<OscarL>
Anarchos: git that ACCE0001 device too on two of the netbooks here. You trying to get that "HDD parking" feature going?
<Anarchos>
OscarL well, first i try to mimic the linux classmate driver to get acceleration. second i will try to do hdd parking
<OscarL>
Anarchos: doesn't sounds portuguese to me. Italian, I would bet.
<Anarchos>
where should i put my acpi_accel driver ? I put it in "~/config/non-packaged/add-ons/kernel/drivers/sensor/acpi_accel", but nothing shows up in syslog
<OscarL>
I have some old code for the FnKeys... from drivers for an old Linux version, but they worked better than on modern ones.
<OscarL>
will try to dig it up, maybe you can find something useful.
<OscarL>
Anarchos: is your driver using the old or new API?
<Anarchos>
i copied the acpi_als for the API
<OscarL>
new api then.
<OscarL>
kernel/drivers/sensor/acpi_accel sounds about right to me. Put some "TRACE()" to see if it even attepmts to load?
<OscarL>
might need a reboot?
<OscarL>
Anarchos: beware thou, that for newer API, you should reboot each time you try a new version of your driver.
<OscarL>
at least that's my experience... even if you replace the binary... the old one keeps being used until you reboot.
<OscarL>
thus why I keep using the old api for my little drivers.
<OscarL>
(they unload properly, and you can replace them with new code without rebooting)
<Anarchos>
OscarL i deleted syslog, and rebooted. nothing in syslog
<OscarL>
:-(
<Anarchos>
but there is no 'sensor' folder in /dev
<OscarL>
Anarchos: in case you may find something useful there... https://ufile.io/qs4l2l4y (FnKeys driver for Ubuntu 10.04, they originally came with the pre-installed linux on these netbooks)
<Anarchos>
OscarL mine came with win7 starter
<OscarL>
Here in Argentina they came with WinXP and a custom distro based on Ubuntu. (the oldest netbooks the government handed to students)
<Anarchos>
anyway the volume Fn keys work (surely due to the media key additions by PulkoMandy)
<OscarL>
Ah, good for you, here the Fn keys to not work on Haiku :-)
<OscarL>
(driver I linked worked for both Atom N450 and N455 based netbooks here back then)
<Anarchos>
OscarL i am unable to download the file on Web+
<OscarL>
new FAT32 driver now allows me to mount a 89 GB partition. Has issues with string encoding in file anmes thou.
<Anarchos>
OscarL do you know if i can test the acpi_als driver ?
<OscarL>
(I can send you the .zip it via email if needed)
<OscarL>
Anarchos: no idea about how to test that driver without the required hardware.
<OscarL>
apparently it is an "Ambient Light Sensor device"
<Anarchos>
i did the «#define TRACE_ACCEL 1» to enable the traces
<Anarchos>
and there are some traces in the init_driver function
* OscarL
wishes one could filter out closed tickets, and sort by "mofied date" on simple Trac search.
<OscarL>
or that I could at least save some custom queries.
<OscarL>
(I should add me some bookmarklets, I guess)
<Anarchos>
OscarL in dev.haiku-os.org/ticket, there is a 'columns' menu (folded by default) in which you can add the 'modified' column, which is sortable
<OscarL>
(I was able to save my own queries back then, as I managed the Trac instance in our office :-D)
<OscarL>
what I mean is... i find the default search and queries it too inconvenient for quick one offs.
<OscarL>
"and fields" to the left... "or fields" aaal the way to the right of the screen :-/
<OscarL>
this worked better when scren resolution was 800x600 :-P
* Anarchos
can't find the good location in ~/config/non-packaged/... for his driver to load at startup
* Anarchos
tries to compile acpi_als with traces, and put it in ~/config/non-packaged
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<OscarL>
Anarchos: given that the original is under add-ons/kernel/drivers/sensor, I would use the sam under non-packaged. You might try disabling (or blacklisting) the original one.
<OscarL>
I had to black list agp_gart/intel, for example, while testing some changes (otherwise the one onder non-packaged didn't load.
<OscarL>
(or loaded to late, dunno)
<Skipp_OSX>
The image built fine on 32-bit
<Anarchos>
nothing show up in syslog with the traces enabled in acpi_als
* Anarchos
wonders how those acpi drivers could be init to get traces
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<OscarL>
FWIW, TRACE() worked when I tested acpi_ac, acpi_lid, etc.
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<Anarchos>
OscarL but you had ac/lidon your laptop ?
<Anarchos>
OscarL did it write to syslog at startup ?
<OscarL>
I compiled those drivers to be able to test them (they are not included in the default .iso/packages)
<OscarL>
I recall it writting to syslog, as in: "acpi_ac: status 1" (or 0).
<Anarchos>
ah i didn't blacklist acpi_als. Anyway my acpi_accel has no twin in /system so it should have written some trace
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<Anarchos>
OscarL enough work for today : time to sleep, it is .3:30 here...
<OscarL>
ok. sleep well!
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<OscarL>
in any case, make sure to TRACE() right at the beginning of acpi_ac_support().
<OscarL>
too late :-)
<OscarL>
*acpi_accel_support() in his case, I would guess.
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* OscarL
curses virtio-net for now working anymore on VBox.
<OscarL>
my eysight is gettin too bad for the tiny/subtle change in network status indicator on Deskbar.
<OscarL>
my typing ain't getting any better also.
<Skipp_OSX>
install netpulse
<OscarL>
right, I have that on my 32 bits install :-D
<OscarL>
needs some updates to show send/recieved data.
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<Skipp_OSX>
yeah, agreed
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<OscarL>
would be cool to "merge" netpusl with networkstatus.
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<JulianTheFox>
Good morning, everyone
<OscarL>
and for enable/disable on network preflet to work a bit more reliably.
<JulianTheFox>
It's 4:15AM for me
<OscarL>
morning there. 23:15 here.
<JulianTheFox>
Ah
<JulianTheFox>
Now I encountered a serious issue
<JulianTheFox>
The mouse doesn't want to work sometimes during the machine bootup. There is a 50% chance that it will either work correctly, or just refuse to work
<JulianTheFox>
Even the kyboard doesn't want to work since this is a ThinkPad and the TrackPoint is a part of the keyboard
<JulianTheFox>
The TrackPoint is not working for some reason under Haiku rn, but the keyboard and TrackPad works
* OscarL
heard of some users having their trackpads work only onece in a blue moon.
<JulianTheFox>
Ah
<OscarL>
Guess it is some incomplete initialization? Sometimes booting into other OSes and rebooting can make things work...
<JulianTheFox>
Here, the problem is that there is a 50% chance on bootup that Haiku will either accept the keyboard and UltraNav, or will just refuze to use them
<OscarL>
or break instead :-D
<JulianTheFox>
I don't know
<JulianTheFox>
The TrackPoint is malfunctioning rn, I only have the keyboard and TrackPad working right now
<JulianTheFox>
For more detail, I'm on a Lenovo ThinkPad SL510 right now
<augiedoggie>
if you dd the image then it will be difficult to resize the partition
<JulianTheFox>
Oh, I see
<JulianTheFox>
Thanks Skipp_OSX
<Skipp_OSX>
or you can follow instructions above, diskimage register iso format usb, install Haiku to it.
<Skipp_OSX>
my patch would make that method easier by allowing you to double-click the iso to mount it, you'd still have to do the rest or the dd part at the bottom
<OscarL>
another case of "this ain't perfect, so better have nothing" :-P
<Skipp_OSX>
I guess, it implements the enhancement in a straightforward manner
<Skipp_OSX>
I guess my looping over device numbers was too hacky
<OscarL>
I appreciate the focus on quality (and it indeed can yeild cool results), but sometimes... meh.
<JulianTheFox>
I'm running the command now, and I think that it works, the hard drive activity is higher, and the USB disk activity is on full time
<Skipp_OSX>
well that's a good sign
<JulianTheFox>
I'll afterwards go into the DriveSetup and I'll see if it did succeed
<OscarL>
dd should default to status=progress if isatty(). (unless instructed to be quiet)
<JulianTheFox>
if it did, I remember that there should be 2 partitions and rest of the drive was not formatted
<OscarL>
long process, no output other than led activity (if even that)... not great.
<JulianTheFox>
Yea
<JulianTheFox>
Also, just curious, what is the terminal command for Haiku that clears the terminal? (AKA gets rid of the text that was previously)
<OscarL>
that settles it
<Skipp_OSX>
clear
* OscarL
adds "alias dd='dd status=progress'" to his bash profile
<JulianTheFox>
It's done
<Skipp_OSX>
or opt+K to kill the rest of the line
<OscarL>
alt+l to clear the whole buffer.
<OscarL>
(or Ctrl+L if you're an heretic, like me)
<JulianTheFox>
Well, it's time to reboot the Haikubook and see if it would want to boot off of the pendrive
<Skipp_OSX>
ctrl+k to kill line
<JulianTheFox>
Be right back, everyone
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<OscarL>
trying to collect data regaring some intel_extreme driver issues... keep getting unrelated KDLs :-(
<scantysnax>
i have this old(ish) toshiba satellite laptop. it boots a haiku-anyboot iso supports everything, and runs just fine. after install the boot partition isn't found, despite preparing bfs partition
<scantysnax>
prior to install
<OscarL>
marked as active?
<scantysnax>
yes
<OscarL>
/bin/makebootable ?
<scantysnax>
haven't tried that one yet. note i put the laptop away until tomorrow.
<scantysnax>
too much troubleshooting makes headaches
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<OscarL>
same here with these damn netbooks :-(
<scantysnax>
it's so frustrating.
<OscarL>
want to finally report one thing... 5 more appear that doesn't allow me to do the one I want.
<scantysnax>
what do you want to do?
<OscarL>
report some issues regarding intel_extreme driver on Atom N450.
<scantysnax>
drivers..... oh god
<OscarL>
need to collect clean syslogs for different scenarios...
<scantysnax>
yeah, it's no joke.
<OscarL>
but keep getting KDLs
<scantysnax>
:(
<OscarL>
this time a syslog survived... seems app_server is crasking due to some "vm_page_fault" / "Bad address"
<OscarL>
app_server: "Application for user 0 does not supports the current server protocol (0)".
<OscarL>
if you say so!
<scantysnax>
wow
<scantysnax>
that's quite a bug
<OscarL>
to be fair, not sure if that one is a harmless message, and the syslog is reliable, seeing other threads crashing too.
* OscarL
tries yet again to get a clean syslog.
<scantysnax>
where does syslog live?
<OscarL>
I will disable SMP to try to make things more stable.
<OscarL>
/var/log/syslog/
<scantysnax>
don't have that on my end.
<scantysnax>
maybe that's a good thing.
<OscarL>
"ls /var/log/syslog/" should show at least a syslog file in there.
<OscarL>
you won't see "/var" from Tracker, thou.
<scantysnax>
~> ls /var/log/syslog/
<scantysnax>
ls: cannot access '/var/log/syslog/': Not a directory
<OscarL>
duh, "ls /var/log" then :-D
<scantysnax>
oh okay there's stuff in there.
<OscarL>
told you I'm going crazy :-D
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<scantysnax>
it happens
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<JulianTheFox>
Long story short, it did work, and now, I have 2 Haikubooks :)
<OscarL>
nice
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<OscarL>
Skipp_OSX: any chance you can you make Tracker *not* accept input in the 0-31 (control chars) range when editing filenames?
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<OscarL>
I keep hitting ctrl+c when I mean alt+c (or viceversa, I lost track already).
<OscarL>
Same thing drives me nuts on most text inputs across Haiku, BTW.
<OscarL>
IMO, those should be filtered by default, and only accepted by specialized views.
<OscarL>
Tracker crashes on some screen resolution changes. Segment violation around BBitmap::Bounds() (from BPrivate::BackgroundImage::ScreenChanged())
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<JulianTheFox>
I'm back, I'm now on a Pentium M system
<JulianTheFox>
Even here, Haiku is very responsive
<OscarL>
cool!
* JulianTheFox
is running Haiku on HP Compaq TC4200 with Pentium M 1,86GHz and 1GB of RAM
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<OscarL>
I keep getting media_addon_server crashes (on different machines). "BTimeSource::PerformanceTimeFor: performance time too large".
<OscarL>
can't find it mentioned on the forum or on Trac, but I was pretty convinced this has been talked about at least :-/
<OscarL>
hrev57919 introduced that debugger call, it seems.
<OscarL>
should poke waddlesplash about it :-)
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<jpelczar>
@OscarL: Ultimately I want to continue my work on ARM64 port (and possibly RISCV). The only thing I was stuck with was C library, however not sure if it was "modernized" after that time to support architectures other than x86
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<OscarL>
All I've read is that RISCV boots to desktop (on at least one board). x512[m] is the man to talk about that one :-)
<OscarL>
oanderso[m]: has been active on the arm64 front too.
* OscarL
just reads the commit logs and nods in admiration.
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<Begasus>
g'morning Jixt!
<Begasus>
OscarL remember Jixt?
<OscarL>
mmm, I'm afraid not :-(. From beshare times?
<OscarL>
but... my memory ain't what used to be, so... :-D
<Begasus>
PhotoGrabber rings a bell?
<OscarL>
that one yes.
<Begasus>
:)
<OscarL>
that ".be" looks suspicious. We're getting invaded!
<Begasus>
:D
<Begasus>
I'm getting backup :P
<OscarL>
"BeDigiCam" sounds even more bells :-)
<Jixt>
Hello Begasus.
<Begasus>
whoot! right! :D
<Jixt>
BeDigiCam indeed. Long time ago.
<OscarL>
:-)
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<oanderso[m]>
Oh awesome, now I'm crashing QEMU
<Begasus>
oanderso[m], progress? ;)
<OscarL>
I crash Tracker every time I change resolution. Crash dissapears if I re-instate the Haiku logo backround image :-D
<Begasus>
conspiracy? :P
<OscarL>
I think I "broke" the intel_extreme driver on this netbook with so much testing.... Removed vesa, and Screen_data... I must be missing some setting file I could reset.
<Begasus>
can't blame upstream then :)
<OscarL>
~/config/settings/system/app_server/workspaces might be it? /me nukes it and hopes to regain a working 1024x600 screen :-)
<OscarL>
"segment violation" on BBitmap::Bounds().
* phschafft
waves a very good morning.
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<OscarL>
should we add an "|| fShowBitmap->fBitmap == NULL" to the first check to avoid the crash?
<OscarL>
good day phschafft.
<phschafft>
:)
<Begasus>
'morning phschafft
<phschafft>
I just meassured the speed of my SHA-1 implementation. it takes ~80 seconds to hash 1MByte of data on my 8 bit system running at 16MHz
<OscarL>
(one way to find out... /me can sense another one of his famous one-line patches in the near future)
<phschafft>
I'm _very_ pleased with that result.
<Begasus>
+1 phschafft (I guess) :D
<OscarL>
pretty impressive, I would say, no?
<phschafft>
that is ~104kbit/s hashing speed. :)
<Nephele>
Skipp_OSX: you there?
<Nephele>
good morning Begasus, phschafft, OscarL
<OscarL>
hey nephele
<Nephele>
OscarL: do you know the song "three line diff"?
<phschafft>
OscarL: it is like 10 times faster than what I was hoping for. and like 100 times faster than what I need.
<OscarL>
heard of it reacently nephele (a link you shared, IIRC) :-)
<Nephele>
OpenBSD song :)
<OscarL>
yeah, that one.
<Nephele>
I am very amused of the idea that it will only take N lines, and then it becomes more and more complex
<Nephele>
can relate
<OscarL>
phschafft: awesomo! more spare cyles to waste elsewere! :-P
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<OscarL>
*cycles.
<Nephele>
bah, can someone restore the link colors on the websites to the color my dark mode had them? I dunno why they were changed, but the new blue is too dark and unreadable
<OscarL>
first I couldn't reproduce the Tracker crash on my VM. Added the Haiku-logo background to all workspaces, removed it, now it crashes again on resolution changes. good, good.
<Begasus>
crash is good? :P
<OscarL>
being able to reproduce it is :-)
<OscarL>
now I can properly test my "fix".
<Begasus>
;)
<Nephele>
Begasus: reliable crash is good indeed
<Nephele>
crash that only happens on random tuesdays are much harder ;)
<Begasus>
I know nephele :)
<phschafft>
OscarL: jup. but it means something else as well: the code is useful for additional applications that require higher speed as well. Not just for the limited usecase I implemented it for,
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<OscarL>
less time spent on sha1, more time for donkey rides!
<phschafft>
a little later today actually.
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<OscarL>
yay! no more crash with my libtracker.so LD_PRELOADed, crashes again with previous one. Good enough for me.
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<phschafft>
:))
* Begasus
is confused
<Begasus>
you replaced a crash with another crash?
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<OscarL>
nah... crash doesn't happens with modified libtracker.so, but crash re-appers when using the "default" one from /system/lib/
<Begasus>
ah, so you didn't replace the system one
<OscarL>
No. Stopped Tracker with launch_daemon, then used "LD_PRELOAD=generated/.../libtracker.so /system/Tracker"
<OscarL>
faster to test it that way,
<OscarL>
(and revert back to regular libtracker.so)
<OscarL>
now the hard part... commit message :-)
<Nephele>
"change the thing to fix the thing so it stops doing the thing"
<Begasus>
heh
<OscarL>
with an "if in doubt, ask nephele", that should do it :-P
<phschafft>
OscarL++
<Nephele>
OscarL: better change my nickname >.>
<Nephele>
heh, i am in the credits of 0ad. i forgot about that
<OscarL>
"Icons" screensaver rules. Should be called "Icons!" for extra excitment!
<Nephele>
debug now screensaver
<OscarL>
been there, done that... me pushes to gerrit, and puts on the sunglasses!
<OscarL>
:-P
<Nephele>
installed a testing release, now my steck deck can't go to sleep anymore in desktop mode... but it's still kde 5 something
<Nephele>
kinda old for kde to advertise it on it's website
<Nephele>
lol, they have a screenshot of the steam deck running kde 6 on the website... but it doesn't run it. Did they just install another linux for that, or is that a fake screenshot. hmm
<Begasus>
kde5? if you mean KF5, it's not dead yet :)
<Nephele>
Begasus: kde plasma and kde frameworks now both ship with versions > 6 something
<Nephele>
I was able to install that on my m1 macbook, but not on the intel macbook... to my suprise
<Nephele>
on the intel one this needs yet-another community fork of linux to run (linux that is) I would have assumed more mainline support .-.
<Begasus>
ECM is > 6 but that works for KF5 and KF6, plasma currently on >6
<Begasus>
but yeah, default new installs will be > 6 I suppose
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* OscarL
curses gerrit blinking all white before turning into dark mode :-(
<Begasus>
BeOS style! blinking lights :D
<Nephele>
I tried to take care that websites don't do that in WebPositive, making sure there is always a background color that prevents this, even when the webkit view didn't draw yet
<Nephele>
... but then you have cool frameworks that think dark mode is a style to load later...
<Nephele>
and i can't do much about that, other than point out the website is overcomplex
<Nephele>
should really get a native client for gerrit
* OscarL
half-remembers touching the gertty recipe, but not more than that.
<Nephele>
OscarL: I want to make like an openapi/swagger generater for netservices2
<Nephele>
then we have a client lib we can use to build a native application ontop of
<Nephele>
should make it easier to create more native apps for these sorts of cool websites ;)
* Nephele
is easily distracted and bad at starting new projects
<OscarL>
kind of like those apps you could use to interface with several web forums from the same interface, I guess.
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<OscarL>
yeah, we should all learn from Begasus to stay focused!
<OscarL>
Man that never ever gets side-tracked!
<Nephele>
can't have both OscarL :D
<Begasus>
lol
<OscarL>
(just do not mention any new program that might be ported around him)
<Begasus>
just write them down for starters :)
<Nephele>
there is this $videogame that needs $expensive3dgraphicscard but when $3ddriver arrives it would be cool to have ported already!
<OscarL>
can see Begasus starting to track dependencies already.
<Begasus>
Untill then you could still use M$ :P
<Begasus>
nah, busy with other thing(s) :P
* Nephele
reads ms and thinks "Multiple sclerosis"
<Begasus>
so far no one stepped up on the thread at the forum about ResidualVM
<Nephele>
Begasus: I have a amd64 tablet that runs windows 10, and only because I thought "it has efi, surely i can put haiku on it"
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes eca89ae - qt6_base: bump version
<gordonjcp>
phschafft: ooh, 8-bit system?
<Begasus>
ah, 3dEyes also bumped to 6.7.2 :D
<Begasus>
about 30 to go there :)
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<Anarchos>
dovsienko i was always too lazy to learn assembly...
<phschafft>
dovsienko: no, all C.
<dovsienko>
I tried two times (Z80 and DOS/80386), but did not get beyond basic examples due to lack of good development tools and books/teachers appropriate for my level
<dovsienko>
though learned the hang of paged virtual memory, registers, CPU flags and the likes
<phschafft>
gordonjcp: doing a bit of µC work here. that resulted me starting SIRTX. while all indepdenent projects they move forward alongside.
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<phschafft>
dovsienko: generally I dislike working in ASM as it in most cases result in way more complicated code, way worse software quality, and generally slower code. so I keep it to the parts that it's needed for some reason.
<gordonjcp>
phschafft: SIRTX?
<gordonjcp>
dovsienko: you should look into Forth :-)
<dovsienko>
people that develop bootloaders and early stage OS kernel code often have to use assembler, often different code for different hardware
<phschafft>
dovsienko: yes. but I must say that it normally only takes less than 20 lines of asm to get it into a state you can safly run C code.
<phschafft>
those initial bits are exactly what ASM is fine for. but it should be avoided once you can run some solid language.
<phschafft>
gordonjcp: my "little" operating system.
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<dovsienko>
korli has updated the libpcap Haiku port, now tcpdump works much more correctly on Haiku nightly and is supposed to work on R1/beta5 when it becomes available
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes c111345 - qt6_shadertools: bump version
<Begasus>
grabbing psi_plus-1.5.1646-1-x86_64.hpkg and moving it to /Opslag/haikuports/packages/psi_plus-1.5.1646-1-x86_64.hpkg another one down :)
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<gordonjcp>
phschafft: which 8-bitter does it run on? :-)
<JulianTheFox>
I'm back
<gordonjcp>
phschafft: re 20 lines of assembler, that's kind of how Forth is
<phschafft>
gordonjcp: currently it runs on AVR and a generic hosted POSIX port. there is also an experimental ix86 port.
<gordonjcp>
phschafft: you implement maybe a dozen words or so in assembler, and then the rest of Forth is written in Forth
<phschafft>
hm.
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<gordonjcp>
you don't have to have a command interpreter or anything
<JulianTheFox>
Does anyone know why suddenly HaikuDepot decreased from few thousands to only less than 200 packages?
<gordonjcp>
you can "hand-assemble" the primitives into more complex words
<dovsienko>
in practical terms, "tcpdump -D" now lists what can actually be used for packet capture, packet counters and timestamps are correct and packet filtering always works correctly (not faster though)
<JulianTheFox>
I mean, I'm wondering why some time ago the HaikuDepot had a few thousand avaiable packets to install, but now, the number is less than 200
<jpelczar>
phschafft: I don't even bother with assembly, even for bootloader, most of the time. The only rare case would be e.g. CPU firmware, where you need specific condition and memory access layouts. I just set up enough state to run C++ code (all you need is valid stack pointer). This works fine even for state before MMU is set up. For more complex stuff we use code generators which translate e.g. Lauterbach Trace32 scripts directly into C.
<phschafft>
gordonjcp: personally I'm just very happy with C. and it works very nicely for this task.
<phschafft>
jpelczar: yes.
<phschafft>
my words.
<JulianTheFox>
dovsienko, do you maybe know why's the case that I said?
<JulianTheFox>
Like, before, I remember that there was LibreOffice avaiable, and now, it's gone
<phschafft>
jpelczar: for SIRTX the boot code on x86 only sets up the initial stack verifies that it got a valid multiboot handle from the boot loader. if it doesn't find one it prints some error message. so if you start it on some other system it nicely tells you it's a kernel image.
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 8a7d3c2 - qt6_svg: bump version
<phschafft>
maybe at some point I might even merge the ix86 code and the POSIX port so you can use it whatever way.
<dovsienko>
JulianTheFox: my VM is running the latest nightly snapshot of Haiku and HaikuDepot seems to have the usual number of packages (it does not show the exact number)
<dovsienko>
JulianTheFox: is the category select set to "all categories"?
<JulianTheFox>
Yes
<JulianTheFox>
Tho, why do I get so small amount of packages avaiable?
<JulianTheFox>
Now, I unselected "show installed packages", and the number is now only 47...
<dovsienko>
phschafft: assembler was one of the things I recognised as being above my head (requires good knowledge of the hardware) early on, so I went learning other things (Linux and POSIX) and then network-related software
* phschafft
nods.
<phschafft>
btw. if anyone likes to play with SIRTX ping me, I have some instance connected to the web for demonstration :)
<dovsienko>
JulianTheFox: what is the output of "uname -v"?
<phschafft>
dovsienko: I'm also more from the network side. first a little more hardware, now more software.
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<JulianTheFox>
Hold on, let me run the command in terminal
<JulianTheFox>
hrev56578+97 Aug 8 2024 06:02:
<dovsienko>
that's R1/beta4, and something was done to beta4 ports to get ready for beta5
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 5bcc2c2 - qt6_declarative: bump version
<dovsienko>
JulianTheFox: if you changed the Haiku repository too, you likely need to run "pkgman full-sync" and reboot into the new system
<JulianTheFox>
Okay, thanks
<JulianTheFox>
Over all, Haiku is a nice OS, it's light for the hardware, has some interesting built-in apps, and the GUI is nice. It's based off of BeOS, and it had a really cool GUI. I'm glad that today a group of people wrote a new OS based on BeOS
<JulianTheFox>
I love how light the OS is and I love its GUI
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<Anarchos>
Begasus what is the best IDE to your opinion ?
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<EnriqueMG[m]>
release the kraken!
<EnriqueMG[m]>
:D
<coolcoder613>
Anarchos: I think Begasus uses Cudatext
<Anarchos>
coolcoder613 does it do automatic completion ?
<coolcoder613>
No idea, I don't use it
<coolcoder613>
Ask Begasus
<coolcoder613>
Anarchos: I would recommend Genio, not sure about the completion there though
<Begasus>
I mainly use cudatext as texteditor
<Begasus>
probably Genio would be the better option as it's native
<Nephele>
OscarL: any idea why tracker gets into the situation that fShowingBitmap is set, but without a bitmap?
<EnriqueMG[m]>
Koder works great
<OscarL>
nephele: no clue, to be honest.
<OscarL>
nephele: at first it didn't happen on my VM (that hasn't had a background image for some months), but adding, and then removing a background did make it trigger there aswell as on the netbook I saw it first.
<OscarL>
Pe for (pretty spartan) life :-P
<Begasus>
Pe is also still main editor here
<Anarchos>
coolcoder613 i always prefer native solution :)
<waddlesplash>
jpelczar: have you benchmarked any of your "optimizations"? some look like they would be negligible performance gains for a lot of extra code
<JulianTheFox>
I'm back, I got Telegram working on Haiku
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 50fdcb4 - psi_plus, revbump for openssl3 (#11040)
<Skipp_OSX>
sounds pretty not good WebPositive crashing on haiku-os.org link
<JulianTheFox>
Anyways, Haiku is really wonderful OS, it is very light for the hardware, it's modern, has a simple GUI, and is good alternative to turn old PCs into posibble daily drivers
<BrunoSpr>
"good alternative to turn old PCs into posibble daily drivers" Hell no! HAIKU can do better with fast modern systems! Why to use it on old PCs?
<JulianTheFox>
Haters out of the way, please.
<HaikuUser3>
yes Haiku i love it.
<JulianTheFox>
I wanna use Haiku on older PCs because it is really not wasting any efficieny, and it makes old PCs performing excelent again
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<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli d8bb561 - llvm18: enable profile for Haiku
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<Skipp_OSX>
only because Haiku doesn't yet support 3d acceleration
<Habbie>
i think the two things don't bite eachother. it's just that the list of nice OSes for old PCs is shorter :)
<Begasus>
I'm using Haiku on a slighly new(ish) laptop, that's not old! :P
<Skipp_OSX>
You'll know when we've gotten there because the project will release Haiku R1.
<Begasus>
Hope I'll still be around then :)
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<Habbie>
Skipp_OSX, right, anything else on the R1 list?
<Skipp_OSX>
I cannot speak for the entire project, but I think the goal of R1 at this point is a full-featured OS. Package Management put us into beta, and once we are confident we will release R1.
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<nipos>
This is the forum topic that tracks progress on it
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<nipos>
A working binary exists on Github releases,but it crashes very often,not really usable yet.
<hsp>
thanks
<JulianTheFox>
What command in the Haiku terminal delets directories?
<nipos>
rmdir or rm -r (if it has contents)
<nipos>
The same as in all Unix-based systems
<Skipp_OSX>
firefox port is a big step forward for Haiku... next we need to be able to enable 3d support for it.
<Skipp_OSX>
then R1, then world domination.
<hsp>
copy & paste via middle mouse button would be cool for Haiku
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<Anarchos>
hsp it works
<nipos>
I personally think 3d acceleration is overrated.I prefer the extremely fast and responsive software rendering over the "accelerate everything" approach of major BSD desktops that feels everything but responsive,only for having funny but useless animations
<hsp>
??
<hsp>
Anarchos, ??
<Anarchos>
hsp i paste texts with middle button on haiku
<nipos>
But yeah,having Firefox (and then hopefully also LibreWolf) will be a very big step.Then I'll probably switch my main machine from OpenIndiana to Haiku
<JulianTheFox>
I just navigated to the folder, and I deleted everything there
<JulianTheFox>
It worked
<hsp>
Anarchos, this does not work for me
<nosycat>
nipos, people have started to forget there's such a thing as "no 3D acceleration". You try to tell them about it and they look at you like a time traveler from another dimension.
<nosycat>
"Of course computers have 3D acceleration as a matter of fact. How else?"
<nipos>
Maybe it's because I don't care about games and never really did,but 3D acceleration really doesn't matter to me
<Skipp_OSX>
yay
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<Skipp_OSX>
you need 3d acceleration to play videos on youtube at full resolution stuff like that.
<hsp>
Anarchos, Have you installed anything for this?
<Skipp_OSX>
The first thing people do afteer loading up Haiku is go to youtube.com try to watch video then curse.
<nipos>
I want to do web browsing,web development,app development and some basic office stuff,that's all.A browser with support for uBlock Origin,LocalCDN,LibRedirect to protect you from the disgusting surveillance hell that the internet has become is required for me,but everything else is fine on Haiku
<nipos>
Youtube sucks,actually
<Skipp_OSX>
I wish it were not so, but it is, and I can prove it if necessary, but I think you already know I'm right.
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<Skipp_OSX>
Yeah it does, unfortunately it is the 2nd most popular website in existence after google.com
<nipos>
Google sucks even more lol
<nipos>
I haven't touched their disgusting shit for years
<Anarchos>
hsp no
<nipos>
I mean I hate all of GAFAM and big tech,but Google is by far the worst
<Skipp_OSX>
unfortunately also the case, but until Haiku takes over the world dominating all other OSs and platforms we'll have to deal with this time of darkness and ignorance.
<nosycat>
Skipp_OSX, case in point. "How else are you supposed to display a (checks notes) 2D image? There's only one way: smear it over a texture that faces the camera."
<Anarchos>
hsp it is a usb mouse
<hsp>
ok
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<JulianTheFoxxo>
I have an urgent problem
<JulianTheFoxxo>
On the Haiku drive icon on the desktop, the leaf turned into a bug
<JulianTheFoxxo>
Does it mean that the drive is corrupted?
<Anarchos>
JulianTheFoxxo that is normal
<Anarchos>
JulianTheFoxxo it indicates the boot drive
<dovsienko>
ransomware. get your bitcoins ready
<JulianTheFoxxo>
Anarchos: I thought that there was a leaf icon previously
<nipos>
Skipp_OSX: And I'm sure you get a lot better results watching a video using Invidious which shows videos from Youtube in a not-so-bloated-and-JS-heavy interface.Or using any local player that uses yt-dlp in the background.The website is just utter garbage and I see no reason to try supporting it in any way.
<Skipp_OSX>
because the kids love it
<Anarchos>
JulianTheFoxxo no the leaf is on the deskbar menu
<nipos>
I love clean software without ads,without trackers and without unneeded bloat
<Skipp_OSX>
You forced me to provide evidence, even though my claim should be obvious.
<nipos>
By the way,I find it quite concerning that there's such a big topic about youtube videos in the forum,and not a single one on any alternative video platform.It really wouldn't hurt to decentralize that stuff more.Or at least link to it using Invidious...but no... 🙄
<PulkoMandy>
JulianTheFoxxo: The bug on the disk is for nightly builds I think. There are various other changes like the logo in the About System app
<nosycat>
Sadly most people who are likely to discover Haiku aren't likely to know or care about alternatives.
<nosycat>
They'll just ask why Haiku doesn't have the exact same stuff as every other OS.
<nipos>
I'd expect people who care about alternative OSes to care/know more about alternatives in general than the average Windows user
<scantysnax>
OS Uptime [Haiku]: 23 hrs 24 mins 13.318 secs
<scantysnax>
oops
<phschafft>
and back.
<nipos>
I first degoogled,then I moved to Linux,then I moved to BSD,and finally Haiku :D
* Anarchos
could not get traces from acpi_als driver
<Skipp_OSX>
This is the reality we live in whether you accept it or not.
<nipos>
Position 7 is the only one of them I visited within the last few years lol
<Skipp_OSX>
yes, but the unwashed masses are not so disciplined.
<nipos>
I make my own reality.It's a bit sad to see people crying about mainstream shit not working rather than using and embracing free software alternatives,but that doesn't mean I also have to use that crap,luckily
<Skipp_OSX>
thank you for admitting this.
<Skipp_OSX>
My reality is based on facts and evidence, in other words I live in actual reality not one I've manufactured for myself.
<Skipp_OSX>
Haiku is going for mass-market appeal, as difficult and fickle as that is, and despite the many bumps and bruises we will suffer along the way.
<nipos>
I hope there will be one or another chance to push free software and privacy-respecting alternatives instead of generating even more traffic for big tech
<Begasus>
this went easier as I thought :) grabbing erlang-20.1-3-x86_64.hpkg and moving it to /Opslag/haikuports/packages/erlang-20.1-3-x86_64.hpkg
<nipos>
I mean we already have Plasmatube,that plays the videos in a native player and without all the ads and trackers.If someone complains that the crappy website doesn't work,just point them to that.
<scantysnax>
Begasus, what does "Opslag" mean?
<Skipp_OSX>
as I have demonstrated, the forces at work are beyond our control to educate or offer alternatives.
<Begasus>
scantysnax, something like "Storage" translated, just a seperate partition where my "work" resides :)
<scantysnax>
ah okay, thanks :-)
<nipos>
I don't have a Google account for obvious reasons,but if I did,I'd just comment under every Haiku video that criticizes the ability to play Youtube videos,that working alternatives exist...and hope that at least 1% or so tries it...
<Skipp_OSX>
Also, the Haiku project takes money from Google for GSoC so we are beholden to "big tech" whether you like it or not.
<Begasus>
nipos, Haiku doesn't have plasmatube (or you should've build it yourself :)
<nipos>
I was pretty sure I saw it in the depot?
<Begasus>
nope, screenshots by me probably
<nipos>
Oh right,then it would be good to have it in the Depot,of course
<Begasus>
still some issue on kirigami
<Skipp_OSX>
This is very much reminding me of Steve Jobs getting up on stage at MW and inviting Big Brother Bill Gates to the crowd of boos and jeers.
<nosycat>
Saying "this is how things are" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
<Begasus>
and ffmpeg says on pretty much the uri is forbiden ;)
<nosycat>
I mean, obviously. The world spins, rain falls. Where else are you going to stay dry if not in a cave.
<Begasus>
but I don't have a indivious account (not sure if that matters)
<nipos>
Begasus: Hm ok,good to know.Hope it will get solved eventually,but for me personally it doesn't matter as I dislike videos in general
<Skipp_OSX>
People ran macs in the 90's thought of themselves as part of the resistance too.
<nosycat>
Invidious is self-hosted. I'm not sure instances can even have user accounts.
<Skipp_OSX>
Resistance to Microsoft and Google, to big tech's evil sway.
<nipos>
Invidious doesn't require accounts.They exist for stuff like subscriptions,but you can watch everything without an account just fine
<Begasus>
just can't stand loose ends, and this is one I wanted to see if it works (even got help from upstream) :D
<Skipp_OSX>
Well, more Microsoft than Google then.
<nipos>
I never had a Mac,because unfortunately I don't have this magic tree that grows banknotes instead of leaves lol But I also don't see how Apple should be better than other big tech companies.In fact,a ungoogled Android phone gives me more freedom than iOS with their walled-garden would ever do.I still hate it.Blackberry OS was so much better in each and every way.
<Begasus>
for the record nipos, plasmatube should build out of the box when deps are installed, should all be available afaict
<nipos>
That's great,but then it doesn't qualify as "just quickly install that instead of using the crappy website" recommendation for newbies who want to watch videos.I personally don't need it,I never watch videos.
<Begasus>
can't chew everything out for everybody, some work never hurts :)
<HaikuUser3>
i use Qmplay2
<Begasus>
works fine too
<nipos>
The easiest thing is probably still "just replace youtube[.]com with yewtu.be"
<nipos>
But good to know there are a few usable alternatives
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 2b162ce97262 - VMKernelArea: Ensure it's final class
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 31b7065940be - kernel/slab: Remove terminating 0 from kBlockSizes.
<Skipp_OSX>
w00t
<Skipp_OSX>
It's always been the goal of the project to load up the YouTube since that's what the people want, unfortunately it is an uphill battle that we usually only win briefly just after release before something (Google does) breaks it again.
<Skipp_OSX>
Regardless of alternatives to YouTube, we need 3d acceleration in the browser for video playback which uses codecs which use the gpu to accelerate the video playback. Well "GPU" in quotes, usually something inside the CPU, the so-called "integrated" GPU.
<Skipp_OSX>
In the Firefox port example, the --disable-gpu flag.
<Skipp_OSX>
We might have enough software rendering support to actually get that to work without the need for fancy 3d drivers, and that's good enough except video playback won't perform as smoothly as other platforms that are able to utilize the GPU hardware to speed things up. There is working going on there though, we'll get it at some point, just have to wait until the work is done.
<nipos>
I hope we can at least avoid using hardware acceleration for each and everything in the UI. I don't mind hardware accelerated video playback, but rendering simple windows and menus and stuff using the GPU doesn't make much sense to me and the BSD desktops (GNOME, KDE,...) that do it feel slow and not as responsive as Haiku
<Skipp_OSX>
3d accelerated app server is another story... I'd like to include some animations, even if those animations are 2d only. Fancy 3d animations and transparency effects are possible someday, but not really on anybody's roadmap currently.
<Skipp_OSX>
App server is single buffered right now and I think that would have to change to do the kinds of composition effects, and the double-buffering is the cause of the lack of responsive UI. It's also what makes crashed applications barf all over the screen when they stop responding to drawing events.
<nipos>
I hope composition effects can at least be disabled if it's implemented some day.
<Skipp_OSX>
We could copy what Mac OS X did there and save the current application window state to a buffer somewhere, and then if the app crashes or becomes unrespsonive you show the buffered image instead.
<nipos>
Sure, transparent Aero effects like Windows 7 did look sexy, but it doesn't outweight the costs of a slower UI for me.
<Skipp_OSX>
That way you get a picture of what your app used to look like before it crashed that you can move around the screen. You won't be able to interact with it since the thread is not responding, but at least it won't spew garbage into the app_server buffer.
<JulianTheFoxxo>
WebPositive is now crashing no matter to what website I go...
<JulianTheFoxxo>
I need help
<Skipp_OSX>
I thought deleting the settings fixed the problem Julian...
<JulianTheFoxxo>
It didn't sadly...
<JulianTheFoxxo>
I don't know what to do
<Skipp_OSX>
Personally I'd like to see some nice Aero-esque 3d effects in app server, but don't worry, it's no where near to happening at this point, so much would have to be done first that it's not practical.
<JulianTheFoxxo>
Skipp_OSX: do you know other way around that might work?
<Skipp_OSX>
We'd need the 3d component and to redesign app_server, 2 big projects, and even then, you are not alone in your disdain for these kinds of effects.
<Skipp_OSX>
We're still waiting for an updated build of WebPositive on 32-bit I think is the issue, but I don't have a real workaround for it. The old version should not be crashing so something else is up idk what.
<JulianTheFoxxo>
I'm on a 64-bit version, so idk
<Skipp_OSX>
oh ok, then you should have the new webkit package... hmmm idk
<JulianTheFoxxo>
How to downgrade it from master to R1Beta4 that was on my Haikubook originally?
<Skipp_OSX>
I can tell you the answer, but it's probably not a good idea.
<Skipp_OSX>
(since we turned off updates to r1b4)
<JulianTheFoxxo>
I mean, it won't hurt to try
<nipos>
You should able to boot to a previous state in the bootloader, I think?
<waddlesplash>
JulianTheFoxxo: pkgman full-sync
<waddlesplash>
you already switched to beta5 repositories but if you didn't full-sync your packages they may get out of sync
<waddlesplash>
(or just run SoftwareUpdater, that's the GUI equivalent of pkgman full-sync)
<Skipp_OSX>
ok well, reboot, hold down the shift key at startup, it will give you a list of updates to roll back to, roll back to the initial one is how you do what you're looking for.
<JulianTheFoxxo>
Well, I did sync after turning to the master, so yea... And the SoftwareUpdate hangs
<JulianTheFoxxo>
Thanks, I'll do that
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<Skipp_OSX>
Let's see how this goes... sometimes you have to allow people to make the mistakes before they get to the actual answer...
<Skipp_OSX>
Like in that ThinkPad 410 video, he was having trouble with beta4 so installed beta3 I was like... ok sure that's not going to work... but ok.
<gordonjcp>
that seems an odd decision
<gordonjcp>
what was the thinking behind it?
<Skipp_OSX>
he was trying to install packages with Haiku Depot, it wasn't working, so he though maybe beta4 was the problem and 3 would work better.
<Skipp_OSX>
He also created a bootable usb stick, booted into it, somehow skipped past the first boot prompt and didn't know how to install, didn't know about the leaf menu, and never found the installer app. It was a comedy of errors.
<Skipp_OSX>
It's like watching a blind play-through of a game you know well, you just kind of shake your head and laugh as they struggle.
<Skipp_OSX>
We could do better than we have so far of guiding new users in the right direction, but he also had so many opportunities to learn and ignored them all.
<gordonjcp>
Skipp_OSX: I actually work with someone a bit like that
<gordonjcp>
I need to have a chat with them about it
<gordonjcp>
they're not stupid, or anything, they just have a kind of blind spot about instructions
<Skipp_OSX>
My advice to change Haiku to better guide new users has been met with resistance.
<Skipp_OSX>
"we're" not interested in leading the blind
<Skipp_OSX>
Like, you could click the link we provided and read the instructions, or nah, or install random betas and complain.
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 578732d - erlang, revbump for openssl3 (#11043)
<Skipp_OSX>
I do find it amazing as it's been close to 30 years since Windows 95 was released people still don't know that you're supposed to push the "Start" button.
<Skipp_OSX>
You'd think even if it wasn't intuitive people would adapt, but apparently not all people. I've now watched at least 2 Haiku videos where the person had no clue that the Leaf menu existed, never clicked it, explored drill down menus instead and was lost and confused.
<waddlesplash>
we need to push the Quick Tour more
<waddlesplash>
maybe we should just open it on first boot
<Skipp_OSX>
I forget which version of Windows, I think 8 that Microsoft added a big arrow pointing to the start menu.
<Begasus>
closing down here
<Begasus>
cu peeps!
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<Skipp_OSX>
just the protein where he boots, skips boot prompt, cannot locate the Deskbar/leaf menu or installer. Keep in mind that he has never used Haiku before.
<Skipp_OSX>
protein => part
<Skipp_OSX>
in my previous example he was looking for screen resolution, for this guy it's installer, either way some first time users cannot locate the Deskbar menu
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<Skipp_OSX>
put a menu item on Desktop context menu to open the Deskbar menu?
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] f9123b49e5ba - kernel/allocator: Adjust type of index variable.
<waddlesplash>
mmlr: did you encounter any of those odd crashes from axeld?
<mmlr>
but something scary is going on here, as when these operations fail, either with the previous timeout or with an actual error return, they are apparently never retried and just silently corrupt the filesystem
<waddlesplash>
ouch
<Skipp_OSX>
click me I'm here to help you install or get the screen prefs to change your rez
<waddlesplash>
mmlr: that sounds worth investigating :P
<Skipp_OSX>
once they find the Deskbar menu they usually can find what they're looking for.
<mmlr>
I have not had any crashes, but my bfs has some inodes and dirs that are now broken
<mmlr>
if that was also the case for Axel and that lead to some crashes that are BFS related, it might be the reason
<waddlesplash>
that's what I've done when I've needed this before
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<waddlesplash>
simpler to work with and doesn't need an extra type
<waddlesplash>
... I guess this may lock immediately. hmm, ok
<mmlr>
yeah, that would work too
<mmlr>
ah no it wouldn't indeed
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<mmlr>
unless you also set lockIfNotLocked to false
<waddlesplash>
yes
<mmlr>
you could also use mutex_trylock first and then if it succeeds wrap a MutexLocker around it
<waddlesplash>
yes, that too
<mmlr>
but this seemed simpler
<waddlesplash>
this seems like such a niche usecase that idk if the full type is worth it
<waddlesplash>
but maybe it's useful
<mmlr>
if you do it the other ways it's just a lot more cobbled together IMO
<waddlesplash>
fair enough
<mmlr>
mutex_trylock(), == B_OK?, wrap with MutexLocker alreadyLocked
<waddlesplash>
yes, that
<mmlr>
or MutexLocker (mutex, mutex_trylock(mutex) == B_OK, false) and then still having to check IsLocked() afterwards to know if it worked
<waddlesplash>
yes
<waddlesplash>
really one needs to check IsLocked pretty much always anyway
<mmlr>
this way it is simply MutexTryLocker (mutex), IsLocked?
<waddlesplash>
there is one case where I use mutex_trylock() on purpose inside MutexLocker with lockIfNotLocked = true which is the USB stack
<waddlesplash>
this way the functions work properly if called in KDL
<waddlesplash>
but when not in KDL we can block if necessary
<mmlr>
I actually use it in there just so that there is no mutex_unlock() in virtio_block::do_io that happens before the destruction of the local ConditionVariableEntry
<waddlesplash>
yeah, I saw
<mmlr>
there aren't many users of mutex_trylock overall
<mmlr>
the virtio_rng driver actually has the same problem of leaving the ConditionVariableEntry in the variable on error
<mmlr>
I fixed it locally, but I am completely unable to get anything out of virtio_rng
<waddlesplash>
really?
<waddlesplash>
weird
<mmlr>
ah, I think I know what's going on again
<mmlr>
it's the hrev changing and me using @nightly-raw update
<mmlr>
how do you update an image the most efficient?
<waddlesplash>
? why should the hrev changing cause a problem?
<waddlesplash>
personally when booting in QEMU I just build the full image every time
<mmlr>
because it changes the package name
<waddlesplash>
oh, I see
<waddlesplash>
probably we should fix the @update target to either adjust or delete the activated-packages file
<mmlr>
also just adding commits changes it because of the hrev...+x~dirty naming
<waddlesplash>
anyway, when booting in VMware or with a "dedicated" VM setup rather than just booting the raw image, I just wget the packages I just built
<waddlesplash>
and pkgman install them
<waddlesplash>
from inside the VM
<mmlr>
hmm, I'm not so happy with the turnaround times of these setups
<waddlesplash>
that setup has pretty good turnaround times
<waddlesplash>
jam -16 @nightly-raw haiku.hpkg haiku_devel.hpkg
<waddlesplash>
just rebuilds those packages, no others, since you don't need them
<mmlr>
so you just build the hpkgs and then load them in the vm
<waddlesplash>
yes
<mmlr>
you don't actually produce the image
<waddlesplash>
yep
<waddlesplash>
also I have HAIKU_PACKAGE_COMPRESSION_LEVEL turned down to 1
<mmlr>
ah, that seems more efficient indeed
<waddlesplash>
saves a bunch of time in the "creating the package" step
<mmlr>
good to know
<mmlr>
presumably one could serve the local repo it creates and have pkgman update work with that as well
<waddlesplash>
yes, but then you have to rebuild all the packages and not just those 2
<mmlr>
then one wouldn't need to manually download the packages
<waddlesplash>
I think @nightly still builds source packages?
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<waddlesplash>
but that could be disabled
<mmlr>
it does, it's super annoying
<waddlesplash>
we need to serve those for "real" nightlies due to GPL
<waddlesplash>
but we should add a UserBuildConfig option to turn that off if we don't already
<mmlr>
we already have that
<mmlr>
but it doesn't work
<waddlesplash>
lol
<mmlr>
HAIKU_INCLUDE_SOURCES = 0 ;
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<mmlr>
it's even set so by default
<waddlesplash>
oh, that's actually for third party source packages
<waddlesplash>
GCC and whatever
<mmlr>
but I think having debug enabled somewhere overrides it
<waddlesplash>
not haiku_source itself
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<waddlesplash>
mmlr: oh yeah, debug overrides it, you are correct
<waddlesplash>
I don't set DEBUG globally ever, so I didn't notice
<waddlesplash>
I only set it for specific directories
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<mmlr>
why can't we extend it so that it also applies to haiku_source.hpkg?
<waddlesplash>
so, adjusting that will skip haiku_source for @nightly target
<mmlr>
ah, that's just to save some space on the release medium then
<waddlesplash>
let's do that
<mmlr>
yes
<mmlr>
please
<waddlesplash>
will be nice for me too, I hadn't thought about this before and most of the time I either just build @minimum or @nightly but only 2 packages
<waddlesplash>
sometimes I do build full images though