ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
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<Al2O3> has anyone looked at some of the reimplementation of libc stuff done in asm to include in Haiku?
<scanty> that would be fun.
<Al2O3> seems there is a guy on ##asm that has just done so for super high speed computing.
<Al2O3> would be neat to talk to him about it and seeing about it being implemented into Haiku.
<scanty> i'm actually working on some ASM lately.
<Al2O3> I messaged this guy on ##asm, and we'll see what he says.
<Al2O3> seemed cool right away when I joined asking about the focus or dominate type of ASM programmers.
<Al2O3> I'm more a 8 bit person from the 70s and 8s.
<Al2O3> apparently they are working on 'macro' type stuff, SSE to me looks like ASM macro from large PDP systems and CDC systems that I used to do work on.
<scanty> can't we just get a couple of guys together and fork libc
<Al2O3> sure could.
<scanty> i would be interested
<Al2O3> but this guy apparently did the libc all in SSE
<scanty> that's..... interesting.
<Al2O3> e.g. I recently completed a project to reimplement all the libc string functions with SSE for better performance
<Al2O3> that was his call out to welcome me and my question about 8/16 or 32/64 folks.
<Al2O3> super high speed computing.
<Al2O3> don't see why not pull that into Haiku.
<Al2O3> but if its private, another story.
<Al2O3> Not sure if has tested/rolled out, or its alpha
<scanty> i don't know whether or not i could implement things in SSE or MMX, but defintely "regular" assembly
<Al2O3> don't know if intel has their own docs, or who has what.
<Al2O3> I'm not familiar with MMX or SSE per se, just reading up on it.
<Al2O3> apparently its a super set of highly optimized math commands
<scanty> yeah, there are some interesting instructions.
<Al2O3> reminds me very much of macro
<Al2O3> only in the big fat arrays of handling stuff
<Al2O3> not the language/nomenclature per se
<Al2O3> back in the day :)
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<scanty> i'm more of a 6502 fan.
<Al2O3> that is where I lived for many years.
<Al2O3> and its variations.
<scanty> i wrote a 6502 emulator in assembly.
<Al2O3> and incarnations.
<Al2O3> still got it or lost to floppy and HD history?
<scanty> nope, still got it.
<Al2O3> you wrote a 6502 simulator/emulator in 6502?
* OscarL remembers using Zadig's `/dev/misc/amdcpy` driver to replace BeOS memcpy with one optimized for AMD CPUs (from 2004 :-D)
<scanty> no i wrote a 6502 emulator in assembly.
<Al2O3> in which asm?
<scanty> x86/x64
<Al2O3> ah, x86
<Al2O3> lol, was it basically all mapings?
<Al2O3> or a full front end emulation/simulator?
<Al2O3> for sale?
<Al2O3> commercial or just to learn x86 and 6502 ASM?
<scanty> everything. nope, it's open and free
<Al2O3> cool.
<Al2O3> GUI?
<Al2O3> now that would be a hoot to bring over Haiku on x86, and even have it ported to other installs.
<scanty> nope, it's just for emulating 6502, no graphics or anything.
<Al2O3> github?
<scanty> hold on i'll upload a copy to my shell
<Al2O3> neat, would like to grab it and see if it runs or compiles on my xeon '06 mac intosh.
<Al2O3> without GUI, just cli, it might be little to no real hard work.
<scanty> so 32 bit?
<Al2O3> 32 or 64
<Al2O3> I'm on old xeon
<scanty> so 32 bit then i'm assuming
<Al2O3> X5365
<Al2O3> 32 or 64
<Al2O3> Instruction Set 64-bit
<Al2O3> got it
<Al2O3> TY for sharing
<scanty> sure, i can upload the 64 bit one, too if you want.
<Al2O3> please do
<Al2O3> I'm on 64
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<Al2O3> I have nasm on this system, commands to compile recommended?
<scanty> nasm -f elf
<Al2O3> TY
<Al2O3> do I need to find util.inc?
<scanty> Al2O3, -f elf64
<scanty> oh let me upload it
<Al2O3> yah, some stuff missing
<scanty> hold on i'll make an archive for you.
<Al2O3> TY
<scanty> bzip2 ok?
<Al2O3> sure
<Al2O3> or just .Z
<Al2O3> :)
<Al2O3> if you want to head to the 90s
<Al2O3> brb, beer and pee time
<scanty> ok, gimme a little bit, it's not compiling right now, haven't tested it in a while.
<scanty> i will msg you the link to DL when I get it going\
<Al2O3> TY
<Al2O3> no rush
<Al2O3> good luck.
<scanty> sorry, haven't touched this code in quite a while
<Al2O3> '12
<Al2O3> :)
<Al2O3> surprised it went to bed not compiling.
<Al2O3> looks very compact and simple.
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<Al2O3> got it, now -f elf64 right?
<Al2O3> and do youhave the 32 as a package and working too?
<Al2O3> compiled to .o here no problem.
<Al2O3> curious other than .inc, what was the issue?
<scanty> part of the test suite (which is not included) was causing a compiler error that I couldn't fix unless I sat down with it for a while, and I wasn't in the mood
<scanty> will have to look into it
<Al2O3> lol
<Al2O3> well, if you have that test suite at some point, happy to grab it too.
<scanty> 32-bit version should compile with the included header and util.inc
<Al2O3> got some 6502 sample to run though it?
<scanty> yeah I'm going to look into why it's not working.
<Al2O3> doing the 32 now
<scanty> the test suite has a bunch of code, i'm trying to figure out why it won't compile.
<scanty> 32-bit is just -f elf for compiling
<Al2O3> errors on 32 compile
<Al2O3> lines 58-89 bender32.asm:89: error: parser: instruction expected
<Al2O3> that kind of stuff
<Al2O3> nasm -f elf bender32.asm
* OscarL is getting really slow download speeds while updating packages. Never get more than 240-270 KiB/s, but now is 6-55 KiB/s. And now it froze at 6.69 KiB/s :-(
<Al2O3> with bender.hbender32.asmutil.inc
<scanty> hrm
<Al2O3> nasm -f elf64 bender.asm worked fine
<Al2O3> nasm -f elf bender32.asm did not
<scanty> looking into the 32bit version now.
<Al2O3> TY for your time
<scanty> sure
<Al2O3> futurama, a fav of mine by the way :)
<scanty> all right, I will look into it tomorrow
<scanty> something is wrong with the 32 version apparently, thanks for bringing that to my attention
<scanty> /usr/bin/ld: i386 architecture of input file `bender.o' is incompatible with i386:x86-64 output
<scanty> weird
<scanty> i guess it wants a 32 bit compiler?
<Al2O3> apparently
<scanty> i guess i can set up a VM, but not tonight.
<scanty> 64 bit is OK, though?
<scanty> (meaning it builds)
<Al2O3> sure, fine with me, just interested to have the 32 bit and I do, but won't compile on my 64
<Al2O3> weird.
<Al2O3> I mean I used -f elf
<Al2O3> you would think that 64 would default to 32, maybe elf32?
<Al2O3> man paging it now
<scanty> i tried -f elf32
<scanty> doesn't build.
<Al2O3> BITS 16, BITS 32 or BITS 64 switches the default processor mode for which nasm is generating code: it is equivalent
<Al2O3> to USE16 or USE32 in DOS assemblers.
<Al2O3> yah, interesting
<scanty> yes
<Al2O3> huh, well 64 is fine.
<Al2O3> hope you can figure it out, that is weir.d
<Al2O3> I would expect 32 to compile your 32 bit version NP
<scanty> yeah, I will look into it tomorrow.
<Al2O3> sleep well, again thanks for the hour of time sharing your work.
<scanty> sure
<Al2O3> very clean and sweet reading
<scanty> thanks :^)
<scanty> i'm going to try and get that test suite going for you tomorrow
<Al2O3> that would be cool.
<Al2O3> much appreciated
<scanty> np
<Al2O3> can re-learn a lot from it
<Al2O3> I used to write test regressions in my sleep
<scanty> defintiely
<scanty> haha
<Al2O3> 1000s a year
<Al2O3> :)
<Al2O3> laterz
<scanty> all righty, i'll keep you in the loop for that test suite
<Al2O3> coolio
<Al2O3> good morning, good afternoon, good evening and good night
<scanty> haha, good night :^)
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<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] augiedoggie pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/37840478f105...77b18b4a773a
<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] augiedoggie 77b18b4 - zsh: completion fixes and cleanup (#9879)
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<coolcode1613_mac> I got a PCMCIA Ethernet card, i'm having trouble getting it working with BeOS
<Skipp_OSX> ha
<coolcode1613_mac> I also have a PCMCIA WiFi card....
<Skipp_OSX> ha HA
<coolcode1613_mac> I want to get networking!
<Skipp_OSX> welcome to my life 1998
<Skipp_OSX> Celeron 333 oh yeah
<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] augiedoggie pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-0/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/77b18b4a773a...ea7b0a57865f
<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] augiedoggie ea7b0a5 - zsh_completions: add recipe for 0.35.0 (#9880)
<Skipp_OSX> (I missed out on the venerable 300A)
<Skipp_OSX> overclock them babies to 450 no problem
<Skipp_OSX> clock reduced p3's with cache disabled
<coolcode1613_mac> The chipset is realtec rtl 8139(A)
<Skipp_OSX> 3Com 10/100 PCI IIRC
<coolcode1613_mac> It is a PCMCIA card, is there any chance of drivers?
<Skipp_OSX> chance yes, there was PCMCIA support, just not for that chipset
<coolcode1613_mac> Only for ne2k
<Skipp_OSX> yep
<Skipp_OSX> well othes too just not rte 8139
<Skipp_OSX> l
<coolcode1613_mac> I don't know what i did, but USB isn't working anymore
<coolcode1613_mac> Now, is there such a thing as serial port networking?
<phschafft> ppp?
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<coolcoder613_mac> Hmm.. I do have a modem port, will that help?
<coolcoder613_mac> It was for fax I think
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<augiedoggie> slip
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<zdykstra> God, that's bringing back memories
<coolcoder613_mac> But can I do that in BeOS?
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<augiedoggie> i don't recall ever trying to use slip anywhere so i'm not much help :P
<augiedoggie> if you have a serial port you could use some modem software to do file transfers
<augiedoggie> and a null modem cable to another computer
<coolcoder613_mac> Ok, how can I connect my mac to the serial port of my BeOS box?
<coolcoder613_mac> 5?
<augiedoggie> if it had a serial port then a null modem cable, otherwise a usb-serial adapter
<coolcoder613_mac> It is a m1 macbook, so only 2 USB-c ports
<zdykstra> I bought a USB C to serial adapter a few weeks ago to debug a kernel issue on a Thinkpad X13s, heh
<zdykstra> Also a laptop with just two USB C ports
<coolcoder613_mac> I can always do USB C > USB A > Serial
<Skipp_OSX> 5 is correct
<Al2O3> are M1 lappies now dirt cheap refurb or used?
<Al2O3> and if so what was if any the most reliable M1
<coolcoder613_mac> Skipp_OSX: I guessed based how many thing where open
<Al2O3> I understand that most maccies are now on M3?
<coolcoder613_mac> No, the *newest* macs are M3
<Al2O3> progressing quickly to my desired M5 with 20-30 cores, lappy 17" and all for 1000 or less?
<Al2O3> I dream of a day when I can buy a lappy, that will have M5, 20-30 cores, 17" and refurb or MSRP for 1000 or less.
<Al2O3> and run VMs, so I can do old OSX on them
<Skipp_OSX> depends on how you count it there are more like 500
<Skipp_OSX> but split into 5 main branches
<Al2O3> 500 cores in M3?
<Al2O3> 100 each branch?
<Al2O3> this is all Cortex-M3 based?
<coolcoder613_mac> I got this M1 MacBook Air for ~$1,267 AUD
<coolcoder613_mac> 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD
<coolcoder613_mac> Zero upgradeability
<Al2O3> bummer
<Al2O3> not interested but hope it works out for you
<coolcoder613_mac> I've had it for a while
<Al2O3> I'll wait, likely 2-3 more years likely.
<Al2O3> and I want VMs to run on it that will allow me to run older MacOSX on it.
<Al2O3> if not, that is a dead end for me.
<zdykstra> I got my x13s for $450 - 32gb ram, m.2 2242 slot, 8 cores, 1920x1200 screen
<Al2O3> what is an x13?
<zdykstra> An ultra portable arm thinkpad
<Al2O3> https://www.google.com/url?esrc=s&q=&rct=j&sa=U&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/1786ge5/x13_gen_4_amd_vs_macbook_m2_pro_m2/&ved=2ahUKEwjz-rHFi4mDAxWkMDQIHUMqDywQFnoECAoQAg&usg=AOvVaw3tiwjEA3tQC5xLGvHTvj-D ???
<zdykstra> No, x13s
<Al2O3> does it VM so you can run OSX on it?
<Al2O3> licensed or not?
<Al2O3> I don't care, I know the channel may, but I don't.
<Al2O3> I own licenses for Snow Kitty
<zdykstra> Windows can do VMs, Linux can't (yet)
<coolcoder613_mac> I've ran a 10.0 VM
<Al2O3> are you seriouis, linux doesnt' have commercial or otherwise open source VM yet?
<zdykstra> No chance in hell of running OS X on it, virtualized or not
<zdykstra> ...
<Al2O3> lol, well down that road I don't go
<coolcoder613_mac> My grandfather got a refurbished 2011 mac mini for $200 AUD
<zdykstra> Of course Linux can do virtualization
<zdykstra> This is a niche niche aarch64 laptop - Linux is still bringing it up to speed.
<Al2O3> oh, so on your lappy, VMs are not supported.
<Al2O3> got that, ty for clarity
<zdykstra> You can virtualize OS X on Linux, but old hardware is pretty cheap and a lot less painful
<Al2O3> well, then I wait another 2-3 years, I figure '27 or so will be the year of my considering a new solution to my problems...
<Al2O3> zdykstra: I have a ton of old hardware, and yes it all runs native and cheap.
<Al2O3> Just heats the room.
<Al2O3> :)
<Al2O3> carbonized footprint and all.
<Al2O3> love it, hate it, but mostly love it, thus I can wait 2-3 years.
<zdykstra> As a guy with a dual G5, I hear you
<coolcoder613_mac> How can i build slirp for my mac?
<Al2O3> I ahve dual G4, dual G5, and dual (8 cores) Xeon (4 of them)
<zdykstra> I won't run that thing any more, it's power hungry and so slow
<Al2O3> I'm now on one fo the 8 core xeon.
<Al2O3> love it, 200K in licenses I own on it, and won't move from it in this lifetime.
<Al2O3> its a boat anchor, and that is my life :)
<Al2O3> gets the job done.
<zdykstra> coolcoder613_mac: macports or fink probably has something
<zdykstra> Or maybe not, that's a pretty ancient communication technique
<Skipp_OSX> get a 2018 mini
<Skipp_OSX> fairly cheap, runs virtualization, upgrade to 64 gb, Mac, supported, i3 variant of the 8100B which scores a base 1000 points on Geekbench 4 is it is the limitation.
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<Al2O3> how is fairly cheap?
<Al2O3> 100-200 usd
<Al2O3> or 600-800?
<Al2O3> and what mini configuration?
<Skipp_OSX> it depends on config
<Al2O3> lowest possible??
<Al2O3> I mean I'm on 2006 hardware.
<Skipp_OSX> once it starts to cost as much as a m2 mini then it's not worth it
<Skipp_OSX> maybe w/ upgrades it is but that's the cutoff
<Al2O3> to me cheap is 100 dollars 4 years ago, and 2-3 hours learning on these for upgrades, ordering 100 in parts (CPUs, ram) and done.
<Al2O3> I have <200 in each of these coal burning lovers
<Al2O3> 700 total for all.
<Al2O3> maybe sell them to collectors and upgrade?
<Al2O3> keep one for 'baseline backup'
<Al2O3> got 3 sitting here as backups, 1 used for 4 years without much of an issue, wondering what does Apple have that entices me.
<Al2O3> and I'm coming up goose
<Skipp_OSX> range of $200-300
<Al2O3> that is not nuts bad.
<Al2O3> does haiku run on it since its intel?
<Al2O3> (assuming it is still in '18)
<Skipp_OSX> assuming you to grub stuff
<Skipp_OSX> do
<Al2O3> grub is the boot manager, hardware efi?
<Al2O3> boot loader
<Skipp_OSX> boot loader tricky on most newer Macs
<Skipp_OSX> bingo
<Al2O3> why so tricky?
<Al2O3> apple being crapple to folks?
<Skipp_OSX> apple
<Al2O3> sad
<coolcoder613_mac> cant compile slirp, but do have pppd
<Skipp_OSX> I have a 12 core 2009 Mac Pro I gotta try Haiku on.
<Skipp_OSX> 128 GiB of RAM oh yeah
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<Al2O3> for cheap? :)
<Al2O3> like 100 bucks.
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<coolcoder613_mac> Now i've got a 90's modem....
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<Al2O3> 34bis?
<Al2O3> coolcoder613[m]: internal, or external?
<Al2O3> for what platform of board if internal?
<Al2O3> and btw, do you have a dial up need? or just collecting.
<Al2O3> Twisted pair is in use,everywhere, but where are you??
<Al2O3> here is some fun memories… Back when shared phones existed, and also clusters of twised or untwisted were used in the 50s and 60s, some of that legacy stuff still existed with even dedicated lines (not party). So as party lines were replaced, or additionaly added lines, you could at times still pick up conversation or crosstalk from neighbors.
<Al2O3> it was fun to just pick up the line at night, and let it go 'dead' and or call someone and have them keep their circuit open and the connection live, and listen to the cross talk.
<Al2O3> the shit you heard.
<Al2O3> and i mean clustered as in unshielded and poorly wrapped, or wound.
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<Al2O3> Not only do I still have and cherish the two books mentioned by this author, but the book that helped shape my views and practices, Inman and Inman
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<Al2O3> and some great books also, which i have or had most https://forum.system-cfg.com/viewtopic.php?p=215506
<Al2O3> great to see so many still doing 65xyz coding or interested in it
<coolcoder613_mac> Al2O3: external
<Al2O3> cool, literally :)
<Al2O3> so POTS
<Al2O3> and dual twisted pair if its 56bis as best as I recall.
<Al2O3> maybe only on pair, my bad
<Al2O3> I think fractional frame required 2 pairs of twisted
<coolcoder613_mac> I'm just trying to somehow get networking working in BeOS
<Al2O3> oh cool
<Al2O3> I'm talking more of the CO and hardware requirements.
<Al2O3> sorry
<Al2O3> is networking not working in BeOS or Haiku?
<coolcoder613_mac> (I don't know much about the modem, i just got it from my granfather)
<Al2O3> nice of your grampy
<Al2O3> :)
<Al2O3> is it zirxel or something like that, or hayes?
<Al2O3> can you send me a link to an uploaded file of the underside with model/serial?
<coolcoder613_mac> Al2O3: I recently got a 1999 laptop which i installed BeOS PE on...
<Al2O3> oh, that is nice, about the same era, about 3 years after NeXT->Apple, and a year or two before asset sale of Be Inc.
<Al2O3> coolcoder613[m]: if you have a phone, maybe take and post a photo of the underside of the old modem your grampy gave you
<coolcoder613_mac> The modem is red, and it says speed demon on the top..
<Al2O3> is it from the 90s you say? or newer?
<Al2O3> maybe a Phasecom
<Al2O3> it has maybe "LED Status Indicators"
<Al2O3> :)
<Al2O3> asym cable from the early 2000s it seems
<coolcoder613_mac> http://0x0.st/H36H.JPG
<Al2O3> never seen that model of modem in my life, until now
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<coolcoder613_mac> Me neither ;)
<Al2O3> what region of the world was it from?
<coolcoder613_mac> Australia
<Al2O3> and also, do you have photos of the underside.
<Al2O3> labels maybe
<Al2O3> maybe swann
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<Al2O3> maybe that is V90
<Al2O3> and this may help you too
<Al2O3> down on that last link is maybe the black version of your modem.
<Al2O3> maybe the day yours was made, they ran out of black sharpie pens.
<Al2O3> either way, I'm sure someone has that modem other than you, and they are nerd to get it running in haiku as well :)
<Al2O3> well, here you go
<Al2O3> looks to be a V.90
<Al2O3> apparently 99 aus originally.
<Al2O3> likely standard protocol instructions
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<coolcoder613_mac> I'm going to try using my raspi with slirp...
<Al2O3> might be a bit easier
<Al2O3> or less tedious
<Al2O3> cool red modem, with a jogger/sprinter
<Al2O3> might make for a nice door stop
<Al2O3> or sling it at a roo
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<coolcoder613_mac> And... raspi causes KDL
<coolcoder613_mac> in thread usb_enum_dpc
<coolcoder613_mac> I wish i has a USB Serial cord, it would really simplify things...
<coolcoder613_mac> "< Al2O3> or sling it at a roo" lol
<Al2O3> ya like that :) from a dumb fucking american
<Al2O3> :)
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<Al2O3> lol, you don't have a USB serial cord, no shit?
<Al2O3> I have about 100 here.
<Al2O3> too bad its like 200 dollars to ship and import to AUS
<Al2O3> come on over, I'll give you a few.
<Al2O3> WTF, are you on the west coast of AUS? :)
<Al2O3> herding sheep, and scouring wool?
<coolcoder613_mac> I live in melbourne :)
<Al2O3> maybe your grampy has one, or a neighbor, just go didgeridoo for an afternoon, someone will send you a cable via a homing pigeon. :)
<Al2O3> that is a huge city
<Al2O3> freecycle.org?
<Al2O3> something equivalent down unda
<Al2O3> 5.078 million people, someone has USB cables for free, I mean someone does.
<Al2O3> 5000 people plus in that group, bet someone has a few they'd gift to you
<Al2O3> even meet up, and maybe take you for a tour of their roo hideaway
<coolcoder613_mac> In melbourne, the only kangaroos are in the zoo. ;)
<coolcoder613_mac> You have to gofurther out to see them in the wild
<coolcoder613_mac> Hmm... maybe in Jaycar...
<coolcoder613_mac> They ought to have such a cable
<Al2O3> not sure what jaycar is, but maybe that is a freecycle like network of people?
<Al2O3> freecycle melbourne has 5000+ nicks, so someone ther eis real and maybe has what you want.
<Al2O3> you will verly likely find all you want there, including predators
<Al2O3> so be careful and respectful, always verify, and then double check.
<Al2O3> I often won't go and get stuff unless I'm with someone else, and I have already talked to someone on the phone.
<Al2O3> be wise, be suspect, and be fre.
<Al2O3> good luck, and thanks for the modem hunt, that was fun.
<Al2O3> never seen that modem ever.
<Al2O3> I've seen loads.
<coolcoder613_mac> I got the laptop at a computer meet last sunday
<coolcoder613_mac> cost me $5
<coolcoder613_mac> Hmm... The laptop has infrared, is there anything that can do infrared transfer?
<Al2O3> not worth pursuing other than for slow, ultra slow historical reasons.
<Al2O3> as I recall there were folks that transfer protocols on top of IR
<coolcoder613_mac> I mean anything I might already have
<Al2O3> so slow, you could see the bits in the air :)
<Al2O3> oh, other devices?
<Al2O3> is this academic motivated, or practical?
<Al2O3> both the computer, and data transfer/connectivity?
<Al2O3> your only computer?
<Al2O3> your only means to get to the net outside of the apparent high speed you have now?
<Al2O3> aka, are you at a library and/or borrowing anothers computer?
<Al2O3> if not, then just use what you got, and focus on something else. But if educational, and backlearning, historically archiving and being a librarian… Not a bad hobby
<Al2O3> as for computer you have to net, ethernet to fast hub is the way to go.
<coolcoder613_mac> Well, I want to play around with BeOS
<coolcoder613_mac> And i want a better way to transfer files than a USB
<Al2O3> there is already a fax/data modem port
<coolcoder613_mac> And what can i do with it?
<Al2O3> check your manual, looks like a RJ-10 is there
<Al2O3> likely a working modem in the acer is still working, and if BeOS or Haiku has a driver for it (find out what chipset they used for that model of computer), you could dial into a ISP of your choosing.
<Al2O3> if however there is an RJ-45 type ethernet connect on that computer, see the manual, you could go that route, again if there is a driver for that device on that computer.
<Al2O3> 'device on that computer' is the ethernet interface.
<coolcoder613_mac> I think it's a winmodem
<coolcoder613_mac> There is no ethernet
<coolcoder613_mac> File Transfer Cable
<coolcoder613_mac> Besides using the infrared port, you can also transfer files between computers using a file transfer cable. Connect the file transfer cable between the parallel ports of the two computers and use your file transfer utility to perform the transfer.
<Al2O3> there is a port for cards you can source that are LAN
<Al2O3> so you can do ethernet, again just find the card and plug it in.
<Al2O3> you will be up and running on ethernet in a split second if that card/chipset is supported
<coolcoder613_mac> I got a PCMCIA Ethernet card but it is not supported
<Al2O3> ah
<Al2O3> well, that is a problem.
<coolcoder613_mac> I got a CMCIA Wireless card too
<Al2O3> well, getting dial up and modem is likely via USB or via the phone jack is indeed your option
<Al2O3> not sure on how to do it, but man I wish you the best!
<Al2O3> keep on keepin' on
<erysdren> how's it going party people
<coolcoder613_mac> Hello erysdren
* coolcoder613_mac wonders ~how old Al2O3 thinks he is
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<coolcoder613_mac> Hello Begasus
<Begasus> g'morning peeps
<Begasus> Hi coolcoder613_mac
<Begasus> Falkon running on 32bit :)
<coolcoder613_mac> +2
<coolcoder613_mac> In the depot?
<Begasus> kudos to 3dEyes!!
<Begasus> not yet, both buildmasters are lost :/
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<coolcoder613_mac> Is qtwebengine in the depot?
<Begasus> nope
<Begasus> re-opened issue at haikuports for it
<coolcoder613_mac> In BeOS, the screen turns off even when i'm using a USB mouse
<Begasus> don't use a mouse? ;)
<coolcoder613_mac> It is like screensaver but not
<coolcoder613_mac> It will not go black when i use a PS/2 keyboard or builtin mouse...
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<coolcoder613_mac> Hi tmtfx
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<coolcoder613_mac> I'm going to try something...
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<coolcoder613_mac> I'm going to use my raspi as a USB mass storage gadget,
<coolcoder613_mac> using ~/image.img
<coolcoder613_mac> which will be mounted in /mnt on the raspi
<coolcoder613_mac> which will be mounted in ~/BeOS on my mac via sshfs
<Begasus> not going the hard way are we? ;)
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<coolcoder613_mac> Now, when i make a change from BeOS, it does not show in the network server
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<tmtfx> Hi coolcoder613_mac
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<tmtfx> (3 hours later ^^')
<coolcoder613_mac> Hi tmtfx
<tmtfx> I'd like to ask you a favor, can you provide Translation modules? I'm quite confident we have reached a good point on storage ones (It lacks FilePanel, for which I need your help)
<coolcoder613_mac> I'll do it tomorrow morning (for me at UTC+11)
<tmtfx> oh yep! no need to rush for me :)
<coolcoder613_mac> My little project is growing up
<coolcoder613_mac> ;)
<Kokito> Does YAB work in 64-bit Haiku?
<tmtfx> :)
<coolcoder613_mac> Kokito: yes
<Kokito> Thanx coolcoder613_mac!
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<Al2O3> Good morning or otherwise to all.
<Al2O3> user by the name of FUZxxl apparently did all this work, it was a 1300 USD funded project from what I can tell.
<Al2O3> or was part of some larger fund raiser :) Not clear to me
<Begasus> ~> kdeconnect-cli -l
<Begasus> 0 apparaten gevonden
<Begasus> atleast some output :P
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<_-Caleb-_> Hola :-)
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<Al2O3> its apparently the entire libc optimized/rewritten in SSE.
<Al2O3> might be interesting to see about bringing that code once fully tested (if not already done so) into the realm of Haiku.
<Al2O3> either as a replacement of libc or an optional library compiled and able to leverage/use.
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<waddlesplash> Skipp_OSX: those menus look pretty crowded :/
<Skipp_OSX> thank you
<Skipp_OSX> I made a first attempt at making Shortcuts a real class. The Set methods in BContainerWindow can be integrated in, but the class name Shortcuts is conflicting
<waddlesplash> with what?
<waddlesplash> ActionsController makes sense then :-p
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<Skipp_OSX> go write in Java
<waddlesplash> MVC is used outside Java...
<Skipp_OSX> ActionsControllerMenuItemFactory
<waddlesplash> you need two Factories
<waddlesplash> also Actions refers to menu items
<waddlesplash> I'm just borrowing the terminology from Qt, which has both menu and toolbar items be Actions
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<Skipp_OSX> I got yelled at for doing that with AbstractSpinner
<Skipp_OSX> I need a Label factory too?
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<waddlesplash> Skipp_OSX: I'm being facetious lol
<waddlesplash> no factory needed
<waddlesplash> just one ActionsController or whatever, it can make, update, all the actions
<Skipp_OSX> ok
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<Skipp_OSX> The class rapidly pulls in more and more from ContainerWindow though, right now it is nicely clean and separate.
<Skipp_OSX> So for example in InfoWindow HeaderView right now it doesn't need anything special to access Shortcuts() but once I make it a "real" class, I'll have to locate the BContainerWindow I want.
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<Skipp_OSX> I'm concerned about the purity of Shortcuts class, I like that it's a dumb class right now.
<Skipp_OSX> it doesn't know anything about anything, it just hands out BMenuItem's on request
<Skipp_OSX> Once I smart it up, question becomes how much of BContainerWindow do I include
<Skipp_OSX> just the Sets, enabling/disabling items too, building menus?
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<bitigchi[m]> Skipp_OSX: real name attribute still shows the English name
<bitigchi[m]> This is under menu_entries item, which shows when show parent folder is clicked
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<Skipp_OSX> just to be clear, both Name and "Real name" show the untranslated English name, correct?
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<bitigchi[m]> <Skipp_OSX> "just to be clear, both Name and..." <- Affirmative
<Skipp_OSX> thank you bitigchi[m]
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<Skipp_OSX> This means that the string is def not available and needs to be made so.
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<bitigchi[m]> Skipp_OSX: There are strings available for translation though
<bitigchi[m]> With the context B_USER_DESKBAR_DIRECTORY/Desktop applets
<bitigchi[m]> For instance
<bitigchi[m]> Copied from Pootle
<Skipp_OSX> but not in Tracker I'm guessing
<Skipp_OSX> Tracker prob just needs to interrogate Deskbar and fill the names in.
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<waddlesplash> Skipp_OSX: well, maybe keeping it dumb makes sense for now, then.
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<waddlesplash> I think there are ways it could be refactored to move more logic from ContainerWindow without actually importing parts of CW
<waddlesplash> but, maybe that can wati.
<waddlesplash> wait
<Skipp_OSX> The Set... methods I believe should be ok, it's the rest that starts to be questionable.
<Skipp_OSX> I believe I can take the last remaining shortcut logic out of live menu PR
<Skipp_OSX> PR/PS
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<Skipp_OSX> then LiveMenu will be a very small class, looks for B_MODIFIERS_CHANGED, calls Update(), that's it, everything else done outside.
<Begasus> closing down, cu peeps!
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<kallisti5[m]> random question. Would it be better to sort interfaces in the "Networking" preflet under an "Interfaces" group?
<kallisti5[m]> Today they're all under the top level. Example: https://imgur.com/a/aWvR1lP
<kallisti5[m]> The reason i'm asking is because if we want the network preflet to manage vpn connections, stuff's going to get messy quick
<Skipp_OSX> trust your instincts
<kallisti5[m]> (a vpn connection is a "vpn connection" and a tun/0 interface), all of which will (and should!) show up here
<kallisti5[m]> I get in trouble when I trust my instincts lol
<kallisti5[m]> https://imgur.com/a/PnptATV I think it looks pretty nice in terms of "connections"
<Skipp_OSX> yes ok that's more like it
<Skipp_OSX> nobody is going to complain about a separate section
<kallisti5[m]> Ok. That's been my feeling. Even levels will make everything clearer. I think we were trying to be too fancy with "all interfaces at the top level, then sublevels for services
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<PulkoMandy> I don't get the distinction between "connections" and "interfaces"
<PulkoMandy> I would put them at the same level (I don't really care if it's the top level or under a header)
<PulkoMandy> The vpn connction has its own ipv4 and (possibly) ipv, settings under it like other network interfaces/connections, right?
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<PulkoMandy> I don't think we were trying to be fancy there, just attempting to have something reasonable to navigate with not too many nested tabs and listview levels. This is the 3rd or 4th rewrite of network preferences because the previous ones were too confusing
<Skipp_OSX> is there a secret to making unicode combining characters work?
<waddlesplash> Skipp_OSX: I don't know if we support them yet...
<waddlesplash> app_server font rendering code might not handle them right
<waddlesplash> kallisti5[m]: personally I think the connections should all be at the same level as interfaces and in same group
<Skipp_OSX> well that explains it
<waddlesplash> they're network connections
<OscarL> FWIW... While, prima facie, the distinction bewteen "Hardware" and "Software level" connections/interfaces sounds easy to grok... The only real distinction, from a dumb user point of view (using myself as the reference point), seems to be: are thoese actually connected or not (ethernet is connected... does it belongs under "Connections"?) So... I think I agree with PulkoMandy here... "aren't Connections/Interfaces basically the same"?
<kallisti5[m]> OpenVPN == A network connection... (full message at <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/uqFtvURMdZytdayBFSpwFSYG>)
<kallisti5[m]> A vpn connection would be like:... (full message at <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/REIvTYoDYuhrweTjfgQErCJo>)
<waddlesplash> kallisti5[m]: except an OpenVPN never exists apart from tun/tap.
<waddlesplash> look at how other OSes do this
<kallisti5[m]> I did, it's how we got here :-)
<kallisti5[m]> I guess they hide tun/0, and just mix it with interfaces
<kallisti5[m]> So, the alternative is we mix vpn "connections" with interfaces, but hide things like tun/0 which are technically interfaces, but we assume the user doesn't want to see them lol
<PulkoMandy> Just show tun0 as an interface next to the other interfaces? And name it "openvpn" or some other useful name, sure
<kallisti5[m]> that's the thing.. tun0 is just an interface.. there's nothing about openvpn tied to it
<kallisti5[m]> Gnome does it by hiding tun0, and having the "openvpn connection" without showing your tun's ip, netmask, etc
<OscarL> Where we would place A SLIP/PLIP/DCC connection? under /dev/ports/0, /dev/parallel/0, or under A SLIP/PLIP/DCC tab?
<Habbie> don't see why it would go under parallel
<OscarL> s/we would/would we/ (sorry for the broken "English" :-/)
<Habbie> remind me, where do ethernet and wifi go?
<kallisti5[m]> Don't mix what's in /dev with what's in the network preflet :-)
<kallisti5[m]> two different things
<kallisti5[m]> ethernet / wifi go in /dev/net/(driver)/0 , 1 ,etc
<Habbie> ah
<Habbie> and where does tun go?
<OscarL> Habbie: that's my point... VPN goes under VPN, not under TUN/TAP, same as PLIP vs /dev/parallel.
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<kallisti5[m]> OscarL: though.. doesn't SLIP not require a program to start / monitor it?
<OscarL> but I'm known to be easily confused, so I should probably just log out :-D
<kallisti5[m]> aka .. OpenVPN requires: OpenVPN -> OS tun interface
<kallisti5[m]> Ethernet is... just the device ethernet
<kallisti5[m]> wireguard is wireguard -> OS tun interface
<kallisti5[m]> SLIP is just a serial port
<kallisti5[m]> ls
<Habbie> well, SLIP is an interface running on top of a serial port, in most OSes
<kallisti5[m]> sure, but it doesn't require a userspace application to manage the connection
<Habbie> depending on the OS, yes
<OscarL> kallisti5[m]: sounds like they are all (possibly unconnected) connections to me! (end user doesn't cares too much about the underlaying Hardware interface?)
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<kallisti5[m]> Yeah, the root thing is "do we want to be technically accurate, or make things squishy"
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<waddlesplash> kallisti5[m]: VPN stuff should get merged with TUN interface, yes.
<coolcoder613_32> Good morning
<kallisti5[m]> ok. Then network interfaces within the preflet shouldn't show tun/tap
<OscarL> I think that the Connections vs Services in the Network preflet makes sense.... separating different types of connections by hardware/software interaces... not so much.
<waddlesplash> at least not if the tun/tap is for a VPN
<kallisti5[m]> Then, we let the VPN "connection" worry about all of that and don't expose it
<kallisti5[m]> waddlesplash: a tun/tap is just a tun/tap
<waddlesplash> no you should show IP and DNS and all that
<waddlesplash> maybe they can't be changed if it's the VPN handling that
<Habbie> indeed, interfaces have properties (IP/DNS/...) that are just like other interfaces
<kallisti5[m]> gnome hides everything tun/tap from the user. You get a "vpn" and a connect or disconnect
<kallisti5[m]> I think the risk is, by showing the tun, users will get confused
<kallisti5[m]> the openvpn "connection" could show the tun/tap's ip... but it would have to figure out what tun/tap is linked to which openvpn/wireguard/etc session
<waddlesplash> yes
<kallisti5[m]> which cycles me back to... do we want the complexity of "meta" interfaces within the network preflet... or just split apart "connections" and "interfaces"
<waddlesplash> meta.
<kallisti5[m]> ohkay, meta it is. I'll rework the patchset to hide tun/tap's instead :-)
<waddlesplash> ... no
<waddlesplash> the vpn thing should probably embed the interface views too
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<kallisti5[m]> a tun/tap is just a tun/tap and doesn't know a vpn client is running attached to it
<Habbie> well, it does know if a process is connected, right
<kallisti5[m]> not in the network config preflet
<Habbie> ok sure
<kallisti5[m]> also, it's a read / write thing.. not a "attachment?
<kallisti5[m]> s/?/"/
<waddlesplash> 4:40 PM <kallisti5[m]> not in the network config preflet
<waddlesplash> we don't expose that yet
<waddlesplash> but we can
<kallisti5[m]> hm. Does openvpn maintain an open connection to the tun/tap? I guess it would have to for incoming traffic
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<kallisti5[m]> However.. even something like "consumer count" would be weird
<kallisti5[m]> 0, 1 ? is it openvpn? etc
<waddlesplash> there can only be one consumer at any time
<kallisti5[m]> reporting the pid might be... problematic from a security standpoint?
<waddlesplash> interface is exclusive open
<kallisti5[m]> what about our network stack?
<waddlesplash> ?
<Habbie> reporting the pid sounds very useful to me
<waddlesplash> well it could be multiple pids technically
<waddlesplash> it's an FD, so it could be opened once and then fork()
<waddlesplash> but that would be odd
<kallisti5[m]> yeah. It's probably why nobody does it :-)
<kallisti5[m]> unless we name the tun's 🤮
<kallisti5[m]> openvpn/0 == tun/0
<waddlesplash> kallisti5[m]: uh. openvpn knows what TUN it's on?
<kallisti5[m]> but then... multiple openvpn connections, who's who
<waddlesplash> don't ask TUN, ask openvpn
<waddlesplash> presumably the pref panel has to communicate with openvpn anyway...
<kallisti5[m]> lol.. kinda. Openvpn "dynamically" opens a tun
<kallisti5[m]> dev tun
<kallisti5[m]> tun/0?
<kallisti5[m]> tun/1?
<waddlesplash> yes... and? again if the pref panel will control openvpn it has to know
<kallisti5[m]> right.. i'm not worried about a vpn preflet
<kallisti5[m]> it's the other way around i'm worried about
<waddlesplash> great, well, then the vpn preflet will merge with the tun interface preflet
<waddlesplash> that's the idea
<kallisti5[m]> interface tun/0 should I hide it?
<waddlesplash> no, you should merge with it!
<kallisti5[m]> which AI language model should we use for all of this?
<kallisti5[m]> llama 7p?
<waddlesplash> LOL
<kallisti5[m]> Haiku now ships 3.2G of llama language models to merge the interfaces in the network preflet <3
<Habbie> nooooo
<waddlesplash> I don't get what the problem is with what I am saying
<waddlesplash> OpenVPN must open() an interface in /dev
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<waddlesplash> therefore, OpenVPN knows what interface it open'd
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<kallisti5[m]> for me it's just the loose connections How do we ask openvpn?
<waddlesplash> therefore, the network VPN preferences panel can look it up
<kallisti5[m]> there's no api or anything... we're parsing logs at this level
<waddlesplash> there isn't?
<waddlesplash> what's GNOME doing?
<kallisti5[m]> gnome doesn't do any of this stuff, like I said
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<kallisti5[m]> It just manages the openvpn config + connection
<kallisti5[m]> it doesn't link the tun to anything
<kallisti5[m]> gnome's network manager. run openvpn, this config. openvpn dies? oops it's closed
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<waddlesplash> ok
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<_TmTFx_> thank you coolcoder! :)
<waddlesplash> appears OpenVPN has plugin support?
<waddlesplash> also aren't there GUIs for it?
<waddlesplash> well anyway fetching PIDs should be possible, and I don't think this is a security concern, and if it is we can privchk it
<kallisti5[m]> wait
<kallisti5[m]> DAG NABBIT
<kallisti5[m]> I don't know if Gnome uses it
<kallisti5[m]> also, this whole thing is feature creeping to the moon lol
<waddlesplash> kallisti5[m]: third party opportunity, as they say
<waddlesplash> I don't think we should have OpenVPN network gui plugin builtin
<waddlesplash> this can be shipped with ovpn itself
<Habbie> +1
<kallisti5[m]> eh. it's common from these vpn connections to be managed by the os now-a-days
<kallisti5[m]> I mean..
<kallisti5[m]> however, yeah. This has all highlighted how much of a can of worms it is
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<coolcoder613_32> Hello HaikuUser
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<scanty> mmm, quick visit.
<scanty> coolcoder613_32, must've scared him away ^_^
<coolcoder613_32> ;(
<Habbie> blurring can have many causes
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<Al2O3> anyone interested in making the SSE libc asm optimized part of the x64 builds for haiku?
<scanty> i might be interested, i have some mmx copies for 32-bit.
<Al2O3> FUZxxi in ##asm did this
<Al2O3> it might be a nice option for performance users of Haiku
<scanty> Al2O3, haven't forgotten about the 6502 emulator, i'm going to look at it later for you.
<Al2O3> :)
<Al2O3> scanty: no worries mate
<scanty> :^)
<Al2O3> from what I understand, this libc high performance computer (mostly) reimplementation is pretty solid.
<Al2O3> FUZxxi is going to get me the test suites at some point, maybe sooner than later.
<Al2O3> its pretty much now open for consumption.
<Al2O3> I hope you slept well scanty
<Al2O3> I did, kinda
<scanty> thanks :^)
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<scanty> interesting read
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<Al2O3> nice
<scanty> yeah, shame they're not 64-bit
<Al2O3> is that the 16 and 32 :)
<Al2O3> ya