<coolcoder613>
So, test it, if it works, then we can do the pybind11-as-a-git-submodule thing
<coolcoder613_nok>
Nok is on my nokia e63
<zard>
Ah, interesting...
<zard>
Yep, I'm working on that pybind11-as-a-git-submodule :)
* zard
is trying to switch the submodule onto the smart_holder branch
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* zard
got it
<zard>
Compiling going well with the new submodule
<Al2O3>
zard so basically there is a pybinding that allows another runtime to own the object tree?
<Al2O3>
or it just maps it out (unwinds the object and reconstructs it) to another runtime?
<zard>
Hmm, not sure you have the right idea. Let me try to explain...
<zard>
Pybind allows writing Python bindings for C++ code
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<Al2O3>
I may not have the right idea. So, the objects are passed to another runtime, and that runtime understands the structure of the objs?
<Al2O3>
or this is at compile time?
<zard>
Hmm... so if a Python object gets passed to the C++ code
<zard>
Pybind might translate it into a C++ type for us, or we can interact with the underlying Python type
<zard>
So our C++ code can indeed interact with the structure of raw Python objects, if it so desires
<Al2O3>
What I'm asking is based on 30+ years ago ObjC and Python were linked along with other runtime systems post compile. here is something that may be of some help to describe what i'm trying to understand with your work. "Dynamic binding in Python is a feature of object-oriented programming that allows methods and attributes to be resolved at runtime based on the actual object being referred to, rather than at compile-time based on the
<Al2O3>
declared type of a variable."
<zard>
Hmm... so Python talked with ObjC...
<Al2O3>
a long long time ago
<zard>
And the Python and ObjC runtimes had to translate between themselves at runtime?
<Al2O3>
yes
<Al2O3>
along with many other language systems, including front ends to the interfaces.
<Al2O3>
it was dynamic, simple, and transparent.
<zard>
Pybind is a C++ library that we use with the code. We could remove it and talk to the Python runtime directly
<zard>
AFAIK, when Python imports our C++ code, the runtime loads our shared library
<zard>
It then looks at the shared library to see what functions we offer, and allows Python to call those
<zard>
Once Python does call one of our functions, we're given the Python types as the runtime sees them
<zard>
In C++, this might be the PyObject class, for example
<Al2O3>
it may be of some help to see how objc/runtime interfaced with tcl/tk and also python, and that work may make your lives easier.
<Al2O3>
I'm not privy to the pitfalls, but I suspect a lot of it was published, and also ironed out, forgotten, and then NIH to ensure some work and contracts.
<Al2O3>
it may be time to do DD.
<zard>
DD?
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<Al2O3>
due dilligence
<Al2O3>
this is all 30+ years ago, it may be obsolete, or something to revisit.
<zard>
Heh :). Pybind is what normally is used to write Python bindings for a C++ API
<Al2O3>
well, then you have done enough DD, normally.
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<Al2O3>
C++ is a strong type API, not runtime binding per se, and so it may work with your application and security needs.
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<zard>
Now, it would be nice if we could find a tool that could automate more of the work of writing Haiku-PyAPI...
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<zard>
Seems like there would be some tools out there to help
<Al2O3>
if python is a dominate desired language and runtime for Haiku. I'm not sure it is.
<Al2O3>
I don't speak for Haiku, but C++ has always been BeOS and Haiku language of choice.
<zard>
Still is for Haiku. Let's see if we can't change that :P
<Al2O3>
that is what I was thinking was the motive.
<Al2O3>
I think you can split off and fork the distrobution and make runtime, as well as compatability changes on your own and gain momentum.
<zard>
Fork off of Haiku or Python?
<Al2O3>
PiBeOS may be a nice name for the distro, and of course make it require upgrades and fees on March 14th of each year :)
<zard>
lol
<zard>
gtg, though, unfortunately. Nice talking with you!
<Al2O3>
chat be with you.
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<andreasdr[m]>
Hi there.
<andreasdr[m]>
Just playing around with my Haiku installation. Anything new?
<Al2O3>
let us know, when was the last time you installed?
<Al2O3>
version, release, hardware info.
<andreasdr[m]>
Ahhh. I check my Haiku every few days. So I had a look 3 days ago :DDD
<Al2O3>
well, not sure if there are diffs, updates, or otherwise you can VM or otherwise recourse to previous installs.
<Al2O3>
but, you can torrent or DL direct in seconds, install, boot and see if things are where you like.
<andreasdr[m]>
Wine on nightlies does draw, but it does not seem to swap drawing to app server somehow.
<andreasdr[m]>
So you need to move another window over wine window and voila you see the content of the wine window.
<andreasdr[m]>
Ahhhhh
<Al2O3>
voila
<Al2O3>
you are now Haiku-liberated
<andreasdr[m]>
Trying boxedwine. Curious if I can run eclipse within it.
<andreasdr[m]>
I am Haiku-liberated since 20 years :DDD
<Al2O3>
:)
<Al2O3>
good for you andreasdr[m]
<Al2O3>
makes you about 3 years after BeOS formally died.
<andreasdr[m]>
I know. I was part of the BeOS community back in the days. I had developed a software synthesizer and drum machine.
<andreasdr[m]>
But then BeOS crashed.
<andreasdr[m]>
Be
<Al2O3>
wanna a original baseball cap and polo shirt, tshirt, and distro R3 or R5 :)
<Al2O3>
which drum machine emulator, and synth generator?
<andreasdr[m]>
Wait
<Al2O3>
I bought a shittonne of stuff from auction in '00 and '01
<Al2O3>
owned #0004 bebox and then a dual 133 :)
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<andreasdr[m]>
Need to find the link. I have a video of the app running on Haiku
<Al2O3>
nice, would be neat.
<Al2O3>
did you ever have it demoed on a quad PII 200 or 233 system?
<Al2O3>
do you have it ever shown running on R3 or R5 or earlier?
<kallisti5[m]>
plus COW, plus replication, plus encryption, plus snapshots, extended attributes, etc
<Al2O3>
kallisti5[m] signing UP?
<mmu_man>
andreasdr[m]: actually it was a bit more complex the cache issue IIRC…
<kallisti5[m]>
lol, nah. I'm not smart enough for that, and don't have the time
<Al2O3>
trying to break 250K a year, most folks don't.
<Al2O3>
I'm still running simple rand password generators in applesoft for free.
<Al2O3>
weirdly, they work really well.
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<andreasdr[m]>
kallisti5 (@kallisti5:matrix.org): Ah, i dont know every detail, just high level talking in this area.
<andreasdr[m]>
Please enlighten us.
<andreasdr[m]>
Cool filesystem.
<coolcoder613>
andreasdr[m]: How do you think you will connect miniscript to the Haiku API?
<andreasdr[m]>
Not sure yet. Will try and if something is missing I will adapt MiniScript if its feasible. I will write a small C/C++ parser for that.
<andreasdr[m]>
Something like that.
<coolcoder613>
What kind of C++ does it compile to?
<andreasdr[m]>
C++ up to 20 If I am right. Will not work on 32Bit I guess
<coolcoder613>
Why not?
<coolcoder613>
I mean does it use C++ types and stuff?
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes.
<andreasdr[m]>
Because GCC is 2.xx or something, right?
<andreasdr[m]>
On 32 Bit?
<andreasdr[m]>
There is no cpp17 iteration or span or ...
<andreasdr[m]>
string_view
<coolcoder613>
on 32-bit there is gcc 13, and gcc 2
<andreasdr[m]>
smart pointers
<andreasdr[m]>
Ooooh
<andreasdr[m]>
Cool.
<andreasdr[m]>
Did not knew that.
<andreasdr[m]>
Never tried.
<andreasdr[m]>
Good info.
<andreasdr[m]>
Nice.
<coolcoder613>
Haiku is the main OS on my 32-bit box, which I use every morning, so I would know ;)
<andreasdr[m]>
Nice. Never used 32 Bit Haiku.
<coolcoder613>
Is miniscript OO?
<andreasdr[m]>
It has classes sort of. But no inheritance yet.
<andreasdr[m]>
And I do not yet plan to do that.
<andreasdr[m]>
I think there will be ways too.
<andreasdr[m]>
Still.
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<coolcoder613>
No inheritance is a pretty big obstacle for Haiku API
<andreasdr[m]>
I know. But I think there will be ways. Also think of YAB. They also have Haiku GUI API bindings. Let me just generate a small prototype soon.
<andreasdr[m]>
MiniScript is meant to be easy to use. Sooo.... I really dont plan inheritance yet.
<Al2O3>
is miniscript better than script fu?
<Al2O3>
and could you do this with yoru application?
<andreasdr[m]>
I dont care. Its good. It can be improved. Noone needs to use it.
<andreasdr[m]>
:DDD
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<Al2O3>
lol, it seems your application is really cool, and would be a neat modern tool to beats
<andreasdr[m]>
Lets see. Thank you.
<Al2O3>
hope so, and TY for sharing
<coolcoder613>
Hmmm... interitance as `window=BWindow; window.ReadyToRun=<function>`?
<coolcoder613>
pardon my pythonese
<andreasdr[m]>
:DDD
<andreasdr[m]>
All good.
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. Callbacks could work.
<andreasdr[m]>
Or a chain of callbacks. Or something. Maybe I can introduce a easy language feature for that. I dont have the whole situation right now in my head.
<andreasdr[m]>
Actually in games architecture people seem to go away from OOP. It was propagated like for years like composition over inheritance. I think OOP is good and ok. At least for C++, PHP or JAVA. But I dont really need it 100%
<andreasdr[m]>
Lets see.
<andreasdr[m]>
Curious.
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<coolcoder613>
First, write an example of an easy way to do creating a window and adding a button in miniscript, then try to make it runnable. Bonus points if you can make in portable across UI toolkits (maybe using libui)
<andreasdr[m]>
Yes. That was my idea too. Coool.
<andreasdr[m]>
How to make it portable? Yes. Was thinking of adding a cross platform UI, also was thinking of having maybe OpenGL or something, that people without 100% knowledge can try OpenGL with a easy language
<andreasdr[m]>
I dont need 100% a cross platform UI right now.
<andreasdr[m]>
But which would come to mind? Cross platform UIs?
<coolcoder613>
But don't tie down the UI API to one toolkit
<coolcoder613>
Have a look at libui-ng and pylibui
<andreasdr[m]>
Yarrrrrrr.
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<Begasus[m]>
This just popped up in my head :D :Hello from the other side 👅
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<Begasus[m]>
Hola Oscar-L :)
<OscarL>
Aloha Begasus[m] from the other side! :-P
<Begasus>
Hola from here too :P
* OscarL
tries using "git config core.preloadindex true", in hopes of makeing git operations slightly less slow :-D
<OscarL>
Begasus: whoa! Already seeig double, and I haven't even touched the gin bottle yet! :-P
<Begasus>
Still early there? :P
<OscarL>
gotta be past mid day somewhere already, right? :-D
<OscarL>
Mmm, git's "core.fsmonitor" also sounds prommising, but Win/MacOS only :-/
<Begasus>
what stopping you from trying to see if it doesn't work on Haiku? ;)
<OscarL>
knowing that I'll end up reading about how file monitoring works, what API Haiku has for that, and I'll forget that I intended to work a bit more on "previous" :-D
<Begasus>
not going to hunt down xash3d ...
<Begasus>
good enough ... for now :)
<OscarL>
I will (eventually) try with Xash3D!
<Begasus>
you will have to grab new archives, current one in the repo needs python2
<OscarL>
No problem. I want to see if it works with the 25th aniversary edition of Half-Life game data.
<Begasus>
ok, thanks :)
<Begasus>
oh man! :(
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<Begasus>
heh, from 50% passed to 25% to 100%, not bad :P
<OscarL>
sounds like my mood changes :-P
<Begasus>
rofl
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<OscarL>
"previous" now reaches "[ 97%]" cmake. Getting there!
* coolcoder613
waves to Begasus and OscarL
<OscarL>
hello there coolcoder613!
<coolcoder613>
How's previous going along?
<coolcoder613>
Whats the problem now?
<OscarL>
a small issue with some "dirent" struct, as far as I can see. Already encountered this for other recipes, so I should be able to work it out.
<OscarL>
(too bad that changing CFLAGS means rebuilding the whole thing, thou :-P)
<coolcoder613>
Why?
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<OscarL>
cmake sees that the flags changed, and starts from 0%
<OscarL>
reaching [ 98%] now :-D
<coolcoder613>
Well that is(n't) nice of them
<phschafft>
I would say that rebuilding after a CFLAGS change is a good thing, as specifically with developers that don't fully understand the details this might avoid people wondering about random segfaults.
<phschafft>
but it is also nice if it can be disabled if you know what you're doing.
<OscarL>
welp... here we go again, because previous uses a different flag for whether dirent has (or hasn't) 'd_namelen' than the one I'm used to. LOL
<OscarL>
phschafft: right! In this case... only one file affected by my changes, still need to rebuild all thou :-D
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<Begasus>
re
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<BrunoSpr>
good morning Haiku
* phschafft
nods.
<Begasus>
Hello BrunoSpr
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<OscarL>
welp, finnaly got a `previous-3.1~svn-x86_64.hpkg`. hp complains of top level share folder thou :-D (damn linuxisms!)
<Begasus>
lol
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<Begasus>
use "-L" with cmake to see if it shows you install paths, or grep for "destination" :)
<OscarL>
thanks Begasus, will do! (used $cmakeDirArgs, but seems that wasn't enough :-D)
<Begasus>
not always :)
<Begasus>
not every one is using GnuInstallDirs :)
<OscarL>
weird... there's a .bmp file that Haiku BMPTranslator refuses to open :-(
<Begasus>
nuke it :)
<OscarL>
works well on Firefox and IrfanView. 512x512x32... nothing too fancy about it. Weird.
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<Begasus>
Don't let people know you're running FF on Haiku :P
<OscarL>
:-D
<OscarL>
ok... got an .svg out of that "broken" .bmp...
<OscarL>
time to try that svg optimizer
<Begasus>
optiimage? :P
<OscarL>
found it... "scour"... wonder who wrote the .recipe :-P
<Begasus>
me know nothing :P "OptiImage-Scour.png" ;)
<OscarL>
213 KiB -> 144 KiB... might still be a bit too much :-P
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 2a2e7ad56284 - doc/user: mention libnetwork and a bit of the filesystem hierarchy
<OscarL>
Mmm. CMakeLists.txt full of "SDL2".
<Begasus>
OscarL, how did you fix this? /Opslag/wip/previous-code-r1424-trunk/src/zip.c:307:69: error: invalid application of 'sizeof' to incomplete type 'char[]'
<OscarL>
magic!
* Begasus
slaps OscarL
<Begasus>
tss :P
<Begasus>
5 minutes ... [ 94%] Building C object src/CMakeFiles/previous.dir/zip.c.o
<OscarL>
stop trygin to beat me to it! don't ou have some KDE things to work on instead? :-P
<Begasus>
nah, gone over all there I think :P
<OscarL>
let me clean up things a bit, and I'll push my (WIP) branch.
<OscarL>
ideally, this should have separate dirs for "dataDir included with the program", and "dataDir for user provided files".
<Begasus>
whoot, this thing goes fullscreen :P
<dovsienko>
so, I tried running "jam @nightly-raw haiku.hpkg" and it was busy for maybe 15 minutes until stopping for no apparent reason. there was a few hundred megabytes of files in ./generated, but the only item ending in ".hpkg" was a directory
<dovsienko>
I thought maybe the low disk space was the problem, and made another Haiku VM with mode disk and more RAM, waiting to see if @nightly-anyboot alone produces anything that's more usable...
<zard>
dovsienko: Don't have much experience, but I think @nightly-raw and haiku.hpkg are two different targets
<zard>
It may be possible to just say "jam haiku.hpkg"
<OscarL>
the "@" is a profile, not a target
<zard>
Ah... something I didn't know about jam
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* zard
tries to learn more about profiles
<Begasus>
OscarL, I wouldn't bother about bin/data folders
<Begasus>
you can select the BIN from menu :)
<dovsienko>
zard: I have not got the hang of it yet
<OscarL>
dovsienko: haven't build haiku.hpkg here in a while, so I don't remember where it is expected to appear, sorry.
<zard>
dovsienko: In case you didn't know, you can add "-j$(nproc)" to multithread the building process
<dovsienko>
zard: that's done already
<OscarL>
that "jam @nightly-raw haiku.hpkg" is the usual recomendation from waddlesplash, thou. Maybe he will chime in later on.
<dovsienko>
FWIW, just getting the latest .iso and installing yet another Haiku VM from it would scratch the itch
<zard>
Interesting, can't seem to find any documenation on profiles
<OscarL>
dovsienko: just for reference, 2 GiB of RAM in the VM was enough for me last time I've "jam haiku.hpkg" (some months ago)
<Begasus>
having a haiku.hpkg with default target already? generated.x86_64/objects/haiku/x86_64/packaging/packages
<dovsienko>
OscarL: then it should be even much so with the current 10GB :-)
<OscarL>
:-D
<dovsienko>
forgot to mention: the jam command that didn't produce any .hpkg files exited with status 1, although it did not print any error messages immediately before exiting
<OscarL>
"jam -q -jN haiku.hkpg |& tee -a save_the_logs_please.txt" ? :-D
<dovsienko>
let's wait until the current jam run finishes, then I can confirm the results. it is populating ccache in the process meanwhile, so the next runs should be faster
<zard>
Doesn't it? "Contains the list of targets specified on the command-line"
<Begasus>
no idea on how to call that still :)
<zard>
?
<nosycat>
Recursivity, n: see recursivity.
<zeldakatze[m]>
<Begasus> "haven't gotten around to re-..." <- no problem, I also took quite some time to fix that up and I should have a look at my other PR and why the cursor isn't drawn correctly. Thank you for spotting that minimizing bug, I still don't know how I missed that
<Begasus>
zeldakatze[m], maybe you didn't check that :)
<Begasus>
I only stumbled on it by accident
<zeldakatze[m]>
would it be ok if I'd post something about mumble in the playground thread in discuss?
<Begasus>
yeah sure, I'm no admin there :)
<OscarL>
believe it or not... this thing seems to actually behave now! (well, except it eats my CPU for breakfast, and I need to kill via ProcessController)
<Begasus>
OscarL, can't quit with Alt-Q?
<Begasus>
pops up the main menu here
<Begasus>
or F12 (wether or not with the function key)
<OscarL>
noup, tried alt+q / ctrl+q / win+q... this PC is to slow it seem
<OscarL>
F12 also doesn't works (once the emulation has started, I mean.
<OscarL>
ok... NOW it appeared, yup... my machine is just too slow :-D
<Begasus>
it works fine here, I need to use the function key combo though
<Begasus>
heh
<OscarL>
feels nice to have it working :-D
<Begasus>
+1
<zard>
bbl
* OscarL
runs `git rm previous-1.8~svn` while mmu_man is distracted :-P
<zeldakatze[m]>
<Begasus> "yeah sure, I'm no admin there :)" <- thank you, just wanted to ask before I'd post, as you created the thread iirc
<dovsienko>
so, after a much longer time "jam -j4 @nightly-anyboot" exited with status 1, it generated 8 .hpkg files in generated.x86_64/objects/haiku/x86_64/packaging/packages, which includes haiku_devel.hpkg, but not haiku.hpkg
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<dovsienko>
I tried searching in the last couple thousand lines of its output, but I do not see the immediate cause of failure
<dovsienko>
what would be the best command to retry building haiku.hpkg only?
<OscarL>
should only retry the targets that have failed, no? at least, that's how it works for me when simply doing say, `jam <somedriver>`
<dovsienko>
so you suggest to run the same command again and to save the entire output of that, correct?
<OscarL>
also, "jam -q" should just quit at first failure, no?
<x512[m]>
dovsienko: jam -q to stop on first error.
<OscarL>
dovsienko: yes, same command. if it starts building all over again, something is very wrong.
<dovsienko>
ah, that explains it. I presumed that's "quiet", an equivalent of "make -s", and omitted it in order to see the progress
<dovsienko>
alright, retrying...
* OscarL
is happy with beeing able to finish a build for previous in: "real 7m7,656s"
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<dovsienko>
this time jam exited with status 0, but still there is no haiku.hpkg anywhere under the haiku repository, including the generated files
<dovsienko>
the last line that mentions haiku.hpkg is: AddExtractFileToContainerExtractFilesScript <hpkg_-haiku.hpkg>haiku.package-extract-files-dummy-data/firmware/marvell88w8363-../data/system/data/firmware/marvell88w8363/88w8363-fw-3.6.2.2.zip
<augiedoggie>
they should end up in generated/objects/haiku/x86_64/packaging/packages/
<x512[m]>
dovsienko: Can you paste a complete log when running `jam -q @nightly-raw haiku.hpkg`?
<dovsienko>
let me try
<dovsienko>
FWIW, grep -E 'BuildHaikuPackage1 .+haiku\.hpkg' on the last log returns nothing, so it looks "jam -q -j4 @nightly-anyboot" didn't even try it
<dovsienko>
"Note that building the entire operating system on an x86_64 Haiku host will require that the buildtools for that architecture are also prepared and compiled." -- does this mean the build need that even without cross-compiling?
<Begasus>
back
<Begasus>
dovsienko, did you run configure on the buildtools?
<dovsienko>
I did not clone buildtools in this VM as I gathered from the earlier discussion it is not required for Haiku AMD64 on Haiku AMD64 build, is this wrong?
<Begasus>
afaik for 64bit you need the buildtools
<Begasus>
the libsupc++.a could be an indication the buildtools haven't been configured?
<waddlesplash>
dovsienko: so, the build actually does require crosstools to build the 32bit bootloader. however you can just disable that, and I usually do to avoid needing crosstools
<waddlesplash>
give me a few minutes and I'll be back at my desk and will tell you what you need to edit
<Begasus>
I'll let the master take over :)
<dovsienko>
alright, cloning...
<OscarL>
dovsienko: what I've tried to convay earlier is that.... no buildtools are needed if you only want to build the "haiku.hpkg" target.
<OscarL>
but, as mentioned, they are needed for the 32 bits bootloader, so if you want to do the full .iso... you do need them.
<dovsienko>
OscarL: this makes sense to me, but you can see in the log this did not work
<dovsienko>
just haiku.hpkg and haiku_devel.hpkg would be sufficient for my task, I think
<OscarL>
:-( worked for me last time I've tried (by the end of the year by the dates under my "generated" dir).
<dovsienko>
but I can go through the .iso either if that simplifies the matter
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<dovsienko>
I will be back soon
<OscarL>
I have a "haiku/haiku/generated/build_packages/gcc_syslibs_devel-13.2.0_2023_08_10-3-x86_64/develop/lib/libsupc++.a"
<OscarL>
missing gcc_syslib_devel package or outdate?
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<OscarL>
in fact... under "haiku/haiku/generated/download" I have BOTH "gcc_syslibs_devel-13.1.0_2023_06_20-1-x86_64.hpkg" and the newer:
<OscarL>
(removed all the 13.1.x ones, and trying jam -q AboutSystem, just to check)
<OscarL>
it indeed downloaded a newwer gcc_syslibs-13.2.0 for me.
<waddlesplash>
OscarL: there are different libsupc++ for 32bit bootloader.
<waddlesplash>
that's not in the syslibs package
<dovsienko>
in generated.x86_64/download/ there are gcc_syslibs-13.2.0_2023_08_10-3-x86_64.hpkg and gcc_syslibs_devel-13.2.0_2023_08_10-3-x86_64.hpkg if that matters
<waddlesplash>
dovsienko: so, the thing you need to edit is the file "build/jam/packages/Haiku", and comment out line 21 (put a "#" at the beginning)
<waddlesplash>
then the build should work
<OscarL>
waddlesplash: yeah, but from his logs, he ran "jam -q -j4 @nightly-raw haiku.hpkg"
<waddlesplash>
OscarL: yes, and the bootloaders are by default included in that package, mostly so EFI could theoretically be upgraded from it
<waddlesplash>
since there's some bug preventing it from being added to the haiku_loader package
<waddlesplash>
(well, it can be added, but it breaks BIOS booting.)
<OscarL>
ah... let me double check my settings then!
<dovsienko>
waddlesplash: thank you, done that, now about to run "jam -q -j4 haiku.hpkg"
<dovsienko>
haiku.hpkg now exists!
<OscarL>
mmm, I don't have that line commented out on packages/Haiku now. I'll just assume I *did* had it like that the last time I built haiku.hpkg.
<OscarL>
yay!
<PulkoMandy>
waddlesplash: Itws not a bug, but a known limitation of bios booting
<waddlesplash>
PulkoMandy: the loader that loads the haiku_loader file is supposed to only load the first file
<waddlesplash>
but either the BIOS loader isn't first in the file, or, something else is going wrong
<zard>
dovsienko: \o/
<OscarL>
dovsienko: cool you have it working! I've noticed that "Previous" (a NeXT emulator) I was doing recipe work for... can use libpcap for added features.
<OscarL>
so I guess I'll need to read up on that at some point :-D
<dovsienko>
"hrev57588 Feb 20 2024 14:43:06" --- that's what I need
<OscarL>
meanwhile... my test "jam -q AboutSystem" still running :-D
<Begasus>
doesn't seem to launch here :)
<Begasus>
eg build*
<dovsienko>
OscarL: I am not finding this on the interwebs quickly, what specifically does it do with libpcap?
<Begasus>
zeldakatze[m], thanks, mumble doesn't screw the system anymore :)
<OscarL>
dovsienko: this is from Previous' CMakeLists.txt:
<OscarL>
pcap :\tfound, allows networking without NAT"
<OscarL>
pcap :\tnot found, install it to use networking without NAT"
<dovsienko>
waddlesplash: thank you for the help
<waddlesplash>
no problem
<waddlesplash>
OscarL: that won't work on Haiku
<waddlesplash>
libpcap for Haiku doesn't yet support packet injection
<OscarL>
good to know :-)
<waddlesplash>
not sure how hard this would be to add. I haven't read the AF_LINK code enough to determine if its sending logic actually works
<dovsienko>
OscarL: if the networking needs to be two-way, this would need a working pcap_inject(), which is currently a stub on Haiku
<waddlesplash>
we definitely support SOCK_RAW AF_INET but that's insufficient here
<waddlesplash>
or, at least, I have seen code that uses that so I presume it works :)
<OscarL>
Begasus: yup! your's was shorter and better.
<OscarL>
s/your's/yours/
<Begasus>
ScrenShotDir ... typo? ;)
<OscarL>
in the commented out syslog line, right?
<OscarL>
I think that I type too fast for how slow my PC/VM combo is :-D
<OscarL>
some keystrokes go missin', y'all.
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<scanty>
i had an interesting idea the other night about Deskbar, anyone willing to hear me out?
<OscarL>
scanty: I bet the room is eager to hear from ANYONE but me at this point... please... go ahead!
<zeldakatze[m]>
<Begasus> "only checked the basics zeldakat..." <- I tested it for a bit and I didn't find any problems yet, I tested it on x86 aswell and it looks like it works there
<scanty>
ok, i noticed that after a certain point installing many apps, the Applications menu grows quite a bit. I was wondering if we could group the Applications into different folders that coincide with those in HaikuDepot
<Begasus>
LGTM, I'll let it rest untull tomorow OscarL (will do a checkbuild here), maybe someone has a better sollution for the size_t issue :)
<scanty>
so we could have Applications/Audio, Applications/Business, Applications/Development, etc
<OscarL>
Begasus: indeed, no hurries at all.
<Begasus>
scanty, been discussed multiple times by now :)
<scanty>
oh, ha. I knew I wasn't *that* smart :^)
<Begasus>
hehe
<scanty>
i think it would be a good move, but what do i know.
<Begasus>
even someone suggested a menu item for the kde apps in the forum the other day :)
<scanty>
hmm that's interesting, too.
<Begasus>
got 87 items in Application menu atm
<scanty>
that's why we need categories!
<Begasus>
but first a layout :)
<augiedoggie>
i thought we had at least agreed to move games to a different folder
<dovsienko>
okay... now libpcap master branch has all the bug fixes I managed to make. there's a couple more code comments to add to flag potential problems, but otherwise everything I knew how to improve has been improved
<Begasus>
no need for that
<OscarL>
damn... was already uploading the screenie :-D
<Begasus>
I check the INSTALL part when building (if it isn't passing by too fast) :P
<dovsienko>
if the packet injection code is not emerging anytime soon, the best next move would be to test the master branch for another week or two, and then to back-port into the 1.10 branch of libpcap to reduce the difference with the port
<Begasus>
just add "-DDATADIR=$dataDir/previous \" to cmake :)
<OscarL>
really?
<Begasus>
and nuke the "mv" part
<OscarL>
alright then!
<Begasus>
yep
<OscarL>
much better.
<Begasus>
read the source Luke! :)
<OscarL>
meh... that's what I get for actually readign the effing manual :-)
<Begasus>
not the f*n manual, just CMakeLists.txt :)
<OscarL>
what's worse... no docs, or outdated docs...pick your poison.
<Begasus>
CMakeLists.txt is where the heart is :)
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<Begasus>
only tackle those README's when I'm stuck on something
<OscarL>
what do you make out of "BIN2DATADIR" then? remember... I only ask because I do not know, and want to learn!
<OscarL>
duh! it was *juust* a couple of lines above that "BIN2DATADIR" :-D
<Begasus>
heh
<Begasus>
relevant to DATADIR iirc :)
<OscarL>
as the rest of the code actually references/uses "BIN2DATADIR"... I went that with that one, without even seeing that DATADIR.
<OscarL>
if DATADIR is used by the install step, but BIN2DATADIR is not... that might explain why I was puzzled I needed to mv/rm that "share" thing still :-D
<Begasus>
no indication here? "Relative path from bindir to datadir" :)
<Begasus>
k, boots up just fine +1
<OscarL>
I speak negative amounts of ALL build systems, so I stick to the little c/c++ I CAN read :-D
<Begasus>
and thanks on the fix for .config..
<OscarL>
:-D
<Begasus>
LOL
<Begasus>
payback? ;)
<OscarL>
at least this turned out to be a good learing/tutoring experice for me/you, right?, RIGHT? :-D
<Begasus>
always
<OscarL>
+1000
<OscarL>
Will probably ammend the PR tommorrow... if I do it now... I'll probably screw things over :-D
<scanty>
Begasus, any updates on Kontact?
<Begasus>
in regards of ScrenShotDir, I presumed it was something coming from the source OscarL
<Begasus>
some progress, but still can't make it hookup with gmail scanty
<scanty>
grr. Ok, thanks!
<Begasus>
akonadi et all launches fine when Kontact starts
<bitigchi[m]>
PulkoMandy: reverted the precision used in Locale preference panel, review requested :)
<OscarL>
Begasus: re: "ScrenShotDir" most probably I just hit a key one too many times :-D
<scanty>
i thought Kontact supported OAUTH2....
<OscarL>
speaking of locale things... is there a way to override specific locale formats? Say... Argentina is using AM/PM for hours and that makes zero sense.
<dovsienko>
would anybody like to test libpcap master branch before the recent improvements start making it into the next stable release by means of backporting?
<OscarL>
(no way I'm going to the process of filling that bug on ICU's JIRA)
<dovsienko>
would it make more sense to post a request for testing on haiku-dev or haiku-3rdparty-dev?
<OscarL>
same with missing leading 0 in front of day/months. I'll be happy to just locally override it to use YYYY/MM/DD instead :-D
<Begasus>
it seems to do scanty, but I haven't figured that part out :)
<scanty>
ah okay. i'll bother you in a week or two to see what's happening :^)
<dovsienko>
...or HaikuPorts-dev?
<Begasus>
could share a hpkg for it, but then you'd need dozen of framework/libraries from KDE too :P
<OscarL>
AFAICT... most of active devs are either here, or on Trac, dovsienko.
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<dovsienko>
okay
<OscarL>
mailing list wouldn't hurt, but do not expect timely replies there.
* Begasus
guesses the forum is more active on that :)
<scanty>
i'll think about it...... i might not want 20 million kde libraries.
<waddlesplash>
dovsienko: we could probably just port all the changes over at once via a patchset in haikuports
<OscarL>
I would offer my time, but I'm not smart/experienced enough to test your changes, sorry!
<waddlesplash>
so filing a ticket at haikuports will make the most sense
<Begasus>
so far 141 packages for framework 5.114.0 (not counting the libraries) :D
<Begasus>
not all are needed for Kontact though
<scanty>
wow that is a lot.
<scanty>
i do have a lot of space though.....
<Begasus>
more then we have in the depot :)
<Begasus>
and at least Kdevelop is broken on my attempt for KIO :/
<Begasus>
even the latest release for Okular is more stable here now :)
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<scanty>
what's Okular?
<OscarL>
scanty: my "QT/GTK" free nigthly is rougly 310 packages. my "dirty beta4 with falkon/dooble that I forget I have installed"... > 640 packages.
<scanty>
wow
<dovsienko>
waddlesplash: the intent was to reduce the amount of changes on top of the upstream, not the opposite
<OscarL>
scanty: I MIGHT have a serious case of too many python packages installed thou.
<OscarL>
(on my beta4, I mean :-D)
<OscarL>
meh... python related packages: 69-
<scanty>
i see....
<OscarL>
this Tracker "type-ahead" filtering DOES comes in handy!
<Begasus>
tss .. 640 :P
<OscarL>
btw... what about a poll for what Tracker default setting should be?
<Begasus>
as in?
<OscarL>
Defaults sucks for me? :-D
<OscarL>
I have to change: "Desktop->Show Disk icon", Windows: do people REALLY do NOT use "Single window navigation" and "Show Navigator" in 2024?
<OscarL>
"Enable type-ahead filtering" is off by default, IIRC.
<dovsienko>
I had to change that too.
<dovsienko>
(single window, with navigation)
<scanty>
i agree with OscarL. who wouldn't use single window navigation
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<OscarL>
"Disk mount": "Don't automount" / "Only the boot disk" / and unchecked "Eject when unmounting".
<OscarL>
I'll fist-fight anyone who disargrees with those defaults :-P
<OscarL>
(and I DO expect to lose, mind you!)
<Begasus>
default here too
<OscarL>
alright... we have some people agreeing some defaults could be updated... now we need somone to champion Tracker-related changes!
<OscarL>
where's Skipp_OSX when you need him? :-P
<Begasus>
grabbing a bite here
<Begasus>
and closing down for today
<scanty>
haven't seen him in a while.
<Begasus>
cu peeps!
<scanty>
seeya Begasus
<OscarL>
enjoy Begasus!
<Begasus>
cya!
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<scanty>
hmm Audacious looks better in Haiku than it does on Linux :-)
<OscarL>
scanty: wish my English was better :-(.... maybe he got a bit "put off" by the lack of progress on the changes he proposed?
<dovsienko>
waddlesplash: if Haiku grows VLANs or any other new interface types, or new capture modes for existing interfaces (802.11 monitoring), please raise that at libpcap early so it can be integrated better
<scanty>
OscarL your english is great.
<scanty>
rarely do i ever understand you
<zard>
Indeed, only rarely do you make mistakes :)
<OscarL>
I'm far from being "on his side" most of the time... but I *can* feel sympathetic to him, regarding some of the push-back he gets.
<waddlesplash>
dovsienko: not sure if I'll remember that if/when we get around to such things, but we'll see...
<OscarL>
today, I read a comment by René... left me with my eyes wide open.
<dovsienko>
waddlesplash: maybe a reminder in headers/posix/net/if_types.h or somewhere else would help
<OscarL>
thank you, scanty/zard. and sorry for the lag :-D
<PulkoMandy>
OscarL: Part of the unhappyness is because he submits already coded patches, so there is time spent on it that goes to waste if we don't accept the changes. It would be better to discuss things beforehand
<OscarL>
"rarely do i ever understand you" my sides! :-D
<OscarL>
PulkoMandy: and I *can* understand the whys of (some at least) of the push-back... thus my wish for having a better command of the English language :-(
<OscarL>
communication is hard. in a foreing language, double so. via text only? so damn hard.
<OscarL>
what's why I *try* to always remind myself: "please... assume that that person has the best intentions" while reading stuff.
<OscarL>
I do not always succeed in doing so, of course :-(
<dovsienko>
something isn't quite right with hrev57588: pkgman fails to download anything all the time:
<dovsienko>
Refreshing repository "Haiku" failed 0%: Operation not supported
<dovsienko>
Refreshing repository "HaikuPorts" failed 0%: Operation not supported
<augiedoggie>
i've seen people complain of that on other revisions
<dovsienko>
one the wire (tcpdump!) there is only good DNS traffic about eu.hpkg.haiku-os.org, but no connection attempts
* OscarL
wishes he could afford setting up a "latam.hpkg.haiku-os.org" server :-(
<waddlesplash>
dovsienko: what command did you use to build?
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<waddlesplash>
because if you didn't use one of the @ profiles, you probably got absolutely no optional packages included in the build
<waddlesplash>
and that includes OpenSSL, in which case the network kit can't do HTTPS
<dovsienko>
waddlesplash: "jam -q -j4 haiku.hpkg", pardon my ignorance
<waddlesplash>
yes, that's sans-profile
<waddlesplash>
you need jam -q -j4 @nightly-raw haiku.hpkg
<waddlesplash>
or @minimum-raw (less stuff, doesn't include the media kit and things like that so no audio playback)
<PulkoMandy>
We should probably stop making openssl optional?
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* dovsienko
is rebuilding...
<PulkoMandy>
And also make the default profile be something we actually use
<OscarL>
while re-reading the chat: scanty... I too find plenty of Qt apps looking *FAR* more at home in Haiku than on Linux :-D
<scanty>
indeed. it was a nice surprise.
<OscarL>
praise 3dEyes, I guess :-D
<scanty>
linux has probably 30 million UIs/configurations.
<dovsienko>
the VM has no sound card, so no playback would not get in the way (I wonder if that would unmask something else...)
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<OscarL>
I *knew* there was a reason to me suggesting ` jam -q -j4 @nightly-raw haiku.hpkg` :-D (it's the one with more matches while searching the IRC logs for "jam haiku" :-P)
<OscarL>
s/j4/jN/
<OscarL>
scanty: btw... even /me being a "metal-head" when younger (do you ever stop being one?)... just wanted to let you (and the room) know that I enjoyed a few of your tunes :-D
<scanty>
ah thank you :-)
<scanty>
i'm working to get a single pressed on vinyl.
<scanty>
that's my fun project for next month
<OscarL>
I was pleasently suprised of how much I enjoyed them so... please, keep us (or me at least!) updated :-D
<scanty>
of course. i'm glad you liked them :^)
<dovsienko>
using this @minimum-raw, haiku.hpkg is only 23MB large (was 37MB before). installing and rebooting...
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<dovsienko>
pkgman works again!
<scanty>
hooray!
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<OscarL>
Sorry for micro-necroing part of the chat but... re: "It would be better to discuss things beforehand"...
<OscarL>
it is really hard to balance the "how do I explain what I mean, without discussing actual written code?" and "this is what I wrote, now review it!"
<OscarL>
I've think I've seem the same people on both "sides of the fence", is what I mean.
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* OscarL
just wishing communitation was easier, nevermind him-
<OscarL>
damn typos, lol!, at least phschafft might get a laugh out if them, right?
<gordonjcp>
this channel's grown a bit since I was last here
<dovsienko>
waddlesplash: I am looking into the wpa_supplicant example
<dovsienko>
(took a detour to build tcpreplay for that, but after some porting ran into a logic error and decided to use a short custom .c file instead)
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<dovsienko>
which is reasonable because the stack needs to know out of which interface the raw packet is supposed to come out
<dovsienko>
so, either wpa_supplicant takes the branch that fills in sockaddr_dl and uses sendto(), or there should be a way to associate a socket with an outgoing interface once instead of for every packet
<dovsienko>
such as BIOCSETIF in BSD
<dovsienko>
as far as the comments in src/add-ons/kernel/network/stack/datalink.cpp go, there seems to be no equivalent
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<dovsienko>
could be SOCK_RAW with a call to bind(), as tcpreplay does for PF_PACKET... this needs some more tinkering
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<dovsienko>
pcap_activate(): SOCK_RAW: Address family not supported by protocol family
<dovsienko>
pcap_activate(): bind: Invalid Argument // if using SOCK_DGRAM
<dovsienko>
waddlesplash: if there is a working combination of AF, socket type and a function call to associate the socket with an ifindex, it is too late today to figure it out
<waddlesplash>
ok
<dovsienko>
if you know of a happy sequence that works, please post it to the channel and I will be able to pick it up tomorrow
<waddlesplash>
I suspect it's the sendto() path that works
<dovsienko>
that requires a destination MAC address and the certainty of knowing it is Ethernet
<dovsienko>
whereas pcap_inject() is supposed to take a complete packet and to put it on the wire byte-to-byte (it does not always work, but still)
<waddlesplash>
so, bind() should work, theoretically?
<waddlesplash>
that function returns EINVAL if the interface couldn't be found
<dovsienko>
my code fills the ifindex in
<dovsienko>
perhaps it is something else that is missing
<x512[m]>
Some stupid question: is it required to be subscribed to mailing list to send messages to it?
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<dovsienko>
if I take the sockaddr_dl that SIOCGIFADDR delivers and bind() that to a new AF_LINK/SOCK_SGRAM socket, bind() works, but then send() fails with EDESTADDRREQ
<dovsienko>
which may mean bind() works, but something else does not
<dovsienko>
let's have another look tomorrow. thanks to everyone for the help today