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<gordonjcp>
mh
<gordonjcp>
I prefer z80 to 6502
<gordonjcp>
6502 would be okay if it had 16-bit address registers
<gordonjcp>
I like the 6809
<dovsienko>
any chance you could progress AArch64 for Haiku use?
<scanty>
6502 is faster clock for clock, and also much cheaper than a z80 at the time.
<phschafft>
the 6502 is super short on registers.
<phschafft>
which could make it much cheaper, but also costs a lot of power.
<scanty>
yes, but you have the whole zero page, giving you 3 cycle access to most instructions.
<phschafft>
but it's like a bad workaround.
<scanty>
no,i think it's an elegant design.
<phschafft>
I strongly disagree on that.
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<scanty>
then we agree to disagree.
<scanty>
not going to turn this into a shitfest about 8-bit CPUs
<phschafft>
seems so. also not the worst thing.
<dovsienko>
4-bit?
<phschafft>
in fact my claim is not about 8 bit CPUs at all. I also very much dislike the intel stuff for basically having no registers ;)
<scanty>
6502 was MOS technologies, not intel
<phschafft>
I mean there is that 1 bit CPU, and I actually considered to add one as a co-processor to my prototype machine. just for fun.
<phschafft>
scanty: yes, I said 'also'. ;)
<scanty>
ah, didn't realise.
<scanty>
just re-read it.
<phschafft>
no worries.
<phschafft>
:)
<scanty>
:-)
<phschafft>
if you don't give me at least 32 full general registers (plus special registers like sp, pc, ...) I'm not happy. ;)
<scanty>
heh, x86-64 gives you sixteen registers
<scanty>
r8-r15 are very handy
<phschafft>
and please also don't restrict me in how I use them. like... if I want to add two numbers I want to select all three registers I use for that. and some might be the same, and some might not.
<scanty>
well, i'm going to eat, bbl
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<phschafft>
wish you a good dinner(?). :)
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<jmairboeck>
What do you think about installing man pages for perl packages? (and for perl itself)
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<janking>
Good morning
<Begasus[m]>
sec
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<Begasus>
re
<Begasus>
g'morning jmairboeck and janking
<Begasus>
jmairboeck, wanted to run some checks on installing those manpages, but the ones I tried (dev-perl) don't supply them?
<Begasus>
does it need an extra statement in the recipe for it?
<jmairboeck>
Begasus: I'll do a test build of perl with man1dir etc. set and see what comes out of it
<Begasus>
+
<Begasus>
+1
<Begasus>
stupid numlock again :)
<jmairboeck>
I don't know, maybe its a quirk of Module::Build and doesn't happen with MakeMaker, I noticed that there were additional man pages installed in text_bibtex (that recipe isn't online yet)
<Begasus>
will wait what it leads to there with you before I attempt again :)
<jmairboeck>
maybe try one of the module_build ones if you want
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<Begasus>
hunting :)
<Begasus>
frozen_bubble it is :)
<Begasus>
been a while, fetching the perl modules not installed atm
<jmairboeck>
ok, MakeMaker based modules still don't build and install man pages, but they weren't there before, so nothing is lost here
<Begasus[m]>
I get the impression Haiku is taken more seriously then some years ago :)
<jmairboeck>
I'll do a similar one for Text::BibTeX also when I'm done with that (by the same author)
<Begasus[m]>
+1
<Begasus[m]>
no that I got commit acces at kde.invent I can push Haiku fixes upsteam also :)
<Begasus[m]>
but not taken this lightly, not merging there without some approval :)
<Begasus[m]>
waddlesplash still up?
<Begasus[m]>
if it is too soon to update tiff I'll close the PR (or set it as draft, but rather not, already enough draft PR's to my taste), holding me back atm to progress on other things :)
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<nipos>
Is it somehow possible to define custom make targets when using Haikus makefile-engine?I checked some applications on HaikuArchives and none seem to do that
<nipos>
I wanted to add a "debug" and a "package" target to BeAIM,the former simply defining WARNINGS=ALL, SYMBOLS=TRUE and DEBUGGER=TRUE before starting the build.
<jmairboeck>
I think you can just add targets after the makefile-engine include at the end
<nipos>
When adding the target before including makefile-engine,it seems it uses that one as default target (which is nonsense and obviously won't work).When adding it after including makefile-engine,running make debug starts the build but it doesn't see the variables somehow
<boody24[m]>
also I didn't generate esp image with "jam -j2 -q @minimum-raw esp.image haiku-minimum.image", because it didn't generate it for some reason
<Begasus>
even weirder, now it launches without it :P
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<Begasus>
no clue about arm here
<boody24[m]>
<Begasus> "even weirder, now it launches..." <- sorry I didn't complete my sentence :(
<boody24[m]>
sorry I didn't complete my sentence :(
<boody24[m]>
Sorry I didn't complete my sentence :(
<Begasus>
IRC acting up? saw my last line double also in NeoChat :)
<boody24[m]>
I guess so
<boody24[m]>
boody24[m]: I generated the image myself
<Begasus[m]>
OK, Tokodon on 32bit fine again :)
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<waddlesplash>
Begasus[m]: if you installed the new tiff on your system and everything continues to work then it's fine to merge
<janking>
now works BeAIM :)
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<Begasus>
thanks for getting back to it waddlesplash, only thing I see is that in the Translator it still mentions tiff 4.6.0 while tiff 4.7.0 is installed
<waddlesplash>
is 4.6.0 installed?
<waddlesplash>
if it's not then don't worry about that
<waddlesplash>
you can check "listimage" to see what version of libtiff the translator has loaded
<Begasus>
will do in a sec, thnx
* janking
is idle: BRB
<Begasus>
still lists 4.6.0? 11366 0x00000086f6b5c000 0x00000086f6bd7000 0 0 /boot/system/lib/libtiff.so.6.0.2
<Begasus>
the one from 4.7.0 has version 6.1.0
<Begasus>
libtiff.so.6.0.2 isn't on the system
<Begasus>
hmm maybe it reloads it after reboot
<Begasus>
bias
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<Begasus>
looks OK after reboot: 11387 0x000001bd25d6c000 0x000001bd25dea000 0 0 /boot/system/lib/libtiff.so.6.1.0
<Begasus>
will let it rest for a few days, if nothing pops up I'll merge
<waddlesplash>
sounds good
<Begasus>
biab
<mbrumbelow>
Happy New Year! First day back to work.
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<Yoke>
I'm back on the laptop now, they got a replacement ssd to me way faster than I thought they would
<Yoke>
now just to get screen brightness working again
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 9eaffd12b085 - Web+ bookmark bar: Minor GUI string changes
<humdinger>
waddlesplash: thanks, I was wondering if I should bump that change... :)
<humdinger>
waddlesplash: what about removing the "Open in new tab"?
<humdinger>
everything gets opened in a new tab anyway
<waddlesplash>
I replied there
<humdinger>
oh. didn't get a mail...
<waddlesplash>
I did it just before pushing
<waddlesplash>
I think we should replicate other browser's behavior and have them not open in new tab by default
<humdinger>
maybe. Though it's nicely consistent, no matter if you double-click a bookmark or html file, choose a bookmark from the menu or the bookmark bar, always gets opened in a new tab.
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<janking>
down aggain :(
<Begasus[m]>
'lo humdinger :)
<janking>
???? Begasus
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<zdykstra>
humdinger: would you accept a patch that allows the upload command for UploadIt to be configured, so custom pastebins can be used?
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<Anarchos>
Begasus java ?
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<Begasus[m]>
nah, just c++/cmake (that's latest KDevelop with Qt6.8.1) :)
<Anarchos>
bad checksum on nightly haiku-r1~beta5_hrev58500-1-x86_64.hpkg :(
<Begasus[m]>
bugger ... again?
<Begasus[m]>
had some issues this morning connecting to Haiku's repo with pkgman
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<Yoke>
Whoever came up with universal scroller is an absoulute legend, it makes the little trackpoint nub on this thing useful
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<Begasus>
+1 Yoke :)
<Begasus>
is there a way to see what libraries are in use by binaries? already used readelf on the libraries, but that doesn't work for binaries
<Begasus>
on 32bit so far gdal still uses tiff4 (old), on this 64bit it wants to uninstall some packages like documentviewer ...
<jmairboeck>
that should work for executables as well
<Anarchos>
Begasus ldd ?
<Begasus>
slaps head!
<Begasus>
think I searched in /system/bin, documentviewer is in /system/apps :)
* janking
is idle: BRB
<Anarchos>
by the way you can lauch the binary, and use listarea
<Begasus>
would take some time Anarchos :)
<Begasus>
2654 items in /system/bin :)
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<Begasus>
ah, jmairboeck, sdl_perl is one of them: requires: lib:libtiff>=5.8.0
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<Begasus>
hmm .. not listed in BUILD_REQUIRES ..
<jmairboeck>
given that SDL 1 is rather old, I'm not sure if it works with newer versions
<jmairboeck>
I'll have to check that
<Begasus>
thanks
<Begasus>
I'll have a look at imagemagick
<Begasus>
err .. graphicsmagick
<Anarchos>
Begasus good queston, i can't find ldd for haiku
<Begasus>
;)
<Begasus>
Anarchos, readelf works fine
<Anarchos>
so ls * | xargs readelf ....
<Anarchos>
it will pipe the result of ls (the whole list of binaries) to readelf one at a time
<Anarchos>
(precisely it takes the output of the pipe (the ls result) and copies it to the end of the command following 'xargs')
<Begasus>
readelf -d /system/bin/* | grep tiff
* phschafft
gets cold showers from reading something like 'ls * | xargs ...'
<Anarchos>
also :)
<Anarchos>
phschafft why ? it works well
<Begasus>
not looking for readelf :)
<phschafft>
Begasus++
<phschafft>
Anarchos: until it doesn't.
<Anarchos>
phschafft sure, if the output is too big...
<phschafft>
ls is a renderer. if you want to list use something like find.
<Anarchos>
phschafft i always used ls for 25 years :S
<phschafft>
also don't use filenames-as-lines but filenames-as-zero-terminated records.
<phschafft>
Anarchos: than you might be happy that it was wrong for 25 years ;)
<Anarchos>
phschafft indeed
<Anarchos>
'list' the files in the dir seems more natural to me than 'find' what i have already at hand
<phschafft>
how long something has not broken for one self's usecase is just a bad metric to figure out if it's correct or if it will break for someone else with a different usecase ;)
<Anarchos>
phschafft sure
<phschafft>
I don't say that unix tool names are the best.
<Anarchos>
i didn't intend to sound like i was right. Just surprise to learn after 25y that i am wrong
<Begasus>
hmm ... not getting a policy warning from haikuporter commenting out libtiff ...
<phschafft>
then I'm sorry. I'm just hearing too many times 'we always did that that way, so we will keep doing it even if we now know it\'s wrong'.
<phschafft>
Anarchos: you could also use printf btw in this case.
<phschafft>
if you use * then the shell does the listing.
<phschafft>
ls in that case gets the fill list of files to begin with an tries to render them in a user friendly way.
<Begasus>
bugger ... burried in subdirectory, no wonder
<phschafft>
the only reason this likely never broke is because ls is smart and does less if stdout is not a tty.
<phschafft>
(but a pipe)
<phschafft>
but ls still does stuff like sort it (again, as * is already sorted by the shell).
<jmairboeck>
Begasus: yeah, perl modules aren't directly in $libDir, so haikuporter doesn't catch their dependencies
<Begasus>
same for graphicsmagick jmairboeck
<jmairboeck>
ah, I thought you were still at SDL_perl
<Begasus>
but a revbump for those with devel:libtiff$secondaryArchSuffix >= 6 should be enough (even before tiff is updated)
<scanty>
hm, new perl. too bad i don't do anything in perl.
<Begasus>
tiff 4.2.0 is still used in 32bit, tiff4 4.4.0 could be dropped in favor of the newer one (SONAME changes from 5 to 6 then)
* phschafft
is in fact very happy that there is work done on the perl side of things.
<Begasus>
not a new perl scanty :)
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<scanty>
oh
<scanty>
i used to use perl at my first job, a very long time ago.
<scanty>
perl 5, iirc
<Begasus>
it's still good, and jmairboeck is doing a great job on keeping it on track and working +1
<scanty>
i agree.
<jmairboeck>
scanty: the perl package now includes man pages (packaged separately in perl_doc)
<scanty>
ah okays.
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<Anarchos>
phschafft so how can i use find and get just the name of files (without the ./ prefix)
<Begasus>
afk for a while
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* Anarchos
think people use ls instead of find because it is shorter to type.
<phschafft>
Anarchos: what is the problem with that prefix?
<Anarchos>
phschafft it is less readable to me.
<scanty>
i've been know to "find | grep filename"
<scanty>
err
<scanty>
find / | grep filename
<scanty>
sometimes i get lucky.
<Anarchos>
scanty on haiku, you can do a faster 'query filename'
<Anarchos>
or 'query -a filename'
<scanty>
ah
<phschafft>
Anarchos: I didn't had that problem before myself. And I don't see a technical aspect. so I don't really know.
<Anarchos>
phschafft i will stuck withls a looses some ms :)
<phschafft>
I mean you could strip them later on.
<phschafft>
Anarchos: the problem is that ls will not read back your filename. it will read back a rendered version of your filename.
* Anarchos
can't understand why just get the list of files in a dir is so convoluted
<phschafft>
I think the problem is that people tend to overcomplicate it.
<scanty>
could feed ls to grep
<phschafft>
the * already returns you a sorted list of filenames.
<phschafft>
all the rest is sparly parts altering that list.
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<phschafft>
and doing something like passing around names thru ls and then line seperated stuff and maybe then not including a -- on the final command in xargs will just result in your filenames being altered over and over again and then in the end maybe doing things you don't expect.
<phschafft>
like if they contain dashes they might end up being used as parameters.
<phschafft>
the best is always to give stuff directly to the tools. e.g. as Begasus showed above.
<Anarchos>
phschafft sure.
<jmairboeck>
I'm done with Biber! "All tests successful."
<Anarchos>
jmairboeck justin ?
<phschafft>
jmairboeck: :)
<jmairboeck>
no, the biblatex compiler tool
<Anarchos>
jmairboeck i was joking
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* Anarchos
dreams to compile pandoc
* phschafft
sit with scanty, showing scanty that the current project he is working is in fact written in Perl ;)
<scanty>
ah nice.
<scanty>
c++ and assembly here.
<phschafft>
I'm sorry ;)
<scanty>
haha
<scanty>
i actually don't mind.
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<humdinger>
zdykstra: sure. PR away. :)
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<zdykstra>
cool - if I come up with something I'll run it by you :)
<humdinger>
what do you have in mind? just a config file or GUI?
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<zdykstra>
I was leaning towards config file for ease of implementation, but I'm not sure if that's Haiku-enough
<zdykstra>
what would you like to see?
<humdinger>
we could say it's a power user feature :)
<humdinger>
good enough for me.
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 3aa371a2852f - Icon-O-Matic: Add remove menu on Transformer
<boody24[m]>
This command "jam -j2 -q @minimum-raw esp.image haiku-minimum.image" should generate an esp image
<boody24[m]>
but it doesn't
<boody24[m]>
what could be the issue?
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* janking
is idle: BRB
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<dovsienko>
boody24[m]: AArch64 development requires a lot of skills, few people attempt it
<scanty>
i was thinking to pick up ARM asm someday, it looks very interesting
<scanty>
and arm is in everyhting everywhere.
<scanty>
everything*
<boody24[m]>
dovsienko: yes, I'm certainly don't have those skills atm :(
<boody24[m]>
But I'm willing to learn
<dovsienko>
boody24[m]: what AArch64 hardware/emulation are you using?
<boody24[m]>
Currently qemu
<boody24[m]>
People here advised me to run for qemu and then move to rpi or smth
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<dovsienko>
a reasonable first learning step could be getting another OS that already has AArch64 support and running it on your emulator/hardware just to make sure it works
<dovsienko>
in my experience, NetBSD is not difficult in QEMU