<sen>
I’ve been looking at https://hardware.besly.de/index.php?systeme=list and assume that’s a reasonable place? Using Haiku in a VM so far but I think it’s time to migrate to hardware :) This one list seems to be the closest I could find doing various Reddit searches and such looking for a HCL type thing.
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<sen>
Huh neat, I put a B5 USB stick in my Toughbook CF-19 expecting brokenness, but all the basics other than sound (including the touchscreen) work fine out of the box!
<augiedoggie_>
audio might be fixed by the opensound package depending on the chipset
<augiedoggie_>
*by installing the*
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<sen>
Yep, it's honestly not a machine I like using as a general purpose machine since the keyboard is super tiny and the resistive trackpad is frustrating to use, so it won't be a main Haiku machine for me, I was just curious how well it would work. I'll probably see if opensound works so I can at least add it to the hardware list with some notes though, since it works better than I figured it might :)
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<dovsienko>
hello folks. who is the sysadmin of Gerrit?
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<nielx[m]>
What did you break dovsienko
<dovsienko>
nielx[m]: nothing because it was already broken
<nielx[m]>
what is your question
<dovsienko>
specifically, when trying to register using an e-mail, the system sends a verification e-mail, but some users (such as myself) never receive it because the e-mail is sent from no-reply@sso.haiku-os.org, which is not a valid sender address
<dovsienko>
so when the receiver's mail server is configured to verify the sender, it rejects the verification e-mail
<dovsienko>
I suggest to make no-reply@sso.haiku-os.org a valid recipient and to route its messages to /dev/null
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<nielx[m]>
Please raise a ticket on dev.haiku-os.org with those notes and we'll look into that. Did you manage to create an account or do you need individual support for that?
<dovsienko>
will do. before it is fixed, I would like my account verified by other means so I can submit a bug fix
<Begasus>
k, why do we have "cmd:[" for coreutils? what does it even do?
<x512[m]>
Begasus: "[" is a command line application.
<jmairboeck>
it is an alias for test, mostly used in if statements in shell scripts (also in recipes)
<dovsienko>
it is an alias for "test", which was the nominal name for it in really old Unixes and sometimes still is in modern misconfigured Linux containers
<dovsienko>
"if [ 'a' = 'b' ]; then" is supposed to be equivalent to "if test 'a' = 'b'; then"
<Begasus>
just find it weird sitting in my $binDir :)
<dovsienko>
which may be not the case for shells that make test a builtin with a slightly different implementation, but forget to make "[" a builtin (or the other way around)
<dovsienko>
Begasus: no, that's alright and has been this way for a long time
<Begasus>
yeah, seen it for a long time, just thought I'd ask about it before tryiing to nuke it :D
<Begasus>
I tend to find things that are a bit "off" and could use some fixing
<jmairboeck>
you would get a policy warning from haikuporter then, I think :)
<jmairboeck>
because coreutils does provide cmd:[
<Begasus>
not if I did a "rm -f $binDir/[" :p
<Begasus>
yeah, checked the recipe for that :)
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<x512[m]>
Why remove "["?
<Begasus>
I'm not x512[m], just was wondering about it :)
<x512[m]>
I think that altering installed content is bad practice in general.
<Begasus>
depends ... I've seen manpages end up in wrong paths etc ...
<Begasus>
documentation in base packages that should/could go to devel or doc package
<dovsienko>
Begasus: here is a very good free book on the subject, as use it as reference even for non-bash shells: https://tldp.org/LDP/abs/abs-guide.pdf
<dovsienko>
s/as use/I use/
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<phschafft>
dovsienko: while you're at wondering, consider : is an alias to true, and true and false are programs ;)
<Begasus>
thanks dovsienko, saved :)
<dovsienko>
phschafft: not quite, on both Linux and Haiku ":", true and false are shell builtins in bash, /bin/true and /bin/false exist (possibly due to a POSIX requirement), but /bin/: does not exist
<phschafft>
yes.
<phschafft>
it's the same basic situation as with [, but in this case : is not in the file system.
<phschafft>
and as for [ and test bash has buildins.
<phschafft>
but bash has a lot of buildins for stuff that wouldn't really require them. think about time and printf for example.
<dovsienko>
on this note, when I wrote "[" is an alias, that was not quite right: in bash it is a builtin, as well as "test", so there is no shell alias strictly speaking
<dovsienko>
phschafft: I do not know why it has builtins that are not strictly necessary, perhaps it made sense at the time due to performance reasons
<dovsienko>
some of the scripts I wrote were complex enough to take many seconds to execute so I had to optimise them
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<phschafft>
I think sometimes it's for performance, sometimes it's because people think they can do better.
<phschafft>
(which they sametimes can, sometimes not)
<dovsienko>
so using a 20 years old bash and 20 years old hardware could allow to feel the motivation to optimise some things
<phschafft>
having stuff like booleans as buildins surely sounds like simple(!) buildins which might really speed stuff up.
<dovsienko>
while true; do ...
<phschafft>
similar for test.
<sen>
yep, back when Linux could be practically run off a pair of floppies it really made sense to build “test” in :)
<phschafft>
today you just need bigger floppies! *hands sen an 8" floppy*
<Begasus>
too bad floppy's are not that supported anymore in Haiku :P
* Begasus
doesn't even have a slot for it :)
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<sen>
phschafft: haha :) working on fixing an 8” drive at the moment actually!
<phschafft>
ha!
<phschafft>
I never had one myself.
<phschafft>
bit I have a working PD drive.
<phschafft>
way later, but I guess even more exotic.
<sen>
phschafft: ooo neat! never seen one of those I don’t think.
<phschafft>
:)
<phschafft>
used them a lot back in the day.
<phschafft>
(for everyone who don't know them: the size of a CD (physical and storage), but full random access, both per-block read/write, virtually unlimited write cycles; kind of a HDD in the shape of a CD)
<sen>
like DVD-RAM but for CD it sounds like?
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<dovsienko>
never heard of those
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<dovsienko>
I've seen iomega zip disks on a few occasions though
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<dovsienko>
x512[m]: if it has the Clock demo, could you run it and confirm whether bug 19083 stands there, and if it does, which BeOS version it is? I am finishing a commit message for the bug fix and would like to include a reference
<dovsienko>
the easiest way is to run Magnifier and to see if the seconds hand is pixel-perfect vertical at 12 and pixel-perfect horizontal at 3
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<san2ban>
hi all..on the website, under 'source activity', I saw that a link fo adding wonderbrush for all architectures is there. I have not manually installed wonder brush. I thought after updating now, it will be installed on my system automatically...after updating, i do not find wonderbrush installed
<dovsienko>
apparently, some people sell Haiku USB drives for $10-20 on ebay
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<sen>
Yay, first tiny development task on Haiku done, now vmware-addons supports my laptop's resolution so I'm not stuck in 4x3 anymore (and in the process now I vaguely understand how haikuporter and stuff work)
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<waddlesplash>
san2ban: it won't, this is just the default package set for new installs.
<waddlesplash>
you need to install it manually on an existing install
<waddlesplash>
(and it won't be included on new installs just yet anyway)
<san2ban>
waddlesplash; thanks...think i am becoming dumb...
<waddlesplash>
sen: ideally vmware-addons would support custom video modes
<waddlesplash>
rather than needing to be patched
<waddlesplash>
personally I don't use the vmware video driver because it doesn't support screen refresh in KDL
<waddlesplash>
which is rather important if you're a kernel developer :P
<botifico>
[haiku/website] infrastation 03a6f7b - Use correct mount point in UEFI Install Guide.
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<sen>
waddlesplash: yeah, hardcoded modes definitely aren't ideal but at least now my development environment is comfortable to use so I can hack on it further :)
<ilzu[m]>
<x512[m]> "Yes, using emulator made by @..." <- x512: Wow, is that available anywhere? I'd like to try.
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] cd333360b372 - Clock: Point the hands precisely.
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<waddlesplash>
dovsienko: yes, it appears that code is still unchanged from the sample one
<waddlesplash>
just figured I'd mention it
<dovsienko>
so anyway, whilst I was picking on other people mistakes, I've pushed a wrong branch and configured the commit-msg hook in a wrong repository, now trying to get it right
<waddlesplash>
doesn't matter, I already merged it :)
<waddlesplash>
I just used the Gerrit Rebase command to switch it to master
<dovsienko>
thank you
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<dovsienko>
there is a similar imperfection in Chart and possibly other code
<dovsienko>
however, this bug fix leads me to an idea about the triple fault and SSH socket problems
<waddlesplash>
... how is that lol
<dovsienko>
what if somewhere in the memory management code there is a place that needs to get a power of 2 exactly, but due to a human error there is an off-by-one error that only triggers when a particular variable occurs to be set to a particular value?
<dovsienko>
e.g. people often get 255/256, 65536/65536 wrong
<waddlesplash>
I doubt that is anything to do with the SSH socket problems
<waddlesplash>
I also doubt this is the cause of the triple faults. Seeing as no other machines have this problem besides a few generations of AMD
<dovsienko>
hmm
<dovsienko>
so, let's say if something somewhere needs to allocate exactly 4096 bytes (or a multiple thereof), but the allocator tests the size for 4095, or some such
<dovsienko>
or rather <= 4095
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<dovsienko>
anyway, I wanted to mention it because it would be one way to explain the random and rare occurrence of these problems and in case it reminds you of something in the code you know
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<Begasus>
added patch to konqueror here :)
<Begasus>
one thing still annoying, can't keep passwords :P
<waddlesplash>
dovsienko: malloc(4095) in the kernel will give you a 4096 byte usable size
<waddlesplash>
because the allocator below 2*4096 uses blocks of various multiples
<x512[m]>
dovsienko: Clock app also have a bug that arrows are not set during first second of operation.
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] eb26bd6c477f - kernel/vm: Fix copy/paste bug in vm_cache_acquire_locked_page_cache.
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] a0658fbc88ed - kernel/vm: Consolidate logic in vm_cache_acquire_locked_page_cache.
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] caaee6cc6e9d - kernel/fs: Remove unused list_link field from advisory_lock.
<cocobean>
Browsers are such a treat on Haiku.
<cocobean>
Been my 4K streaming movie player for quite some time.
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<hsp>
Is there any indication of when Firefox will appear in the ports?
<waddlesplash>
no
<waddlesplash>
because the port isn't stable yet, it doesn't work properly and crashes a lot
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<hsp>
:)
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<cocobean>
Chrome is used moreso on macOS/Win nowadays... suprisingly so after years of Firefox/Mozilla.
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<dovsienko>
x512[m]: that's the bug OscarL fixed a month ago, it seems from the commit log
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<dovsienko>
by the way, I used "g++ *.cp -lbe -llocalestub -o myclock" to test the bug fix, and had to modify the BResource usage to read from a local file. is there a more straightforward way to compile one application without compiling the entire source tree?
<dovsienko>
"*.cpp", that is. in the "src/apps/clock" directory of the haiku repository
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<Begasus>
closiing down here
<Begasus>
cu peeps
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<nephele>
jmairboeck: you there?
<jmairboeck>
yes
<jmairboeck>
nephele: what do you need?
<nephele>
iirc you did some stuff to the git port?
<nephele>
I'm having trouble recently that all it's messages are in German, while my system is setup in Enligsh (only formatting is german)
<jmairboeck>
I did the last update and split the perl parts into a separate package, but I'm not really an expert
<dovsienko>
"it broke itself"
<nephele>
well, i don't have a github so i figured i might ask :)
<jmairboeck>
I have seen that issue at haikuports
<jmairboeck>
but I didn't really look into it
<nephele>
I guess i could check if i have an older version somewhere? It's very distracting anyhow. I've never used it in german and mostly have no clue what it wants to tell me because of that
<nephele>
the env vars in the terminal appear configured correctly :)
<jmairboeck>
since when is it broken?
<nephele>
Not sure. a bit before beta5 already?
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<nephele>
a thing like git bisect for packages would be need. stuff them in a chroot and observe the behaviour :D
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<nephele>
I have older git versions in my packages, namely 2.43; 2.42; 2.37
<nephele>
If you want I can install one of those to see if the problem still occurs
<nephele>
If it still occurs it may be that LC_TYPE -> LC_CTYPE fix, though i somehow doubt that
<OscarL>
sorry, nebulabc_, I meant to tag nephele instead :-)
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<OscarL>
dovsienko: re: "compiling the entire Haiku tree vs only one app"... "jam -q -jN Clock" should only compile what's needed for that target app (first time it *will* compile all its depedencies, though)
<OscarL>
thus why for really small stuff, I had sometimes just created a Makefile (using makefile-engine) :-)
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<nephele>
OscarL: huh? why LC_TIME?
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<dovsienko>
OscarL: thank you, I have updated my notes. this jam thing would be a bit easier to use if it had a man page
<OscarL>
nephele: no idea, but that's what I've found while testing to see which one of the LC_* vars triggered the issue.
<OscarL>
dovsienko: yeah... I have no real idea of how to use Jam either, except the tiny bits I picked along the way.
<OscarL>
dovsienko: for some targets that share names... you might need to be more specific... like: jam -q -jN "<apps>Clock"
<OscarL>
or: jam -q -jN "<driver>poke"
<OscarL>
nephele: FWIW... I think the problem was more the move to beta5 than some git update (will try to find a working beta4 install, and try newest git package to confirm).
<OscarL>
nephele: to be specific... `LC_TIME=es git` <<< that makes git speak Spanish, even if all the other vars are en_US.UTF-8, no idea why.
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<nephele>
OscarL: well, i only know that LC_TYPE was removed and LC_CTYPE was added
<nephele>
since that was just a spelling mistake, but other than that i don't think much was changed there?
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<sen>
Haiku really confuses my brain into thinking I’m on a computer from 2000 somehow, a couple times today I’ve gone “oops, <task> is going to need modern {TLS, SSH, significant CPU, JavaScript, etc.}, need to switch back to my PC”.
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<coolcoder613>
;)
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<FreeFull>
Well, Haiku runs perfectly fine on computers from 2000
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<sen>
heh, true, but unlike my MacOS 7/8/9 machines, it’ll do the modern stuff too :)
<mmu_man>
Nice stream from Tech Ambrosia
<mmu_man>
showed her ProcessController :)
<OscarL>
mmu_man: hope that bulldozer is not one of the affected by the sudden triple-faults.
<OscarL>
jeez... work-dir for cmake-3.30.3 has 47.464 files. No wonder unpacking and git-init was so slow.
* OscarL
adds cmake to the "avoid touching it, if possible" list of recipes.