<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] a52800c6db69 - Tracker: Properly check fOwning before deleting items in RemoveItem.
<waddlesplash>
that should do it
<waddlesplash>
but my rebuild hasn't finished here yet
<waddlesplash>
yeah that seems to fix
<Skipp_OSX>
yep that fixes it
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<Skipp_OSX>
so I fixed this bug <= https://0x0.st/8P8I.png and in a separate commit made add-ons not appear in Query window
<augiedoggie>
seems like they should be available in a query window too
<Skipp_OSX>
anything useful you'd miss?
<augiedoggie>
why should it be different from a regular window?
<Skipp_OSX>
query windows don't represent a single folder but are an aggregate of many folders so anything that works on a folder like TrackGit doesn't apply
<augiedoggie>
but they're still available in the right click menu?
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: morning! "pkgman search -r libpython3.9" only shows "cegui" now. NOICE! Thanks for the help.
<Skipp_OSX>
no, not anywhere in query window
<augiedoggie>
ok, because right now i can see them in the context menu of a query window
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: cegui only needed by its _devel package... wonder if we could/should just blindly move it to 3.10 and let the builders handle it :-D
<Begasus[m]>
will give it a look, got sidetracked ... yet again :)
<Begasus[m]>
upstream CudaText poked about a new release for it :)
<OscarL>
heh, at least they remember us :-D
<Begasus[m]>
also mentioned in REQUIRES
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<Begasus[m]>
error: /sources/cegui-0.8.7/cegui/src/XMLParserModules/Libxml2/XMLParser.cpp:102:40: error: invalid conversion from 'const xmlError*' {aka 'const _xmlError*'} to 'xmlError*' {aka '_xmlError*'} [-fpermissive]
<Begasus[m]>
(not related to python)
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: FWIW, I ran "readelf -d *.so | grep NEEDED | grep python" on the .so from the cegui package (download it only it, not installed to avoid lots of deps :D). No mention of python there at least.
<Begasus[m]>
yeah, build didn't error with them commented out (at least not for missing python) :)
<OscarL>
"download_hpkg cegui" <<< used that to get the 64 bits one to check if it actually NEEDED libpython.
<Begasus[m]>
let's see what buildmasters do :)
* OscarL
updates haikuports tree in the meantime.
<OscarL>
thanks.
<draKon>
greetings haiku ops
<Begasus[m]>
np :)
<Begasus[m]>
hi draKon
<draKon>
:)
<OscarL>
\o/
<draKon>
yo Begasus[m]
<Begasus[m]>
there, also re-alligned codeberg :)
<draKon>
my sites coming slowly along :) im proud of what ive achieved
<draKon>
its soooo old 90's webnb
<draKon>
web**
<OscarL>
I'm glad that Python 3.12 build went OK for both 32 and 64 bits builder (even with forcefully using $jobArgs by accident)
<draKon>
its a links depot :)
<draKon>
i hope to link haiku apps
<draKon>
and also got a link to frogfind and 3 other alternate search bars on main page, but its slow update
<Begasus[m]>
mmu_man: looking at kicad also here, stupid thing doesn't want to detect cairo atm :)
<draKon>
frogfind is for vintage/older machines search directory
<Begasus[m]>
one down :)
<Begasus[m]>
stupid hardcoded search paths ...
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<Begasus[m]>
whoot: wxPython/Phoenix does not appear to be installed on the system
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<Begasus[m]>
stupid wxwidgets ...
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<nephele_xmpp>
this droneDB anti-spam database is really getting on my nerves. They continously blacklist random ipv4 adresses because at some point someone had a router there that was vulnerable. So now i get banned by oftc on random days
<nekobot>
• csaavedra (ff0b9cdf): [SOUP] Tentative build fix for Debian stable after 289374@main…
<nekobot>
• philn (fecc89c9): [SPIEL] Fix PlatformSpeechSynthesizerSpiel build after 289374@main…
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<nephele_xmpp>
PulkoMandy: Do you have any clue where ~/config/settings/WebPositive/LoaderPages/Welcome is located in the source tree? I can't find it in haiku or haikuwebkits sources
<PulkoMandy>
isn't it part of the userguide?
<nephele_xmpp>
I don't know? I'm talking about the 100ish line fallback page that will try online; offline; and otherwise give you a "your package isn't installed" error
<nephele_xmpp>
There is a LoaderPage for BeBook QuickTour UserGuide and Welcome, presumeably for default bookmarks? These seem also different to the default shell scripts for userguide and bebook which *also* exist on the desktop
<PulkoMandy>
for some reason this is packaged in a zip file instead of being built from rdef files
<PulkoMandy>
it used to be hosted elsewhere (on haiku-files.org) and included as a 3rd party optionalpackage, when haiku-files closed the .zip was just moved to inside Haiku sources
<PulkoMandy>
we should probably change that, it may be one of the last few things that require us to build unzip on the host during the haiku build
<nephele_xmpp>
No wonder I didn't find it...
<nephele_xmpp>
Sure, unzip and check it in. But that leaves the Icons. So I have to move those from attributes to rdef files right? and then teach the build how to build this?
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<nephele_xmpp>
or maybe alternatively teach WebPositive how to create these as default settings when it's settings are gone?
<nephele_xmpp>
PulkoMandy: It seems apart from this there is only one firmware package also in a zip file
<nephele_xmpp>
The commit adding that is from 2010, it doesn't give any specific explanation why this is in a zip file. So can probably be unpacked aswell
<PulkoMandy>
Yes for the bookmarks, it should be rdef files and maybe a custom jam rule
<nephele_xmpp>
should the html files itself be in a rdef or can that stay as a "plain" file?
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<nephele_xmpp>
Have any example Jam file that does something similar? I'm still not really sure how Jam works... :)
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<PulkoMandy>
The html file is just an html file
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<PulkoMandy>
PrepareScriptWithIcon in src/data/bin/Jamfile seems similar to what's needed
<PulkoMandy>
(it sets up the quick tour and userguide icons on the desktop)
<nephele>
heh, no flag to listattr to output in rdef format... missed oportunity
<PulkoMandy>
rdef is for resources, not attributes
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<PulkoMandy>
so you need resattr if you need to convert between attributes and resources
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<nephele>
Where is the semantic difference? i still need to add it to an rdef file to add it as attributes, no?
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<PulkoMandy>
no
<PulkoMandy>
rdef is for resources
<PulkoMandy>
some resources (mainly icons) can be copied to attributes for speed of access by tracker
<PulkoMandy>
but resources can be used for many other things (sounds, pictures, translations, ...)
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* Begasus[m]
mumbles ... wxwidgets can be build with cmake also ..
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<nephele>
I understand that. In my case however I need to add META:Url for the bookmarks, which do not belong in ressources, only attributes. my understanding is that i need to add this to a rdef file in the build to get there
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<nephele>
Is there another "more correct" way?
<PulkoMandy>
there is AddFileDataAttribute to create attributes directly (what you need here)
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<PulkoMandy>
strictly speaking, rdef files are not even required for resources. You could add resources directly from a binary file as well
<PulkoMandy>
it's just convenient to have them stored as text and not binary format in Git, so rdef is used, but for big resources you don't want to do that. For example in Renga, some png files are stored straight from the png file to a resource
<PulkoMandy>
you can set attributes using the addattr command, either from a string or from a data file (the entire file is copied into an attribute)
<nephele>
Yeah, okay. But hardcoding all attributes (for the bookmarks) in the jamfile seems a bit wierd to me
<PulkoMandy>
how is that different from hardcoding them in another file?
<nephele>
layer of abstraction, the file can sit in the file structure where you expect the "real" file to later appear
<PulkoMandy>
the Jamfile can (and should) be in that same place, right?
<nephele>
Not neccesarily, we have bookmark folders. Would you expect it to be like bookmarks/Jam bookmarks/folder1/Jam then?
<nephele>
with bookmarks/folder1/Jam then doing the bookmarks for that folder?
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<PulkoMandy>
no, but I woudn't do that with attribute files either, that's many useless directories
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<nephele>
well, this is the format we get on disk later :)
<nephele>
One advantage of having some kind of binary file for this (or a rdef) would be that this data can be stored in webpositive so it can create the bookmark settings from memory when asked, but not sure how to go about that yet
<PulkoMandy>
let's remove the .zip file first. And yes, in that case it makes sense that Web+ would have the same data as resources
<nephele>
well, I am removing it. But don't want to remove it by deleting the bookmarks. What would your suggestion be on how to proceed now?
<nephele>
just adding the bookmarks in WebPositives Jamfile?
<nephele>
i.e "touch" the empty file with the name, add the attributes
<nephele>
but those bookmarks also have icons too :)
<PulkoMandy>
yes, I would rather do that in a separate Jamfile somewhere in src/data/
<PulkoMandy>
yes, the icon is also an attribute
<nephele>
(three icons in fact...)
<PulkoMandy>
the AddFileDataAttribute is used to create non-ELF files with icon attributes (only ELF files can have resources)
<nephele>
Ah, it seems the other time this is used it takes a .hvif file directly. i think that would be fine
<PulkoMandy>
yes, it takes an hvif file for the icon, or it can take a file with the url for setting the url as well
<nephele>
though then i have to convert this C like array to a hvif, hmmm
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<PulkoMandy>
I don't think we have a tool that can directy take a single file and parse it into multiple attributes (like rdef does for resources)
<nephele>
It needs Meta:title BeOS:type and Meta:url, that would be three files then
<nephele>
or that data inline
<nephele>
I'm going to ignore the BEOS:L:STD_ICON and BEOS:M:STD_ICON
<PulkoMandy>
I think we put the favicon from websites there when Web+ creates bookmarks. I don't remember if we use it for the default ones, do they all have vector icons?
<nephele>
The ones I checked have vector icons
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<nephele>
I think the tracker "someone opened this folder" data also doesn't need to be preserver
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<Begasus[m]>
mmu_man: no luck so far on wxwidgets, even did a build for latest version/releases, and wxgtk
<Begasus[m]>
cmake for wxgtk produces plenty of errors :(
<nephele>
So in Jam the ":" serves as a seperator for arguments, does that mean stuff with spaces does not need to be qouted? how does that work?
<PulkoMandy>
space is the main tokenizer in jam so I'm fairly sure you need escaping in some places
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<PulkoMandy>
so yes, for rule invokation the : is used as a separator and you're fine
<nephele>
I think I'm going to need a bit more help on how to tie this all into the existing jamscripts and targets, so I'll upload my WIP stuff once I have extracted all the icons and the uris into the JamFile
<nephele>
Do i even need to copy the meta:title atribute? the bookmarks bar only shows the file name, and for both Quick Tour and Welcome the title is "Welcome to Haiku!"
<nephele>
Seems this is visible if you manually navigate to tracker and thenn manually enable the Title attribute
<nephele>
I'll atleast change the quicktour title to it's proper title
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<drusatori_alt>
yay, it works :).
<drusatori_alt>
set up the 2 minipc's running haiku and the mac all on a KVM, which is no big deal. except, I prefer the logitech wireless keyboards
<drusatori_alt>
turns out, for about $15 you can get a logi bolt reciever that is a USB dongle that you can plug into the KVM USB port, pair that with a keyboard & mouse ( potentially camera too, haven't tried that yet )
<drusatori_alt>
and so now, bluetooth wireless keyboard and mouse working under Haiku without the need to build the bluetooth stack out
* drusatori_alt
does a little happy dance :)
<dovsienko>
it is nice when a simple solution exists to a simple problem
<dovsienko>
the last time I used a KVM switch for a home lab was when DB15 VGA and PS/2 peripherals were still common
<dovsienko>
there are more sophisticated toys for data centres, but some of them cost more than a PC
<drusatori_alt>
the new usb/usb-c devices are nice and dirt cheap
<drusatori_alt>
4 port 4k HDMI devices under $100
<drusatori_alt>
this one was like 75.
<waddlesplash>
the Bluetooth stack needs a lot of work yes
<waddlesplash>
but I think it actually is not too far away from supporting HID
<waddlesplash>
because I think HID only needs L2CAP which we do have, and I massively refactored it last year
<drusatori_alt>
it's on my list to dig into once I get the media tek card working in that code
<drusatori_alt>
not that, the. it's a pain working on that machine without working networking.
<drusatori_alt>
lost two weeks to travel for work though, so just now wading back in
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<pol>
My computer have 4gb of RAM. Why I can access only 3gb in Haiku?
<pol>
I thought maybe the 1gb ramdisk is causing it. I have a script in startup for it. But no, after disabling it same situation.
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<pol>
Tried different 2x2gb sticks - still only 3gb visible with About Haiku. BIOS sees all 4gb.
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<pol>
I heard there is some limitation for 32-bit systems. That they will support up to 4gb of ram. But I'm running 64-bit version.
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<pol>
Could this be a ramdisk? I don't think so. I can't see no process allocating memory as the ram disc fills up in the Task Manager.
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<pol>
The files in ramdisk would get corrupted if I exhaust the space in it even tho I delete them from the Thrash. The trimfs command is dropping me to KDL.
<FreeFull>
pol: I am surprised that a 64-bit system wouldn't see the full 4GB. The 4GB does show up if you use linux or such, right?
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<pol>
I have not tried Linux on this PC.
<FreeFull>
Well, whatever the pre-Haiku OS was
<pol>
I will try Linux then, maybe it will have the same problem.
<pol>
There was no pre-Haiku OS on this PC.
<waddlesplash>
you can check the BIOS-derived memory layout in the syslog and see what it is getting
<pol>
I have one other issue. It seems I can't create a shortcut to an application that is launching only via Terminal (musikcube).
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<pol>
I read the syslog but I don't see much besides "allocation is made of reserved memory" and "detected 8 MB of stolen memory".
<pol>
It seems, wherever I call musikcube from a script starting with #!/bin/sh line it is executed as a background process. I can't make it launch in a Terminal window.
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<waddlesplash>
probably a bug in the port
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<dovsienko>
pol: is it because the stdin is not a TTY?
<dovsienko>
some programs don't handle that well, and some do and behave differently on purpose
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<pol>
Probably, I don't know. All I know I can't double click it in Tracker too ro make it run. Same with python3.
<dovsienko>
python3 is not a GUI program, is it?
<dovsienko>
does Tracker know somehow to run it in a terminal? (that's a common flag in Linux desktop environments, cannot remember about Haiku)
<pol>
musikcube is not a GUI program too (?)
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<pol>
I tried calling it explicitly with /boot/system/apps/Terminal /boot/system/bin/python3 and it worked
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<dovsienko>
well, that's pretty much what I mentioned just before
<dovsienko>
if it is an interactive ncurses program, it cannot work without a TTY no matter what the OS
<pol>
Yes I suspected that. I tried this before bu with sh application instead of Terminal. I realized I can find a link to the Terminal from the Leaf menu now.
* dovsienko
is trying to make a Midnight Commander launcher on the desktop...
<dovsienko>
so, the "create link" GUI menu item in Tracker creates a symlink, which obviously does not cause an intermediate terminal when running it
<pol>
I'm using a text file marked as Executable with a first line of #!/bin/sh
<dovsienko>
that does not automatically present an interactive terminal with a TTY either
<dovsienko>
Tracker has to know somehow that a specific runnable item is supposed to be run in a new terminal
<pol>
It does for me, there are two executables in that line /boot/system/apps/Terminal /boot/system/bin/python3 second one is an argument.
<dovsienko>
alright, that works for my mc too
<dovsienko>
so if the first line is the traditional "#!/bin/sh" and the second or the third line is "/system/apps/Terminal mc", that indeed opens an mc session for me
<dovsienko>
because the terminal is a GUI process and does not need a TTY and does create a [pseudo-]TTY and then gives that to the command you specify as its argument
<dovsienko>
in some window managers there's a checkbox of the same effect when the user adds/configures a launcher button
<dovsienko>
but not in Haiku
<dovsienko>
which means you can use the same wrapper for MusikCube, and this is not a bug, but exactly the expected behaviour
<pol>
I'm putting all my shortcuts in Leaf Menu. Here is how to edit it https://old.besly.de/index.html?/menu/search/archiv/pref/sort_menu_haiku_nightly_eng.html
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<dovsienko>
never tried that, I just put frequently-used things on the desktop
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<HaikuUser2>
hello
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<dovsienko>
HaikuUser2: hi
<HaikuUser2>
i have a smaller and a bigger partition, both seems to have haiku installed on it, but when i boot always the small one boots... how can i make the big one boot?
<HaikuUser2>
i launched drivesetup, i can see that the smaller partition is /boot, but i cannot changed it such that the bigger haiku partition should /boot, not this small one
<dovsienko>
well, /boot is not a flag, it is the mount point
<HaikuUser2>
this small partition is only 1.3 gb and almost full... the other one is the rest of this 32gb pendrive, but i cannot see its content, cannot make it the booting partition... any idea?
<HaikuUser2>
small one mounted at /boot indeed, the bigger one at /Haiku1
<dovsienko>
in other words, the actual operating system is on the smaller partition, so if the larger partition does not have its own copy, there is no way of "switching" between the two in the first place
<HaikuUser2>
there is also a fat32 small partition for EFI
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<HaikuUser2>
i think the bigger one also has haiku installed on it... i remember to have installed it on that one
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<HaikuUser2>
but now when i boot it it boots into the small one for some reason
<dovsienko>
if I had this problem, I'd copy all important files off the USB stick and reinstall Haiku from scratch
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<HaikuUser2>
yeah i can do that... i think the problem is that i installed haiku from the same usb, this one... maybe i should re-install it from another usb
<HaikuUser2>
i tried to install it from a ventoy disk but it failed
<dovsienko>
it may be technically possible to redo the setup without reinstalling, but the risk does not seem worth it
<HaikuUser2>
so i dd-d the iso unto this usb and used it to install the system onto itself, onto the bigger partition
<HaikuUser2>
dovsienko yes i see your point...
<HaikuUser2>
problem is, i am running out of spare usb disks and don't want to empty any of them just for this purpose
<dovsienko>
looks like you can make sense of it
<HaikuUser2>
maybe tomorrow i buy an n+1 disk (too many already) just for this purpose
<HaikuUser2>
would be nice if somehow I could change the mount point /boot to the bigger partition
<dovsienko>
well, maybe move some files to a hard drive and you'll have a spare stick. otherwise splash $5 and get one more. this stuff is very affordable nowadays
<Habbie>
i've learned on other channels that 'just do this simple thing' is not always simple for people
<Habbie>
(i have no idea about HaikuUser2, to be clear)
<HaikuUser2>
true, i used to do that before, dd img a drive, then it is free, then dd back maybe i will do that
<HaikuUser2>
yeah the slow usb sticks are cheap, but they are indeed painfully slow
<HaikuUser2>
i wonder if haiku does the same trick as easyos/puppylinux, ie to copy all files into RAM and run from RAM entirely
<dovsienko>
will do for a one-time installer run, will it not?
<HaikuUser2>
that is genius that is why i use easyos primarily nothing beats that thing
<HaikuUser2>
it only uses that painfully slow small 8gb usb drive twice, once when it loads it into RAM (reading is fast), and second time when i shut it down and saves the delta back to it (that takes long but i go to bed and leave it to do it)
<dovsienko>
I have nothing to add to what I wrote already
<HaikuUser2>
easyos is lightening fast even using it from a slow small usb stick, because it is working 100% in RAM... and yet i can run it from a 1 euro cheap old small slow otherwise useless usb stick ;)
<HaikuUser2>
now, if haiku would do the same, would be fantastic
<HaikuUser2>
haiku is on the same level as barry's easyos, in fact perhaps even more ingenious :)
<HaikuUser2>
but now i better try another new install to solve this anomaly with my two partitions
<gordonjcp>
evening
<dovsienko>
HaikuUser2: for 5 euro you can get a Kingston 64GB A1 class microSD card, then the only thing you need to drive it at 80-100MB/s is a quality card reader. works pretty well to boot various OSes in my experience
<HaikuUser2>
okay thanks dovsienko et al for the assistance, i'll be back when i managed to install haiku properly on this usb stick
<HaikuUser2>
dovsienko yes actually i have lots of these microSD cards as well plus a damn fast card reader... but from experience they have never been as fast as a kingstron or sandisk usb stick
<dovsienko>
gordonjcp: hi. robbed a museum again? ;-)
<dovsienko>
HaikuUser2: depends on the class, A2 is the best for random access
<dovsienko>
A1 is not that far either
<HaikuUser2>
dunno haiku, but on linux there is hdparm -t --direct /dev/sda* which tells the read/write speeds and those microSD cards were always in the tens and the usb sticks in the hundreds (Mbit/s)
<gordonjcp>
dovsienko: :-)
<gordonjcp>
dovsienko: nah, just Motorola Centracom Hacking for Fun and Profit
<HaikuUser2>
dovsienko btw thanks for reminding me that i could also use those microSD cards, some of them are idle so i could use one for this purpose just to reinstall, does not matter how fast those are indeed
<HaikuUser2>
sposibo
<HaikuUser2>
now off for awhile cheers every1
<dovsienko>
I tried quite a few options and when something needs to run fast from USB, it is either A2 microSD, or an SSD
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<dovsienko>
HaikuUser2: cheers
<HaikuUser2>
yeah ssds are fast, too... nvme even faster but then the bottleneck is the usb3.x port throughput
<HaikuUser2>
which is about 300+ so an nvme with 9000 is nice but useless if the usb3 port has a max of 300
<HaikuUser2>
off now, brb
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<HaikuUser2>
wow, that was fast... i am back
<HaikuUser2>
the solution was simple... the last time i booted and chose UEFI boot, and then i ended up with the smaller partition labeled as /boot... this time i rebooted and choose the non-UEFI (standard) boot option, and voila: i am back with the bigger partition as /boot
<HaikuUser2>
i wish i understood why it is like that, but oh well... i will just remember that this stick has this (unwanted) feature of "dual boot"
<HaikuUser2>
dovsienko thanks anyway :)
<HaikuUser2>
back to easyos (and to some extent puppy, antiX and bunsenlabs/crunchbang++ etc), they all have an option to boot entirely into RAM and work from there
<HaikuUser2>
haiku, while very impressive, still needs me to keep the booting stick occupying one usb slot (first disadvantage, albeit neglibible with a computer with 4-6 or more usb slots), and most importantly, cannot shut down without a trace and without damaging my savefile... so far that is the most ingenious solution i have seen in the operating system world
<HaikuUser2>
on easy you can boot up with your latest savefile, remove the stick immediately, work as much as you like, and then either save your work back of that session to the stick (if you want), or just power down and then you lose the last session but your previous one is still intact on your disk
<HaikuUser2>
it is as good as it gets imho... now i am also trying haiku because it seems to have a few tricks under its sleeves too, but looks like the trick to boot into RAM and run only there is still elusive here
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<dovsienko>
Linux has this support because at some point it grew big enough to need an initrd in order to boot
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<dovsienko>
hence the initrd/initramfs/ramdisk/tmpfs tooling
<HaikuUser2>
i see
<HaikuUser2>
btw which browser is usable here on haiku? webpositive does not render a lot of pages properly, now trying falkon
<dovsienko>
Haiku is meant to boot in one go, and it never had to boot from a floppy, so it evolved differently
<HaikuUser2>
just noticed that the webcam is not recognized (no driver for it probably) and there is no sound when i play audio
<HaikuUser2>
probably too much time to fiddle with it and find out how to make these work :)
<HaikuUser2>
i wish a fantastic thursday evening gmt time to everyone, i am off back to my bsd linux experiments
<HaikuUser2>
i will come back to haiku from time to time, only as a user, i wish i had enough brain capacity to develop it but i am stupid
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<HaikuUser2>
so i keep my fingers crossed for the geniuses working on it to be on par with any linux system, it as tremendous (trump word) potential i think
<HaikuUser2>
as --> has
<Halian>
“i wish i had enough brain capacity to develop it but i am stupid” real
<HaikuUser2>
yes, really... proudly stupid. at least i admit it
<HaikuUser2>
still not as stupid as socrates, but working on it
<HaikuUser2>
or far less "dunno" than proper zen buddhist monks, but again, working on it hard to eliminate all the knowledge from my head step by step... long journey, takes time and effort in today's knowlege-infested cacophony
<HaikuUser2>
if you feel smart or wise, just think (pun intended) on the utter futility of scientia (latin for "knowledge" or "knowing") as opposed to credo... the pun is indeed deep because it is referring to itself
<HaikuUser2>
anyway, cheers all good haikuians
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