<x512[m]>
scantysnax: Do not use BDirectWindow. It is obsolete and do not match with how modern GPUs work.
<x512[m]>
It will be completely unsupported or emulated by BBitmap buffer painted by 60 Hz timer when hardware graphics acceleration will be implemented.
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<piusbird>
can you access the BeOs api from a terminal based app
<piusbird>
i want something that prints the content of BClipboard on command
<piusbird>
sort of like xsel on unix
<x512[m]>
piusbird: Yes. BeOS/Haiku have no concept of GUI/Console subsystem like Windows.
<piusbird>
cool
<x512[m]>
But you may need to create BApplication object.
<piusbird>
I kinda expected that
<piusbird>
C++ is not my favorite lang
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<piusbird>
but i can hack it in a pinch
<augiedoggie_>
there is a clipboard command that does most of what xsel does
<augiedoggie_>
and, you can access the clipboard without a BApplication, you just need to create the BClipboard object instead of using be_clipboard
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<Begasus[m]>
morning peeps
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<Begasus[m]>
bogus network atm (ISP issues) :/
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<draKon>
hey any haiku developers on right now?
<draKon>
got some tallking points to discuss
<draKon>
I wanna put some info forward might help speed things up with hardware support
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<phschafft>
hm?
<phschafft>
it's still morning, so not many are awake right now.
<phschafft>
but maybe you can outline your points some?
<draKon>
ok
<draKon>
just wondering if i can ask question about why the developers dont focus on 4 key hardware graphics machines, old and new
<draKon>
?
<draKon>
like pentium 4's and pentium 1s and 2s
<draKon>
?
<draKon>
just feels like its spreading to thin, aiming to support to much hardware?
<phschafft>
I clearly can't speak for everyone in here nor for the project. However I would guess that people aim for a lot of different hardware because there is a lot of different hardware in use.
<draKon>
yes a lot
<draKon>
ive been a huge fan of BeOS
<draKon>
so glad haiku kept it going
<phschafft>
that is something I have noticed.
<draKon>
didnt get to use it long time back like some of us
<draKon>
i would've used it, but lack of internet support in the early 00's for BeOS made me give up
<draKon>
so impressed
<draKon>
with whats been achieved
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<draKon>
well for my machine i couldnt get the modem functional
<draKon>
i just wanted to start getting heaps of others involved
<draKon>
and want to start selling machines with Haiku installed,
<phschafft>
:)
<draKon>
just hoping i can get tailored support options for specific machines, but I have hard time looking through all the info, for best machines
<draKon>
i think a lot about futures
<draKon>
and just curious how to jump in the ocean of bliss
<phschafft>
I'm sure people would be willig to discuss best options as well as options to improve support specific to some hardware.
<draKon>
ive been using a dell laptop past week or more, works great
<draKon>
few glitches obviousy
<phschafft>
the question surely is what users you are targeting.
<phschafft>
depending on that you can select the hardware.
<draKon>
but even then, happier then looking at the dull ass colours on the dose OS
<draKon>
i particuarly am fond of the idea installing a lot of useful software, that i know is good
<draKon>
so passing on to others they have no discussionsa bout letting go of the beast of distractions
<draKon>
well users personally i want more alternates, Haiku is great, and BSD too
<phschafft>
still the question is who to sell to.
<draKon>
i hate how so many are caught up not thinking about how good choices like BSD and Haiku and Others are
<draKon>
older particularly
<draKon>
over 30 minimal
<draKon>
creativea artists game makers specifically and copyers for CD's and also muscians
<draKon>
im in the long process of maybe getting others in my shed and getting them heavily into starting on gaming creation
<draKon>
not just haiku, but older consoles revamping
<phschafft>
hm.
<draKon>
starting new web interfaces too
<draKon>
silent private websites
<draKon>
haiku alter static page environments
<draKon>
more freedom, with limited cost, but room for lots to be adapted
<phschafft>
given the state the graphic support seems to be in from an outside perspective, I'm not sure if Haiku is the right platform for any game development.
<draKon>
really i can buy a handful of pc's few months, i just hate staying where i am and want to go to other countries
<draKon>
the environment in the region i stay in, is HORRIBLE for graphics machine processors
<draKon>
to hot, and not intelligent enough creativity to house the art concepts available for modern needs
<draKon>
nah thats not my problem
<draKon>
its the lack of trust in where humanity is to support too many of us the same as before
<draKon>
i doubt we'll be able to use Haiku in 20 years if someone doesnt support the words creativity of naming things correctly and better, and less bad english
<draKon>
labelling is a huge frustration
<draKon>
part of why windows screwed up
<draKon>
i cant tust the level of required support where i hope for a good result, with current users
<draKon>
only regarding language, otherwise no problems
<draKon>
gtg for a moment bbs hopefully
* phschafft
nods.
<draKon>
bk
<draKon>
i was wanting to get old friends to come start programming and starting internet spaces
<draKon>
games specifically
<draKon>
but more than haiku
<draKon>
i think haiku supports emulation well, lets just leave it at that ;)
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<Begasus[m]>
alive again (for how long?) :)
<Begasus[m]>
latest ScummVM and tools are ready for updating
<OscarL>
fancy2209[m]: Mind you, some of those listed there are actually not working that well, or at all, and might need to be commented out really (going for some bug tickets I've seen).
<OscarL>
Hello Begasus!
<Begasus>
Hi OscarL!
<Begasus>
how's it going, feeling better?
<OscarL>
Begasus: still with pretty low energy, but in a good mood at least :-) Thanks for asking!
<OscarL>
All well on your side, I hope?
<OscarL>
(besides the usuall KDE headaches, I mean :-P)
<Begasus>
fine here, on par so far with KDE stuff, so can tackle other things like libjxl atm :)
<OscarL>
Too bad I can see your progrees just by reading IRC logs. We miss you botifico! :-)
<Begasus>
well, libjxl needed for kimageformats, so still a bit KDE :P
<OscarL>
s/can/can't/
<Begasus>
haven't pushed much lately
<Begasus>
changes for the rc's on KDE are pushed to codeberg
<Begasus>
I knew why I switched that repo, changes checksum :(
<OscarL>
always "fun" with those :-(
<OscarL>
Later today (after going out for groceries) I'll try to work a bit on mdsnd (IIRC, build failed on buildmasters last time for some unknown reason).
<Begasus>
there is only one label shown, but I guess they all are related to beta5
<Begasus>
could be, as I think it went from +125 to +129
<OscarL>
problem is that beta5 doesn't has tags for each commit, as hrevs on master.
<OscarL>
Not sure if its feasible, but it would be so much better if it had tags like "r1beta5+125".
<Begasus>
nah, not for me at least :)
<OscarL>
when on beta4, I had several cases where it was a pain in the rear knowing if the revision I was using included certain commit or not.
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<OscarL>
not much trouble now, because beta5 is getting very few commits.
<Begasus>
need to check the local patch for kdevelop here, I know it works on nightly
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<Begasus[m]>
OK, PR open for libjxl changes (quite a few) :)
<OscarL>
"revbum" rev went homeless? :-D
<Begasus>
eeps
<Begasus[m]>
fixed, thanks :)
<OscarL>
"libstdc++".... doesn't shows up on readelf, or hp simply doesn't complains about it?
<Begasus>
hp didn't complain, just like with libatomic, commented out but waiting on comments about it
<OscarL>
I ask just because I kinda half-remember some recipes actually needing it, but it getting pulled by something else, or something like that.
<OscarL>
sorry for being so vague, coffee hasn't kicked in yet :-P
<Begasus>
sometimes a devel package can pull it in, but for runtime it would require it then also
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<Begasus>
devel:liba requires devel:libb, cmd:foo requires devel:liba, but not devel:libb (if it's done correctly)
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<Begasus>
cmd:foo could still have a dependency on lib:liba + lib:libb then :)
<OscarL>
maybe I'm remembering one of those cases where hp fails to detect the dependency because the .so are "addons/extensions", and not living under $libDir.
<Begasus>
yeah, same for the ones on Iceweasel
<Begasus>
kimageformats only provides plugins installed in $addOnsDir, not picked up by hp also
<Begasus>
well "-DKDE_INSTALL_QTPLUGINDIR=$addOnsDir/Qt6"
<OscarL>
right, that's why a few days ago I was mulling about being able to ask hp for aditional checks on given dirs.
<Begasus>
hard to determine which directories to include
<OscarL>
my idea was adding some form of tag/hint on the recipe.
<OscarL>
say... "EXTRA_LIBS_DIRS", or something like that.
<Begasus>
that's only one directory with multiple sub-directories
<OscarL>
that if present, hp would use when doing the dependency checks.
<OscarL>
Lookd at the code a bit before... shouldn't be too hard, but requires more focus than I had at the time :-D
<Begasus>
in case of cmake it could check the "build" or/and "build/lib" directories?
<OscarL>
I think it shouldn't try to be "smart" about it, and just take hints provided by the recipe author.
<Begasus>
even then :) "build/bin/imageformats"
<OscarL>
(implementation would get too complex, and tied to different make systems, for little gain, IMO)
<Begasus>
yeah
<OscarL>
but being able to say.. "hey, these python extensions modules need to be checked too", and just adding a few "EXTRA_LIBS_DIRS=" lines... sounds more reasonable :-)
<Begasus>
if you get there give a yell, think I got some candidates that fit the bill :)
<OscarL>
Will do! I think I could do it with not much problems, if not for my lack of focus, but will put it closer to the top of the todo list.
<OscarL>
Begasus: re libjxl... nice cleanup on the dependencies (even if just by moving them to the _tools package)!
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<Begasus[m]>
just folowed hp here too :)
<Begasus[m]>
atleast base package will call on less deps
<Begasus>
nice! preview for heif image works in Gwenview :)
<Begasus>
the jxl (old) translator doesn't work for a long time iirc
<MonniTheCat>
IMO HaikuPorter should just support "addon:" prefix for library files not located in normal library search path...
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<OscarL>
MonniTheCat: and how that would help it to know which directories to look into for doing the dependecy checks?
<OscarL>
("addon:" for compiled extensions for things like python or lua modules woulnd't help much either, IMO)
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<MonniTheCat>
<OscarL> "Mika Lindqvist: and how that..." <- It’s not really hard to check what files are packaged and which are not. Library files still use .so extension, but it works also without any extension as it’s easy to check if file is shared library or not.
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<Begasus>
not every shared object is a library as is, some function as plugins and can/are spread around the system
<OscarL>
if hp did iterated over the packaged files to see which are shared objects, and perform the dependency checks (which sounds cool), then not really seeing what "addon:" will bring up to the table.
<OscarL>
in any case, patches welcomed! /me shouts and prepares to go out for groceries. Read you later!
<Begasus>
+1
<Begasus>
l8r
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<MonniTheCat>
<Begasus> "not every shared object is a..." <- As long as it exports symbols, it can be used by other projects, no matter where it is located... But all paths in packages are relative to the root directory...
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<Begasus>
MonniTheCat, I have no clue (or not much) on the process how it's done, I'll leave it to the experts, can only report (and this is known)
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<MonniTheCat>
<OscarL> "if hp did iterated over the..." <- When I initially thought about it, it was merely to disambiguate if two projects use same basename (filename excluding extension) for a library... Then one could specify both "namespace" and the library basename... It doesn't really need full path for the file in the recipe unless the filename is very common, which is already bad idea...
<MonniTheCat>
<Begasus> "Mika Lindqvist, I have no clue..." <- You just dump the EXPORTS table of the binary... if it doesn't exist or is empty, then the file can be skipped...
<Begasus[m]>
still no clue how to, this should be done over haikuporter
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<BrunoSpr>
hello all...
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<erysdren>
hi
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<BrunoSpr>
hello back
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<Begasus[m]>
hello front
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<MonniTheCat>
opposite of back is belly ;)
<Begasus>
which is in the front :P
<bjorkintosh>
I thought it was Forth.
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<MonniTheCat>
<Begasus[m]> "still no clue how to, this..." <- "nm -D" command shows all dynamic symbols, EXPORTS table is just one subset of it, basically every line containing " T " (space+T+space)
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<Hanicef[m]>
<bjorkintosh> "I thought it was Forth." <- Nah, you're thinking of lisp
<Hanicef[m]>
(Hoping you get the reference)
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<bjorkintosh>
I hoped someone would.
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<Begasus>
don't count me in there :)
<Begasus>
can't even get a stupid jxl file to show (it did work at one point in the past) :/
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<Begasus[m]>
guess we could use an update on the jxl translator, and a new one for heif images :)
<OscarL>
but I guess a rebuild of it was triggered on 2024/10/29, as that's the date it has on depot.
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<OscarL>
new build triggered most likely by some of your kde recipes that needed libdns_sd.so.
<OscarL>
My confusion was... I was aware of the build failing originally, but didin't remember doing anything to fix it (and it only has one commit :-D)
<Begasus>
good thing it triggered the build :) (had it in haikuports/packages)
<OscarL>
Failure on buildmaster was quite strange, and didn't replicated on your machines or mine. I guess buildmaster were using and older beta4 hrev, and at the time of mdnsresponder rebuild... they were running beta5 already.
<OscarL>
Oh well, one mistery less :-)
<MonniTheCat>
maybe "make" had issues with dependency checking... looked like it couldn't find a library that it was supposed to build on same run...
<waddlesplash>
Anarchos: I don't think you need checksums
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<Anarchos>
waddlesplash i coded that from many weeks, let me keep my illusion
<waddlesplash>
Anarchos: BFS root inode has a be:volume_id attribute
<waddlesplash>
which is a random number
<waddlesplash>
you should be able to use that to identify unique BFS partitions
<Begasus[m]>
korli building up to something? :)
<Anarchos>
waddlesplash my use case is to put the bios drive id in the bootmanager, to let haiku loader launches partition on all the installed disk
<waddlesplash>
Anarchos: which sounds like a nice feature, but we shouldn't need disk checksums for this
<waddlesplash>
just use the volume_id
<Anarchos>
waddlesplash so i want to be able to launch linux on disk 0 or windows on disk 1 from haiku boot loader
<waddlesplash>
oh
<Anarchos>
waddlesplash volume_id won't work for windows ?
<waddlesplash>
why do you need disk checksums for that?
<Anarchos>
waddlesplash to reassign the bios drive ids when the driver iniatilizes , cause they are known in bootloader, but not passed to kernel.
<Anarchos>
(yet)
<waddlesplash>
you can probably ask the kernel for them
<waddlesplash>
using the BIOS module
<waddlesplash>
ah, but that may cause problems. hm
<waddlesplash>
how does GRUB et al. solve this?
<Anarchos>
you can see that with "driveinfo" in Terminal : ioctl(B_GET_BIOS_DRIVE_ID): Not a tty
<Anarchos>
waddlesplash they put some label in the volume boot sector
<Anarchos>
if i understand.
<waddlesplash>
I see
<Anarchos>
uuid when you install grub
<Anarchos>
that's why recent grub menu deprecated internal labels in favour of this uuid
<Anarchos>
i did my chores :)
<Anarchos>
i am debugging my code. I know that the das_init_device() (scsi driver init method) got the good offsets, but driveinfo gives bios_id = 0x0 (instead of 0x80, 0x81 and so on), so i have some work left
<Anarchos>
and as i pollute all the scsi driver with bios specific stuff, it is only a proof of concept
<Begasus[m]>
k, let's try to build cargo-c again :)
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<Anarchos>
Begasus[m] why do you need cargo-c ?
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<Anarchos>
waddlesplash but it will be a good step to solve ticket #3545
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] f63a4a17ea82 - kernel/fs: Unlock the unused-vnodes lock before continue'ing.
<dovsienko>
waddlesplash: hello. after commit 79bc16b what's the recommended way of getting a reentrant getprotobyname() on Haiku?
<waddlesplash>
don't think we have one
<waddlesplash>
is it really necessary?
<dovsienko>
for thread-safe code, yes. unless there is something else
<waddlesplash>
I meant, whether the API is really that useful
<waddlesplash>
I will have to check what BeOS/BONE exported here to see if we can safely reinstate that
<dovsienko>
libpcap tries to use _r functions when possible, and currently it takes to test for 3 different non-standard versions of getnetbyname_r() and three different non-standard versions of getprotobyname_r()
<dovsienko>
so it would not be difficult to accommodate a fourth non-standard case if it is available
<dovsienko>
the commit message says the binary compatibility remains, so if the _r functions are still there and are reliable for thread-safety, it would not be difficult to add the prototypes to libpcap source tree
<dovsienko>
and the tests
<dovsienko>
there is no rush because it has been this way for a while, but if it is practicable to switch to _r on Haiku, why not do it
<waddlesplash>
actually the libnetwork refactor/merge may have broken binary compatibility too, not sure
<waddlesplash>
I guess some investigation is needed here
<dovsienko>
it can wait. would it help to open a ticket for that?
<waddlesplash>
I suppose
<waddlesplash>
meanwhile, ran iceweasel through a profiler, over half of thread time is in malloc/free
<waddlesplash>
we really need to get hoard2 replaced...
* waddlesplash
goes back to working on OpenBSD malloc port
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<AlienSoldier>
we don't get all type of music supported by ffmpeg in mediaplayer. QMplay can play (wit ffmpeg) .STR fles (those are playstation)
<AlienSoldier>
*with
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<HaikuUser>
hai
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<Habbie>
HaikuUser, hello!
<Anarchos>
hello
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<Yoke>
Heyo!
<Hanicef[m]>
henlo
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