x10z has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
x10z has joined #haiku
bbjimmy1 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
bbjimmy has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
x10z has quit []
vdamewood has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
MajorBiscuit has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.3]
mmu_man has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
nabaiste^ has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
KapiX has quit [Quit: KapiX]
x10z has joined #haiku
debyte has joined #haiku
TurboFaygot has joined #haiku
<debyte>
hello, i pressed or did something somewhere, and now the applications list/menu is hidden to a button next to the start menu on the deskbar, and i dont know how to revert it.. i looked in the deskbar preferences, but nothing there seems to be able to change anything. does anyone know how to change that back? sorry for the noob question
TurboFaygot has quit []
<AlienSoldier>
debyte: look for a little row of dot, drab that and pull that down with the mouse
<debyte>
ah got it, thanks :)
<AlienSoldier>
the row will be vertical
<AlienSoldier>
You can play with it all around the screen, it can place the whole interface in any corner or in a row at bottom or top of the screen
<debyte>
good to know, thanks for the help :)
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
debyte has quit [Quit: Page closed]
HaikuUser is now known as JinHaiku
nabaiste^ has joined #haiku
x10z has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
JinHaiku has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
freakazoid343 has joined #haiku
freakazoid333 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
freakazoid12345 has joined #haiku
freakazoid343 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Scarecrow has left #haiku [#haiku]
Scarecrow has joined #haiku
Maturi0n has joined #haiku
bitigchi has joined #haiku
Maturi0n_ has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
AlwaysLivid has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
AlwaysLivid has joined #haiku
bitigchi has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Kernel86 has quit []
Kernel86 has joined #haiku
x10z has joined #haiku
<Anarchos>
waddlesplash where can i find your gtk hacks to compile ?
<waddlesplash>
they're only in my tree
<waddlesplash>
and it's not yet worth your time. it just crashes a lot right now
<waddlesplash>
clicking causes a hang, key presses cause crashes etc.
<waddlesplash>
in a few days it'll probably be less crashy, I literally got it to display something only yesterday
<Anarchos>
waddlesplash i read your post on discuss, i know it crashes. anyway i am really excited to be able tocompile ocaml applications with GUI, like coq ide for instance
<x512[m]>
waddlesplash: Does latest GTK still supports Xlib, or it is moved to XCB?
<Begasus>
GnuPG-like unix program for encryption and signing
<Begasus>
can't stand failed builds :)
<andreasdr>
Coool.
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±1] https://git.io/JDDMK
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus bdc0a02 - codecrypt, revbump/patch/fix build for new cryptopp (#6479)
<Begasus>
that should do it :)
<x512[m]>
> wireshark: bump to version 3.0.14
<x512[m]>
Is it working?
<Begasus>
haven't checked
<nephele>
good day
<nephele>
Begasus: did anything more happen with the love2d patch?
<Begasus>
hi nephele x512[m]
<Begasus>
nephele, haven't looked at it, so can't tell
<nephele>
Ah, i don't think you put the love2d patch in a pr
<nephele>
well, the love2d patch and the sdl2 patch do build on each other, but it is not directly related, love2d will work without the sdl2 one (and it fixes some stuff on it's own too :)
<nephele>
let's see if i can push it to my git today...
<andreasdr>
Good morning nephele, x512[m]
<nephele>
good day andreasdr
* nephele
makes a mental note to prioritize nickname completeion implementation
<x512[m]>
16:17 here (good day?).
<andreasdr>
:)
<andreasdr>
Ok
<nephele>
that's only 8 hours ahead :P
<andreasdr>
So where are you right now x512[m] If I may ask.
<andreasdr>
I am in Berlin/Germany. Its 8.20 am
<x512[m]>
In Japan, Kansai area.
<andreasdr>
Nice.
<nephele>
8.20 in american notation means 8,20
<andreasdr>
Ok then its 8:20 am :D
<andreasdr>
Let me check with goooooogle maps.
<nephele>
(I think only the US uses am/pm, atleast i hope...)
<andreasdr>
Ok in which city should I have a walk in Kansai area Japan? I love to check cities from time to time by google maps streetview :DDD
<andreasdr>
Thats just like vacation sometimes. :DDD
<x512[m]>
Secret :)
<nephele>
I think google maps is still broken in Web+
<andreasdr>
Sure. You need not chooose your city, but maybe a city nearby thats sweet or something
<andreasdr>
Currently using FBSD.
<andreasdr>
But no worries.
<andreasdr>
Right now I am in Amagasaki
<andreasdr>
:)
<nephele>
andreasdr: that would also be identifiying info, you know it's not the city, but close enough that x512 knows it ;)
<andreasdr>
Ok. Sorry :)
dby has quit [Quit: Vision[]:]
<nephele>
I would really like to play deus ex on Haiku sometime
<x512[m]>
Google Maps works in Falkon/Webengine.
<andreasdr>
Nice.
<nephele>
i suppose either boxedwine needs to improve, or we should get a proper wine port
<andreasdr>
Our game designer talks sometimes about Deus Ex. Must be a nice game.
<nephele>
maybe even play sims 2 properly, before linux does :DD
<nephele>
Deus Ex is a great game
<andreasdr>
I believe you :)
<andreasdr>
Are there actually news about Blink browser?
<andreasdr>
How was it called?
<nephele>
x512 said above
<x512[m]>
Falkon?
<andreasdr>
Thanks. I just check Haiku every 2 days, but currently not much happening. Due to christmas and stuff I guess
<andreasdr>
Yes Falkon.
<andreasdr>
Sorry.
<andreasdr>
Forgot it for a sec.
<andreasdr>
Are there news about Falkon? Its look sooooo promising.
<andreasdr>
looooooking
<nephele>
I'm working on upstreaming webkit stuff, it's not visible to users, but certainly exiting to me
<andreasdr>
Nice.
<andreasdr>
Big love.
<nephele>
upstreaming ftp code from 10 years ago :P
<x512[m]>
The biggest Falkon/Webengine problem is random JavaScript engine crashes. If it will be fixed, it become perfect browser on Haiku in terms of modern web compatibility.
<andreasdr>
Yes!
<andreasdr>
x512[m]: YYYEEEEEEES!
<nephele>
Eh, I'll not install it, i still dislike it's UI
<andreasdr>
You dont need to.
<andreasdr>
Actually some fixes to WebPoisitve and its a good browser too.
<nephele>
If that is the case, how come nobody steps up to help? :P
<andreasdr>
Its about time and skills I guess.
<andreasdr>
:((((
<nephele>
WebPositive could use some UI improvements, maybe someone wants to make the tree tabs a reality
<nephele>
i think it would be a nice UI
<andreasdr>
For me the most annoying bug is the scrolling of elements that are actually fixed. And second some operations seems to block rendering even of other tabs like image loading.
<andreasdr>
But sure. Talking does maybe not help to resolve those bugs :)
<nephele>
css anchor fixed, that is probably not too difficult a fix in webkit, but then every issue needs someone to resolve them
<andreasdr>
Sure.
<Begasus>
dogschool, bbl
<andreasdr>
Not asking for fixes right now. Just telling what I think is a bit annoying.
<andreasdr>
To have something to talk about :DDD
<nephele>
And aslong as i am busy with upstreaming existing work I won't be the one fixing bugs :)
<nephele>
pulkomandy is working on webkit2 though, the api, that might improve stuff like blocking requests... might
<andreasdr>
Sure Sir. Please..... I just do conversation with you guys :)
<nephele>
it might also have no user facing changes at all
<andreasdr>
Nice. I can vote tickets. Also I could just create tickets for "my" issues. True that.
<andreasdr>
Ill store that link for later.
<nephele>
Personally my priority is a bit this though: fix crashes => fix hangs => fix rendering issues => implement new stuff
<andreasdr>
Totally makes sense.
<nephele>
I guess polishing stuff is not as user visible or exiting as having a thread of enabeling webgl2 or something
<andreasdr>
I think Browsers are a hot topic for Haiku still as they are not yet 100% there.
<andreasdr>
So every topic about browsers are hot here :D
<andreasdr>
(My guess)
<nephele>
webpositive is already very far I think, just that stuff like investigating new crashes and such takes a lot of work, plus the rebasing takes a lot of work
<nephele>
hopefully with upstreaming in the future the workload for rebasing and crash testing will be much less, because webkit upstream will get a builder and an alert every time they break our build :)
<andreasdr>
Nice.
<nephele>
If i search for haikuwebkit on duckduckgo my p
<nephele>
ersonal git repo comes up before the official one, lol
<andreasdr>
Link?
<andreasdr>
I will give stars.
<andreasdr>
Gimmme the link
<andreasdr>
:DDD
<nephele>
What's that?
<andreasdr>
GitHub stars?
<nephele>
no... my personal repo
<andreasdr>
Like "favoring" your GitHub repos?
<andreasdr>
Ah personal.
<andreasdr>
Damn.
<nephele>
why would i use github for my own repositories?
<andreasdr>
But why does DuckDuckGo see it then?
<andreasdr>
No idea, because of the collaboration features of GH?
<andreasdr>
Personal.
<andreasdr>
Sorry I am stupid today.
<andreasdr>
:D
<andreasdr>
I woke up too early.
<andreasdr>
Went to bed at 3-4am and woke up at 7am.
<nephele>
Seems kind of pointless to put a copy of a repo that is on github already on github, if githubs servers fail its gone either way
<andreasdr>
Toooooo less sleeeeeeepe.
<andreasdr>
Need to work a bit today also. But around christmas Ill do not much.
<andreasdr>
Also visiting parents and stuff.
<andreasdr>
Nephele: Which is your country? If I may ask? Obviously I am doing a survey today :DDD
<nephele>
a survey?
<nephele>
I am european
<andreasdr>
Just joking
<andreasdr>
Ah nice. So you might be around the corner.
<andreasdr>
Cheeeeeeers.
<andreasdr>
I landed in Google Street Maps in smaller cities in Japan. They could totally be european cities too. Looks nice.
<andreasdr>
(From first look)
<nephele>
european cities don't have green tea without sugar in vending machines
<andreasdr>
Sure.
<andreasdr>
I used to go to a RAMEN restaurant here in Berlin around the corner. Very tasty. Yummi.
<andreasdr>
Need to go there again.
<andreasdr>
Also the people working there are very kind. Which japanese are told to be also.
<andreasdr>
:x
<nephele>
Heh... my personal build branch is just severall fixes and hacks to make haiku more dark
<nephele>
I should probably upstream some and clean them up
<PulkoMandy>
not just protocols, apparently it looks also for "www." and "ftp."
<nephele>
not sure if i want to visit www."
<PulkoMandy>
there is no server there :( (the shortest URL I know is the official site of Russia at www.ru)
<x512[m]>
libroot.so
<nephele>
nu.nl
<x512[m]>
Highlighted as link for me.
<PulkoMandy>
or whatever is at this domain now
<PulkoMandy>
well, .so is a valid topdomain (for Somalia), I was considering buying libbe.so and redirecting to api.haiku-os.org but I don't think it's a joke worth the 80€ or so they were asking for
<nephele>
I think they know very well that .so is for library names ;)
<PulkoMandy>
It's fun that .sh and .ac are both owned by the same islands, both misused by german cities and provinces, and also usable as pun on shell scripts and autoconf scripts respectively :>
<nephele>
many webservers get confused by that though :)
<x512[m]>
With dot it says that page is unsafe.
<x512[m]>
I wonder why domain name is reversed, logically it should be org.haiku-os.www
<x512[m]>
Java use that.
<nephele>
It depends on the webrowser and server, pedantically speaking if the TLS certificate is only for "www.haiku-os.org" and not for "www.haiku-os.org.", it's the same server name but with the explicit dns root
<nephele>
but it's not what the webserver claims to serve directly
<nephele>
x512: dns came first, so i think it's the correct way around
<nephele>
the faq should be updated to renaame Caya to Icon-O-Matic
<nephele>
err, Chat-O-Matic...
<nephele>
I think we could probably also remove the "Is there flash support" question :D
<PulkoMandy>
the trailing dot can sometimes be used as a trick to bypass firewalls which block certain domains
freddietilley has joined #haiku
bitigchi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bitigchi has joined #haiku
freddietilley has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<Niklas[m]>
The dot also worked as a way to view Youtube without ads some years ago,but maybe they have fixed it now xD
AlaskanEmily has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nipos has joined #haiku
MajorBiscuit has joined #haiku
<nipos>
hello world!
<nipos>
Trying the XMPP bridge now to see if it's really better than Matrix.
<nephele>
the world hellos back
<nipos>
Cool,so the connection seems to work at least.I'll try to use XMPP more today and see if I'm happy with it.
<nephele>
Hmm, didn't I have ops here before? oh well
nipos has left #haiku [#haiku]
gouchi has joined #haiku
nipos has joined #haiku
rennj has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
rennj has joined #haiku
<Not-5726>
[haiku/website] humdingerb pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JDycN
<Not-5726>
[haiku/website] humdingerb bf9a8e8 - FAQ: Caya is now Chat-O-Matic
orealis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
orealis has joined #haiku
jmairboeck has joined #haiku
nipos has left #haiku [#haiku]
nipos has joined #haiku
nipos has left #haiku [#haiku]
nipos has joined #haiku
DKnoto has joined #haiku
DKnoto has quit []
bitigchi_2 has joined #haiku
bitigchi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
MajorBiscuit has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
x10z has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<Anarchos>
nephele hello
x10z has joined #haiku
<nephele>
Hi Anarchos
nipos has left #haiku [#haiku]
nipos has joined #haiku
<Anarchos>
Package 'gl', required by 'epoxy', not found
<Anarchos>
where to find 'gl' ? I could not find a hint with pkgman search
x10z has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
DKnoto has joined #haiku
<PulkoMandy>
it's not a package, the package is called mesa
<PulkoMandy>
so if epoxy requires "gl", that's a bug, it should probably require lib:libgl instead
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://git.io/JDyXm
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 7f18010 - QtHaikuPlugins: bump version
HaikuUser has quit []
x10z has joined #haiku
x10z has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<M3dEyes[m]>
> [haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 7f18010 - QtHaikuPlugins: bump version
<M3dEyes[m]>
Added support for native file dialogs (open, save, directory select)
x10z has joined #haiku
MajorBiscuit has joined #haiku
x10z has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
bitigchi_2 has joined #haiku
mmu_man has joined #haiku
<Anarchos>
i have trouvble building pango
bitigchi_2 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
x10z has joined #haiku
x10z has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Anarchos has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
bitigchi_2 has joined #haiku
<nephele>
M3dEyes: very cool
<nephele>
Would be cool to have an option to disable Deskbar icons for qt too... I don't know any app that uses it for any real reason, but i can't get rid of them
<nephele>
(and sometimes they only do this because you can't send notifications otherwise for qt... for some reason)
MajorBiscuit has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
MajorBiscuit has joined #haiku
x10z has joined #haiku
<nephele>
Is there a variable for the menu font? or another way to figure out how high the menu is?
halvor has joined #haiku
<PulkoMandy>
I think the only way to access it is create a BMenu and query its Bounds()
x10z has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<nephele>
>bitmap bounds is much too large: BRect(0.0, 0.0, 4294967296.0, 13.0)
<nephele>
Not the message I've expected :D
xet7 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
xet7 has joined #haiku
bitigchi_2 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
xet7 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<nephele>
menuBounds Width and Height are both -1, maybe it can't work if it's done before layouting? :g
<nephele>
it's a bit troublesome, i basically want to fix the fullscreen button of webpositive to be the same width as the height, it indirectly inherits the height from the main menu, but not the width
xet7 has joined #haiku
MajorBiscuit has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
MajorBiscuit has joined #haiku
<PulkoMandy>
it would probably be best to not hardcode it from the menu size, but instead set some constraints like "I want to be square, with width = height"
<PulkoMandy>
not doable with the standard layouts but maybe it can be done with ALM layout
<PulkoMandy>
in the usual layout code we only have the other direction: GetHeightForWidth
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
halvor has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<nephele>
I've opened a ticket anyhow, don't think I'll find a solution today :)
<nephele>
I think I'll try to work on the vertical tabs or tree tabs, I don't think there is that much difference between those?
<nephele>
I'm a bit wondering though, if I do make those, should the normal ones be kept as an option? Personally I think in-window tabs for a non-fixed number of items is not so great
<x512[m]>
I want to turn off tabs completely in WebPositive and use stacked windows. Deskbar expanded mode can be used as vertcal tabs.
<x512[m]>
No tabs are needed if all windows are tabs.
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] diversys pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-1/±0] https://git.io/JDSct
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] davidkaroly b8e92c5 - libfilezilla: bump to version 0.30.0 (#6480)
<nephele>
NetSurf implements that UI, I think the problem was a bit that navigating many tabs becomes much harder with window tabs than in-window tabs
<nephele>
I think for in-window tabs for ridicilous number of tabs the vertical tabs could be a good solution
<Begasus>
diver, you're way too fast for me ;)
<x512[m]>
Use Deskbar expander.
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://git.io/JDSCI
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 4690635 - QtHaikuPlugins: bump version
<x512[m]>
Maybe Deskbar can be extended to support collapsible groups of windows and hierarchy if too many windows management is needed.
<PulkoMandy>
on other browsers (with tree tabs) I tend to use my tabs as bookmarks and keep a lot of things open "for later". This doesn't work so well if they have to actually be open as windows
<PulkoMandy>
in webkit I rarely have more than 2 or 3 tabs open anyway, it often crashes before I open a lot more
<nipos>
Same here,have more than 200 tabs open currently
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+3/-3/±0] https://git.io/JDSl8
<Not-5726>
[haikuports/haikuports] korli dcf85f7 - nspr: bump version
<nipos>
Window tabs are a good idea if they're optional but normal tabs should still be available.
<nephele>
I think in-window tabs are great for the "know this is there, but dont load it yet" usecase
<nephele>
if its an actual webpositive window it is always expected to be loaded
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
<nephele>
x512: you have a lot of terminals open, i usually only have two or one, but with many tabs... probably because alt+t opens a new tab, and not a window
<x512[m]>
PulkoMandy: Then just let support thousands of stacked windows. Windows can be logical so only one BWindow will be actually created.
x10z has joined #haiku
<nephele>
In theory having the "vertical tabs" be on the right side, provided by deskbar as the UI could work nicely
<nephele>
but i don't think the current deskbar UI lends itself well to that
<x512[m]>
I don't like idea of tabs inside application except fixed tabs in settings preflets.
<PulkoMandy>
maybe, but the experience of using window tabs is not good currently
<PulkoMandy>
I tried it for NetSurf and it didn't work well
<PulkoMandy>
I also tried it for Renga and it didn't work well either
nipos has left #haiku [#haiku]
<PulkoMandy>
but in Renga I don't use "tabs" at all, I use a BOutlineListView to select conversations
<PulkoMandy>
it is much more efficient when there are more than 3 or 4 items
<x512[m]>
Logical window means that one BWindow exposes logical BMessage based window enumeration interface that is handled by decorator and Deskbar.
<PulkoMandy>
I don't care how it is implemented, if the UI remains as it is now it's not good enough for these uses
nipos has joined #haiku
<x512[m]>
I still want stacked tabs in WebPositive. It can be an option.
<PulkoMandy>
it would be nice to find a better UI for it but no one has proposed anything very convincing (better than using a BOutlineListView) so far
<PulkoMandy>
yes, I'm fine if we replace the current horizontal tabs with it. As long as there is an option for tree/vertical tabs for me :)
<x512[m]>
I propose Deskbar as vertical tabs.
<x512[m]>
It can be actually easier to implement logical window protocol then make new vertical tabs widget for WebPositive.
<PulkoMandy>
there is no new widget to make, BOutlineListView will work just fine. And DeskBar would need a lot more work, for example apps should be able to add custom menus to DeskBar (but we should do that anyway)
x10z has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<x512[m]>
Still not that hard (it already exist for application items). But efficiency improvement may be needed to allow Deskbar handle a lot of items.
freakazoid343 has joined #haiku
<x512[m]>
Hide all/close all.
<x512[m]>
Deskbar will send query logical windows message to BWindow and if it respond, it will show multiple enumerated window items instead of one.
<x512[m]>
Deskbar can keep connection so application will update opened/closed logical windows instead of reconstructing list on every change.
<x512[m]>
Something like this is implemented in Windows taskbar, it can show browser tabs.
bitigchi_2 has joined #haiku
freakazoid12345 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<x512[m]>
nephele: I usually open terminals from Ttracker windows, not from Terminal itself.
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
halvor has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
nullman has joined #haiku
Anarchos has joined #haiku
x10z has joined #haiku
bbjimmy has joined #haiku
<nephele>
I only do that rarely
x10z has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: I guess I can then replace the in-window tabs with a BOutlineListView directly then
<nephele>
Doesn't seem like anyone is particularily fond of keeping the current WebPositive tabs
<x512[m]>
Typing `cd <path>` in Terminal is annoying so I keep Tracker windows with needed path.
<nephele>
I am quite fast with cding in terminal, but that is probably also because i just haven't practiced that much with tracker and type ahead filtering
<nipos>
I'm still used to cd [full path] but since I know fish with these nice autocomplete features from BSD,I don't like the normal bash cd that much anymore lol
<nephele>
I don't use bash, it is too inconvenient for me
<nephele>
i use mksh because i frequently start a command to type it, and then use ^C to abort it, do something else, and then return to the command to finish it and run it
<nephele>
for example if i forgot that i need some input
<nephele>
in mksh this works great but bash just discards the input completely on ^C
<nipos>
I'm often in that situation,too
<nipos>
Never tried mksh
<nephele>
you should, it's the default shell of Android :D
<nephele>
And android also has /system instead of /usr
<nipos>
I try not to use Android if there's any way around it
<nephele>
kind of funky that android has such random similarities with haiku in its file system path design...
<Begasus>
If I want to kill a build I always use ^C, works fine for me
<nephele>
nipos: I can understand that :), but android has some nice tech like toybox or mskh, neither is really "from" android, but it is nice nonetheless
<nephele>
mksh is the "mirBSD korn shell"
<nephele>
iirc
<nipos>
Yes,it is
<nipos>
I've done some research on BSDs again recently and found mksh by it,but I didn't read what exactly it is.
<nephele>
Begasus: I was thinking of starting to write a command, for example "mkdir path/to/something", but if i forget what folder i need to make i can use ^C, then check in the terminal what it was. and then use arrow up to get back to the command and finish inputing it
<nephele>
mksh is a shell, that's basically it, i like it but it doesn't have some shell interactive features some other shells use
<Begasus>
ah, right doesn't seem to work on bash
<nephele>
Yeah, but i am very used to that and don't really use any bash features :)
<nephele>
so i just stick to what i know in this case
<Begasus>
well, for my use case it's good enough ;)
<nipos>
When I know C++ a bit better some day,I may try to fix fish on Haiku
<nephele>
toybox wants to make a bash reimplementation funnily enough
<nephele>
That would be funky, maybe it can be used on Haiku at some point, while I prefer mskh I do see why users are used to bash more. but the shell of toybox is "BSD0" licensed (which is basically the MIT license (or the ISC one?), no need to copy the license text though)
<x512[m]>
For me Terminal is mostly a tool of executing applications with arguments. I don't care about Bash.
<Begasus>
ksh* remembered I did something there ;)
<Begasus>
but didn't really worked well iirc ...
<nephele>
I don't really like the part of executing commands in terminal... posix has no way to destinquish arguments and options and it's making some things really messy
<nephele>
or more precisely, some arguments /sometimes/ allow -- as a seperator for these.. but then some do not
<x512[m]>
sh/bash/ksh/cmd/... Who cares? Program execution syntax is the same.
<nephele>
some programs*
<nephele>
x512: it isn't
<nephele>
escaping rules for example are sometimes quite different
<nephele>
and the escaping rules for shell, that is posix sh, are /hoorrrible/
<x512[m]>
"some argument" or some\ argument.
<nephele>
For example, every string that is quoted with double quotes is treated as one string...
<nephele>
except for "$@"
<x512[m]>
Just drop a file from Tracker, it will do the job.
<nephele>
you're just supposed to know that
<nephele>
Even worse, if you want to do something like grep through files with ripgrep and use fixed strings as an option (to disable regex searching) it is still incredibly difficult to figure out how many backslashes you need to put where so it searches for the correct string
<x512[m]>
It is important for scripts, but not really for interactive commands.
<nephele>
It is a huge pitfall for interactive commands and makes the system harder to use
<x512[m]>
For complex scripts Python may be a better option.
<nephele>
It would be nice to have a more flexible system with proper command names, explicit piping that is easy to use, piping of structured data, and an interactive commandline that makes escaping strings nothing you have to do
<nephele>
I can't write python, I'm fairly good at writing shell, unfortunately
<nephele>
But then I also am not interested in learning python, i'd rather use lua ;)
<x512[m]>
Lua have no package system like Pip.
<nephele>
yes it does
<nephele>
it's called luarocks
<nephele>
does it work? I don't know, i don't use it. I only tried once for luasocket but it fails to compile
<x512[m]>
It is some 3rd party Lua extension. Officual Lua have no that.
<x512[m]>
Or even alternative implementation with JIT, not sure.
<nephele>
I don't think luarocks is unofficial, if you want a lua package manager that is the one there is
<x512[m]>
Terminal GUI may have an option of automatic escaping.
<nephele>
Terminal can't fix the horrible design of sh
<nephele>
or the fact that we still emulate vt terminals for talking to the local computer with text, for some reason
<nephele>
I mean... it's fine if you actually use a serial line, but we have a better application for that
<nephele>
For lua: it is a bit sad that there is this language split because of luajit, it would be nice if someone could maintain it and add support for newer lua versions :/
<x512[m]>
TTY should just die completely. I like Oberon "text as interface concept". It use regular text views for entering commands and it allows to freely edit whole text, not just last line. Concept is also implemented in Olan9 acme editor.
<nephele>
I think we could take a look at TempleOS, PowerShell, posix shell etc and design a better system
<nephele>
And yes i am serious about looking at TempleOS for that, it has some interesting ideas
<nephele>
x512: yes, there is no place for tty anymore I'd say
<x512[m]>
PowerShell is just alternative command interpreter. It use the same ancient virtual terminal concept.
<nephele>
except... you are talking to an actuall tty terminal, or yuo require this for external serial lines
<nephele>
x512: Yes, it is also a "virtual terminal" but it improves over cmd.exe in many respects, it is probably good to see what it did better
<x512[m]>
It is very slow to open.
<x512[m]>
And it don handle white background well. So unusable.
<PulkoMandy>
tty is a bit more central than you'd expect in POSIX, it's not just about teletype terminals but also used for several other things: managing control of stdin/stdout between different apps, running jobs in the background, making sure all child processes are terminated when you close the session, ...
<PulkoMandy>
it's easy to say it should die, but it's not so easy to come up with a replacement
<x512[m]>
In Oberon there are no TTY. It is basically UNIX compatibility thing.
<x512[m]>
Why job control is related to TTY?
<PulkoMandy>
tty manages signal delivery, making sure the signals get to the right process in the group, for example
<x512[m]>
Isn't it possible to separate it from stream IO?
<PulkoMandy>
if you have jobs running in the background, they have to send the stdin/stdout control back to the parent process
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: Well, I do mean to replace it completely, including the way stdin stdout works etc
<PulkoMandy>
it's possible but you will end up with something very similar to tty, or even more complicated, if you want to handle possible race conditions or synchronization problems
<nephele>
(I don't think there is any value in keeping a "terminal session" with something like background jobs tbh)
<nephele>
If services for example wish to log stuff I don't think this should ever involve the tty, there should be a proper logging channel that talks with a logging server (or with launch_daemon). And not involve stdout or stderr
<x512[m]>
Is it related to GUI sessions?
<PulkoMandy>
launch daemon uses session ids, I'm not sure exactly what it does with them
<nephele>
Similarily, if gui applications wish to log stuff this should work the exact same way. It would even be nice if there was a shortcut to show the current log of a running application, even if it is just temporary while it is running. It is quite bad that there is such a stack difference between launching apps in the terminal explicitly and getting logging or not doing so and not getting logging
<x512[m]>
Why it is not possible to connect stdio of already running program to something else?
<nephele>
I think this would even be similar to the BMessage logging application you mentioned?
<nephele>
(the closed source one)
<PulkoMandy>
x512: how is that not possible? Debugger does it :)
<x512[m]>
PulkoMandy: Then it maybe possible to make some application logging tool too?
<PulkoMandy>
yes, but why use stdout for that?
<nephele>
Logging with formated data makes more sense I think, we already have BMEssage, let's just use that
<PulkoMandy>
I use BeDC, it is based on BMessage, much simpler and easier
<PulkoMandy>
however it is closed source from BeOS so no 64bit version
<x512[m]>
Because existing programs are written in that way.
<nephele>
Which ones? If neccesary we can patch applications
<nephele>
maybe even have an explicit logging kit with some convenient functions
<PulkoMandy>
a lot of linux services use high level APIs from systemd now (sd_log, sd_notify, ...)
<x512[m]>
Almost all. Too much work to patch. Ported apps too.
<nephele>
MacOS also has it's own logging servies
<nephele>
the systemd logging apis are probbaly simple enough to implement based on a BMessage logging system
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: I think, it probably makes sense to have an actuall logging server to keep this stuff, and have a client to read stuff out of it?
<nephele>
that way we can collect temporary logs from all BeApi Applications and display them at will
<PulkoMandy>
in my tests for WebKit2 this works fine. I have the logs from all the background processes started by webkit in a single window
<x512[m]>
BMessages are not suited well for general logging.
<nephele>
x512: how so?
<PulkoMandy>
I just start the app when I need to see the logs. Otherwise no logs are stored
<PulkoMandy>
the BeDC app and protocol can handle both strings (with printf format) and BMessage
<x512[m]>
What if I want to do formatted output in log like indentation?
<PulkoMandy>
when writing Be apps, being able to log BMessages directly is useful
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: I think it is a bit wierd to have this two worlds style thing, where either you start things from the Terminal or the gui, it would be nicer If i can do debugging stuff easily without having to start stuff in the terminal neccesarily
<x512[m]>
Also text log can be easily stored and shared.
<nephele>
x512: I don't see a problem with that? The logging display desides how to render it, but if you give it formatted data you can control the rendering more easily afterward
<nephele>
for example choose to display or not display timestamps, directly filter stuff, hide columns of irrelevant stuff etc. etc.
<PulkoMandy>
any format can be stored and shared, if everyone has an application to open it
halvor has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<nephele>
I don't think there is any problem in exporting logs, in any rendering you want, from the logging application to give to other people
<x512[m]>
Have you seen my libdrm log?
<nephele>
doesn't matter whether that is text, png, or pdf
<PulkoMandy>
systemd has a text format but it can also do json and json-stream if needed
<nephele>
logging with structured data also completely avoids stuff like "last message repeated N times"
<x512[m]>
I don't want auto repeat detection. It may break formatted output.
<nephele>
Our syslog has auto repeat detection, a structured logging tool just doesn't need that at all
<nephele>
x512: you mean the gist you send? It already looks like a perfect example of why one would use BMessage based logging
<x512[m]>
Sometimes multiple the same lines is correct output.
<x512[m]>
My libdrm tracer also work on Linux that I use to compare behavior.
<nephele>
I don't programm for linux *shrug*
<x512[m]>
GPU drivers are originally from Linux.
<nephele>
It's not a convincing argument against doing structured logging, linux can do that fine aswell with systemd
<x512[m]>
Often tracing them is the only option to understand what is going on because there are no documentation for many parts.
halvor has joined #haiku
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: what would the collection of entries in the outline list be called? I mean... it's no longer tabs, I need a name for the stuff in code :D
<nephele>
i don't think fVerticalTab is the way to go
<x512[m]>
Encoding log messages to BMessage will likely increase logging code significantly and also precise control of output format is needed (decimal, hex, bitset, where to make new lines etc.).
<PulkoMandy>
nephele: from the code it would be a collection of BWebViews
<nephele>
fWebViewList?
<nephele>
x512: If you want to compare it directly with linux, yes. But if such a logging tool does get written for haiku it would already be a perfect usecase to make it format logs properly for comparison
<PulkoMandy>
yes, fWebViewList seems ok, or fViewList if there is no need to specify "Web"
<PulkoMandy>
you could also use fCardList since the layouting will probably be handled with a BCardLayout
<PulkoMandy>
pick whichever seems more obvious to you
<BrunoSpr_>
AlienSoldier: So, how many downloads it got?
<BrunoSpr_>
ah here it is: 3000
xet7 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<AlienSoldier>
commando arcade got 10K. As sonic have more fan i think it could get 50K
xet7 has joined #haiku
<AlienSoldier>
Usually a good c64 release get 200-500 download
<nephele>
Hmm, currently it looks like WebPositive keeps a "tabindex" which it uses to assign titles and such for BViews, probably don't need that though
vdamewood has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: How could I identify items in the listview in the code without an index, passed as a BMessage? is it okay to pass pointers in messages for this?
Begasus_32 has quit [Quit: Vision[]: Gone to the dogs!]
<PulkoMandy>
yes
_Dario_ has joined #haiku
halvor has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
BrunoSpr has quit [Quit: Vision[]: Ich wurde verwaschen!]
BrunoSpr_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
BrunoSpr has joined #haiku
<nephele>
Okay.. ListView exposes Select for a certain index, i suppose I need to ask the ListView beforehand for a specific ListItem what the current index is, if i want them to be reorderable
<nephele>
Probably no direct way to select an item without the index
<AlienSoldier>
Not sure email trown directly to trash unopened should still be flaged as new message, after all putting them to trash count as an action on them (so they got somehow handled and they are no longer "new"). Also it make you empty the trash to get to zero message and that is an addition action to do.
halvor has joined #haiku
<nephele>
Thrown by what?
<AlienSoldier>
deleted by the user
<nephele>
Yes, but which application?
<nephele>
deleted by mail? deleted by tracker?
m_eiman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<AlienSoldier>
yes
<AlienSoldier>
mail are files in haiku
m_eiman has joined #haiku
<AlienSoldier>
not sure if the same flag for new and read are the same. They sure are not read but at the same time they no longer are new.
<AlienSoldier>
i think they should be kept new if moved (if they are file chute sorted), but the trash is a special case imho.
<nephele>
Deleting by mail is a different code path to deleting by tracker iirc, which is why i asked
<nephele>
the default mail querry is MAIL:status=="New"
<nephele>
Tracker or mail, whicever you encounter a problem with, should be fixed to unset this when trashing email
<AlienSoldier>
not a big problem, but still annoying when discarting mail i already did read on a web interface or just recocgnize as junk from the subject line.
<AlienSoldier>
i always delete from tracker
<nephele>
open a ticket :)
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
<AlienSoldier>
trashing from the mail app work as expected but doing it from trasker allow to do many at once.
<AlienSoldier>
*tracker
HaikuUser has quit []
<AlienSoldier>
Guess i will do a ticket evetually, was just wondering if someone got a good reason to not have it act like i want.
x10z has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<nephele>
Mail does it, i don't see why tracker should act differently
<nephele>
tickets "eventually" are eventually forgotten ;)
Vidrep_64 has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has joined #haiku
HaikuUser has quit []
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: it seems like some of the functions in WebPositive related to tabs could potentially have race conditions, because they refer to tab indices, and then send BMessages about what to do with those, heh...
<AlienSoldier>
not good if you use google or any site that make big use of cookie i guess.
<nephele>
nah, this is more like, if you close a tab and open a new one in an incredibly short time frame it could close the wrong tab... or something :) ... althought that can't happen if you can't reorder tabs, as is now the case, heh
<nephele>
I thought that you can't reorder tabs is just a not implemented thing... but how they are done now in WebPositive reordering them would be really difficult
halvor has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<AlienSoldier>
Better to do it well. imagine when all windows user will want a port of webpositive because it is the best browser ever :P
<AlienSoldier>
was looking to see how terminal do tab so see if it could be used for web+, seem it also is in need of tab ordering.
<Vidrep_64>
PulkoMandy, are the most recent HaikuWebKit commits mostly for WebKit2 or legacy?
Begasus_32 has joined #haiku
<AlienSoldier>
looking into my old haiku bugs file, seem my 5.1 wav file bug in media player is gone. Now file work and show as DCA DTS Coherent Acoustics.
madelinecr has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<nephele>
AlienSoldier: well, unfortunately Safari on windows is no longer a thing
<AlienSoldier>
seek time suck still in long wav file. i guess that could be another ticket.
<nephele>
In MediaPlayer?
<AlienSoldier>
yes
<nephele>
seeking in MediaPlayer sucks in general
<AlienSoldier>
yes
<nephele>
i don't know if there is a ticket for that yet
<AlienSoldier>
seeking used to be good once
<AlienSoldier>
at least for video
<AlienSoldier>
now it can even go backward! when you want to advance some sec
<nephele>
Nothing is sader than Koder freezing up with severall windows open .-.
<AlienSoldier>
before closing my wav ticket i will try it again just after a cold boot. brb
AlienSoldier has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
AlienSoldier has joined #haiku
<AlienSoldier>
yep it's fixed
<AlienSoldier>
Any reason why left side of the about box is not text selectable?
<nephele>
Probably someone got annoyed about the time running removing the selection again, but also we don't allow text to be selected /anywhere/ that is on the control background IIRC
<nephele>
panel background
nullman has left #haiku [#haiku]
humdinger has joined #haiku
humdinger has quit [Quit: Vision[]: Oi with the poodles already!!]
<Begasus>
heading down, g'night peeps
Begasus has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg]
<AlienSoldier>
found another bmail bug
vdamewood has joined #haiku
ClaudioM has joined #haiku
_Dario_ has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<AlienSoldier>
gonna fill it in my previous mail ticket as it might be related.
gouchi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
gouchi has joined #haiku
gouchi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
x10z has joined #haiku
<AlienSoldier>
also there seem to be a filter in bmail to prevent ourself to be a possible email to send from making our own people file.
BrunoSpr has quit [Quit: Vision[]: Ich wurde verwaschen!]
bitigchi_2 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<nephele>
AlienSoldier: it's not always picking up people files directly, dunno why :/
Cian has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<AlienSoldier>
perhaps this is what happened
bitigchi_2 has joined #haiku
KapiX has joined #haiku
<nephele>
I replied to your ticket
<nephele>
I usually Copy People files because if I open People it creates a new folder in my home directory without asking when trying to save (and it never remembers where it roughly saved last time). In mail i then get two times the same entry at first, i think untill i restart mail or the mail daemon, but i'm not sure, it's not perfect anyhow
<nephele>
I kind of with i could edit the From: field directly... I can use any mail adress my server has, but the mail client doesn't let me :D
AlaskanEmily has joined #haiku
<nephele>
AlienSoldier: I also have a message like that... similar anyhow
<nephele>
it displays "âãïŒããâïŒ" But it should display "☆〜（ゝ。∂）"
<nephele>
Looking at the email it looks like it never mentions the encoding... i guess the "automatic" detection should be improved a bit maybe
<nephele>
"if two a{something} characters are after each other you detected it wrong" could be a good rule of thumb :D
<AlienSoldier>
i guess the default could be made UTF-8
<nephele>
for sending? probably. But this doesn't matter much, we should figure out why this is broken and fix it first
<nephele>
after that we can screw with the defaults :)
<AlienSoldier>
in the haiku only mail it only mention textplain without the UTF8 like i have from the gmail generated one
<nephele>
In the first example you posted it said something about iso8859-15, which is a european encoding also
<nephele>
though... that is in the Subject, maybe that is different?
<nephele>
I suppose the default really should be utf-8 for decoding, or alternatively it should have a higher heuristic value... I am not sure how the autodetection works
<nephele>
but there is also people sitting on huge stacks of emails, we don't want to break them either :D
<AlienSoldier>
yes suject seem to be treated differently. Perhaps because the subject end up being the file name of the email in bfs.
<nephele>
(Though, i am already exstatic that haiku stores emails as /files/... On my server i had to do lots of stuff to get it to do that)
<nephele>
AliendSoldier: I think maybe that is because the subject comes in the header before the content, so it can have it's own encoding specified?
<nephele>
I mean, if you want you can just send an email to me to inspect :D
<AlienSoldier>
sure, don't have it i think
<nephele>
well, to be funky nep-emailtest@packageloss.eu
<AlienSoldier>
done
<nephele>
Hmm, did not get one yet
<nephele>
ah, its there now
<AlienSoldier>
i forgot to press the turbo button on my 386 :P
<nephele>
Ah yes, i don't think I've ever used those :)
freakazoid343 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<HaikuUser>
ok
freakazoid343 has joined #haiku
timkack[m] has joined #haiku
freakazoid12345 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Vidrep_64 has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
HaikuUser has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
danboid has joined #haiku
<danboid>
I was able to install the latest nightly onto my ~7 yr old celeron desktop ok but it doesn't boot after being installed
<danboid>
same happened with b3
<Niklas[m]>
BIOS or UEFI?
<danboid>
uefi
<Niklas[m]>
The Haiku installer doesn't support UEFI yet.You must copy the UEFI partition from the install disk by hand.
<danboid>
I'm not sure what " copy the UEFI partition from the install disk by hand." means?
<Niklas[m]>
You'll likely have to do the install again
<danboid>
ok and do what differently? I don't think it booted when I tried to boot it in bios mode
<Niklas[m]>
Go to the drive setup,delete the Haiku partition,create a small FAT32 partition first (100MB should be enough) and then create a new Haiku partition with the rest of the free space
<danboid>
I mean the haiku installer
<danboid>
oh ok
<danboid>
will try that now
<Niklas[m]>
And then mount both the small FAT32 partition from the install disk and your new FAT32 partition.Copy all files from the install disks FAT32 partition to your new one.
B2IA has quit [Quit: Vision[0.10.3]: i've been blurred!]
B2IA has joined #haiku
x10z has joined #haiku
<danboid>
When I'm creatinf the partitions, do I need to set one or both as 'active'?
<Niklas[m]>
Setting the FAT32 partition as active should be enough,but I'm not sure if that makes any difference at all
freakazoid333 has joined #haiku
<danboid>
Niklas[m], Is it better to copy ther fat partition before or after runing the installer? Maybe the order is irrelevant
freakazoid343 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
<Niklas[m]>
It doesn't matter,the installer will only write to the Haiku partition
Skipp_OSX has quit [Quit: My Mac Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<danboid>
Niklas[m], Yes, I've got it installed now!
<danboid>
Thanks!
<Niklas[m]>
Great!
<danboid>
Niklas[m], Those steps need to be documented on this page:
<Niklas[m]>
Ideally the installer should do it automatically just like it creates the Master Boot Record for BIOS automatically during the install process
<danboid>
Yep
freakazoid343 has joined #haiku
freakazoid333 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Scarecrow has left #haiku [Disconnected: Received SIGTERM]
Scarecrow has joined #haiku
hooway has quit []
x10z has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
bitigchi_2 has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
vdamewood has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
jadedctrl_ has joined #haiku
jadedctrl has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
Anarchos has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]