<Peppersawce>
I wonder if I could still find the old 700mhz Celeron I had
<Peppersawce>
Is that enough ram to run things smoothly?
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<coolcoder613>
erysdren: That's really my BeOS computer....
<coolcoder613>
with half the RAM removed
<Monni>
32-bit processors really didn't need or support a lot of memory... 256 MB was enough for a lot of things and 2 GB was the biggest amount a lot of operating systems or motherboards did comfortably support...
<Peppersawce>
256 is still on the low side for that cpu
<Monni>
I can compile big projects on my 32-bit e500 with just 256 MB ram, but 64-bit i5 cries if I don't have at least 16 GB ram...
<Peppersawce>
I had double around that time
<Peppersawce>
not to brag, ram was dirt cheap we passed it around among friends
<Peppersawce>
now it might be rare
<Peppersawce>
for those motherboards i mean
<Monni>
I used to have several boxes of RAM of different types, but I gave away most of them as I only have one PC that actually needs any old RAM...
<Peppersawce>
Yeah well once you're set there's not much incentive to keep it around :)
<Monni>
I still have RAM chips for old GPUs... those I don't throw away ;)
<Peppersawce>
Neat
<Monni>
The good old days when GPUs had extra sockets for RAM expansion ;)
<Peppersawce>
When big hdds were measured in megs :D
<Monni>
I also have one weird AGP display adapter that is possibly smallest ever made... not much bigger than a match box...
<Monni>
It was also using __declspec, which is reserved on Haiku (and Windows)...
<OscarL>
Good morning Begasus and Monni.
<Monni>
Good morning OscarL
<OscarL>
Begasus: got cmake-gui build against Qt6. Running tests now (seems they are 676 when Qt is enabled)
<Monni>
I'm still using Qt5... Haven't even looked up how much Qt6 breaks things... Still remember all the ugly stuff when I upgraded from Qt3 to Qt4 and from Qt4 to Qt5...
<Begasus>
g'morning OscarL
<Begasus>
+1 OscarL
<OscarL>
To finish the build... had to dust off my PC, repaste the CPU, etc... because it was overheating (still getting pretty toasty :-/), and run the VM with 3 GB of RAM :-)
<Begasus>
heh
<Begasus>
I bet the dependency list is a lot smaller then using Qt5 (and it's dependencies there)
<Monni>
Seems like thermal pads are a lot better than thermal paste... Especially when CPU generates a lot of heat...
<OscarL>
Begasus: same 3 Qt libs as before (core/gui/widget).
<OscarL>
actually... had to add one... libGL because haikuporter complained otherwise :-)
<Begasus>
yeah, but that's on runtime
<Monni>
The issue with Qt usually is that they deprecate stuff that work better than the replacement...
<OscarL>
Monni: I'm using the same past I bougth in 2001. Should probably have bought a smaller one... coz still have about half of it still :-)
<Begasus>
should say that Qt6 bring a lot less dependencies * :)
<OscarL>
s/past/paste/
<Monni>
OscarL: I'm still using the same paste as when I started building PCs... Still have over 75% left...
<OscarL>
:-D
<Monni>
Running at about 60 celsius when in quiet mode, 47 celsius when normal mode...
<OscarL>
this CPU has a thermal limit of 70 C. Was hitting sustained 68 today :-( (now at 50-52 while running cmake tests)
<Monni>
This CPU has 80 C, my old one had 72 C...
<Monni>
I have so big CPU cooler that it takes whole width of the case and the fan is inside the heat sink...
<OscarL>
Begasus: after tests complete, I'll add the results to the .recipe, and open a PR, but it would be nice to get a proper fix for https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/issues/11155 before merging, so I'll most likely open it as Draft.
<Begasus>
haven't yet looked at that OscarL, sorry
<OscarL>
My current heatsink used to belong to and old Sempron. But after lapping it, turned out to work better for this Phenom than the one I had with my previous Athlon :-)
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<Begasus>
will try to give it a run over today
<OscarL>
Begasus: no worries, just mentioning it to let you know that there will not be much of a hurry to merge the cmake PR.
<Begasus>
np
<Begasus>
got grandparents day at the school of the youngest here, so will be out in a bit for a while anyway :)
<OscarL>
enjoy :-)
<OscarL>
seems there's at least one cmake test that crashes (this time saved the report)
<Begasus>
yeah got that here too yesterday, one crash
<OscarL>
"abort() called" seems on purpose.
<Monni>
Mine is Cooler Master Hyper 212 LED...
<Monni>
hehe... big crane outside my window... they're repairing the roof...
* OscarL
was imaging an actual crane... and wondering how a bird was roofing :-)
<OscarL>
*imagining
<Monni>
giraffe, not a bird ;)
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<Begasus>
grabbing gtk4-4.15.6-1-x86_64.hpkg and moving it to /Opslag/haikuports/packages/gtk4-4.15.6-1-x86_64.hpkg
<Begasus>
so far ... :)
<Begasus>
k, bbl :)
<Monni>
When I get all the little things fixed, it will be really easy to recompile stuff from FreeBSD... Change some paths and then just link against libbsd.so ...
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<x512[m]>
> gtk4-4.15.6-1-x86_64.hpkg
<x512[m]>
Begasus: ?
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<phschafft>
just got my DOS 4.0 book from 1988 to confirm that correctl understand the FAT on-disk format.
<coolcoder613>
It *has* changed...
<OscarL>
why on earth pkgman keeps insisting on wanting to install openssl3_man every time I try to install a package with "pkgma install -H" !?!?!
<phschafft>
coolcoder613: yes, still the book was helpful to *confirm* my reading of the docs I found.
<OscarL>
Mmm this gemrb recipe also needs more than 2 GB of RAM to build :-/ /me needs to stick to smaller projects.
<dovsienko>
hi all. as ironic as it is, the clock after my bug got rid in the main application, but in the replicant the bug still stands (I do not understand why). also the main clock and the replicant are off by one second
<OscarL>
dovsienko: hi! I expect that their "pulses" are independent. Same with graphs for ActivityMonitor in replicant vs window.
<OscarL>
dovsienko: regarding the replican behaving differently than your fixed version...
<OscarL>
did you blacklisted the original one? (I'm assuming you have more than one Clock binary in your system.
<dovsienko>
that's one thing, but why does it draw the lines differently?
<OscarL>
the replicant might be being instantiated from a different binary? (happened to me once or twice)
<dovsienko>
it is hrev58159, so the bug fix is in the package. there is something I do not understand (at least I realise that)
<OscarL>
Did you removed the replicant and recreated it?
<dovsienko>
OscarL: I cannot remember, but the matter is this is after a reboot, so how would the old binary survive?
<dovsienko>
I thought a replicant only saves the parameters
<dovsienko>
OK, let's make another one and watch...
<dovsienko>
made another one... the hands are still off
<dovsienko>
yes, persists after a reboot
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<OscarL>
Mmm, no idea dovsienko, sorry. Both replicant and "normal" view share the same code (unlike the older AboutSystem that had different code for both, and that caused isses).
<dovsienko>
at least the problem got smaller
<dovsienko>
does anybody remember if bash was the shell in BeOS?
<OscarL>
one way to find out... /me boots a BeOS VM
<dovsienko>
I do not remember using Terminal in BeOS back at the time
<OscarL>
"/bin/sh --version" give: GNU bash version 2.03.0(1)-
<dovsienko>
thank you
<OscarL>
np.
<dovsienko>
it used to be 2.05 in Linuxes of a similar vintage
<Begasus>
x512[m], had that done some time ago already, this is a newer version then the one I had
<x512[m]>
3deyes also preparing gtk4 recipe.
<Begasus>
nice! this is just a testdrive
<Begasus>
someone looking at in the forum also
<Anarchos>
hello
<Begasus>
hi Anarchos
<Begasus>
x512[m], wonder how he get's around harfbuzz + glib
<x512[m]>
?
<Anarchos>
Begasus want to see a screenshot of my ongoing verifier ?
<Begasus>
gtk4 needs header hb-glib.h
<Begasus>
always like screenies Anarchos :)
<x512[m]>
I just commented it out.
<x512[m]>
Seems something related to right-to-left scripts.
<Anarchos>
Begasus where to post the PNG ?
<x512[m]>
Drag&drop here.
<x512[m]>
(matrix client)
<Begasus>
ah, so it's ok without it :)
<Begasus>
Anarchos tss ... don't have uploadit installed?
* OscarL
really hates this "waiting for build package ... to be activated" issue.
<Begasus>
just add "a" to the recipe name OscarL :)
<OscarL>
tried that earlier today, didn't helped.
<Begasus>
on 32bit I build tokodon like atokodon_x86
<Begasus>
not?
<Begasus>
renamed it in PROVIDES also?
<OscarL>
no, had to reboot.
<Begasus>
upgrade package purpose6_devel-6.6.0-1 to 6.5.0-1 from repository HaikuPorts ... nah, no full-sync :P
<OscarL>
darn repository/recipeChache has a bazillion of outdated recipes... /me nukes it.
<Begasus>
heh, did that yesterday too
<Begasus>
but then still had some packages in ~/haikuports/packages build with haiku nightly that prevented me to build things :)
<Anarchos>
Begasus what is uploadit ?
<OscarL>
I really, really do not want to have to build cmake again just for a silly change that "hp -F cmake_x86" should handle. Sigh.
<Begasus>
Anarchos Tracker add-on
<Anarchos>
Begasus i wasn't aware of that add-on :) Installing.
<Begasus>
pretty handy :)
<OscarL>
unless you're IP blocked from 0x0.st :-P
<Begasus>
then there is OscarL ... :P
<OscarL>
Begasus: removed all cmake recipes under repository, added a time.sleep(5) in HaikuPorter... and now hp -F is just building the whole thing again :-(
* OscarL
gives up for today, and goes to bed :-P
<Begasus>
heh
<Begasus>
have a good sleep :)
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<Anarchos>
Begasus i 'updloadit' it, now how can i know where it went ?
<Begasus>
k, me drops gtk4 attempts
<Begasus>
right-click on the image
<Begasus>
and select the Tracker add-on
<Begasus>
the link is presented to you and you can just paste the link
<Anarchos>
Begasus i just got a notification 'upload running'
<OscarL>
Even "git clean -df" ran in slow motion. Sigh. Anyways... Have a good day fellows!
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<Begasus>
k, restored original harfbuzz packages
<phschafft>
is it morning already?
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<Begasus>
nope phschafft, atleast 12hours away
<Begasus>
here*
<janking>
good morning
<phschafft>
hm.
<Begasus>
Hello there phschafft janking :)
<phschafft>
mau...
<janking>
hi
* phschafft
smiles and just offers Begasus and janking the cookie jar openly.
* Begasus
thanks phschafft and grabs one for today, one for the afternoon coffee
* phschafft
smiles and nods.
<janking>
*Thanks for the afternoon coffe
<janking>
have go and shopping so i se u later :)
<Begasus>
l8r janking
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<Begasus>
hi Peppersawce
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<Peppersawce>
Hi :)
<Peppersawce>
Did anybody write anything about porting libs and making devel packages?
<Peppersawce>
I have some recipes for libxml++ 2 and 5 that work but it's just all merged together in a single package
<Begasus>
seperate libraries? in regards to porting libs/making devel packages I don't know, I've added a post for something simular I think at the forum :)
<Peppersawce>
I'll try and dig it up then
<Peppersawce>
ty
<Begasus>
/Opslag/haikuports/dev-cpp/libxmlpp/libxmlpp-5.4.0.recipe and /Opslag/haikuports/dev-cpp/libxmlpp/libxmlpp2-2.42.2.recipe already here local :)
<Begasus>
devel:libxml++_2.6 ... now why did I needed that specific one again ...
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<Peppersawce>
ah lol
<Begasus>
had been checking something out but it needed the older 2.6 version
<Begasus>
getting older? :P
<Peppersawce>
I just went through that, it's named 2.6 but it refers to all the 2 versions
<Peppersawce>
so 2.42 is a 2.6
<Begasus>
yeah
<Begasus>
had me looking up for quite a while, that I know :D
<Peppersawce>
lol same
<Peppersawce>
Ah so the issue I have is with the command prepareInstalledDevelLib
<Peppersawce>
if I make the devel lib package later the main lib package is basically empty
<Begasus>
- vs _ ?
<Begasus>
prepareInstalledDevelLib \
<Begasus>
libxml++-2.6
<Peppersawce>
I'll give it another run
<Begasus>
you can't use underscore there
<Peppersawce>
ah, that doesn't seem to be the issue, I was using "prepareInstalledDevelLib libxml++-2" tho so ima try changing it
<Begasus>
heh
<Begasus>
it's needs the full library name yes
<Peppersawce>
huh, that fixed it, yeah
<Peppersawce>
tyty
<Begasus>
np, as OscarL mentioned, we can be nitpicking, but that's just because we hope all can learn, we had the same :)
<Peppersawce>
I mean, it's also a good practice
<Peppersawce>
if you don't want to end up managing a spaghetti mess
<Begasus>
right, for some it already is :)
<Peppersawce>
lol I can imagine
<Begasus>
but we "try" to KISS :)
<Peppersawce>
Arch still best linux
<Peppersawce>
Too bad it's still linux :D
<Begasus>
only have a setup in VM on Windows, never tried a real bare metal install
<Begasus>
I like there build system for packages (their "recipes")
<Peppersawce>
bios boots have been fine for ages, especially on old-ish hardware
<Peppersawce>
ah, misunderstood
<Peppersawce>
I've been on Arch for ages, their package system is great
<Peppersawce>
Andd you can reallt finetune your install if you're willing to take the time
<Begasus>
/Opslag/wip/synfig-1.5.3 that was what I was looking it up for :)
<Peppersawce>
Nowadays, I can't be arsed ngl
<Peppersawce>
I'm building libxml2 to try and get Lordsawar to Haiku lmao
<Peppersawce>
too bad it also needs gstreamermm-1
<Begasus>
was that one that is in the PR's you made?
<Peppersawce>
nah I didn't commit this one yet
<Begasus>
ah ok
<Peppersawce>
It's a simple strategy game but it's kinda ugly looking and very old (like GTK2 old)
<Begasus>
doing a build for cmake on 32bit atm to check gemrb later
<Peppersawce>
So it wants gnome2-era stuff
<Begasus>
eeps :P
<Begasus>
think I was stuck on that one here also
<Peppersawce>
nice :)
<Peppersawce>
write in the pr in case you notice stuff
<Begasus>
already commented on the cmake PR :) on 64bit all is good for building/packaging
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<Begasus>
hi zard
<zard>
Hello Begasus :)
* zard
is helping TmTFx with Haiku-PyAPI
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<Begasus>
Peppersawce: Imported target "PkgConfig::GTKMM3" includes non-existent path
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<Peppersawce>
weird
<Peppersawce>
yeah Haiku has that stuff
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<Begasus>
looking into it, doing some sed magic that isn't quite right there
<Peppersawce>
so if the game wants gstreamer-1.0 should I compile 1.0.10 or 1.10.0 ? decisions decisions
<Peppersawce>
I meant gstreamermm
<Begasus>
keep it up with gstreeamer in the repo, that should be the safest as they are tied together
<Peppersawce>
gstreamermm configure looks for gstreamermm *smh*
<Peppersawce>
gemrb dev: For the cache, we only check that the dir is empty, so you don't lose any files. Beyond that standard permission limits apply.
<Peppersawce>
So what's standard permission limits on haiku? That may be the issue
<Peppersawce>
could it be the binary runs on "standard permission limits" based on unix standard or smth?
<Begasus>
no idea sorry, I know how default permissions are in Haiku, but how others interpret them ...
<Peppersawce>
no worries, I'll test some more stuff
<Begasus>
k, seems gemrb doesn't respect CMAKE_INSTALL_BINDIR, so BIN_DIR probably needs to be used, or drop secondaryArchSuffix, change binDir in there :)
<Begasus>
for 32bit*
<Peppersawce>
if it's just a matter of defining -DBIN_DIR=$binDir might as well do it
<Begasus>
yeah, just did that, checking
<Peppersawce>
if that's the case I'll add it to the recipe, changes nothing for 64 bits
<Begasus>
right
<Begasus>
32bit build system not the fastest, but stable enough :)
<Peppersawce>
yeah I'm not sure I should be on 64bits ngl
<Peppersawce>
Ah, okay, I see, I change the create function so a rofs error is ignored in that path
<Peppersawce>
since it's expected behavior here
<nephele>
honestly this seems stupid. I think Haikus behaviour is wrong here
<nephele>
waddlesplash: do you have a comment on that? mkdir returning EROFS when trying to create a dir that already exists in ~/config rather than EEXIST
<nephele>
Peppersawce, augiedoggie_: for patching this technically (in ports) you would need to check EROFS and then afterwards do a stat or something to figure out if the dir actually exists
<nephele>
since EROFS would also be returned when trying to create a dir that doesn't already exist, and isn't equivalent to EROFS in that codepath
<augiedoggie_>
usually the code i've seen will assume that it works and move on to trying to create a subdirectory
<nephele>
that's not defensive programming ;)
<Peppersawce>
this is where it fails if (!str.OpenNew(originalfile)) { return false; }
<nephele>
check how OpenNew is implemented ;)
<nephele>
somewhere it has to check if creating a directory suceeds or not, and there it will also check for EEXIST, and count that as it having suceeded.
<Begasus>
Peppersawce, using $binDir is fine for 32bit, up and running :)
<Begasus>
hi nephele :)
<nephele>
good day Begasus
<nephele>
how are you?
<Begasus>
aside from fighting with atkmm/gtkmm fine thanks :)
<Peppersawce>
does 32bits have the python package?
<Peppersawce>
as in, python2?
<Begasus>
nope Peppersawce, that's disabled/removed from the repo
<Begasus>
you should be able to find it in the history though
<Begasus>
2.7
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<Peppersawce>
ah icic
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<Peppersawce>
so all the old gemrb recipes are broken on everything
<Peppersawce>
should I remove them from the pr?
<Begasus>
no idea, enough for that today :D
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<Peppersawce>
heh alright :)
<nephele>
If you add the recipe for a newer version you can remove the old ones, that is fine
<Begasus>
let's see a bit about ICU ...
<nephele>
they will always be available for reference in the git history
<Begasus>
preferable a "working" version nephele :)
<Peppersawce>
K cool, I think I will, they are unusable as-is
<nephele>
Begasus: meh :P, can do it like webrowsers, port severall ones that are differently broken ;)
<Begasus>
hehe
<Begasus>
atleast those "kinda" work :P
<nephele>
by the way, i send an email to codeberg about an account. So far have not received a response, but hope i can register my acc
<Begasus>
try poking in the matrix channel
<Begasus>
not sure if notoose is around somewhere
<nephele>
lol
<nephele>
In matrix n0toose said he could request it on my behalf, before you said that :D
<Begasus>
heh
<Begasus>
he's been a GCI student a few years back
<nephele>
argh, neochat is driving me crazy
<nephele>
the ui is completely broken, but it's the only matrix client i can open and somehow read messages
<Begasus>
how is it broken?
<Begasus>
last time I checked the KF5 version it was pretty ok
<nephele>
button labels use random elipsis "..." almost all dialog boxes have a completely transparent background
<nephele>
i can't really tell what most of the windows are supposed to do because of that
<Begasus>
ah, kirigami probably
<nephele>
might aswell use a gui in spanish, i can't read any buttons
<Begasus>
can you try launching it from Terminal?
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<Begasus>
bias
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<nephele>
doersn't make a difference :)
<nephele>
oh well
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<Begasus>
switched to dark colors
<nephele>
it seems NeoChat's process also stays behind after closing it. So relaunching it does not work without killing it
<Begasus>
a normal quit will probably leave it behind in Deskbar, atleast it does that here
<Begasus>
to be sure, nuke it with "Alt-q"
<nephele>
it does not stay in deskbar, but a process is still active
<nephele>
it's also very slow at drawing it's ui :(
<Begasus>
maybe I should push the KF6 version :P
<nephele>
if that helps, maybe
<nephele>
would be nice to have a dark theme too in any case
<nephele>
would make it less physically painfull to work with
<Begasus>
those color themes are easy to find
<Begasus>
think I mentioned those in the forum
<nephele>
no. I can only select "default"
<Begasus>
that because you haven't got any on the disk :)
<Begasus>
the breeze package from plasma has 2 color themes in it
<nephele>
i'm not using Haiku to mod linux apps into behaving .-.
<nephele>
qt follows colors fine normally, why can't this?
<Begasus>
can't have it all unless someone steps up to make something simular (native) :)
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<Begasus>
ask upstream nephele, there are a few that don't
<nephele>
Something similar, native: Renga
<nephele>
;)
<Begasus>
does it connect to matrix?
<nephele>
no
<Begasus>
point taken :D
<nephele>
although, it can over a bridge i think
<nephele>
matrix bifrost or something?
<nephele>
maybe i should use that
<Begasus>
mtxclient?
<Begasus>
the library is already there
<nephele>
no, it's a bridge a server can run
<nephele>
don't need to use this on the client side
<nephele>
Renga isn't supposed to be multi-protocol. I think you can use Chat-O-Matic for that?
<Begasus>
ow, long time since I checked on that, no progress for some time there
<nephele>
yeah
<nephele>
in my experience multi-protocol stuff tends to become a "jack of all trades, master of none". but very much in the direction of maybe basic support for many protocols and nothing else
<Monni>
Developers need at least 72 hours in a day...
<nephele>
Begasus: looks better than my version
<Begasus>
2 downsides on this one, need a env in profile, and launch from Terminal to look properly
<Begasus>
haven't figured out the first
<nephele>
why not patch it in that it always uses the codepath for that env?
<nephele>
also, what does it need from terminal?
<Monni>
UI skin hacks are hard to implement without resorting to environment variables as the UI is drawn so early that in most cases it hasn't loaded the configuration file yet..
<nephele>
Monni: for qt?
<Monni>
For a lot of GUI libraries, including Qt...
<Begasus>
nephele, though with one of the comments from 3dEyes in the forum on the browsers I could have another look at kirigami, no luck yet on that
<Begasus>
I got konqueror fixed with that though :D
<nephele>
Monni: well, in this case the env variable tells it to load a different UI scheme from a different file, so it should have ample time to read config ;)
<nephele>
in theory anyhow
<nephele>
Ideally it should, for the port, just pick up colors from the application kit
<Begasus>
in this case it's not really a Qt thing
<Begasus>
nephele, for the latest kate and the likes, I can patch them using system colors
<nephele>
well, kirigami frameworks based should ideally use system colors by default
<Monni>
nephele: Even if the command line tells it different path for configuration file, with some GUI libraries the skin is loaded from shared library, so it is loaded even before it hits main() function...
<Begasus>
even the icon themes, upstream added a function to disable it :)
<nephele>
even if that is KDE specific
<Begasus>
those are app specific
<Begasus>
for kirigami it's the rendering that is the issue
<Peppersawce>
Just made a pr about libxml++ btw
<nephele>
Monni: I am quite happy with the app_server loading the "skin" instead on Haiku :)
<Monni>
The way Haiku does some things is a lot better than the Linux/BSD way... With Windows, it's batshit in the clock tower as most libaries just disable the normal windowed rendering and use full screen rendering...
<Begasus>
will compare with what I got here Peppersawce (but not today) :)
<Peppersawce>
That's fine, I'm just putting it out there so I don't forget :)
<Begasus>
+1
<Begasus>
err ... can't share those latest KDE apps here, my KF6 is already on 6.6.0 :P
<nephele>
KDE Haiku
<nephele>
from begasus enterprises
<Peppersawce>
There's things I like about Haiku and things I don't like about Haiku
<Peppersawce>
And often enough they're the same thing
<Monni>
It's like running Gnome apps on KDE under Linux or BSD... Mixing things is the future...
<Begasus>
well, having Tokodon around did some good in Haiku advertising :D
<Peppersawce>
I like that every text file I open with Pe remembers its window settings
<Peppersawce>
I dislike how every tracker window remembers a specific setting for each folder
<Begasus>
can be annoying too Peppersawce :)
<bjorkintosh>
Peppersawce: can't you turn it off?
<Peppersawce>
How can I set icon view globally, for instance?
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<Peppersawce>
Yeah, I'd like to turn off the tracker part :)
<nephele>
no turning it off. But default View type may be something to implement
<Peppersawce>
yes pls
<Monni>
Gotta throw all ideas to bug tracker... Then it's easier to see if some idea has widespread consensus...
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<Monni>
Like I tend to see, something is a feature as soon as it is documented.... As such most of the things on bug trackers should be "enhancement" instead of "bug" ;)
<nephele>
yep. If it's not on the bug tracker it won't be done ;)
<Monni>
Reminds me, I need to add EVFILT_TIMER to bug tracker ;)
<nephele>
always nice to see a "known issue for years" on the forum with no ticket to show, it's like known by whom, nobody told us xD
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<nephele>
bah, matrix is so complicated
<Peppersawce>
I'm sure default view type is up there
<nephele>
n0toose opens a chat, can't read it because e2ee. and no way to indicate i don't support e2ee, or to turn it off
<Peppersawce>
when it comes to "known issue for years"
<nephele>
dunno. I've never checked
<nephele>
Begasus: there is only breeze_icons
<nephele>
i don't see any themes
<Begasus>
the plasma breeze package isn't in the repo :)
<Begasus>
it comes with a configuration tool that's pretty useless on Haiku
<nephele>
uhh
<nephele>
so i have to hunt on the internet to get colors? .-.
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<waddlesplash>
bbjimmy: I have a pretty good idea of how to fix that
<waddlesplash>
but it will have to wait for next week
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<HaikuUser>
moin
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<melmak>
auf meinem thingpad crashed das haiku
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<Monni>
If it doesn't crash, there is something seriously wrong with it... I haven't had KDL in 16 years, but it gets stuck a lot...
<Anarchos>
Monni i have kdl from time to time
<Anarchos>
and some bfs errors too, recently :/
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<Monni>
Haiku doesn't support most hardware on this PC, so it doesn't even try to load the drivers... With my old PC, it did support most of the hardware, so I got a lot of KDLs as things were quite unfinished back then...
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<Monni>
Anyways, just saying that it crashes isn't really helpful, and as IRC doesn't allow posting screenshots, just links to files, only way to know more is wait for user to upload the screenshot and post a link to it...
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<Peppersawce>
for an app version, like, "1.0.0, Beta/0", that last number, does it have to be a number or can it be anything?
<Peppersawce>
"internal"
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<dovsienko>
depends on the convention, some projects are better at versioning than othes
<Peppersawce>
sure
<Peppersawce>
I mean, does Haiku care? Does it enforce that it has to be numbers?
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<dovsienko>
typically it has to be something that involves comparable versions
<dovsienko>
that's why "codenames", which many people try to push down everyone's throat, is not a good thing from a professional software engineering point of view
<Peppersawce>
Oh yeah, on that front it must be quite the issue
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<Peppersawce>
I was just wondering if I could slap "sf" for sourceforge next to the app info somewhere
<Peppersawce>
#include <memory> is making a build fail, I think I saw the solution a couple of days ago but I forgot
<dovsienko>
so long as developers manage to produce comparable versions for a particular piece of software, package management systems can tell that one package is newer than the other and do (or not do) a package update
<Anarchos>
Do we have OCR on PDF within haiku ?
<dovsienko>
so a good version convention is something that works well for both computers and humans
<Peppersawce>
agreed
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<dovsienko>
if you do not know where to start, semver.org provides some useful advice
<dovsienko>
so in short, if some software uses unreasonable versioning scheme, it will be more difficult to package it generally and for Haiku in particular, so new versions will not become available easily
<dovsienko>
which would be a self-induced problem that is easy to avoid in the first place
<dovsienko>
(for the software developers, that is)
<dovsienko>
Peppersawce: how SF is relevant to the version?
<Peppersawce>
it's the latest commit to a sourceforge repository for a project
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<dovsienko>
for repository snapshots usually packagers use something similar to the output of "git describe"
<dovsienko>
(assuming there is a sensible tag in earlier history)
<Peppersawce>
It doesn't build yet so it's a problem for way later down the road
<Monni>
How many commits since last tag... just to avoid using actual commit hash as it's long and hexadecimal...
<Peppersawce>
latest version would be 0.97.02 but it was windows only
<Peppersawce>
and from a separate branch
<Peppersawce>
so... *shrugs*
<dovsienko>
maybe publish a new version properly and use that as a stable point of reference
<Monni>
That would be ideal...
<Peppersawce>
there's a fork with a bunch of new releases
<Peppersawce>
but I can't even get to run cmake on the thing
<Peppersawce>
(following the dude's instructions)
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<dovsienko>
maybe report that as a bug and let him fix it?
<Peppersawce>
"new", latest is a couple of months older than the one I'm trying to compile now
<Monni>
Sometimes it's best to just ignore forks and just merge useful commits/patches...
<Peppersawce>
having my own fun with this kind of thing ngl
<Monni>
I'm using quite old versions of dependencies just because newer ones would most likely need even more patching to get even to compile on Haiku...
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<dovsienko>
I would advise to decide where the upstream is, then if the upstream is broken, raise that with the people responsible for it so they can fix it
<dovsienko>
then make sure you can build and use the software locally without making it a package, then ideally wait for the next release that just works out of the box, then package it
<dovsienko>
the classic approach to making a would be using a published tarball and having a list of patches to apply if necessary
<dovsienko>
"making a package"
<dovsienko>
this way, if the package verifies integrity of the tarball (hash digest, ideally a signature) the process would be reproducible and if something breaks all the files that lead to the failure are in the source package
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<HaikuUser>
hello
<dovsienko>
otherwise (if you record only the location of a repository and a tag/branch) the remote source can disappear and nobody would know what source was used to build the binary package
<erysdren>
hello HaikuUser
<dovsienko>
lazy solution => space for problems in future
<Peppersawce>
I get what you're saying
<Peppersawce>
But on the other hand the dev might just not care anymore
<Peppersawce>
Last commit is from 12/2022
<dovsienko>
meticulous solution => reproducible builds and accountability
<Monni>
I've had devs resume working on a repository after even 7 years of absence...
<dovsienko>
Peppersawce: you didn't hire him to do the job, right? ask if the developer still around and say thank you
<Peppersawce>
Hahahaha right, you're right
<Monni>
A lot of Linux distributions and FreeBSD moved from zlib to zlib-ng and then Mark Adler resumed work on zlib...
<dovsienko>
if the developer is gone, roll your sleeves up and prepare the bug fixes
<Peppersawce>
sad part is, this version is actually building fine but the other one is definitely active
<Monni>
Some maintainers are basically just script kiddies... No real incentive keeping things in working order...
<dovsienko>
Monni: truth be told, some of those Linux distributions were busy counting millions of profit from the business, they forgot open source developers have bills to pay
<Monni>
I've worked on zlib, zlib-ng, .NET Core 9.0 lately... so quite different type of teams/maintainers...
<erysdren>
i hope nobody ever relies on my crap code for something important, i'd consider that a personal failing for both of us
<dovsienko>
erysdren: put that in the package description :-P
<Monni>
erysden: Some of my crap code was borrowed from same people I originally borrowed the code from ;)
<erysdren>
dovsienko: will do :D
<Monni>
It's always fun when upstream merges something without even asking or opening pull request...
<erysdren>
luckily i think load-bearing software polygon rasterizers and crap like that are rare....
<Monni>
I wrote a code that basically tries every possible cryptographic key to see which one was the one originally used... So iterating over UINT64_MAX 8 times in a nested loop...
<erysdren>
jeez
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<Monni>
Gotta love running that code with 64-bit core Xeon and comparing the result with 6-core i5 I currently have...
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<Peppersawce>
@dovsienko if you were curious, turns out Haiku doesn't accept letters in that field
<dovsienko>
which particular field?
<Peppersawce>
The last app field
<Peppersawce>
"internal"
<Peppersawce>
app version
<dovsienko>
where is that exactly?
<Peppersawce>
0.96.4, Final/0
<Peppersawce>
That last 0
<Peppersawce>
In the bin's mime types
<dovsienko>
do you mean the SYS:PACKAGE attribute or something related?
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<dovsienko>
(I do not know what you are doing, but using a "version" like that would create unnecessary problems everywhere, hence the advice above)
<Peppersawce>
lmao fair
<Peppersawce>
I'll drop it anyway, it's too much hassle for basically nothing
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<Peppersawce>
I'll drop it anyway, it's too much hassle for basically nothing
<Peppersawce>
ah, wrong window
<dovsienko>
copy that
<Peppersawce>
heh
<Peppersawce>
well, now that I've build the app, this version from 2022 has the same version number as the one released in 2016
<Peppersawce>
convenient
<Peppersawce>
Like, in the main screen
<Monni>
Version numbers in the end don't tell much... it's the build number that makes the difference...
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<Peppersawce>
yeah but as a user I just had a dialog pop up saying that my save was too old because it was made with a different version
<Monni>
Like Windows 11 is still version 10.x.y
<Peppersawce>
And the version number that's apparently too old is shown to be the same as the one in the corner
<Peppersawce>
And 10 is 8.1
<Peppersawce>
and 7 is Vista
<Peppersawce>
Ah, you mean the internal numbers, right, right
<Monni>
Still I can't run an application compiled for Windows 7 in Windows 11... Too much has changed...
<Peppersawce>
Isn't that the whole point of windows tho
<Monni>
I could run the same app in older builds of Windows 10...
<Peppersawce>
Ah, 11, right, haven't touched that one yet
<Peppersawce>
heard it's a bomb
<Monni>
Early versions of Windows 11 had data corruption issues and few other bad things.... Later ones have fixed some bad issues, but added new ones too...
<Peppersawce>
Wasn't a lot of the effort put into making the ui more full of ads or something?
<Monni>
Like recent versions don't allow dual-booting Windows and few other operating systems...
<Peppersawce>
You call them issues
<Peppersawce>
pretty sure microsoft doesn't mind
<Monni>
I've worked with Microsoft since 1998.... They know when I'm pissed off already...
<Monni>
I'm pretty much the reason why Microsoft released ARM64 version of Windows...
<Peppersawce>
lol that's neat
<Monni>
I opened so many bug reports that eventually other people started commenting on them... Back then they had only 32-bit ARM release of Windows that was far from developer friendly...
<Monni>
When they added code I wrote to .NET Core 9.0, they complained that it didn't work with ARMv6.... But their own code didn't work on ARMv8 that I was using... so we were even...
<Monni>
ARMv7 is still the newest they support for 32-bit ARM as of today...
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<Peppersawce>
they lost the ARMs race
<Peppersawce>
it's all Android
<Monni>
Apple made it really expensive to develop anything for mobile devices... Android has shitty API, but some developers don't' care as they only use Java or JavaScript...
<Monni>
Quite large number of Android applications actually run inside browser stub that just loads stuff from internet... The downside is that those kind of "applications" use a lot of memory and storage compared to applications written in C++ or C...
<phschafft>
which is only half the story.
<phschafft>
Monni: the same is true for most applications on most platforms ;)
<Monni>
I've seen increased number of browser stubs on even Windows...
<Monni>
It's either Python or JavaScript nowadays... No more C++...
<phschafft>
modern browsers are incredible good at running javascript.
<phschafft>
plus they provide some level of sandboxing.
<Monni>
What's really scary is that some Windows drivers actually depend on .NET Core or .NET Framework....
<phschafft>
given that the market was forcefully grown we now have a lot of bad developers. we used to have a lot of them back since the beginning. but now we just run everything on computers.
<phschafft>
it's good they have some sandboxing between them and the system.
<Monni>
Sandboxing is good when it works, but browser extensions leaking data or cookie stealing is still quite common...
<Monni>
JavaScript having access to clipboard is one of the worst security flaws in modern browsers...
<phschafft>
it is still way better than giving them full access.
<Monni>
I personally think it should have been even more restricted access from the start of implementing sandboxing...
<Monni>
LocalStorage might be useful, but nothing stopped anyone from accessing data stored by other tabs or extensions with different "domain"...
<phschafft>
then feel free to get your requests into the upcomming standards.
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<Monni>
I'm not big fan of so-called standards.... But I work with some Chromium developers....
<phschafft>
so basically you're only here to rant?
<erysdren>
oooo
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<Monni>
I've built enough stuff already... Now I just need to wait until some missing stuff gets done, then I can resume building...
<Monni>
phschafft: Ranting is just letting people know what other people have done wrong, so they can do things better...
<phschafft>
no, that is writing tickets. but I must say, some people confuse the two *looking at some of the tickets he got over the years*
<Monni>
Most of us hate using Windows or Linux, but can't use Haiku 24/7 because it's not quite ready for that even after over 10 years of development...
<erysdren>
try 20 years
<Monni>
phschafft: I have written several tickets, most of them are still open...
<Monni>
erysdren: I've used Haiku for about 16 years now...
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<Skipp_OSX>
wow a long time
<coolcoder613>
nielx[m]: On the forum, we have a Haiku-PyAPI discussion thread PM, and it was just closed for being 500 messages long
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