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<MsInput>
so the first thing I've figured out immediately by trying to compile the first "Hello World" program from the 2024 (3rd) Edition of Bjarne's Programming: Principles and Practice book... is that "import std;" is apparently some wild new thing. This page https://cgit.haiku-os.org/buildtools has a mention of gcc-14.1.0, but I'm not sure that's meant to be a standard or not. I found a post
<MsInput>
(sorry that turned out to be a lot longer than I thought)
<MsInput>
TLDR: what's the most recent C++ ISO standard that I should use when aiming to write a Haiku application?
<waddlesplash>
the default compiler (on x86_64 anyway) is GCC 13.2 or 13.3
<waddlesplash>
whatever upstream documentation says about its support for C++ standards should be true on Haiku as well
<MsInput>
okay cool, that's super helpful thanks
<MsInput>
Bjarne says "The code for this edition of the book uses contemporary C++, C++20 (plus a bit of C++23). If your compiler does not support C++20 [C++20], get a new compiler." lol
<MsInput>
I was not expecting to find that compiling Hello World would lead to immediate errors and hot takes from the language creator, but here I am
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<Begasus[m]>
morning peeps
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<MonniTheCat>
morning Begasus
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<Begasus[m]>
morning Mika Lindqvist
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<BrunoSpr>
hello all
<BrunoSpr>
shortcut for going into KDL handy someone?
<BrunoSpr>
Alt-SysReq-D
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<Begasus>
I guess he found it? :)
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<Anarchos>
hello
<MonniTheCat>
Begasus: Most of us get there without pressing any specific keys ;)
<Anarchos>
Begasus: i was able to pass data from bootloader to kernel :)
<phschafft>
MonniTheCat: haha.
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<Begasus>
Hi Anarchos BrunoSpr
<Begasus>
hi phschafft :) (didn't see you at first) :)
<Begasus>
again progress Anarchos, nice :)
<BrunoSpr>
hi Begasus hi Anarchos hi phschafft
* phschafft
waves and gets the cookie jar, offering it to everyone in the channel.
<Begasus>
thanks! :D
<BrunoSpr>
alt+sysreg+d did not work!sysreg is option-key/windowsKey?
<BrunoSpr>
how to mute the touchpad, which i often accidently touch?
<BrunoSpr>
2 questions, sorry
<Habbie>
sysrq is not option/windowskey
<BrunoSpr>
ah, ok which is it? the print key?
* phschafft
nods.
<Habbie>
on my full size keyboard it's alt-printscreen
<BrunoSpr>
ah ok yes it is the print one thanks
<Begasus>
for the touchpad, look at preferences input iirc
<BrunoSpr>
ah ok Begasus, I have to slide the sensitiveness to 0
<Begasus>
yeah, don't remember fully , but iirc it was there :)
<BrunoSpr>
ah ok nice... thanks
<BrunoSpr>
there is no on/off button... touchpad still working! Hm, strange!
<BrunoSpr>
Ok it does not disturb my typing at least! but the mouse is still moving... ok, makes sense!
<BrunoSpr>
the print button is not reachable because I have to use the "fn" button too, how to do that?
<BrunoSpr>
rb
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<Habbie>
on some laptops, there's an alternative combination (i know bruno is gone)
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<Anarchos>
Begasus: yes, but i could'nt go further because my daughter needed help on 23 conics exercices :)
<Begasus>
'lo Habbie, long time since you're active in the morning :)
<Begasus>
kids Anarchos :)
<Habbie>
hi :)
<Begasus>
ok, there is a cmd time, but it's not in /system/bin, part of coreutils it seems, but how do I point to it in a recipe? (can't use "cmd:time" - not found)
<Begasus>
it looks like there isn't a cmd time (although it "works" in Terminal ... weird
<phschafft>
some shells have a buildin 'time'.
<Habbie>
try 'help time'
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<Habbie>
i don't think there's a "time" in coreutils
<phschafft>
the idea is that the shell has some better idea what is going on, so it's generally better to implement it in the shell.
<Begasus>
OK that worked, but packaging would probably involve renaming the binary not to conflict
<Begasus[m]>
phschafft how does that work on Debian when you want to use time from bash? :)
<Begasus[m]>
checked on Arch/Fedora/Gentoo, can't see a binary name change there
<Habbie>
Begasus[m], rename it why?
<Habbie>
yeah
<Habbie>
if you want to use the time from bash, you type time
<Begasus[m]>
well, the binary build is called "time" also
<Habbie>
yep
<Habbie>
this is fine
<Begasus[m]>
so how would Terminal know which one to use?
<Habbie>
Terminal knows nothing
<Habbie>
bash decides what to use
<Habbie>
and bash uses its builtin if you call 'time'
<Habbie>
and /usr/bin/time if you call /usr/bin/time
<Habbie>
oh
<Habbie>
also \time to not use the builtin
<Begasus>
ah, that last one worked
<Begasus>
without it just uses the one from bash
<Habbie>
ack
<Habbie>
good
<Begasus>
k, let me draft a recipe quicky :)
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<Begasus>
grabbing time-1.9-1-x86_64.hpkg and moving it to /Share/haikuports/packages/time-1.9-1-x86_64.hpkg :)
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<Habbie>
nice
<phschafft>
Begasus[m]: you can use the full path, you can prefix with 'command', or you can force the shell into a context in that this happens.
<phschafft>
but there is nothing Debian specific about that.
<phschafft>
it's all about your shell.
<phschafft>
and it is a similar topic as with other buildins that have fallbacks: test, printf, ...
<Begasus>
OK, that worked for sox's tests :) TIME synth channels=2 samples=1e7 0.28s
<danlopw[m]>
<Begasus> "grabbing time-1.9-1-x86_64...." <- nice man
<Begasus>
thanks danlopw[m], anyone could do this, probably no one needed it yet :)
<Begasus>
tests with no errors now for sox :)
<Begasus>
k, let's run this on 32bit
<Begasus_32>
grabbing time-1.9-1-x86_gcc2.hpkg and moving it to /Share/haikuports/packages/time-1.9-1-x86_gcc2.hpkg
<Begasus>
goodie ... checking tests
<Begasus>
bugger, parse error on tests for 32bit time ... can live with that for now :)
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<Begasus[m]>
there ... PR created
<Begasus[m]>
tests are fine on secondary arch
<Begasus[m]>
doggies :)
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<Begasus[m]>
bugger, buildmasters feel so fast now
<MonniTheCat>
<Begasus[m]> "bugger, buildmasters feel so..." <- Need to add some snooze for them to feel slower or they are just slow enough?
<Begasus>
nah, I used to keep up on speed here, not anymore now :P
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<Begasus>
hi zard
<zard>
Hello Begasus :)
<Begasus[m]>
k, obligated ones are done for now :)
<zard>
+1 there Begasus[m] :)
<Begasus[m]>
thnx :)
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<Begasus[m]>
should keep my local branch on par a bit more often ;)
<MonniTheCat>
<Begasus> "nah, I used to keep up on..." <- Perks of getting older and having other distractions...
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<BrunoSpr>
hello all, I cannot find the settings file for Dockbert! Any idea?
<Begasus>
MonniTheCat ... perks for not being able to run on bare metal :P
<Begasus>
no idea BrunoSpr, I don't use it
<BrunoSpr>
NP
<BrunoSpr>
np
<MonniTheCat>
Begasus: Some hardware is just too new for Haiku...
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<MsInput>
I actually have a feeling my nvidia rtx3090 is probably not gonna work with Haiku, I haven't tried yet
<Begasus[m]>
if you followed the forum I guess you know the answer to that msinput :) (doesn't mean it won't boot with it though)
<Begasus[m]>
probably falls back to VESA, but that isn't so bad either
<MsInput>
yeah I did a search on the forum yesterday and it seems likely. vesa isn't the worst but if I'm gonna run vesa I might as well stick to running in a VM for now
<MsInput>
I have enough ram and cores to have a pretty sweet vm tbh
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<Begasus>
same here, just can't get it up to speed MsInput
<dovsienko>
MsInput: try a few video cards, including the one built into the CPU, and see which ones are in the problem space and which ones are in the solution space
<MsInput>
I do have one pci slot free that I could probably chuck an older gpu in without compromising my airflow tooooo much
<MsInput>
but I need to be careful because the rtx3090 is a beast and while it's not the current top of line, it was not cheap and replacing it will be not cheap lol
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<dovsienko>
MsInput: you may be overthinking it. on one of my Linux PCs the best graphics upgrade in years was taking an heavy two-slot nVidia 512MB GPU out and using the CPU graphics
<dovsienko>
that immediately solved the screen tearing problem
<MsInput>
well I like to play demanding games so swapping out the 3090 for the sake of bare-metal haiku is just... not realistic for my needs :) it's fine though because haiku runs amazing in a vm so far, much better than I expected. Actually why I'm so interested because it seems like something I can viably have fun with
<MsInput>
meanwhile on my fedora install I can play Horizon Zero Dawn Remaster at max quality via the proton compatibility layer. what a time to be alive lol
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<MonniTheCat>
Running with VMware makes a lot more sense with newer hardware as it doesn't slow much too much and the VMware video driver can go pretty high in resolution, so works even with 4k displays...
<MonniTheCat>
Only thing I hate with VMware is that detecting all the hard disks takes several seconds as it needs to scan all the virtual SATA ports...
<augiedoggie>
yeah, i disabled sata in my VM because of that
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<MonniTheCat>
I mostly use SCSI emulation in VMware, but I haven't finetuned all the settings yet...
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<MsInput>
MonniTheCat: yeah I'm using qemu on fedora and I can scale the resolution pretty high and use up to 32 bit color, it's quite nice
<MsInput>
and since I have 32 "virtual cores" (I think it's really 16) I generally can offer several to the vm along with a good chunk of RAM, so haiku is really happy in that little sandbox
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<MsInput>
happier than a default debian 12 install, I've noticed, at least in my limited sample size of 1 of each lol
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<waddlesplash>
anybody here know what filesystem or disk image format BeOS DR8 (pre-PR1) used?
<waddlesplash>
PR1 and up use an Apple partitioning format and BFS, that's readable by Haiku's BFS driver built in big-endian mode
<waddlesplash>
but DR8 apparently uses something else. the "file" command can't recognize it either (it recognizes the PR1 image)
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Wasn't there something about a database based file system, which didn't work well?
<waddlesplash>
possible, but can anything read that?
<B2IA>
(AGMS) No idea, never seen it in use or evidence of it. But then I don't have anything that old.
<waddlesplash>
I looked at it in a hex editor, the files are definitely all there
<waddlesplash>
but what the disk image format is I don't know
<waddlesplash>
what I really want are the header files
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Maybe there's an old BeOS newsletter that describes it.
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<waddlesplash>
in addition to being on the disk image it appears these may be contained in a CodeWarrior cross development package also on the disk image, according to the documentation
<waddlesplash>
the file should be called "BeDR8.sea.hqx"
<waddlesplash>
I do see that string in here ... maybe I can try to extract just that one file
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Sounds like a Macintosh compressed file.
<waddlesplash>
but then I need something that can unpack StuffIt files
<waddlesplash>
not sure what can do that either
<B2IA>
(AGMS) I have Stuffit 1.51 or something like that for MacOS 7, somewhere around here.
<waddlesplash>
ah there's a freeware StuffIt expander
<waddlesplash>
maybe that will work
<B2IA>
(AGMS) hqx was binhex, sea was self extracting archive (an executable).
<waddlesplash>
ok, let's see if I can extract the .sea.hqx from this archive
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) Hmmm, run Windows 2000 in a VM, run Amiga Forever inside that, run SheepSaver (the Mac emulator for Amiga) inside that...
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<waddlesplash>
appears "macunpack" Linux tool can read it
<B2IA>
(AGMS) That's going to be even more obscure for emulation!
<mickenx>
Hi
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<waddlesplash>
AGMS: no, the repo includes C tools for working with old BeOS files
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Sounds useful then.
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<mickenx>
I have issues with my 4k monitor.. the gpu cannot drive 4k and is somehow stuck in 1920x1080 and doesn't change modes. ( intel gpu, macmini i7).. modeswitching works if connected to 1080p monitor. With the 4k monitor ,, if I try to change mode Haiku changes but the hardware doesn't.. and even if I do use a 1080p mode , I get a divided screen starting in the middle and then wraps around to the left
<mickenx>
with nightly from yesterday
<mickenx>
uefi
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Sorry, no idea about that. Maybe a video mode choice in the boot menu may work, though I don't think 4K is listed there.
<mickenx>
I tried to google search edid , but I only found my old questions :D
<mickenx>
in IRC logs
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Or maybe your monitor doesn't report video modes correctly.
<mickenx>
The list of modes seems valid
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Or your HDMI cable is older and only does lower frequency signals?
<mickenx>
.. the problem is that the GPU cannor handle 4k uhd
<mickenx>
the cable is fine
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Even can't do 4K when working in Macintosh mode? Then you'll have to stick with 1080p.
<mickenx>
It works using framebuffer ( safe mode ) and with the 1080p as described)
<mickenx>
* with the 1080p monitor
<B2IA>
(AGMS) And that's Intel built-in video, which Haiku supports fairly well.
<mickenx>
yes I know that
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) How well does it work if booting as a Macintosh?
<mickenx>
somehow the timing is wrong .. and probably other stuff .. when Haiku is reading EDID
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Presumably it runs in 1080p, and the monitor can display that?
<mickenx>
.. It works just fine booting with 1080p
<mickenx>
on big monitor as expected
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Does the Mac boot tell you the display refresh frequency that works? 60hz or other?
<mickenx>
The monitor syncs at 60hz
<B2IA>
(AGMS) See if you can set the same frequence in 1080p in Haiku.
<mickenx>
yes tried that
<mickenx>
no difference
<mickenx>
The hardware doesn't react to any screen changes when connected to 4k moinotor
<waddlesplash>
AGMS: seems BeOS R5 x86 can't read PPC OFS
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Hmmm, no idea what's going on with that monitor. Is there only one HDMI output on the computer?
<mickenx>
yes
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Well, plug in the smaller screen. Or boot as a Macintosh and run Haiku in a virtual machine.
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) waddlesplash, is the disk image small enough to send via Internet? I can boot the PPC machine and run BeShare on it.
<mickenx>
AGMS: Yes .. but I am tempted to do some debugging ..
<mickenx>
and safe mode video is ok
<mickenx>
hardware not changing modes because of monitor is kind of odd. It should be possible to change to lower modes
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Any settings on the monitor that may help (HDMI compatibility mode etc).
<mickenx>
(works with the other monitor) .. but ok .. will investigate further
<mickenx>
could be AV setting
<mickenx>
good suggestion
<B2IA>
(AGMSPPC) Yes, the ancient PPC Macintosh still boots in to BeOS. Which much disk whining.
<B2IA>
(AGMSPPC) Though it only has 700MB free, so any disk image would have to be small.
<B2IA>
(AGMSPPC) But then things from back then would be small.
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) Time for dinner, talk to you later waddlesplash if you need help with that OFS image.
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* Jochwehg_
looks @smalltalkman__
<Jochwehg_>
Twin LOw
* Jochwehg_
wehg-ed id Joch, e. G. eingetragene Gastfreundschaft (signed Hospitality?)
* Jochwehg_
goes Jochwehg then
Jochwehg_ is now known as jochwehg
* jochwehg
means Joch from Joga, Yoga and where we habe A. Schmidt: Finnigan's Wehg.
<jochwehg>
Jochbein, das Joch, da there joint on the shoulder, HAIKU in this, awe!
<jochwehg>
Tasty i. e.
<jochwehg>
RUINS <earky>, listening to some sound sounds I can handle tonight.
* jochwehg
remotely -has GMT+1
<phschafft>
Everything ok?
<jochwehg>
endlos gut - all good I might want to say almost.
<jochwehg>
Thx f d asin
<jochwehg>
eh
<jochwehg>
asking,
* jochwehg
dazzled by word in the free space of HAIKU's big room
<jochwehg>
Hi, +nt, do like to specify what that means to me?
* jochwehg
too lazy to look up in mode if that is okay,
<jochwehg>
does +n mean that I am allowed to change /nick