<trungnt2910[m]>
Hmm, would new ports of GDB and lldb be useful?
<x512[m]>
Yes I think.
<x512[m]>
Haiku native debugger is very slow, memory hungry and have very limited functionality.
<x512[m]>
I would vote for LLDB because it use more modern code base and compiled with CMake.
<trungnt2910[m]>
<x512[m]> "Haiku native debugger is very..." <- Yeah sometimes Haiku Debugger crashes before the debuggee runs into issues...
<trungnt2910[m]>
It really is such a pain that I use strace and printf for most Haiku debugging...
<trungnt2910[m]>
I'm looking to apply for GSoC'24 using that idea.
<x512[m]>
I made SystemManager utility that can show stack traces of running applications.
<x512[m]>
Also it show place in code by double click.
<trungnt2910[m]>
Stack traces sometimes don't work, especially when running JITted code.
<x512[m]>
Personally I would make FP an obligatory part of ABI, including JIT.
<x512[m]>
Maybe there are an option to turn on FP register in JIT generator.
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<trungnt2910[m]>
For dotnet JITted code, the FP is valid. However, these frames aren't associated with native symbols, and only managed debugger can work out what those addresses mean.
<x512[m]>
Isn't .NET debugger a separate thing unrelated to GDB/LLDB?
<x512[m]>
I have an experience of porting safe GC language and runtime environment to Haiku: https://github.com/X547/BlackBox-Haiku. It use its own debugger.
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<Begasus>
That is a nice one if it could be finished "Some drivers implement minimal support for multiple displays, but not all of them. This task may involve updating the video drivers to handle multiple monitors correctly."
<Begasus>
:)
<Begasus>
I don't need hw accel :P
<Begasus>
PulkoMandy, is still valid? "80 character limit line" thought it went up to 100 in Haiku's source too?
<PulkoMandy>
yes, it's 100 now, where did you see a 80?
<Begasus>
Modular edit view (BIG)
<Begasus>
on the task list for GSoC proposel
<PulkoMandy>
ah, yes, I can change that (but I think the character limit in modular edit view should be configurable). Also I'm not sure this idea is still valid now that we have Koder and Genio
<PulkoMandy>
not sure developping yet another sourcecode editor view is a great idea now
<x512[m]>
Begasus: Multiple display support would be probably not fit to GSoC project because it need design new API and adapt all graphics drivers for it. Students may have no matching hardware to mentors hardware etc..
<x512[m]>
Porting debugger for much better to GSoC project, it do not need to invent something new.
<x512[m]>
for -> fit
<Begasus>
ok, then it maybe could be adjusted/removed :)
<Begasus>
yeah, gathered as much x512[m], still would be nice to have that second monitor working here in Haiku though :)
<trungnt2910[m]>
<x512[m]> "Isn't .NET debugger a separate..." <- Just an example to illustrate why the stack trace is not always useful.
<Begasus>
bugger, tokodon 22.04.3 crashes on 32bit :/
<Begasus>
22.11*
<PulkoMandy>
x512[m]: multiple display gsoc project can be done with just one driver (maybe one where qemu supports multiple displays), and we can adjust the other ones later. Or even just with test_app_server and two windows
<x512[m]>
New accelerant API is most difficult part. It require complete redesign.
<x512[m]>
Current accelerant API have no concept of multiple screens at all. It also have no concept of video buffers and other important things.
<PulkoMandy>
I know. But we have multiple displays working on radeon 7000 cards, so, the interface kit parts could be worked on independantly from the accelerant api
<PulkoMandy>
If there is agsoc student interested in this, they can decide (with their mentor and other people here) which part to work on first and what the goals for the project will be
<x512[m]>
Hopefully there are also app_server HWInterface abstraction over accelerant, so it will be possible to use accelerant v1 and v2 at the same time that will simplify migration.
<x512[m]>
Accelerant v2 API design is non-trivial. I think it is nearly impossible for GSoV student, unless they worked at Linux DRM/KMS etc..
<x512[m]>
I suspect that even Haiku developers have no complete view how Accelerant v2 API should be and what is required.
<PulkoMandy>
So what? We give up? Or we try anyways and see what happens?
<x512[m]>
One of important topics is buffer flipping, some hardware such as VisionFive 2 makes it nearly required because framebuffer is is cache coherent.
<PulkoMandy>
I don't like sitting here saying "waaa this is complicated, we can't do it". We have to try something, fail, and learn
<PulkoMandy>
Ok but the project for gsoc is "multiple displays support", not "rewrite all of app server to handle all possible cases"
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<x512[m]>
is not cache coherent
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<Kokito>
Happy new year Begasus!
<Begasus>
Happy New Year Kokito!
<Begasus>
All the best to you and your family
<Begasus>
not something to share, installation directory for Lazarus +1.93GiB :P
<Begasus>
tokodon 22.04 launches fine :)
<Begasus>
now how do I login there ...
<Kokito>
Same to you and your family Begasus!
<Kokito>
Reboot now
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<x512[m]>
Anyway, I plan to try to design Accelerant v2 API this year. Don't know how well it goes.
<Begasus>
haven't used it in a while, so can't tell how well it's working
<Begasus>
hmm flatcontrol*?
<PeetPeet>
But re they like gtk themes in the sense that you can toss a theme file in a folder and it shows up in thememanager?
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<Begasus>
/boot/system/data/UIThemes
<Begasus>
there are the ones from ThemeManager
<Begasus>
Made the Olive one back when ZETA was still around :P
<PeetPeet>
The theme in tht screenshot for Genio is FIRE!
<Begasus>
that's not listed here :)
<PeetPeet>
Someone must know where tht theme came from
<extrowerk_>
PeetPeet: do you mean the window frame theme or the control ui theme, or both?
<PeetPeet>
both
<extrowerk_>
they are separate things, so you need to source both.
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<extrowerk_>
the window frame looks like the flat theme, but no idea what colors is used, maybe the default ones. I have no info about the control theme.
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<extrowerk_>
I personally against using window or control theme, they can easily get things crash, which is dislike.
<Begasus>
Happy New Year to you too extrowerk_ :)
<extrowerk_>
HNY to you too Bega!
<PeetPeet>
flat theme? Where is this on my system? I don't see that in Appearance or in ThemeManager
<Begasus>
not seeing anything for flat decorator with pkgman also
<extrowerk_>
PeetPeet: probably you will have to install it, look around in the Depot, maybe you will find it.
<extrowerk_>
otherwise you will ask around.
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<extrowerk_>
Thats the issue with the decors, they not necessarily maintained by the Haiku project and therefore they can get out of sync with the Haiku sources and it frequently means crashes for the users.
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<extrowerk_>
I have tried to chec kthe depot website, but i am on the road with bad 4G coverage, and i got only errors in the browsers. Some months ago i had to sacrifice my Haiku install on my laptop and i haven't had time to reinstall it, so i am using OpenBSD, which looks like this: https://0x0.st/H6xR.png
<extrowerk_>
I got a bride and now if everything goes allright we will renovate a house on the outer edge of a big city (the 4th latest building on the street) and move there. Many things to look for latelay.
<bitigchi[m]>
extrowerk_: congratulations
<extrowerk_>
bitigchi[m]: thanks!
<bitigchi[m]>
All the best!
<PeetPeet>
extrowerk_ that's nice to hear. Are you in the US by chance?
<extrowerk_>
PeetPeet: nope, i am in the EU.
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<Begasus>
Congrats there too extrowerk_!
<Begasus>
fscking "waiting for ..." :/
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<PeetPeet>
I hate github
<Begasus>
don't use it? ;)
<PeetPeet>
I can never figure out how to download anything
<Begasus>
depends on what you are looking for
<PeetPeet>
when did all the software in the world end up on github?
<Atomozero>
Whaoo, IRC is alive then! :D
<kallisti5[m]>
PeetPeet: when Github implemented the PR system. If you want to contribute to something, you gotta fork it on Github.
<kallisti5[m]>
It's why I have like 200 repos on github, but use Gitlab for my own projects
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<Begasus>
I'm still good then, only 69 kallisti5[m] :)
<kallisti5[m]>
lol
<zard>
Atomozero: it's nice, isn't it :D
<Begasus>
yeah, need to change that number :P
<lorglas>
Hello, and a late happy new year
<zard>
A late happy new year to you too!
<Atomozero>
zard lol :D
<Begasus>
Alles Gute zum Neues Jahr lorglas!
<Atomozero>
buon 2024!!! :D
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<HaikuUser>
hey there
<Begasus>
Hi HaikuUser
<lorglas>
hi HaikuUser
<Begasus>
lorglas, did you get a chance (or Christian) to fix imagemagick-gui?
<Atomozero>
boys/girls: small questionnaire: how many of you have tried Genio? What do you think?
<Begasus>
"used" ... looks nice :)
<lorglas>
@Begasus I think so. We
<zard>
HaikuUser: you can change your name using /nick <new name here>
<lorglas>
@Begasus we have some other projects with the kids
<Begasus>
np lorglas, just that it was mentioned here, and now I see you ;)
<zard>
Atomozero: Used it only once. One of these days I'll get a chance to use it more...
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<Begasus>
reminds me of a song berliner :)
<Atomozero>
@zard happy coding :D
<Begasus>
or was it a saying ...
<berliner>
thanks @zard - it's been a while since I used IRC :)
* zard
wonders if @zard is supported by some IRC clients
<zard>
Certainly not mine... But since I know the meaning, it's fine anyway
<Atomozero>
For those who don't know Genio :D
<Begasus>
list of supported languages is pretty big there Atomozero
<zard>
Wow, never new of desktoponfire.com!
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<zard>
That means it needs more advertising on the Haiku forums ;)
<Atomozero>
@begasusyes it's been a great job done by the community
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<erysdren>
yeah ive never heard of this site either
<erysdren>
it looks cool
<zard>
And active
<Atomozero>
It is a project born 10 days ago :D
<erysdren>
oh lol
<zard>
Ah, that explains why I've never heard of it
<Atomozero>
We think that there are a lot of small news stories about haiku and often they are not collected because they are written on Telegram or scattered in the forum.
<Atomozero>
We promised ourselves to make a post every 15 days but we see that there would be news at least every 2 days
<erysdren>
makes sense
<Begasus>
Nice Atomozero! +1
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<Atomozero>
@begasus It's a small tribute to iscomputeron.com :D
<zard>
I've also been thinking of writing some blog posts about Haiku for similar reasons as you. But, I haven't had the time to
<Atomozero>
I imposed myself 10 minutes every day at lunch:D or after dinner
<Begasus>
thought so Atomozero, DaaT would be happy I think :D
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<PeetPeet>
got that dark theme installed.. it's no bad
<Atomozero>
@begasus He's done a great job in the past
<Atomozero>
eheheheh the dark theme is cool
<Begasus>
oh yeah! every one in the BeOS scene knew about it
<erysdren>
Begasus: what's the concensus on including game data (shareware) as a package on haikuports
<erysdren>
or as part of the game package itself?
<Atomozero>
@begasus true
<erysdren>
like for Quake, DOOM, or Rise of the Triad etc
<erysdren>
they all separate data files for shareware versions, which are free and legal to distribute
<Begasus>
if it's shareware and available to download I guess it would be better to let the user do that himself?
<erysdren>
i was only asking because i think the BSD's have a package for the Quake shareware data
<Begasus>
but I don't know if there is a "rule" for it, maybe open an issue at haikuports about it?
<Atomozero>
There should already be, it's a normal WordPress. Tomorrow I'll investigate why he doesn't show it. Now I'm trying out the images of haiku riscv
<Begasus>
+1
<Begasus>
few things needs translations :)
<erysdren>
hey Begasus, can you tell me what XDG_DATA_DIRS resolves to on haiku?
<Atomozero>
PeetPeet because the browsers we have aren't perfect
<PeetPeet>
double hmm
<jmairboeck>
PeetPeet: an app for Dropbox is nice because you get all the files synced to a local folder where every program can read and write them directly
<Begasus>
works pretty fine in Falkon (at least the basics)
<Atomozero>
win8linux[m] Can't read a particular URL?
<Begasus>
jmairboeck, maybe you can have a look at it? no idea how to use dropbox :)
<Atomozero>
I agree with jmairboeck
<jmairboeck>
I do have a dropbox account but haven't used it for a while
<win8linux[m]>
Atomozero: Nevermind, a couple refreshes later it loaded.
<jmairboeck>
no idea how their API works
<Atomozero>
The site is in the startup phase, I'm trying some new plugins, but I'd like to keep it light. If you find bugs please feel free to notify me
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<PeetPeet>
jmairboeck My clients literally pay me to prevent this from ever happening. It's such a huge security risk and they refer to DropBox as a virus lol
<PeetPeet>
I do too
<win8linux[m]>
<Atomozero> "win8linux Can't read a particula..." <- Happened again with another URL, this time Dev Console shows a 500 Internal server error.
<win8linux[m]>
Atomozero: The issue seems for now to happen at random.
<win8linux[m]>
* Atomozero: The issue for now seems to happen at random.
<PeetPeet>
Vison's icon is kinda wicked. Reinds me of the sentinels from The Mtrix
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<PeetPeet>
Why do people even use third party servers for sharing data when sftp makes it possible to encrypt everything at the transport layer?
<Begasus>
well, seem PonyExpress still links with dropbox, no idea what it is doing though :P
<Begasus>
lol, it's still in the depot too :P
<PeetPeet>
This place is full of ambitiuos, positive people :) The world could use more people like you all.
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<Begasus>
checking something in virtual env, bbl
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<PeetPeet>
test
<PeetPeet>
Is it possible to reset an application's settings in the same way you can delete the config or settings folder in linux?
<augiedoggie>
usually yes
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<PeetPeet>
more specifically, how do I reset Vision's or any application's) settings?
<augiedoggie>
most apps will store their settings in ~/config/settings you just need to find the file and delete it
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<PeetPeet>
I could swear that was the first place I looked.
<PeetPeet>
Thanks
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<BrunoSpr>
hi all
<zard>
Hello BrunoSpr
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<andreasdr[m]>
Hi there.
<x512[m]>
@_oftc_Atomozero:matrix.org: There are no HaikuPorts riscv64 packages available yet via pkgman.
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<Anarchos>
is it possible to shrink a bfs partition with DeviceSetup ?
<x512[m]>
Currently BFS partition resize is not supported.
<Anarchos>
x512[m] i guessed it but was not sure. No trouble i can delete my partition. now the hard part : is it possible to install ubuntu from Haiku ?
<x512[m]>
You can write Ubuntu install image from Haiku.
<Anarchos>
to an usb key you mean ?
<x512[m]>
To USB drive or free disk partition.
<Anarchos>
so a partition for the iso, and another for the final installed ubuntu ?
<x512[m]>
Final partition for Ubuntu is better to create from native Ubuntu installer.
<x512[m]>
Easiest way would be use USB drive and "dd".
<Anarchos>
x512[m] ok. i wanted to do it on my server through ssh, but will put an usb key tomorrow in it :)
<x512[m]>
Using internal disk is more tricky, especially for UEFI.
<Anarchos>
i disabled uefi to stick to old bios, cause i don't know anything to uefi and it seems a mess to configure with haiku boot loader
<tqh>
Another area where dev stopped because of stupid -2's
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<x512[m]>
tqh: ?
* Anarchos
is trying hard to get interlisp ported to haiku
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<PetePete>
Got some vintage Garrett snuff.
<PetePete>
Still hits hard.
<erysdren>
who's Garrett?
<erysdren>
oh
<erysdren>
tobacco
<erysdren>
lol
<PetePete>
My grandma took snuff all her life
<PetePete>
I never knew it was meant for sniffing
<PetePete>
If you are a tobacco user, you've gotta try snuff
<erysdren>
nah, i'm not
<erysdren>
i don't smoke anything anymore
<erysdren>
for weed i do gummies
<PetePete>
Me neither
<PetePete>
I don't mess with anything. I just discovered snuff though and for an occasional buzz, it's really nice. Smells great
<erysdren>
nie
<erysdren>
nice
<PetePete>
You feel like such a degenerate though, hoovering it up like Tony Montana
<erysdren>
lol
<erysdren>
luckily im already a degenerate, hardly matters to me.
<erysdren>
i got Haiku x86 running on that 2007 HP Pavillion, but it kept randomly freezing, so i gave up
<erysdren>
plus i couldn't get it to work with my shared wifi over ethernet
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<erysdren>
i just have terrible luck with this because i have mostly old and busted up mid-2000s laptops