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<waddlesplash>
x512[m]: huh? this is interrupts disabled code, we can't use recursive locks
<waddlesplash>
this is a thread synchronization primitive, we can only use atomics and spinlocks
<x512[m]>
Any similar mechanisms in other OSes?
<waddlesplash>
previously this thing was globally locked across all CPUs. I rewrote it to use per variable locks, then per variable and per entry locks after that turned out to be race prone
<waddlesplash>
but that seems to cause performance problems, and assuming kallisti5 ticket isn't a fluke, it still has some kind of race
<waddlesplash>
so, I've now got most of an implementation that removes the second spinlock and uses atomics instead
<waddlesplash>
hopefully this will work out, because it is much simpler by a lot
<x512[m]>
As I know condition variable pattern assumes that lock is acquired when waiting for condition variable. Lock is released during waiting.
<waddlesplash>
so, that works in the general case, yes
<waddlesplash>
but then we have the problem of timeouts, we allow waits on cvars to timeout
<waddlesplash>
in that case we must remove the wait entry from the parent
<waddlesplash>
but then if the parent tries to wake up that or any other entry we are in a race. so we have to do some strange things to avoid deadlocks between the two spinlocks
<waddlesplash>
when I wrote this version of the code I couldn't think of any other way to do it, but now I see a way to delete the second spinlock and use atomics to synchronize instead
<x512[m]>
Maybe in case of kernel, condition variable lock is interrupts lock?
<waddlesplash>
that won't really help here, I don't think
<waddlesplash>
I am pretty sure we eliminated that as an option, though I don't recall the precise rationale
<waddlesplash>
x512[m]: even if we used interrupts locks here we'd still have potential lock inversion problems
<waddlesplash>
this redesign I'm working on, by carefully using the one spinlock and then atomic fields, should avoid them, and resolve whatever the remaining race is
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<x512[m]>
Can it be a reason of GCC crashes on HiFive Unmatched when compiling on NVMe disk?
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<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://git.io/J1yLX
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli 72921cf - pyqt5: bump version
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/J1ytk
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<julicenri>
Does anyone know of any alternative repo mirrors, aside from the IPFS ones?
<julicenri>
Getting some absolutely horrendous speeds from the main EU repos.
<extrowerk_>
julicenri: where are you located?
<julicenri>
Asia
<julicenri>
Should be noted that a mirror's speed isn't determined by its geographical location.
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<julicenri>
I'm getting ~9-15 KB/s with the HaikuPorts EU repo.
<julicenri>
Haiku EU repo is a fair bit better at ~300-480 KB/s, but far from maxing out the connection bandwidth.
<extrowerk_>
i think there is a russian mirror, have you researched that?
<julicenri>
Diver proposed getting Yandex to mirror the repos in the past, but that didn't seem to go through?
<extrowerk_>
yeah, you could ask Diver if he wakes up.
<extrowerk_>
lets bump a port for HaikuPorts. Oh, it needs a new lib, lets create a recipe for that. done. now it compiles, but fails to start, complains too old apsw. lets bump apsw to the current one. it complains the sqlite is too old. lets bump sqlite. it doesn't supports parallel builds. it takes ages. oh, the rabbit hole...
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<waddlesplash>
x512[m]: unlikely. the problems will manifest here either as hangs or panics
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<nephele>
humdinger: Do you have a webkit build to test the github stuff with? If not maybe I can ask vidrep_64 to test the fix for the merge issue you have
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<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://git.io/J19Gk
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<countryboy>
hello
<countryboy>
making a gift is simply a gesture of love ... ;-)
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<shaka444[m]>
Morning all.. I am Finally removing the last of my "foreign" Operating systems (Linux) and going Pure Haiku- thanks to the incredible work of this community, and specifically thanks to 1. improved printer support, 2. Boxed Wine (for a small app I ran in Wine) 3. Otter Browser being able to flawlessly access cirtain online databases I needed for work. and 4. LibreOffice. Haiku has been my main OS for maybe 5 years now but I had to keep Linux
<shaka444[m]>
around to bridge some real world needs but now I don't need to. FREE AT LAST! Which leads me to my next question- I need a speedy filesystem to copy files from my ext4 drive to Haiku. BFS_Fuse is slow and buggy. Should I use Ext2? BtrFS? exfat? Reiser etc..
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<rennj>
sshfs from haiku bfs to linux ext4...its just an sftp connection
<shaka444[m]>
but I have 100g to copy..
<rennj>
xorriso/mkisofs another way i move files between host os and guest vm's
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<rennj>
yeah i only get 5MB/s with haiku vmware e1000 nic
<shaka444[m]>
I'm going to benchmark various filesystems now on a usb drive
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) shaka444[m] if it doesn't have BeFS attributes, I like to use "nc" or "netcat" and tar to copy files over the network. "tar cv . | nc receiverip 12345" and on the other end "nc -l 12345 | tar xv" on gigabit ethernet you can get up to 100MB/s.
<PulkoMandy>
you should be able to mount your ext4 partition from haiku and read from it, I think?
<shaka444[m]>
Last I checked ext4 wasn't working only ext2 but I'll try again
<extrowerk_>
shaka444[m]: congrats. I roll with pure Haiku (except the NAS) since ~1 year or 2, i don't remember
<PulkoMandy>
our driver should support ext2, 3, and 4, even if the driver name is "ext2". Korli has added some features from ext4, but maybe not all of them yet. So you can run into errors at mount time if your disk uses features we don't have implemented yet
<extrowerk_>
rennj: you can use key based auth with sshfs
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<extrowerk_>
hmm.. i still frequently experience data corruption on my ramdisk. I git clone some programs there and cmake complains the file unexpectedly ends. If i check it it is really ends in a middle of a keyword or similar.
<extrowerk_>
no idea where it comes from, checkfs says the ramdisk is ok.
<extrowerk_>
git status also complains about git repo integrity.
<shaka444[m]>
PulkoMandy the ext4 drive mounts (yes it's labeled ext2..) and seems to work fine- transfering @ 50Mps. Nice!
<Diver>
PulkoMandy: I think it's better to rename ext2 driver to avoid confusion
<Diver>
it has happened too many times already
<PulkoMandy>
why do people look at the driver name? I have already patched it (years ago) to report the correct filesystem name in drivesetup
<PulkoMandy>
where else is it visible that the driver is named ext2?
<Diver>
in Tracker and Trac?
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<waddlesplash>
Trac doesn't really matter
<waddlesplash>
Tracker does, we should do something there
<waddlesplash>
extrowerk_: can you find a way that "consistently", or at least usually, reproduces? that may indicate bfs corruption
<Diver>
waddlesplash: wrt XSDL he hasn't written a recipe yet
<extrowerk_>
waddlesplash: git clones gets randomly corrupt, i would say 50:1 chance, or something like that.
<extrowerk_>
i don't have any proven reproduction way.
<extrowerk_>
this however never hapens on disk based BFS, only on ramdisk.
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<Begasus>
'lo peeps
<humdinger>
hullo Begasus et. al.
<Begasus>
hi humdinger !
<Begasus>
saw you finished up on StreamRadio, need to do a new test as I haven't been able in the last week :)
<humdinger>
sure, wait for the v1.0 relese to be out and test then... :)
<Begasus>
I did before, but not yet after :P
<Begasus>
Maybe some translated strings look better when changed ...
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/J1HpQ
<_Dario_>
nice to see a new version of SreamRadio! :)
<Begasus>
Atleast it's working again :)
<humdinger>
most of the fixes and gui changes were 'leaked' in a minor release recently, but we felt it's time to start with actual releases with a 1.0.
<Begasus>
Still not able to add some stations there though (but that was expected)
<_Dario_>
long time ago, I guess had some kind of 'memory leak'
<_Dario_>
I'm not sure
<_Dario_>
but will check with the new version
<extrowerk_>
waddlesplash: just cloned a project to RamDisk and it is corrupt again: http://0x0.st/-7Xa.txt
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<Begasus>
Translations looks pretty good, but this is one station I can't seem to add ... https://ibb.co/vPFY0jp
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<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] humdingerb pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://git.io/J1QIa
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] humdingerb 58b41e0 - PecoRename: bump to v2.0.3
<humdinger>
using github with the current 'rebased' webkit feels quite snappy.
<humdinger>
I like it!
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<humdinger>
It does take quite a while for updated packages to hit the HDS site, doesn't it...
<humdinger>
or is it stuck again?
<humdinger>
If anyone is interested in the current webkit libs: http://0x0.st/-7XW.zip [48 MiB]
<humdinger>
unpack and put a copy of Web+ beside the lib folder
<humdinger>
64bit btw
* humdinger
is idle: BRB
<waddlesplash>
extrowerk_: do we have a ticket?
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<Vidrep_64>
PulkoMandy, when I run the script to build HaikuWebKit I'm still getting this error, "ninja: error: '/packages/sqlite-3.34.1.0-1/.self/develop/lib/libsqlite3.so', needed by 'lib/libWebKitLegacy.so.1.8.3', missing and no known rule to make it"
<Vidrep_64>
Should I try deleting the "release" dirctory and try again?
<PulkoMandy>
if you have updated your install recently, you have sqlite 3.36 and not 3.34 now. So yes, deleting the release directory will clear that and set up the new path
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<Vidrep_64>
Yes, everything is updated. I'll delete and retry again
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<shaka444[m]>
anyone know why "grub rescue>_" prompt is coming up after clean install of Haiku? I delete the linux partition, created a haiku partition, formated to bfs, set it to active, even did a "makebootable"..
<augiedoggie>
probably just needs the boot sector written, it's in the Tools menu of the installer
<augiedoggie>
or the writembr command
<shaka444[m]>
ok trying that..
<nephele>
Shaka444: it means grub is not completely removed, we don't use it
<nephele>
(in the master boot record)
<shaka444[m]>
nephele i know, but what to do about it?
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<nephele>
what augiedoggie said above, normally the installer should have done this already though.. :)
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<PulkoMandy>
no, the installer won't touch your master boot record, in order to not break whatever you have installed on your computer
<shaka444[m]>
ok cool- writembr worked like a charm ;-) thanks augiedoggie
<PulkoMandy>
this is only erased by writembr, creating a new partition table in drivesetup, or installing bootman
<PulkoMandy>
our life would be simpler if Linux used the standard way to boot things, but instead they went their own way with grub
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 3 commits to master [+3/-0/±1] https://git.io/J1QuX
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] extrowerk dbf3960 - pyqtwebengine5: new recipe
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-2/±0] https://git.io/J1QVU
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli 6d53979 - qutebrowser: bump version
<Vidrep_64>
PulkoMandy, more changes...build again :(
<PulkoMandy>
you can ignore these last changes, it will make no difference if you don't enable logs
<Vidrep_64>
I'm still seeing the "text wrap" issue on GitHub
<Begasus>
heading down, g'night peeps
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<Vidrep_64>
The "Code" button is blank until you click on it. Then it turns green, and you can see the tag and URL
<nephele>
Yes, that text wrapping thing wasn't investigated/fixed further
<nephele>
intersectionobserver change should make some loading of stuff on github work now
<nephele>
like branch overview box
<Vidrep_64>
It looks like the outstanding issues are known
<humdinger>
thanks for those fixes, guys! much appreciated.
<Vidrep_64>
I was having trouble logging into my banking website yesterday with master. The current WebKit has no such problem.
<Vidrep_64>
Will try again shortly
<Vidrep_64>
Hullo humdinger
<Vidrep_64>
Thanks for the work to get StreamRadio fixed and 1.0.0 pushed out
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<humdinger>
the little I can do...
<PulkoMandy>
yes, didn't investigate or fix this one yet
<PulkoMandy>
not sure why the text layouting could be broken like this... it's strange
<PulkoMandy>
anyway, I'm doing an 1.8.4 release with this run of fixes, and I can do another one in a week or two when more issues are fixed
<nephele>
It's already a nice release i'd say
<nephele>
for text layouting, i'm also a bit lost, i don't think anything changed on the haiku side, it's really wierd, like... maybe it skews the size or something for calculating if text fits or something
<humdinger>
This from the Script Console of Web+ is much too vague to give any clues, right: :)
<humdinger>
it's from my bank site,where the login button does nothing.
<PulkoMandy>
the script console only logs things put there by website developers, and usually it will only make sense to them
<humdinger>
ok
<PulkoMandy>
(sometimes we can guess at problems from it, still)
<nephele>
for the intersection observer it was quite helpfull :)
<PulkoMandy>
in the latest commit I pushed today you can enable a lot more logging by uncommenting two lines in Source/cmake/OptionsHaiku.cmake
<Vidrep_64>
Logging into my bank and navigationg the site is working again.
<PulkoMandy>
then you get... probably too many logs. But that's possibly better than not having logs
<humdinger>
would be cool to have a logging switch as CLI argument for web+
<humdinger>
similar to haikudepot
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: I feel a bit stupid, i partially fixed some stuff you fixed now when using debug builds, but i didn't think to make a commit, would have saved some time :)
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<Vidrep_64>
PulkoMandy, is there a reason why the updated version of ccache (4.4.2) throws an error when trying to compile HaikuWebKit, wheras the current version (3.7.6) does not?
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<extrowerk_>
i managed to pay my dues with Haiku, great.
* nephele
reads that as "used haiku thumb drives as compensation method" :D
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<PulkoMandy>
I don't know, I don't use ccache
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<Vidrep_64>
I just checked the website. It looks like they've bumped the release to 4.5.1 now
<Vidrep_64>
It seems to make compiling HaikuWebKit go a little faster
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<nephele>
ccache is only usefull for sucessive builds, and then only if you compile the /exact/ file combo again, so probably two clean rebuilds after each other or so
<nephele>
webkit also uses unified builds, which make this less effective also
<nephele>
(but reduce webkits build time by a lot)
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<andreasdr>
Hi
<andreasdr>
Does anyone run Haiku with accelerant and a Radeon RX480?
<andreasdr>
It does do something but when accelerant initializes Display shows only black screen.
<andreasdr>
I have a 4k monitor.
<nephele>
waddlesplash has a 4K monitor with haiku, but i'm not sure what gpu he uses
<nephele>
in any case, please file a ticket, it will get lost on irc for sure ;)
<andreasdr>
I am on rev. 55641
<andreasdr>
Ok. Ill do.
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<andreasdr>
Also selecting another resolution from Bootloader does not do something.
<andreasdr>
Now Ill have a look at Falkon
<andreasdr>
Yaaaaaa.
<andreasdr>
Browsing is still a bit unsatisfying with Haiku. Super curious how it works with Falkon.
<extrowerk_>
andreasdr: plays my plex, therefore it is ok :)
<nephele>
selecting resolution from bootloader only affects up until the accelerant loads
<andreasdr>
What is plex?
<andreasdr>
nephele:Ah ok.
<nephele>
after it takes over it tries to initilize the display itself, and set its own resolution and tuff
<andreasdr>
Ok
<julicenri>
andreasdr: Crashy with heavier websites, but all of them eventually work with enough attempts.
<nephele>
depends on the accelerant and card what it does precise
<andreasdr>
julicenri: Ill check.
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<extrowerk_>
plex is a mediaserver
<andreasdr>
Ah cool!
<julicenri>
Thankfully since QtWebEngine is multiprocess, tab crashes don't usually take down the entire web browser.
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<shaka444[m]>
no HDMI Audio yet, correct?
<andreasdr>
Thats a very nice improvement.
<andreasdr>
:)
<julicenri>
When error messages appear, ignore them for now.
<andreasdr>
Ok.
<julicenri>
:D
<nephele>
There is also a new haikuwebkit version today, it is not build yet for haikuports though
<andreasdr>
Nice.
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<andreasdr>
What would be a good route for browsers on Haiku?
<julicenri>
Don't dismiss the error messages normally too, just click back to the Falkon window tab.
<andreasdr>
Ok
<andreasdr>
Just curious
<nephele>
a good route?
<shaka444[m]>
andreasdr: Otter Browser is one of the best at the moment
<extrowerk_>
andreasdr: get mozilla do their port
<julicenri>
The error messages may come in handy if a tab stops responding or on the rarer occasion that Falkon as a whole stops responding.
<extrowerk_>
and to get more people help with webP
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<andreasdr>
WebP uses a older Browserengine right?
<nephele>
If you mean the goal of have a nice native webrowser there really is only one option: contribute to haikuwebkit or WebPositive
<nephele>
andreasdr: no it does not
<andreasdr>
Is there a document available about Browser / Engine State in Haiku?
<andreasdr>
Would be a good read for me to get an idea.
<nephele>
I don't think there is, but you can ask me or pulkomandy i think
<julicenri>
nepheleL Well, theoretically nothing would stop a native web browser for Haiku built atop Blink. But that's a harder option, perhaps.
<nephele>
basically: we have a native port of webkit called haikuwebkit which powers WebPositive, you can check the bugtracker for kit/webkit for some stuff
<andreasdr>
Yes. But is nt Webkit a older thing?
<andreasdr>
There is already WebKit 2?
<andreasdr>
Sorry I usually use FF on all OSes.
<nephele>
julicenri: you mean apart from blink beeing a blackbox and google refusing to accept patches from any third party OS?
<andreasdr>
So I have no idea of current Web/Browser/Engines.
<julicenri>
Also, some of the existing Qt web browsers on Haiku like qutebrowser and Otter could be migrated later on to QtWebEngine.
<nephele>
andreasdr: webkit and webkit2 are the same engine and the same code, it is only a different API for the same engine, we currently use the webkit1 api (called webkitlegacy now), but there is some work to use webkit2 instead, it is not quite finished
<julicenri>
A couple of them have ended upstream QtWebKit support a while back, so migrating those to QtWebEngine would allow for pulling in newer releases.
<nephele>
yes, they probably should be, while our haikuwebkit is based on the latest webkit code pretty much qtwebkit is not, it is based on a really old webkit version (and doesn't really reflect webkit at all anymore)
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<nephele>
julicenri: In any case, in theory a blink powered haiku native browser could work, but the question is a bit why? We already have ported webkit and spend a lot of time to get the port this workable, if we start with blink now we have to basically throw that work away and start fresh, and then blink doesn't really use native apis at all, unlike webkit, so we would have a much much harder time to integrate it
<nephele>
properly into the OS
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<julicenri>
All fair points.
<PulkoMandy>
WebKit is the engine used by Safari on all Apple devices, by GNOME for their browser, and for the Playstation consoles at the moment
<nephele>
(webkit is responsible for severall app_server improvements for example, because we do use app_server drawing directly with it)
<julicenri>
But that multiprocess model is pretty useful.
<PulkoMandy>
it used to be also supported by Qt, and by Samsung for Tizen, and by Google for older version of Chrome (now they use their own engine and share it with Qt)
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<PulkoMandy>
the reason we picked WebKit is because it is designed to do just the web part, and let us do the other things mostly how we want: for example all graphics drawing uses our native API, which means for example text antialiasing will be exactly the same as in native apps
<nephele>
julicenri: I don't really know how different blinks multiprocess design is from webkit2's multiprocess design, but i doubt that it would be compelling enough in any case to switch to it
<andreasdr>
Ok so WebKit is still a thing.
<julicenri>
Yep, it's still alive.
<andreasdr>
Multiprocess browser sounds like a good thing also to me.
<PulkoMandy>
we had the multiprocess mode of webkit working during google summer of code two or 3 years ago
<andreasdr>
Ill see in 5 minutes
<PulkoMandy>
but then the student did not have time to continue working on it after GSoC and no one else had time to finalize the work
<andreasdr>
Damn
<julicenri>
Well that's unfortunate.
<nephele>
Feel free to help out ;)
<julicenri>
Tbh until Web+ becomes multiprocess, I'll prolly move over to Falkon despite the instability.
<andreasdr>
Id love to. But for now I am pretty busy still with our engine and game.
<nephele>
I tried falkon a bit, but lack of dark mode and it beeing really unstable (in spite of its multiprocess model) it didn't really convince me :P
<julicenri>
QtWebEngine at the moment also renders more websites with greater accuracy, although that might just be due to most webdevs optimising for Blink.
<andreasdr>
I am thinking of trying another DRM port attemt using AMDGPU. NetBSD has updated their DRM. Ill have a look soon how they have done it. Maybe they have a better Linux compat layer.
<nephele>
Honestly, in Web+ i get a crash only very rarely, and those i do get are tracked, and get fixed
<Vidrep_64>
nephele, the newer version(s) of ccache give this repeating error. Linking? "ccache: error: failed to link /boot/home/config/cache/ccache/tmp/tmp.cpp_stdout.ydynOI to /boot/home/config/cache/ccache/tmp/tmp.cpp_stdout.ydynOI.ii: Operation not allowed"
<julicenri>
Webdevs doing that due to Blink's increasing dominance over the web engine market is maybe a story for another time.
<andreasdr>
WebPositive works ok, but renders a bit slow sometimes. At least it looks like that
<andreasdr>
And it has some graphical glitches.
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* humdinger
waves
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<nephele>
Vidrep_64 no idea about that really, maybe haikuports bugtracker can help you out :)
<nephele>
If i can't get it to work I'll just deinstall it
<julicenri>
andreasdr: Yeah, the relative lack of graphical glitches in Falkon was rather surprising given the early state of the port.
<nephele>
why?
<nephele>
as i said before: blink is a blackbox
<andreasdr>
What about FF If I may ask? I have read somewhere that a GTK port is on the way?
<andreasdr>
Doesnt FF use GTK?
<nephele>
Firefox is not blocked on GTK
<julicenri>
It does use GTK, sorta.
<andreasdr>
x512[m]: Any news with your RADEON driver?
<andreasdr>
Super curious.
<nephele>
there used to be a firefox port on haiku, but it died like 10... 15 years ago, because of problems upstreaming patches. don't know exactly what the problem was though
<nephele>
:)
<andreasdr>
Damn
<nephele>
but porting firefox now is really hard and complex
<andreasdr>
Yes. All those browsers are MONSTERS
<andreasdr>
:(((
<nephele>
personally, i don't see the point to want to port either firefox or chromium, they plainly suck on every OS i have to use them, and firefox makes it a point to make every release worse than the previous one...
<julicenri>
Gecko is a big blocker and isn't as easy to separate from Firefox compared to WebKit and Blink.
<andreasdr>
Ah I see.
<dcatt>
what is the status of the GTK port to Haiku?
<nephele>
Funnily enough, one part of firefox is running on haiku, that is spidermonkey... because it powers 0AD :D
<nephele>
not that 0ad runs really... but it's ported
<andreasdr>
What is 0ad?
<nephele>
a game
<andreasdr>
Ah nice.
<julicenri>
It is possible to have Gecko without Firefox, such as on KaiOS and in Jolla Browser for Sailfish OS.
<PulkoMandy>
the firefox 2 port died because firefox 3 was basically "you must rewrite everything"
<julicenri>
But yeah, it's still a fair bit harder.
<PulkoMandy>
the developer was not interested in redoing all the work
<andreasdr>
I can imagine.
<andreasdr>
:/
<PulkoMandy>
and the same thing happened to firefox several times since then
<x512[m]>
andreasdr: I assembled driver components together (libvulkan_radeon.so, libdrm2, RadeonGfx) and do testing. Currently there are some problem with high GPU virtual addresses.
<PulkoMandy>
(various switches of programming languages, rendering engines, ...)
<andreasdr>
x512[m]: Nice. Do you already have some graphical output?
<x512[m]>
Not yet.
<nephele>
I also use epiphany if i can on linux, only have to use damn firefox for online classes :/
<andreasdr>
x512[m]: Crossssssing all my fingers!!!
<Not-5726>
[haiku/haikuwebkit] pulkomandy pushed 1 commit to haiku [+0/-0/±4] https://git.io/J1Q9K
<Not-5726>
[haiku/haikuwebkit] lonemadmax 908a9ca - Some updates to testing infrastructure
<nephele>
I suppose it's possible that online classes could work in falkon if the usb webcam driver was finished, that would give me an excuse to wipe ubuntu off of my hardrive
<julicenri>
Also for online sprints. ;)
<andreasdr>
Why not port netbsds uvideo driver. Man, one could do so many things If one would have time :(((
<andreasdr>
It does recognize my USB cam. But did not test yet if everything works.
<nephele>
what's an online sprint?
<nephele>
andreasdr: because we already have a usb webcam driver, why do we have to port everything?
<andreasdr>
Oh Ok.
<andreasdr>
Did not know.
<andreasdr>
No you do not have to do anything.
<andreasdr>
Just asking.
<nephele>
you could do the same thing that webcamd does for freebsd if you want: run linux usb drivers for random stuff in userspace
<shaka444[m]>
nephele: I st wiped Devuan off mine today :-D
<julicenri>
nephele: Online developer sprint, like last months.
<julicenri>
*month
<nephele>
juliencenri: If you mean the haiku sprint, i don't see the corolation?
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<nephele>
shaka444: devuan is wierd... they want to be "debian" but no systemd and with more init systems... but they somehow don't even have any proper service supervisors ported as an alternative to systemd service supervision
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<nephele>
atleast back when I used it :)
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<andreasdr>
Any news about ARM port? :D
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<BrunoSpr>
hi all just updated to the new intel extreme driver. Now i cannot reach my deskbar to change the screen preference
<andreasdr>
Ok. I need to reboot. See you in 5 mins
<BrunoSpr>
the driver changed all! workspace resolution
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<BrunoSpr>
how to open the screen preferences in Terminal?
<nephele>
/system/preferences/Screen
<BrunoSpr>
ah thx nephelle
<BrunoSpr>
why did i not remember
<BrunoSpr>
old man here
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<nephele>
BruonSpr: I'm Happy it's not some dbus voodoo invocation like on linux sometimes :)
<PulkoMandy>
you don't need dbus to do this, just the xrandr command. But indeed it's easier to remember that the command to change screen videomode in haiku is called screenmode
<andreasdr>
Falkon: Seems to be much snappier when scrolling. :)
<andreasdr>
But does not play YT
<andreasdr>
Damn
<andreasdr>
Why is scrolling so much better?
<andreasdr>
Its the first browser that does not feel slow.
<andreasdr>
Also twitter runs nicely
<andreasdr>
Ok it does crash very often, but when it runs it runs greatly.
<andreasdr>
I am impressed.
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: i mean, to open settings panels
<nephele>
and xrandr doesn't work anymore if your distro uses wayland or whatever
<nephele>
andreasdr: i assume you disabled "animated scrolling"?
<andreasdr>
nephele: I just installed Falkon on my Haiku. Thats all. And this looks very much promising.
<nephele>
I think that is kind of funky, for me WebPositive was the first browser to not fell slow after other browsers on other OS, but maybe that is just also because of our general low input latency, it can probably be improved though
<andreasdr>
Falkon runs much more smoothly here on my machine than WebPositive and Otter and so on.
<andreasdr>
Which I never understood because I have a monster machine as work station.
<andreasdr>
Let me check WebPositive
<nephele>
I don't understand why "more power => better running software" should be true
<andreasdr>
I just want to tell I have a great machine. So I expect software to run smoothly.
<nephele>
web browsers worked just fine on machines 10 years ago, why would a better computer make it any smoother
<andreasdr>
Web Browser got much more complicated the last 10 years.
<andreasdr>
I guess.
<andreasdr>
And much more complex.
<andreasdr>
So of course things have changed the last 10 years.
<andreasdr>
AFK 5 mins
<nephele>
WebPositive works fine on my 2004 laptop :)
<andreasdr>
Ok.
<andreasdr>
Well I use FreeBSD, MacOSX and Windows regulary in this particular order. I have some sort of compare.
<andreasdr>
No worries.
<nephele>
Anyhow, slowness of WebPositve is not because of lack of computing ressources
<nephele>
it's more stuff like not caching stuff, bugs, etc
<nephele>
gross misrenders a bit more :)
<nephele>
I want to work on stuff like that too, at some point, but I prioritize stuff like crashes, freezes and
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<PulkoMandy>
caching stuff costs memory, if you don't have enough of that, you won't go very far with trying to make it faster this way :)
<nephele>
With infinite memory you would only have to do each piece of work once :D
<PulkoMandy>
you could precompute everything, yes
<andreasdr>
People today tend to make use of memory as most machines have lots of memory available these days.
<PulkoMandy>
and replace all functions with huge lookup tables
<andreasdr>
In their software.
<nephele>
yes, chromium uses lots of memory to do nothing
<andreasdr>
Thats true.
<andreasdr>
Browsers use way too much memory.
<andreasdr>
Forgot about that :P
<andreasdr>
:D
<PulkoMandy>
conversely if you had an infinitely fast cpu you could compute everything instantly and wouldn't need any memory :p
<andreasdr>
Ill go grab something to eat.
<nephele>
computers nowadays might aswell be infintely fast cpus in comparison to once 20 years ago
<win8linux[m]>
There is one possibly terrifying drawback to Blink working on Haiku: Electron may follow soon afterwards.
<win8linux[m]>
:P
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<nephele>
We don't have blink, we have qtwebengine
<PulkoMandy>
well electron is going to happen someday anyway
<nephele>
Electron doesn't use qtwebengine, it uses CEF afaik
<Vidrep_64>
I was reading the thread on the mailing list about a timeline for a Haiku Beta release. It looks like something that should happen before everyone gets too involved in any mentoring for GCI, GSOC or whatever.
<PulkoMandy>
the right way to "avoid" that is making great native apps
<PulkoMandy>
GCI doesn't exist anymore
<win8linux[m]>
QtWebEngine is based on Blink, is it not?
<nephele>
Does that mean we have to make a native matrix client to avoid people porting electron with element? .-.
<nephele>
win8linux: blink with its guts ripped out kinda
<nephele>
it's a chromium qt hybrid :P
<nephele>
doesn't get us any closer to a native blink or chromium port whatsoever
<win8linux[m]>
Yeah, not a particularly big leap from there to Electron.
<win8linux[m]>
*dun dun dun*
<PulkoMandy>
no one is going to force you to install and use the electron apps :>
<nephele>
Indeed
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<win8linux[m]>
Heh yeah, but imagine a time when most of HaikuDepot is Electron apps. :P
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<nephele>
win8linux: that would be because of the repos you enabled
<win8linux[m]>
In all seriousness though, that won't happen due to HaikuPorts policies IIRC.
<nephele>
We have policies against electron=
<nephele>
?*
<win8linux[m]>
IDK, it's been a while since I read the HaikuPorts policies.
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<win8linux[m]>
Ah, HaikuPorts does not allow web-based apps that statically link web engines.
<win8linux[m]>
That description applies to almost all Electron apps.
<win8linux[m]>
Any Electron apps ported would require modification to use a separate package containing the web engine.
<win8linux[m]>
Or perhaps a systemwide Electron package.
<win8linux[m]>
At least, for inclusion into HaikuPorts.
<nephele>
I don't see a conceptual problem with distributing a package with web content that uses the OS browser engine for display in an isolated invorment
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<nephele>
conceptually that is not too far off to love2d games, that could include the engine, or have one installed in the OS and use that
* Anarchos
finally to manage its own local network , to test haiku boot by network
<PulkoMandy>
well, even if haikuports allowed them, it would take days to build each of them on the builder, recompiling the whole web engine from scratch, which would be annoying
<PulkoMandy>
but I'm sure someone will host them in another repo
<PulkoMandy>
there is really no reason to build them from source at haikuports anyway
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<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy what is the size of a haikuports repo if i want to host one ?
<PulkoMandy>
I don't know, I'm not part of the sysadmin team
<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy ok no troubles
<nephele>
1.8.4 is working nicely :3
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<PulkoMandy>
I can't get haikuporter to download the source archive so I can put the SHA256 in the recipe and push it :/
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<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy download by wget ?
<PulkoMandy>
that's what haikuporter is doing
<PulkoMandy>
but it's very slow today and eventually there is a timeout
<PulkoMandy>
I'm getting around 60KB/s, supposedly I have gigabit fiber access here, but for some reason it doesn't deliver :( (not sure if it's bugs in haiku tcp, in network drivers, or in the modem or somewhere else on the network)
<waddlesplash>
PulkoMandy: maybe it's that "network slows down after a long time" issue that we still haven't fixed
<PulkoMandy>
it's slow also on a freshly booted machine on another thing
<Anarchos>
waddlesplash i wonder if a checksum sent on irc can be trusty enough :)
<PulkoMandy>
I think someone is crawling my website (lots of http connections) and the router provided by my ISP has trouble with making so many NAT rules
<PulkoMandy>
let's ban useless crawling bots and see if it goes better
<nephele>
Anarchos: good question!
<nephele>
if that is the trust problem i could send the shasum per email ;)
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<nephele>
I have the checksum because I modified the recipe myself for 1.8.4, heh
<PulkoMandy>
well if github doesn't agree with the checksum, we know you got it wrong :D
<nephele>
I figure either it's the right sum, or the build will fail in 5 minutes and show the correct one
<PulkoMandy>
waddlesplash: speaking about weird network issues, if I leave my laptop in KDL for a few minutes, it ends up crashing my router. Not sure how to even start debugging this :D (and it's probably the router doing something wrong anyway, not us)
<waddlesplash>
probably
<waddlesplash>
likely something where the network device hits some timeout and tries to do DMA on invalid data or something
<waddlesplash>
and the router can't handle invalid packets
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<PulkoMandy>
well, if we indeed send garbage on ethernet during all the kdl session, it's not great
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<snale>
Hey there
<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy it coule be easy to monitor with wireshark on another computer ,no ?
<Anarchos>
hello snale
<snale>
i hope this works, first time using this IRC client
<nephele>
Well, I can see your messages, hello!
<snale>
good enough :D
<PulkoMandy>
Anarchos: it depends what the router does with the traffic. Normally it won't route invalid ethernet frames to other machines. So I would need to reproduce this while having another computer connected directly (no switch or hub). And even then, if things don't look like valid ethernet data, it will be dropped by hardware or drivers before wireshark can capture it
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<snale>
I wonder if it's just my installation but I cannot get the IRC client (Vision?) to work on Haiku itself. I am currently chatting from another OS hence
<snale>
It crashes randomly while trying to change settings like servers or username
<snale>
to the point of softlocking the entire OS as the debugger cannot be closed without the program exiting, but it cannot exit, and it cannot shut down as long as the debugger is running.
<snale>
it's a mess.
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<snale>
welcome dziban
<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy last solution : plug in a logic analyzer ?
<dziban>
hello!
<PulkoMandy>
yes, if nothing else works I could try that
* Anarchos
never used such beasts as logical analyzer
<nephele>
snale: you can always use ctrl alt delete and then kill everything you want in that menu (in TeamMonitor)
* Anarchos
stays away from those wild beasts…
<waddlesplash>
snale: that's strange behavior, not at all typical I would say
<PulkoMandy>
well, unkillable apps happen if they are stuck inside system calls. Which can be because of problematic drivers or hardware, for example if you are running from a cheap USB drive that has a lot of random read/write errors, it can make things very slow and unstable
<PulkoMandy>
Vision was not that bad last time I used it, but that was maybe a year ago at this point
<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy i always run vision, it runs very stable here
<nephele>
Last time i Ran vision i also could get it to crash with server selection and such, but for me that is also quite some time ago now
<dziban>
I've been running haiku natively for a couple of days too in a really old thinkpad W500 from like 2008, so far so good
<Anarchos>
dziban 2008 is not 'rally old'
<snale>
Mine is an Acer Aspire 7738G, which is also... pretty old
<snale>
which is from 2009 iirc
<dziban>
I mean, yeah sure, compared to old Be machines is not *that* old, but for a computer nowadays, 2008 is pretty old
<rennj>
primitive boat anchors
<rennj>
i got a sun e3500 to sell you, meet me under the bridge
<Anarchos>
dziban i still have a K6-2 i intend to boot on haiku
<Anarchos>
rennj i will just by a sunfire enterprise ;à
<snale>
A laptop from 2008 is now as old as the very first Mortal Kombat, or Street Fighter 2 when the Wii had its peak.
<Anarchos>
snale sure but innovation stale in computer world
<snale>
True too
<dziban>
that's true
<Anarchos>
so less difference from a pc of 2021 vs 2008 than 2008 vs 1995
<dziban>
I think the difference is durability, most laptops I could buy today would probably be dead by 2034
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<snale>
God I wish the IT world wasn't so mainstream and corporate infested anymore...
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<Anarchos>
snale it was worse in the 90...
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<snale>
I think there was at least some amount of accessibility for basic hacking back then while today everything is locked down and "secured".
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<snale>
Surveillance is also much worse now
<snale>
Also more groundbreaking and basic change cannot be made anymore; most conventions are set in stone because everything new depends on decades of work
<snale>
i.e. try implementing system wide mail accounts like in Haiku, in another OS. Wouldn't work because it hadn't been there from the start and no third party programs would use it
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<snale>
welcome bitigchi
<bitigchi_2>
hi snale
<snale>
hows you today :)
<bitigchi_2>
good, you
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<x512[m]>
Maybe some wrong buffer stride settings.
<waddlesplash>
do you have this code pushed anywhere yet?
<waddlesplash>
I guess it's part of the radeon_hd accelerant right now?
<x512[m]>
It is libdrm2 (libdrm API implementation and driver loader) and RadeonGfx (low-level userland graphics driver). radeon_hd.accelerant is only used to init AtomBIOS and post graphics card.
<x512[m]>
Code is not published yet. It is quite messy because of testing and investigating how graphics card works.
<waddlesplash>
well, may as well publish it anyway on github :)
<waddlesplash>
depending on how large it is, if this really does work, it may make the most sense to just integrate it with Haiku directly
<waddlesplash>
I imagine that will require a lot of cleanup though.
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<waddlesplash>
how much of this code is Southern Islands specific though?
<x512[m]>
Currently it run only on Southern Islands Verde GPUs. Adding support of other GPU generations should be not too hard, but it need adding a lot of conditional code depending of generation. I do not want to do it until driver cleanup.
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<waddlesplash>
sure, makes sense
<snale>
quit
<snale>
oof
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<rennj>
space madness
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<rennj>
with large sprites and parallax scrolling effects
<waddlesplash>
x512[m]: I guess we'll have to see how much work it really is to maintain our own driver code
<waddlesplash>
if nothing else, the userspace-drm stuff is probably invaluablke