
I really enjoy programming in lua for games, I don't really want an AAA engine :)
<andreasdr>
Ok. I See. But lots of games, also in AAA, use LUA :D
<nephele[m]>
I have tried in the past to use unity or unreal, but those are too complicated for me, i much prefer a single api reference to use heh... and not too many complex tools I have to wrap my head around
<nephele[m]>
Is your engine ment as a basis for other 3d games aswell?
<andreasdr>
Sure
<andreasdr>
Sorry need to go now. Lets continue later
<britishgeek>
Hey, please can somebody help me with my Haiku Installation?
<humdinger>
hi britishgeek. state your problem, maybe somebody in the channel can help
AlaskanEmily has joined #haiku
<britishgeek>
i did a USB install for Haiku, installed the bootloader and stuff, and after rebooting, im stuck in the Haiku Bootloader with it saying "Select boot volume (Current: None" and when i press into it, it says "<No Boot Volumes Found>" oh and i tried going into the Live Enviroment and running the makebootable command in the terminal
<Animortis>
Is this an EFI install?
<britishgeek>
No, its a BIOS
<Animortis>
Bleh I only know efi personally
<britishgeek>
ok
<humdinger>
Did you mark the partition as "active"?
<britishgeek>
it should be, i think i checked it in the installer, let me load up the live enviroment to check
<humdinger>
I'm not an expert in installing Haiku, as I've been using my setup for a decade...
<britishgeek>
Ok
<britishgeek>
how do i check if its active?
<humdinger>
I'd say, make sure you create an Intel extended partition and put your partitions in there.
<humdinger>
There's a "Parameters" column in DriveSetup
<britishgeek>
so my drive is initialised as a BE OS Filetype, but i can not make a partition in the Be OS drive
<humdinger>
Do create an Intel Extended Partition, mark active, then create partitions inside of it.
<humdinger>
at least I think that's how it's supposed to be. works for me at least
<britishgeek>
the option for Intel Extended Partition Map is grayed out
<britishgeek>
the only options is Normal Intel and GUID
<humdinger>
I mean from the Partition | Create... window
<humdinger>
Initialize from the Disk menu as Intel Partition Map, then the above.
<britishgeek>
create window is grayed out too
<britishgeek>
ok
<britishgeek>
im confused, is Intel Extended Partition better than the Be File System
<humdinger>
No expert here. The first is the kind of partition table, the latter the file system on the partition.
<britishgeek>
so do i instll Haiku on the Intel Extended Partition?
<humdinger>
after creating a a be file system partiion in there.
<x512[m]>
<Leandro[m]> "20210925_210853.jpg" <- Lets see how many minutes it take before it enter BSOD and trash whole file system (or registry at least making it unbootable).
<Leandro[m]>
well...
<Leandro[m]>
i managed to hard reboot it without fucking the registry quite a few times
<x512[m]>
I have never seen report of using ReactOS for at least for a week.
<Leandro[m]>
how? i have no idea
<Leandro[m]>
x512[m]: because i never wrote one :troll:
<x512[m]>
Nobody seems did it.
<x512[m]>
Haiku can be used for years without file system corruptions. I have BFS partitions from old installations that are about 10 years old.
<britishgeek>
noice
<x512[m]>
<Leandro[m]> "20210925_211445.jpg" <- Did you tried safe video drivers in boot loader menu?
<Leandro[m]>
what menu 😅
<x512[m]>
Repeately press space bar while booting and you get it.
<Leandro[m]>
ah ok
<x512[m]>
safe mode options -> use fail safe graphics driver
<rennj>
vesa graphics for all!
<x512[m]>
What graphics card have that laptop?
<rennj>
what have at that thee
<rennj>
matrox g400 dual monitor worked well with beos i recall
<rennj>
think that went up to g550 version supported
<Leandro[m]>
x512[m]: some intel arrandale igpu and Radeon HD 5470
<Leandro[m]>
none of the gpus in that laptop are supported apparently
<rennj>
my 2015 amd apu laptop is not supported why i run it like sane persion in vmware,virtualbox,kvm/qemu etc....
<rennj>
acpi or video or nic
<rennj>
fans running full tilt sure bios/uefi controlled
<rennj>
video sucky vesa
<rennj>
no 802.11ac wifi nic
<x86corez>
<Leandro[m]> "Stas'M: you are not alone..." <- who pinged me 👀
<x86corez>
ah I see :)
<britishgeek>
Hey, pls can someone help me?
<rennj>
you ask some detailed question and perhaps someone in the channel knows and is willing to answer..
<britishgeek>
after almost 5 hours of reinstalling and debugging, my old laptop now runs Haiku! but my WiFi card is not supported, is there a way to get drivers on Haiku?
<rennj>
usb dongles
<x512[m]>
What is WiFi card device ID (can be listed with listdev connand or in Devices applicstion)?
<rennj>
cdrom media
<rennj>
how are the laptop fans is the the bigger question?
<rennj>
running full speed is not good
<x512[m]>
Haiku has no fan control if I remember.
<rennj>
certain os's on my hardware i know from boot are wasting my time, if i hear the fans going full speed..means they got crap for acpi drivers
<britishgeek>
i did the listdev command @x512 and it says BCM4313 Broadcom Wireless Network Adapter
<rennj>
solaris is same deal
<rennj>
much better in vmware
<rennj>
since linux knows how to throttle my laptop cpu/gpu apu combo
<rennj>
vmware vm's can be all the same hardware 2 vcpu, 20GB ide disk, e1000 nic, and ac97 audio...
<britishgeek>
Thanks for the link, but i do not know what to do with the things in the comments
<britishgeek>
i assume one of them is a uncompiled FreeBSD header driver thing
<x512[m]>
BCM4313 seems not supported yet. Driver may be ported from FreeBSD if it support this WiFi adapter. It is also may be possible to replace WiFi card to supported one. Usually it use mini PCIe or M.2 connector.
<britishgeek>
Damn...
<britishgeek>
well, im glad i have a Windows PC for my main
<britishgeek>
i can bridge the wifi using a ethernet
<britishgeek>
since it detects my ethernet card
<x512[m]>
I have 3 devices with idualwifi7260 (one of then with RISC-V CPU) and 2 with Atheros WiFi. All working.
<x512[m]>
Broadcom seems not work well with Haiku.
<britishgeek>
ok thanks
<britishgeek>
im gonna go now
<britishgeek>
thanks for everybodys help
<britishgeek>
Goodbye!
britishgeek has left #haiku [#haiku]
<mmu_man>
Broadcom, period :-D
<andreasdr>
nephele: "both doc links in readme are 404 :/?" Did you mean tdme2 documentation? What exactly did you click?
qwebirc82926 has joined #haiku
qwebirc82926 has quit [Quit: Page closed]
Animortis has quit [Quit: leaving]
bbjimmy_64 has quit [Quit: Vision[0.10.3]: i've been blurred!]
jmairboeck has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
HAL_6900 has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
gouchi has joined #haiku
gouchi has quit []
AlwaysLivid has joined #haiku
tqh has quit [Quit: Leaving]
tuaris has joined #haiku
andreasdr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]