<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 18e885db5115 - boot/efi: implement convert_kernel_args for 32-bit
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<Anarchos>
my new fan stutters and stops when haiku starts. I have to launch it manually (with a needle). Is it something we can do , maybe raise voltage level of the fan if it stutters ?
<nephele>
Hi Anarchos, did you see my message before?
<Anarchos>
nephele no sorry, which message ?
<nephele>
For the radeon review, Please put yourself as author of the change, and also i think it would be better to not turn off the LCD at all with a brightness of 0 asked
<Anarchos>
nephele i just copied code from linux
<nephele>
that may be, i think linux is just wrong here
<Anarchos>
nephele ,hmmm could you elaborate why it is wrong ?
<nephele>
turning off the LCD when the slider is to the left is an unrecoverable situation for the user
<nephele>
this brightness call accepts 0..1 as arguments, i think it should never turn off the LCD, the intel_extreme driver also used to turn it off with low brightness but was fixed to have a minimum brightness, i think we should keep this behaviour for radeon_hd aswell
<Anarchos>
ok . I just leave the mouse on the slider in case i select 0, in order to slide it back to a positive value...
<Anarchos>
but makes sense to be able to recover.
<Anarchos>
what should be the minimum value ?
<nephele>
I'm not sure if there is a hardware specific minimum value we can easily discover, maybe 0 is the minimum value that makes sense also. But the call of turning off the LCD and turning it on shoudl be removed
<nephele>
if that is even required at all
<nephele>
So replace the last if else stuff with include transmitter_dig_setup(connectorIndex, pll->pixelClock, 0, 0, ATOM_TRANSMITTER_ACTION_BL_BRIGHTNESS_CONTROL);
<nephele>
The button on the right side of the window tab
<Dhruvagole[m]>
I also did not understand what "Suggested behavior is best fit, to deactivate scroll bars" means?
<Dhruvagole[m]>
Where is the suggested behaviour specified?
<Dhruvagole[m]>
and do we want to "deactivate" scroll bars?
<nephele>
The ticket author wants the zoom button to resize the window in a way that the window size becomes the minimum size required to display all content without scrolling
<nephele>
<nephele>
so it's not about disabeling the scrollbars, but just making the window big enough that they become automatically grayed out because they don't have anything to scroll
<nephele>
For example: if you open a tracker window and use the zoom button it will try to make the window exactly as big as needed to fit all directory entries into the view, disabeling the scrollbars. but not bigger
<Dhruvagole[m]>
Ah ok I think I understand now
<Dhruvagole[m]>
but I think this is already being done isnt it?
<nephele>
Anarchos: I'd say, you can test if on your hardware if using 0 as a value still has the backlight on, and if it isn't then see if 1b still has the backlight on (1/256)
<Dhruvagole[m]>
In the SS above, the window is "un-zoomed"
<Dhruvagole[m]>
And now when I click the zoom, it resizes in such a way that the scroll bar does grey out if the entire file is able to be displayed in the zoomed window
<nephele>
Dhruvagole: Ah, the ticket is about the printer preferences specifically, it's only mentioned in the component and not the description, so i can see that this is a bit harder to tell
<nephele>
For many applications this indeed already works correctly
<nephele>
Dhruvagole: https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/8665 This is the "meta" ticket linking to specific tickets for specific applications/preferences
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<andreasdr>
Hi
<Dhruvagole[m]>
nephele: I think reading that meta ticket helped me make more sense of it.
<Dhruvagole[m]>
I have so far succeeded in cross compiling haiku on my host PC running Ubuntu, and then booted the generated image from Gnome Boxes.
<Dhruvagole[m]>
So the obvious next step was to tinker around the source code and so I was wondering what it was that I could do that could prove useful to the haiku community as a beginner.
<Dhruvagole[m]>
Is there any legacy code that need restructuring / improvements?
<nephele>
You can certainly port third party applications that you feel are missing, usually that is done with haikuports, i wouldn't expect something like htop to ever make it into haiku proper since we already have gui stuff for the same tasks
<nephele>
personally I kind of liked to have pkill on haiku, but have since gotten accustomed to just using ctrl alt delete and killing process there, it's not really that different imo :)
<nephele>
To get started you could just use it a bit and pick out something that annoys you and try to improve it, we certainly have a lot of areas that need improvement ;)
<Dhruvagole[m]>
Ah I see haiku is more gui-user-targeted than CLI is it?
<nephele>
Yes
<nephele>
The CLI is there, and the posix userland is there (though, really posix... not /that/ much linux stuff) but normal users are not expected to have to use the Terminal
<nephele>
Above with making into haiku proper i ment, i don't expect this to be shipped in release images, but you can submit a patch to haikuports and users can then download it from the repositories if you want to use an app
<andreasdr>
Hi nephele
<nephele>
I for my part started on haiku dev with a random fix to the time preferences to fix a unix2038 bug... and now i've somehow gotten to maintain the webrowser, :P
<nephele>
(well, one among severall people with eyes on the webrowser)
<Dhruvagole[m]>
ah web browser is something I still haven't been able to locate :P
<andreasdr>
When I use Haiku I see lots of tasks that can be done (Improve buildin email, improve tracker menu item mouse over state, improve bluetooth (audio), printers can not be connected via network, fix crashes e.g. Games did crash on resize, ...)
<andreasdr>
...
<nephele>
It's called WebPositive, and it is build on the webkit engine
<Dhruvagole[m]>
Its called webpositive I se
<andreasdr>
GLFW3 does not yet support setting application icon, copy and paste, ...
<Dhruvagole[m]>
I think we should also have a minimize button ?
<nephele>
yeah airprint/ippeverywhere is a big thing, if you want to work on that :P
<andreasdr>
I need 3d hw first, then I think Ill look into issues that prevents me to use Haiku 100%
<andreasdr>
Because this is what I do like 99% on my computer.
<Dhruvagole[m]>
I am just a little scared to try out haiku on my actual laptop yet, it has NVIDIA GPU and Idk if haiku has nvidia drivers yet
<Dhruvagole[m]>
Hence I keep using VM
<nephele>
We do for ancient cards, for yours.... maybe probably not
<Dhruvagole[m]>
GTX1050
<nephele>
but all haiku drivers are modesetting drivers, so if vesa/efi gives you the correct resolution you can just use that and it will work just aswell
<nephele>
you can also just boot the installation medium and choose live mode to check out if it works without doing anything permanent to your system, it will work the same as the installed system
<nephele>
(the installer is just a clever copying tool :P)
<Dhruvagole[m]>
will balena be OK to create a bootable drive?
<nephele>
Dunno, I've always used cp
<Dhruvagole[m]>
what is the dmesg equivalent for haiku?
<andreasdr>
cat /var/log/syslog I think
<nephele>
=> /var/log/syslog
<Dhruvagole[m]>
how do I view the boot/system logs?
<nephele>
but it is not only the kernel log
<andreasdr>
StyledEdit /var/log/syslog
<andreasdr>
lpe /var/log/syslog
<andreasdr>
Both should work
<Dhruvagole[m]>
what if we alias dmesg to do something similar in haiku? :)
<Dhruvagole[m]>
maybe users coming from linux will find that a little ocmforting?
<Dhruvagole[m]>
comforting *
<nephele>
I think that is not such a good idea, users will assume it will work "just as linux" and then get hit with something much worse later on ;)
<nephele>
(and also commandline utilities that expect commands to work a certain way will suddenly misbehave if ported, i think that if you want dmesg on haiku it would be better to implement it in a way that it actually behaves like dmsesg does on the other unices)
<nephele>
I think i have used this tool to create bootable thumb drives on windows: https://rufus.ie/en/
<andreasdr>
You could do a Haiku Package that provides a simple dmesg application. Then user can decide if he wants it :)
<nephele>
I've never used the etcher tool... using a webrowser to essentially copy a file seems very alarming to me
<andreasdr>
But I also see the point. Haiku is not Linux or BSD.
<andreasdr>
Etcher works great.
<andreasdr>
I am using it a lot
<Anarchos>
andreasdr tail -f /var/log/syslog | grep radeon_hd works fine to get only last logs message, filtered by a topic
<andreasdr>
Sure.
<nephele>
Maybe haiku should log stuff with BMessages, then we have a binary log too :)
<Dhruvagole[m]>
hmm, there is another issue in terminal.
<Dhruvagole[m]>
Can someone verify if watch -n ... works for them?
<nephele>
watch has seriously bitten me before
<Dhruvagole[m]>
I tried "watch-ing" the syslog but the output was really distorted and weird
<nephele>
because this is one command like that: on FreeBSD it does something completely different than on linux
<nephele>
Dhruvagole: what command did you try to watch...?
<nephele>
if you do watch -n you are effectively reopening the file with cat every n seconds, reading the entire thing and then only looking at the end stuff, tail is actually made for just that usecase :P
<Dhruvagole[m]>
Another suggestion, clicking on Applications should also launch a search bar
<nephele>
(and tail doesn't need to have any polling interval, i don't know if that is done so currently but with file change notifications it should display changes instantly)
<nephele>
"clicking on applications", you mean like the tracker window that pops up?
* Anarchos
sighs to see that our openjdk14_default port is unable to detect i use a french keyboard... So KeyEvent.VK_Z should not be my 'w' key ....
<nephele>
it's not very discoverable
<Anarchos>
Dhruvagole[m] to launch a search bar, just install quicklaunch
<nephele>
Well, you can click on the applications label
<Dhruvagole[m]>
In the ss above, just above the activity monitor if there was a text field that if use started typing would automatically seach in the list of apps
<Dhruvagole[m]>
user*
<nephele>
we usually use type-ahead filtering, like in all tracker windows
<nephele>
but yes, that should be implemented, nobody did it
<Dhruvagole[m]>
something like all other DE's and even windows does is, if you click on start you can start typing and search for apps
* Anarchos
repeats : install quicklaunch
<nephele>
quicklaunch is completely different to that...
<Dhruvagole[m]>
yeah what I am suggesting is far minimal, just a basic text scan in the list of apps
<Dhruvagole[m]>
also the "super" key could be mapped to launching the "feather" menu? or else something like a search bar
<nephele>
Could be a good first ticket ;)
<nephele>
The feather menu is already opened by the menu key
<nephele>
we use the super key for something else: Stack and tile, move a window by its tab and then hold super to try it out
<Dhruvagole[m]>
> Could be a good first ticket ;)
<Dhruvagole[m]>
which particular ?
<nephele>
the one i posted above that message
<nephele>
it's about the type ahead filtering in deskbar
<Dhruvagole[m]>
ah yess that was what I was suggesting
<nephele>
If you want you can work on this
<Dhruvagole[m]>
Whatever the OP has described I also wished there was
<Dhruvagole[m]>
> If you want you can work on this
<Dhruvagole[m]>
hmm, will start digging into this then.
<Dhruvagole[m]>
* > If you want you can work on this
<Dhruvagole[m]>
hmm, will start digging into this then.
<nephele>
Why post that twice?
<nephele>
anyhow, deskbar has many improvement areas, I think many people would be happy with type ahead filtering working there :P
<Dhruvagole[m]>
just to be clear on the definition, by type ahead you mean
<Dhruvagole[m]>
>Typeahead search is a method for progressively searching for and filtering through text. It is also sometimes known as autocomplete, incremental search, search-as-you-type
<nephele>
Yes, open a tracker window for a folder and start typing a name of a folder to try it out
<Dhruvagole[m]>
So, when I hover onto the "applications" and then start typing, it then starts to shortlist the apps for me in that menu and highlight the text that I have type.
<Dhruvagole[m]>
have I understood correctly?
<nephele>
It should display the current text input somewhere and eliminate non matching entries
<Dhruvagole[m]>
> Yes, open a tracker window for a folder and start typing a name of a folder to try it out
<Dhruvagole[m]>
Ah this is sweet. this is exactly what I would want to quickly search Applications
<Dhruvagole[m]>
Alright then I will start exploring source code of how "name of a folder" thing works, and then try implementing it in the Applications menu.
<nephele>
just beware that tracker and deskbar are the only code actually from BeOS in haiku, and even through extensive cleanup they are still a bit "wierd" in places, so don't be afraid to improve them ;)
* Anarchos
cough, blue menus are not modifiable but virtual folders...
<nephele>
they can be modified Anarchos
<nephele>
you can put deskbar entries to ~/config/settings/deskbar/menu to overwrite them for instance
<Anarchos>
nephele sure, but i resign to change Preferences for Préférences...
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<nephele>
yeah, that doesn't work really :/
<Anarchos>
nephele and they must be localized...
<nephele>
Indeed, the localization should improve
<nephele>
I've tried to show the system to my grandmother and she already failed to use it because the german locale ignores the "translate application names" preference :(
<nephele>
The suggestion of vertical tabs or tree tabs for WebPositive doesn't sound bad to be honest
<Anarchos>
nephele i finally managed to send all the modifications asked
<nephele>
This is probably unecesary, did you test?
<nephele>
(Also you still have me listed as the author)
<nephele>
also, for the commit message, don't describe what you did in relation to the previous one, because this will be the commit that lands in the haiku tree, and the previous ones will not so it will be confusing out of context
<nephele>
Otherwise it looks very good already :)
<Anarchos>
nephele well i did test that with BLON it works :) i didn't test if it was indeed superflous...
<Anarchos>
nephele i don't know how to change author
<nephele>
yeah, might be interested
<nephele>
either git reset --soft HEAD; and then commit it again or
<nephele>
git commit --amend --reset-author
<nephele>
second option should be easier i think
<Anarchos>
anyway, i tested to put the generated accelerant in ~/config/non-packaged, but it crashed.
<nephele>
without the backlight on thing? or do you mean something else?
<Anarchos>
nephele just to put it there while haiku is running. but if i restart all is fine
<nephele>
ah well, i don't think that is that relevant to the final version, not like users change the driver at runtime :)
<Anarchos>
nephele i thought haiku could change accelerant on the fly…
<nephele>
probably, it wouldnt have crashed if it didnt try that
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<Dhruvagole[m]>
one question, do I have to rebuild everything even at the slightes change or is there a way to do "incremental" builds? Ie. only build files that are affected by the change and reuse the rest.
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<Anarchos>
Dhruvagole[m] jam do incremental builds, though it takes a long time to construct its internal database of files needing compilation.
<nephele>
Jam will do incremental compilation if you build everything once, but you need to specify a target so it will not build the default stuff (which would be the release image i think)
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<Dhruvagole[m]>
OK
<Dhruvagole[m]>
Can someone point me to the source code guide, I am not able to find where exactly the code is for the file manager and the BeOS style "Applications"
<nephele>
file manager is src/kits/tracker and src/apps/tracker iirc
<nephele>
the thing providing the menu is called deskbar, it should be in src/apps/deskbar
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<Vidrep_64>
Hi humdinger
<humdinger>
hullo
<Vidrep_64>
Don't run away, I'm not going to bug you about BurnItNow :D
<humdinger>
Anarchos: both should work, I guess.
<humdinger>
:)
<humdinger>
Anarchos: you could also point your haikuports.conf to that chackout
<humdinger>
*checkout
<Dhruvagole[m]>
is there a sort of "inspect element" that I can do to pinpoint the code behind a particular feature in gui?
<humdinger>
Dhruvagole[m]: I don't think so. I guess you'll have to grep for the widget's label etc. in the source
<Dhruvagole[m]>
OK
<Dhruvagole[m]>
The thing is I dont really know what it is even called, so my guess is that FindPanel is what it's called when we type something in the file manager and it finds the folders/files containing that string for us
<Dhruvagole[m]>
but it could as well be something else entirely, so I am not sure how to be sure 😅
<humdinger>
When it comes to Tracker, PoseView is more often than not the answer... :)
<humdinger>
ah. I searched for "# items" as the display down there is "plural-aware" and found it in "CountView"
<humdinger>
HTH
<humdinger>
at least that is where the entered type-ahead string appears
<Dhruvagole[m]>
I did find some type-ahead stuff inside CounView... But also inside PoseView
<Dhruvagole[m]>
but a comment inside CountView does say
<Dhruvagole[m]>
>defines the status area drawn in the bottom left corner of a Tracker window
<humdinger>
yes. the entered string appears in the countview, but the actual tracker window file list has to be filtered ofc
<Dhruvagole[m]>
right, so the filtering is done in poseview
<humdinger>
as just about everything. :) PoseView is notoriously complex.
<Dhruvagole[m]>
I still dont get the naming convention, why countview? Which views is it counting? Why not name it like searchBox or something?
<humdinger>
it's counting the number of files in the current folder
<humdinger>
I suppose that feature came before the filtering
<waddlesplash>
BeXlib development is basically now in the "debug weird problems" phase, not very fun...
<x512[m]>
What wield problems?
<waddlesplash>
well, right now the one where Tk overdraws its whole window with blank
<waddlesplash>
this appears to be because Tk puts an internal background element in front of all control
<waddlesplash>
however, as the exact same version of Tk works fine under SDL2Tk on Haiku, clearly this is somehow a problem I am causing :)
<waddlesplash>
there's also the problem that FontForge rapidly gets "stuck" and quits processing events, but I don't know if I really care to debug that one as I intentionally picked an old FontForge version
<waddlesplash>
wxX11 has a lot of problems but nobody uses it even on Linux so I think I may just skip debugging that too. It also needs some obscure XCopyPlane features that I don't really want to implement anyway
<Dhruvagole[m]>
it's funny that I should get any errors like this:
<Dhruvagole[m]>
```./headers/posix/size_t.h:9:10: fatal error: stddef.h: No such file or directory```
<Dhruvagole[m]>
does someone know how to fix/
<Dhruvagole[m]>
?
<Dhruvagole[m]>
just in another folder I built haiku and it built perfectly fine. Idk why it failed just now, without me having made any changes to the source
<waddlesplash>
make sure you have devel packages installed on your system
<waddlesplash>
and also that you didn't mess up the crosstools
<Dhruvagole[m]>
I am going to try copy pasting the successful build into the folder where it is not working
<rennj>
what about proper FS support
<rennj>
filesystem support xattrib foobar
<waddlesplash>
Dhruvagole[m]: that sounds like a bad idea...
<Dhruvagole[m]>
but it actually worked, got a new image successfully
<rennj>
you building haiku on unsupported FS
<Dhruvagole[m]>
oh will that be an issue?
<rennj>
what FS?
<waddlesplash>
most FSes are supported at this point
<waddlesplash>
only a few exceptions
<Dhruvagole[m]>
I just built haiku yesterday on my ubuntu machine and it booted up alright, I infact have been using this the whole day
<waddlesplash>
yeah, you're probably fine
<rennj>
on ext2,3,4 ?
<rennj>
wrong!
<Dhruvagole[m]>
yep
<waddlesplash>
rennj: those are supported.
<Dhruvagole[m]>
ext4
<waddlesplash>
they're non-ideal but they are supported
<waddlesplash>
XFS is preferred on Linux as it supports arbitrary-length extended attributes
<Dhruvagole[m]>
will building haiku on a vm give me any good performance though?
<rennj>
documentation said xfs,btrfs needs xattrib
<Dhruvagole[m]>
on a haiku* vm
<waddlesplash>
rennj: xfs/btrfs are preferred, but extfs work OK thanks to a fallback we have
<rennj>
i dont believe that is documented
<waddlesplash>
website documentation often falls behind I guess
<waddlesplash>
but I'd be surprised if it didn't show this. we've had this for a decade
<rennj>
haiku needs 1 binary of mednafen
<rennj>
this libretro retroarch failure
<rennj>
retro-arch fails on r1beta3 32bit
<rennj>
its a sickness at this point with these bloated frontends
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<rennj>
advmame has the duke nukem theme.."let's rock"
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<x512[m]>
Maybe it will be nice to have Haiku headless mode without screen.
<nephele>
I figure BSD is a nice OS to run on servers with Haiku as my client
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<Anarchos>
x512[m] i think if you don't run tracker, you are pretty close to headless, though i am pretty sure haiku will still need an application server to run
<x512[m]>
app_server is still needed, for example it is needed to draw on offscreen bitmaps. But it can run without graphics driver and framebuffer.
<x512[m]>
For now it is just fails and infinitely restarts if no graphics drivers can be used.
<Anarchos>
x512[m] that's why i built my own network with some machines : to test all those crazy tweakings to haiku source :)
<nephele>
x512: a headless installation that provides remote app server could be interesting at some point too
<x512[m]>
nephele: Yes.
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