ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
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<Begasus> g'morning peeps
<jessicah> morning Begasus
<skirst> playing with a dark mode theme for my app, what do you folks think? i'm thinking slick :D https://drive.google.com/file/d/10yFewzdilsp4e1j-0wHUUZZS9avHnmjK/view?usp=sharing
<Begasus> hi jessicah skirst
<skirst> hello Begasus
<Begasus> looks nice skirst
<skirst> thanks, Begasus!
<skirst> does haiku have an official dark mode theme?
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<Begasus> there is "flatstyle" (iirc) a package that can be installed from the depot
<Begasus> where are the nightly downloads on the site?
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<Begasus> can't seem to find a link on the "download" page
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<Begasus> g'morning BrunoSpr
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<skirst> Begasus, found and installed the theme manager and the flat style. got thrown into kernel debug when applying it :( rebooted and it was far from flat but indeed dark! guessing it was just the color scheme with default widget style
<Begasus> I knew I had some issues when I checked the last time ;) (sorry)
<skirst> no worries! thanks for the tip!
<Begasus> ps, Terminal has it's own color themes also (that one is black here)
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<skirst> yeah, i have that :D and the config backed up for when terminal barfs on it's config
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<Begasus> heh
<skirst> haiku would look so awesome with a good dark theme. those yellow tabs will really pop! wish i had the time to tinker
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<Begasus> skirst, almost ... https://ibb.co/7xhCdwK
<skirst> so close!
<Begasus> bugger, again a new release for texstudio ... can't keep up with them :P
<BrunoSpr> hey all
<Begasus> hi BrunoSpr :)
<BrunoSpr> texstudio does not render to PDF
<Begasus> did you solve your issues?
<BrunoSpr> It should work with CLI first
<Begasus> you still need some packages from texlive
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<BrunoSpr> no I just copy my home folder to USB then I will do a new install
<Begasus> ah ok, thinking about the same here for the native 64bit install
<BrunoSpr> Begasus. yes there are a lot of important packages missing
<BrunoSpr> also on Lynx
<Begasus> just grabbed a nightly and installed it on USB
<Begasus> never got Lynx really to work
<Begasus> latest changes in the PR for texlive creates a ton of packages (including source packages) for over 4GiB
<BrunoSpr> In Lynx there are lot of files missing too
<Begasus> subpackages are small, but you just have to figure out which packages are really needed
<BrunoSpr> there are some important files like: article, book, letter and those
<BrunoSpr> template files
<BrunoSpr> those are very important
<BrunoSpr> without them you cannot use Lynx
<BrunoSpr> similar to texstudio
<BrunoSpr> but other files there
<Begasus> 127 packages there (should make a backup from them soon)
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<BrunoSpr> ok
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<BrunoSpr> to have the tlmgr download manager for Texlive is very important, so that Texstudio can work
<BrunoSpr> tlmgr is a installer
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<Begasus> that's provided in the _basic ...
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<Begasus> BrunoSpr, https://ibb.co/x7wQwHd
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<Begasus> hrev55504 doesn't work with booting, icons scrambled over the screen at the bottom, can't even seem to boot the installed system with it :/
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<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JKvAe
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus b682eea - blender, revbump for rebuild (for new mesa package) (#6267)
<Begasus> k, didn't build this one, should be good as nothing else changed inthere
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<jt15s[m]> Begasus: we haven't enabled the link to the nightlies on the downloads page, but you can always directly access the nightlies page at https://download.haiku-os.org
<Begasus> jt15s[m], found it through google, but thanks :)
<jt15s[m]> * downloads page (we're waiting until Beta3 gets a bit older), but
<Begasus> maybe you could mention there how to update the Beta3 once it's installed too?
<Begasus> updated this morning to +62
<Begasus> 55500 same issue, maybe I should just grab the beta :)
<Begasus> bbl
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<nephele[m]> andreasdr, jessicah: Yes, i am making additional UI for dark mode, aswell as misc fixes for apps that do not work as is with a dark appearence
<nephele[m]> andreasdr: Quaternion of course, they have me in their about box ;), but in all seriousness Quaternion is a more irc-esque ui, and nheko a more "modern" "smartphoneish" UI, personally I prefer to use Quaternion but both should work somewhat fine on Haiku, Quaternion just feels more at home to me (and it's "more" working with standard controls)
<nephele[m]> for file uploading both will work just fine
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<BrunoSpr> Begasus... installing from nightly was not easy, did not do it for a real long time... some problems I had. finally I cloned my USB-Haiku 30GB to USB-Haiku2 60GB but only 30GB used because it was cloned... anyway now it works and I have a 30GB free partition for Data/home
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<BrunoSpr> hello... anyone an idea if I have to rename the haiku_loader.efi to BOOTX64.EFI ?
<nephele[m]> BrunoSpr: Depends.
<nephele[m]> Do you have a loader entry that points to haiku_loader.efi?
<nephele[m]> if not, you might want to rename it, it then becomes part of the "fallback" path the EFI takes if it has no matching entries, if you put it in the right directory, there the name is important.
<nephele[m]> It will overwrite the BOOTX64.EFI you already have however, for what OS is it? if it doesn't matter you can just delete it I suppose :)
<BrunoSpr> nephele[m]... no I do not think I have a loader entry... nothing done by my side...
<nephele[m]> Then you probably do want to name it BOOTX64.EFI, this works well if you only boot Haiku on that machine
<BrunoSpr> There is still a Windows install on this machine
<nephele[m]> not so well if you want to dual boot, if that is the case you either do need to make loader entries, or you need to use something like rEFInd
<nephele[m]> Yeah, if it's windows on there don't overwrite the fallback path, you will make windows unbootable, because it tries to use the fallback path
<nephele[m]> IIRC anyhow
<BrunoSpr> I always manual boot
<nephele[m]> You would then need to move the BOOTX64.efi somewhere else, maybe windows_loader.efi, and use rEFInd instead
<BrunoSpr> no boot loader or Bootman
<BrunoSpr> ah ok
<nephele[m]> the EFI executable is the boot loader, if you remove it windows won't be bootable anymore
<BrunoSpr> I leave it like it is then...
<nephele[m]> You can also make a "entry" in your efi for haiku, and point it at haiku_loader.efi and then you have a "Haiku" entry in your boot menu
<BrunoSpr> no risk and not into studying lots of EFI and REFInd installations... too complicated for me atm
<nephele[m]> it's a bit more complicated to do this however, refind is probably easier, it gives you a nice graphical menu to pick from and automatically finds all efi executables to boot
<nephele[m]> Installing is basically just moving it to the right place IIRC
<BrunoSpr> how to edit the entry in the efi?
<nephele[m]> You need a special tool, i think on linux it is called efivar or something?
<BrunoSpr> ah no forget it it is too complicated for me atm...
<nephele[m]> efibootmgr
<BrunoSpr> sorry not into experiments today
<BrunoSpr> I already lost my Haiku install because of the MESA files yesterday...
<nephele[m]> What happened with MESA?
<BrunoSpr> I installed the new SCUMMVM to try it
<BrunoSpr> it was not working so I deinstalled and installed some MESA files from HaikuDepot...
<BrunoSpr> after that lots of my programs vanished
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<julicenri> Is it possible to batch export HVIFs to SVGs?
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JKf5n
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli 4421e01 - extra_cmake_modules: provides also without _x86
<nephele[m]> BrunoSpr: check previous state? I suspect mesa was bumped and it deinstalled stuff that dependet on previous mesa
<nephele[m]> julicenri: yes, no, maybe. check the "translate" command
<nephele[m]> Either it has hvif to SVG in that list, or it has to be patched to get that, but i think the functionality might be only in IOM (and then only as IOM->SVG instead of HVIf->SVG, but i dont know this for certain, so check :D)
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<julicenri> I do see both HVIF and SVG translators.
<julicenri> Does that mean conversions between both formats are possible with it?
<nephele[m]> The translator command lists every conversion it knows explicitly
<nephele[m]> with inputs and outputs for each
<julicenri> So, that's a no then?
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JKfbt
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli 2dcfa80 - kproperty: trigger build
<nephele[m]> I have not checked
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<nephele[m]> if it's not possible it is probably a good idea to make a bug report about this
<nephele[m]> iirc someone also wanted to convert wonderbrush to HVIF on the commandline directly to be able to do this in a build
<julicenri> Tbh most of the translators seem to only convert to Be Bitmap.
<julicenri> Either I'm not understanding something here or that means a lot of bug reports will have to be filed.
<nephele[m]> That is what many things need, HVIF is nice, but in the end it needs to be displayed as a bitmap :P
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<nephele[m]> Functionality for some of these things already exists in WonderBrush or Icon-O-Matic and should be moved
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<julicenri> If I'm not misunderstanding anything, pretty much every image format translator can't convert to other formats.
<nephele[m]> You are free to file a couple of enhancement tickets for the translator, how many you file is up to you, but i doubt that filing every possible conversion makes much sense, Wonderbrush+IOM+HVIF+SVG could be one translator for instance
<nephele[m]> THis code also already exists mostly, it needs to be moved
<nephele[m]> Maybe file one for the more pressing issue of IOM/HVIF -> SVG for the time beeing? :)
<julicenri> I'm just not sure if I understand the concept of translators enough to confidently file tickets.
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<nephele[m]> It's a library that is supposed to convert from "file format" to an applications native file format mostly
<BrunoSpr> I did use preinstall but could not update it to newest hrev 55500
<BrunoSpr> so I deleted all
<BrunoSpr> reinstalled it...
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<julicenri> nephele[m]: Sounds like it would be out-of-scope to have translators convert to other formats besides Be Bitmap then?
<julicenri> IDK
<nephele[m]> no
<julicenri> Um, guess I'll just do manual conversions with IOM for now then.
<nephele[m]> exporting is fine for it aswell, but it's main "pretty" gui use is fancy stuff like opening pdfs in IMageViewer
<nephele[m]> please file a ticket, it's not supposed to have to be done manually
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<nephele[m]> In essence translators are a library for file type conversion, if i understand it correctly applications should support their native file types, and use translators for the rest, so in essence applications with a similar scope can open files the system supports easily, and export them easily
<nephele[m]> this to avoid each image processer for example to know how to convert to bmp, gif, tig, png, pdf etc, and just have this code once in the system as a translator
<nephele[m]> You can check Preferences/DataTranslators for some we have already also, with their info
<nephele[m]> (They are mainly IIRC in /system/add-ons/Translators/ )
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JKJTW
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli 6cff866 - cython_python3: provides also without _x86
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JKJID
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli 2ed043f - cython_python38: provides also without _x86
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JKJLG
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli eb64275 - cython_python39: provides also without _x86
<countryboy> python = a small dragon ...
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<countryboy> hello ...
<countryboy> i apologize ...
<countryboy> python = a small dragon
<countryboy> just add the legs ...
<nephele[m]> a reptile
<countryboy> bad link ...
<countryboy> negative ...
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JKJOq
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli f6323f4 - imutils: disable x86_gcc2
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<countryboy> deavmi ... dear me ...
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<countryboy> a selfie ...
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JKJZT
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli 01cdbaf - twisted: provides also without _x86
<countryboy> beos spirit ...
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<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-1/±0] https://git.io/JKJcj
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli a94fab8 - buildbot_slave: remove old recipe
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<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-1/±0] https://git.io/JKJCk
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli 1646087 - buildbot_slave: remove old patchset
<deavmi_> where is the source code for this bot?
<deavmi_> the one that does the commits?
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<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JKJWL
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli 70dabad - twisted: missing newline
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<nephele[m]> deavmi_: i think in the haiku infrastructure repo? not entirely sure
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JKJ4a
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli cb61a0f - buildbot: switch to any arch
<deavmi_> got a link to that?
<deavmi_> possibly?
<nephele[m]> Well, this is the repo, but where it is in the repo i don't know: https://github.com/haiku/infrastructure/
<nephele[m]> maybe it's also in a different repo, but since it's all in containers and stuff you can probaly figure out where it is from the configs
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<Begasus> k, first round on fixing the requirements for blender done ... call me crazy, build started (this will probably take me 2 days to finish) :P
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<countryboy> Begasus: used blender under linux ... rendered a sphere ...
<Begasus> congrats countryboy
<countryboy> thank you Begasus ...
<countryboy> :-)
<BrunoSpr> There are no more recommended packages in HaikuDepot? Is it just me?
<Begasus> not messing with the system to find out atm BrunoSpr :)
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<Diver> I have the same thing, I see the following in the Terminal:
<Diver> {E} Fatal exception occurred while resolving system dependencies: No such file or directory, details:
<Diver> no details after that of course
<BrunoSpr> Ups
<BrunoSpr> Begasus just have a look into HaikuDepot
<Begasus> Blender is building, so things are quite slow here atm :)
<BrunoSpr> ah ok np
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<Begasus> ps, still showing up here in HaikuDepot on R1B3
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<Begasus> 222/3069 ... a few more to go ...
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<rennj> hurry up and wait
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] kallisti5 pushed 1 commit to master [hrev55505] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=d4ca1c6746cc+%5Ed29af2b6ebf4
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] d4ca1c6746cc - arm: Add missing gFDT storage for FDT bus
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] kallisti5 pushed 1 commit to master [hrev55506] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=3e8376c6dd2c+%5Ed4ca1c6746cc
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 3e8376c6dd2c - arm64: Add missing fdt storage for FDT bus
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<Begasus> 577 ... almost there rennj :P
<Begasus> I'll leave those up to the ones that know how to use it :)
<rennj> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enjQ7YY4wi4 Psycho Unstable Journey | Gameplay blender game
<Begasus> not bumping any version there, just trying to get the current one to build
<Begasus> updating that monster is for someone else :)
<rennj> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLgrk-7te6c Evolution of Blender Engine Games 2008-2020
<rennj> "yo frankie" i think i tried once
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] kallisti5 pushed 1 commit to master [hrev55507] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=4a850ca730d8+%5E3e8376c6dd2c
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 4a850ca730d8 - PoorMan: update thttpd from 2.25b to 2.29
<Begasus> didn't watch the whole video but nice progress rennj ... although I think the last one in the list didn't realy appeal to me :)
<Begasus> looked a bit like Doom in it's first version
<rennj> Ultrakill Prelude - Doom Eternal On A Budget
<mrentropyvcs> I installed some fonts last night (from HaikuDepot). LibreOffice doesn't see them, but Calligra does. Is there something in LibreOffice that needs to be done to use them?
<Begasus> maybe they are not supported by LO?
<Begasus> or LO doesn't look in that folder (then it should be patched)
<Begasus> but did some font packages a while ago and they showed up in LO ok
<mrentropyvcs> Hmm. Well, I can use Calligra. Still in the camp for a native word processor, though. Or running 32-bit Productive in 64-bit Haiku.
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<Begasus> [259/3069] Building CXX object intern/...les/cycles_bvh.dir/bvh_unaligned.cpp.o
<Begasus> FAILED: intern/cycles/bvh/CMakeFiles/cycles_bvh.dir/bvh_unaligned.cpp.o
<Begasus> ok, I'm ahead of the failure on the buildmaster, so far looking good then ;)
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<nephele[m]> I like Calligra, it's a bit better of a UI than Libreoffice imo. but libreoffice runs fantastic on Haiku too
<nephele[m]> I also figured out how to sideload fonts to use on ios apple pages, so there is that :D
<nephele[m]> mrentropyvcs: do you ave a specific font you wanted to use in LO you can name that didn't work i can check out?
<mrentropyvcs> nephele[m]: Georgia would work nicely for me.
<BrunoSpr> nephele[m].. yes I very much like Calligra too. It is fast and crashfree...
<BrunoSpr> Calligra needs some adjustments, like bigger fonts and bigger GUI sometimes
<BrunoSpr> nephele[m] as far as I know it is possible to edit the XML files to adjust the GUI
<rennj> dpi foobar 96 vs 120 makes a diff
<rennj> HDdpi displays
<rennj> Xft.dpi: 144
<rennj> always fun messing with x11
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<rennj> 1600x1200with dpi 120 i had for 1 whole decade 1995-2005 was glorious
<rennj> viewsonic 21 ps monitor had dpi of .25 or .22 real quality
<rennj> You will either have to build Blender 2.93, which is compatible with OCIO 2.0.0, or use the library version compatible with 2.91.2.
<rennj> like its going to fly with vesa graphics anyway
<jezek2> CRTs were great :D one time I even simulated a "retina" density (>200dpi) on a 19" CRT by using 1920x1440 resolution and shrinking it to 50% of visible area :DD of course the detail wasn't fully there but interesting for a test
<rennj> waiting on the VR minus the fakebook telemetry,
<rennj> lighter headsets also
<rennj> builddir/build/BUILD/blender-2.91.2/intern/opencolorio/ocio_impl.cc: In member function 'virtual void
<rennj> virtual void!
<rennj> i know that beos tune
<rennj> 5038 and virtualvoid rocked!
<rennj> throwing monitors off beos building did not!
<nephele[m]> BrunoSpr: The UI is bad is not really fixable with editing some XML :P
<Begasus> bbl, or tomorrow :) cu peeps
<nephele[m]> (for example, in chart titles it's suddenly much harder to get subscript letters, I have no idea why, but there is an open bug about this, it's not that tragic if you want to write "Gross incomin in %" but it sure is annoying when you want to write "H₂SO₄ Usage")
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<BrunoSpr> how to add the print to PDF translator to the print preferences?
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<rennj> create a printer i want to say
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<nephele[m]> Don't think there is a gui way to get it back :/
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<BrunoSpr> I deleted it by accident...
<nephele[m]> this is from config/settings/printers/Save as PDF
<nephele[m]> maybe it helps if you extract it there, i only zipped up the Save as PDF file
<rennj> /boot/config/home/add-ons/Printers on beos
<rennj> has pdfwriter
<BrunoSpr> yes but I deleted it by accident
<nephele[m]> rennj: the problem is not the addon beeing deleted, but the "config" that makes it visible in the print settings
<nephele[m]> and the print settings has no gui way to get it back i think
<nephele[m]> BrunoSpr: Let me know if the zip helped restore it :)
<rennj> /boot/config/home/settings/printers on beos
<rennj> those 2 dirs
<BrunoSpr> ah yes that could work
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<rennj> the instructions should be in software pkg for pdfwriter for beos anyway
<rennj> no clue about haiku
<nephele[m]> rennj: not sure what you mean with beos, haiku already has a pdf writer included
<BrunoSpr> yes it is there again now, thanks alot nephele[m]
<rennj> beos did not include it
<nephele[m]> BrunoSpr: :)
<BrunoSpr> great
<rennj> it was software you had to add the system
<rennj> so if you look at the old pdfwriter software from beos...probably can get a clue what way haiku went
<nephele[m]> Haiku already has it though, so i really don't see how BeOS specific instructions would help...
<nephele[m]> If you want to know how haiku does it just look at the source code :)
<rennj> rather than reinstall, you should be able to figure it out from haiku live boot
<rennj> query of simple find pdf from live cd
<nephele[m]> There is no reinstall involved, haikus packages are immutable
<nephele[m]> the pdf printer was never deleted
<rennj> immutable till you delete the printer
<rennj> the settings
<nephele[m]> no, just immutable, there is no way to delete the actuall driver
<nephele[m]> You can screw up your configs sure, but that has little to do with reinstalling :)
<rennj> yeah ok
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<rennj> its only immutable if its on readonly media
<rennj> read writable media, readonly fs still subject ot data corruption
<nephele[m]> Nope, it's immutable in general, you cannot change files from them, they are threated as RO, readonly media is also subject to data coruption
<rennj> yeah sure, and you doing checksum on each load?
<nephele[m]> for example cd's can be scratched, but that hardly justifies calling CD-R a rw medium
<nephele[m]> Dunno if it does now, but it certainly should? it's a good tool to detect data corruption, ideally you can even do this on the filesystem block level like ZFS does
<rennj> data on the harddrive where most people install it..is subject to errors
<nephele[m]> RAM is subject to errors, so is the CPU, where is your point? It's abstractions and simplifications all the way down
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<nephele[m]> With "haiku system packages are immutable" I don't mean "It is absolutely impossible to ever change haiku packages" But rather "there is no way during normal operation to modify system packages", You certainly can make the kernel just overwrite sectors on the disk, or make the system re-create the package to remove a file, but that is not really what the system does normally or allows users to do really.
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<rennj> i live.iso is immutable, readonly media, no remastering/re opening of iso session. the checksums on those files should never change.
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<rennj> the same can not be said for data on harddrive, unless you got something like zfs running
<nephele[m]> iso9960 is also "just" a filesystem, it has no additional data protection
<rennj> harddrive bios, disk cache, to hba controller can all corrupt stuff
<nephele[m]> it's the cd itself that has the data checksuming properties, only a written medium would have any sort of error detection (and only limited correction capabilities)
<nephele[m]> an iso has no specifal power
<nephele[m]> rennj: hardware does break, hardware misbehaves and hardware can't be trusted, I still don't see your point. In IT it doesn't make much sense to me to say stuff /isnt/ something just because hardware could in theory screw it up, even mathematically checksums aren't perfect either. with enough corruption you could mathematically generate an error that would result in a faulty block recognized as correct. This is just so statistically unlikely
<nephele[m]> it will probably never happen
<rennj> trident linux and ghostbsd are 2 iso's that use zfs and checksumming on files from liveboot.
<rennj> real nice features
<nephele[m]> Have you checked whether haiku packages do checksumming as a prequisite for mounting?
<AlwaysLivid> are you using a virtual machine btw
<AlwaysLivid> e.g. qemu
<nephele[m]> For what purpose AlwaysLivid ?
<AlwaysLivid> nephele[m], idk, whenever i use the haiku and install some stuff (there's not a lot of space), it persists
<nephele[m]> AlwaysLivid: If you want the filesystem image to be RO you have to tell qemu to do that
<rennj> whole point of ZFS is to address failures like that and bitrot
<nephele[m]> otherwise it will just make the ISO rw for you
<AlwaysLivid> which is why i asked
<nephele[m]> I don't use qemu to boot haiku unless i test specific kernel drivers and don't want to reboot
<nephele[m]> rennj: still has nothing to do with the assertion that system packages are immutable, shrug
<rennj> whatever dude...its only immutable if its not writable
<rennj> you put files on harddrive and i can write to them
<nephele[m]> Which is exactly what haiku does for the filesystem representation...
<rennj> worm drive is immutable
<rennj> write once read many
<nephele[m]> AlwaysLivid: Haiku persists states on the "live" install because it works exactly like a normal install, it just has one more script that runs on first boot once, it's the same behaviour as if you had copied the installer iso to a USB drive
<AlwaysLivid> which is why i asked
<nephele[m]> I don't know what you wanted to know there, really AlwaysLivid
<nephele[m]> How does that relate to whether I use qemu?
<AlwaysLivid> oh, sorry, forgot to clarify that i was referring to rennj
<AlwaysLivid> my bad
<nephele[m]> oh, ok
<nephele[m]> AlwaysLivid: do you compile haiku yourself?
<AlwaysLivid> ye
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<nephele[m]> Want to play around with dark mode colors? :)
<nephele[m]> The initial set of (proposed) colors for the dark mode is on gerrit now: https://review.haiku-os.org/c/haiku/+/4571
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<tqh> nice!
<tqh> Can't wait for flatlook with dark theme!
<tqh> now I just need a dock that behaves just like Plank.
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<nephele[m]> tqh: can't say i will test with the flatlook much, but it should work fine once finished :)
<tqh> I think its dark colors are pretty much spot on for my taste, so hope we will have something like that in haiku by default.
<nephele[m]> Dunno, never used "it's" colors, i thought it's just a controllook?
<nephele[m]> I recall once having it work on a boot again and thinking i broke the interface kit because the buttons looked broken, lol
<nephele[m]> This is a screenshot with the colors, iirc. You are free to ignore the background image however ;)
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<x512[m]> nephele: White shading looks strange.
<tqh> I think yours is too black and metallic looking. So prefer the one I linked.
<nephele[m]> x512: this is the controllook, it has nothing to do with the colors
<x512[m]> Isn't hilight color configurable?
<nephele[m]> tqh: not much point to me to make a dark theme if i can't use it afterwards. In any case it's harder to argue about colors if we don't have any color calibration on displays, the same colors will just look different on each others devices
<nephele[m]> x512: button shine and window tab shine is heuristic of the controllook afaik?
<nephele[m]> Maybe it's supposed to be the "Shine" color but that has no effect that i can see
<tqh> nephele[m], yes, I think we should be able to have a few different themes. I mostly worry about someone wanting to restrict to one light and one dark theme.
<nephele[m]> ThemeManager works already?
<tqh> yes, but it's a hassle. And if we add only one dark theme, I don't have the same taste as you...
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<nephele[m]> I don't care about taste that much, I'm doing this mainly because bright themese cause me pain and headaches, I don't want this functionality to deveolve into an endless discussion about which gray is the best gray :/, especailly not if we literally can't reason about this without calibrated displays. on this laptop for example stuff is too green, always. but that is not fixable with the color scheme
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<tqh> I'm not interested in the taste discussion either. We have different, and that is ok. I am more interested in what devs say about having themes in haiku itself.
<nephele[m]> I think the consensus is pretty much to not have themes as such in haiku
<nephele[m]> and reduce the default appearence preference settings colors to a manageable level, maybe one highlight color, maybe a second accent color or so
<nephele[m]> and have a "default" theme for light and dark, and leave the more advanced stuff for theme manager and such
<tqh> I think we should, you have physical problems as do color-blind so we should try to have good options.
<nephele[m]> Personally, I think it should as far as possible work out of the box while still looking nice normally
<nephele[m]> if we want we could always have a "higher contrast" or "reduce white point" option like for example IOS has? (though on bad days, reduce white point set to max and display brightness on 0 on iOS, is too bright for me... not much to do then)
<tqh> I hate installing OS'es and having to spend half a day to get everything right. So I don't really want to have to find and download theme-manager find and download themes.
<tqh> So themes takes almost no space, and we could have a selection to choose from.
<nephele[m]> If you want a lot of customization that it what it boils down to imo, the default install should acomatade you, to a point. choice overload is the other extreme we certainly don't want i think
<nephele[m]> to avoid a misunderstanding: what do you mean by themes in this context?
<tqh> color scheme.
<nephele[m]> only colors?
<tqh> I think that probably would be enough?
<nephele[m]> Well, in that case, I think the appearence prefs should indeed offer the most common things you'd want, but the 39 sliders we have now should definetely be more "advanced" in the theme manager or such
<tqh> we don't really support vector backgrounds I think? :)
<nephele[m]> I thought you were talking about themes in the sense of theme manager, as in color scheme, sound theme etc all packed into one bundle to select...
<nephele[m]> :)
<nephele[m]> We kinda support theoretically setting IOM or HVIF as bg and having that be converted to a bebitmap via a translator? :)
<tqh> no, I just want it too look goot to my taste. And it is kind of flat look in dark :)
<nephele[m]> but we don't even support transparent background pictures :(
<tqh> good
<nephele[m]> one suprise for me today: The digital audio on my laptop is actually working with OSS
<tqh> I guess someone can do a good svg translator :) I havn't checked in ages though.
<tqh> nice
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<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JKIs7
<Not-5726> [haikuports/haikuports] korli 5585239 - gcc: fix -fstack-protector on x86
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<nephele[m]> tqh: i looked at the screenshot again, almost 90% of the differences are because of differing rendering in the controllook, is a bikeshed there really neccesary?
<nephele[m]> would be nice if you could atleast point out specifics rather than saying we should just do something else...
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<bestonecrazy[m]> .S.O doog a si ukiaH
<bestonecrazy[m]> Haiku is a good O.S.
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<tqh> If we decidee to only have one additional theme, it will be the only other one we are judged by.
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<nephele[m]> How is asking to throw away my work helping in any form?
<nephele[m]> If you want to bikeshed atleast point out specifics you think are wrong and don't ask me to just copy everything from some random screenshot where the colors aren't even available in
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<tqh> I havn't asked you to throw anything away?
<tqh> I asked in the PR what we think about having several color schemes. I just think we need to have more than two.
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