<Begasus>
extrowerk_, did you get a chance to look into my comment on the PR for libsmb2?
<extrowerk_>
not yet, sorry.
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<Begasus>
no hurry :)
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<extrowerk_>
Begasus: do you have any info about the state of lazarus on 64 bit?
<Begasus>
extrowerk_, there is fpcupdeluxe in haikuports now, with that you can build your own fpc/lazarus install (on both arch's)
<Begasus>
I then used lazarus to build cudatext, worked fine
<extrowerk_>
i see, thank you.
<extrowerk_>
i am eyeing with this doublecommander, which needs lazarus
<Begasus>
let me know how it works out, I'm not too familiar there, and cudatext has a script that one can run in Terminal, only needed to give it the path to the place were lazarus is installed
<Begasus>
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:59:44 +0200
<Begasus>
Subject: [grafx2] Re: Ready for final 2.0 release !
<Begasus>
long time ago PulkoMandy ;)
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<extrowerk_>
Begasus: lazbuild command fails with libiconv: missing symbol.
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<Begasus>
did you build with fpcupdeluxe?
<Begasus>
let me boost up 64bit
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<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-2/±1] https://git.io/JyiXN
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 94f3885 - Avidemux: bump version
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<extrowerk_>
waddlesplash: you told me once the iprowifi4965 is in better state than the idualwifi7260, and AFAIR you said it is faster. Do i remember correctly?
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<Begasus>
extrowerk_, I see it also, needs investigation :(
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<nagerst>
what version of gcc is mainline builds of haiku on now?
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<nielx[m]>
gcc 11.2.0
<nielx[m]>
though that's for the cross buildtools. I am unsure whether the installable package has landed yet
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<Begasus>
it has :)
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<Begasus_32>
gcc version 11.2.0 (2021_07_28)
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<nagerst>
awesome
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<chakuari[m]>
Installed Haiku on my Asus eeePC 1001PXD. Seems to work fine.
<Begasus>
nice chakuari[m]
<Begasus>
diver, if you launch Strawberry does it launch in your local language?
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<Begasus>
bbl
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<countryboy>
hello
<countryboy>
is my translation work ok ?
<countryboy>
on pootle ?!?
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<countryboy>
i am andrea77
<countryboy>
the password is a secret xD
<nielx[m]>
which language are you translating to?
<countryboy>
italian ...
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<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports.cross] kallisti5 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JyXiw
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<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] humdingerb pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] https://git.io/Jy1Us
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] andimachovec 69a9c73 - New recipe: Peggy (#6502)
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<n0toose>
hi, i brought up to the forum moderation team which i am not a part of that some sort of rule for not taking dunks on moderators directly because they took a publicly documented moderation-related decision has to come up, as people and resident trolls throwing hissy fits in random forum threads doesn't make up for a quite friendly atmosphere
<n0toose>
we are moving the discussion here from another channel
<humdinger>
n0toose: I still don't see the connection between his post and your flagging comment.
<humdinger>
it's actually quite on-topic for a change.
<n0toose>
i mean, considering the context was that the person mentioned was previously attacked and then implicitly dragged with an entire thread over enforcing censorship, is it really?
<n0toose>
questioning decisions and calling the leadership abilities and judgement of one into question =/= personal attacks, right?
<humdinger>
To me, it's a thread about a sort of funding, and Mr. Scollins expresses his optinion, funding is needed.
<humdinger>
but where does he do that in that post?
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<n0toose>
how does "wow, thank god we received donations" connect with "waddlesplash is a piece of po--, wait i completely misinterpreted the meaning of the original post
<humdinger>
:)
<n0toose>
"be on a tear" means "have great success" and i misread/misinterpreted that as "has been tearing apart"
<humdinger>
Ii think both x512 and waddlesplash get actually commended on their work :)
<humdinger>
all good then
<n0toose>
yeah, i completely missed the mark here, my bad
<humdinger>
np
<n0toose>
there's no rule section and the standard policies apply on the forums, just to be 100% sure, right?
<humdinger>
I think there some netiquette somewhere....
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<nephele>
mmu_man: can that, and the one you posted yesterday, be viewed at a later time? I've missed the one you posted yesterday but could not figure out from the interface if this was possible
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-0/±0] https://git.io/Jy1s7
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus b3394d3 - strawberry, new recipe, icon provided by 3dEyes (#6503)
<Begasus>
n0toose, ... always...?
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<jmairboeck>
nephele: normally all the talk recordings can be found somewhere on media.ccc.de
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<Begasus>
heading down, cu peeps
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<mmu_man>
kallisti5: now ^
<mmu_man>
use the "Translated" track in the player
<kallisti5[m]>
what kind of operating systems exist... bootloaders
<kallisti5[m]>
oh man.. I wonder if anyone payed attention to me in the sifive forums
<kallisti5[m]>
attrib.c:(.text+0x0): multiple definition of `ffs'; objects/haiku/riscv64/release/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/ntfs/mkntfs.o:mkntfs.c:(.text+0x0): first defined here
<kallisti5[m]>
geeze.. what is going on
<nephele>
thanks mmu_man, I can watch the talk now, i think
<nephele>
... nevermind, pulseaudio has just decided to not make that possible. That's what i get for booting into ubuntu i guess
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<mmu_man>
eh
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<nephele>
It sais the stream can be downloaded, I'll watch it later in MediaPlayer :)
<humdinger>
almost works with Falcon under Haiku...
<humdinger>
can't pause. and after a few seconds it just seems to buffer
<nephele>
Streaming Media in Web+ kinda works. if you have enough RAM
<humdinger>
oh well. almost.
<humdinger>
wen trying web+ the site says my browser doesn't support it
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<nephele>
... Well, if you go on iteroni.com you can watch videos, Maybe it wants to use some specific features we don't have enabled
<nephele>
or maybe it's just going "that's not google chrome"
<humdinger>
that would suck, coming from the CCC :)
<nephele>
Well, it did play in falcon, if they only did a user agent comparison it would have failed there too probably
<nephele>
I don't suppose the site said /why/ it is unsuported?
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<mmu_man>
kallisti5: you can ask questions on twitter/mastodon with #rc3r3s #r3s
<kallisti5[m]>
all stuff i'm aware of so far :-)
<humdinger>
nephele: just says my browser doesn't support the playback of that video.
<humdinger>
I'm supposed to use another browsr, they suggest. :)
<nephele>
humdinger: oh well. Maybe they put more in the browser console :)
<julicenri>
Oh, was thinking more of RISC-V HW support.
<x512[m]>
Linux use syslinux boot on RISC-V if I remember correctly.
<kallisti5[m]>
julicenri: we support anything u-boot runs on
<julicenri>
Is Linux still not booting to desktop on RISC-V?
<kallisti5[m]>
the presentation didn't include a desktop :-)
<x512[m]>
julicenri: I haven't seen any Linux RISC-V images that can boot to desktop with UEFI.
<mmu_man>
well they are kernel nerds they don't care about a desktop :p
<julicenri>
Did someone ask a question involving Haiku?
<julicenri>
I'm not in the stream chat.
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<x512[m]>
They have strange idea to install Linux on firmware SD card. It is something like installing Linux on BIOS ROM chip.
<x512[m]>
Possible, but why?
<nephele>
I used to compile linux with an loaded initramFS to a kernel EFI image to put an entire distro in my ESP :P
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<kallisti5[m]>
x512: everyone wants to treat the unmatched like a big raspberry pi
<kallisti5[m]>
aka.. everything crammed onto an sd card
<kallisti5[m]>
It's kind of silly... especially given the slow speeds of the unmatched mmc
<julicenri>
mmu_man: Fair, but Haiku's kernel is also interesting. :D
<Scarecrow>
doesn't it have SATA so you can avoid the SD card?
<kallisti5[m]>
it has nvme
<kallisti5[m]>
and usb
<Scarecrow>
either of those are probably more suited to putting your / onto
<nephele>
Scarecrow: / is virtual in haiku anyway
<Scarecrow>
metaphorical /
<kallisti5[m]>
pretty much, we should be putting the bios on the sd card... then booting from usb / nvme
<kallisti5[m]>
bios being edk2 or u-boot
<nephele>
Anything other would be silly :P
<julicenri>
How fast can Haiku boot from NVMe on the Unmatched?
* humdinger
waves
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<kallisti5[m]>
heh. there's a bug in our boot loader atm
<kallisti5[m]>
if we see a haiku partition on the nvme, we will refuse to boot :-)
<Scarecrow>
I've got a pinephone and running the OS from the SD card is pain, it's a really good thing it has real storage
<kallisti5[m]>
we still have a lot of bugs including an issue booting right now on qemu and the unmatched
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<kallisti5[m]>
x512: qemu no longer works after gcc11 as well :-(
<nephele>
why would you run the OS from the sd card even? It kind of makes sense if you use somethign like run-from-ram like alpine linux does on the rpi, but other than that...
<julicenri>
Doesn't Genode target the PinePhone?
<julicenri>
Seemed like an odd choice for Genode to target a smartphone, but the HW is fairly widespread and well-documented.
<nephele>
Why? isn't their entire stick that OS as a concept is obsolete?
* julicenri
shrugs
<julicenri>
Anyways if there'll be anyone looking to get Haiku on the PinePhone in the future, hit me up.
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<julicenri>
I will be ready for testing and debugging.
<nephele>
I'm devided on that. I do want something /like/ Haiku for phone, but i don't want to run most Haiku applications on the phone, that is a bit goalpost moving. I think if we want to target a phone we should first figure out a proper intereaction model for that, and then only allow applications that have specific support to run on it, delegating the rest to a "if you hook it up to a TV" setup
<nephele>
So for example an application normally has an entrypoint, if it supports a mobile experience it would have a completely seperate entrypoint, different UI layout etc. for this mobile experience. We already know just fine how to use different entry points so that shouldn't be a problem, i think this is the best way if Haikus tech stack is used for Phones
<nephele>
Also means: we can have one application run two UI's potentially, one in the "phone" UI and one on the "desktop" UI
<nephele>
In any case, if this is done, it might be smart to not call this Haiku or cover it in the Haiku umbrella until it is well thought out and developed :)
<nephele>
(Call it Maple :P, you know, like maple leaves in the logo)
<Scarecrow>
The whole super-multithreaded thing would work really well on phone hardware. Lots of bad cores is the name of the game.
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<julicenri>
Haiku is also fairly light and would prolly perform better on low-end HW like the PinePhone.
<nephele>
hat would not do for nice bug reports)
<nephele>
Yes, it might be nice, there is also a risk inherent in this: Haiku works so well on the Desktop because we care /explicitly/ about the desktop. A lot of linux UIs switched goals to support fablet/phone too as a formfactor and massively degraded their UI in the process. If we split this up internally It could work. (Aslong as nobody can just "recompile Vision" and then complain it runs bad on their phone, t
<julicenri>
Should be noted that it is possible to connect a USB-C hub to the PinePhone and use it as a portable workstation.
<julicenri>
Convergence Editions come with more RAM and a USB-C hub with Ethernet, HDMI, and multiple USB ports just for that exact usecase.
<nephele>
Honestly, the "plug in my phone to a TV and now i have a computer" usecase is the #1 thing I think is missing from all this stuff, it saddens me that android does this so terribly and only on some devices (Androids window manager is garbage), and iOS doesn't do this at all even though they clearly could
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<x512[m]>
Completely different GUI shell is probably needed for smartphones.
<julicenri>
What about only having a basic mobile interface with just apps for calling, messaging, hotspot, and hardware settings?
<nephele>
I agree, x512
<julicenri>
Then if Haiku detects an external display, output the regular interface there?
<nephele>
It would require a different implementation of something like Deskbar, and the Tracker
<nephele>
And then for most applications a different UI
<Scarecrow>
while we're thinking about it, either the UI toolkit or the shell should provide navigation buttons and toolbars along the bottom
<nephele>
(DeskCalc for example might be an example that could work... but then also, mobile calculators are garbage, i keep pulling out my physical one, maybe we can do ebtter! :D)
<nephele>
Navigation Buttons are not really usefull on a mobile interface IMO
<julicenri>
The idea is that Haiku on a phone would just be like a basic phone, until an external display is connected.
<nephele>
either have HW buttons or don't have them
<Scarecrow>
GTK software having the "Back" button in the opposite corner to my finger is pain)
<nephele>
julicenri: that would be doable indeed
<julicenri>
Tracker will only be on the external display.
<nephele>
Scarecrow: in my Biased view I'd use the "move view from left to right via swipe" action to perform a back, if we need a back at all. Back buttons are a terrible UI on the phone, android is hard to use without soft buttons because of this interaction model
<Scarecrow>
as long as it doesn't require me to hold the phone in two hands I'm happy
<nephele>
iOS and SailfishOS use this model for example
<Scarecrow>
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to use a phone with one hand when all the buttons are 6" away from my finger, y'know? :p
<nephele>
I just buy a small phone
<nephele>
:D
<julicenri>
Plasma Mobile too, especially the apps.
<Scarecrow>
Alas, PinePhone only comes in 6" absurdhuge size
<Scarecrow>
:<
<x512[m]>
I prefer tablets, it also can run regular desktop UI.
<julicenri>
The Kirigami apps it uses are all heavily focused around one-handed use along the bottom edge.
<nephele>
tablets are a bit... eh. they seem like the worst of both to me
<nephele>
it's a more usefull phone but a less usefull desktop
<Scarecrow>
I need to try Plasma again soon, it was pretty unstable when I tried it.
<Scarecrow>
Anyway, just wanted to get the fact that there are people that want to use devices with only one hand out there while people were discussing mobile interfaces. :)
<nephele>
Well, I mean. If we want to make "something like haiku on a phone using the haiku stack" we could start right now :P
<nephele>
make an irc channel or something
<nephele>
I'd call it Maple, like Maple syrup and we could start talking about some initial UI concepts?
<nephele>
(Funnily enough my laptop has a WWAN modem... so I could even code a Phone app for it)
<x512[m]>
I still have no smartphone. Only classic phone and x86_64 tablet.
<julicenri>
Maybe wait until the ARM64 port is further along.
<nephele>
Julicenri: why? UI development is unrelated to architecture bringup
<julicenri>
Oh, that part's fine.
<nephele>
and if we want Haiku to run on the pinephone that would probably only be done during such a project anyway
<julicenri>
UX design prototyping can start anytime. :D
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<nephele>
we can use the test_app_server to simulate a phone form factor aswell
<nephele>
julicenri: I think, I'll make a forum topic with some initial ideas, that should be more discoverable than an irc channel
<nephele>
Here's hoping it does not get turned into some ideological debate over whether phones are evil...
<nephele>
mmu_man: I think to really design a UI it would be usefull to look at existing phone interaction models, interaction models of the PSION, interaction models of pocket calculators, interaction models of similar devices, and then think about one :)
<nephele>
how it looks in the end... that is more a late minute consideration, but "how" do you use it is way more important
<win8linux[m]>
Yes, this will require a fair bit of research into mobile interaction models.
<B2IA>
(Butler) Welcome to BeShare.agmsmith.ca.
<win8linux[m]>
After all, the phone interface should be basic and focused since it will really only have a select few apps and settings.
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<win8linux[m]>
In phone mode, Haiku will just be like a dumbphone except with toggles for WiFi, BT, and mobile data for hotspot functionality.
<win8linux[m]>
Regular Haiku apps won't run in phone mode and there won't be a HaikuDepot or equivalent.
<win8linux[m]>
An update tool maybe, but that's as far as graphical package management goes in that mode.
<win8linux[m]>
I'll just hash out more details in the forum post.
<win8linux[m]>
Hmm wait, does Haiku support USB-C and its alternate modes?
<win8linux[m]>
That's useful even for desktops and laptops.
<nephele>
We support usb-c there is nothing "special" about that, i don't know about alternate mode, but we currently don't support external additional displays at all
<nephele>
win8linux: I don't see a reason why "regular" apps cannot run, if they have been properly ported. For example Renga (the XMPP client) could run if a new layout is made for the mobile view
<win8linux[m]>
It's intended more like to keep the scope limited while it's starting out and development focused.
<x512[m]>
I have experimental external display support with RadeonGfx.
<nephele>
I don't see a problem with that, but i predict that If i work on it I will port Renga at some point
<x512[m]>
Even hot plug events works.
<nephele>
x512: we also had some with really old drivers, I hope you can make a generic solution for the app_server
<win8linux[m]>
Once the essentials are solidified, then retooling regular apps for the phone mode can come next.
<nephele>
"retooling"?
<win8linux[m]>
Adapting them for phone mode.
<x512[m]>
Making one big virtual framebuffer for all screens if probably easiest solution to bring multi monitor support.
<nephele>
well, it should be done in adition i think, not as a change
<x512[m]>
if -> is
<nephele>
x512: Hmm, that's not a good solution IMO, it breaks easily for the case of proper window placement, and doesn't take into account the actuall monitor differences
<win8linux[m]>
x512[m]: Isn't this how X11 handles multiscreen?
<x512[m]>
That is also how old Haiku drivers handle multi monitor.
<nephele>
it is the way X11 does it (or one way it does it), and also the way our old drivers can do it for some devices
<win8linux[m]>
That has issues with displays that have different refresh rates, resolutions, dimensions, and colour spaces.
<nephele>
Refresh rates, dimenions resolutions are not really relevant here, colouor space could be calculated down if needed
<nephele>
something like DPI is more important here, we want fonts to be roughly equal in size for legibility, but it's much harder if it's the same context
<win8linux[m]>
Yeah, that falls under the resolution and dimension concerns.
<nephele>
DPI is a physical property, but many monitors accept severall resolutions to render with
<x512[m]>
Resolution is not a problem, but refresh rate and color depth may be a problem.
<x512[m]>
Parts of one big virtual framebuffer can be painted with different DPI scaling.
<nephele>
win8linux: booting my Psion Series 3c :D
<nephele>
Maybe I can make some pictures and explain some of the UI paradigms
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<nephele>
I think for example that the Psion Series 3c Contacts application is way easier to use than Haikus, for the usecase of filling in Data into it
<win8linux[m]>
There's a Psion somewhere here, but the ribbon cable is broken. :(
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<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 0d9b77a32847 - haiku_loader.riscv: update for SMP support
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<nephele>
win8linux, julicenri: I've mad a forum topic
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<AlienSoldier>
Nice, my sound system sound like an imperial empire strike back snow probe before it heat up. I guess i have another electrolytic cap tp change :(
<AlienSoldier>
*to
<AlienSoldier>
must be the power supply, i seem to hear a bit of 120hz in the speaker
<ablyss>
a nearby lamp can cause humming too
<nephele>
AlienSoldier: why 120hz?
<AlienSoldier>
rectified 60hz
<nephele>
I only know of the 50hz for the power net, so i'm curious where 120 hz is used there
<AlienSoldier>
north america is 60hz power
<nephele>
Ah, okay :)
<AlienSoldier>
once it go trough the diod bridge the frequency double
<AlienSoldier>
so i guess a cap is resistive between there and the voltage regulator and it "modulate" the ground level
<AlienSoldier>
take about 7 min to heat up and be fine
<AlienSoldier>
I got one of those monster 16:9 CRT TV i will need to fix eventually that do all kind of matix glitch until it heat up also.
<AlienSoldier>
i barely can lift that up
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