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<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-2/±0] https://git.io/Jz9h5
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 48a054d - ArmagetronAd: bump version
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<beaglejoe>
Hi, I'm trying to setup HaikuPorter on 32-bit Haiku. I cloned the repo, tried haikuporter --version : says python3 No such file or directory. Do I need python 37, 38, or 39?
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<beaglejoe>
nm
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-2/±0] https://git.io/JzHRp
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes a9dc510 - EndlessSky: bump version
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<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JzH2J
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 2ec010b - EndlessSky: add python3 for scons
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-2/±0] https://git.io/JzHa7
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 87bed43 - Minetest: bump version
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<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-1/±0] https://git.io/JzHr2
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes db3019d - Simsu: bump version
<beaglejoe>
How do you build secondaryArch (x86) with HaikuPorter?
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 1e0fdd6d983d - accelerants common:BWindowScreen.CanControlFrameBuffer() now says OK. Note that these mode.flags are _outputs_ from the accelerants
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] fe8f9e23261b - intel_extreme: set B_SCROLL, share current mode. Cloning and BWindowScreen now work OK.
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<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JzQXa
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 46cf134 - The Powder Toy: add build for secondary arch
<skirst>
hobby project i've been working on/off for about a decade lol. no public releases, but i intend to release the code at some point. ported it to haiku because it was so easy and i'm an old Be user :)
<Begasus>
looks nice skirst
<jt15s[m]>
Would be great to see it on HaikuDepot someday Skirst!
<skirst>
thanks, Begasus
<skirst>
jt15s[m], that's the plan!
<skirst>
if anyone familiar with mediakit is around, is there a way to set the buffer format/size for a BMediaRecorder? i seem to only get int32 with a size of 2048. not good for realtime lol
<skirst>
these are stero frames as well
<skirst>
*stereo
<andreasdr>
Very nice. Looks super professional
<skirst>
andreasdr, yeah. i don't really dig the flashy interfaces of recent virtual modular synths like VCV rack. it's meant to look like a lab :D
<andreasdr>
For me MediaKit is 1-2 decades ago. No idea right now.
<andreasdr>
:)
<andreasdr>
What UI framework do you use?
<andreasdr>
Is this Haiku native?
<andreasdr>
I have a synthesizer laying around on my hard drive. Not sure yet what Ill do with it. It also builds and runs on Haiku.
<skirst>
Qt5 does the heavy lifting. it works on any platform that has Qt5 support, as long as i have an audio and midi backend written for the platform
<skirst>
midi is optional though, it has a "null" backend ;)
<andreasdr>
Ja. It has a UI which was common in early 2000.
<skirst>
little acid machine. oh the 90's
<andreasdr>
I would have lots of plans with it, If I would have some more time.
<andreasdr>
Yes.
<andreasdr>
NO TIME.
<andreasdr>
Its a pity.
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<andreasdr>
Actually its so fucking small code wise. 3 months of work and it could go beta.
<skirst>
do it!
<andreasdr>
With all features
<andreasdr>
Money. Its alll about money. I just can not afford to do so.
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<skirst>
i hear ya. if i were paid for unfinished projects, i'd bever have to work again
<andreasdr>
Yep.
<skirst>
*never
<skirst>
i've written game engines that never saw the light of day because i lost interest or moved on lol
<andreasdr>
Well maybe things will change in future. We have a small team that work on our 3d engine and a game. I guess the game will be released end of the year. Fingers crossed that it makes some morey. Then Ill have more time.
<andreasdr>
some money
<andreasdr>
Looks promising if you ask me :)
<skirst>
that's awesome! best of luck to ya
<andreasdr>
Thank you Sir :)
<andreasdr>
So what do you think about your Synth? When will it be released in some sort of form.
<andreasdr>
Haiku could use GREAT software like yours.
<andreasdr>
But with HaikuPorts it all looks so much better already. Kudos.
<skirst>
totally. full 100% open source. Qt kinda dictates that unless i gut the UI completely and move to some kinda opengl/vulkan/sdl/etc.. maybe an IMGUI
<andreasdr>
Damn. Thats not so nice!!!
<andreasdr>
But true unless you pay Qt5 AFAIK
<andreasdr>
There are license models also for proprietary use.
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<andreasdr>
Just telling if you want to go closed source.
<skirst>
when i started the project, Qt still used an LGPL license. now the codebase is so invested in it, it's hard to decide what to do. bite the bullet and rewrite all the UI code, or stick with Qt5
<skirst>
love Qt's signal/slot but that can be overcome with modern c++ and some elbow-grease :D
<andreasdr>
Yes. I know QT5 a bit.
<andreasdr>
Its actually pretty nice.
<andreasdr>
Hmm.
<andreasdr>
Everyone uses IMGUI, but it requires some 3d hardware support.
<andreasdr>
What about UIs like WXWidget? I think there are more UIs out there.
<andreasdr>
We have a nice UI too, but it also requires 3d hardware support. Also your UI looks advanced like hell Sir.
<andreasdr>
But I see
<skirst>
i've used wx in the past in my professional work. it's ok. a bit clunky. gives me nightmares of MFC
<andreasdr>
You have lots of UI code, not easy to port to somewhere else.
<andreasdr>
Ah Ok.
<skirst>
so yeah, you understand the situation it seems :)
<andreasdr>
Yes.
<skirst>
i don't want to require a gpu unless it's necessary, and that seems to be were the world is headed, sadly.
<andreasdr>
You could try to roll your own UI. TDME2-UI took like 1-2 years in total I guess, so its not that easy also. :(
<Begasus>
never really got wxwidgets to work properly on Haiku
<andreasdr>
Damn.
<skirst>
i've written GL IMGUI's in the past, still have all the code lol
<andreasdr>
Ok. I would ask QT owners if they would have a license model that works for you both.
<Begasus>
last try was for the scummvm config tool, it builds/starts, but it's not usable
<skirst>
what's left? GTK? nope. lol
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<andreasdr>
I guess there are tons of UIs out there. But as its not feasible to port away from QT just ask QT for a license model that could work for you.
<andreasdr>
QT also is a VERY NICE application framework.
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<jt15s[m]>
Would it be possible to use Haiku's native API?
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<skirst>
it is. just a shame about the licensing, but i get it. they are looking after their best interests. fine. but i think i should gut it and come up with a new UI rather than make the leap to Qt6
<skirst>
jt15s[m], i haven't looked into that option as i want to keep it as portable as possible
<jt15s[m]>
Ah ok, that's understandable.
<jt15s[m]>
Going a bit off track here, I think there was a big discussion about porting our API to other platforms a few years ago
<jezek2>
skirst: you can go closed source with qt, LGPL allows that, you just need either to link to it dynamically, or provide object files and build scripts for static compilation
<skirst>
jezek2, Qt hasn't been LGPL for some time. just including a header makes you GPL.
<jezek2>
really? I thought it was just some modules
<skirst>
jezek2, i think that was true when they were heavily investing in QML
<jezek2>
QML seems to be LGPL too
<skirst>
it's chaos. i feel like i should just roll my own gui. it may take some time but i'll probably be happier for it.
<andreasdr>
Goooooood luck.
<andreasdr>
Sir.
<jezek2>
yeah creating own GUI system is nice, but it takes a long time to make it featurefull :)
<jezek2>
I recommend to take a slow path and everything properly than trying to do a lot of widgets at once
<skirst>
well, even my Qt5 "widgets" are pretty heavily abstracted. so you start at the base and work your way up :)
<jezek2>
or if you have never did any GUI implementations then perhaps bunch of prototypes first is better idea :D
<jezek2>
and it's not for everyone... not everybody enjoys it, not everybody has the right attentions to details (for example people at Sun made quite nice API with Swing but failed on various details)
<jezek2>
like properly handling painting events, properly mimicking native widgets (there were quite bad things there that were close enough but not really like wrong colors or other stuff)
<skirst>
i've written imguis in the past, so i fully understand the concept of those. and i've worked with just about every major retained-mode gui framework in existence
<jezek2>
yep then you're good to go :)
<skirst>
gui is hard. it always will be.
<jezek2>
in my latest GUI library (probably the most seriously done, minus some special-purpose) I think I get most of the things right but took a lot of effort
<jezek2>
naming of things is extremely hard
<jezek2>
it affects the structure and other things, how you think about it when using it or extending it
<jezek2>
and of course I have barely any widgets :D
<skirst>
that's always been the problem with retained-mode. keeping track of resources
<jezek2>
GC helps
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<jezek2>
I sort of don't like the Qt approach of making things simpler by various ownerships, it's easy to mismanage that
<Begasus>
'lo Kokito ! :)
<skirst>
i call them std::shared_ptr and std::unique_ptr :)
<jezek2>
yeah that, or explicit ref/unref
<skirst>
std::weak_ptr :)
<skirst>
c++ has memory management solved at this point. you just gotta re-learn c++ is all lol
<jezek2>
I don't like C++ that much though, because while in theory it's really nice, there is always some dark corner that is hard to see and easy to get into eg by mistake or just a typo
<skirst>
tends to happen mostly with external dependencies (read: not invented here), yeah, i'll give you that
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<Kokito>
Hi Begasus!
<skirst>
i'm too much of an old curmudgeon to learn another language. too old, too cold to learn Rust, Zim, or any other what i call "boutique" languages
<Kokito>
Playing around with Web+. Works quite well with many sites now. I am pleasantly surprised!
<jezek2>
skirst: yeah I've felt that vacuum too personally so I've created my own by accident =)
<jezek2>
skirst: at first it was meant to be just a very simple language for a very specific purpose...
<skirst>
jezek2, yep. then... add EVERYTHING!!!
<skirst>
been there. i heavily modified lua 5.0.2 back in the day. called it "mond" lol. 50+ patches later it wasn't even lua anymore
<jezek2>
and then somehow I've managed to make it general purpose while retaining it's simplicity, I've added only the very needed bits and made a mechanism to allow extending the language arbitrarily
<jezek2>
yeah I know what you mean
<jezek2>
but I've managed to get an unchanging simple core, and ability to create your own extensions
<skirst>
had a full graphical debugger/profiler, everything lol
<jezek2>
so the features are opt-in not opt-out
<Begasus>
long time no see Kokito , how are you doing?
<Kokito>
Begasus, I am doing well. Happily semi-retired.
<Begasus>
cool! got a few years to go myself Kokito :)
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<ffog>
andreasdr and skirst -- really awesome synth stuff :)
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<skirst>
thanks, ffog!
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<beaglejoe>
skirst: you may want to look at Juce for UI https://juce.com they are audi focused
<beaglejoe>
*audio
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<andreasdr>
Thank you frog!
<andreasdr>
ffog!
<andreasdr>
Typo sorry. :D
<skirst>
hi beaglejoe, thanks. juce also has restrictive licenses, and it seems more geared for plugin development
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<skirst>
my app is standalone, doesn't support vst, and likely never will. it's more of an audio DAW/IDE in the form of a virtual analog modular synth.
<skirst>
a playground for exploring sound, if you will :)
<beaglejoe>
skirst: been a few years since I used Juce, I didn't use it for audio, just general UI. I remember most people on forums were audio devs
<skirst>
also, trying to keep dependencies to a minimum
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<andreasdr>
skirst: I tend also to do that. Nice decision.
<skirst>
on haiku, it only requires qt5, luajit, flac, and libspeexdsp (i currently use it's resampler)
<skirst>
flac obviously inherits vorbis, etc.. but minimal
<andreasdr>
How to exactly ship a commercial app to Haiku with dependencies by HaikuPorts. Just asking.
<andreasdr>
I mean does HPKG does know about dependencies?
<skirst>
rather flac inherits the ogg library, not vorbis.
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<skirst>
and of course, mediakit for audio input/output and i use midi2 for midi support. not dependencies though, no more than linking to kernel32 on a windows system lol
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<beaglejoe>
bbl
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<humdinger>
andreasdr: it does.
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<humdinger>
hpkg knowing dependencies that is
<andreasdr>
humdinger: thank you! Very nice!
<humdinger>
commercial closed source apps can too be built via haikuporter
<skirst>
yeah haiku's package manager is pretty dope
<humdinger>
or you can use the "package" command to do all of it manually
<skirst>
andreasdr, checked out your TDME2 engine, nice work! looks awesome
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<andreasdr>
skirst: Not yet ready yet. We are in alpha. Give us like 3 to 6 months more and it will rock!
<andreasdr>
Thank you.
<skirst>
andreasdr, i'm perpetually in alpha. i only increase the version number to make myself feel better after completing a milestone :)
<andreasdr>
Hell yes. Why not!!!
<andreasdr>
We will move after some features like complete "Redo/Undo", "Copy and Paste", Visual Scripting, ... to beta.
<andreasdr>
So just set up a milestone where you can move to beta.
<andreasdr>
I have learned some years ago: Alpha: Not feature complete, with bugs, Beta: Feature Complete, with bugs.
<andreasdr>
If major bugs are removed to can leave beta.
<andreasdr>
to = you
<skirst>
i'm somewhere in between lol
<andreasdr>
Happens. Why not! Also I learned. Just to continue.
<andreasdr>
At some point you are done :DDD
<skirst>
always finding new thinks to tinker with as the TODO list gets no shorter
<skirst>
things
<andreasdr>
Ok. This is no good idea.
<andreasdr>
Move some points to a dot version.
<andreasdr>
Like 1.1 or something
<andreasdr>
I could add also tons of stuff.
<andreasdr>
But you need a reasonable plan.
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<skirst>
yes, indeed. i did that mid-summer when i picked the project back up. find reasonable goals and achieve them.
<andreasdr>
Also I strongly suggest to you, that you ask QT for a license that works for you and them. Porting to somewhere else is just a HUGE WASTE OF TIME.
<andreasdr>
Also if you consider that QT is really very nice.
<andreasdr>
Just my idea.
<skirst>
just want v 1.0 to be the original idea, feature-complete, smoothe as warm butter
<andreasdr>
:)
<skirst>
it's not so much about license, Qt was something familiar, having used it professionally for years. i just don't know what direction that company is going in
<skirst>
this is 100% open source. it's just that my UI is so heavily invested in it. heavy use of QGraphics*
<andreasdr>
I see. Ask for a license. Release. You can move on later. :) Sorry, just my idea. If you depend on someone you just depend. It happens. I ll be quiet now :)
<andreasdr>
But keep us updated please.
<andreasdr>
Or release as open source, like donation software.
<andreasdr>
This could also work for you.
<andreasdr>
Set up a patreon or something.
<andreasdr>
:D
<skirst>
andreasdr, you're good man :) i appreciate your input
<andreasdr>
Very kind. Thank you!
<andreasdr>
Sorry actually I have failed until now to release a own-rolled software. But ill do very soon :)
<andreasdr>
There is so many time to spent for a really good software.
<andreasdr>
And then you have to pay you taxes and rent and such.
<skirst>
i'm not really looking for money, i just want it to be cool. so when it's out there in thw wild, others will think the same :)
<andreasdr>
Hm. I am not anymore "driven by cool". I just do things that I like.
<andreasdr>
With a small plan to make a living out of it.
<skirst>
^this
<skirst>
that's what i meant
<andreasdr>
Ok Sir.
<skirst>
i make a well enough living but it's nice to have an exit strategy :)
<andreasdr>
If your live is nice, why to change it? I always suffer from "not having enough money". LOL.
<Begasus>
hi humdinger ! :)
<skirst>
i have enough money to feed myself, and have a roof over my head, and persue hobbies. that's well enough in my books. i just like writing software :)
<skirst>
i wrote a virtual modular synth because i can't afford a real one lol
<andreasdr>
Haha :D
<andreasdr>
Cool.
<PulkoMandy>
there is an agreement between the owners of Qt and the nonprofit that runs KDE that makes sure there will always be an open source version of Qt. Under le LGPL if the company does it, but if they stop, KDE can release a BSD licensed version
<PulkoMandy>
so you should be safe with that at least
<andreasdr>
For me one thing is also important: Pay the rent, pay the taxes, the rest of the time: do what you fucking want to do.
<andreasdr>
PulkoMandy: Cool.
<skirst>
sure, anyone is free to fork Qt at anytime. should i gamble on it? or move on?
<andreasdr>
GPL and fork? Not sure about this?
<skirst>
andreasdr, amen about the important things
<andreasdr>
:)
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<skirst>
i'll probably just fork off my own project and work on my own UI, and wait and see what the KDE folks do. that seems more fun :D
<skirst>
KDE isn't going away any time soon
<andreasdr>
Ok. Its your live. Do whatever you need to do :) But its a pity for all the user that would love to use your software already.
<skirst>
i'm my own worst enemy lol
<skirst>
i need to think on it for sure
<andreasdr>
live = life
<andreasdr>
Have fun while thinking. :D
<skirst>
shouldn't we all?
<andreasdr>
Sure.
<skirst>
maybe the goal should be get something out by the end of the year. merry christmas i hope! :)
<andreasdr>
If you ask me: I did a UI on my own, because I had strong requirements, that I even met. My UI is actually a game UI, because it was designed to be like that. But I can also use it for our editor. But If I would not have those design goals and could not find a UI satisfying it, I would maybe not have done it.
<andreasdr>
"could find"
<andreasdr>
Yes Sir.
<andreasdr>
That sounds feasible.
<skirst>
it totally is in it's current state
<skirst>
currently the only haiku issues i have are with mediakit and an issue where it leaks memory with Qt dialogs. i haven't tracked that down yet
<andreasdr>
Damn
<andreasdr>
Just ask the polite developers here :)
<andreasdr>
:D
<andreasdr>
How long do you use Haiku now?
<Begasus>
or in the forum
<skirst>
andreasdr, Haiku, over the years and years have tried it out from curiousity. i used Be back in the late 90's early 2000's.
<skirst>
moved on to linux like everyone else lol
<skirst>
or a *bsd. sorry folks :)
<andreasdr>
Ok, but now you are hanging out here :D
<skirst>
from b1 to b3 it really shows that this OS has potential. and i would like to support it
<andreasdr>
Agree.
<andreasdr>
Ill have soon some fun here If my new graphics board arrives. Looking forward to it.
<andreasdr>
WED
<andreasdr>
I guess
<andreasdr>
I had some fun at the beginning of the year, but I needed to work on our editor, so I had to do this.
<andreasdr>
ANDREAS DOES WHAT ANDREAS NEED TO DO :DDD
<andreasdr>
NEEDS
<andreasdr>
Do you have coding sessions using Haiku?
<skirst>
i had a dedicated haswell laptop for haiku, but it crapped out. it was nice and everything worked. it was FAAAAAAST
<andreasdr>
Id love to use Haiku more, but it needs 3d hardware acceleration for me, also working mail would be nice, and an improved WebPositive.
<skirst>
now i'm back to VM :(, but yes, when working on haiku, i use haiku
<andreasdr>
Damn. VM.
<andreasdr>
Ok
<andreasdr>
I listened here a bit, seems like WebPositive has improved a lot. Will test soon.
<andreasdr>
BTW: Did it improve with BETA3? Or do I need to run a "current"?
<skirst>
but my synth actually runs quite well in the VM. just can't go overboard on the sample rate/oversampling
<PulkoMandy>
andreasdr, there are fixes after beta3 and there are more fixes that are still work in progress
<andreasdr>
Nice!
<andreasdr>
So I will go nightly.
<PulkoMandy>
I am working a bit on non-haiku things at the moment (need to change my mind and play with other things from time to time) so I didn't put a lot of effort into it lately. But other people are, so that's good at least :)
<andreasdr>
Ok. I totally understand. Nice that people are kicking in.
<andreasdr>
What are you working on? If I may ask?
<PulkoMandy>
lots of things :)
<andreasdr>
Ok Sir.
<PulkoMandy>
the project that has visible results so far is porting https://ace.cpcscene.net (Amstrad CPC emulator) to Haiku
<andreasdr>
I am currently also doing some vacation like vacation :D
<andreasdr>
Taus us still Haiku related :D
<PulkoMandy>
I'm currently working on documenting the VTech V.Smile and trying to write software for it (with a team or other people interested in that)
<andreasdr>
Nice.
<PulkoMandy>
and this weekend I made some progress on an interface to convert Gravis Gamepad Pro to USB because I want to use my old gamepads
<andreasdr>
Fucking auto correction. I meant "This is still ..."
<andreasdr>
Nice.
<PulkoMandy>
which will probably end up back in Haiku, working on the input preferences and adding a nice joysticks/gamepads page there, we'll see
<andreasdr>
Cool.
<skirst>
PulkoMandy, that is my favorite game pad ever
<PulkoMandy>
and then writing some games to use these gamepads, but I don't know when I'll get to that
<PulkoMandy>
yes, it's the best gamepad :) I have the adapter working but it's a mess of wires around a development board currently. I have ordered a proper PCB and will make a first batch of 10 adapters. We'll see what happens with this from then, if there is lots of demand from people wanting one or not
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<skirst>
nice. reminds me of an old usb adapter i got for an n64 gamepad back in the day. totally diy
<andreasdr>
Nice
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<skirst>
i've done pcb mods in the past. usually guitar pedals or actual hardware synths. not very good at it these days lol
<skirst>
soldering surface mount componets require eyes and hands much younger and steady than mine
<skirst>
through hole, i'm you're man :D
<ffog>
so its just 1 day so far with Haiku bare metal on this laptop, but i'm really liking it so far
<ffog>
i dont think my sound hardware works, will have to look into that
<ffog>
wifi works great though, digging into stuff on HakiuDepot
<skirst>
ffog, that was my experience as well on a haswell era laptop. wifi, nic, usb, audio all worked great. it had an intel hd audio adapter
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<skirst>
but the ac power regulator shit out and it would lose power randomly. all my batteries for it were dead
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<ffog>
oo wow
<ffog>
yea the battery is almost shot in this laptop, but it works long enough like a UPS hah
<ffog>
my sound hardware shows up in Devices, but i can't get anything out of the speakers
<skirst>
ffog, if in the media preferences, it shows a valid mixer, and a valid sample rate it should be working
<ffog>
things appear to be fine in the media preferences, i tried 44.1 and 48khz
<ffog>
it defaulted to 192000hz which didn't seem right
<skirst>
not unless you have some sort of usb audio interface, no. strange
<waddlesplash>
it defaults to the highest available, known bug
<waddlesplash>
anyway, HDA is kind of hit or miss, it works on some hardware and not on others
<waddlesplash>
some major issue in our driver I suppose
<ffog>
gotcha, maybe i could try an audio interface as well
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<Begasus>
heading down here, g'night peeps
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<andreasdr>
Good night
<Not-5726>
[haiku/website] pulkomandy pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] https://git.io/JzdYY
<Not-5726>
[haiku/website] pulkomandy 1b202a1 - September activity report.
<rennj>
burning the midnight oil!
<rennj>
heh noon
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<skirst>
is there a way to get a more friendly name of a device using BMidiEndpoint? i'm using the Name() function and it seems to return the device path. like /dev/midi/usb/0-0
<skirst>
oh, the USBDeskbar app seems to have the correct name. i'll go poke around there...
<waddlesplash>
does PatchBay have a better name?
<skirst>
let me check...
<skirst>
no. just graphical images of a midi din plugs, and a one with a ? for my app. however, the tooltips for said controls also display the raw device path
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] ae61e1b716e7 - USB bus drivers: Return error when combining other transfers with a fragmented one.
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<skirst>
using the device path works fine for my app, no problems with actual functionallity. in fact, it works great! just trying to polish things up a bit. /dev/midi/usb/0-0 isn't very inviting
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