<dovsienko>
would be simpler to give the NES its own monitor/TV and to focus on the main problem meanwhile?
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<scantysnax>
dovsienko: yes, that's exactly how i am going to do my experiments.
<scantysnax>
an all in one solution on the desktop is really nice, though
* OscarL
hopes 4 GB of RAM is enough to build this boost thingie (using ramfs, so might hit a bug or two anyway).
<scantysnax>
OscarL: I've worked with boost on Haiku a while ago. It should all compile cleanly
<scantysnax>
moved away from it since.
<OscarL>
I'm trying to rebuild the package for boost1.85, to avoid an issue with wrong dependencies.
<OscarL>
(I had always ran the other way every time I saw a project havign boost as dependency)
<scantysnax>
bbiaf
<OscarL>
(specially when the project is tiny, but drags that monster behind).
<OscarL>
I should really have run a serch for more sizeof(dirent().d_name) before. Sigh. (failed with same error further down)
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<OscarL>
what I don't get is... how comes boost1.85 got build in 2024-07-10 without a patch for this.
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<scantysnax>
hrm, i think we were using boost 1.5 or so. apparently some things have changed?
<scantysnax>
but i do remember it was a highly organised series of headers.
<OscarL>
I can't talk about its quality. Just was put off by its size (when just trying to compile/use something else)
<scantysnax>
yeah, it's pretty big if you need it for one or two things.
<scantysnax>
by the time we moved away from it, we were only using it for SHA calculation so we used our own.
<OscarL>
jfc. Used memory (while building it): 3.6 GiB peak. Hovering around 2.4 now.
<scantysnax>
wow.
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<scantysnax>
how do you tell how much memory is used?
<OscarL>
won't complain much about optimized + LTO Python builds, in comparison.
<OscarL>
ActivityMonitor shows memory usage vs time.
<scantysnax>
ah
<scantysnax>
we are using LTO.
<scantysnax>
still the binary is pretty big.
<OscarL>
we only have LTO enabled on Python 3.13 so far.
<OscarL>
Makes builds times 2.5 larger, for aroud a 5% speed bump (on one synthetic benchmark at least).
<scantysnax>
been using it on probably beta4 for a long time
<OscarL>
mmm, misse a memory spike that touched the 4 GB ceiling (on the ActivityMonitor graph at least)... hope the build isn't borked.
<OscarL>
*missed
<scantysnax>
let's see... with lto: 848kB
<scantysnax>
without: 861kB
<scantysnax>
haha
<scantysnax>
probably will remove it in future builds on haiku
<OscarL>
why? doesn't helps speedup things?
<OscarL>
at least it is doing some code-elimination, no?
<scantysnax>
13k...
<scantysnax>
negligible.
<scantysnax>
for now i'm leaving it in.
<scantysnax>
because things are working well.
<scantysnax>
i don't want to poke the bear
<OscarL>
boost1.85 finished, but package creation is taking a looong time.
<scantysnax>
hooray
<OscarL>
finished in almost 40 minutes (using RAMFS). No way I'm trying that on my HDD install :-D
<scantysnax>
yikes.
<scantysnax>
40 minutes puts the boo in boost.
<OscarL>
lol, yeah!
<scantysnax>
i don't remember it being that large when using it.
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<OscarL>
mmm, I am NOT installing vcmi to test this boost package.
<OscarL>
way too many dependencies!
<scantysnax>
what's vcmi?
<OscarL>
(but after installing my locally built boost1.85, at least it doesn't complains about a missing icu75)
<OscarL>
scantysnax: according to its .recipe: "An open source engine for Heroes or Might and Magic III"
<scantysnax>
ah
<scantysnax>
sound really uninteresting.
<OscarL>
right :-)
<OscarL>
let's see if I can test with innoextract instead.
<OscarL>
smoke-test: PASSED
<OscarL>
ready to ship, I say. :-P
<scantysnax>
lols
<scantysnax>
as long as the magic smoke is still in there and not coming out, we have a chance!
<OscarL>
uninstalled my boost1.85.... now `pkgman install {vcmi,innoextract}` fail (as expected). Hope I didn't break functionality with my little build-fix patch.
<scantysnax>
and you don't smell anything?
<scantysnax>
:^)
<OscarL>
scantysnax: I mean... try it on your machine: "pkgman install innoexctract" (you won't be able to, there ICU75 package is not available on repos anymore).
<OscarL>
if I'm not mistaken... those broken dependecies also break the new "pkgman search --not-required" functionality (when used without the --installed option).
<scantysnax>
let me try, hold on
<scantysnax>
pkgman install innoextract
<scantysnax>
100% repochecksum-1 [65 bytes]
<scantysnax>
Validating checksum for Haiku...done.
<scantysnax>
100% repochecksum-1 [64 bytes]
<scantysnax>
Validating checksum for HaikuPorts...done.
<scantysnax>
Encountered problems:
<scantysnax>
problem 1: nothing provides lib:libicudata>=75.1 needed by boost1.85-1.85.0-1
<scantysnax>
solution 1:
<scantysnax>
- do not install "providing innoextract"
<scantysnax>
Please select a solution, skip the problem for now or quit.
<OscarL>
I wish manually mounted RAMFS devices didn't got hidden on "Disks". I'd want my /RAMDRIVE, to show up there along with the rest of volumes :-)
<scantysnax>
i think i might get a SSD
<OscarL>
(using the next best thing now... a symlink on Desktop, albeit I rather had less icons there)
<OscarL>
scantysnax: do it!
<OscarL>
I finally pulled the trigger on the cheapest one I could find...
<scantysnax>
hehe yeah, i'm going to save some money
<OscarL>
(120 GB, about 17 USD)
<scantysnax>
i want 1TB or so.
<OscarL>
no postage paid, so it was then or never for me.
<scantysnax>
that's pretty cheap
<OscarL>
17 bucks is a big chunk of my monthly expenses but... happy with it so far :-)
<scantysnax>
ah
<scantysnax>
smoke btb
<scantysnax>
brb*
<scantysnax>
back
<scantysnax>
if i didnt' spend money on smokes, i could afford that ssd.
<OscarL>
:-D
<OscarL>
switch to a tobacco pipe? (should be cheaper)
<scantysnax>
yeah, but those aren't really portable.
<scantysnax>
and it would be weird to be the only guy smoking from a pipe.
<OscarL>
I was finnaly able to quit smoking 6 years ago.
<scantysnax>
it's been very hard
<scantysnax>
i quit for 3 months sometime ago
<OscarL>
I had "quit" two times before... 3 months, then a year and change... till got a job... anxiety spikes... and relapsed.
<OscarL>
now no job, no money, but at least no smokes :-D
<scantysnax>
understood
<scantysnax>
can you get any benefits from the government because of your illness?
<OscarL>
for mental issues? not really (unless you're institusionalized).
<scantysnax>
ah, that's too bad.
<OscarL>
(and the parenthesis part is not a given either :-D)
<scantysnax>
i see.
<scantysnax>
i get enough to go month to month.
<OscarL>
that's good.
<OscarL>
safety nets are important.
<scantysnax>
yes.
<OscarL>
While I was working... managed to save enough to buy a small house that I rent, so I (usually) get that as passive income. Not much, but at least I'm not a burden to my family.
<scantysnax>
ah, that's good.
<scantysnax>
i live at home still, but i pay rent every month
<OscarL>
(I'd be even better off... if it wasn't for Argentine's crazy economy :-D)
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<scantysnax>
can't say i know anything about that.
<OscarL>
wish I could say the same, lol :-D
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<OscarL>
lol, work-dir for boost1.85 (after a successful .hpkg build)... 768.28 MiB (and that's *without* a work-dir git repo)
* OscarL
happily nukes it from ramfs, smiling for not having to wait anywhere between 3 to 12 minutes on cleaning up suck dirs (as was the case on HDD).
<OscarL>
erysdren: I never thought I would watch videos about speedruns (not my jam), but that channel is something else.
<FreeFull>
fish 4.0b is a pretty much complete rewrite, so I wonder how many of the same issues it'd have
<OscarL>
interesting. Guess I could give it a spin over the weekend.
<OscarL>
meanwhile.... building in "Release" mode (vs "RelWithDebInfo"), took 5 and a half minutes, vs 12 of the latter.
<FreeFull>
They specifically moved from C++ to Rust, not sure how much of a problem it'll be for building it
<OscarL>
ah... then I'm out. I don't do rust stuff (nothing against rust, I just avoid packages that are too big, or have many dependencies, in general)
<OscarL>
FreeFull: we do have a more or less working rust 1.83 compiler.
<OscarL>
issue tends to be with crates not being particularly aware of Haiku, I think.
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<augiedoggie>
writing rust recipes is a hassle, i have several apps built but i don't feel like listing a hundred sources in the recipe
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* OscarL
looks at the "bat" recipe. augiedoggie was certainly not kidding.
<OscarL>
"SOURCE_URI_141" that'd be a: "Nah, dawg! You do it!" from me :-D
<Begasus[m]>
morning peeps
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<Begasus[m]>
listing the full SOURCE_URI's for rust recipes is overkill, the Cargo.toml file should take care of that iirc
<OscarL>
Morning Begasus[m]! ("man, he's up early" I thought... then saw it is 3:40 here, lol)
<Begasus>
Locking 52 packages to latest compatible versions (not too much crates involved)
<Begasus>
File for rust I refered to earlier is Cargo.lock, it holds the checksums already in there
<OscarL>
Begasus: too bad Python's requirement.txt, pyproject.toml, and the like, are not like that.
<OscarL>
Saw the pr for boost Begasus? I'm scratching my head about why I was getting an error now, but it worked OK for you (and the buildmasters) back on July.
<OscarL>
only thing that comes to mind is that maybe some of those _GNU_SOURCES vs _DEFAULT_SOURCES, etc., might have shaken something loose.
<OscarL>
right, that was my intention, to clean the reports at least.
<OscarL>
only tested 64 bits here, might do a 32 bits run tomorrow, I guess.
<janking>
good morning
<Begasus>
morning janking
<OscarL>
hello janking
<janking>
:)
<Begasus>
will merge, if anything pops up on 32bit I can still blame you :)
<OscarL>
fair.
<Begasus[m]>
did you have a look at the "gast" python PR?
<Begasus>
ps, got ICU76 and boost1.86 already here
<OscarL>
Begasus: just commented on the gast PR.
<Begasus>
+1
<OscarL>
I need to finish moving my older stuff from the (independent) 32 and 64 installs on HDD to the "centralized" SSD.
<OscarL>
Already finished moving my Haiku clone (with my branches, untracked files, etc). Need to do the same for the two haikuports clones I had (trying to not lose anything of value)
<Begasus>
congrats on the new one :)
<OscarL>
yeah, makes switching back and forth so much easier.
<OscarL>
Wish I know how to properly set it up eariler.
<OscarL>
s/know/knew/
<OscarL>
I was thinking of writting a forum post about it. Might help some newcomer.
<Begasus>
could be handy
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<OscarL>
it wasn't until I tried to modify HaikuPorter itself that I've found out about the undocumented options I ended up using :-D
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<OscarL>
I thought the ones on the HaikuPorts-sample.conf where the only ones available :-D
<Begasus>
hidden treasures :P
<Begasus[m]>
fish good to go OscarL?
<OscarL>
I think so. yes. (with the caveat that it doesn't makes it much better, only cleaner)
<OscarL>
(doesn't works better, but also doesn't works worse than before... same hangs on old an new revisions)
<Begasus[m]>
+1
<Begasus>
out for a bit
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<Begasus>
re
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<OscarL>
finnaly the 32 bits build of boost finished (took 2x the time than on 64 bits!)
<OscarL>
report.txt got cleared, good enough for today. Off to bed. See you around Begasus! Have a good one!
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<andreasdr[m]>
Hi there
<Begasus[m]>
Hi andreasdr
<andreasdr[m]>
Hi Begasus
<Begasus[m]>
how's it going?
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<Skipp_OSX_>
(you see the bullet points?) So it's gotta be our HTML renderer
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<Begasus[m]>
ah, as they are used in recipes and displayed in "HaikuDepot" application?
<Begasus[m]>
they got the wrong color?
<dovsienko>
scantysnax: "free" or "sysinfo"
<PulkoMandy>
We don't have an html renderer
<PulkoMandy>
it's probably haikudepot experimental textview replacement written by stippi then
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<PulkoMandy>
That supports some kind of markdown-like syntax
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX maybe you can use a unicode character to get a bullet point ?
<Skipp_OSX>
I'm getting the bullet point, just wrong color
<Begasus>
bbl
<Skipp_OSX>
I see now, this is something that is specific to HaikuDepot anyway...
<Skipp_OSX>
Bullet points were implemented specifically for this app, interesting.
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<Yoke>
Ye Boiii Haiku is installed on the laptop now :)
<Yoke>
I wonder if there's a way of getting the Fn shortcuts working, cause they don't seem to be doing anything at the moment
<Yoke>
just for reference I'm on a Dell latitude and for some things like changing the screen brightness you have to hold Fn and press the up and down directional keys
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<Skipp_OSX>
I got it, woot
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<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 1ad0f6ade6ec - via graphics: fix compiler warnings
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<Anarchos>
Yoke functions for volume +/- may work. For brightness no idea.
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<Yoke>
yep volume works, honestly it's not a massive thing that the brightness shortcut doesn't work
<Yoke>
I should be greatful that brightness works in the first place really
<Yoke>
cause I'm aware that it's not something that works for everyone
<augiedoggie>
if there is there a brightness slider in the Screen preferences the problem may just be that those keypresses aren't assigned to anything in Haiku
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<Yoke>
how would I map them?
<Yoke>
I've tried shortcuts if that's the right thing?
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<PulkoMandy>
yes, you need to define custom shortcuts invoking "brightness +1" and "brightness -1" for example (or larger or smaller value depending on how fast you want the brightness to change when you press it)
<PulkoMandy>
if Fn keys don't work you can assign the shortcut to some other key combination as well
<Yoke>
fn keys seem to work because I can do printscreen and that's on fn+End, the problem is i don't know what the Fn+arrow keys are mapped to
<Yoke>
I suppose I could map it to right ctrl?
<Yoke>
Wait shortcuts doesn't have any documentation yet?
<PulkoMandy>
In the shortcuts preferences I think you can just press the key combination you want and see if it registers or not
<PulkoMandy>
It depends on how the laptop manufacturer wired it
<Yoke>
it's a dell so I'm not putting any money on it being wired normally
<Yoke>
and I doubt dell's documentation will yeild anything useful
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<augiedoggie>
do you actually have a brightness slider in the Screen preferences app? otherwise playing with the shortcuts is meaningless
<Yoke>
I do yeah
<augiedoggie>
ok
<augiedoggie>
the Shortcuts user interface is awful, it's on my todo list to write a new one
<Yoke>
shortcuts are a poweruser thing, don't beat yourself up too much about it
<augiedoggie>
if you select the "Key" field while setting up a new shortcut it will try to read a keypress
<PulkoMandy>
there isn't really a "normal" way to handle these keys, it can be regular key events from the USB or PS/2 keyboard, or it cna be through ACPI. I'm not sure how complete our ACPI driver is to handle this
<PulkoMandy>
power users deserve a nice UI too :)
<augiedoggie>
there is no indication that the app is waiting for a key press while you have that "Key" field selected
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<waddlesplash>
what would be really nice if you could 1. type in the path text field, 2. it did autocomplete, 3. it handled $PATH
<waddlesplash>
and if all the shortcut fields were just "press shortcut" like the Qt shortcut widget
<waddlesplash>
oh, and if it handled default shortcuts more sensibly
<waddlesplash>
it would be neat if e.g. PrntScrn was in there rather than being hardcoded somewhere else
<augiedoggie>
yeah
<Yoke>
I can't get the autodetect to work
<augiedoggie>
you'll probably have to assign some other shortcut for it
<Yoke>
and as ever dell's documentation is absolutely useless
<Anarchos>
haiku-format changed a lot of indentation in a source file. Are there options that i missed ?
<Yoke>
correction, the autodetect doesn't work when I hold function maybe it's some higher level thing that changes the brightness than a simple shortcut
<PulkoMandy>
so your function keys are not handled as a normal keyboard, and would need a special driver (ACPI or otherwise). But you can set up a shortcut not using function keys if you want until then
<Yoke>
yeah, should probably just go about it that way
<Yoke>
I know next to nothing about coding (other than in basic)
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<Yoke>
YES FIGURED IT OUT but now my screen is painfuly bright
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<scanty>
Anarchos, the laptop is a Toshiba Satellite L755 S5107
<scanty>
it's a Sattelite, but I don't know the model number
<scanty>
oops, already said it was a sattelite.
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<Anarchos>
how come i got this error message ????
<Anarchos>
ERROR: commit f49aa17: email address noreply@github.com is not registered in your account, and you lack 'forge committer' permission.
<Anarchos>
remote: The following addresses are currently registered:
<Anarchos>
remote: sylvain_kerjean@hotmail.com
<Anarchos>
i only imported a rebase from github in my local repo
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<scanty>
testing my BNC. it usually cuts out after an hour or so, we'll see.
<scanty>
and it does so silently... it just stops responding to traffic.
<dovsienko>
scanty: to identify a PC/server, especially a brand name one, boot Linux and run "dmidecode", it will dump plenty of part, product and serial numbers
<scanty>
ah cool
<scanty>
thanks
<scanty>
charging it up now.
<dovsienko>
pretty useful for planning a RAM upgrade in a server that's running in a data centre far away
<scanty>
indeed
<scanty>
hmm have a thread in vision eating a whole cpu.
<Yoke>
how is vision eating a thread of (I'm guessing) a Zeon?
<scanty>
it is a xeon, and vision is eating a cpu
<scanty>
brb
<Anarchos>
scanty it is a bug of vision. Did you close a channel ?
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<scanty>
looks OK now.
<Anarchos>
scanty what did you do ? kill the thread ?
<scanty>
no, i just restarted vision
<Anarchos>
scanty before the thread went crazy, did you close a view in vision ?
<AlienSoldier>
scanty special multimedia key on my satellite also don't work for me.
<scanty>
Anarchos, i don't think so
<scanty>
AlienSoldier, right, everything else seems to work, though
<Anarchos>
scanty here, vision goes crazy if i close a channel
<scanty>
that is very strange. vision is very good, but i think it has some deep seated bugs that are very hard to find, like the issue with my bnc
<scanty>
ui could use some polish, too.
* Anarchos
did a rebase on his github fork, imported it in local repo, and now gerrit refuses my push :(
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<Anarchos>
scanty what annoys me are 1) this thread 100% bug 2) in preferences if you select a network somewhere, it is always set to default in next view...
<scanty>
that was the first time i ever encountered it.
<Anarchos>
scanty as i said, it happens 1/2 when i close some view. And those thread have really funny names :)
<scanty>
yes, they are very clever
<scanty>
falkon is another one that eats a whole cpu
<scanty>
and with iceweasel, it's lovely, but the cursor bug....
<Yoke>
you definately need more than 4 gigs for iceweasel, lord that was not fun
<Yoke>
talking ram
<scanty>
yeah, it's pretty heavy, but it's also very fast
<Yoke>
that's true
<Yoke>
and there's a functional AD blocker (that works on YT)
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<Anarchos>
scanty sorry i crashed
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<scanty>
Anarchos, no worries
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<Anarchos>
i need help with that when i try to push to review.haiku-os.org : ERROR: commit f49aa17: email address noreply@github.com is not registered in your account, and you lack 'forge committer' permission
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<scanty>
hi OscarL
* OscarL
reads the logs... "We have dmidecode on HaikuPorts, no need of Linux for that!" :-P
<dovsienko>
Anarchos: are the author and the committer e-mails correct in every commit that you are trying to push?
<OscarL>
Hello scanty!
<dovsienko>
OscarL: pardon my ignorance
<OscarL>
dovsienko: all good dovsienko! just pulling yout leg a bit :-)
<OscarL>
s/yout/your/
<Anarchos>
dovsienko no cause i imported a merge with the haiku github repo into my local
<OscarL>
Yoke: for Iceweasel, uBlock Origin should work (I have only used it on FF on other OSes, mind you).
<Yoke>
it works
<Yoke>
I've pretty much switched to Iceweasel, other than for discord.
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<Yoke>
ok for some reason I didn't expect alt+tab to work
<OscarL>
Mmm, trying to add a Volume to the "ignore list" of QuickLaunch... and the Settings dialog is set to "always on top", for some reason, obscuring the open panel. Will have to remember to report this to humdinger.
<OscarL>
Wish it had a "only query on the boot disk" toggle, instead of having to add a lot of partitions.
<Yoke>
quick question, is it possible to hide partitions?, because it feels kinda wierd to see the EFI boot partition in the mount menu
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<Anarchos>
Yoke you can modify the bootmenu with BootManager
<OscarL>
that's not what he's asking.
<Anarchos>
OscarL oh sorry, i misread.
<OscarL>
np :-)
<OscarL>
Yoke: not that I'm aware of.
<OscarL>
s/not/none/
<Yoke>
shame, makes sense it's just gonna show any partitions on the disk
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<OscarL>
Yoke: regarding your keys for controlling brigtness, on Linux there's an "acpi_listen" tool that can be used to see what ACPI event (if any) those type of "Fn" keycombos produce.
<OscarL>
not sure you'll be able to do much with that info on Haiku, but at least you could confirm that those keys need to be read via ACPI.
<Yoke>
the fact they work on linux and windows but not here pretty much confirms that they're ACPI
<OscarL>
we have an "acpi_call" command on "haiku_extras" that I think could be used to do some experiments (running ACPI procs), but I'm yet to learn to use it.
<OscarL>
Yoke: yeah, even on a netbook from 2011/2012 I have, some of those Fn-keys are sent via PS/2, some via ACPI (and on older kernels, via a custom "ClassmatePC Keyboard" driver).
<Yoke>
honestly this might be doing the same concidering this laptop is from 2012, although it never needed a driver
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<Yoke>
it's a Dell Latitude 6430u i5
<Yoke>
does anyone know of somewhere I could get my hands on the sounds from BeOS? I can't find anything on internet archive that has the sounds
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<OscarL>
So nice to be able to just clone an install, before switching it to nightlies. Took like just 3 minutes in total.
<OscarL>
(from start of clone to booting new nightly)
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<OscarL>
Yoke: only seeing "BeBeep.wav" and "BeStartup.wav" under /beos/etc/sounds (on a BeOS R5 install)
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<Yoke>
wierd i saw a yt vid earlier that had way more
<Yoke>
maybe they were using r4?
<OscarL>
dunno.
<Yoke>
thanks for looking
<OscarL>
np. maybe they where using the "Pro" edition (from Be), or one of the "comunity remixes", like BeOS5PEMaxEdition, or something.
<Yoke>
that's possible, just found the system sounds contest, I'll have a look at those and if i don't like them I'll keep hunting for the BeOS sounds
<OscarL>
I can upload the two I've mentioned, if you want them.
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<OscarL>
weird, I was able to download (and compared the .zip to make sure they didn't tamppered with it. was OK)
<Yoke>
thought so
<Yoke>
it's my network
<Yoke>
this is why falkon was such a pain to use for me, no matter what provider you're with they allways have the most random sites blocked
<Yoke>
thankfully using a VPN seems to mess with it and let me bypass said block
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<Yoke>
anyway, enough of me ranting, thank you for uploading those
<OscarL>
np :-)
<Yoke>
damn it I can't decide on what sounds to use now
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<Skipp_OSX>
OscarL did you ever check if the Tracker right-click on Desktop crashing bug was fixed by my shortcuts refactor?
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<Skipp_OSX>
I suppose I could try it but I'd have to slow down the CPU to tell
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<OscarL>
Skipp_OSX: I noticed it was way less crashy on nightlies (before I reverted to beta5). I just got a new nigthlies install today, so I'll be able to test things further, and report back.
<OscarL>
(need to remember to remove my "button-debounce" input_server filter)
<Skipp_OSX>
afaik my patch is still not applied on r1b5 and the proposed patch to do so was not included because you said it crashed still.
<OscarL>
yes.
<OscarL>
I saw no point in forcing an update for everyone given that adding just that particular change wasn't enough to avoid crashes, AFAICT.
<Skipp_OSX>
still it is possible that my shortcuts refactor has addressed the further issues, That is untested.
<OscarL>
will do some tests RN on nightly.
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah it's fine to not include in r1b5 imho
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<Skipp_OSX>
either way it's not a release blocking bug. It's been a bug for several releases before r1b5 and did not hold up release.
<OscarL>
k, removed my input filter (that one helped avoid some crashes by filtering out consecutive button events in a too short period)
<Skipp_OSX>
I see you've built crash resistance to this bug
<OscarL>
it was/is way too frequent for me to not try and develop some countermeasures :-D
<OscarL>
first test... machine-gunning the right-click button all over the Desktop, and a couple of open Tracker windows...
<OscarL>
No crashes so far on hrev58442...
<OscarL>
and also not noticieable "menu weirdness"
<OscarL>
(as menu appearing WAY off from where the cursor is)
<Skipp_OSX>
by menu weirdness I assume you mean the Desktop drill down menu disappearing and reappearing
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<Skipp_OSX>
before you had said that it seemed fine initially but you kept at it and experienced crashes later on. Let me go and double check what you said.
<OscarL>
like tha, but also the whole Context menu just appeareaing where you clicked like... 3 to 6 "clicks ago".
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<Skipp_OSX>
it must have finally gotten unstuck
<Skipp_OSX>
I haven't fixed the underlying issue and well the underlying issue has been a problem in so many places and I've had to work around them.
<Skipp_OSX>
For example you may recall the the wifi list in network preferences crashing before r1b2 release. That is the same underlying issue, removing menu items and adding them back is buggy.
<Skipp_OSX>
I could implement Hiding and Showing menu items I suppose since there is currently no way to do that other than to remove and add them back.
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<OscarL>
compared to previous behavior... (sorry for the poor description, I'm not that good with words, less in English): seems like context menus only appear if you really mean to invoke them. And that's a good thing.
<Skipp_OSX>
Of course that would still be yet another work around for the underlying bug, you should be able to remove menu items and add them back without so much fuss.
<OscarL>
before it felt like it was ready to spring like one of those clown-in-a-box at the tiniest provocation.
<Skipp_OSX>
BeOS R5 had a 1px boundary on pop-up menus perhaps we should also implement that. I know it's a boundary region because if you position your mouse in the right hand side of the screen to make the menu appear under your mouse and not on the menu edge it does activate the submenu, but if you open in the middle of the screen it does not.
<OscarL>
(I'd still like GUIs that react on mouse up and not on mouse down, but that's a lost battle in BeOS/Haiku)
<Skipp_OSX>
That is to open the submenu beos forces you to move your mouse right a pixel first unless you're close to the screen edge (meaning they only half implemented the features)
<Skipp_OSX>
My appeals have fallen on hostile ears, humdinger and waddlesplash shut that down.
<Skipp_OSX>
I agree with you, in fact BeOS was designed to work with mouse up not down to allow drag and drop.
<OscarL>
Doing slower right-clicks on desktop... (trying to not move the mouse at all), I can sometimes see it showinging the "Desktop->" drilldown menu for a split second, hide it, and re-draw it.
<Skipp_OSX>
We do drag and drop creatively while still activating on down
<OscarL>
It doesn't happens always.
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<OscarL>
The fact that I can open Desktop with the right-button feels weird.
<Skipp_OSX>
That is because in the current Haiku it always removes the menu and re-adds it on open and sometimes you see that sometimes you don't depending on the timing.
<Skipp_OSX>
in my shortcuts refactor that should be fixed as I only remove the menu if it's attached to a different menu.
<OscarL>
I mean... I assosiate secondary-click with context menu (or dnd operations). Why it acts like primary button then if I use it on the open Context menu?
<OscarL>
bbiaw.
<Skipp_OSX>
the reason is that we almost always accept all buttons not just primary button unless there is an action on the secondary button.
<Skipp_OSX>
cite me Tog of Fitt otherwise I'm not buying it.
<Skipp_OSX>
Tog or Fitt
<Yoke>
the fuck did I just walk in on ('scuse the french)
<Skipp_OSX>
bug talk
<Yoke>
ah
<Skipp_OSX>
We are loose not strict on button clicks, I don't see how that violates POLA it's a you thing not a thing thing
<Skipp_OSX>
meaning it's your learned behavior not intuition
<Skipp_OSX>
but idk all that said I could live with being more strict with the buttons we accept in certain situations like this one.
<Skipp_OSX>
Ideologically I'm against it but practically I could go either way
<PulkoMandy>
Least astonishment is more about self-consistency, something like "the secondary button should always open a popup menu and never do anything else"
<PulkoMandy>
"should open a popup menu if available and do the same thing as the primary button" makes it a bit unpredicatble depending on wether a menu is available or not
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah that's the same as be strict not loose
<Skipp_OSX>
it's a similar argument for the keyboard shortcuts should we require you to type exactly the modifiers required or do we allow you to add additional modifiers if not used by something else. Example if you command+C to copy, you can do command+alt+c it will also copy. If you are strict you would not allow that, but we are loose, we allow extra modifiers to be present.
<Skipp_OSX>
err command+control+C I mean
<adrian_>
waddlesplash: ooo the haiku laptop arrived early
<adrian_>
waddlesplash: time to figure out how to dual boot freebsd and haiku
<Skipp_OSX>
alright what laptop?
<adrian_>
an old lenovo t440s
<Skipp_OSX>
oh that should work well
<adrian_>
yup
<Skipp_OSX>
those old Lenovos are quite compatible also good Linux laptops
<adrian_>
yup
<Yoke>
adrian_; I am jealous, I saw a T440 come up for sale localy and i didn't pull the trigger on it
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<OscarL>
(back. yeah... not sure what's so "pseudoscientific" about striving for consistency.)
<Skipp_OSX>
not backed up by interface design research
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<OscarL>
maybe, but "nonsense"? bs.
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<OscarL>
any way... GUI usability is highly subjective. Otherwise we wouldn't have the spatial vs navigator split :-)
<waddlesplash>
adrian_: Haiku includes a basic chainloader for BIOS
<waddlesplash>
install it with BootManager
<OscarL>
also... in any case.... haven't managed to crash Tracker yet on nigthlies, so... thanks a bunch for your work.
<waddlesplash>
very basic menu but it does the job
<OscarL>
^^Skipp_OSX
<Skipp_OSX>
but crashes are more objective
<Skipp_OSX>
I am reluctant to change behavior that has been working one way for decades somebody out there is going to be mad if you change it.
<OscarL>
(No crashes so far while testing on VMware... let's see if VirtualBox behaves now aswell)
<Skipp_OSX>
right-click to open then right-click again to select
<Skipp_OSX>
oh yeah I got it you just gotta be quick
<OscarL>
As long as it doesn't crashes.... doesn't bothers me, though. :-D
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah much better than crashing
<Skipp_OSX>
hmmm not a bug on BeOS bc it ignores the click even on a different window
<Skipp_OSX>
maybe that's why
<OscarL>
speaking of things that BeOS does differently... I was never able to find out why "double-click" works when using KeyCursor on BeOS, but on Haiku, it works on some apps, but not on Tracker (and not on windows' title bars).
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<OscarL>
Gotta bolt. See you around folks!
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<adrian_>
waddlesplash: do i install freebsd or haiku first
<adrian_>
waddlesplash: what partition layout should i do?
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<AlienSoldier>
Skipp_OSX you worked on the deskcalc app if i remember?
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah a while back
<Skipp_OSX>
well off and on sure I have
<AlienSoldier>
Skipp_OSX i noticied something off. if i type in it and stop to put the focus with the mouse on something else (let say a tracer window) and then come back to the number and operator i was entering in descalc, the new stuff apprear on the left instead of on the right following what i previously typed.
<AlienSoldier>
*tracker window
<AlienSoldier>
Skipp_OSX humm seem ok in a deskcalc window, my problem is with the replican on my desktop.
<AlienSoldier>
yup, creating a new replican also do this.
<AlienSoldier>
work always fine as long as it is in a window form.
<Skipp_OSX>
seems like the focus on click needs a bit of work in replicant form
<AlienSoldier>
i was thinking it was the same exact code when it was a replicant.
<AlienSoldier>
perhaps it affect other app in replican form, will have to check that.
<AlienSoldier>
and if i "backspace" what i initially typed never get ereased.
<AlienSoldier>
*earased
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