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<OscarL>
Hi PriyanshuGupta[m]!, I think I've just replied to your post in the Haiku forums (you can assume "OscarL" == "BiPolar" in any Haiku/BeOS context :-D)
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
okay
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
thank you oskar you are a great help
<OscarL>
if you follow the docs I've just linked there... beware that you *might* need to do `chmod +x` on the `commit-msg` hook step.
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
okay
<OscarL>
Not sure if it is really needed (all my setups are at least 2 years old, and still work to this day)-
<OscarL>
but I've noticed user "nephele" saying that the "chmod +x" might be necessary.
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
I'm just confused about where to start the xfs project
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
OscarL: noted
<OscarL>
PriyanshuGupta[m]: please excuse, in general, my ignorance... I'm just a silly folk from Argentina.
<OscarL>
My "English" is not very good, and my programming skills... are not too good either, but... I'm always happy to help with the little I can.
<OscarL>
When you say "where to start the xfs project"...
<OscarL>
do you mean:
<OscarL>
1- how to compile the xfs addon (quite specific question, that I think I *can* help you with).
<OscarL>
2- where to start working on improving the current XFS driver (a more broad question, that I think it is better for either the mailing list, or the forums, at least)
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
I'm looking at the write support project
<OscarL>
Ok. Have you been able to setup your "build environment" so you can do things like compile your own "haiku-anyboot-*.iso" image?
<OscarL>
AFAIK, you can build it either natively (from Haiku itself), or from host like Linux/BSD/MacOS.
<OscarL>
*My* experience goes only as far as compiling things "natively". Other IRC users/devs might help you with issues specific to cross-compiling.
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
OscarL: yes
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
I'm on linux
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<OscarL>
PriyanshuGupta[m]: Alright. I would suggest, first of all, making really sure that your build setup is correct...
<OscarL>
as in... you can build the .iso for Haiku from your current system
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
yes ,i had build the .iso haiku myself on my system and it's working fine
<OscarL>
sounds like a good start already!
<OscarL>
So... what's your next "show-stopper"?
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
I'm thinking about starting from a small write support project
<OscarL>
AFAIK, Haiku's XFS support is read-only, but working (I haven't confirmed this myself)
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
yes
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
i want to add the write support
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
I'm using clion for my IDE and debugger
<OscarL>
Alright. Understood. What's stoppping you from doing so? Lack of documentations regarding XFS internals, Haiku internals, or something else?
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
or maybe i will look gdb for debugging
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
i have to write the write support from scratch that's why I'm confused
<OscarL>
Not sure how do you expect to do it otherwse?
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
yes
<OscarL>
Maybe you mean the API for write support on the VFS?
<OscarL>
as in... what functions you need to implement to add write support?
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
something like that
<OscarL>
(again, sorry if my questions sound dumb)
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<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
OscarL: no offence, I'm on the same page
<OscarL>
regarding the actual VFS API, or its internals... you better ask the "real" developers (you might want to either use the development mailing list), or contact specific users, after you find out "who-wrote-which-code")
<OscarL>
all I can provide is some pretty general pointers, I'm affraid :-(
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<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
okay
<OscarL>
I think a good start would be to read all the XFS related post on haiku-os.org
<OscarL>
pretty sure they mentioned what was done, and what needed to be done.
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* Frost
uh... did not even know this was going to be an IRC client. Goodness!
* OscarL
wishes he could have waved Frost goodbye before he left :-/
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<OscarL>
there he is!
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<OscarL>
wb Frostwolf! :-P
<Frostwolf>
STILL registered with nickserv?
Frostwolf is now known as Frost_
<Frost_>
Eh it'll work.
* OscarL
never registered any nick :-P
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
OscarL: I'm looking at it and all the patches regarding it
<Frost_>
Anyway yeah. Poking in the applications menu and... bam I guess this is an IRC client, haha
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<OscarL>
Frost_: like getting caught with your pants down, more or less :-P
* Frost_
grins. No kidding.
<Frost_>
Just got Haiku installed on a USB stick, multibooting with FreeDOS and OpenBSD! Haven't actually tried booting on real hardware yet though, did the install in a VM.
<Frost_>
Ha. HaikuDepot has QEMU. We're running it in QEMU. VMCEPTION.
<OscarL>
PriyanshuGupta[m]: sounds like a good approach. In general even if we DO have some "mentors"... you're kinda-sorta-expected to figure out, at least some things, by yourself... we ARE a small bunch... and the "real" developers... a few and far too streched already :-D
<OscarL>
Frost_: as long as you don't expect KVM-levels of performance with QEMU... enjoy! :-P
<Frost_>
*grins!* Nah, it's mostly because I don't feel like rebooting. :3
<OscarL>
I feel ya-
* Frost_
pops in with host OS IRC client.
<Frost_>
...if I can manage to do that, anyway.
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<forestbeasts>
Here we go!
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* Frost[forestbeasts]
reboots to install updates and, uh, add a virtual normal sound card alongside the virtual Sound Blaster 16 for DOS.
<Frost[forestbeasts]>
Hmm. How's Haiku's multimonitor support? I'm tempted to try a real boot, but we have three displays connected and using the TV would be pretty awkward.
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<OscarL>
Frost[forestbeasts]: zero multimonitor support, unless your hardware does display cloning before you boot, IIRC :-(
<Frost[forestbeasts]>
Aw, heck. :<
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<OscarL>
Some drivers do supported multimonitors, but only in BeOS, again... IIRC... (has been a looong 2 decades +)
<Frost[forestbeasts]>
And it would almost certainly default to the TV, since that's what the BIOS does. (Unless we turn off CSM, in which case it seems to clone to everything.)
<Begasus>
g'morning peeps
* Frost[forestbeasts]
waves a paw.
<Begasus>
Hello there Frost[forestbeasts] OscarL :)
<Frost[forestbeasts]>
On the other paw, there's our laptop! One screen, probably better. That introduces Wifi Complications, though.
<Frost[forestbeasts]>
Also how do we change our shell to something other than bash? I installed zsh, and it runs, but don't see a chsh command. Is it a terminal app setting maybe?
<Begasus>
External HDMI screen would be nice to get working on the laptop :)
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<OscarL>
God morning, Begasus!
<Begasus>
Still up OscarL? :)
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<augiedoggie>
you can change the shell in /etc/passwd but it requires a reboot to take effect
<OscarL>
Frost[forestbeasts]: Not sure what's the best way to change your default user shell... There's `useradd -s` at least
<Frost[forestbeasts]>
Oh cool, thanks!
<Frost[forestbeasts]>
Rebooting after's fine, no biggie.
<augiedoggie>
same thing with setting a password, the registrar server doesn't reread the passwd file when it changes for some reason
<OscarL>
Begasus: yeah :-/... at least today I'm less sleepy :-D (yestearday was up almost 46 hs :-()
<OscarL>
eh... "s/yesterday/previously" would problably make more sense :-D
* Frost[forestbeasts]
doesn't even know what a registrar server is. Saw it in the processes list and assumed it had something to do with DNS.
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<OscarL>
Frost[forestbeasts]: registrar_server, AFAIK, manages (at least parts of the) inter-process comunnication, recent docs/files/folders list, mime-types ("file<->app association"), etc.
<PulkoMandy>
OscarL: Multimonitor support works fine. I have a machine with radeon 7000 here and I can use two monitors on that one. It's just that no one bothered or managed to do it on the modern drivers
<PulkoMandy>
Screen preferences already has the needed code to configure each d=splay separately and all
<OscarL>
I remember some of RudolfC's drivers having support for it, but also some requiring a separate "preflet" app, my bad.
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<Frost[forestbeasts][haiku]>
Holy heck Haiku detected our wifi chip with absolutely no setup. OpenBSD didn't do that!
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<Frost[haiku]>
Now to figure out DPI scaling... and is there a way to control screen brightness? I guess probably not?
* OscarL
gets "jealous". His iwifidual7260, first refused to work for a week. Then worked 2 days, then never ever again :-(
<Frost[haiku]>
Oof, ow.
<Frost[haiku]>
Ours is um. idualwifi7260? Oh yeah same thing.
<Frost[haiku]>
Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6.
<OscarL>
Frost[haiku]: brightness control mostly relies on hardware specific drivers, AFAIK.
<Frost[haiku]>
Makes sense. Sheesh.
<OscarL>
a *possible* workaround is to set the brigthness after post, but before actually booting.
<Frost[haiku]>
Yeah, the brighness keys work in *DOS* of all things, so!
<OscarL>
works on my Atom N450 (BIOS boot), doesn't works on my Celeron N4020 (UEFI)
<Frost[haiku]>
Oh hey, we could try BIOS boot.
<OscarL>
even if you have driver support (as I have on my Atom N450, brightness control migth not work still once in Haiku)
<Frost[haiku]>
ow!
* OscarL
re-reads augiedoggie's last comments and remembers... locale env-vars also do not get (currently) updated witoout a reboot after changing settings in Locale preflet.
* OscarL
thinks he already has a patch in one of his installs... which one... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
* Frost[haiku]
reboots to change DPI scaling (linked to the font size? huh.) and shell.
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* coolcoder613
waves to Frost[forestbeasts]
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<coolcoder613>
Hi Frost[haiku]
* Frost[haiku]
woofs!
<Frost[haiku]>
Hey!
<OscarL>
All these woofs, forrest, etc, reminds me of "Forrest wispers my name" somehow :P. Time for some Cradle of Filth, I guess.
* Frost[haiku]
grins. He's a wolf, so!
<OscarL>
s/forrest/forest/ /me can't English.
<Frost[haiku]>
...hm. How does SSH work? It has a password, but Haiku... doesn't have an OS password in the first place. Is it a "copy your SSH key across manually somehow" kind of deal?
<OscarL>
I had it working at least once. Almost sure I just followed similar instructions.
<Frost[haiku]>
Looks like sshd is running by default, at least.
<Begasus>
for git I use it per session with "eval $(ssh-agent) + ssh-add" in Terminal
<Frost[haiku]>
Yunno, we've never messed with ssh-agent even on Linux!
<OscarL>
Frost[haiku]: just be aware that Haiku generally doesn't has "$HOME/.files_or_dir", prefering instead: just "file_or_dir" under "$HOME/config/setting/"
<Frost[haiku]>
Oh that's really good to know, thanks! Like ~/Library/Preferences on Mac.
<OscarL>
eg: NOT $HOME/.ssh/, but "$HOME/config/settings/ssh".
<Frost[haiku]>
Honestly Haiku feels like a weird alternate-universe Mac OS in some places. :3
<OscarL>
Frost[haiku]: considering BeOS (Haiku's heritage) was "up for sale" to APPLE before they bouth NeXT... not surprising :-P
<Frost[haiku]>
Huh! That's cool.
<Begasus>
and our founder came from that corner :)
* Frost[haiku]
grins.
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<OscarL>
Wasn't JLG given the boot from Apple just in time for Jobs's second comming? :-D
<OscarL>
maybe quite a bit early :-D (not much of an Apple historian here=
<coolcoder613>
Wasn't JLG involved in getting Jobs booted from Apple
<coolcoder613>
And then he was fired soon after?
* OscarL
reboots to see how much of a PITA is to get Python 3.13.0a3 to compile on nightlies.
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<coolcoder613eb>
Hi OscarL-x64
<OscarL-x64>
'lo there coolcoder613eb :-D
<Begasus>
3.13 already? :)
<coolcoder613eb>
yup
<OscarL-x64>
Begasus; I was planing on wating for the fist beta to do the first test build but...
<OscarL-x64>
s/fist/first/
<Begasus>
focus issues? ;)
<OscarL-x64>
why? I fixed 3.10 on nighlies already! :-P
<Begasus>
nothing else on the plate? :P
<OscarL-x64>
(thanks to korli, of course!)
* Begasus
is kidding :)
<Begasus>
have to wait for a sollution for the buildmasters to procede with anything at haikuports
<OscarL-x64>
Begasus: was trying to joke here as well... you are, of course, quite right regarding my focus issues :-P (and I *do* appreciate you for joking about it :-D)
<OscarL-x64>
same with the typos. always makes me smile when I see you joking about it on the logs !:-D
<Begasus>
sorry there ;)
<OscarL-x64>
darn new laptop audio volumen WAY too low for proper Cradle of Filth listening :-/
<Habbie>
just overdrive it 200%
<Habbie>
Cradle can handle it
<Begasus>
Put on Mozart or something then :P
<Habbie>
let's meet in the middle at Dark Moor
* Frost[haiku]
yawns, rubs eyes with paws.
<OscarL-x64>
Habbie: already have set it with evertiing I can... except installing Equalizer-APO on that Win install :-( (USB-audo 2.0... so no Haiku)
<Frost[haiku]>
Can't get SSH keys to work and we should probably go to bed.
<Habbie>
Frost[haiku], i remember there's always one step i forget when setting up ssh in haiku
<Frost[haiku]>
oh, hmm?
<Habbie>
PermitRootLogin maybe
<Frost[haiku]>
it's supposedly defaulted to prohibit-password and I'm using a key!
* OscarL-x64
got a "Loogs good" from korli... enough validation for a couple of months :-D
<OscarL-x64>
s/loogs/looks/
<Begasus>
+1 :)
<Begasus>
don't think there is some magick done already to add some space at the buildmasters :/
<OscarL-x64>
Darn GH eatiing 50% of 2 of my cores, just idling there :-/
<Frost[haiku]>
Also added the key to ~/config/settings/ssh/authorized_keys. Which I hope is the place to put it.
<Frost[haiku]>
Typed it out manually, heh. The randomart appears to match though.
* OscarL-x64
head bangs at: CoF's cover of "Hallowed Be Thy Name" \m/
<Begasus>
hence the typos! :P
<OscarL-x64>
might explain things, mmm...
<Begasus>
lol
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* Frost[haiku]
meh, shuts down the laptop. It's 1 AM.
* Frost[forestbeasts]
pops over here.
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<OscarL-x64>
Habbie: 20 db on Equalizer-APO... if I'm found on the floor bleading... I'm leaving a note about you! :-P
<Begasus>
why do those java packages have to be so big ...
* Frost[forestbeasts]
heads out. Good night, all!
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<OscarL-x64>
this usb_audio card is a PoS :-/ ... even hooked to my "big" 3 watts amp + "big" speakers sounds like a notebook :-D
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<Begasus>
should update my local gradle recipe :D
<Begasus>
grabbing gradle_bin-8.6-1-x86_64.hpkg and moving it to /Opslag/haikuports/packages/gradle_bin-8.6-1-x86_64.hpkg :)
<OscarL-x64>
darn Hyper-V VM can't even do ping :-(
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 0f792e577c04 - BMenu: std::stable_sort uses a comparator function returning bool
<Begasus>
Netbeans 20 is out :)
<OscarL-x64>
lol, on at least one syntetic (single-core) benchmark the Haiku on HyperV (Celeron N4020) beats Haiku on bare-metal (Phenom II): 30s vs 35s :-D
<OscarL-x64>
will have to compare Python build times at some point (at least for the newer, single-core builds)
<botifico>
[haiku/website] pulkomandy bba3f9f - GSoC ideas: add an explicit "expected outcome" for each idea
<OscarL-x64>
now... let's see if this thing actually builds (might require at least one further patch on nightlies, thou!)
<Begasus>
and then 32bit? ;)
<Begasus>
bugger ... /Opslag/wip/arianna-v24.01.95/src/bookserver.h:6:10: fatal error: QHttpServer: No such file or directory
<OscarL-x64>
Begasus: re 32 bits.. surely will be half the work than on 64 bits, right? :-P
<Begasus>
right! (grins)
<OscarL-x64>
welp... will have to wait anyway... 'coz this thing is chocking while compiling "mimalloc/prim/unix/prim.c" :-S
<OscarL-x64>
error: implicit declaration of function 'open'; did you mean 'popen'? <<<< did I? :-P, also...
<OscarL-x64>
"[...]/posix/fcntl.h:94:17: error: conflicting types for 'open'; have 'int(const char *, int, ...)'"
* OscarL-x64
pretends to understand any of that :-P
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* OscarL-x64
slaps a ` && !defined(__HAIKU__)`, and hopes for the best.
<Begasus>
lol
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<OscarL-x64>
noup... lets try with `#elif defined(__HAIKU__)` instead :-P
* OscarL-x64
reminds himself of monkeys and typewritters, somehow.
<Begasus>
or "|| !defined(__HAIKU__)" next ... :)
<OscarL-x64>
nah... elif seems to have worked, yay me! :-P
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<OscarL-x64>
now to see what the new error is :-D
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<Begasus>
trying to follow the progress on a riscv build image in Terminal is impossible :P
<OscarL-x64>
(silly typo on the .patchset file... /me? a typo? unposible!)
<Begasus>
nah :P
<Begasus>
whoops ... /Opslag/Haiku/X512/generated.riscv64/cross-tools-riscv64/riscv64-unknown-haiku/include/c++/13.2.0/cstdlib:79:15: fatal error: stdlib.h: No such file or directory
<Begasus>
got it :)
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* OscarL-x64
attempts one more time, before giving up for today... weather is getting way too hot to do much :-(
<OscarL-x64>
damn Pe, messing tabs vs spaces on my .py patches :-D
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<Begasus>
tsss ...
<OscarL-x64>
yahoo!!! I have a functional python3.13-3.13.0-1-x86_64.hpkg :-D
<OscarL-x64>
from the REPL: "Python 3.13.0a3 (main, Feb 12 2024, 11:07:30) [GCC 13.2.0] on haiku1"
<zard>
Looks like we need to get Haiku-PyAPI available for it :)
<OscarL-x64>
heh :-D
<Begasus>
congrats OscarL-x64!
<Begasus>
got riscv hrev57581 to boot virtual :D
<OscarL-x64>
thanks :-D. I'm happy it went this well (far smoother than my 3.11 and 3.12 recipes :-D)
<OscarL-x64>
Begasus nice!
<Begasus>
seems the script to build a regular image and a riscv image is working :D
<OscarL-x64>
Mmm, both SystemManager and ProcessController have become unresposive, and unkillable :-(
<OscarL-x64>
these damn python tests are torturing my poor Haiku install.
<zard>
That's quite a comprehensive test suite, then :^)
<OscarL-x64>
indeed, we have quite a few failing ones... and a BUNCH we need to disable, because they do *this* to my system.
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* zard
imagines writing a test suite for Haiku that crashes the system without fail when its run
<OscarL-x64>
10 minutes later... ProcessController decided to show up :-D
<OscarL-x64>
"test_hardlink_to" yeah... that ain't gonna work.
<OscarL-x64>
darn test_mmap (15 minutes timeout while on "test.test_mmap.LargeMmapTests.test_large_offset")
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<zonk>
Is there a package for sdl2 which includes the development files like headers and such? I installed the libsdl2 package but it seems to only contain the binary shared object file.
<zonk>
Also, is there a different channel for discussing development/packaging?
<nosycat>
Try the same name with "_devel" on the end.
<zonk>
that appears to be empty
<zonk>
oh unless you mean the package
<augiedoggie>
HaikuDepot doesn't show devel packages by default, you have to enable it in the menus
<zonk>
well, I don't see any such package in HaikuDepot. Is there a setting to enable devel packages?
<nosycat>
Use `pkgman search`.
<zonk>
oh, yes there is
<nosycat>
Or on the site, there's a checkbox with a "binary code" icon.
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<Habbie>
incidentally i just read that post because an openbsd developer sent it to me :)
<zard>
Ah, right :)
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<Habbie>
i asked him what their plans are
* zard
is on #powerdns already :D
<nosycat>
NetBSD probably still supports 32 bits. And some Linux distributions.
<Habbie>
zard, oh lol :)
<Habbie>
nosycat, debian is currently finally doing the time_t transition for 32 bit platforms, which they wouldn't be doing if they were going away next month, indeed
<nosycat>
Good to know!
<Begasus>
Anarchos, thanks :)
<Begasus>
Kasts boosted my post on Kasts :D
<nosycat>
Woo!
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<Begasus>
I'll wait for an update on TeXstudio, I suspect there will be an update soon there
<weda[m]>
@kallisti5 i just played around with librespot and one of the dependecies is mio / tokio. It still causes the error you reported on other builds. I followed their github and they implemented a new poll backend in August. Have you tried to build tokio recently?
<Begasus>
k, PR for netbeans_bin done ...
<Begasus>
tokio? :)
<Begasus>
eeps ... rust*
<weda[m]>
Hello Begasus ;-) yes i thought i try to give spotify-qt a try and one of the dependencies is this librespot project and everything is rust :-D
<Begasus>
spotify-qt is already in the depot weda[m] :)
<weda[m]>
I know (this time i checked that beforehand! :) ), but to play music you need a client like this librespot (if i understand that correctly)
<Begasus>
yeah, never got that far to check it out
<Begasus>
also some deamon?
<weda[m]>
idk - i never used it before
<Begasus>
mentioning rust and working on a rust recipe atm :P
<Begasus>
Multithreaded PNG optimizer written in Rust* :)
<nosycat>
:D
<Begasus>
grabbing oxipng-9.0.0-1-x86_64.hpkg and moving it to /Opslag/haikuports/packages/oxipng-9.0.0-1-x86_64.hpkg
<Begasus>
building took longer then the recipe :P
<weda[m]>
I dont know anything about rust :-D But i have the QMediathekView recipe almost ready. Hope this time its not to much wrong...
<Begasus>
mind you, made LOT's of mistakes when I started out weda[m] (and sometimes still do) :D
<Begasus>
82 passed, 1 failed, not bad for the tests
<Begasus>
would be nice if the saved the failing one to a log :/
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<Begasus>
nice, scour detected also now :)
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<zonk>
I'm trying to compile a C program and the linker is failing to find functions for socket i/o. Is there a separate library that needs to be explicitly linked on Haiku? http://paste.debian.net/plain/1307106
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Perhaps libnet would work, try -Lnet or whatever the actual letter is for libraries.
<Begasus>
undefined reference to `recv' ... libnetwork is the thing :)
<Begasus>
congrats zonk, first program in Haiku?
<Anarchos>
zard maybe hurd supports only 16 bits ? </sarcasm>
<zonk>
Begasus: yep
<zonk>
not my software but first time compiling on haiku
<Anarchos>
Begasus my rule of thumb : 'no -lm but -lbsd -lnetwork' to each package i compile :)
<Begasus>
I tackle them when I hit them Anarchos :)
<Begasus>
cool, first succes makes hunger for more :D
<Begasus>
Anarchos "-lm" isn't an issue anymore for a long time
<Anarchos>
i be back later.
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<Begasus>
"-lrt" is the hard one to track down :P
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<Begasus>
closing down, cu peeps!
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<coolcoder613_32>
Good morning
<phschafft>
Good evening :)
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<phschafft>
all good?
<andreasdr[m]>
Arrrrrrr.
<andreasdr[m]>
Hi there.
* coolcoder613_32
nods, then realises he hasn't had coffee yet
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* phschafft
also hasn't had one yet.
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<Nephele>
phschafft: I've added another .ogg file to the repo!
<Nephele>
also, i feel kind of dumb for wanting to build my own network protocol for the usecase of "download an image" somehow, this seems like it should be a solved problem. But i'm not happy with the industry standard solution of "just spin up a http server lol"
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<coolcoder613_32>
nephele: magic wormhole?
<coolcoder613_32>
or oneshot?
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<PulkoMandy>
nephele: If you want something simple, there's the fsp protocol. But you'll still need to spin up a server of some sort, so...
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<Nephele>
Well, in this case it is for my game. Ideally I want in-band transmissions with the other game data, it just happens that the game canvas is saved and send as a series of images :)
<Nephele>
I do really want to use SCTP instead of UDP ... but Haiku does not support SCTP currently
<irixaligned>
hey, i'm having an issue similar to #17377 but seemingly way less diagnosable (at least to me). is this a place where i'd be able to discuss it before i probably end up making a duplicate issue or would that be somewhere else
<phschafft>
nephele: wuhhh! ;)
<phschafft>
nephele: if you go for SCTP keep me updated. :)
<irixaligned>
the primary difference is that my syslog appears to be significantly less helpful; this is an RX 560. it boots fine in CSM, but when booting with CSM disabled, it segfaults during connector_probe() with literally no explanation. previous syslog lines are exactly the same across the two, it's just that without CSM it dies inexplicably during connector_probe
<Nephele>
irixaligned: for something as specific as that.. just open the ticket. If it indeed is a duplicate me or someone else will close it, no harm done :)
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<Nephele>
also, you say with CSM disabled. Does that mean before you had the support enabled but booted with efi in both cases? or booted with CSM in one case and EFI in the next?
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<phschafft>
nephele: btw. feel free to ping me regarding the shell topic when you have a few minutes.
<Nephele>
phschafft: Well, I guess I need to first actually implement SCTP in haiku?
<PulkoMandy>
It will be more convenient to dicuss this on the bugtracker, I think (I'm going to sleep now, but if here's a ticket tomorrow maybe I have time to look into it a little)
<Nephele>
My "idea" anyhow was to use DTLS 1.3 over SCTP, but currently there is only a draft rfc for this and nobody implements it
<irixaligned>
initially I was booting EFI without CSM and it crashed, but booting EFI with CSM enabled does not crash
<irixaligned>
both cases are EFI, just one has legacy support enabled
<Nephele>
irixaligned: ah okay. That is good information to add to the ticket
<Nephele>
Feel free to open one in any case
* phschafft
nods to nephele.
<PulkoMandy>
Probabl
<irixaligned>
sounds good, thanks
<PulkoMandy>
Probably the driver expects the vesa bios to be there or something like that?
<Nephele>
phschafft: I do have some time now, however i'm a bit tired so i suspect i wouldn't be able to follow that well :)
<Nephele>
better tommorow i'd say
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<irixaligned>
i meant to say booting without CSM disabled in my initial message. just woke up, sorry :p. gonna make a ticket, appreciate the guidance
<irixaligned>
wait no i didn't
<Nephele>
don't be afraid to open a ticket, generally, even if it might be a duplicate
<phschafft>
nephele: was mostly thinking about a graphical mockup, just an image on marketing level quality (not technical quality). wondering if you did something yet.
<phschafft>
I'm with nephele there: I normally say: tickets come at no cost. open as many as you need.
<Nephele>
there is severall peeps who will triage tickets on the bugtracker and close it for you if it really is a duplicate (and also with a big memory of tickets that exist xD)
<Nephele>
finding all possible duplicates beforehand as an outsider is really difficult, so unless you know it is the exact same one (then you can vote) just open it, especially for hardware errors with "somewhat" similar hardware
<Nephele>
phschafft: don't quite understand, what do you mean with marketing level mockup?
<phschafft>
nephele: as in a graphic that one can show arround. on a level that is not about function but 'feel good' so one can win people's intrest.
<Nephele>
Advertisements?
<Anarchos>
helloooo
<Nephele>
"imagine a shell without accidentall rm -rf /"?
<Nephele>
Hi Anarchos
<phschafft>
nephele: if you want to use that word ;)
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<Nephele>
I don't have any advertisements anyhow
<Nephele>
just rough ideas in my head i want to write down
<HaikuUser>
hi guys
<Anarchos>
nephele every time i type rm -rf i am really scared what to type next, and don't hit enter mistakenly (beware the cat in the room...)
<Nephele>
hello HaikuUser
<Nephele>
We should implement FreeBSD undeleteable flags and apply them to hpkg per default in /system :3
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<phschafft>
you can first write the operants and then the options.
<phschafft>
as for cp and mv I /strongly/ suggest to get used to using -t.
<phschafft>
it is much safer.
<Nephele>
Anarchos: You can have a file called "-rf"
<Nephele>
of course, posix has "--" for that
<Anarchos>
nephele i often type 'rm -rf dir/*'
<Anarchos>
sometimes i acceidentally type 'dir/ *' with a space...
<irixaligned>
I'm gonna make 3 million tickets for the same issue and nobody can stop me >:)
<Nephele>
irixaligned: You underestimate my power!
<phschafft>
irixaligned: ;)
<Nephele>
I want SIGINFO, or well... I guess it doesn't matter if i make a new shell.
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<Anarchos>
phschafft what is cp -t ?
<phschafft>
Anarchos: -t gives the target dir.
<phschafft>
cp -t dir/ file file
<Nephele>
I just use -T
<phschafft>
that saves you from typing things like cp file0 file1 and then hiting return
<Anarchos>
phschafft oh nice
<Anarchos>
will remember this one :)
<phschafft>
no no more overriding files.
<phschafft>
also you can sometimes have it more easy as all the rest are source arguments. sometimes easier to mess around with globs or when using tab completion and stuff.
<Nephele>
I heavily disliked how arguments and options to commands are in the same stream for posix commands
<phschafft>
also keep in mind that things like 'cp bla*' and then hiting return might override things as you might have more than one file matching.
<Nephele>
it makes it so easy to accidentally do stuff, especially if you deal with files with minus in them
<phschafft>
nephele: just have diffrent ports for everything! ;)
<Nephele>
How come I have to remember which programm needs positional arguments, needs single dashes, needs double dashes, needs opt=var, needs double dash=var etc
<Nephele>
phschafft: I want to make heavy use of the tabulation key for inputing data to switch between *distinct* input masks for this stuff
<Nephele>
that's also why I do not want to use/re-use the tty/terminal emulation layer. As it would make this needlesly complicated
<phschafft>
nephele: yes, and again that is solved by ports as you move those syntax rules from the application into the shell. so the shell can do it in a consitent way.
<phschafft>
even in a configureable way if you like.
<phschafft>
like if one user likes -xxx and another one likes --xxx that could just be a config option.
<Nephele>
the programm only gets a consistent message with what it's supposed to do, basically only one *possible* protocol it can implement
<Nephele>
if you want a UI for it that does it with text with --blah you can do that too
<Nephele>
I'm really looking forward to trashing all those "is this an iNterActive shEll?" checks xD
<phschafft>
exactly. the program only sees something like 'here comes an option and that is "xxx"'
<phschafft>
or in the way I build it it only sees 'here comes an option that means xxx'
<Nephele>
this supports colored output, but not if you pipe it into less, unless you specify this option to less and this to the programm
<phschafft>
which would even allow for translated option names and stuff like that.
<Nephele>
yes, exactly
<Nephele>
the programm only needs the logical option name itself
<phschafft>
because in the way we implement those things any option a program has is known to the shell via the database.
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<Nephele>
but the gui shell, and the translation kit, can provide translated command names, arguments etc.
<Nephele>
in haiku probably with ressources in the elf file
<Nephele>
:)
<Anarchos>
nephele maybe you could do as the guy from templeos : reimplement your own shell (and OS by the way…)
<Nephele>
Anarchos: implementing a new shell for Haiku is the plan
<Nephele>
but not in HolyC
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<phschafft>
and that was my internet connection.
<Anarchos>
nephele holyC ?
<phschafft>
nephele: and that is what I would look forward to have a sub-project for this: some way to embed the data in a specific ELF section, with a format we define so that it works for both of us. :)
<Nephele>
haiku already does this
<Nephele>
unfortunately, not in a section but just appended to the file
<Nephele>
Anarchos: the langauge templeOS is written in
<phschafft>
nephele: I mean sections are the ELF-ish way.
<Nephele>
Yes, and haiku currently does the "we've always done it this way" way :g
<phschafft>
I see.
<Nephele>
It would probably be possible to change this, but haiku atleast still needs to support this way
<Nephele>
implementing this seperately to the haiku ""normal"" way of ressources for ELF files with a normal ELF section would probably be fine
<phschafft>
I mean it doesn't sound too complicated to add support to load things from a section and if it's not there fall back to the old way.
<Nephele>
Yeah, I guess not. But nobody did anything like that yet. It would also be nice since tools would no longer strip this data
<phschafft>
but I mean in this case, the shell case, this is a new logical block of information anyway. so I don't think there is a problem with having this one way or another.
<Nephele>
if this is different enough that this would have a seperate section anyway, then no. there is no problem
<Nephele>
though, for haiku this is probably syntactially similar/relevant. For example the mimetype of the application is in that current appended section
<Nephele>
and that is needed for the targeting for the message looper and such
<Nephele>
might ask x512[m], they had some ideas for moving this stuff to an ELF section iirc
<x512[m]>
I am currently working on making Haiku resources a regular part of ELF file.
<x512[m]>
So *.rc file is compiled into *.o file and passed to linker like any other *.o files.
<phschafft>
I mean we have the ValueFile format, but we don't yet have a binary format. but for reasons of SIRTX I'm currently back to defining something.
<x512[m]>
Resources are recognized by special program header entry.
<Nephele>
Sounds good. Specifying the interface in the .rc file would probably work just fine
<Nephele>
interface for the shell that is
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<x512[m]>
phschafft: Note that section data should be not used for already linked ELF executable for anything except debugging/inspecting.
<x512[m]>
If data is valuable at runtime, program header entry should be used. Or exported symbol with specific name.
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<Nephele>
the data might have to be read before the programm execution entirely
<phschafft>
x512[m]: I generally agree with you that there is more to consider. but this is a bit special as it is unclear when the data is needed.
<phschafft>
e.g. by a supporting kernel, by the operting system at time of (package) install, by the shell, or by the program itself.
<phschafft>
or any mix of it.
<phschafft>
so whatever is done should keep all those usecases in mind.
<x512[m]>
Then program header should be used.
<x512[m]>
Or append to end of ELF file as how Haiku resources currently stored.
<x512[m]>
New type of program header entry need special linker support.
<Nephele>
heh. maybe with lld, maybe we can also add support for the gcc2 abi to llvm...
<x512[m]>
I currently experiment with mold. lld should be also easy to support. But I currently do not know what to do with GNU LD.
<Nephele>
i don
<Nephele>
't think ld needs to be supported if we can compile haiku with llvm
<Nephele>
well, i'm going to sleep. Night
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<phschafft>
hm.
<phschafft>
x512[m]: why do they need special linker support?
<x512[m]>
Sections to segments mapping is hard-coded in linker.
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<phschafft>
hm.
<x512[m]>
I currently use .haiku.resource section to PT_HAIKU_RESURCES program header entry mapping.
<phschafft>
hm.
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