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<zeroability[m]>
More info to add to my issue with booting the live disk. I attempted to boot with the USB 3 port and got several xhci timeouts, block device not ready's, and failures to read and install packages. I inserted the USB stick into a 2.0 port and booted using UEFI. It was able to boot but the mouse would not work. I was able to navigate the desktop icons with the keyboard and Alt + F4 to close the open file manager. That is where my testing
<zeroability[m]>
ends, unfortunately. The motherboard is an ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer 3.1 if that helps. It seems like a driver/hardware support issue.
<zeroability[m]>
Keyboard and mouse are both in USB 2 ports.
<zeroability[m]>
I guess the mouse it technically in a port specific for a mouse and that is most likely why it doesn't work.
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<zeroability[m]>
Scratch that. It doesn't work in a different port. Hehe
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<rennj>
perhaps a usb hub and make sure it on usb2.0 port, keyboard,mouse and boot flash
<rennj>
usb2,0 hub heh
<rennj>
check the manual for motherboard probably tells you what usb ports are
<zeroability[m]>
The blue ports are 3.1. Black is 1.1/2.0. The mouse port is supposed to be 1.1.
<rennj>
the mouse port?
<rennj>
heh
<zeroability[m]>
It's a Razer Deathadder Chroma.
<rennj>
usb hid device. human input device
<zeroability[m]>
Yeah there is a tuning utility for polling in Windows. It just works in Linux so I haven't bothered to change it.
<Begasus>
for fpc gcc was/is used that is easy to look up
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<nephele[x]>
countryboy: qt is just two letters, but prononets think you pronounce it "cute" :P
<jessicah>
that looks broken
<Begasus>
patches welcome! jessicah :)
<jessicah>
there's a function that sets up variables, can't recall the name
<jessicah>
I'll look tomorrow, bedtime now
<countryboy>
nephele[x]: ok, thanks ...
<Begasus>
thanks upfront jessicah !
<Begasus>
will push the changes for libqt5pas
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<nephele[x]>
bah, can't install from my normal system to the ubs either... probably because it wants to find all my files to include them :(
<nephele[x]>
there should be an "easy" way to install haiku to a thumb drive
<Anarchos>
nephele[x]: i used to dd images directly to usb key without troubles
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<nephele[x]>
why are you using dd...?
<Begasus>
brake ... bbl
<nephele[x]>
In any case, that is kind of pointless, got a 128GB thumb drive for life usage, don't want to put a partition table on it that limits the size to 700MiB
<Anarchos>
i am sure to copy every needed bit this way...
<nephele[x]>
just use cp
<Anarchos>
cp haiku images? what about boot sectors?
<nephele[x]>
what about them?
<Anarchos>
you need them to boot!!
<nephele[x]>
yes, so?
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<Anarchos>
nephele[x]: dd copies them, but cp doesn't !
<nephele[x]>
how did you reach that conclusion?
<nephele[x]>
cp worls just fine to copy images to drives
<Anarchos>
i use dd to install them, not just copy files....
<nephele[x]>
What do you think dd does?
<nephele[x]>
in posix, or unix, devices are represented as files, and you can use cp to copy files
<nephele[x]>
dd is excelent, if you need very precise things... like "copy exactly 512 bits to position +244 in a file
<nephele[x]>
or if you want to backup to tapes
<nephele[x]>
but if you "just" want to copy something from a to b cp is much easier to use and harder to get wrong since it's syntax works like most other tools on the commandline
<Anarchos>
nephele[x]: anyway, no need for me to discuss further topics you don't understand fully.
<nephele[x]>
Just try it if you do not believe me.
<kallisti5[m]>
nephele[x]: I'm pretty sure Anarchos is writing our image to usb media.. dd is what you use for that
<nephele[x]>
cp wprks better, there is no reason to use dd
<kallisti5[m]>
err.. no you use dd
<nephele[x]>
again, there is no reason to use dd
<kallisti5[m]>
i mean.. it's faster
<nephele[x]>
some unices have the implicit assumption that dd uses sync automatically, that may be a valid reason, but i don't think it is for us
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<kallisti5[m]>
since you can specify the block size to fit the target device
<Coldfirex>
Howdy
<nephele[x]>
no, cp is faster, the OS can decide the blocksize automatically, dd requires the user to set it, and the user has no clue what the correct size is
<kallisti5[m]>
meh. Never heard of anyone using cp to write images before
<nephele[x]>
the OS can atleast make a good guess, with dd users are basically just guessing, in which case you might aswell let the OS guess since it has more info
<jeremyf[m]>
We don't use the same dd it seems
<Coldfirex>
I just updated RC0 with the latest updates, rebooted, and got a KDL randomly concerning the "ps2 service". I am still at the kdebug menu. What should I enter/collect for a bug report?
<nephele[x]>
try it, it will work fine
<nephele[x]>
jeremyf: the default blocksize of dd is ridicilously small, also on linux
<nephele[x]>
the default block size for cp on linux has been increased over the years for example
<jeremyf[m]>
I'll try, nephele
<nephele[x]>
haiku has an additional problem that you need a thumb drive to be "activated" as in powered on but not mounted, and the UI has no good way to make that happen
<nephele[x]>
but that is irrespective of using dd or cp :)
<jeremyf[m]>
But I always do "dd if=/home/<user>/Download/image.iso of=/dev/sdb status=progress"
<nephele[x]>
status?progress is a hack since linux has no SIGINFO :P
<nephele[x]>
... and neither do we :(/
<jeremyf[m]>
It's why I love you ❤️
<nephele[x]>
You can try for example to copy a file on FreeBSD and use ^Twhile it copies to get a status report
<nephele[x]>
also tells you how far it has copied, and which file it is copyine for recursive copies and such
<nephele[x]>
linux sometimes uses SIGUSR1 for a usage similar to SIGINFO, but that kills the app if it has no handelere defined which is not so nice :)
<jeremyf[m]>
You lost me...
<jeremyf[m]>
I'm way not so technically skilled
<jeremyf[m]>
😅
<jeremyf[m]>
By the way, does Haiku show touchpads as touchpad or as mouse?
<nephele[x]>
It's supposed to show as touchpad, sometimes ps/2 touchpads will show up as mice though
<jeremyf[m]>
So it's my case
<jeremyf[m]>
Grumpf
<nephele[x]>
with the new Input pref panel it will atleast make one entry for each device it recognized, with the old system you couldn't quite tell if it detected something or not
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<nephele[x]>
Well, bug report :D
<jeremyf[m]>
Yep
<nephele[x]>
Two usb keyboards and one usb mouse... hmmm, don't have and usb keyboards :3
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<countryboy>
nephele[x]: inside a laptop there are 1 usb keyboard + 1 usb mouse ... the touchpad ...
<countryboy>
nephele[x]: i also use an external keyboard ... + 1 usb ...
<nephele[x]>
countrybox: my laptop sais I have 3 keyboards, first one is in the laptop, the other two are my mouse bit it lists them as seperate devices
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<countryboy>
ah, nephele[x] : 1 mouse has been seen as usb keyboard ?
<nephele[x]>
yes, it's seen as one mouse and two keyboards
<nephele[x]>
or well, the logitech receiver is anyhow :)
<countryboy>
ah, i don't know ... ;-)
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<countryboy>
nephele[x]: i love usa keyboard ... better than italian one ...
<countryboy>
... us keyb ...
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<countryboy>
@ in us keyb is simple : shift + 2
<nephele[x]>
@ in german keyboard is q + alt-gr, and that is what i am used to by now :)
<nephele[x]>
tyüing blind on this awerty keyboard for quite some time now :P
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<countryboy>
ah, nephele[x] : fine and in italian : altgr + another key
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<Anarchos>
countryboy: in french keyboard : altgr+0
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<nephele[x]>
also, i dont know how to make the€ sign on a us keyboard :P
<countryboy>
Anarchos: in italian : altgr + o'
<nephele[x]>
in dutch the layout is similar to the US layut, there are a lot of borowed letters in dutch :)
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<countryboy>
cu
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<jeremyf[m]>
Anarchos: you are french?
<Anarchos>
jeremyf[m]: let me check....
<Anarchos>
jeremyf[m]: it seems yes :)
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<jeremyf[m]>
Ah ben bien, enchanté 😉
<nephele[x]>
you have to check? sounds belgian!
<Anarchos>
jeremyf[m]: there is a channel #haiku-fr if you prefer
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<nephele[x]>
is there some guide to making a bootable haiku usb? I failed like 5 times in a row, getting a bit frustrated, with both gpt and intel partition table it always ends in a KDL with no boot partitions found
<nephele[x]>
I'll most certainly not install windows to install chromium to install a webapp to emulate the functionality of cp
<nielx[m]>
well good luck then
<nielx[m]>
this is the only tool that has worked for me :-P
<countryboy>
choose haiku iso => choose usb pen => flash
<nephele[x]>
I can copy images just fine, it's just not the usecase I want
<countryboy>
but under linux ..
<nephele[x]>
I want to use the usb pen drive, not use it as an installl medium
<tqh>
I just dd the anyboot image to the usb device.
<nephele[x]>
cp works fine under haiku, but still not what i want, the anyboot image has a fixed gpt table that limits the size to 700MiB on the pen drive
<countryboy>
nephele[x]: install from usb to another usb
<nephele[x]>
The drive has about 117GB of storage, and i'd like to use that with a proper install, just that Installer fails to install from a diskimage registered version of the installation medium, and i don't have any other USB drive either
<nielx[m]>
Why don't you use DriveSetup to partition the usb drive?
<nephele[x]>
I I did tha?
<nielx[m]>
ah right :-)
<nielx[m]>
in that case, don't know
<tqh>
If you use EFI you should set the correct BFS partition type.
<nielx[m]>
I previously used another medium to install from
<nephele[x]>
I used the default of "Be File system" for haiku and "efi system partition" for the esp, I tried both gpt [haiku] [esp] aswell as gpt [esp] [haiku]
<nephele[x]>
esp formatted as fat32 and haiku as bfs with queries, albeit i am not booting with efi
<tqh>
order is not important with UEFI.
<nephele[x]>
For installing since the Installer did not work I have copied the files 1:1 from the installation medium to the Haiku partition
<tqh>
but finding boot partitions need to have the BFS UUID for the partitions I think.
<nephele[x]>
I am not booting with efi, the order is important in some edge case iirc
<nephele[x]>
I am "just" using a gpt table with an mbr bootloader, though potentially drivesetup does not know how to do that correctly
<countryboy>
gpt => efi
<tqh>
that seems like a bad combination, MBR and pluggable devices is not that good.
<nephele[x]>
No
<nephele[x]>
tqh: the anyboot image is exactly that, I don't see the problem conceptually
<tqh>
GPT is just a partition format, but it is part of UEFI specification.
<nephele[x]>
Yes, but GPT works just fine without EFI
<countryboy>
mbr => 4 primary
<tqh>
nephele[x], you need to mark your partitions bootable and other weird things.
<nephele[x]>
GPT patitions don't have a notion of bootable?
<tqh>
but MBR is master boot record and is read from the bootable disk.
<tqh>
Anyboot pretends to be ISO disk, which makes it special.
<nephele[x]>
MBR can be used with gpt tables too
<nephele[x]>
it's iso9660 aswell? jeez...
<tqh>
Can != easy
<nephele[x]>
maybe we should make it "Install to this USB" easy... :)
<tqh>
that's the way to have MBR's on pluggable devices.
<tqh>
my recommendation is to avoid MBR's at all cost.
<countryboy>
i ask you MBR => 16 bit
<nephele[x]>
In any case, it didn't even work with intel parition map
<nephele[x]>
tqh: This laptop has no EFI, so i guess I am stuck there? In any case a "portable" haiku usb should be able to do both
<nephele[x]>
perhaps this is an exercise to have the Installer format the device...
<tqh>
I'd just dd over, resize and format haiku partition, copy back data to it.
<nephele[x]>
How do you propose to resize the partition if the partition table specifies a smaller size?
<tqh>
any tool for handling partition tables.
<tqh>
you don't care about the contents if you copy data back.
<countryboy>
or MBR => 8 BIT = 256 primary partitions
<nephele[x]>
So... install freebsd and boot that to fix the partition table? .-.
<tqh>
Until we can resize partitions in drivesetup something like that.
<nephele[x]>
Resizing partitions is not that different from just recreating them if we don't care about the data, but i don't think i can actually make a new bigger partition if the parittion table has a smaller size
<tqh>
or just create one more haiku partition, and then install to that.
<tqh>
you get the other anyboot partitions, and the correct partition flags.
<nephele[x]>
I don't think that works,m gpt has extra blocks at the end of te partition table, which would be at about 710MB for our image
<tqh>
any tool that handles partitions handle gpt layout.
<nephele[x]>
that dosn't imply that it knows how to fix an incorect gpt layout
<nephele[x]>
It seems we have a tool called anyboot
<tqh>
Another way is to run image in vm, and map usb disk in VM, then install to it.
<countryboy>
nephele[x]: boot with linux dvd => try it and no install => start gparted
<nephele[x]>
tqh: does that work in haiku?
<countryboy>
nephele[x]: ubuntu does the trick
<countryboy>
ubuntu is veri fine ... ;-)
<nephele[x]>
I hate using ubuntu, it keeps bothering me with useless stuff
<tqh>
I do that with KVM from time to time, but I use UEFI, so no clue about MBR problems. Plug and Play before UEFI is scary.
<nephele[x]>
we don't have kvm
<nephele[x]>
=
<nephele[x]>
?
<nephele[x]>
?*
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<countryboy>
ubuntu = do you remember GOD ?
<tqh>
I use Linux as host, that was kind of my point that Haiku wasn't installed yet.
<nephele[x]>
running in qemu might make the installr on the image work anyhow, but that doesn't really explain why the usb stick with intel partition map doesn't work
<nephele[x]>
tqh; ah, i see, I have haiku installed as main OS on my laptop and desktop, only have a second disk in my desktop because of video conferences in lockdown..
<tqh>
why don't use use Installer then?
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<nephele[x]>
It's broken when using it with the install medium mounted via diskimage register
<tqh>
Setup intel partition type, make partition bootable and makebootable I think?
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<nephele[x]>
And if i try to installfrom my normal install as source it never seems to get any progress
<nephele[x]>
presumeably because it wants to copy every gitrepo aswell, and small files are quite bad IO wise .-.
<tqh>
Ah
<tqh>
Would be nice if Installer could install from net..
<nephele[x]>
Letting it partition full disks on it's own and net installs would be some nice improvements indeed
<countryboy>
ubuntu = we are what we are because we compare ourselves to others ... ;-)
<countryboy>
=> stay together ...
<nephele[x]>
qemu doesn't really work for that... it didn't manage to moutn the drive RW, and it kept interpreting mouse1 clicks as mouse2 .-.
<nephele[x]>
Installing haiku to a thumb drive shouldn't be this hard, i'll make a note to improve installer
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<rennj>
the pascal ide is working! nice
<rennj>
uses fpc on the backend i take it
<rennj>
ah version string
<Begasus>
yep fpc (didn't get it to run on 32bit so went on to check if it worked for 64bit)
<Begasus>
k, something deffenitly wrong with the 32bit fpc package I think
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<Anarchos>
Begasus: nic;e ide !
<Anarchos>
Begasus: i miss InterfaceBuilder...
<Begasus>
I'm not even going to use it, just can't seem to let it go :)
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<Anarchos>
Begasus: btw, nice name 'project lazarus' to resurect pascal :)
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<Begasus>
Roidrex set me up to it :)
<Begasus>
jessicah, if you can read this in the morning, 64bit is ok with the default install for libQt5Pas, created a script that I'm now testing for a build on x86_64
<BrunoSpr>
what is the terminal syntax to restart Haiku?
<BrunoSpr>
In Terminal
<jeremyf[m]>
shutdown -r
<jeremyf[m]>
I think
<jeremyf[m]>
(Hi)
<jeremyf[m]>
BrunoSpr: I confirm: > shutdown -r
<BrunoSpr>
Ah ok nice, why it is not only reboot? So it should read "you need to shutdown -r your system"?
<nacelle>
how restart haiku?
<nacelle>
it is! shutdown -r
<nacelle>
is it like BSD does?
<nephele[x]>
bsd has severall commands too, we are a bit of an outlier with shutdown -r only :)
<nephele[x]>
BrunoSpr: deskbar has an option named Shutdown -> Reboot system, it is more descriptive i think than implicating a specific command
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<Anarchos>
BrunoSpr: i added a reboot alias to shutdown-r in UserSetupEnvironment
<countryboy>
Anarchos: and shutdown -h ?
<BrunoSpr>
Anarchos ok but why it is not working for non Haiku user or new user? Better to use "reboot" or "restart" in Haiku Terminal?!
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<BrunoSpr>
or "you have to reboot (shutdown -r) your system?
<BrunoSpr>
easy and for some newcommer easy to understand!
<BrunoSpr>
ok in Deskbar it is only "reboot"
<Anarchos>
BrunoSpr: the alias is only there to let me type 'reboot' in Terminal ;)
<BrunoSpr>
Anarchos, yes thats good.. it should work without editing the UserSetupEnvironment
<Anarchos>
BrunoSpr: i agree, it should come as a standard command or alias
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<BrunoSpr>
I really feel misunderstood many times if I just give a pice to discuss...
<BrunoSpr>
If the user use Termainal with: pkgman full-sync the answer should be; "update your system with shutdown -r" or better reboot!
<BrunoSpr>
if the user using SoftwareUpdater it is different though... Please reboot you system would be ok
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<BrunoSpr>
It is sooo easy! But so complicated to explain?
<BrunoSpr>
I like to get Haiku to be known as easy to use!
<BrunoSpr>
If someone tells me to reboot i will try "reboot"! not shutdown -r!
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<nephele[x]>
Haiku is a GUI OS, i would usually try the UI solution first before craming out commandline tools
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<BrunoSpr>
nephele[x] yes thats a point, yes
<nephele[x]>
Anyhow, tools can detect with which "name" they are called, shutdown could be installed as reboot too and then invoke reboot automatically, it'd just need to be patched to do so
<BrunoSpr>
nephele[x], thx thats what I would like to see...
<nephele[x]>
patches welcome? or make a ticket :)
<BrunoSpr>
maybe should file a bug report (enhencement) for that
<BrunoSpr>
nephele[x], ah sorry ssure a ticket
<BrunoSpr>
yes you are right thx
<BrunoSpr>
sometimes it is good to discuss first about thoughts like this?
<BrunoSpr>
Doesnt too much tickets looks strange? though?
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<nephele[x]>
Stuff gets discussed often, it gets reviewed too after someone makes a change, and tickets are fine to discuss on aswell
<nephele[x]>
if there is a ticket atleast you can point and say "this was discussed already" :)
<nephele[x]>
It's our bugtracker anyhow, we can have as many tickets as we want :)
<BrunoSpr>
nephele[x] ah yes you are right there, I agree to use tickets instead often
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<Vidrep_64>
kallisti5, just a question. When will we be updating haiku to use the Gutenprint 5.3.4 driver package? The current one we're using is 3 years old.
<nephele[x]>
does it work :?
<Vidrep_64>
No way to test the package, because the libgutenprint lib has to be built into Haiku?
<kallisti5[m]>
has someone updated our recipe?
<Vidrep_64>
Yes, 5.34 recipe is in HaikuPorts
<nephele[x]>
vidrep_64: no non-packaged .so file?
<nephele[x]>
I am happy to test with some printers over usb... have atleast 1 i can test now
<Vidrep_64>
If you try to uninstall the existing package, pkgman wants to remove a lot of other packages
<nephele[x]>
probably because haiku.hpkg has it declared as a dep
<nephele[x]>
you might have to compile haiku with the newer version marked as a dep
<kallisti5[m]>
if a newer gutenprint recipe isn't available, a newer build pacakge won't get created
<kallisti5[m]>
tldr; update the recipe... then the build-packages will upgrade automatically when I re-run the tool
<Vidrep_64>
Currently we're using 5.3.1
<kallisti5[m]>
i ran it yesterday for haikuwebkit
<nephele[x]>
vidrep said above that it is updated
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<Vidrep_64>
If we can do the update on nightly builds, I and others can test it it on several different printers to make sure nothing is broken
<Begasus>
Vidrep_64, can't you build and install it?
<BrunoSpr>
yes we have but it could be better
<nephele[x]>
ticket :D
<BrunoSpr>
yes, lol
<BrunoSpr>
thx
<nephele[x]>
apart from accidentally removing it, i ahve no clue how well it works, i was more preocupied trying to print anime for real, and not for pdf xD
<Vidrep_64>
Begasus, the package builds, but once installed there is no way to use it.
<nephele[x]>
colorfull artstyle uses all colors, so less chance of drying up..
<Begasus>
it doesn't replace the previous one Vidrep_64 ? (didn't check there)
<nephele[x]>
It doesn't indeed
<Begasus>
ah
<BrunoSpr>
I file a ticket already
<Vidrep_64>
The new driver package contains quite a few newly supported printers and bug fixes (which one would expect after 3 years)
<Begasus>
then it's time to ask korli (but probably after beta3 comes out)
<nephele[x]>
kallisti5: can you add gutenprint9 to the hardlink repo for now so we can run a test build?
<nephele[x]>
shouldn't affect the beta since it is really a differen package :D
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<BrunoSpr>
nephele[x], you could try to print to pdf your manga and send me
<kallisti5[m]>
nephele[x]: I need to figure out why we're doing the 8 vs 9 in the first place
<kallisti5[m]>
generally minor point releases don't come with huge abi changes
<nephele[x]>
I accidentally deleted the pdf printer and don't know whow to get it back lol
<waddlesplash>
kallisti5[m]: gutenprint breaks abi a lot
<waddlesplash>
check abi laboratories for detail
<BrunoSpr>
I usually print to pdf and print it outdoors because I do not own a A3 or A2 printer at home...
<BrunoSpr>
Even color prints I print at CopyShops
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<BrunoSpr>
I would advice everyone to use a monochrome laser printer at home and print everything else online or outdoor CopyShops to get fine results and save lots of money...
<nephele[x]>
I got my printer for free :)
<BrunoSpr>
Yes the printer for free but the color you have to pay yourself
<BrunoSpr>
the printer is 50Euro here and one color is 54Euro each 4 times than... rgb and black
<PulkoMandy>
I have several free printers but everytime I need to use one, the ink is dry
<PulkoMandy>
definitely should get a laser one someday. But I just use the one at work for the 10 or so pages a year I really need to print
<BrunoSpr>
PulkoMandy, yes thats why I suggest to buy laser printer
<BrunoSpr>
they dont get dry
<nephele[x]>
I got instructed to print some color pictures every once in a while couple of years back to stop the printer from drying up
<BrunoSpr>
but they are expensive for color
<Begasus>
heading down here, g'night peeps
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<nephele[x]>
it's much cheaper to print random pictures and use some ink than it is to replace printer heads
<BrunoSpr>
print your pictures online or outdoor that way you save a lot of money!
<BrunoSpr>
My monochrome printer is now about 15years old but still working and now it works on Haiku too!
<BrunoSpr>
I just bought one "one" black cardrige since than for it! Which costs me 60Euro!
<nephele[x]>
I like how every printer that i've used is basically garbage, it's as if the industry didn't want to make working printers
<Vidrep_64>
Sometimes you just need to have a hard copy of something
<BrunoSpr>
My children print alot with it for school and for study!
<nephele[x]>
I got the printer for the Lockdown School, but the same day i got it the in-person school was brought back :D
<BrunoSpr>
Try to get a monochrome printer
<nephele[x]>
I already have a printer, and i think getting another one is wastefull, I like using hardware that was used before, it's better for the enviroment :)
<PulkoMandy>
nephele[x], the industry knows how to make good printers. But the customers don't want to pay for it
<BrunoSpr>
The time I was buiying it it was quite expensive and new (2003) 350- Euro
<BrunoSpr>
PulkoMandy, yes exact
<BrunoSpr>
good printers are expensive but worth its price
<Vidrep_64>
PulkoMandy, since you're here...do you have any idea yet why the thread for downloads keeps running even after closing the window?
<nephele[x]>
PulkoMandy: I suppose so, but then even if I have the money for a "good" printer it's so much nearly identical hard to differenciate stuff, quite hard for the normal consumer to figure out which printers could be nice...
<BrunoSpr>
and if you need profecionall printer you have to print your product outside anyway...
<nephele[x]>
Vidrep: that's fixed now, or should be
<PulkoMandy>
Vidrep_64, for the download window thread? I think the window thread is always running and the window is just hidden, not actually closed, by design
<PulkoMandy>
is it creating any problems?
<Vidrep_64>
I see someone finally added an eject function to MediaPlayer, 7 ears after I created the ticket for that enhancement :)
<Vidrep_64>
*years
<BrunoSpr>
The Beta3 will be a hit with the help of MadMax...
<Vidrep_64>
PulkoMandy, I don't think it's creating a problem, now that you've explained it as hidden by design
<BrunoSpr>
the hack for the vanishing font will be examined and the R1 will be near
<BrunoSpr>
as long as it works
<PulkoMandy>
the hack has been examined and a cleaner fix put in place in the development branch for webkit
<BrunoSpr>
PulkoMandy, sounds good, as expected, ha
<BrunoSpr>
Twitter will not open, now... but that will be fixed soon I think, not that I need it.
<Vidrep_64>
PulkoMandy, the ticket for the Download window thread issue, if you care to comment further or close as irrelevant https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/12417
<BrunoSpr>
PulkoMandy, ah... a question, why is Web+ in Haiku and not in HaikuPorts?
<PulkoMandy>
because NetPositive was in BeOS and we try to recreate BeOS
<PulkoMandy>
Vidrep_64, ah, if it prevents the browser from quitting, that's a problem
<BrunoSpr>
PulkoMandy, would it not be better to separate OS and Apps?
<PulkoMandy>
it's a separate package file already and you can uninstall it if you want
<PulkoMandy>
I see no reason to move the sourcecode elsewhere and it won't change anything for users
<BrunoSpr>
But problems in Web+ could go to realese problems if web+ does not work
<BrunoSpr>
Anyway, I am happy to have such a great Beta 3 realease
<BrunoSpr>
release?
<nephele[x]>
It already does, it doesn't matter if it's in haikuports... people will complain anyway, it's the only really maintained webrowser we have, and basically the only option
<BrunoSpr>
nephele[x], I do not like that people always looking for a webbrowser and for YouTube and that like...
<BrunoSpr>
The ordinary user anyway will not install Haiku for now I fear
<nephele[x]>
Well, there is not much to be done about that, users expect what they are used to, and windows is basically a glorified chromium launcher, and that is what people are used to now
<BrunoSpr>
Haiku should be made comfortable for developers and not for the end consumer I think.
<nephele[x]>
I'm compfy :)
<BrunoSpr>
User need a browser and YouTube that like
<BrunoSpr>
and Haiku can now!
<BrunoSpr>
A computer to run a browser.... and that is not a BeOs way=
<Vidrep_64>
PulkoMandy, "he hack has been examined and a cleaner fix put in place in the development branch for webkit" Is this the last commit made in HaikuWebKit master branch (which I am currently building)
<PulkoMandy>
yes
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<BrunoSpr>
Someone could do a BrowserOs and most people will enjoy
<nephele[x]>
the hack is what is in haikuwebkit 1.8-2 from haikuports
<nephele[x]>
1.8.2-2
<BrunoSpr>
Is it the hrev: 55181 +51?
<nephele[x]>
No, it's the hwikuwebit version, newer beta3 has the minimum version bumped to it, but older builds get it too if you update the system
<Vidrep_64>
The hack is currently in the Beta 3 test image, but the correct fix is implemented in HaikuWebKit master (awaiting further testing), if I understand the situation correctly
<PulkoMandy>
yes
<Vidrep_64>
HaikuWebKit 1.8.2 WebKit 612.1.25
<PulkoMandy>
after the beta3 release I will again be able to ship webkit updates somewhat regularly (we'll see how often)
<Vidrep_64>
It just finished building now. So far, so good
<BrunoSpr>
but that is not a real problem for now InMy Own Opinion...
<Vidrep_64>
I'll review my open WebPositive tickets using this build and report any fixes, new bugs or regressions
<nephele[x]>
thanks :)
<Vidrep_64>
I'm glad you guys worked to fix the browser before we released the Beta. In my opinion that bug was a show stopper. Nice work, and thanks for your efforts!
<BrunoSpr>
nice
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<BrunoSpr>
The point for the future is: How to convince to use Haiku for developement and for study and work?
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<cocobean>
Learn from the past?
<cocobean>
:)
<cocobean>
Just kidding.
<BrunoSpr>
Lots of example code was included with BeOs and there where some lessons as well, but we could do it better now!
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<BrunoSpr>
We do not need another communication or promoting team, we need some people to do teaching Haiku!
<BrunoSpr>
The marketing team is of less use here...
<AlwaysLivid>
I'm affiliated with the marketing team, promoting the software as a reason for people to switch *is* a factor.
<AlwaysLivid>
Not the single one for sure, but this is one of the reasons it's there for. I got Diver to re-arrange the featured software so that we can promote it more easily and are trying to come up with a plan on how we could do social media better in order to educate and keep people updated with the progress here.
<BrunoSpr>
What about the Telegram channel? There are most strange people atm. Harald W. and that kind...
<AlwaysLivid>
"most strange people"?
<AlwaysLivid>
We are also trying to migrate away from the channel, I think I could pull off the plug right now.
<AlwaysLivid>
*out
<BrunoSpr>
Ah ok, maybe this is badly needed now
<AlwaysLivid>
#haiku-promo
<AlwaysLivid>
(bridged with Matrix/XMPP/Telegram)
<BrunoSpr>
The start of the Telegram channel was promissing, but then it got in bad directions now
<AlwaysLivid>
?
<AlwaysLivid>
I'd be glad to discuss any cases of misconduct if there's a problem with a particular person that I should be aware about, but I'd advise you to avoid publicly naming/shaming and bringing it up to a member of the core Haiku team.
<AlwaysLivid>
Well, you just did name a person, but please do bring it up to someone else who's further up the chain and I'll try my best to coordinate with the person you reach out to in order to reach a resolution if I am needed.
<BrunoSpr>
some people destroying serious discuss about Haiku on Telegram Channel!
<AlwaysLivid>
The due procedure for reporting people engaging in any sort of misconduct is reaching out to the team
<AlwaysLivid>
If there's something that I can actively do and if there's a way that I can intervene (that being people engaging in misconduct in one of the channels that I moderate, the primary Haiku chat on Telegram not being one of them), then do let me know.
<PulkoMandy>
Vidrep_64, yes, I had forgotten to update the ticket, just done it now
<AlwaysLivid>
cocobean, that's a good walkthrough
<BrunoSpr>
I am not about censore people, I just wish we could stop them to destroy Haiku discussion on Telegram
<PulkoMandy>
AlwaysLivid, I think it's not really misconduct, but the telegram channel is largely harald sending hundreds of messages on all kind of somewhat non-haiku topic, I will admit that I am not reading it all
<PulkoMandy>
but then, there never was a strict "keep on topic" policy, so...
<PulkoMandy>
I guess I just prefer IRC where there is no expectation that everyone will read everything
<AlwaysLivid>
The Telegram chat I originally referred to, that I am in control of, is the Haiku Promotion Team Telegram chat, which we are planning to get rid of in favor of open protocols, such as IRC/XMPP/Matrix.
<AlwaysLivid>
But yeah, trolls.
<BrunoSpr>
There are a lot of Harrald W. out there who flod the channels with texting
<PulkoMandy>
I think all modern chat platforms, being designed for enterprise chat or one to one or small group messaging, miss that
<PulkoMandy>
except maybe discord
<AlwaysLivid>
disgusting
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<AlwaysLivid>
but yeah, I'm not sure, I am not of the opinion that people who sow discord and tension (this is how I perceive what you're all saying and I haven't noticed anything dramatic) should continue doing so without any consequences or a strict notice, at the very least
<BrunoSpr>
cocobean, starting the site will crash Web+ here...
<Vidrep_64>
PulkoMandy, I didn't realize that I only have 3 open browser tickets, including the one referenced earlier. The other being Google Maps.
<AlwaysLivid>
but I don't think that my perspective here matters as much and I'm not able to nor have I been assigned the responsibility to take any action.
<PulkoMandy>
technically that telegram channel is not even an official one
<PulkoMandy>
it's just someone created a channel on their preferred messaging network
<Vidrep_64>
I tried the latest build on Google Maps and it doesn't display the maps anymore.
<Vidrep_64>
At least before it would load and crash after a few minutes of use.
<AlwaysLivid>
PulkoMandy, it's still an integrated part of our community that we technically have control over, we just do not endorse it, right?
<AlwaysLivid>
"we" as in Haiku
<BrunoSpr>
PulkoMandy, ok than we need to anounce an officiall Haiku Telegram Channeln with BeOs/Haiku rules
<PulkoMandy>
AlwaysLivid, not really? It happens that 3 haiku project members are also admins there. but that doesn't even make us a majority of the admins
<BrunoSpr>
I just recognized people on Telegram first used it alot and there was nice discuss. but now it seems to be avoided by Haiku User
<AlwaysLivid>
seems fair
<PulkoMandy>
BrunoSpr, the official channel is on IRC and we do not want to spread to other networks
<AlwaysLivid>
... especially closed networks, honestly
<AlwaysLivid>
it's too much effort over something that does not align with us ideologically, i'd definitely be for promoting #haiku-offtopic and its Matrix channel though
<BrunoSpr>
true, but how to reach the new user than?
<BrunoSpr>
Telegram was starting very nice then
<AlwaysLivid>
complicated subject, honestly
<PulkoMandy>
probably not through instant messaging
<PulkoMandy>
social networks (twitter, youtube would be nice), website, press releases and getting things actually in the press (or tech websites)
<BrunoSpr>
I always try to post instand positive message about Haiku here and then...
<PulkoMandy>
and after they have installed Haiku, they get easy access here with Vision
<BrunoSpr>
yes
<BrunoSpr>
but Vision is only 150 User now
<BrunoSpr>
what happens here?
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<BrunoSpr>
the change to OFTC was kind of desturctive
<BrunoSpr>
and the loose of control about Telegramm channel as well
<AlwaysLivid>
we don't deal with korean princes taking over our irc networks all of a sudden
<AlwaysLivid>
everyday
<BrunoSpr>
now we need to promote better ways to communicate?
<AlwaysLivid>
if we did not move to oftc, we'd be so much worse off and we'd have lost *all* of the users lol
<AlwaysLivid>
and the fact that we did that so soon was better, because after some point, freenode held the users of communities that took too long to move as hostages
<BrunoSpr>
yes but now it is ok, we can start again... and now we need to be aware...
<AlwaysLivid>
i think we were closer to ~180 users back then
<AlwaysLivid>
130 is more than fine, it'll probably increase after some time
<AlwaysLivid>
but telegram. it's already gone to trash, it's unofficial, haiku team members don't have the time to also moderate that
<AlwaysLivid>
you're more than free to come up with your own channel and promote it, i'll join it personally
<AlwaysLivid>
but *endorsing* it is sort of anti-thetical to our values, we've provided a lot of ways to accommodate all sorts of people but we just can't accommodate everyone by ourselves for different reasons
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<PulkoMandy>
the users we have lost were not really active anyway
<PulkoMandy>
people just connect to hundreds of channels and forget they have them...
<PulkoMandy>
not a lot was lost, really?
<PulkoMandy>
in any case, if you have problems with someone in the telegram channel, you can complain to the telegram channel admins and owner
<BrunoSpr>
AlwaysLivid, yes I agree here, and hey thank you for support my ideas, and Adrien as well... I am just a Haiku
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<AlwaysLivid>
you're more than free to create a new channel if you think you can moderate it better or ask an existing moderator for permission to do so on the existing channel if you think you could do a better job
<PulkoMandy>
what's with everyone calling me by my realname lately?
<BrunoSpr>
äh ah dont know
<BrunoSpr>
I just want to be polite and showing my interest and knowledge about Haiku comunity here
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<BrunoSpr>
Ups, haiku crash on ArsTechnica now...
<BrunoSpr>
Sometimes I think we need a lot more of luck, and that like...
<BrunoSpr>
Beta 3 is very good one as is, even with small hackings, but it works... Twitter, we need it soon? Maybe...
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<nephele[x]>
Maybe this is just my skewed perception but i think the activity in irc is higher since we moved to oftc
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<Not-5835>
[haiku/website] kallisti5 pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±1] https://git.io/J8ax5
<_Dario_>
just curiosity: what is the meaning of the [x] and the [m] besides some nicks?
<nephele[x]>
I'm making fun of the matrix users
<nephele[x]>
:)
<_Dario_>
oh, I get it
<_Dario_>
m = matrix
<rennj>
matrix bridge to irc
<_Dario_>
then x = ?
<nephele[x]>
i'm using biboumi to connect, though i have my "proper" nickname registered... though i don't want to give my password to the bridge neccesarily
<rennj>
xmpp gateway to irc
<_Dario_>
thanks!
<_Dario_>
learning a new thing every day :)
<rennj>
when VR takes off, and all this stuff will become obsolete even faster
<rennj>
VR generation will be laughing at old timers behind a screen
<nephele[x]>
Meet us in 2030 when haiku gets vrkit and we can all join our virtual dev conferense to make fun of others anime avatars