ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | | Nightlies: | Bugtracker: | SCM: | Logs: | Matrix: | XMPP:
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<B2IA> (AGMS) Butler message for bbjimmy_64 I see on the web depot mailing list that the repository file format is changing, you may wish to update your server to provide the new file (and maybe the old one too for compatibility with older Haiku?).
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<B2IA> (bbjimmy_64) butler messages
<B2IA> (bbjimmy) butlet message AGME thanks
<B2IA> (bbjimmy) butler help
<B2IA> (bbjimmy) butler message for AGMS thanks
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<Begasus> g'morning peeps
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2]
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 6960863 - php,revbump, use ICU74 (#10480)
<coolcoder613> Hi Begasus
<Begasus> Hi coolcoder613
<Begasus> How's it going there?
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<Habbie> waddlesplash, two unplanned reboots of 57754, no KDL
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] pulkomandy pushed 1 commit to openssl3 [+0/-0/±8]
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] pulkomandy aff867d - Enable Openssl3, bump recipes that depend on it and are used by Haiku
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] pulkomandy pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0]
<botifico> [haikuports/haikuports] pulkomandy a43d0ed - update ca_root_certificates_java to match ca_root_certificates
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<HaikuUser2> aku suka
<HaikuUser2> aku suka main livetopia party! :)
<Begasus> ?
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<Begasus> openssl3 build OK on 64bit R1B4
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<Begasus> Haiku build on 64bit image boots OK in qemu (WebPositive + pkgman working fine)
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<phschafft> good morning, good evening. :)
* coolcoder613 waves
<Begasus> Hello there phschafft
* phschafft gets his cookies ready for the day, offering both coolcoder613 and Begasus some.
<phschafft> coolcoder613: hope your recording went well.
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<Begasus> Thanks, can proceed now :)
<Begasus> k, Konsole 24.05.0 now builds/works :)
<Begasus> saves us the work from nuking dbus :)
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<zard> Tip of the day: Use the CDPATH environment variable to make cd-ing to directories you commonly use easier
* zard updates his CDPATH variable :^)
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<win8linux[m]> Andreas Kling splits Ladybird off from SerenityOS, steps down as SerenityOS BDFL:
<zard> Nice. It'll be interesting to see what comes of Ladybird
<zard> A nice podcast episode covering Andreas Kling's involvement with SerenityOS:
<Molnija> BDF-a-while
<zard> Oh, yes, my usage of :^) was inspired by SerenityOS. I didn't know about it previously
<zard> Lest it sound like I'm an expert in SerenityOS: I have never booted it up. :)
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<Begasus> k, let's see if we can mount this 32bit image created with openssl3 ...
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<Begasus> in a bit*
<zard> Andreas Kling used to work on WebKit. I see mentions of him occassionally in the commits/docs. He should know pretty well what he's doing with Ladybird.
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<qwebirc10070> #help
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<qwebirc10070> #nickname ParseAsBNF
<zard> Use / instead of # to start commands :)
<qwebirc10070> Thank you very much...
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<ParseAsBNF> Hello,
<zard> Hello ParseAsBNF :)
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<Begasus> Hello :)
<ParseAsBNF> I would like to know if there is a hardware accelerated BWindow ? BDirectWindow is quicker than BWindow. Is there a future GPU card for Haiku ? Or BDirectWindow let's you code the 3D graphics routines ?
<ParseAsBNF> I used the Invalidate method to refresh my drawings in my application.
<zard> No hardware accelarationg is currently available for Haiku. But, believe me, people want it :-)
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<ParseAsBNF> The BeOS had an OpenGL license. I still have GLUT under BeOS 5 Pro on a 200MHz PentiumII. Though Haiku is not 3D accelerated, now that it can run on a 2GHz machine there is no need of acceleration.
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<ParseAsBNF> I am still accustomed to the CodeWarrior IDE and didn't make the switch to Haiku. I had problems with my USB sticks with Haiku. I have all the books of the BeOS like The Be File System from Dominic Giampaolo.
<ParseAsBNF> The Be File System was a 64-bit database file system.
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<zard> We still use it! Database feature is barely used outside of the original Be apps though, it seems.
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<zard> But we do have someone working on a project that makes use of it:
<nosycat> Times have changed. If you take a Styled Edit document out of Haiku, it leaves all the formatting behind.
<ParseAsBNF> I have read all the BeNewsletters, and found how to enter in the Kernel Debugging Landing and how to stop the OS - look at the teams and threads - and rerun the OS. I don't think there is such a STOP and GO in the Linux OS.
<nosycat> In a networked world, that's kind of a problem.
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<ParseAsBNF> I very much like the app in Haiku that allows you to see the objects in the memory to debug. But I much prefer to use the BeIDE with its window to show the variables. It's useful for the casts.
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<ParseAsBNF> I am not a fan of gdb. I prefer the BeIDE in which you can put STOP in the source code on the left of a line of code. We have nothing compared to Visual Studio Code.
<ParseAsBNF> I adapted to vi with the "h" "j" "k" "l" keys for the arrow keys of the cursor and 'x' to delete a character. I used the ':set nu' and ':set nonu' too.
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<zard> These days, you can put debugger() to stop execution
<ParseAsBNF> I am not a confirmed C++ developer but instead I would say I am a C developer that only use C++ for the graphics stuff and apps of the BeOS. OK, I'll try to remember to check the documentation for debugger().
<zard> Oh dear, doesn't look like we have documentation.
<zard> Looks like "#include <debugger.h>" "debugger('a message');"
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<ParseAsBNF> Thank you very much.
<ParseAsBNF> Does Haiku-OS runs well with VirtualBox ? How many Gb of disk drive does it need ?
<zard> I'll guess yes and around 5GB. Though you can't resize the drive so you might want more.
<nosycat> I've installed the 32-bit beta 4 in 4GB, but it's *very* tight.
<nosycat> Planning to set aside twice as much next time I try in Qemu.
<B2IA> (AGMS) ParseAsBNF Haiku works well enough in VirtualBox, there are tips online for it and a few tips from myself at
<B2IA> (AGMS) The big one is to use only one CPU core in VirtualBox, else it's slower!
<ParseAsBNF> When I used USB sticks of 32Gb and 64Gb I appreciated the Software Wallet which comes with all the applications you can dream of. I dowloaded VIM and the IRC client...
<ParseAsBNF> The C++ tutorials of DarkWhyrm are very interesting but it shows you you cannot create an app in a week.
<nosycat> Seek a second opinion. C++ is very poorly taught as a general rule.
<Habbie> i have found that in creating apps, C++ is not what limits me :>
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<ParseAsBNF> I made a graphical TIC TAC TOE with a modified Sample Code program from the BeOS 5 Pro using a text box, an input box and a button. I also made a little BREAK OUT with lines of boxes and a circle for the ball with the invalidate method to refresh the window.
<nosycat> Sounds like fun!
<ParseAsBNF> I tried to program a BREAK OUT with NeXTSTEP but I realized that the breakout sample code of NeXTSTEP was programmed in PostScript. So I tried to program in PostScript lines, boxes and circles. But I understand now that BeOS let's you program lines and circles freely.
<ParseAsBNF> You don't need to program in FORTH or RPL like PostScript with the BeOS.
<ParseAsBNF> People under estimate the BeOS and HaikuOS.
<ParseAsBNF> I still have to program a BREAK OUT with XCode but I don't know how to draw lines and circles avoiding PostScript. It seems there is a modern graphics box object in which you can draw lines and circles without PostScript.
<nosycat> That's odd. Didn't Apple invent the Canvas2D API?
<ParseAsBNF> I used to recompile the GLUT sample code with XCode and I think there is a graphics box to use OpenGL.
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<nosycat> There used to be.
<nosycat> Oh, hi.
<ParseAsBNF> Have a good day everybody... Thank you very much... Good bye...
<nosycat> Take care!
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<Begasus> k, Haiku 32bit image build on 32bit R1B4 with the new openssl3 still boots OK with qemu
<Begasus> that's as far as my testing skills go I guess :)
<nosycat> Good enough!
<Begasus> Think so too :)
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<Begasus> saw some of my dogs zardshard?
<zard> I think a picture somewhere
<zard> btw, yes, that sent me a notification :)
<Begasus> heh
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<boody24[m]> I get this build failure while building icon-o-matic
<boody24[m]> I was building it with jam -qa
<zard> Try `pkgman install bin:bison`
<zard> ps, if your goal is to just build icon-o-matic, you can use "jam -qa Icon-O-Matic"
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<boody24[m]> as you see I'm in the icon-o-matic directory
<boody24[m]> zard: this doesn't work from the root directory
<Begasus> iirc that would be "-q" zard, not "-qa"?
<zard> Ah, -a causes it to start from the beginning every time! Best disable that unless your build happens to get seriously messed up somehow
<boody24[m]> zard: this is my first time building anything from haiku
<boody24[m]> shoudn't it be -a
<zard> No, it will figure out what it hasn't built yet and what needs to be recompiled because of your changes automatically :)
<boody24[m]> ok
<boody24[m]> Will try only -q now and update you)
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<zard> Interesting fact: jam tells if a file has been modified by checking if the file's date modified is more recent the the built file
<zard> It will then rebuild it and everything that depended on that file
<boody24[m]> aha
<Begasus> still good here :) Chmod1 generated/objects/haiku/x86_64/release/apps/icon-o-matic/Icon-O-Matic
<Begasus> would be strange as I did a full image earlier :P
<zard> Chmod1: last command that is run when building Icon-O-Matic
<Begasus> yeah :)
<Begasus> ah! Amarok updated ...
<Begasus> lol, I guess I need to rebuild curl for the newer openssl :)
<zard> Nooo, don't rebuild everything (that would take several hours)
<zard> *sigh* don't see a way around it. Hopefully ccache still can do it
<zard> Mmm, OOM killer killed my VM
<boody24[m]> <zard> "Try `pkgman install bin:bison`" <- That's why it was failing)
<Begasus> hope you didn't loose all your work?
<zard> Should be fine :)
<Begasus> phew :)
<zard> I formed a habit of saving a lot a long time ago. Obviously motivated by losing work one too many times :P
<Begasus> and still ... forgot to switch back to master branch when doing the updates on gear24 here today :P
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<zard> Strange... a tab took 4 GB. Likely the culprit for crashing qemu
* zard reopens the tab, keeps an eye on it
<boody24[m]> Now after trying to run Icon-O-Matic itself I get seg fault even though I didn't change any code
<boody24[m]> I use ubuntu btw
<zard> Ubuntu with Haiku in a VM or compiled on Ubuntu?
<boody24[m]> no
<boody24[m]> ubuntu itself
<zard> Launching Icon-O-Matic in Ubuntu?
<boody24[m]> yes exactly
<waddlesplash> well that won't work lol
<waddlesplash> IOM only runs on Haiku
<zard> Surprised you manage to compile it, though
<waddlesplash> I don't know why it would "segfault", probably it would just fail to run
<waddlesplash> zard: probably boody24[m] just built IOM for Haiku
<Begasus> the "linux" in the generated path should have gave that away :)
<boody24[m]> waddlesplash: you mean in a vm?
<boody24[m]> not at all
<waddlesplash> IOM can't be built for Linux
<waddlesplash> it can be built *on* Linux
<waddlesplash> but all the binaries you get will be for Haiku
<boody24[m]> ohh interseting
<boody24[m]> I should do all what i've done in haiku
<zard> You *might* be able to use to run it on Linux, but I've never tried using it before, so, no guarantees
<boody24[m]> is this exclusive to IOM?
<boody24[m]> or all apps?
<zard> But I recommend using a VM unless you have a reason to avoid one
<zard> Probably it only supports a subset of all apps
<boody24[m]> I don't have a reason but It will much slower
<boody24[m]> * a reason to avoid but It
<boody24[m]> * a reason to avoid but It, * It will be much slower
<zard> If you're using qemu, enabling kvm will make it *much* faster
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<Begasus> waiting for that on Haiku ;)
<zard> Indeed, we have a GSoC project working on it :)
<Begasus> I know, got my hopes up on dalme_ :)
<zard> Go dalme_! :)
<nosycat> It's amazing that anything runs at all in Qemu without hardware acceleration.
<nosycat> Well, NetBSD does.
<Begasus> no progress on Amarok here
<zard> boody24[m]: In general, a VM with hardware accelaration will run 10x or so faster than a VM without it
<dalme_> Hopefully I'll be able to make it work Begasus zard
<Begasus> np dalme_, any progress is progress, so kudos there!
<zard> Heh, tis the reality, isn't it? You'll never know if you can do it until it's finished
<zard> Personally, I have no idea how far I'll get with WebKit
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<Begasus[m]> if I never looked into updating the kde frameworks I wouldn't have known how far I would get either zard :)
<dalme_> zard: webkit looks inmense to me. I wouldn't even know where to begin with
<zard> Yeah, it is. And thinly documented. So far I'm just fixing one crash after another.
<Begasus> progress! :)
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<zard> :) From the parts that are documented relatively well, I can tell that it has abstraction layer on top of abstraction layer
<zard> The DOM tree is abstracted as a render object tree is abstracted as a render layer tree is abstraced as a graphics layer tree!
<zard> Then, you can draw the graphics layer tree. But drawing has plenty of abstraction as well!
<Begasus> now you lost "me" :)
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<Begasus> closing down here, cu peeps!
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<dalme_> I'm really looking forward to your project zard. WebPositive works OK when using just one tab at a time, but having many opened at the same leads to well-known crashes and blocks..
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<Andreas0211> haiku 4 ever
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<coolcoder613_> Good morning
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<phschafft> Good morning coolcoder613_ :)
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* coolcoder613 pings zardshard
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