<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 362976e - parallel, bump version (#9685)
<erysdren>
coolcoder613: mcedit or midnight commander?
<andreaa72>
nano pico are opensource -> you could change colors ...
<coolcoder613>
midnight commander is a whole file manager, and mcedit is a bit too complex
<erysdren>
shrug
<erysdren>
i was looking for a DOS Edit clone for non-dos and it's kinda difficult
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<andreaa72>
midnight commander -> mc -> has also ftp i guess ...
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<coolcoder613>
andreaa72: that means going down a whole 'nother rabbit whole with nano/pico clones, i've spent a couple days on that, i seem to like hecto best for Rust, and for C, there is a lot of editors based on kilo, maybe Cedit?
<coolcoder613>
erysdren: there is a thing called freedos edit for win32 or something
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<andreaa72>
ok coolcoder613 : you are free -> peace ;)
<coolcoder613>
The EDIT/pico/nano clone thing is to have a very simple editor for people who are very non-technical, and have probably not used anything less than MS Word
<coolcoder613>
To be embedded into my recipe-manger project
<coolcoder613>
*manager
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<Begasus>
npm WARN cli npm v10.2.1 does not support Node.js v16.11.1. This version of npm supports the following node versions: `^18.17.0 || >=20.5.0`. You can find the latest version at https://nodejs.org/.
<Begasus>
time to update? ;)
<Begasus>
still works though
<andreaa72>
we have missed => 23 : 23 : 23 23 / 10 / 2023 xD
<andreaa72>
11 : 11 : 11 xD
<andreaa72>
binary number ...
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<linuxmaster>
still beta?
<erysdren>
yea
<Begasus>
nothing wrong with that :)
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<nephele>
Good day :)
<erysdren>
hello!
<andreasdr[m]>
Hi there.
<andreaa72>
Good Day nephele :)
<nephele>
In the wierd "Haiku is not bloat" topic pulkomandy digested haiku and arrived at a install size of about 270mb for the core system... that sounds to me like, if we shave this a bit, we get into a territory where we could package this as an efi application for rescue purposes
<nephele>
and just pluck it into the esp partition :3
<nephele>
I've personally done this with linuxes before (although there it's just compiling and throwing components together), but i think this could be quite nice, having a graphical /familiar/ enviroment to rescue the OS from if for some reason it is unable to boot or broken
<erysdren>
i like that idea
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<nephele>
probably throw out for example the game kit, media server, mail kit, midi kit etc. It depends a bit on how much storage those actually need
<nephele>
and drivers that are not neccesary in such an environment, say webcam drivers
<nephele>
and for applications preferences probably screen saver, Icon-O-Matic, WebPositive etc (maybe a minimal netsurf included instead?)
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<HaikuUser>
Hello
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<HaikuUser>
I'm trying Haiku OS for things of every day
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<andreasdr[m]>
Nice.
<andreasdr[m]>
And whats the outcome so far?
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<roracle>
testing from a VM
<roracle>
okay good lol
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<erysdren>
good afternoon!
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<roracle>
greetings :) i'm going over the C++ intro documents. i've learned some basic stuff before but this seems really easy to follow along with, i hope it stays that way lol
<roracle>
so let me ask this about C++ programming: is the assumption when compiling software to be independent completely from everything else, except that the OS (regardless of the OS) notices it and manages it within the bounds of the OS itself?
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<roracle>
and honestly, i don't understand many things because there's stuff taken for granted by a lot of programming books. I pretty much NEED to know what "outdata" and "indata" means. this is the very first time i've seen it called that, as many programming tutorials are just "void funciton(void)" and never explain what tf "void" means or why they are where they are or the meaning of their location, etc
<roracle>
i want to know how the computer thinks, basically. if i know how it thinks, it makes it easier to understand.
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<andreasdr[m]>
If you reallly want to know how computers work under the hood check some assembly youtube videos.
<roracle>
:( everything just seems so complicated these days
<phschafft>
hm.
<roracle>
i had watched videos about assembly used to program the NES and that was complicated because it had to do with addressing the ram and processor busses and other things of that nature, seemed complicated
<phschafft>
to try to answer your question regarding the OS as easy as possible:
<phschafft>
basically all programs that are native to the CPU run directly on it. there is no awareness of things like the OS to begin with. However (and that is the fun part):
<phschafft>
sometimes the CPU cannot or doesn't want (persionssion,...) to do something the program tries.
<phschafft>
this might be an invalid command, or doing a valid command however with parameters the CPU can not work with.
<phschafft>
in that case the CPU can perform a special action and ask some other software for help.
<phschafft>
normally that other software is the operating system.
<phschafft>
so for example if you ask to open a file, that is something the CPU doesn't know anything about. so it will just pass that to the OS.
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<phschafft>
same for when you do access something you shouldn't.
<roracle>
ah, okay
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<phschafft>
the program it passes that to can now take any action it wants. for example handle that (like opening the file).
<roracle>
so a C++ program pretty much acts as though it's the only program the processor is running unless otherwise asked by the code, then?
<phschafft>
however there is no way of doing this. so for example some parts of the OS may use this to talk to other parts of the OS.
<phschafft>
or the OS calls some userland program (think about a userland driver).
<phschafft>
yes.
<roracle>
okay cool, that makes more sense
<phschafft>
that is also why you can write code that does fun things. for example I once wrote a tiny progam that prints hello world. you could use the exact same program to do that on linux, openbsd, freebsd, or directly boot it as if it is an operating system.
<roracle>
ooooh that... okay that makes sense about the assembler part then.
<phschafft>
:)
<roracle>
because it's comptuer language when it translates to assembly, correct?
<roracle>
not "OS language" but basic computer language
<phschafft>
yes, e.g. C++ -> asm -> object code -> executable.
<phschafft>
yes.
<roracle>
woot, okay, i'm a good student :P
<roracle>
i really am a fast learner as long as the teacher is good :)
<phschafft>
asm is basically just a text form of the actual commands the CPU understands.
<phschafft>
and object code is just a file with the binary form of that.
<phschafft>
so you can convert that back to asm.
<roracle>
binary being the "on off" commands sent to the CPU?
<phschafft>
and an executable is just all the object code (all the files) put together into one big file.
<roracle>
executable, like an exe or bin file?
* phschafft
nods.
<roracle>
well i have to get ready for rehersals, got a show opening saturday. i'll be back later to learn more, kupo
<phschafft>
for example asm <-> object code: there is this command do nothing for one cycle. on intel machines the asm text is "nop", and the object code is a byte with the value 144.
<phschafft>
so if you have one byte with the value 144 and point the CPU to it (seting the program counter to it's location) than the CPU will just wait one cycle.
<phschafft>
and if you have a program file, for example an exe, you can have exactly that byte in that file and it does exactly that. (just that there is more in those files so for example the operating system knows what that file is and how to work with it)
<roracle>
thanks for helping me understand these things. i was born in 82, and didn't have my own computer until 95, so i missed the early days of programming. Windows 95 didn't really give us any tools to develop, they kind of did the gatekeeper thing on that pretty hardcore
<roracle>
but anyway, i have to jet, gotta shower, eat, and get to rehersals
<roracle>
have a good one, i'll be back on later
* roracle
is idle: Getting stuff done that doesn't involve computers :P
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<coolcoder613>
Good morning
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<dorje>
Can someone give me an example of a Haiku Picture file? I heard that it supports vectors and bitmaps, and would like to see