<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://git.io/JMGgI
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 2a19446 - haiku-svg-icon-theme: bump version
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<Begasus>
let's see if we can get this sbcl building for 32bit ...
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<Begasus>
nope ... :/
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<HaikuUser>
I installed Haiku alongside my Arch Linux partition, and the linux partition was detected during the installation of the Haiku Bootloader. However, I now can't boot into my Linux partition, while Haiku works fine.
<humdinger>
"generated" is a folder linked from another volume, if that matters. Worked for years though...
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<cap10morgan>
I'm trying to build haiku master for x86_64 (so I can start learning to contribute), but I cannot get it to build. I've followed the instructions on https://www.haiku-os.org/development/ on the following hosts: Haiku on real x86_64 hardware, Haiku on an x86_64 qemu VM on an arm64 Mac, cross-compiling from arm64 macOS, and cross-compiling from arm64 Fedora. Am I starting at the wrong place trying to build master? Should I start
<cap10morgan>
with a tag (r1beta3?) instead? It seems to fail with a different error message every time, but a recent one on the Haiku on real hardware host is: `debugger() called: Dup() succeeded but descriptor is NULL` while it's trying to run `../build/scripts/build_haiku_package ...`. Any tips to get something building and booting in a VM?
<nephele>
r1beta3 is the last beta, the nightly branch is quite a bit further, could you open a ticket with the error you get? https://dev.haiku-os.org
<cap10morgan>
I can try on nightly branch
<humdinger>
nephele: me or the captain?
<cap10morgan>
I seem to get a different error every time, and it's hard to tell what error is the cause of the build failure. but I can try. :)
<nephele>
but i might be doing something different to what you are doing :)
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<cap10morgan>
I have followed the instructions on https://www.haiku-os.org/development/ in a new (but updated) installation of Haiku r1beta3, and it doesn't seem to work. Seems like there might be some things most successful devs have setup / do as standard practice that hasn't made it into those docs?
<cap10morgan>
hmm... no nightly branch. :) nightlies are built from master?
<nephele>
Ah, my build is also a couple of days old...
<cap10morgan>
I've tried several over the course of the last few days (git pulling in between) to see if issues get fixed, but no luck
<nephele>
cap10morgan: Unless you open a ticket there is really no way to know what is wrong
<nephele>
The build instructions are expected to work, anyhow
<nephele>
and if they do not then either the build or the documentation is faulty :)
<cap10morgan>
yeah, it's just hard to know what to put into the ticket. there's no obvious smoking gun. I'll give it a shot though. I guess in part I was curious when the last time an experienced dev went through those instructions in a pristine environment and made sure they're still soup-to-nuts.
<nephele>
Include the revision you build on, the command for the build and the output log
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 6ed123e532b5 - intel_extreme: always assume panel on eDP on laptops.
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<nephele>
humdinger: my build fails for the application kit .-.
<humdinger>
also complaining about the IMIE db?
<humdinger>
MIME
<nephele>
I think it is having trouble with the linker for some reason
<nephele>
/bin/sh: line 2: /boot/system/develop/tools/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-haiku/8.3.0/../../../../x86_64-unknown-haiku/bin/ld: No such file or directory
<nephele>
no, it's a different place in the build
<humdinger>
bugger
<humdinger>
good news: web+ used to log out of the user guide tool when sending a translation/change the first time. Now it seems to work!
<humdinger>
\o/
<humdinger>
thought there were a ticket for it, but can't find it.
<humdinger>
oh. no it's not gone... :(
<humdinger>
apparently it only messes up when sending a translation.
<humdinger>
block-editing the original works
<nephele>
Heh, yes... It'd have suprised me if it were gone
<cap10morgan>
dcatt: I use it and took a crack at building it on Haiku, but the issues there made me realize I need to learn a lot more about Haiku's internals first. So fixing fish is why I'm now trying to build Haiku (the yaks to shave just get bigger and bigger :P).
<humdinger>
nephele: it's recommended to do "jam -q" to have it stop near the actual error.
<nephele>
humdinger: doesn't matter that much if you use severall jobs, it did stop near it anyhow :P
<humdinger>
ok
<dcatt>
cap10morgan best of luck to you in getting it working
<Imporntant[info]>
Haiku needs a store
<cap10morgan>
dcatt thanks!
<dcatt>
Imporntant[info] I have to agree... HaikuDepot obviously serves its purpose well but an app store (front) could compliement it
<Imporntant[info]>
something between BSD ports and flatpak
<waddlesplash>
cap10morgan: I already fixed that problem, you indeed must use a nightly tho
<Imporntant[info]>
its the new old thing every OS needs a store
<waddlesplash>
nephele: you need to run configure --update due to compiler updates
<cap10morgan>
@waddlesplash which problem?
<waddlesplash>
dup error
<cap10morgan>
ok but I need to run the build on a nightly host?
<waddlesplash>
yes, and you also must have a totally up to date tree
<cap10morgan>
ok I'll give that a try
<waddlesplash>
however, if you are on 64bit you must build the cross tools to compile Haiku
<cap10morgan>
yep, development page mentions that and I've been doing it
<waddlesplash>
unless you only need haiku.hpkg. the cross tools are needed to build the bootloader
<nephele>
A store? for what?
<nephele>
waddlesplash: I'm booting via efi, a future build option to skip the MBR loader may be neat
* humdinger
is idle: BRB
<extrowerk_>
cap10morgan: current fish uses locale_t which is not available on Haiku.
<extrowerk_>
Somebody made a fork and removed/replaced locale_t stuff with haiku compatible things, it builds, but doesn't really runs.
<extrowerk_>
MAybe you could use that as inspiration.
<cap10morgan>
extrowerk_ yeah I noticed :) we'll see if I get back to it at some point. thanks for the link!
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<waddlesplash>
nephele: in the future please put long compile logs in attachments and not ticket descriptions :p
<nephele>
Why?
<nephele>
It's not that long :)
<waddlesplash>
because makes annoyingly long emails
<nephele>
Ah... I have not considered that
<waddlesplash>
anyway like I said the problem is that you must rerun configure
<nephele>
Yes, i read that
<waddlesplash>
or really just configure --update
<waddlesplash>
ok
<nephele>
I'll close the ticket once my compile finishes
<cap10morgan>
just out of curiosity: can you install haiku into GPT drive w/ qemu's UEFI boot option? last time I tried (r1b3), it wouldn't boot haiku after. had to go back to bios + intel partition map.
<Imporntant[info]>
coulf haiko be the next steamOS?
<extrowerk_>
I don't think Haiku's installer cares too much about the partition layout.
<nephele>
debugger() called: Dup() succeeded but descriptor is NULL, was that the issue you had?
<nephele>
Imporntant: A bad debian clone neglected by valve?
<nephele>
cap10morgan: Installer only copies files, it does not care where to
<extrowerk_>
but you still have to manually place the efi file on your EFI partition. MAybe you forgot to do that?
<extrowerk_>
The installer currently *doesn't* automatically put the file there, therefore the user have to do t manually.
<cap10morgan>
nephele yeah installer wasn't the issue. booting from the installed drive after was the issue.
<cap10morgan>
extrowerk_ since I wasn't aware of a need to do that, yes, I "forgot" :P
<extrowerk_>
It is written in the release notes.
<waddlesplash>
and on the booting efi page
<nephele>
Waddlesplash: now build fails for all three packages :/
<Imporntant[info]>
every OS you can install steam becomes SteamOS
<nephele>
same with _devel and _datatranslator
<extrowerk_>
you are supposed to read the guide, not just assume it is next-next.
<waddlesplash>
nephele: you must be on a very recent tree and haiku install.
<waddlesplash>
in order to not have that problem
<nephele>
... I need to compile an intermediate hrev?
<nephele>
Ugh
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<nephele>
which one?
<waddlesplash>
nephele: oh, you don't just install updates?
<extrowerk_>
Imporntant[info]: ask valve. They can give you more info.
<waddlesplash>
nephele: what hrev are you trying to compile now?
<cap10morgan>
extrowerk_ ok thanks for that pointer, that's why I asked. I try to read all the relevant things I can but missed that part
<nephele>
waddlesplash: No, i do not, i have some patches that make the OS more useable for me, like a color inverted kernel debugger ;)
<waddlesplash>
nephele: is it not the very latest?
<nephele>
I'm trying to build hrev55667 on hrev55618
<waddlesplash>
ok
<waddlesplash>
so there is a workaround
<waddlesplash>
you have to compile src/build/libbe/storage with -O1
<waddlesplash>
add that to jamfile and touch all files
<nephele>
In src/build/libbe/storage/Jamfile?
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<waddlesplash>
yes
<nephele>
Thanks, that seems to have fixed it :)
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<waddlesplash>
you can remove that once you are running with _devel packages from the newer hrev
<nephele>
Yeah, build suceeded
<nephele>
I wonder, is there an easy to way to publish installed/downloaded packages as a repository in the local network?
<nephele>
I usually copy with scp, but that is a bit annoying to do :)
<nephele>
Maybe even publishable with zeroconf, then we can get the shasums from haikuports master (or proper signing) and download from remotes in the LAN automatically
<cap10morgan>
anyone else not getting key repeats when you hold down a key in a haiku qemu vm?
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<nephele>
waddlesplash: should i attach KDLS aswell, or do those work inline?
<waddlesplash>
those are generally short enough yeah
<waddlesplash>
nephele: ask jam to make a repo and then serve over http?
<nephele>
not sure what you mean by that
<nephele>
I don't know of any place where i could ask it to make a repo of all installed packages
<nephele>
that seems more like something to be solved by an automatic service
<extrowerk_>
on my company laptop i run windows 10. I started to use its virtual desktop feature to divide the different topics to different "workspaces". It "almost" as good as Haiku's own virtual desktop implementation, the only difference: Haiku's one always works, while on windows10 the explose like effect sometimes breaks everything. Also sometimes the button which starts the expose-like effect sometimes just doesn't do anything.
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<extrowerk_>
But most of the time it works, so i use it.
<nephele>
Sysinternals virtual desktops has worked properly on windows for me, for windows 7 and such
<extrowerk_>
One problem what i noticed is you start a program on one virtual desktop, lets imagine the program takes long time to start up, so it shows a splashscreen. You see the splashscreen and navigate to a different workspace to check your emails and appointments, TADA.WAV your program opens above your outlook, because "i don't care where you did started me, this is the active workspace, i WANT my window to cover all your precious windows."
<extrowerk_>
Why is computing so hard?
<extrowerk_>
btw the same happens on Haiku too.
<Imporntant[info]>
good point
<extrowerk_>
I understand this is just not considered in Haiku yet, but on Windows? It is like desktop computing was made intentionally as annoying as possible.
<nephele>
Yes it does, but there is no good way to fix it currently in haiku
<nephele>
Maybe it is a problem because they tacked on virtual desktops like 20 years too late...
<nephele>
windows already has massive problems if you use more than one monitor
<extrowerk_>
Imagine doing manual window management in 2021. Thats what windows does.
<extrowerk_>
I am either born 100 years too late or 100 too early.
<Imporntant[info]>
i think its configured like this so that you don't open a program and forget about it
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<extrowerk_>
Ok, the fact my company-laptop refuses to update *outside* of the company network and i wasn't i nthe office in the last ~2 years doesn't make the situation better. Interestingly it refuses to update even if i am connected to the company VPN. But also outlook cannot send emails if i am connected to the company VPN, because.... reasons.
<nephele>
that makes no sense, the computer should work for me, not try to decide what i work on
<extrowerk_>
Imporntant[info]: an operating system should not think for me.
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<extrowerk_>
Imporntant[info]: but if thats the reason why it works like i described, then at least provide me a "I am not Karen" checkbox, so i can opt-out from this.
<nephele>
maybe you are using the wrong OS for that
<Imporntant[info]>
and its extra annoying if you open porn pic and suddenly pops up at the wrong time
<extrowerk_>
But i actually think this is somehow related with backwards compatibility, probably some virtual-desktop unaware program would glitch if they were forced to one desktop.
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<extrowerk_>
also the splashscreen is not the real program window, but a separate one, so one can argue, the program was actually started as the actual window popped up, and the user was on workspace-x, therefore it have to pop up there.
<extrowerk_>
Or some similar bs explanation.
<extrowerk_>
nephele: i don't know any OS which provides a Karen checkbox, also it is a company provided laptop, i use what i have to use.
<nephele>
I am happy to not have any company provided anything with an operating system on it ;)
<nephele>
Splashscreens itself are a misfeature
<Imporntant[info]>
you should be able to tell a program only run at predefined desktop
<Imporntant[info]>
virtual or otherwise
<Imporntant[info]>
i think KDE has this
<Imporntant[info]>
workplaces or something
<extrowerk_>
Splashscreens themselves arent a misfeature. OEM-specialized programs, which you can't start with a simple icon from the desktop, but only through a hal java/half python/half Tk based "starter-tool" which sets up the environmental variables IS a misfeature, because the program itself supports to disable the splashscreen through an env var, but you can't influence the env-vars in the starter tool, so you can't disable the splashscreen.
<extrowerk_>
Imporntant[info]: i had KDE4 desktop for a considerable amount of time, i did not cried as i shredded it.
<nephele>
I don't think there is any good justification for a splashscreen, thus a misfreature
<extrowerk_>
yeah.
<nephele>
their only reason seems to be to hide how bloated the applications they start are, from a file size perspective
<Imporntant[info]>
a splashscreen is veryusefull so that clueless users dont start clicking and end up with 10 instances of the same programe
<extrowerk_>
The program i use need a license, obviously it is FlexLM. So i have to be connected through VPN and use the Start-Tool-NET to start my program, or i can borrow/check-out the license for local usage (which i mostly use), and then i have to use the Start-Tool-LOKAL. Obviously and understandably this 2 start-tool starts the same program, but with different config folder, so your precious shortcuts won't work if you start the program with
<extrowerk_>
the other starter tool.
<nephele>
The question I would ask is: why does the user click 10 times, is your app too slow to start, and more importantly, why does it even matter if 10 instances are open
<extrowerk_>
Desktop computing is so glitchy like a glitch-art.
<nephele>
companies are too afraid you might "steal" their software so they put chains on your wrists so you can't run away while using it ;)
<Imporntant[info]>
your app is too slow to start and 10 instances take alto long to open
<Imporntant[info]>
alot*
<extrowerk_>
Nah, the starter tool is required, because every OEM uses a different "standard way of doing things". They made the CEG associate to provide a well known common ground, but then they started ignore what CEG said. So we now have MAN/Volvo/Ford/Daimler/Porche and whatever else CATIA.
<extrowerk_>
Each and every whith their own 2 set of settings (lokal and net).
<extrowerk_>
Good luck
<extrowerk_>
Also if something goes wrong admins simply connects through teamviewer and deletes your profile folder, because who cares about your settings except you?
<Imporntant[info]>
im sure there must be a way to tell the app to use just one instance
<extrowerk_>
Imporntant[info]: you mean the SINGLE_RUN attribute in Haiku?
<nephele>
B_SINGLE_LAUNCH and B_EXCLUSIVE_LAUNCH
<extrowerk_>
yep, that
<Imporntant[info]>
Haiku is checking all the boxes he?
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<nephele>
imagine an OS where each app had an identifier and the only who had to care about managing instances was the process that launches them ;)
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<nephele>
depends on what your boxes are i suppose
<Imporntant[info]>
the same as any sane person
<Imporntant[info]>
SINGLE_RUN attribute can be set clicking the left icon on the program bar?
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<Imporntant[info]>
not sure if haiko has left icon on the bar thou
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<nephele>
No, it's a flag you define for the programm
<Imporntant[info]>
that something windows don't have and that its very useful
<Imporntant[info]>
thats not very user frienflly
<Imporntant[info]>
im using xfce and that menu is very nice to have
<Imporntant[info]>
you can roll the window and send to other desktop
<Imporntant[info]>
very andy stuff
<Imporntant[info]>
handy*
<Imporntant[info]>
put window on top
<Imporntant[info]>
im sure you are familiar with it
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<nephele>
not really, i don't know what you are talking about, I haven't used desktop linux for quite some time
<nephele>
don't think I've ever used xfce
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<Imporntant[info]>
okay i feel for you
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-1/±0] https://git.io/JMnYl
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 7e8033a - vamp-plugin-sdk, bump version (#6442)
<Imporntant[info]>
you have this same menu if you left click the profram bar
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<Imporntant[info]>
program bar
<Imporntant[info]>
just foun that out
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<Not-5726>
[haiku/website] humdingerb pushed 1 commit to master [+14/-17/±6] https://git.io/JMnG3
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<AlwaysLivid>
am i the only person who cannot run teeworlds in a vm properly?
<Begasus>
running a build for latest texstudio, so can't check atm (32bit or 64bit?)
<AlwaysLivid>
64bit, i just get a white screen
<Begasus>
If not today I'll check tomorrow
<AlwaysLivid>
i also tried to finish the thing with ddnet that i was working on, i have no idea how to fix the issue where cmake won't see some freetype2 headers/libraries using proper variables
<Begasus>
on 64bit it should be OK I think? (freetype)
<Begasus>
if not, maybe add an issue at haikuports?
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<Begasus>
heading down here, cu peeps
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<x512[m]>
How to detect that process is terminated by server? For example when app_server close windows of crashed process.
<x512[m]>
RadeonGfx driver in server mode need ability to detect crashed clients and disconnect them freeing resources.
<waddlesplash>
app_server may get notified by the registrar, not sure?
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<x512[m]>
Well, how Registrar do that? PID pooling or something smarter?
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<waddlesplash>
start_watching_system
<waddlesplash>
but probably you should also use registrar notifications instead of this directly
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<LegendaryAmerican>
ok un-enabling vesa mode to see if we got through the intel issue.
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<LegendaryAmerican>
nope. still stuck in vesa mode.
<LegendaryAmerican>
which means theyre still working on the intel cards they pulled out last month
<LegendaryAmerican>
used to work before beginning on intel gfx work last month.
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<LegendaryAmerican>
we need a hotkey that list all the hotkeys
<LegendaryAmerican>
with a hotkey list manager.. so application creators can enter theirs.
<LegendaryAmerican>
some are fairly universal. alt t in terminal does the same thing as alt t in web+
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<LegendaryAmerican>
most all terminal commands work in web+ which is pretty awesome. from the standpoint of someone who uses content creation and control software across multiple platforms.. its a godsend.
<LegendaryAmerican>
only tab completion doesnt work in web+
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