<Al2O3>
I wonder if he is programming C++/GUI and interested in Haiku now?
<Al2O3>
s/he/it/they/whatever
<Al2O3>
not sure it was a dude that looked like a lady or not.
<scanty>
hehe
<scanty>
i used beos throughout high school
<Al2O3>
so yah, its warm in parts of the US for sure this time of year.
<Al2O3>
oh cool.
<Al2O3>
did you have a boxen?
<Al2O3>
or a Intel install?
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<Al2O3>
or PPC?
<scanty>
I had a BeBox
<Al2O3>
neat, I did too
<Al2O3>
I had two
<scanty>
but also ran it on intel
<scanty>
i had two also!
<Al2O3>
original 66, and also 133
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<scanty>
i had to sell it though
<Al2O3>
I sold mine, didn't wnat to keep
<Al2O3>
I think I sold both in about 2004
<Al2O3>
or 3
<Al2O3>
just thought, you know this is museum shit now, sell it and use the cash to go smoke some meth.
<scanty>
yeah, it was just too slow for my needs
<Al2O3>
I never did the meth, but did sell
<scanty>
never did it, never plan to.
<scanty>
but i've done pretty much everything else
<Al2O3>
I had beos running on 4 proc systems too, PPII
<scanty>
neat
<Al2O3>
big hurking huge Dell as I recall.
<scanty>
I had a dual-700
<Al2O3>
I had 3-4 of them, two fro parts, two working.
<Al2O3>
got at gov auction.
<scanty>
cool
<Al2O3>
was fun, but again, complete waste of time.
<Al2O3>
dual 700 would be nice
<scanty>
yeah, it was a great machine.
<Al2O3>
that might be useable if there were apps.
<Al2O3>
hope haiku makes some headway this decade
<scanty>
I hope so.
<Al2O3>
I'm on OSX 10.6.8, stuck for 15 years, and happily so.
<Al2O3>
on 8 core xeon systems, cheese graters
<scanty>
I have MacBook but I generally use it for music only.
<Al2O3>
100 bucks each, not bad, but honestly I'd like to run Haiku if it was usable.
<Al2O3>
I use my system for 100s of apps that I hae licenses for, and don't go to 10.7 and above.
<Al2O3>
I'm stuck for good reason, about 200K in licenses I have :)
<scanty>
yeah i have to update some drivers
<scanty>
but i've been lazy lately.
<Al2O3>
are you on latest hardware and osx releases
<Al2O3>
works, plays, or just bored?
<scanty>
i got the macbook probably 10 years ago, works great for my needs
<scanty>
i think it's a dual i5
<Al2O3>
yah, know the trueht.
<Al2O3>
I have a MBP 06 and 09, both work fine.
<scanty>
yeah, i was thinking of doing some dev on it, but frankly, objective-C scares me
<Al2O3>
these 4x 8-core work great too, I think I have about 1000 total into it all, the first two were work and they gave tem to me later, and these graters were 100 each and I put about 75 into each.
<Al2O3>
oh, ObjC is nice
<scanty>
cool
<Al2O3>
been coding in it since about 88/89
<Al2O3>
not so much past decade.
<scanty>
oh wow
<scanty>
did you have a NeXT machine?
<Al2O3>
I was one of the early companies that did NS/OS dev.
<Al2O3>
I had many
<Al2O3>
5-6 cubes, maybe 6-8 slabs, all kinds of folks, and fun too. Them were the days.
<scanty>
wow cool. colour?
<Al2O3>
yep, dimension systems too
<scanty>
nice
<scanty>
I have a big Sun machine in storage.
<Al2O3>
it was nice, and fun, but steveo-jamba fucked us all up pretty good :)
<Al2O3>
oh, which Sun do you have?
<Al2O3>
sparc?
<Al2O3>
old 80s or 90s system?
<Al2O3>
I had some sparcs, but never really did much with unix on sun.
<Al2O3>
HP mostly in the 80s.
<Al2O3>
HPUX as I recall.
<scanty>
it's a blade-1000 2x900MHz (SPARC) and 1GB RAM. It was slow as molasses on a hot day
<Al2O3>
and then there was RISC with IBM and NS/OS
<Al2O3>
lol, yah.
<Al2O3>
ever have CGI stuff?
<scanty>
nope
<Al2O3>
they went to intel eventually at the end, but there stuff still brings in cash to collectors.
<scanty>
ARM is the way to go these days, IMO
<scanty>
i predicted the boom in ARM years ago.
<scanty>
and I believe Apple Silicon is ARM
<Al2O3>
or their own version of ARM, and many with RISC, CISC and ARM all predicted things.
<Al2O3>
its whatever flavor of the day is.
<Al2O3>
to me, it don't matter, not much at least.
<scanty>
hehe
<Al2O3>
costs, packages, and relaibility.
<Al2O3>
if ARM provides the best $$ point, and reliability, put all the tools on top, and let us coders uck things uck.
<scanty>
all the latest macs are apple silicon afaik
<Al2O3>
that is true, M1, 2 and 3 now.
<Al2O3>
I'm waiting for M5, 20-30 cores, 1000 for a laptop or workstation, and runs emulation so I can run 10.6.8 on it hackintosh or not.
<scanty>
neat
<Al2O3>
I'm thinking 3-4 years from now.
<scanty>
yeah, that's a lot of cores.
<Al2O3>
then I'll put all this hardware to rest, and stop heating the office with these PM1,1->2,1 systems.
<scanty>
i have a quad-core xeon 3.2GHz machine now. really nice
<Al2O3>
cool.
<Al2O3>
I think mine are … checking… 2x 3 ghz with each 4 core.
<scanty>
wow nice
<Al2O3>
they work, and for 170 rebuilt by me, I'm happy and have been for 4+ years now.
<Al2O3>
I have 4 of them, each 100 dollars, with 75 upgrade for ram, CPU, and display card (yes, 20, 30 and 25)
<Al2O3>
I think you can get these for that amount now, or a bit more, but these things consume electricity big time.
<scanty>
wow that is cheap
<Al2O3>
I got them cheap
<Al2O3>
but I dont' think they have increased in price all that much
<Al2O3>
friend set me up, had about 10 of them from an auction, and in early 20 at start of weirdness, he sold me 4.
<Al2O3>
I did the upgrades, took about 3 months.
<scanty>
neat
<Al2O3>
I was looking for cheap components, and eventually found all to do the job.
<Al2O3>
mess up part, they still do pretty much all I want.
<Al2O3>
I fundamentally don't have a drive to 'upgrade' hardware.
<scanty>
yeah, i expect to have this current PC for a few more years
<Al2O3>
I'm almost on the same page, M5 and in 3-4 years, I'll figure out if I keep these longer.
<Al2O3>
I certainly at some point will do a haiku hardware build in one of the cases :)
<Al2O3>
just to do it.
<Al2O3>
love the design.
<AlienSoldier>
Hi scanty
<Al2O3>
and seriously ,there is so much abandonware and freeware now that was commercial for 10.6.8, I'm not convinced upgrading is in my best interest.
<scanty>
i want to get back into haiku, but it's missing an actual mail client, and that's a killer
<scanty>
hi AlienSoldier@
<scanty>
AlienSoldier!
<Al2O3>
you could do web mail, I do.
<Al2O3>
not in haiku.
<Al2O3>
I don't use osx mail client.
<scanty>
oh really?
<AlienSoldier>
Yes i miss being able to use my gmail natively in haiku
<Al2O3>
yep, have for 20 years.
<Al2O3>
haven't use a mail client in 20+ years.
<scanty>
gmail is picky, it needs OAUTH2, which we don't have in haiku afaik
<Al2O3>
I use yahoo mail, hate it but its free and web
<Al2O3>
yahoo sucks :) but so does gmail. Have thought about going to private paid mail, and pop/smtp, or whatever is used now.
<scanty>
i was thinking to go back to verizon for my email
<Al2O3>
client side pop/smtp or webby?
<scanty>
client
<scanty>
imap
<Al2O3>
yah, well, if its free, and imap fast and furious, works for me too.
<Al2O3>
I just have a hard time paying for email.
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<scanty>
yeah, verizon internet isn't cheap
<Al2O3>
but then again, I have a hard time paying for anything.
<AlienSoldier>
me too, i have an emotional blockage about it :P
<Al2O3>
AlienSoldier: :)
<bjorkint0sh>
poverty sucks.
<Al2O3>
everyone should have a imap server at their house, and then let everyone else use their direct line of site access, and email accounts, like the old days.
<Al2O3>
and a good neighbor, that isn't going to read their emails.
<Al2O3>
and do the same with asterisk, and have free phone services.
* augiedoggie
uses one of the protonmail imap bridges with haiku
<moparisthebest>
Al2O3, wait are you saying you *don't* run a mail server at home? how strange
<Al2O3>
:)
<Al2O3>
no I don't.
<Al2O3>
but used to
<Al2O3>
I doknow you mean that tongue in cheek, and if not, god bless ya
<moparisthebest>
no time like the present to set that back up :D
<Al2O3>
I wish everyone would.
<Al2O3>
yah, well, I'm one lazy fuck
<Al2O3>
:)
<Al2O3>
I'm gonna have to donate 10 bucks to the cause of haiku, I haven't in a long time.
<Al2O3>
whatis the goal each year now?
<Al2O3>
10-20K?
<Al2O3>
I see google code still happens, and congrats on that.
<moparisthebest>
admittedly it's a giant PITA to set up, but after that it's pretty low maintenance
<Al2O3>
on haiku, or any system?
<scanty>
20K
<Al2O3>
I set up mail servers back on NS/OS and linux in mins usually.
<scanty>
they're almost there
<Al2O3>
cool.
<moparisthebest>
my stack is postfix+dovecot+rspamd now, linux
<Al2O3>
I'll head that way and donate.
<AlienSoldier>
inflation say hi to that goal
<Al2O3>
lol
<Al2O3>
inflation says 'good luck with that goal'
<Al2O3>
just print mo-money
<Al2O3>
its the solution.
<scanty>
they have almost 18K for the year
<Al2O3>
17.986
<scanty>
yeah
<AlienSoldier>
but Al2O3 10$ is not accounted yet :)
<Al2O3>
lol
<Al2O3>
I'm working on it
<Al2O3>
and I see Ryan Leavengood is still the man
<AlienSoldier>
hedeliverthegood
<Al2O3>
delivenbread
<Al2O3>
no yeast, just flour
<Al2O3>
its that time of year too.
<Al2O3>
happy channuka to the jews here, in 4 days.
<Al2O3>
3 days, my bad.
<scanty>
Al2O3, thanks!
<coolcoder613_mac>
Happy Chanukah to you too :)
<Al2O3>
TY coolcoder613[m]
<Al2O3>
may we all get at least 8 days of tops, and bottoms.
<Al2O3>
trying to PP with CC.
<Al2O3>
not sure browser is happy
<scanty>
heh, if i get only one gift i'll be happy.
<Al2O3>
if I get one notification of a transfer of funds, I'll be really happy
<Al2O3>
all 3 browsers I use don't cooperate with pp.
<Al2O3>
too bad, I'll get on a linux box and do this later.
<scanty>
pp?
<Al2O3>
PayFail
<Al2O3>
Mr. Elon Tusk's company of yesteryear
<scanty>
ah okay.
<Al2O3>
:)
<scanty>
elon musk is nuts.
<Al2O3>
yah, how we are going to Mars, ya know, where all things problematic with humanity will all of a sudden not exist :)
<scanty>
never going to happen.
<Al2O3>
hehehehe, ya, well so be it.
<Al2O3>
might happen, might not, but I have alway said… solve problems here, then contaminate.
<AlienSoldier>
I ca't log in paypal with any haiku browser
<AlienSoldier>
*can't
<Al2O3>
not sure how money is going to come to Haiku if you can't use Haiku to donate money :)
<Al2O3>
lol, pretty funny catch 42
<Al2O3>
anyway, I'll get some dough to the man.
<Al2O3>
wont' be now.
<AlienSoldier>
perhaps with next haikuwebkit, i wait to see a build with it in a few hour
<Al2O3>
that would be great, its not haiku per se, its my osx browsers from '09-'12
<Al2O3>
:)
<Al2O3>
but if you can't do it with haiku as well, that seems kinda silly funny messed up.
<Al2O3>
hopefully that will be solved in the future.
<Al2O3>
or it will sort itself out anyway/eitherway
<scanty>
having a proper browser is another killer for haiku for me.
<coolcoder613_mac>
(NCSA Mosiac *is* from 1993...)
<scanty>
wow, that is old.
<scanty>
i dont' even think i had internet in 1993
<AlienSoldier>
me neither i think i started in 94
<scanty>
96 for me, iirc.
<scanty>
and it was AOL
<Al2O3>
I had 'internet' before it was the 'web'
<Al2O3>
dial up in the mid 70s
<Al2O3>
and dialup BBS in the late 70s to mid 80s, and then internet.
<scanty>
cool
<scanty>
i think we got our first cable modem in '98
<Al2O3>
that sounds about right.
<Al2O3>
I was on 32bis or 34bis from the late 80s or early 90s to about 98
<Al2O3>
then cable.
<Al2O3>
in the meantime I had ISP channelized T1, as I ran some ISPs for a while.
<x512[m]>
coolcoder613_mac: Isn't original Motif already open sourced?
<scanty>
how fast is T1?
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<coolcoder613_mac>
x512[m]: OpenMotif *is* the open-sourced version of the original motif
<coolcoder613_mac>
before it was open-sourced there was lesstif
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<Skipp_OSX>
x512 you gotta review my live updating bug fix, it's like we discussed before, fixing the problems not fixed by your test program. Only now your other BMenu patch has been applied so BMenu behaves itself and there are no no locking workarounds or any of that needed.
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<Al2O3>
scanty: ~1.5Mbps
<Al2O3>
we used them on the dial up side for channelized, we could get as I recall 24 phone lines and rollover associated with it.
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<Al2O3>
rural areas still have fractional frame relay, T1s, and other methods to deal with dial up
<Al2O3>
however, they are not commonly used much if any more. Dslams as I recall took over mostly, and that is about when I exited the ISP world.
<coolcoder613_mac>
On macOS, it's called getting things to compile and not considered very interesting. On Haiku...
<coolcoder613_mac>
It's called porting and sounds impressive :)
<coolcoder613_mac>
(And is more fun)
<Begasus>
You gotta love a chalenge once in while aside from the default (updating) tasks :)
<coolcoder613_mac>
BTW, I finally managed to get serenityos working in a VM on my mac
<Begasus>
Hence I'm fidling a bit in KDE atm
<Begasus>
nice :)
<Begasus>
biab ... dogs :)
<coolcoder613_mac>
I wanted to try port NCSA Mosiac, but no X and no Motif
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<PulkoMandy>
NetSurf developers have problems with ca_root_certificates being too out of date, anyone has time to look into it? Indeed it's been a year since we last updated it :/
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<coolcoder613>
I'm getting /boot/home/Code/dillo-plus/dpi/bookmarks.c:1772:(.text.startup+0x101): undefined reference to `accept'
<coolcoder613>
where would that be defined?
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<PulkoMandy>
in -lnetwork (libnetwork)
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<tmtfx_>
I'm still crashing my head on that argvreceived... @.@ I'm moving on solving other modules ^^'
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<Begasus>
coolcoder613_mac, is it any good? I see latest version dates from 2015
<Begasus>
put your teeth in it tmtfx_ :)
<coolcoder613_mac>
I used dillo-plus
<Begasus>
so far only found dillo and dillong :)
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<coolcoder613_mac>
google it
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<Begasus>
this bugger won't take -lnetwork for the reference ...
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<coolcoder613>
have to put it in $COMPILE
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<Begasus>
PulkoMandy, the ca_root_certificates need to be updated for browsers like NetSurf? (seeing issues with this dillo thing also)
<PulkoMandy>
all browsers rely on it, I think
<PulkoMandy>
we should update it every 6 months or so to avoid any problems, but we keep forgetting about it
<Begasus>
I can open youtube/the forum with Falkon/Web+ without a message
<Begasus>
k, let me check it out, got something that gives me the error
<PulkoMandy>
not all websites will instantly stop working, each certificate in the package has its own expiration date, but the shortest ones only live for a year
<PulkoMandy>
so they're starting to expire now and it will keep getting worse until we update the package
<Begasus>
23-08-22 seem to be the latest
<Begasus>
Couldn't reach any trusted root certificate from supplied certificate. The issuer of the certificate was:
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 9bc1ff61eb83 - Tracker: Allow Get info without selection in File menu
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<waddlesplash>
PulkoMandy: talking to mmlr. builder not crashed:
<waddlesplash>
"same as last time, the perl generator scripts in an endless loop"
<waddlesplash>
I think he said it appeared to be an issue in perl itself
<waddlesplash>
maybe you could try and reproduce?
<PulkoMandy>
I build webkit several dozen times while working on this new version, without any problems
<waddlesplash>
on 32-bit?
<waddlesplash>
the issue doesn't seem to happen on 64-bit
<PulkoMandy>
I guess I can try, but my 32 bit system is old and slow now :)
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<Begasus>
how big is that source PulkoMandy? ;)
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<Begasus>
scons update on 64bit still good so far :)
<Begasus>
no one ever thought about upstreaming the patches?
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<jmairboeck>
PulkoMandy, waddlesplash: have you tried switching the perl used in webkit to perl_x86? (i.e. with $secondaryArchSuffix)? Does that help maybe?
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<Begasus>
Getting crashes also with updated haikuwebkit and Web+, issue created
<Begasus>
for now closing down, cu peeps!
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<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 3634f142352a - docs/develop/ide: A quick guide for haiku code completion
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<Anarchos>
how comes that Debugger is able to show me a source file, but there is no possibility to put breakpoints in the margin ?
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<R2AIV>
Hi! I try to port TCP/IP application from Linux to Haiku. It compiles well, but ld tells me about symbols for functions like 'socket', 'bind' and 'listen' not found. I need link some library but i don;t know that library i need to link. Help please!
<Anarchos>
R2AIV you must link with '-lnetwork' flag
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<coolcoder613_32>
Good morning
<Anarchos>
R2AIV nm /system/lib/libnetwork.so |grep socket ===> 000000000000b110 T socket T means 'defined here'