<dovsienko>
Haiku has been in the "potential improvements" list at https://www.tcpdump.org/ci.html for a while because otherwise the CI on Haiku is something I have to do manually from time to time
<waddlesplash>
nephele: oh, you too? I can only access it in private tabs atm
<nephele>
I was in the middle of answering a ticket about the email server from dovsienko and suddenly trac redirected to www.haiku-os.org
<waddlesplash>
I guess deleting my cookies may help, but it's still very annoying
<waddlesplash>
nielx[m] is looking at it
<nephele>
dovsienko: I looked at your ticket for sso.haiku-os.org. Your explanation of the server validating a sender adress makes no sense to me, i don't know how one would acomplish this protocol wise
<nephele>
However, there simply is no mx record for sso.haiku-os.org
<nephele>
but there is one for haiku-os.org, and that points to mx.ams3.haiku-os.org
<nephele>
and that is also indicated in a SPF record for sso.haiku-os.org
<dovsienko>
nephele: SMTP does this, at the stage that involves "MAIL FROM" and "RCPT TO", before "DATA"
<nielx[m]>
nephele: it went down 10 mins ago, it did restart, can you access it now or do you have the same issue as waddlesplash?
<nephele>
How does that work with a protocol that involves hops?
<dovsienko>
or rather it allows to do that, and sender validation has been a common practice for many years
<dovsienko>
or, that's a good point, sso. is a CNAME
<nephele>
dovsienko: the haiku-os.org mail server only has SPF anyhow, no DKIM, DMARC... no ipv6, no starttls
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<nephele>
so I think there are severall issues we should improve there
<waddlesplash>
we definitely send messages with DKIM...
<dovsienko>
let me send a test e-mail to see where it bounces
<nephele>
nielx[m]: I'm not sure. curl seems to be able to access trac but webpositive redirects
<nephele>
waddlesplash: There is no DNSSEC on haiku-os.org according to internet.nl. Without that any DKIM records are irrelevant and can't be verified
<waddlesplash>
they are verified anyway
<nephele>
no
<waddlesplash>
well, they are in my experience of testing mail servers, idk
<nephele>
any well configured mail server will reject them if there is no way to validate the DKIM record with DNSSEC
<waddlesplash>
I don't think that's been my experience
<nephele>
Yes, haiku-os.org also has no dmarc record that enforces DKIM
<nephele>
so the signature is a suggestion at best, and is not possible to be validated
<waddlesplash>
there are many mail servers that reject our mails if we don't sign them with DKIM
<waddlesplash>
so this definitely isn't a placebo
<nephele>
Sounds like badly configured mail servers.
<nephele>
Not that it is easy to correctly configure postfix .-.
<nephele>
Last email i got from trac@haiku-os.org, not DKIM signed at all
<nephele>
the ones from discuss.haiku-os.org have a DKIM signature in the message body
<nephele>
but that also has no DNSSEC+DKIM configured ...
<Begasus>
re
<Begasus>
hi awakenings :)
<nephele>
hmm. though it does say validated in the header, maybe internet.nl isn't telling the complete story. But we still need dnssec configured for proper operation
<nephele>
hi Begasus
<Begasus>
hi nephele :)
<nephele>
Begasus: saw the phoronix beta5 article?
<Begasus>
do'n't think so nephele, anything interesting?
<nephele>
saw someone complaining again about our forums there :g
<nephele>
in the comments
<Begasus>
ah, that I think I saw, one with 3 letters?
<nephele>
well, 4 letters :)
<Begasus>
can imagine who, as he isn't active on the forum anymore :P
<Begasus>
OscarL if you are following, thanks, the mouse is functional again :D
<Begasus>
and take care of yourself!
<Begasus>
heh, still have 7 recipes for okular here :)
<Begasus>
kubuntu is cheating, the releases a beta for the next release :P
<Begasus>
they released*
<nephele>
maybe haiku should just do timestamp releases :P
<nephele>
leave the hrev numbers, i'm running 2024-09-22-16-31
<nephele>
;)
<Begasus>
2024-09-22-06-47:14 :P
<Monni>
gotta have seconds for oopsie releases ;)
<Begasus>
Monni!
<Begasus>
Many greeting my great tutor! :D
<Begasus>
ps, this is the stable release :P
<Monni>
Just installed beta 5 yesterday... still testing what has been improved ;)
<Begasus>
nice to see you still have a thing for it!
<Begasus>
how's the cat(s)?
<Monni>
Still alive... I've been hopping between Windows, Ubuntu, Debian, FreeBSD and Haiku ;)
<Begasus>
Ditched linux's installs in favor of Haiku, only this still has a Windows install
<Begasus>
ps Monni, if you haven't yet, there are already a few updates on the beta
<Monni>
Not masochist enough to try running on dual-core asymmetric 32-bit PowerPC... Currently running Debian 13 on it...
<Begasus>
it's nice to see some working on those machines
<Begasus>
but having the full power works better on some newer ones :)
<Monni>
Gotta love booting OS in less than 10 seconds instead of 15+ seconds on modern machines...
<nephele>
I saw chromeOS adverts two days ago that said "boots in less than 10 seconds"
<Monni>
Try installing 2 GB of memory on old machine and watching how it only uses 256 MB even when using gcc to compile something big...
<Begasus>
I must say that booting Windows is pretty fast on this one, having a working environment is something else :)
<Begasus>
been there ;)
<Monni>
I still have my old BeOS machine with SCSI controller... Haven't checked how much memory it has though...
<Begasus>
booting is one thing nephele, having a working env is another thing
<Begasus>
Still have the big tower next to me from the old days, can't get rid of it, even though it's not hooked up on anything
<Monni>
I have so much stuff on the old BeOS machine that it doesn't all fit inside the case... lol...
<Begasus>
heh
<Monni>
3 full size external SCSI drives...
<Begasus>
have been able to restore the old emails (going back to 2006) and can read them in Beam
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<Begasus>
+12K emails :)
<Monni>
I used to get about 6000 e-mails just during the night... took 6 hours just to skim through...
<Begasus>
lol
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<Monni>
Nowadays I just let e-mail client delete all e-mails that are definitely spam or not useful...
<nephele>
I keep all spam email
<dovsienko>
I used to get a lot of e-mail in the inbox. then I unsubscribed from every irrelevant marketing spam I could and configured e-mail filters, and stopped wasting my life on sorting e-mails
<Begasus>
I just let gmail do it's thing (mostly)
<Monni>
I get about 200 e-mails in hour average.... Keeping all the large spam e-mails would result me running out of disk space quite fast due to how e-mails are stored in 7-bit ASCII instead of 8-bit binary...
<nephele>
I don't get that much spam email
<nephele>
but it is mostly amusing
<dovsienko>
Monni: sounds like you need a spam filter, otherwise you e-mail SNR approaches 0
<Monni>
I have spam filter, but it doesn't filter all my e-mail accounts...
<Monni>
I've used Bayesian filter for decades, but I get so much spam that it can't train itself properly, so real e-mail often gets marked as spam...
<Begasus>
nipos, nice setup there! (reading the forum post) :)
<dovsienko>
then you need a spam filter that works well and actually processes all the inbound e-mail
<nipos>
Begasus: Thanks,still playing around with it.It's my most powerful laptop so far and I love it
<nephele>
I was really suprised with asahi linux... on the ARM macbooks it runs amazing. But linux on x86 macbooks runs terrible. I expected this to be the other way around .-.
<nephele>
makes my ideas to port haiku to x86 macbooks a bit more difficult
<nipos>
My primary Haiku machine used to be a desktop with a 3-core AMD Athlon,but as you may know,pre-Ryzen AMDs tend to randomly crash with Haiku,so that wasn't optimal
<nephele>
i still need a gpu for my "beefy" haiku machine
<nephele>
ideally one that could drive the 4k display too xD
<nipos>
I'll keep it around,have a lot of Haiku machines already,but the new laptop it the best choice for heavy compile tasks
<Monni>
ARM just hits differently... I've worked a lot with ARM and it performs a lot better than x86...
<nephele>
Monni: indeed. But i mean already just straight up hw support. Linux supported on arm some diy modded to usb-c wacom tablet that ARM macos never had a driver for... but the intel variant didn't work with the touchpad, the keyboard or the backlight .-.
<Begasus>
still no go on the external HDMI screen :(
<nipos>
I really hope Intel manages to survive it's current drama.I've also played around with ARM stuff in the past and I don't want to have to use this for anything serious.
<Monni>
With x86 one needs a lot of redundant register moves as it switches between floating-point and integer registers, but ARM use same registers all the time, no separate GPR and vector registers...
<nephele>
gonna keep asahi linux around for my minetest gamemode and develop that further, too bad that the experince of running minetest is still terrible on Haiku :D
<nipos>
I mean,you can't even have a universal ISO that just works with every single machine,it's all a big incompatible chaos.
<nephele>
Heh
<Monni>
Intel has been "dead" since 64-bit processors were released... it's been battle between AMD and ARM...
<Monni>
AMD has had it's own issues and quirks, but old Intel Xeons were the last real processors and those are just ugly to use nowadays...
<nephele>
bbl
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<Monni>
I've patched my own drivers when something wasn't supported... Doesn't stop me when something needs to be "signed" for operating system to load it...
<Begasus>
You have the skills for it Monni :)
<nipos>
ARM also has it's own issues.Try running anything that isn't Linux on a Raspberry Pi.It may work to some extent,but far from perfect.Also a x86 cpu with the same GHz feels a lot faster
<dovsienko>
nipos: I have run OpenBSD, NetBSD and FreeBSD on Pi in 2021-2024
<Monni>
Begasus: A lot of devices are similar enough that you can just change or add the device ID to existing driver... Maybe it doesn't work 100%, but at least it initializes the device and work long enough to get some work done...
<dovsienko>
it was rough sometimes
<Begasus>
still not familiar enough there to hack into that Monni :P
<Monni>
Begasus: I've played around with kernels and kernel drivers since early days...
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<Begasus>
only remember hacking in there with RH5.1 at one point :)
<Monni>
I used to build FreeBSD kernel over and over for 7 days before I got sound working, then it run for few seconds and crashed ;)
<Begasus>
good old days! me trying to get into the Desktop back then
<nipos>
I ran NetBSD on some very old Raspberry Pi (2 or 3 I think) and it worked,except Wifi.And I ran FreeBSD on a Raspberry Pi 400 (the keyboard thingy) and it booted,but I remember it having some serious limitations that made it useless.At least Wifi also didn't work,that one I know for sure.OpenBSD never booted successfully on any Raspi here
<dovsienko>
Haiku on Pi would among other problems reduce the "which PC do I need to use for it?" problem
<Monni>
I don't even try to get to Desktop anymore... too much hassle trying to test if Gnome or KDE works better...
<dovsienko>
OpenBSD 6 began to run on Pi 4B fine, but it was very unwieldy to install/boot (you would need to improvise a bootloader), then 7.x started just to work
<nipos>
With Wifi?
<Monni>
Most of the time I did just run out of disk space, because X11 and the desktop manager took so much disk space with all the libraries...
<dovsienko>
NetBSD 9.x still has no support for Pi 4B, so you would need to have a 3B+ just to run it. then in 10.0 this problem was finally fixed.
<Monni>
I still use 32 GB drives to boot most operating systems I have...
<dovsienko>
FreeBSD 13.0 was AFAIR the first to support Pi 4B, but some unimportant peripherals (WiFi, BT, and at some point USB keyboards) did not work, then by 13.1/13.2 it settled and 14.x just works on Pi 4B
<dovsienko>
RISC-OS boots and works fine on Pi 4B
<Monni>
I have 500 GB external drives, but too lazy to break them to see if the internals can be separated...
<nipos>
If you call Wifi unimportant,well,that may depend on the situation
<Monni>
WiFI is hardly required when you can just use USB modem for networking...
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<dovsienko>
if you really need WiFi, all you need is working USB. a bit inconvenient, but justifies the ability to run 4 cores with 8GB RAM
<Monni>
Few weeks ago I didn't even have keyboard connected when I was using Haiku... Used USB mouse as a keyboard...
<Monni>
That was with beta 3 just after beta 4 was released...
<nipos>
I prefer stuff that works.
<dovsienko>
is it one of those mice with a hundred keys?
<Monni>
just a regular USB mouse with two buttons...
<Monni>
Just open browser with random page and copy & paste individual letters ;)
<Begasus>
lol
<Begasus>
just as with any GTK app on Haiku and special characters :p
<Monni>
too lazy to figure out if Haiku had virtual keyboard somewhere ;)
<dovsienko>
so, anyway, what I am trying to say is that I am familiar with other OSes on Pi hardware, and for some use cases this is a nice hardware when it works and your OS supports it, so it would be nice for Haiku to support Pi
<nipos>
I mean this Broadcom crap is a major showstopper even in lots of x86 hardware and I unfortunately also own a tablet where I'm forced to stick to Windows because of this,but for me it doesn't make much sense to buy a Raspberry or even target it as "perfect Haiku device" knowing that it's proprietary hardware just sucks.
<dovsienko>
(for clarity, I am NOT a competent kernel/driver/bootloader developer, so I would not be able to do it)
<Begasus>
lacking manpower ...
<Monni>
For most unsupported OS it would be easier to just piggy-back Haiku on existing OS that is supported...
<dovsienko>
nipos: as far as I understand, in a typical AMD64 PC it is difficult to find many components that are not proprietary, yet so long as each part conforms to the spec (PCI/USB/I2C/etc), the PC works
<Monni>
With the *BSD compatibility layer it in most cases just needs BSD supported on that specific hardware...
<nipos>
That's not wrong,but there are also many standardized APIs that just work,always,no matter what the specific hardware is.For example there's VESA that always works,no matter what your GPU is and if you have specific drivers for it.Or you can always expect the CPU,RAM and USB disk to just work,so that you can always boot.Most ARM stuff doesn't even boot without device-specific modifications
<Monni>
most of the device-specific modifications are handled even before the operating system loads....
<dovsienko>
the same applies to MIPS and most recently RISC-V, as far as I gather
<Monni>
RISC-V and like have "firmware" that is loaded before the operating system... old PowerPC had similar system...
<dovsienko>
well, so does Pi since model 3
<Monni>
you just need "interface" between the firmware and the operating system... that's where the piggy-back comes to play...
<dovsienko>
and since model 4 it is even upgradable in the flash, but the complexity is that the very first bootloader runs in the GPU, then it loads what is called "firmware" from the boot disk filesystem and combines that with the "firmware" that lives in the EEPROM
<Monni>
x86 has firmware too, but it lives in the processor itself...
<dovsienko>
and only then you are getting to loading and starting the next bootloader such as U-boot or EDK
<dovsienko>
and then DeviceTree files kick in, and only after that the OS kernel (or the next bootloader, as in OpenBSD) loads. there's a shortcut for Linux kernel
<Monni>
there is quite a lot of steps, but the critical part is for the bootloader to manage to load Haiku kernel.... after that it's batshit in the clock tower...
<dovsienko>
so with Pi 4 you have too many "firmwares" and a large space for things to go wrong even before the OS kernel begins to execute
<dovsienko>
I initially thought booting an OS on Pi is something reasonably simple, but when I followed the progress of adding Pi 4 support to the three BSDs for a while, I realized how complicated and time-consuming it can be
<Monni>
With PowerPC I did just load the kernel from network using TFTP...So much easier than trying to load from disk...
<dovsienko>
so I am NOT nearly competent enough for a Pi board bring-up in Haiku, although it would be very nice to be
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<dovsienko>
if your bootloader supports that (and in Pi you can TFTP-boot from the burned-in bootloader), perhaps. but then the OS should either run from RAM, or from NFS, or the filesystem has to be on a disk anyway, even if the device does not boot from it
<nosycat>
Modern computing: you can buy an iPhone... or else you have to be a pioneer like in the 60s and know how to bootstrap your OS by flipping switches on the front panel.
<dovsienko>
yeah
<Monni>
After TFTP, it just needs IDE or SCSI driver and those are pretty standardized...
<Monni>
There is no SATA or USB mass storage at that point to worry about...
<Monni>
It's basically linear read until the actual operating system gets loaded by the kernel...
<dovsienko>
Monni: given your knowledge of the boot process, which Haiku problem you feel like help solving?
<Monni>
IDK, last time I was working on Bluetooth...
<dovsienko>
USB webcam support, maybe?
<dovsienko>
I have one and could test your work
<Begasus>
no need for that here :)
<Begasus>
reminds me that I haven't build Haiku in a while ...
<Begasus>
whoot, last attempt hrev58014
<Monni>
I will build when the kqueue stuff is finished and there is no prebuilt binaries ;)
<Begasus>
thought that was fixed?
<Monni>
Not yet... most of the code is there, but one last part is missing...
<nipos>
Now trying to compile Librewolf on my new laptop :D Hope it won't overheat
<Monni>
I haven't used my laptop in months... the display doesn't work anymore and I'm too lazy to connect it to external monitor or TV using VGA output...
<Monni>
I'm still using Haiku with hardware virtualization, no need for qemu...
<Begasus>
no idea there Monni, glad enough I have the scripts here working to launch freshly build (or test build) images :)
<Monni>
qemu has been wonky since around 6.0... very slow and sometimes crashes when running something...
<Monni>
I could easily post screenshot of how far I can get Haiku to run FreeBSD stuff...
<Begasus>
the 32bit one I use here are mostly one to checkout some PR from haikuports (when I don't feel like booting up one of the 32bit laptops)
<cocobean>
hrev58159 x86_gcc2... runs most BeOS apps for me...... just a handful have issues nowadays.
<Begasus>
one done ... BuildAnybootImageEfi1 haiku-nightly-anyboot.iso :D
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<Begasus>
haven't run any "real" BeOS apps for a long time here
<Begasus>
not related to _DEFAULT_SOURCE ? (look familiar)
<Monni>
I have _DEFAULT_SOURCE defined...
<Begasus>
nginx does ring a bell though
<Monni>
nginx use EVFILT_USER too...
<Monni>
I got really funny error messages without _DEFAULT_SOURCE defined ;)
<Begasus>
not mentioned in the patchset
<Begasus>
;)
<Monni>
nginx has a lot of fallbacks when EVFILT_USER isn't supported... but kqueue is the fastest method...
<Monni>
I did a lot of speed comparisons between Apache and nginx at work using Linux and nginx was really slow...
<Monni>
Obviously Linux doesn't have kqueue, but Apache doesn't even require it...
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<Begasus>
this would improve our port for it also then?
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<Monni>
I would assume it would improve performance, but not sure how much... there is very little overhead when using kqueue...
<qwebirc50459>
hi, when i try to compile minetest i got "fatal error: iconv.h not found" ... in linux its part of libc6-devel ... witch package i need to install in haiku ?
<augiedoggie_>
libiconv_devel
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<qwebirc50459>
thx augiedoggie_ ... i swear i search for "iconf" in HaikuDepot ... but i guess i overlooked it xD
<qwebirc50459>
*searched
<augiedoggie_>
the _devel entries don't show up in HaikuDepot unless you have the menu item checked
<Monni>
iconf is not same as iconv ;)
<qwebirc50459>
sorry, yes i mean iconv
<qwebirc50459>
Another question: BFS has a journal... which is good, but if my system shuts down improperly (because the battery is empty), then a lot of changes (sometimes from several hours) are reset... can you get Haiku to synchronize the file system more often?... like every 5 minutes or so?
<augiedoggie_>
the only think i can think would be to run the 'sync' command in the background every few minutes
<qwebirc50459>
so a scripts it is ?
<augiedoggie_>
probably, but i'm not sure if that would totally fix your data loss
<Monni>
only real solution is to plug the laptop to charger when it has less than 50% remaining... A lot of modern batteries drain faster when the battery is less than 50% full...
<Monni>
15-20% remaining is pretty much critical already... Then it starts to drain really fast...
<qwebirc50459>
i know i know ... but sometimes i leave the room and forget that my laptops run on batterie ... its not often ... but when it happens it sucks ^^
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<qwebirc50459>
mybe i will write a script thats shutdown the laptop if the battery hits 20% or less ... is ther a "systemctl shutdown" like command in haiku, that i can call via a script ?
<HaikuUser>
Hello all, I'm booting on hw with UEFI and I have the "boot not found" thingy every boot, I read it's normal
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<HaikuUser>
Issue is, first times it did that the search was pretty fast, now it's taking ages looking for boot states
<HaikuUser>
any way to prevent that from happening?
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<nephele>
qwebirc50459: shutdown? like every unix?
<nephele>
qwebirc50459: you could also modify the Battery preflet to include this functionlity if you want
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<qwebirc50459>
sadly this is WAY out of my skilltree right now xD
<qwebirc50459>
im happy if a can make some scripts that accelly works
<nephele>
Honestly, with the way shell script works, sometimes i think C++ is easier ;)
<nosycat>
:D
<qwebirc50459>
Unfortunately, I'm still relatively new to haiku... I've tried it several times, but only now with beta 5 am I trying it properly... so I only know what I can apply from my Linux knowledge xD
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<qwebirc50459>
thats why i hope that "sync" really syncs the filesystem ... like in Linux xDD
<Peppersawce>
I was the HaikuUser asking about UEFI boot before btw, forgot to setup the username xD
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<Monni>
Everyone wants to be Pikachu in kindergarten, Binky in BeShare and HaikuUser in Vision ;)
<Peppersawce>
lol
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<nephele>
qwebirc50459: if you want i can dig out the commit where someone added the 15% battery sound thingy (and remaining time)
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<nephele>
>Hello all, I'm booting on hw with UEFI and I have the "boot not found" thingy every boot, I read it's normal
<nephele>
Normally it should just boot
<nephele>
I guess you found a ticket of someone else also encountering that issue?
<Peppersawce>
Something like that, yes
<Peppersawce>
I'm scared the time it takes to search for stuff is increasing exponentially so I won't be able to boot Haiku anymore soon xD
<nephele>
well, a workaround would be moving the old state_* folders somewhere else. But that should normally not be neccesary
<nephele>
I'm wondering why it would not select the latest state automatically in your case
<Peppersawce>
Are they necessary? I was wondering if deleting those folders was safe
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<Peppersawce>
Cause if I can I'll just delete the folders periodically and live with it that way
<nephele>
Not neccesary as such, it's the older states. Without them you won't be able to boot into older versions, and if trying to re-install software it can't just use the old download
<nephele>
Ideally as a user you should not need to do this, anyhow.
<nephele>
Beeing able to boot older states is a nice safety feature
<nephele>
for me, on efi, it will just boot the latest state without the menu popping up at all. So this is a bug in your case. If you have updated after installing the OS (say from b4 to b5) did you also update the bootloader *manually*?
<nephele>
I recall there was some fixes related to enumeration of old states taking long, but i thought that was fixed. But maybe if you have an older bootloader that may still be there in your case
<waddlesplash>
Monni: please add those other missing defines to your ticket. they won't come along automatically when EVFILT_USER is implemented
<Peppersawce>
Ah makes sense
<waddlesplash>
what even is the point of EV_DISABLE I wonder?
<nephele>
Peppersawce: you can also do a shasum to check if it's the same version
<nephele>
like sha256sum /system/data/platform_loaders/haiku_loader.efi
<Peppersawce>
Nice :D
<nephele>
and sha256 /yourEfi/loader.efi
<nephele>
if those two outputs are the same it is the same file and that isn't the problem, if they differ you have an older version of the bootloader installed
<Monni>
waddlesplash: You can create the event disabled and then enable it later...
<Peppersawce>
Oh gawd, my efiboot partition is called "NO NAME"
<Peppersawce>
and yes, it's an older version of the bootloader, ima update it right away :)
<nephele>
that's not bad, it's just the name of the partition :)
<waddlesplash>
Monni: right, but what's the point of that?
<waddlesplash>
why not just EV_ADD when you actually want it
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<qwebirc50459>
well ... adding libiconv_devel worked ... but now, while it is linking, it sayes "undefined ref to 'libiconv_close' and 'libiconv'" ... well lets see where i need to add a "-liconv"
<OscarL>
"-ltranslation", no? /me double checks
<OscarL>
qwebirc50459: "-ltextencoding" should do it (it contains the libiconv_close symbol)
<Monni>
waddlesplash: I see it use EV_DISABLE when creating new fiber and EV_ENABLE when creating new full thread... Fiber starts suspended and gets resumed when other fibers yield...
<OscarL>
qwebirc50459: you might find this bash function handy: https://bpa.st/7GHIM (call it as "lgrep libiconv_close", for example)
<Monni>
As far as I know, it uses one thread per CPU core and new fiber for each operation...
<Begasus>
Hi OscarL!
<Begasus>
how's it going there? feeling better?
<OscarL>
Good Sunday to you Begasus :-)
<Begasus>
thanks :)
<Monni>
Gotta love lgrep... it started as a macro and I converted it to full shell script ;)
<OscarL>
A bit better today, yes, thanks for asking, and for your thoughts earlier :-)
<Begasus>
np :)
<OscarL>
Monni: I stole it from mmu_man's .profile almost 2 decades ago :-P
<nephele>
maybe the compiler should do that
<Monni>
OscarL: I know...
<Monni>
OscarL: We all have stolen some useful code from mmu_man... He's a legend like few others, including shatty...
<OscarL>
yep!
<Monni>
OscarL: It was maybe 22 years ago when I started playing with BeOS and all the "forks"...
<Begasus>
Monni, OscarL did go around then with another nick :)
<Monni>
Definitely more than 20 years ago, as Unizone itself is over 20 years old already...
<Monni>
Begasus: I know...
<nephele>
ominious elipsis :)
<Begasus>
the day R5 PE was released to the major public, that's where it all started :)
<OscarL>
Begasus, or anyone else... do you know/remember why CMake is build against some system libs, but uses its own copy for others (like libz2, libzma, libzstd, expat, libarchive) ?
<Monni>
BeOS stood out even though it wasn't quite finished product...
<Begasus>
included source in cmake OscarL?
<OscarL>
I build it yesterday using just system-libs instead, package size decreased by 10%.
<OscarL>
Begasus: yeah.
<jmairboeck>
OscarL: maybe a bootstrapping problem? do any of these use cmake as their build system?
<Begasus>
ah, no, didn't know that, I mostly kept going from previous recipe :)
<Begasus>
hi jmairboeck :)
<OscarL>
jmairboeck: hi! Ah... will have to check that.
<Begasus>
OscarL, are those required after a finished build?
<Monni>
Most of times, projects use bundled copy if the official version has known issues or bugs that are specific to limited number of configurations...
<Monni>
You don't need cmake to build most libraries as they still allow using configure...
<Begasus>
right, but those don't always include Haiku specific patches :)
<Begasus>
Monni, hard without configure(.ac/in) script
<Monni>
Not really...
<Monni>
I did build zlib using just qmake for example...
<OscarL>
Begasus: I just addeded them to build and runtime requieres, so hp didn't complained. This is the output of .configure --help: https://bpa.st/DIXNE
<Begasus>
well, if there is a .pro file provided that would work also Monni :P
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<Begasus>
OscarL, does hp complain if you don't add them in REQUIRES?
<Monni>
Begasus: .pro file is really easy to write if you're already using qmake... The point is that you need to only have the list of defines that are required to build the source files...
<OscarL>
Will find out soon enough, as I'm about to run a build on 64 bits...
<jmairboeck>
I think, if reasonably possible, it should use system libraries
<jmairboeck>
but don't introduce circular dependencies
<PulkoMandy>
I would guess that the initial port removed all bundled things, but since then, cmake was updated and has even more bundled dependencies and the recipe was not kept up to date?
<Begasus>
most of them disabled for system by default
<jmairboeck>
If a library is only used by cmake and nothing else, you can probably keep the bundled version
<OscarL>
welp, now I'm using "--system-libs", so that it (should) disable usage of all embedded stuff.
<Begasus>
there are still a few declared in the recipe for system libs
<Monni>
Usually it's best to build the bundled dependencies as static library, so everything unused gets optimized away, but if more than one binary use a lot of the dependency, then it might increase the total size too much...
<OscarL>
just wanted to ask before committing to the build/test cycle, as it takes quite a while on my slow PC.
<Begasus>
bugger, just launched build like that for current version :)
<OscarL>
Begasus: that's good!
<OscarL>
because you can then run --test, and we can compare results :-)
<Begasus>
I'll probably need that patch for zstd :)
<Begasus>
well, I'll probably have to run a few times, nothing added in BUILD_REQUIRES yet :)
<OscarL>
32 bits results were pretty bad compared to the reference results on the recipe... but not sure if that's due to 32 bits, the version update, or the change to sys libs :-P
<Begasus>
not going to test that in the 32bit qemu install :P
<OscarL>
no problem. Just testing current 64 bits version on sys vs non-sys libs would be useful.
<Begasus>
for the non-sys we already got the results
<OscarL>
darn tests took almost an hour on my CPU, and it is getting too hot for repeated runs :-)
<Begasus>
eeps!
* OscarL
needs better hardware :-)
<Monni>
OscarL: That's a constant struggle...
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<OscarL>
(a better brain would be welcome too)
<Begasus>
can't have it all :P
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<Monni>
A lot of us are getting so old, that our brains don't work 100% anymore...
<Begasus>
k, here we go ... -- Could NOT find EXPAT (missing: EXPAT_LIBRARY EXPAT_INCLUDE_DIR)
<OscarL>
Monni: in my case... constant as in... I'm still using a CPU from 2009? :-P
<tqh>
mine never worked 1005 :)
<tqh>
mine never worked 100% :)
<Monni>
OscarL: I have a lot older CPU than that...
<Begasus>
tqh, the brain? (I guess we all fal into that) :)
<OscarL>
Monni: as your most powerfull one? (cos I still have some Athlon K7 900 too)
<Begasus>
OscarL, for this it seems it only missed libexpat and libarchive
<Monni>
OscarL: Well... When was dual-core 32-bit PowerPC released... I recall it being older than 2009...
<tqh>
Begasus, yep
<Begasus>
;)
<OscarL>
Begasus: can you paste the output of "./configure --help" for current version?
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<Peppersawce>
So the system went into KDL after I deleted the old bootloader as I was copying the old one
<Peppersawce>
Had to make a Beta 5 stick and copy the bootloader from there
<OscarL>
Begasus: btw, found out that both Python 3.9 and 3.10 still include a "libpython3x.a" file. Should remove them on the next recipe update.
<Peppersawce>
"Boot path not found" issue still persists
<nephele>
ouch
<Peppersawce>
So it's fine if I delete old states?
<nephele>
just move them, then you can change your mind later ;)
<Peppersawce>
Good idea
<OscarL>
new FAT driver has problems with replacing renaming files with the same name.
<Begasus>
Warning: POLICY WARNING: "/packaging/cmake/bin/ccmake" needs library "libarchive.so.13", but the package doesn't seem to declare that as a requirement
<Begasus>
Warning: POLICY WARNING: "/packaging/cmake/bin/ccmake" needs library "libexpat.so.1", but the package doesn't seem to declare that as a requirement
<phschafft>
OscarL: ?
<Begasus>
no requirements on the others libraries here OscarL
<OscarL>
Had it KDL on me while trying to rename a file a week ago, IIRC.
<Begasus>
+1 on the .a file OscarL
<OscarL>
phschafft: like renaming filename.txt to FileName.txt, that not working, moving filename.txt to filename2.txt, and then to FileName.txt... KDL.
<Begasus>
errr .. I have no libpython*.a on my system OscarL?
<phschafft>
OscarL: I see.
<OscarL>
Begasus: saw it on 32 bits. runnign a query now on 64 bits (but also running the cmake build, so... sloooow)
<Begasus>
ah in /boot/system/lib/python3.9/config-3.9 I guess those are harmless OscarL?
<Peppersawce>
I'd rather have a script or something that at a certain point keeps the last few states and maybe a state a day for the last couple of weeks or something
<Begasus>
there is Peppersawce
<Begasus>
just can't remember it's name :)
<Peppersawce>
O_O
<Monni>
I keep giving 16 GB to Haiku just to make sure I don't run out of memory...
<Begasus>
filiwip or something
<Peppersawce>
That is a folder
<nephele>
11G for my state dirs
<Begasus>
Peppersawce, that's the administrative folder :)
<OscarL>
Begasus: FilWip?
<Begasus>
I guess OscarL
<Begasus>
it can clean up states iirc
<Peppersawce>
DuneLegacy is playable now btw
<OscarL>
not exactly what Peppersawce was asking for but...
<nephele>
Peppersawce: the thing is the "meat" of the states: the text files have almost no content
<Monni>
140.9 GB free space in Haiku... I guess that lasts for a while...
<Begasus>
closest thing I can think of OscarL :)
<OscarL>
Begasus: right :-)
<nephele>
but the packages have the actual filesize, so we can collapse some states, but that would not save any storage
<Begasus>
nephele, depends on what you have installed :)
<nephele>
and we need those packages to activate older states sometimes
<Begasus>
2200 lines in activated packages file atm :)
<Peppersawce>
I'm sure you guys will sort it out eventually
<Peppersawce>
I mean, in a way that doesn't bloat the fs too much
<Begasus>
it's one of it's powers I guess also, you can go back when booting into those previous states
<Peppersawce>
For now it's fine as long as it boots and I can remove the bloat without too much hassle
<Begasus>
right
<nephele>
should have a deduplicating filesystem for that section :P
<Peppersawce>
someday maybe :)
<OscarL>
Peppersawce: granted, I do clean my all state_* folders, but you having 8+ GBs there in such a short time... did you installed/uninstalled half of HaikuDepot? :-P
<Begasus>
fix it nephele? :P
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<Peppersawce>
I rebuilt a lot of packages/recipes
<Peppersawce>
So I made a lot of different versions of packages
<Peppersawce>
Half those gigs were probably just wesnoth lmao
<Begasus>
8GB doesn't even cover the basics I think OscarL :P
<OscarL>
Peppersawce: yeah, that's why I keep cleaning them here (to clean up the things I build/test locally)
<Begasus>
I just mostly keep the ones from last month when cleaning those up
<Begasus>
just those writeable-files are annoying sometimes
<OscarL>
Begasus: you know me... I try to stay away from bigger packages :-)
<Begasus>
yeah, had a few in my mind but didn't want to poke around :D
<Begasus>
well, you could try re-enabling gui for cmake :)
<OscarL>
yeah... will have to pass on that for now (have zero Qt devel stuff here).
<Begasus>
maybe it works for Qt6, would be less dependencies
<OscarL>
Begasus: build finished... hp complanined about all the lib*.so :-)
<OscarL>
welp... not all it seem, mmm.
<Begasus>
with all those new ones you have in that recipe?
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<Begasus>
359/614 Test #355: RunCMake.CMP0065 ..................................***Failed 135.62 sec
<Begasus>
still running
<OscarL>
Begasus: I just commented *all* the lib: requires: https://bpa.st/5SBX2
* Begasus
slaps OscarL
<OscarL>
complains about libexpat/libarchive, but not about libz2/libz/libzstd/libzlma it seems?
<Begasus>
you commented out the ones already in also?
<OscarL>
yeah, wanted to make sure they where really needed :-D
<Begasus>
lol
<OscarL>
you know we usually find we have spurious dependencies :-)
<OscarL>
Wonder if there are some other parts that HP is not checking, that make use of the other libs? Mmm.
<Monni>
Some dependencies are required for only some operating systems, and sometimes one dependency is replaced with another...
<Begasus>
k, libform I didn't see in this version
<OscarL>
Begasus: notice for example, how it now didn't complained about missing lib:libz :-P
<OscarL>
that's from ncurses package
<Begasus>
OscarL, don't see lib:libstdc++ mentioned there too
<OscarL>
thus why it doesn't complains on install (pulled in by lib:libncurses)
<OscarL>
korli added it... not touching that one :-P
<Begasus>
one thing I do lately is run "readelf -d" on the resulting binary
<nephele>
Hmm, I want to move my minetest gamemode to another software forge, but where :3
<Begasus>
codeberg?
<OscarL>
codeberg feels nice.
<nosycat>
+1
<OscarL>
also, not difficult to self-host.
<Begasus>
yeah, had no isseus checking that out compared to github
<OscarL>
far, far more responsive than gitlab too :-P
<nephele>
well, i like self hosting. but since this project relates to minetest it would be neat to have somewhere other people could contribute "directly"
<Begasus>
if you set remote upstream to github you could also make PR I guess :)
<nephele>
even though i would not say no to email contributions or gerrit :)
<nosycat>
I've seen Minetest-related projects on Codeberg.
<nephele>
looks like gitea? hmm
<nephele>
I'm not a fan of the PR way but maybe that is alright
<Monni>
GitHub has weird issues sometimes... Sometimes I noticed disappearing commits... Had to push again...
<OscarL>
"forgejo" (fork of gitea)
<Peppersawce>
foss has all the forks
<nephele>
alright, i'm "convinced" I'll try out codeberg and put my project there
<Begasus>
got a few repos setup there also
<nephele>
heh. forks. I'm massively annoyed at the github way creating huuuge numbers of """forks""" that are just the same project in a slightly older version
<Peppersawce>
it do be weird
<Begasus>
mine isn't! :P
<Monni>
GitHub also have some users that just clone repos and rename things to non-sense... Makes legit project look really bad...
<Begasus>
Monni, that doesn't happen elsewhere?
<Monni>
Begasus: I've only used SourceForge and GitHub so far... No need to test the others...
<nephele>
"the passwords do not match"
<Begasus>
:)
<nephele>
well, luckily there is... no way... to show the password
<nephele>
ffs
<nephele>
better pick an easier password!
<Monni>
"username" as password, and "password" as username ;)
<nephele>
No wonder people pick shitty passwords if the UI punishes you for using a long unique password
<nephele>
my username is already taken
<nephele>
uff
<Begasus>
think I should get a pattent on my nick :P
<nipos>
I must say,I really like building LibreWolf on Haiku 😑 First tried building latest LibreWolf 130 with the patches from Kenz,that got stuck forever with no error and no CPU activity,then I retried with LibreWolf 128,the same version he's also working on,had to downgrade cbindgen to 0.26 (from 0.27) for it and now it's stuck at exactly the same point as LibreWolf 130 before :/
<Begasus>
but then again, already got SF/GH/GL/CB :)
<Monni>
At work, we use ! as password... Makes it pretty much impossible to login...
<Begasus>
gotta love them nipos!
<Begasus>
rust?
<OscarL>
I'm still not sure if the "bipolar" on github wasn't just /me, and I forgot that I've created that account :-P
<Begasus>
lol
<nipos>
Maybe I wasted my free day with that,but well,it was worth a try.Hoped for better results,since original Firefox at least builds for Kenz (didn't try myself)
<Begasus>
nipos, if it's rust it can go on for hours to finish the last bit
<nipos>
Begasus: Yes,LibreWolf uses large parts of Rust nowadays,but also C++ and other stuff
<nephele>
Well, I'm not sure what to do with the account name taken
<nephele>
the account does not seem used
<nephele>
maybe sourcehut?
<Begasus>
even for small ports like cargo-c rav1e it's anoying
<nipos>
True.Compiling cbindgen also takes ages
<Begasus>
right, and those source_uri's aren't helping also there
<nipos>
I'd surely prefer a Rust-free version,but that (Pale Moon/Basilisk) still requires Python 2 for the build system.Not sure if that's any better
<nephele>
sourcehut wants one to pay for an account to host the repo there... fair. But they only accept credit cards
<Monni>
I once waited Intel Compiler to finish compiling one file, it finally finished after over 9 hours... Takes just few minutes with other compilers...
<Begasus>
still have a python2 package around somewhere, shouldn't be too hard to build that nipos
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] da8c631e312b - arm64: Add some sanity assertions.
<nipos>
Have it on my other computer as well,but the Pale Moon build system wasn't happy with it.Couldn't locate some packages in the Virtualenv that were definitely there
<Begasus>
bugger
<Begasus>
OscarL, those tests arend doing any faster on this one :)
<Begasus>
aren't*
<OscarL>
Begasus: "first half" are pretty slow, then something like the 200+ last one are done in a minute or so.
<nipos>
Firefox-based browsers are really difficult to build,unfortunately.Maybe it would be easier to build an Adblocker into WebPositive,so that I don't need it anymore,but for that I'd need to know C++ lol
<Begasus>
not here it seems OscarL: 493/614 Test #508: RunCMake.TargetPolicies ........................... Passed 22.78 sec
<OscarL>
:-(
<Begasus>
angelfish is using that in it's build (rust addblocker)
<nephele>
nipos: you already know C++
<nephele>
And yes, it would be substantially easier to contribute than building firefox :P
<nipos>
I know a little bit of C++ that allows me to contribute one-line fixes to the dark theme,but not substantial new features where I'd need to know what I'm doing
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<nephele>
Adding the adblocking api for webpositive is basically: enabeling it in the build, see if it works
<nephele>
if it does see if the env var then works for using it
<Begasus>
augiedoggie_ will see to re-add the gui for cmake, removed it then a there were issues with it reported by other (for building Haiku)
<nipos>
I thought Adblocking API requires WebKit2,which we aren't using yet?
<Begasus>
now beta5 is out it shouldn't be an issue again
<nipos>
Btw,fixing Proxy settings would be cool as well,maybe that's easy enough for me
<jmairboeck>
the problem with cmake_gui was that it added a circular dependency because some dependency of Qt uses cmake to build
<nephele>
Maybe it does. maybe it doesn't. Regardless, we have webkit2 mostly working now, no?
<nipos>
Since the switch to the curl backend,I can use Tor using env variables as I told you already,but the Proxy settings in the GUI are completely ignored
<Begasus>
right jmairboeck
<Begasus>
still have a seperate recipe for cmake_gui, but having it all in one would be better
<Begasus>
not for today :)
<nipos>
In the forum people repeatedly said that Adblocking requires WebKit2 and now you say it probably doesn't?I'm confused.
<nephele>
wtf, why is every matrix thing broken
<nipos>
WebKit2 itself is mostly working,I guess,but someone would need to integrate it into WebPositive which,I guess,will be a lot of work.
<nephele>
nipos: Well, it goes like this. that api has only been *tested* in any form with webkit2. It's maybe possible to also make it work with webkitlegacy
<nipos>
What's broken with Matrix?
<Begasus>
matrix works for me (Nheko + NeoChat)
<nipos>
Why did nobody tell me that years ago?I would have tried,instead of trying to port LibreWolf and other stuff that barely works
<nephele>
But that depends on how the api works internally. I did not test this, i don't think pulkomandy has either. Since wk2 is seen more as the ground work we need to finish first
<Begasus>
on NeoChat image display is broken, but that's known upstream
<nephele>
nipos: huh? I asked if you wanted to work on webpositive, you said you don't know C++. what changed now?
<nephele>
also for matrix all my builds of quaternion are now broken
<nephele>
how badly can you break backwards compat
<nephele>
hey, that nheko hvif looks like the one i made :D
<Begasus>
no idea there, that was your baby so I stayed away from it :)
<nephele>
Begasus: I'm talking about my local builds anyhow
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<Begasus>
ah :)
<nipos>
I quit Matrix when I shut down my own server due to it becoming slower and slower and basically unusable lol XMPP works great here.But it's cool to have choices and not be forced to a specific service :)
<nephele>
> runtime_loader: /boot/system/apps/Nheko: Could not resolve symbol '_ZN7QtAudio13convertVolumeEfNS_11VolumeScaleES0_'
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<PulkoMandy>
Integrating webkit2 in a browser probably isn't so hard (if it works in minibrowser already...). But a lot of things to rewire (downloads, history, cookie management, ...) before adding the new stuff like ad blocking
<nipos>
nephele: I said that I don't know C++ because I don't.I can not introduce new features,that's it.But if one only needs to enable some config switch for a feature that's already there,that is something I can most likely do.And fixing little bugs in stuff that is mostly complete is also something I can do in like 70% of the cases
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: Honestly, maybe we should start with a new chrome rather than rewrite webpositive. Seeing as that would almost be a complete rewrite?
<Begasus>
nephele, local build? or the one from the depot?
<PulkoMandy>
And also I am trying to upstream our changes to webkit now, since we have a basic webkit2 thing working, that will surely help fix some problems as I review what I submit to webkit and then they review it again
<nephele>
Begasus: repo
<PulkoMandy>
nephele: It's just a slightly different api. Al the ui will be unchanged
<Begasus>
weird, that's working fine here, launched it a few times because of the missing images in neochat
<PulkoMandy>
Also I neâer throw away existing code no matter how desperately broken it is. I don't believe in rewrites
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: Your comment with rewriting history was directed at webkit then?
<PulkoMandy>
I wrote "rewire", not "rewrite"
<nephele>
Okay, that makes more sense. I misread that
<PulkoMandy>
It's easy to misread, they look similar :)
<nephele>
I'm warry of such big transitions and not having a nice before/after thing to directly compare. but maybe we can have webpositive building with both during the transition
<nephele>
(as in build flag)
<PulkoMandy>
Maybe, or just do it in a branch until it's ready
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: which branch for webkit is now targeted for dev? still the master branch or are we now using webkit2?
<PulkoMandy>
Use the haiku branch. haiku-webkit2 will be rebased on top of it and commits amended as I get them into submittable form for upstream
<PulkoMandy>
I try to move things that are ready to merge into the haiku branch
<nipos>
I wonder if my Librewolf is doing anything currently.I mean that doesn't look like there is a compiler process,does it?
<nephele>
the lowest two processes are probably doing something in the build nipos. But hard to tell if they are stuck or not. You might be able to check with the debugger
<dovsienko>
<no-reply@sso.haiku-os.org>... Deferred: Connection timed out with sso.haiku-os.org.
<dovsienko>
<review@review.haiku-os.org>... Deferred: Connection timed out with review.haiku-os.org.
<Begasus>
tricky nipos :)
<dovsienko>
(Warning: could not send message for past 4 hours)
<nephele>
Begasus: neochat works, as in i can chat there somewhat
<nephele>
but darn, that theme doesn't integrate at all :( the ui seems half broken
<Begasus>
ah right, neochat in the depot is still at 23.08.5
<dovsienko>
so, it turns out sso and review are not subject to the MX, even though they are both CNAMEs
<Begasus>
running 24.08.1 for neochat here
<nephele>
have buttons called "s...r" "C...s"; transparent dialog boxes. complete white theme
<nipos>
I think I'll let it do what it does until I go to bed,then I'll look if anything changes and if not,I'll abort
<Begasus>
+1
<Begasus>
waiting for the cmake tests suite to complete
<Begasus>
almost there
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: is the "new" api for the webkit2 version finished?
<Begasus>
OscarL: 70% tests passed, 185 tests failed out of 614
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<nephele>
or is that just whatever minibrowser uses now?
<PulkoMandy>
I have no idea. It will probably be a case by case "oh there's no way to do this, let's add it to the api"
<PulkoMandy>
And looking at the mac, gtk and wpe ones to try to be generally similar if possible (but in haiku flavour)
<nephele>
My question is more like, is this an ad-hoc internal api. Or is the Haiku facing api for userspace apps already done/started
<nephele>
I would like to add webkit2 to the e-mail application as a first step to familiraize myself with it
<nephele>
since the api boundary between webkit and webpositive is something i've not had to deal with untill now :)
<PulkoMandy>
The idea is that it will be the public api, but I don't think it is really "designed" now (and also it is undocumented)
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<PulkoMandy>
The legacy one wasquite complicated (you need your app to be a subclass of BWebApp, your window to subclass BWebWindow, etc)
<PulkoMandy>
Ideally I would like a BWebView that you can add to any window in any app and it just does its thing. I have no ioea how much that's possibne and how mucheis already realized
<PulkoMandy>
zardshard probably knows more :)
<nephele>
let's ambush him
<nephele>
s/ambush/ask/g
<nephele>
;)
<nipos>
nephele: Isn't WebKit a bit too big for only displaying a email?I mean,the Netsurf engine would probably be a better fit there
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* zard
hops on :-)
<Begasus>
he heard you :P
<nephele>
nipos: dunno. I don't think "too big" is a consideration if you already have it installed
<nephele>
Also stuff like dark mode works in webkit /in emails/ but does not in netsurf as there is no support
<nephele>
telling webkit to render it with "dont use js, dont use cookies, dont use network" etc should be fine imo
<nipos>
It needs to be loaded,making the Email app basically as slow and memory-eating as a browser.I generally prefer keeping things lightweight.
<OscarL>
Begasus: alright... that's with --system-libs, no? 2 more failed tests than previously registered doesn't sounds too bad (and might be due to beta4/beta5 diffs).
<nipos>
Adding support for dark mode to Netsurf should be doable,I think
<nephele>
webkitlegacy is 83mb image, that's not small but it's also not huge
<OscarL>
Begasus: not sure why it ran 614 instead of 664 tests thou (unless that was typo originally... I got 626 test on newest version).
<Molnija>
ve
<nephele>
and memory usage won't increase by loading RO pages
<nephele>
they can just be evicted from RAM when memory pressure is high
<zard>
So, WebKit2's API is minimal and ad-hoc at present
<Begasus>
no idea too OscarL
<Begasus>
not running them again to see :)
<zard>
My thought was to eventually make it pulbic-facing
<nephele>
eventually? those html emails are here now! :P
<nephele>
zard: got some pointers for me where this api is declared and such?
<zard>
Sure! /me goes to get some links
<nephele>
if there was a concept of a streaming translator one could use that and make it go html->BView and then just decide if netsurf or webkit should be used, hmmm
<zard>
WebViewBase is the actual BView that needs to be added to the app (yeah, confusing naming)
<OscarL>
Begasus: did you recorded the runtime of --test?
<zard>
I believe WebView needs to be created for any app that uses WebViewBase
<nephele>
hmm, WebView is the "upper" object used to configure this?
<zard>
Yes, kinda like BWebWindow, I think
<Begasus>
OscarL no, but well over an hour, if not close to 2 hours
<OscarL>
Begasus: my "hp" alias starts with "time haikuporter ..." :-P
<OscarL>
ouch
<nephele>
I'm missing severall apis to tell it not to allow remote ressources, javascript etc. and load local data (from memory or a file) :D
<Begasus>
tss :P
<Begasus>
../gtk/gtkmain.c:51:10: fatal error: hb-glib.h: No such file or directory
<zard>
Aye, time to get digging :D
<Begasus>
k, another one to put into my todo list :P
<nephele>
Is the haiku branch wk2 useable?
<nephele>
or only on haiku-webkit2?
<zard>
I've never tried the haiku branch. I doubt it's usable
<Begasus>
PulkoMandy, I see harfbuzz released 9.0.0, maybe a build for like harfbuzz9 with glib support could help out, and keep the default one like we have
<Begasus>
there wouldn't be a library conflict then
<Begasus>
anyway, thoughts for tomorrow
<nephele>
zard: let's see if i can build webkit on my slow machine
<Begasus>
closing down here
<Begasus>
cu peeps!
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<nephele>
still don't have a gpu for my beefy one :'(
<nephele>
> Fehler: RPC fehlgeschlagen; curl 92 HTTP/2 stream 5 was not closed cleanly: CANCEL (err 8)
<nephele>
ugh
<nephele>
git pull too difficult huh .-.
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<nephele>
zard: maybe move those apis to BPrivate?
<zard>
Never thought about it
<zard>
Those APIs really need to be refactored, though, imo
<nephele>
Sure. Want to work on that with me?
* zard
shakes his head at WebViewBase
<nephele>
I'd be a fan if the thing implementing BView would be the one called a View ;)
<zard>
I can tell you what I know of off of the top of my head, but I don't want to get digging too deep into it right now
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<nephele>
Ideally I'd want a convenience api next to the normal one for usecases like Mail. Where you have to pass it the document to render, and it explicitly (because you used this api) will never have network requests, js, cookies and such
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 617be7bcdc7b - arm64: Use the correct version of TTBR0 when booting in EL2.
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] add4a0b6835b - arm64: Configure maximum PA size to the maximum supported by the HW.
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<nephele>
Habbie: I don't think a well behaved e-mail client should load remote images
<nephele>
and the api would (if that were supported) likely be something like: webkit encounters the image, sends the image uri back to Mail, and then mail can decide to download it or not
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: it seems webpositive no longer hands mailto: off to mail :(
<Habbie>
nephele, oh yes, most clients i've used have a button or toggle for it, per message
<nephele>
though, images in html emails, can also be included in the email too
<Habbie>
they can, but not always are
<Habbie>
callback sounds neat
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<OscarL>
jmairboeck: FWIW, the current cmake recipe already made use of some libs that are build with cmake (libcppdap and zlib), so I would assume circular deps are already an issue there.
<sen>
What's the usual way to develop on things like vmware-addons? I've been working in ~/haikuports/app-emulation/vmware-addons/work-1.2.2/sources, using haikuporter and installing the new hpkg after each code change, but there's probably a "proper way" to do this kind of thing and I hope this isn't it :)
<sen>
I can do a build directly in the normal git clone, but then I end up with binaries and stuff that I can't install without them being packaged
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<OscarL>
non-packaged dirs exists :-)
<nephele>
sure you can install them. Two ways: stuff them into non-packaged equivalent dirs
<nephele>
or teach the vmware build to make packages on it's own
<nephele>
without haikuporter
<jmairboeck>
OscarL: x512[m] mentioned libcppdap
<sen>
ooo TIL non-packaged dirs, thanks! I'm like a week into Haiku so am still heavily learning, that was a keyword that I didn't know that I can now use to figure this out!
<jmairboeck>
zlib can be built without cmake for sure, they support pretty much anything to build I think
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<OscarL>
jmairboeck: ack, was mentioning what current .recipes do.
<Anarchos>
jmairboeck i finally manage to install all packages needed to run latex. But it should be better if 'pkgman install cmd:latex' pulls down all the mandatory packages.
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<jmairboeck>
Anarchos: I tried that but unfortunately it is not possible to add a dependency on the texlive packages to texlive_core, because at build time the dependency is the other way round (the texlive build depends on texlive_core).
<jmairboeck>
and build packages don't satisfy requirements for haikuporter ...
<Anarchos>
jmairboeck ok
<Anarchos>
jmairboeck would it be possible to log a message on console to show which packages are manually needed ?
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<nephele>
jmairboeck: huh? why would that matter? you can set the dependencies for the packages different to the build deps
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<jmairboeck>
nephele: but not to create such a pseudo-cycle
<nephele>
I'd proabably build all of it in one recipe, define the deps how they should be for the split packages
<nephele>
I don't see where that is a circle if it's only a build time dependency
<jmairboeck>
texlive.recipe requires texlive_core, but if that has a dependency on a package built by texlive.recipe, that can't be built with haikuporter
<jmairboeck>
texlive_core can't be activated in the build chroot for texlive then
<nephele>
I don't see why not
<jmairboeck>
the texlive build package would have to satisfy that dependency, but build-packages are only activated after the dependencies
<jmairboeck>
I tried it, haikuporter doesn't like it
<nephele>
well, portage also can't build doxygen with documentation. So i guess we are not alone with that atleast...
<OscarL>
cmake doesn't seems to use "system" bz2/lzma/zstd, even when instructed to. Not sure if it really doesn't needs those libs in Haiku, or if its just using the embedded ones anyway.
<nephele>
but that should not be an unbreakable dep chain tbh
<jmairboeck>
or could that be worked around with BUILD_PACKAGE_ACTIVATION_PHASE somehow?
<jmairboeck>
I haven't understood that variable yet, I think
<jmairboeck>
OscarL: does it build the built-in ones? Or doesn't it use them altogether?
<OscarL>
does't seems to build them (or I'm not finding them in whenever CMake places the .o/.a files :-P
<OscarL>
"The following generators are available on this platform (* marks default):" <<< maybe they are needed for other "generators" not build on platform Haiku?
<jmairboeck>
they are probably needed for cpack to generate packages
<jmairboeck>
I would guess
<OscarL>
saw some mentions of, for example, zstd, but for packages, yeah... .deb and others.
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<OscarL>
cpack lists 7z and tar+bz2 / tar+zstd so... not sure how it is handling them. Sigh.
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<OscarL>
Mmm, just starting Spring, and CPU is already hitting 66 out of max 70 Tj.Max degrees. Guess I won't be doing much builds this summer.
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<OscarL>
and now im running out of memory, lol :-D
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<OscarL>
how do I kill a thread from KDL?
<OscarL>
sigh.... got a gazllion of Screenshot teams while trying to enter KDL via Shift+Alt+SysRq+d :-/
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<Anarchos>
OscarL you have 'signal' command in kdl, then you can send SIGKILL
<Anarchos>
'help signal' gives you the number for standard signal
<OscarL>
searched for that command, none there. used suspend, and drop instead... had to reboot anyway.
<OscarL>
augiedoggie_: was trying to re-add cmake_gui... will have to wait till my CPU stops trying to melt itself, and after I assign more more RAM to the VM :-(
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<OscarL>
Will have to re-paste this thing... can't remember ever getting more than 62 degrees even on summer... hit 68 today :-/
* OscarL
goes into CPU cooler maintenance mode.
<OscarL>
See you around folks.
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