<scanty>
i tried every oftc server listen on their website and each one does the same thing.
<Habbie>
scanty, 6667
<scanty>
Habbie, which server
<Habbie>
your error said irc.oftc.net
<scanty>
ah
<scanty>
Connection refused.
<scanty>
i did a "telnet irc.oftc.net"
<scanty>
hrm did a telnet irc.oftc.net 6667 and it can login
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<Habbie>
and an irc client? irssi, weechat
<scanty>
hexchat
<Habbie>
i mean, try one on the shell
<scanty>
ok
<scanty>
irssi works from the shell
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* coolcoder613_mac
uses irssi
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<scanty>
well, i have no idea what the problem is.
<scanty>
i guess i'll do without.
<Habbie>
the core problem sounds like "psybnc error reporting is not great"
<Habbie>
but i'm not sure
<scanty>
telnet worked, irssi worked.
<phschafft>
Habbie++
<scanty>
something maybe wrong with hexchat
<scanty>
maybe there's a new version... hmmm
<Habbie>
if i have to guess, not a hexchat problem (but i'm not sure of anything here)
<Habbie>
you could try a different client?
<scanty>
i'll work on it another time, no patience right now.
<scanty>
thanks for the tips
<Habbie>
you're welcome
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<scanty>
well, i don't know what i did, but i fixed my psybnc problems
<scanty>
actually i know what i did.
* coolcoder613_mac
is trying to run risc os on his raspi
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<coolcoder613_mac>
I did the SD card
<coolcoder613_mac>
i booted it
<coolcoder613_mac>
and now it is in on the * prompt
<coolcoder613_mac>
How can I get to a desktop?
<scanty>
ask google?
<scanty>
or one of the AIs
<Al2O3>
scanty: howdie
<scanty>
hey
<Al2O3>
how was xmas?
<Al2O3>
family, time off, reading, sleeping long hours?
<Al2O3>
I did :) read nearly 2 books, what a time.
<scanty>
i didn't really do too much. lots of sleeping, and eating.
<scanty>
and reading
<scanty>
what did you read?
<Al2O3>
most of two books, about history of mead, and wine making.
<scanty>
cool
<Al2O3>
I get about 3/4 through a book and feel its already done by then, so I sadly don't feel much accomplished when reading, other than reading. Some folks like to finish. I seldom do.
<Al2O3>
good to hear you slept and ate. That is a good holiday :)
<Al2O3>
battery rechart
<Al2O3>
s/art/arge
<scanty>
indeed, lots of mental health days, too :-)
<Al2O3>
good
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<scanty>
cleaned up the 6502 stuff source tree, going to write the documentation (hate doing that!) and then i'll shoot it over to you when it's ready
<Al2O3>
whenever its done much anticipated. When you get motivated, it will happen. And then done :)
<Al2O3>
much much appreciated you want to do it eventually.
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<Al2O3>
can't wait, look forward to it.
<scanty>
cool. you've been waiting for a while, and i appreciate that
<Al2O3>
I'm with it, can't wait!
<Al2O3>
glad you are able and willing at some point to spend the time. Documentation is important, particularly if you desire to have it in the wild without much support.
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<Kokito>
Can't login to Gmail account using Falkon or Dooble (tells me to use a supported browser). Is this a known issue?
<scanty>
Al2O3, I tried to keep things clean and easy.
<scanty>
Kokito, gmail is a PITA on haiku, unfortunately.
<Kokito>
I can tell! ;)
<Kokito>
I used to be able to login to my Google accounts until recently using any of the browsers available in Haiku (Web+, Dooble, Falkon). Now, only Web+ works.
<scanty>
afaik it's a problem with oauth2
<scanty>
or lack thereof
<Kokito>
I see
<augiedoggie>
did you try epiphany/gnome web?
<Kokito>
I will
<Kokito>
Updating the system now, so will try later. Thanks for the tip!
<augiedoggie>
i haven't tried so i'm not sure if it will work or not
<Kokito>
The weird thing is that it used to work a week ago.
<Kokito>
OK, I had changed the user agent in Dooble to be able to use Whatsapp web. I reset the user agent, and now I can login to the Google account.
<Kokito>
Reboot
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<scanty>
hrm, installing epiphany seems to have stopped near the end.
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<Begasus>
g'morning peeps
<coolcoder613_mac>
Hello Begasus
<Begasus>
Hello coolcoder613_mac
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<Begasus>
x512[m] awake? :)
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<augiedoggie>
the posix directory is in the standard include list, you should only need fcntl.h
<Begasus>
PR updated x512[m]
<Begasus>
make sure you keep local copies around :)
<x512[m]>
Begasus: PictureView can open only flattened BPicture files.
<x512[m]>
And with file associations, not command line.
<Begasus>
ok, thanks for pointing out, just wanted to do a quick check here
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<Begasus>
can't build "Users" in that loop though, it somehow bails out with undefined references when building inside ../objects
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<win8linux[m]>
nephele: Not sure if it was you, but do you recall what apps on Haiku work with Wacom tablets?
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<Begasus>
k, think I got it now :)
<Begasus>
not sure if the lines between pushd and popd should ident?
<Begasus>
zdykstra, do you haikuports setup there? maybe you could have a look? ;)
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<zdykstra>
I don't have haikuports setup anywhere right now - but I'm happy to cheer from the sidelines :)
<zdykstra>
go go Begasus, you're our man, if you can't do it, no one else can!
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<Begasus>
running on 64bit zdykstra?
<zdykstra>
yup
<Begasus>
could push the hpkg to checkout (and remove after)
<zdykstra>
I don't have time today, unfortunately. I have house guests coming over shortly, and my wife is in full-on panic mode that we haven't Cleaned Enough
<Begasus>
only 377.7KiB, github can handle that :)
<Begasus>
k, no problem :)
<Begasus>
heh
<Begasus>
good luck there and enjoy :D
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<augiedoggie>
depends on your definition of support, it will use the vesa or framebuffer drivers
<lebrancess[m]>
can I play counterstrike 2 with it?
<augiedoggie>
lol
<lebrancess[m]>
what
<lebrancess[m]>
why lol
<augiedoggie>
haiku isn't linux/windows/mac
<lebrancess[m]>
yes
<lebrancess[m]>
c++
<augiedoggie>
there are no ports of the big games
<lebrancess[m]>
ultra fast should it be
<lebrancess[m]>
there is wine?
<augiedoggie>
eh, but no hardware 3D except some experimental stuff by x512[m]
<lebrancess[m]>
is it hard to install it
<lebrancess[m]>
?
<augiedoggie>
as long as you have supported hardware then Haiku is pretty easy to install
<lebrancess[m]>
nono I mean the experimental stuff :D
<lebrancess[m]>
I would dump arch to garbague if you can help me setting it up in ~20 min
<lebrancess[m]>
I have to study today too, so I need it up rn
<augiedoggie>
the last i heard x512[m] had put the amd 3D stuff on hold while he works on nvidia drivers
<augiedoggie>
i'm not sure how well it works
<lebrancess[m]>
can I download it ?
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<augiedoggie>
you'd have to build it yourself
<lebrancess[m]>
so compiling?
<augiedoggie>
yes, but it's still not going to run counterstrike :P
<lebrancess[m]>
why not?
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<augiedoggie>
because the source engine has not been ported to haiku
<lebrancess[m]>
how long would that take to port it
<augiedoggie>
42 years
<lebrancess[m]>
:(
<lebrancess[m]>
why?
<augiedoggie>
why not?
<lebrancess[m]>
could I do it my self if we add ~10 min to the ~20 mmin
<lebrancess[m]>
?
<augiedoggie>
it's not going to happen
<lebrancess[m]>
why not
<lebrancess[m]>
?
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<augiedoggie>
porting something as complex as a game engine requires a huge amount of time, not 20 minues
<lebrancess[m]>
you mean the gpu driver?
<lebrancess[m]>
I mean wine would be good enough already if your experimental thing works
<augiedoggie>
i've never tried either of them on Haiku so i have no idea how well they work and it would still take longer than 20 minutes to build your own version of Haiku
<lebrancess[m]>
when I tried to compile it on debian it took me 2 min
<lebrancess[m]>
and after that my system was running 24.0.0 mesa but somewhat it has destroyed my debian in the end
<waddlesplash>
haiku uses mesa but only llvmpipe at present
<waddlesplash>
all the acceleration require hardware DRM/DRI drivers we do not have
<lebrancess[m]>
and who would have to create the drivers?
<waddlesplash>
whoever has time and knowledge to create them
<waddlesplash>
or more likely they'll have to be ported from linux
<waddlesplash>
even the BSDs do not maintain their own DRM kernel drivers, they use Linux's with various modifications or even source compatibility layer
<waddlesplash>
the kernel side of the graphics drivers are not simple, they're massively complex
<PulkoMandy>
waddlesplash: I see you asked about Wacom taolets earlier, both Wonderbrush and Krita should handle pressure sensitive input
<waddlesplash>
I did?
<waddlesplash>
where'd I ask that?
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<waddlesplash>
but I know Wonderbrush does yes
<PulkoMandy>
Ah, it wasn't you it was win8linux[m]
<PulkoMandy>
my mobile client uses a single letter from the nicknames to generate avatars, which is...not great :)
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<lebrancess[m]>
augiedoggie:
<lebrancess[m]>
can you give a time horizon till it will be ported
<lebrancess[m]>
?
<waddlesplash>
no
<waddlesplash>
because until someone's actively working on it, there's no defined time horizon
<lebrancess[m]>
and there is noone who want to do it because it is that complicated?
<waddlesplash>
there's a few people who would know how, but they/we are busy with other things :)
<lebrancess[m]>
waddlespash is there a way to pass my gpu by a virtual machine?
<lebrancess[m]>
on your os
<waddlesplash>
no
<x512[m]>
waddlesplash: Core server side 3D acceleration drivers are not that complex. You can for example do not implement implicit sync, GPU buffer paging and context switching.
<x512[m]>
Most annoying thing is a lack of documentation.
<x512[m]>
It is commonly believed that AMD GPUs have enough public documentation, but it is completely wrong.
<x512[m]>
Most open documentation is related to client side driver, not server side.
<lebrancess[m]>
if I give you documentation for amd gpus would that help? XD maybe I can ask them nicely
<x512[m]>
But there are no reason to reimplement client side GPU driver, it is already portable enough.
<x512[m]>
I suspect that documentation is under NDA. AMD employees contribute to Linux kernel amdgpu drivers. It is not really an open development process.
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<lebrancess[m]>
x512: but what if you ask them nicely to share the process
<lebrancess[m]>
I doubt they are closed like the chinese company cubot
<lebrancess[m]>
or xiaomi
<x512[m]>
lebrancess: You can try to ask about Radeon SI (GFX 6) low level GPU initialization and RLC management.
<lebrancess[m]>
why not about rx7600
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<x512[m]>
Because I have no this GPU and it looks expensive to buy just for testing.
<lebrancess[m]>
it costs only 200 dollar
<lebrancess[m]>
very cheap
<lebrancess[m]>
and if you get this running the others will run too I believe
<lebrancess[m]>
or tell me what to do I will do it as no dev and test it
<kallisti5[m]>
<x512[m]> "It is commonly believed that AMD..." <- Accurate. AMD R600 was thoroughly documented, but AMD hasn't released detailed in-depth register documentation since.
<kallisti5[m]>
There's documentation for Southern Islands, but it's pretty high level GCN stuff
<kallisti5[m]>
The reason we really support R600 stuff was I had the linux drivers to examine, as well as register documentation. Even being a novice with GPU stuff, I could cobble together modesetting for those cards.
<kallisti5[m]>
AtomBIOS helped a lot too... In theory our current drivers should support the latest and greatest due to AtomBIOS... but there's a lot of "if generation X, look for this encoder... if Generation Y, look for this Encoder" leaking out into the drivers.
<kallisti5[m]>
which means AtomBIOS only gets us so far. We really just need a drm compat layer like BSD. It requires too many person hours to try and write our own with such a small team.
<kallisti5[m]>
Thanks for coming to my TED talk
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<x512[m]>
kallisti5: There is also an option to debug Linux andgpu driver to get a trace of MMIO register read/write during initialization.
<kallisti5[m]>
Yup. The issue there is I'm getting older and dumber lol. With limited resources I could "make it work" being spoon fed registers and stuff on R600 while looking at the linux drivers
<kallisti5[m]>
however, linux split radeon and amdgpu
<kallisti5[m]>
while our common driver is used for all radeon cards
<lebrancess[m]>
amdgpu is for trash kallisti5
<lebrancess[m]>
radeon
<kallisti5[m]>
thus we gotta start decoding old vs new within one codebase
<lebrancess[m]>
I mean radv is the thing you need
<kallisti5[m]>
also, the system for identification changed... R600 and friends used the DCE version strongly for generation mapping
<kallisti5[m]>
AMD moved away from that and started using "ranges of card generation codenames"
<x512[m]>
andgpu vs radeon have some obscure differences like 1 byte VS 4 byte step in MMIO register definitions.
<kallisti5[m]>
x512: that might be what's breaking newer generation cards tbh 😆 I didn't know about that
<x512[m]>
For now bringing Nvidia Turing+ support seems much simpler.
<x512[m]>
Server side driver is portable and just works.
<kallisti5[m]>
lol. It's always going to be us chasing GPU makers. It's why i've pretty much given up maintaining our own modesetting drivers
<lebrancess[m]>
x512: if someone would use nvidia :P
<kallisti5[m]>
we already need to chase things like webkit
<lebrancess[m]>
only windows user use nvidia
<x512[m]>
Work need to be done is to make userland server host for it and connect it to NVK driver.
<lebrancess[m]>
linux user use amd if you want traffic on haifu
<kallisti5[m]>
lebrancess: true.. I don't have a single Nvidia card in my house at the moment
<kallisti5[m]>
x512: btw... latest mesa libglvnd is still kinda messed up
<x512[m]>
Haiku ❤️ Nvidia
<x512[m]>
Why not.
<x512[m]>
Unlike Linux.
<lebrancess[m]>
dump nvidia :P
<kallisti5[m]>
x512: I dislike nvidia lol... but I think the times of them being binary blob idiots might be slowing
<x512[m]>
Dump Linux :P
<kallisti5[m]>
x512: lol. I'd love to just daily use haiku
<kallisti5[m]>
x512: it's the browser that breaks my streak... every time
<kallisti5[m]>
I can even vpn now thanks to waddlesplash
<waddlesplash>
kallisti5[m]: tried falkon?
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<kallisti5[m]>
sound works... my monitors 🥴 kinda work
<x512[m]>
I believe that Nvidia Linux problem is a Linux side fault.
<kallisti5[m]>
waddlesplash: yeah... it's better to be honest... but still crashy
<waddlesplash>
even after korli fixed stuff? ok
<kallisti5[m]>
lots of hung qtwebengine threads
<waddlesplash>
hung on what?
<lebrancess[m]>
x512: no it is not new nvidia works good on linux
<lebrancess[m]>
since they do open sauce drivers all good
<kallisti5[m]>
waddlesplash: tabs crash occasionally due to qtwebrendeinrg.. whatever
<kallisti5[m]>
it's not bad though.. just a bit crashy. Also had some "cpu eating" bugs using it
<x512[m]>
For example currently Nvidia is fundamentally incompatible with Wayland because of lack of explicit sync support in Wayland.
<kallisti5[m]>
wa
<kallisti5[m]>
waddlesplash: also, i saw you mention tcp stalls? Are we having some network issue there in our stack?
<x512[m]>
Implicit sync is terribly obsolete and no serious OS use it anymore.
<waddlesplash>
kallisti5[m]: oh just the same old one lol
<lebrancess[m]>
is there a way to combine 2 relations without making the crossproduct?
<waddlesplash>
this isn't the place to ask about random SQL queries
<lebrancess[m]>
ah sorry thought you have time :D
<lebrancess[m]>
is there haiku offtopic?
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<waddlesplash>
yes, #haiku-offtopic
<waddlesplash>
but not very used
<x512[m]>
Are John Scipione present here?
<waddlesplash>
Skipp_OSX
<x512[m]>
Skipp_OSX: New list view mouse tracking logic is wrong. Selected item highlight should not change if mouse tracking is started outside of list view contents (user clicked outside and then moved cursor inside of list view while keeping mouse button pressed).
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah I see that ok
<Skipp_OSX>
I wasn't considering the clicked outside the view and then moved mouse pointer inside view.
<x512[m]>
It is needed to check that mouse button was pressed inside of list view.
<x512[m]>
And properly unset flag when mouse button is released, even if released outside list view.
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah ok, I'll have to add a transit switch in mouse down to see, I understand.
<Skipp_OSX>
That is pretty easily fixable, but I'm struggling with the following case: https://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/bebook/BListView.html#BListView_InitiateDrag "... derived classes typically permit users to drag items only if they're already selected (if wasSelected is true). In other words, it takes two mouse-down events to drag an item—one to select it and one to begin dragging it."
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<Skipp_OSX>
BeOS assumed selection on mouse down, but because we're selecting on mouse down, this feature is now not working as it should. I should have pushed back more on this. I know you want the responsiveness of selecting on mouse down, but it is not how BeOS auto-scroll feature was designed and now I need to figure out how to eat the click so you can drag a selection without unselecting it.
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 295124473f3f - tcp_shell: Fix build and revive.
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 4629bc0cc7cb - ffmpeg: stream cur_dts is not publicly available anymore
<Skipp_OSX>
BeOS does not select on mouse down
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<HaikuUser>
Any IDE within Haiku support ctags or something like it?
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<Skipp_OSX>
Genio is probably your best bet
<HaikuUser>
will give it a try. thanks
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<lebrancess[m]>
have you already worked on amd rx7600 driver
<lebrancess[m]>
?
<lebrancess[m]>
I wait
<lebrancess[m]>
:D
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<lebrancess[m]>
I have a nice Idea for haiku, ultimatum: finished AMD driver till Monday no free time, only working no new Year party. If you can do it congratulations from my side, otherwise you have to surrender on haiku. :) does that sound like a nice ultimatum ?🤣
<Habbie>
no
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<lebrancess[m]>
Habbie: Are you all rich or how can you afford building on haiku
<lebrancess[m]>
😅
<lebrancess[m]>
I can't even afford paying my studying bills in Germany
<lebrancess[m]>
Ah this is highly offtopic I will stop