<moparisthebest>
Games are still made with SDL and OpenGL and they have software renderers
<moparisthebest>
Actually being playable though is different from "technically runs"
<AlienSoldier>
is there a terminal shortcut to go back to the start of a long character word and or a way to place the terminal cursor where we want with the mouse to be saved from having to hold the back arrow for 10 seconds?
<AlienSoldier>
i mean, inside the terminal
<coolcoder613>
erysdren: Half-Life had software rendering
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<ermo[m]>
<AlienSoldier> "i mean, inside the terminal" <- Depends on your command-line shell. Bash w/ readline supports jumping back and forth between words iirc
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<ermo[m]>
@AlienSoldier: On PC keyboards, Alt is M(eta) and the Windows key is Super.
<ermo[m]>
It is a very common abbreviation in the UNIX (and hence GNU) terminal-rralted world.
<ermo[m]>
*related
<AlienSoldier>
ermo[m] seem M is not implemented alt-f for exemple is used for the search gui panel instead of going foward 1 word and alt-b do nothing instead of going backward one word.
<bjorkintosh>
AlienSoldier: do C-a
<bjorkintosh>
to get to the beginning. and then search with alt f
<OscarL>
phschafft: except for the heat-wave... all good. Hope everyting's fine on your end :-)
<OscarL>
separate packages for different level of optimization of bytecode... seems correct, but overkill :-D
<phschafft>
there was a lioness next to me while I was sleeping, so very good. just that I needed to get up :(
<Begasus[m]>
morning OscarL phschafft
<Begasus[m]>
good one OscarL (Dutch morning) :)
<OscarL>
(back to my .pyc rant:) I don't think using the "PYTHONOPTIMIZE" env-var "is popular enough", so in Haiku we might want to consider just NOT packaging the "*-opt-*.pyc" files at all.
* Begasus[m]
has no clue about env-var stuff
<OscarL>
just the usual "export SOME_VAR_USED_BY_SOME_PROGRAM=foobar"
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<OscarL>
(would need to re-build ALL python packages without `*-opt-*.pyc` to properly compare the file size difference that would make)
<Begasus[m]>
ah :)
<OscarL>
our main Python packages (the ones with /bin/python3.xx) include BOTH opt-1 and opt-2 .pyc files. Could be quite some saving there if we only packaged the regular .pyc files.
<OscarL>
I might open an issue about this, and see what others think about it.
<OscarL>
(once I have some file sizes to compare :-D)
<Begasus[m]>
should check how plasmatube reacts without those requirements for yt_dlp
<Begasus[m]>
hmm only "requests" in there
<OscarL>
the other packages humdinger mentions are dependencies of requests itself.
<Begasus[m]>
guessed so :)
<OscarL>
I haven't been able to use yt_dlp to download from YT for a while down here (even on Windows), so can only do very basic tests.
<Begasus[m]>
never ran it from Terminal, so same here, just launching the apps from Terminal to spot issues
<OscarL>
might be interesting to see what's the difference in startup time between "standalone" yt_dlp and the one from my PR.
<OscarL>
something like "time yt-dlp --version"
<Begasus[m]>
mediainfo app build with the new wxgtk update :)
<Begasus[m]>
still no go on kicad
<OscarL>
for the "new yt_dlp": 0.6s on VMware, Host CPU set to Performance. 1.2s in "Eco mode" (after running it a couple times)
<Begasus[m]>
biab
<OscarL>
for the "standalone" yt-dlp version: 1.6s with CPU in "Performance mode", 3.6s with CPU in "echo mode" :-D
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<OscarL>
lol, "yt-dlp -F <some youtube video>" works on Haiku, but fails on windows :-D
<Begasus[m]>
++1 for Haiku :D
<OscarL>
(with the error on the windows side being: youtube wants me to sign in to confirm I'm not a bot)
<OscarL>
Mmm, 26.41 MB for the 256x144 video, plus ~28 MB for the audio... I might actually watch (in a mini-window) this 1 hour long video :-D
<OscarL>
55 MB final size once merged. not bad.
<Begasus[m]>
for unicorn?
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<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: for the downloaded video :-P
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<OscarL>
unicorn is about 6 MB + 23.6 MB for the debug_info.
<OscarL>
Mmm, looks like I would still need to patch the python bindings on the new version. Sigh.
<OscarL>
nothing on-tree really uses unicorn at all, so I could just leave it be, but it annoys me that it will still show up on the list of things requiring Python 3.9 :-D
<Begasus[m]>
getting under skin ? :P
<OscarL>
yeah, want to get rid of it. Will have to wait till Oct 2025 (EOL date) to really kill it (or korli might yell at me :-D)
<Begasus[m]>
heh
<OscarL>
should post something on the forum, as in: "Python 3.9 is going away in October 2025, move your stuff to something newer!" :-D
<nekobot>
• threedeyes (1cd5004e): audacity: fix build for x86 arch (disable simd)
<dodo75>
Is there a way to config mouse settings in Input preferences? It seems that after each reboot/update I have to manually change mouse acceleration setings.
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<dodo75>
hm even worse.. it seems the mouse acceleration settings is not peristent.
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<waddlesplash>
dodo75: are you on a nightly? I think some things may have been fixed since the beta here
<dodo75>
waddlesplash I run softwareupdate frequently ... its my daily kata... :)
<waddlesplash>
ok. I guess there's still bugs here, probably worth opening a ticket then
<dodo75>
waddlesplash no worries.. I will try a hard-reset as well...
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<ilzu[m]>
Does anyone online know how to build webkit2? On the webkit2 branch the build script complains of some missing files. I'd like to have a test build to test my application which uses WebView with Webkit2 and perhaps try to work on it a bit too. zardshard? Nephele?
<PulkoMandy>
ilzu[m]: Did you follow the readme from the webkit2 branch as well? It's diffeient from the one in the main branch
<PulkoMandy>
Different*
<PulkoMandy>
And what does it complain about exactly?
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<ilzu[m]>
PulkoMandy: I did follow the readme from the webkit2 branch. There seems to be two of them, more or less identical. The build script complains of not finding file haiku/WebCoreSupport/WebResourceLoadScheduler.cpp when configuring the build. The missing file seems to be found in the Source/WebKitLegacyWebCoreSupport directory., but not sure if it is changed with webkit2.
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<zardshard>
Unfortunately I don't have the time to help right now. If you need help tomorrow, feel free to ask me. I should hopefully be available around this time.
<zardshard>
Gotta train new WebKit2 developers ;-)
<ilzu[m]>
zardshard: I'll try to be here tomorrow to ask then.
<ilzu[m]>
Thanks
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<zardshard>
Alright, let's hope I remember :)
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<PulkoMandy>
Do ycu mean there are two readmes or two webkit2 branches?
<PulkoMandy>
I may have pushed thingsin the wrong place again
<kallisti5[m]>
Pulkomandy: you have any thoughts about moving non-gerrit things to codeberg that nephele mentioned?
<kallisti5[m]>
My biggest concern is how young it is. I think back to osdrawer and that worries me a little 😅
<ilzu[m]>
PulkoMandy: two readmes in Webkit2 branch. Readme.md and Readme.markdown, they seem pretty much identical on quick glance.
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<PulkoMandy>
kallisti5[m]: I would prefer everything on Gerrit but I feel a bit alone on this. Given uhe choice of Github and something opensource, I would prefer the opensource option of course :)
<PulkoMandy>
And as far as I know osdrawer was a Haiku specific thing. BerliOS would be more similar to this and we knew for years that it wasn't doing well
<PulkoMandy>
(Some people here may remember the Haiku SVN repo being read-only on weekends when the disk was full and we had to wait for whoever was managing it getting to work on monday)
<x512[m]>
I prefer GitHub because it is most robust solution and it is convenient to have everything in one place.
<x512[m]>
It it sad if everyone will go to different random Git services.
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<nipos>
Oh no, that discussion again...
<erysdren>
:P
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<nipos>
+2 for self-hosted that we control (Gerrit) from my side,+1 for anything else that's at least open-source and -2 for M$ crap from my side, but I lost hope that anything is ever going to change.
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<erysdren>
yeah ive been slowly moving all my github repos to my self-hosted forgejo
<erysdren>
because i don't want my stuff controlled by M$
<nipos>
After wasting time multiple times already trying to fix problems someone else told me, hoping that they will deal with upstreaming to M$ and then they didn't, I just don't invest time into anything outside of Gerrit anymore
<x512[m]>
PulkoMandy: And both Osdrawer and BerliOS died. Microsoft have enough money and resources so it will never happen with GitHub.
<nipos>
Therefore, selfhosting is the best solution. But having to change the Git hoster doesn't mean the end of the world. The work isn't lost, it only means some links need to be changed. Anyway, the Codeberg org is rather big and they have money savings to keep them running a few years
<x512[m]>
I do not want to register on a lot of random services to submit patches.
<nipos>
And I do not want to register once with M$ or any other US big tech
<x512[m]>
Selfhosting means persistent outages and risk of getting all data lost.
<nipos>
Sorry, that's just nonsense
<PulkoMandy>
x512[m]: Remember Google hroject hosting? It died too. Even if Google had the money to keep it running. Since then I do not trust large companies for these things
<nipos>
The Haiku webservices barely have any outage and assuming that they do proper backups, the risk of data loss isn't any bigger than on a centralized walled-garden. Also, every single "git clone" anyone has can act as a backup
<PulkoMandy>
They will not necessarily do a worse job, but they will not necessarily do better
<x512[m]>
PulkoMandy: A lot of infrastructure depends on GitHub, it can't easily die. Google project hosting was not that successful at beginning.
<PulkoMandy>
It can die. All it takes is Microsoft deciding that it costs too much money. Google project hosting was very succesful, it killed sourceforge, and then github killed it
<x512[m]>
Sourceforge is still alive.
<nipos>
Actually, Sourceforge still exists
<nipos>
The software powering it is open-source btw, so better than M$ Github. Ads were a bit annoying in the past when it was still popular, but adblockers are a thing now
<x512[m]>
But Sourceforge has terrible interfaces and a lot of ads.
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<nipos>
I haven't had any other source hosting website react as slow and bring my whole browser down as much as M$ Github. The interface of Sourceforge isn't exactly great, but it reacts rather fast and yeah, Adblockers are a thing
<x512[m]>
Why even care that Git hosting service is open-source or not? Git already provide enough mechanisms to protect against unintended malicious changes. So Git repos can be stored even on untrusted hostings.
<nipos>
I care because it allows M$ to decide who is allowed to contribute and who isn't. And it allows M$ to set the rules. Also, the website is just awfully bloated and slow, and it's only getting worse.
<nipos>
Back when I started using it, it was fast and clean. It took M$ longer to ruin it than it usually takes with stuff they buy, but eventually they did
<x512[m]>
I never experienced such problems as GitHub itself rejected my contributions. It is controlled by project owners, not GitHub. Unless you are committing some pirated illegal code, you are fine.
<x512[m]>
I hope that HaikuArchives will stay on GitHub.
<janking>
hi my sound on BeAIM dosent work can i do something about it nipos?
<nipos>
I don't speak about individual contributions but accounts. They set the rules. Don't care about stupid 2FA? You're out. Live in the wrong country? No luck. Wrongly detected as Bot and locked out? Good luck fighting with their support.
<nipos>
HaikuArchives is the thing that matters the least probably. Everyone can just put their maintained version wherever they want, like I did with BeAIM
<x512[m]>
E-Mail + simple Python script are enough for GitHub account registration.
<nipos>
janking: Sound isn't yet supported. The play_sound function isn't yet implemented in Haiku and my pull request to implement that (which is probably not the best quality) is still uncommented.
<|cos|>
Wouldn't something like radicle be the interesting thing to throw into this discussion, if the discussion is to be had at all?
<janking>
ok thanks nipos
<nipos>
Yeah, Radicle is also an interesting thing. And also that new one based on Bluesky that was recently launched (closed beta I think, but it has potential)
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