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<skirst>
anyone have any tips on why I/O is so abysmally slow with b3 on VirtualBox? i've exhausted my google-fu
<skirst>
it's an efi install (cloned from my metal install) if that makes any difference. vmware player works great with the same install, but i can't get sound to work (opensound installed). rebooting for quick build and tests sucks butts.
<waddlesplash>
it's always been abysmally slow on virtualbox
<waddlesplash>
using 1 core and disabling APIC helps
<skirst>
so... builds on vmware, deploy via ssh over to virtualbox, test there. i need sound lol. this will work for now.
<skirst>
my app makes media_server barf the moment i ask it to do anything on vmware. something with the opensound drivers. haven't done a deep dive yet
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<skirst>
err, rather, media_addon_server
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<rennj>
opensound works fine here on vmware, you have like 3 choices for soundcard in vmware
<rennj>
#sound.virtualdev = "sb16"
<rennj>
#sound.virtualdev = "hdaudio"
<rennj>
sound.virtualdev = "es1371"
<rennj>
fix your vmx file
<rennj>
i dont think the vmware gui allows those types of tweaks..so it has to be done in the .vmx file
<nephele>
I was there a bit in the morning but not really any activity
<rennj>
video chat?
<rennj>
txt chat without video is better
<rennj>
i dont know who you are ASL stuff..video chat would rune the anonymity
<countryboy>
rennj: which app do you run to make a video chat ?
<rennj>
the elephant man is going to have a bad time on video chat
<rennj>
i dont do video chat
<countryboy>
boh
<rennj>
i did video chat long long time ago..like mid 90's with cuuseeme
<countryboy>
and icq ?
<rennj>
sgi and sun boxes had video chat features over isdn suckage
<rennj>
i did video over beos also
<pinaraf_>
FYI, I just installed Haiku on an old eeepc for a friend… AMD C-60, 1GB of (soldered) RAM… works perfectly including WLAN, I installed LibreOffice and Calligra for word processing, quite a functional system
<rennj>
i recall having to get that to work on sun boxes, play around with it
<mmu_man>
lol, /. think it's spam, bleh
<rennj>
heh
<rennj>
why i want to check the comments
<rennj>
it sad state of affairs is it not, when communication breakdown
<rennj>
oldman yells at clouds! schematics/datasheets!
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<rennj>
technology is a harsh mistress
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<nephele>
You don't need to use the video chat obviously, personally I don't mind that much, my real name is already known anyway :)
<nephele>
(so i'm not really anonymous here)
<countryboy>
ok, installed icq new ... under linux mint ...
<countryboy>
to chat with me : 709696089
<rennj>
i chat with right here
<countryboy>
ok
<ffog>
i found the unix server binaries for cu-seeme once hah
<ffog>
somewhere on hotline or so
<rennj>
hotline rocked
<ffog>
i was used to napster so the first time i saw it i was like wow
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<waddlesplash>
anyone here run Haiku on machines with AGP hardware?
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<vazub[m]>
wow, these would be old as hell
<waddlesplash>
well, latest would be mid-'00s
<countryboy>
hellish => fantasies xD
<mmu_man>
hmm I think maybe one here, not sure
<mmu_man>
oh no it's PCIe
<mmu_man>
well my BP6 but it's not plugged in
<PulkoMandy>
I have an AGP machine here but not sure I have an Haiku install on it at the moment. Could do one if needed
<waddlesplash>
well, supposedly this gfxcpy stuff was for AGP hardware, so would be interesting to test if the patch deleting it regresses performance badly
<PulkoMandy>
do you have a benchmark I can run? because this 20 year old machine will feel slow either way :>
<waddlesplash>
it's used for all copies to the screen
<waddlesplash>
so just "does it feel slower" is the real test I think...
<waddlesplash>
we could add timing inside the loop I suppose
<PulkoMandy>
I'm not good at telling the difference between slow and slower :)
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<countryboy>
freedom
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<countryboy>
w the microkernel ...
<humdinger>
any idea why building Haiku fails for me? -> http://ix.io/3Cqd
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<humdinger>
nope. still no go. :\
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* humdinger
waves
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<lorglas>
hi
<lorglas>
does one use robinhood webserver with php handler under haiku?
<mrentropyvcs>
Does NVME storage work on Haiku?
<bbjimmy_64>
I use lighttpd with php under haiku
<nephele>
yes, nvme should work
<nephele>
waddlesplash implemented support for it
<mrentropyvcs>
Thanks, nephele!
<bbjimmy_64>
lorglas I use lighttpd with php under haiku
<bitigchi>
Hi folks. After the latest nightly update I am getting this error under QEMU, it lights up until the last light and gives this: qemu-x86_64-softmmu: warning: global PIIX4_PM.disable_s3=1 not used
<bitigchi>
Any ideas?
<lorglas>
bbjimmy, i see it. thanks for your answer. i ask, because i have old tutorials to use robinhood with phphandler. the server itself running, but only the phphandler doesn't work perfect.
<lorglas>
php4 which use from robinhood is also working
<lorglas>
but only the connection between both doesn't work
<bbjimmy_64>
That is why I am using lighttpd
<bbjimmy_64>
but now I am using php7.4.16
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<MultiTasker>
hi
<MultiTasker>
new here. can someone guide me?
<MultiTasker>
the list of users that I see on right are online right?
<nephele>
Yes
<bparker_>
MultiTasker: that would depend on how your specific client works
<bparker_>
we don't know what you're using
<bparker_>
and 'online' doesn't necessarily mean 'anywhere near the computer'
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<LegendaryAmerican>
Threw it into kdl. Blacklisted atheros and atheroswifi.. put beta 2 drivers in user space.. and put blacklist on the b3 drivers. Both of them as just blacklisting one doesn't improve anything at all.. and went to acquire a wpa wifi.. and it kicks me into kdl
<LegendaryAmerican>
How can I log those kdl messages
<LegendaryAmerican>
Exit throws me back into kdl. And yes. Of all things wpa_supplicant is having a fit.
<PulkoMandy>
why cast the compare function? just keep that as it was?
<Skipp_OSX>
Axel wants me to change the arguments from const void* to const BMenuItem*
<PulkoMandy>
not for the compare function, I think? but for the public API you are adding to BMenu only
<LegendaryAmerican>
So that tells me it's not the atheros driver but the wpa_supplicant for beta 3 is borked.
<Skipp_OSX>
right but if I change the BMenu arguments to const BMenuItem* then try to pass the compare function in I get the error listed on the patch set
<Skipp_OSX>
if I change the Menu::SortItems() parameters I mean
<lorglas>
bbjimmy64, what you make in the configfile from lighttpd with server.username and groupname
<Skipp_OSX>
BMenu::SortItems()
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<Skipp_OSX>
no matching function for call to `BList::SortItems(int (*&)(const BMenuItem *, const BMenuItem *))'
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<Skipp_OSX>
I'm looking to see if there's a way to cast compare function arguments but I don't see one
<waddlesplash>
again it's just a cast
<waddlesplash>
you cast it just like you cast anything else
<PulkoMandy>
it's hard to do on function pointers if you don't use typedefs still
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah I was thinking a typedef might help somehow
<Skipp_OSX>
waddlesplash it's not like anything else because I'm passing a pointer to a function
<PulkoMandy>
so try this: typedef blist_compare_function int (*)(const void*, const void*); and then cast your function as (blist_compare_function)compare
<PulkoMandy>
"pointer to a function" is still a pretty normal type. It's just annoying and unreadable to write the cast
<waddlesplash>
yes
<PulkoMandy>
it would look like this I think: (int (*)(const void*, const void*))compare
<waddlesplash>
yep
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<waddlesplash>
the typedef is wrong
<waddlesplash>
but the second part is right
<Skipp_OSX>
ok I'll try that...
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<PulkoMandy>
I can't writet hese things right on the first try :)
<Skipp_OSX>
I'm sorry what's the correct typedef to use waddlesplash ?
<waddlesplash>
Skipp_OSX: just use the second part, the direct cast
<waddlesplash>
no typedef needed
<Skipp_OSX>
oh I see ok
<Skipp_OSX>
ok that worked... well compiled anyway
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-0/±0] https://git.io/JikPq
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli fb09080 - coreutils: add recipe for version 9.0
<nephele>
Do we have an up arrow svg/hvif for the userguide? (currently it has a 16px green up arrow, it's a bit badly visible imo)
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<LegendaryAmerican>
Commented to ticket #17337
<Skipp_OSX>
thanks for the help I didn't know you could cast that way
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<Skipp_OSX>
nephele probably used the BeOS up arrow from Tracker
<Skipp_OSX>
nephele we have an up arrow hvif that we use in Tracker now to replace the old one
<Skipp_OSX>
but the Tracker arrow is much different from that one.
<nephele>
The trouble is that this has a white bg, and that it is small and badly legible in dark mode
<nephele>
not sure if it's better in the light mode though? :)
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<LegendaryAmerican>
Also didn't like how not getting connection with wpa was modded down. No not an emergency. I put it at high. They said normal. How normal is that bug. Oh wait.. its bsd arena. It's probably been normal using their stack and modifying it to experience this alot. Well. I'm either used to In alpha and beta of something working or not working at all. So this is new.
<nephele>
legendaryamerican: we use high and critical only for select issues, it doesn't mean that your issue is not important
<lorglas>
good bye
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<LegendaryAmerican>
Maybe I can find a vm with its own netstack. And see if it's really software. I know one thing. Haiku on minibooks is much more fun that on a 17 inch beast.
<Skipp_OSX>
where is libzstd.so located?
<LegendaryAmerican>
nephele: I know. Like I said. I'm not used to this. It works but without wpa. Gah.
<waddlesplash>
Skipp_OSX: zstd package
<LegendaryAmerican>
With wpa connections working.. this thing would be 99 percent R1.
<Skipp_OSX>
waddlesplash how do I build that?
<waddlesplash>
you just install it
<waddlesplash>
are you getting an error of some sort?
<LegendaryAmerican>
Rc spit and polish.
<Skipp_OSX>
ok that worked thanks
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah I was getting an error because libzstd not installed but installing it seems to fix the problem (also I could probably update my Haiku to fix)
<waddlesplash>
it should be a requirement of haiku.hpkg at this point
<Skipp_OSX>
it probably is yes, but I have to update mine to get it
<Skipp_OSX>
I saw the commit a few days ago where it was added something about 32-bit Haiku being compiled with gcc8 now
<nephele>
legendaryamerican: heh, i don't think we are quite there yet ;)
<waddlesplash>
Skipp_OSX: only the kernel
<Skipp_OSX>
kernel gotcha
<Skipp_OSX>
ok Network works again let me update my Haiku to make sure it won't break
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<Skipp_OSX>
legendaryamerican not really but ok... you realize that atheros is the hardest to get to work right ?
<Skipp_OSX>
because corporate interests that don't want open source drivers to work.
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<waddlesplash>
actually atheros used to be the easiest
<waddlesplash>
most of their stuff was BSD licensed, and no binary blobs either
<Skipp_OSX>
I'm thinking of Broadcom, I guess that's different from Atheros which is Qualcomm
<waddlesplash>
yes
<Skipp_OSX>
ooooo hrev55555 lucky number
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<Skipp_OSX>
somehow I have -2 on both my patch sets so can't submit them :/
<Skipp_OSX>
anyway they are updated now to use BMenuItem* pointers
<PulkoMandy>
ask Axel and waddlesplash to remove their -2 votes if they think the issue is now fixed
<PulkoMandy>
if they are unresponsive ask a gerrit admin to delete the votes (I think kallisti5 or me, not sure who else can do it)
<waddlesplash>
not sure what to name it in our convention. "intel22x"?
<waddlesplash>
it's the successor to "ipro1000"
<Skipp_OSX>
my buddy has an Asus X470 chipset board that also has an I225V chipset on it, that's for ethernet though I'm pretty sure not wifi... the wifi chipset is also Intel though.
<waddlesplash>
wifi is probably ax200 or the like, freebsd has nothing for that yet
<Skipp_OSX>
Intel® Wi-Fi 6 AX201 you got it
<Skipp_OSX>
and then the LAN is Intel® I225-V 2.5Gb Ethernet
<waddlesplash>
Skipp_OSX: looks like axel replied with a nitpick
<Skipp_OSX>
ok let's see
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<Skipp_OSX>
I'm trying to figure out what his complaint is...
<Skipp_OSX>
oh I see, fQuality
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<LegendaryAmerican>
I think the Intel wifi extreme also facing wpa problems is enough to fix the wpa problems because even though I tested beta 3 on the t61.. a duo.. I upgraded that to something that worked in beta 2. Like the aspire one. Same problem with beta three.. though the wifi on each is 8 years apart.
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<LegendaryAmerican>
All the iCore processors have bad security bugs. Great to support them but extra walls of software to protect those vulnerabilities. So real speed vs advertised speed is bogus.
<LegendaryAmerican>
And msft said they won't support any duos.
<LegendaryAmerican>
In win 11. That's fine. That 1400 dollar software then
<LegendaryAmerican>
"Yeah I'm gonna find an amd thats not been beat to pieces"
<LegendaryAmerican>
But hey lmms port works on the aspire one
<nephele>
My brother got windows 11 on his studio pc in the beta without opting in somehow :)
<rennj>
cant stop the backdooring from m$
<rennj>
hmm thats some good telemetry
<rennj>
you need a firewall box..i doubt winblows respects hosts file blocking or any other registry tweaking
* Anarchos
envisions to use a pihole at home
<rennj>
you see windows11 working on pentium4 single core...their arbitrary system requirements
<nephele>
I don't need such fancy things, i just try to use it and then the windows install self-destructs on it's own, easy
<waddlesplash>
nephele: more seriously, does it work with open networks?
<waddlesplash>
probably high time we updated wpa_s
<nephele>
I don't think it does, let me check
<nephele>
It's my pentium M laptop :)
<nephele>
I also got it a 5ghz intel wifi card which i think is the same driver?
<nephele>
(asked for mini pci wifi card in #freebsd, and kept getting mini pcie card recomendations... i wasn't believe i really ment what i said)
<waddlesplash>
absolutely not
<waddlesplash>
the driver for the 5ghz card is either iprowifi4965 or idualwifi7260
<waddlesplash>
and which one of those it is makes a huge difference though
<nephele>
first one
<nephele>
anyhow, no it doesn't work with open networks
<waddlesplash>
which, the 2200 or the 4965?
<nephele>
2200
<waddlesplash>
2200 is a very old driver
<waddlesplash>
if it's just broken I wouldn't be surprised
<nephele>
It didn't work in FreeBSD either :?
<nephele>
but it did work in windows xp
* waddlesplash
is entirely unsurprised
<waddlesplash>
probably someone broke it during one of the big refactors
<waddlesplash>
you can try building a copy of the driver from Haiku alpha 4
<waddlesplash>
may require some patching
<nephele>
I thought it was just because of freebsds wierd "put this specific valua in rc.conf" that it did not work there
<nephele>
but i can find the 5ghz card plug that in, and debug that, if that is easier ;)
<waddlesplash>
well, that's also possible, I've never actually succeeding in getting wifi to work on freebsd lol
<nephele>
really?
<waddlesplash>
yes, that card should actually work, that's the most or second most popular driver
<nephele>
it's quite easy... just "ifconfig $interface up scan"
<waddlesplash>
well, I also have a idualwifi card
<waddlesplash>
and that driver is flaky even on freebsd
<nephele>
and then you can connect with ifconfig too
<waddlesplash>
it works on haiku about half the time
<nephele>
anyway, let me find the other card...
<nephele>
huh, this 2200 card sais it's lead free, that's good i suppose... not sure why they would have used lead in the first place but okay
<waddlesplash>
solder
<waddlesplash>
nephele: no diff in 2200 to upstream, we're in sync
<waddlesplash>
besides the NET_EPOCH stuff that I still don't understand
<nephele>
it reminds me a bit of "this product is suitable for a vegan diet" printed on waterbotles from the supermarket
* waddlesplash
would hope vegans would at least buy multi-liter jugs, if they buy water at all
<nephele>
if you buy botled water in the supermarket in germany you are already viewed as slightly
<nephele>
insane
<waddlesplash>
probably an american trait we have unfortunately infected europe with
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports.cross] pulkomandy pushed 2 commits to master [+2/-0/±1] https://git.io/JiILe
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports.cross] pulkomandy 85fdb12 - Enable latest gcc version for sparc
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports.cross] pulkomandy fa2aea1 - Add recipe for zstd
<nephele>
not really, buying botled water in america can be quite a good idea
<nephele>
just in germany the quality of the tap water is so good you basically get /less/ quality if anything if you buy bottled table water
<PulkoMandy>
it varies quite a bit from country to cvountry in EU
<waddlesplash>
well, in the US, we also have varying quality of tap water, sure
<waddlesplash>
but most people just get tabletop carbon filters or something like that
<PulkoMandy>
also some places you can only find sparkling/carbonated water in bottles anyway
<Skipp_OSX>
I don't like Dasani it tastes like tap water to me
<nephele>
(which is why i specified germany explicitly, i know that in spain the water is of much less quality for example, mainly because it is much hotter)
<waddlesplash>
anyway back to wifi
<waddlesplash>
to be honest, the major reason I have not already begun switching us to OpenBSD drivers is because they don't have support for nearly as much as FreeBSD yet, especially the atheros chips
<PulkoMandy>
the new innovation is cardboard bottles, which in fact include a layer of plastic under the cardboard and are in fact harder to recycle :/
<waddlesplash>
PulkoMandy: ugh, those are such a joke
<nephele>
sounds like tetrapack?
<waddlesplash>
anyway. FreeBSD WiFi is unfortunately mostly dead at this point :/
<waddlesplash>
barely any changes, only loose support for new cards
<waddlesplash>
OpenBSD at least has support for iwx now, and in fact the newer freebsd drivers are ported from openbsd
<waddlesplash>
if OpenBSD would just gain support for AR93xx/94xx, we'd switch
<nephele>
Why not start porting some next to the freebsd ones? :)
<waddlesplash>
because it has a totally different 802.11 stack
<waddlesplash>
and a totally different set of ioctls
<waddlesplash>
now maybe the ioctls could be hacked up to be "close enough for government work"
<waddlesplash>
but that'd be the only way it would even be a remote possibility
<waddlesplash>
seeing as I have some iwm cards here, maybe I should attempt it
<PulkoMandy>
do we need to port drivers between openbsd and freebsd ourselves, and then tell them to standardize on using the same ioctls?
<waddlesplash>
dragonflybsd was doing that at one point, they apparently stopped
<waddlesplash>
porting between openbsd and freebsd is nontrivial, like I said, the 802.11 stack APIs are very different
<PulkoMandy>
I guess rtems isn't doing much in terms of wifi either?
<waddlesplash>
FreeBSD did multiple rounds of major refactors
<waddlesplash>
which diverged the stacks to the point where they basically are not the same, despite originally having a common origin
<waddlesplash>
PulkoMandy: for some more info, I actually was trying to port *one patch* from the openbsd iwm driver to the freebsd iwm driver (the freebsd driver began as a port ofthe openbsd one); and I got lost in trying to match up APIs
<PulkoMandy>
I'm going to stay on sparc, where I can base my work on freebsd12 since they removed support in later versions. No moving target, no problem :>
<jt15s[m]>
Just wondering, is there anything stopping us from porting WiFi drivers from Linux?
<waddlesplash>
we would need to write a totally new compatibility layer
<Skipp_OSX>
Linux compatibility layer
<nephele>
apart from it beeing linux drivers?
<waddlesplash>
and yes, linux drivers are often not great
<Skipp_OSX>
have you ever seen a Linux driver before jt15s[m] ?
<jt15s[m]>
Ah ok
<jt15s[m]>
Skipp_OSX: Not really, I've used Linux once and the WiFi worked fine
<PulkoMandy>
and also they are usually under the GPL license which creates some headaches for making and distributing DVDs
<jt15s[m]>
Ah yikes
<jt15s[m]>
Oh yeah I forgot about licensing
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<waddlesplash>
anyway, I have to head out
<jt15s[m]>
So in this context it makes sense to use BSD drivers because they are licensed under the BSD license which is compatible with the MIT license, right?
<nephele>
waddlesplash: didn't find the wifi card now... i did find 64mb ram sticks though, but i doubt that helps
<jt15s[m]>
waddlesplash: Cya!
<waddlesplash>
but maybe, reading these files, adapting ioctls is not such an insane idea
<waddlesplash>
the BSD drivers are also much better written and usually work better
<waddlesplash>
they just have less hw support
<nephele>
jt15s: it's not about compatibility as such, it's just way more of a headache to use gpl code, but we totally can do that, and we do in part for some stuff
<jt15s[m]>
Ah alright
<Skipp_OSX>
jt15s[m] first thing you're going to see is a lot of #include <linux/whatever.h>
<Skipp_OSX>
Linux drivers call into the Linux kernel to do all kinds of stuff and that stuff is not in the Haiku kernel so it won't compile unless we were to build a compatibility layer to include that stuff which is what FreeBSD has done.
<jt15s[m]>
Oh yikes
<Skipp_OSX>
for a smaller task... I'd like to get Shine color on controls to be configurable because it looks ridiculous right now when you're not using the default grey color.
<Skipp_OSX>
It's been that way for a long time now but nobody has fixed it... The flat decorator guy (nhtello) knows what I'm talking about
<jt15s[m]>
Skipp_OSX: If you file a ticket the developers will see it and hopefully someone will get around to it
<jt15s[m]>
Actually I think someone raised that before
<jt15s[m]>
But yeah just file a ticket
<jt15s[m]>
Personally it would be great if ThemeManager was preloaded too
<jt15s[m]>
* Personally I thinkn it would
<jt15s[m]>
* Personally I think it would
<Skipp_OSX>
It would be nice to have configurable color schemes in Appearance
<nephele>
Skipp_OSX: i see no reason why it should be configurable, it's part of the visual style, if it's too bright you might decrease the satuartion?
<nephele>
the menu color in Haiku controllook was beeing lightened before beeing used and i fixed that, so if it's really a big issue that it distorts colors just change it
<Skipp_OSX>
we already have a shine option we just have to use it.
<nephele>
doesn't work with the controllook api, you only pass one base color to draw with
<nephele>
why do we need a shine color constant?
<Skipp_OSX>
we already HAVE a shine color constant
<nephele>
yes, why do we /need/ one
<LegendaryAmerican>
Wow. Asked for password 4 times so far on open wifi.
<Skipp_OSX>
I shall explain
<nephele>
legendaryamerican: yes, if it's not connecting it just asks for a password, not the best error handeling at the moment i'm afraid
<nephele>
Skipp_OSX: i mean, this "shine" is only a propery of the haikucontrollook, why should we have a global constant all controlooks need to respect/use that is only relevant for this one?
<nephele>
why not change the rendering to make more sense if it looks broken to you now?
<LegendaryAmerican>
Gonna reboot it. So it'll return fresh.
<jt15s[m]>
Hmm is it possible to reduce the shine?
<Skipp_OSX>
you see how the default buttons don't look silly? but then the other buttons do look silly? That's because the shine is too bright and it's not configurable and well it doesn't look good so it either needs to be or it needs to be toned down at least.
<nephele>
Skipp_OSX: Honestly, no, i don't see it, they look fine to me
<Skipp_OSX>
WHAT?!?!?!
<nephele>
It's part of the visual style of the controlook i would say
<Skipp_OSX>
you don't see that!?!?!?
<Skipp_OSX>
ug
<jt15s[m]>
IMO the shine is too bright
<Skipp_OSX>
thank you
<nephele>
I don't see "silly"
<jt15s[m]>
If it's for dark mode then it shouldn't be that bright
<jt15s[m]>
It's not "silly" but I think it's just a bit too bright
<nephele>
all my buttons look like that and i don't mind it
<nephele>
and again, if it's an issue, just patch it
<Skipp_OSX>
on the default color buttons it looks fine but on the other buttons... silly
<jt15s[m]>
This difference in opinion is probably why Skipp is proposing to have a setting to change the shine haha
<nephele>
no need to make it more complicated with a "shine" color
<jt15s[m]>
So users can decide for themselves what looks better
<nephele>
especially since that wouldn't even work with the exact example you provided
<Skipp_OSX>
we already have a shine color constant we simply need to use it
<nephele>
No
<nephele>
using it would not fix anything
<nephele>
it would make your issue looke even worse
<Skipp_OSX>
ok so what's the fix then?
<nephele>
the shine you see on the buttons is a derivitive of the color the button is rendering at
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah I understand that...
<nephele>
if you use a shine constant the visual discord would be even greate
<nephele>
because you now have a specific button color, like your red one, but a global shine
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah but at least you could adjust the shine until it doesn't look discordant
<nephele>
the solution IMO is to just change how the controllook renders to make this stand out less
<jt15s[m]>
Yeah sounds good
<nephele>
No, you couldn't, you would trade one discordant button for another
<nephele>
in your example you might "fix" the dark gray but then the default would look like the dark gray look now
<Skipp_OSX>
I haven't figure out what in HaikuControlLook needs to change yet.
<nephele>
there are severall things the haiku controlook needs to adapt for dark mode IMO, this is one option where to start
<Skipp_OSX>
doesn't it make sense to use the shine color constant for ... the shine thugh?
<nephele>
I think this is probably where I would start investigating the rendering of the button
<waddlesplash>
jt15s[m]: Skipp_OSX is a developer lol
<waddlesplash>
one of the old hands who fixes all our pixels when they're out of alignment
<jt15s[m]>
Oh ok lol
<Skipp_OSX>
I thought the bevel was different...
<Skipp_OSX>
I guess it uses the same color as the top left inside edge for the shine
<waddlesplash>
Skipp_OSX: why not just have a better heuristic for calculating shine colors
<nephele>
Skipp_OSX: I'm not perfectly sure, it's not the easiest code to step through :)
<waddlesplash>
that seems to make the most sense, just do some different logic for darker colors
<nephele>
Skipp_OSX: I think most of the color discord comes from the gradient just suddenly stopping in the middle aswell
<nephele>
not sure why it's not doing that for the "normal" colors, but perhaps it is just less visible there
<jt15s[m]>
Hmm Sebrof on the forums is proposing to setup a company for Haiku in the EU
<jt15s[m]>
A non-profit is the way to go IMO
<nephele>
jt15s: we already have that?
<jt15s[m]>
I don't think the HSA is a company?
<jt15s[m]>
But yeah the HSA is already a non-profit
<jt15s[m]>
Sebrof's argument is that the HSA is more of a "club"
<jt15s[m]>
But arguably once it's a non-profit it's a non-profit, we just need more volunteers to turn it into the Haiku Inc of the EU
<jt15s[m]>
Hmm wonder if we could register the HAIKU trademark in the EU
<nephele>
I think he means that it's a E.v "Eingetragener Verein", I don't think that really matters though from a legal perspective it could own property and such
<nephele>
but... the base argument of "the inc can transfer intelectual property" doesn't make sense to me, it's all open source there is no intelectual property that needs transfering
<waddlesplash>
KDE is an eV
<waddlesplash>
so indeed I don't think that matters
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<Skipp_OSX>
looks like _MakeGradient() method is doing the gradient part and there's just one stop
<Skipp_OSX>
_MakeGlossyGradient() has more stops but is only used when the button is not activated... wait I think that means unpressed, so it does have more than one stop 4 stops
<waddlesplash>
tbh a tint color based shine color may be enough, or is that what we already do?
<nephele>
I don't think we use shine color at all, and personally i think we shouldn't
<nephele>
(it's also not passed to the controllook directly, so we would need to change the api for that? ... or use a global shine while getting app-specified colors for the rest)
<Skipp_OSX>
I don't think the API needs to change we just need to do a better job choosing tints and making gradients
<nephele>
Yeah
<nephele>
If you have patches I'd be happy to test them :)
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<jt15s[m]>
Also some news about merchandise
<jt15s[m]>
The good news is we can have it by the second week of November
<Skipp_OSX>
just in time for Christmas
<jt15s[m]>
The bad news is, most of the designs suggested by the community don't work
<jt15s[m]>
Since Haiku uses a lot of gradients in icons etc
<nephele>
no haiku printed cups? .-.
<jt15s[m]>
I think they forgot about those
<jt15s[m]>
I'll raise it again
<jt15s[m]>
Mousepads and stickers are possible though
<nephele>
If not I'll stay the singular person with a haiku cup ;)
<jt15s[m]>
Windows style stickers that go on your keyboard aren't though because they can't source the material needed
<nephele>
mousepads seem kind of obsolete nowadays
<jt15s[m]>
Hmm I still use one
<jt15s[m]>
But yeah, mice have gotten better
<nephele>
they were important with crappy laser mice, but nowadays even cheap laser mice don't have a problem with most surfaces
<jt15s[m]>
So it's possible to do without one
<jt15s[m]>
So what should I do with the designs they can't print?
<nephele>
(or you could always use a trackball like me and not have to use a table at all :P)
<jt15s[m]>
The only designs they can do are the Haiku logo plus a 20th anniversary design with a leaf that someone sent on the forums
<jt15s[m]>
The others either have too many gradients or shadows to do ☹️
<nephele>
If it's not printable that is unfortunate, but i don't think we can do much about that?
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<jt15s[m]>
Some of the designs just consist of a leaf as the only gradient element so I might see if they can adjust the leaf for us
<jt15s[m]>
Alternatively we could offer more designs with another vendor
<jt15s[m]>
(Which would complement those offered by Freewear, of course)
<nephele>
I dunno, maybe see if this pans out first? With additional requirements maybe you can ask for some adjusted designs from forum members that may be more easily produced
<jt15s[m]>
Yeah alright, sounds good
<jt15s[m]>
BTW did you see my reply on Trac?
<nephele>
regarding the trac theme?
<nephele>
if you mean that yes
<nephele>
mostly email notifications on my desktop for that :D (though i should figure out why the mail_daemon does not add a deskbar icon on start...)
<jt15s[m]>
Yeah I'm referring to the Trac theme
<jt15s[m]>
I've always wanted to try theming Trac but don't know how to get started haha
<nephele>
I think they have documentation for that
<nephele>
I'll probably try to make trac atleast get a dark mode during the sprint though
<jt15s[m]>
Yeah that would be great
<nephele>
I already made good progress with the user guide
<jt15s[m]>
I'm sure Trac would be really happy if you sent that upstream too
<jt15s[m]>
Wow that looks great!
<jt15s[m]>
Plus it would be nice if we had our own version of the Trac theme that used Noto Sans as the font and maybe changed the "accent colour" Trac uses to the orange we use for links on the user guide
<nephele>
doesn't it already?
<nephele>
if i make a dark theme for trac i would try to make it in a way that was upstreamable yeah, same for cgit
<nephele>
also, trac already uses the orange from the userguide for links, no?
<nephele>
ah, i guess it's more redish
<nephele>
I'm happy you like the dark userguide, i still need to polish it a bit before i can send it to be deployed :)
<nephele>
I also made sure that the prefers-contrast property has an effect in addition to the dark mode (although, i did not do any for the light mode because I don't want to spend too much time in that...)
<jt15s[m]>
nephele: No, not really, currently we just use the default Trac theming
<jt15s[m]>
One thing I'd really like to see on the User Guide is a search bar
<nephele>
Huh, i thought it was somewhat adjusted already anyhow
<jt15s[m]>
Would make it so much easier for people to find stuff
<nephele>
My main complaint with the userguide is the language selection tbh
<nephele>
(although, the shortcuts on the desktop should be made to respect the default system language too somehow)