<bitigchi[m]>
Can someone suggest an existing project to check out the latest Haiku-y app structure and layout style?
<Begasus>
re
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<nephele>
Is there some Button Class to draw a button with an icon inside it (instead of a textual label), I've found BPictureButton. But this seems to be based on BPicture, and does not seem layout aware
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<waddlesplash>
nephele: BButton supports this?
<waddlesplash>
that's how BToolBar works
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<nephele>
I don't see how, there is no method to tell it to use an icon, or a constructor. And it needs a label in every constructur
<gordonjcp>
nephele: if you have some time, I'd like a bit of help on troubleshooting something with WebPositive at some point
<gordonjcp>
nephele: but if you want to explore for yourself, https://video.gjcp.net/ does not show the icons for the menu down the left in WebPositive but does in Web, with nothing "suspicious" in the server logs - both do hit all the required static files
<gordonjcp>
beyond that I don't really know what to poke at, I'm not really a web guy
<phschafft>
nephele seems to be popular.
<PulkoMandy>
nephele: BIconUtils will take care of rendering hvif to bitmap
<PulkoMandy>
It is in libicon (src/libs/icon I think)
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<OscarL>
heh, the buildmasters' reports surely look like a train-wreck :-D
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<n0toose>
hi there! been a long time! i'm trying to compile haiku for risc-v as i'm experimenting with the platform - the qemu-system-riscv64 command shown in the docs (https://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/compiling-riscv64) shows something about a u-boot.bin file
<n0toose>
do I have to compile u-boot by myself, or are there any constraints or do i have to look out for something in particular?
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 8a0270f - zlib, revbump for rebuild (#10227)
<nephele>
I think x512[m] is better to ask for riscV
<OscarL>
Begasus: "
<OscarL>
Error: Port zlib-1.3 depends on itself" nice one! :-P
<nephele>
gordonjcp: icons not beeing drawn in webpositive is probably not supporting certain webfont standars that use complex litigigures. i.e replacing "ICON_MY_ICON" with a icon in a font
<x512[m]>
EDK2 is also working for riscv64 and it builds pretty smooth on Haiku.
<x512[m]>
If multiple CPU cores are not needed, haiku_loader.riscv will also work.
<nephele>
gordonjcp: basically whatever software you are using is shipping custom fonts that do this litagure->glyph replacement on it's own as a "cool hack" :D
<nephele>
To support this in haiku properly we likely need harfbuzz based rendering of "complex" font paths in app_server, and then utilize this in webkit
<nephele>
phschafft: life of the party :)
<bitigchi[m]>
What is a good time to start complaining for a lack of Gerrit reviews?
<nephele>
bitigchi[m]: which one do you want reviewed?
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: Thanks, i'll take a look at BIconUtils
<x512[m]>
nephele: Skia library can be used as reference how to introduce complex scripts rendering.
<nephele>
x512[m]: I'm confused. for what?
<x512[m]>
It basically allow to draw glyphs, not characters.
<nephele>
... for the app_server? but why does skia matter if you use harfbuzz, better to look at other projects using it
<x512[m]>
So WebKit prepare glyphs and its positions and app_server will render it.
<x512[m]>
Skia is a good example how do design 2D graphics API.
<nephele>
We have to use whatever api webkit has for complex glyphs, not the other way around ;)
<x512[m]>
WebKit can work with Skia.
<PulkoMandy>
bitigchi[m]: I am travelling this week and have been preparing a few things for it in the weeks before. So I did not put as much time as usual in cooe reviews. I'm not forgetting about it, but it will wait until tuesday when I'm home
<PulkoMandy>
I| it is more numberformat and locale related changes, I guess other developers may not be as interested?
<nephele>
in order to figure out what glyphs need to appear where you need a locale aware library, like harfbuzz. Linking that into webkit when we already will have this in app_server makes little sense to me. So an api where webkit already knows this makes no sense
<phschafft>
nephele: already pushing back all the stuff I would like to discuss with you as you told me: next month. ;)
<phschafft>
but also good to see x512[m] alive as I have more questions ;)
<PulkoMandy>
nephele: It's a bit more complicated than that for webkit
<nephele>
phschafft: heh, well I can make some time next week aswell, or tommorow. Just don't expect me to implement anything for it these two weeks
<gordonjcp>
nephele: okay, how would I tell if it's doing that?
<PulkoMandy>
What webkit expects is indeed an api to "render this glyph here" (not character based)
<nephele>
gordonjcp: you see ugly text strings instead of icons
<PulkoMandy>
We have hacked it a bit to force it to work with characters because that's the only thing app_server understands
<gordonjcp>
nephele: right, but what I mean is, how would I identify code that does that sort of thing?
<nephele>
gordonjcp: but on a more serious note, you can check what the font order is for the element which
<PulkoMandy>
But it makes ligatures, arabic text, etc impossible to render correctly
<x512[m]>
Yes, app_server need an API to draw glyphs.
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: yes, i get that. However to understand *where* to render the glpyh we need harfbuzz. Do we now have two implementations, one in webkit, one in app_server?
<nephele>
or does harfbuzz live higher up in the interface kit?
<bitigchi[m]>
PulkoMandy, thanks for letting me know! Will wait then. nephele, I have three on the first page in case you are interested!
<nephele>
gordonjcp: to do the hack basically the element's text just has some special string inside, and a font order which defines the font to use, that font then has the glyphs inside it
<gordonjcp>
right
<x512[m]>
I suspect that WekKit does some complex interaction with HarfBuzz to perform glyph layouting with various complex CSS rules.
<PulkoMandy>
in the current architecture, it would probably be in app_server, with a lot of new apis, not only to draw a glyph, but also to parse an unicode string and convert it to glyphs, get the metrics, ...
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<PulkoMandy>
x512[m]: Only optionally. You can build webkit to use freetype and harfbuzz directly but we don't
<gordonjcp>
nephele: and Web (being epiphany) has this wrapped up internally in code that doesn't use Haiku's font rendering?
<x512[m]>
Note that IPC round-trips are expensive.
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<nephele>
Yes, Web uses the wayland api, with an emulation layer that "basically" just gives the app_server finished bitmaps
<gordonjcp>
right
<gordonjcp>
gotcha
<PulkoMandy>
Instad we use app_server and BView. But then we have to add all the needed APIs to BView (and implement it in interface kit or in app_server, depending on what makes more sense/works faster)
<gordonjcp>
nephele: incidentally that site is up most of the time except when I break it
<x512[m]>
Naive approach (asking app_server to measure each word with waiting fir reply) will make text rendering VERY slow.
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: In that case just building webkit with the installed freetype, and with harfbuzz, might not be the worst option. Rendering a specific glyph would likely not be that difficult to implement in app_server compared to full harfbuzz integration
<gordonjcp>
nephele: feel entirely free to use "Zoo Demo" or "cheesy" as sample videos, if it helps
<phschafft>
nephele: more wanting you to ask about your goals, basically ensuring that we keep being on the same page.
<PulkoMandy>
x512[m]: we have already added new app_server commands to make this faster
<gordonjcp>
nephele: both of those are entirely mine, I can do what the hell I want with them in terms of copyright, so the Haiku project generally can have 'em
<PulkoMandy>
You can send a full string and get an array of the positions for each character. Then pass that array back for drawing, if I remember correctly
<nielx[m]>
Scheduling Trac deployment for tomorrow at 08:00 GMT
<nephele>
nielx[m]: 1.6?
<nielx[m]>
nephele: correct
<nephele>
nice
<gordonjcp>
and indeed, if the Haiku project wants any sample video for stuff to show off media players or whatever just give me a shout and I'll make something
<x512[m]>
It is not a matter of commands, but how WebKit use this functionality. If WebKit need measurement results immediately, it will be deadly slow. Some special architecture with request batches will be needed and it is probably not supported by WebKit.
<PulkoMandy>
nephele: I did not manage to build with webkit/harfbuzz back when I tried. But it was a while ago. Certainly it would be interesting to try this and also cairo or skia for rendering
<nephele>
gordonjcp: currently webPositive does not play videos anymore in any case :D
<PulkoMandy>
x512[m]: Well... It already works? So ri don't see why "probably not supported"
<Begasus>
sorry peeps
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: hmm, i am not too much a fun of using cairo as such, as that makes it even less native. But as an alternative it may be worth considering, even if just to figure out what app_server could do better
<PulkoMandy>
I expect that other things (such as having a network cache and not redownloading every font and image at every mouse click) would be more interesting sor speeding up webkit
<gordonjcp>
nephele: heh, is that recent? I'm sure it worked before
<PulkoMandy>
nephele: Yes, I'm not saying we should switch to it, but it would be nice to experiment with it
<x512[m]>
Cairo is dead. Skia or MacOS native 2D API are used nowadays for WebKit.
<x512[m]>
Even GTK is moving from Cairo.
<PulkoMandy>
x512[m]: skia is not finished in webkit yet, and so cairo is not completely dead yet...
<nephele>
webpositive (or well haikuwebkit) has code to play videos pulkomandy wrote, but it doesn't do streaming. it downloads the entire video upfront if it sees a video element, this would lock up your browser often
<nephele>
so, since this only half-worked it is disabled for now
<PulkoMandy>
It is not disabled intentionally
<nephele>
I thought it was?
<PulkoMandy>
It stopped working, not sure why
<PulkoMandy>
No one tried to fix it
<nephele>
In any case, i'm more happy with a not-enabled video support than a broken one
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
hello everyone
<PulkoMandy>
Yes, that explains why no one fixed it :>
<andreasdr[m]>
Hi there.
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: yeah, my plan for when I'd investigate fixing it would be to rewrite it for streaming
<nephele>
but i keep pushing that back because i don't know about the media kit, and not sure where to start learning about it :P
<nephele>
gordonjcp: well, i don't think my goals changed that much, but then still i didn't have time much to investigate more with it
<PulkoMandy>
look at beezer, korli and others made good work there to get streaming working
<gordonjcp>
nephele: same
<gordonjcp>
nephele: I'd like to port some software synthesizers I wrote to Haiku, but I kind of don't know where to start with native stuff
<gordonjcp>
nephele: easy to port to (for example) LV2 with DPF or whatever
<nephele>
for audio I want to add a CLAP plugin host to the media kit audio nodes, as an adapter, and native api
<gordonjcp>
right
<nephele>
and then see if i can trick someone else to write a DAW ontop of that
<nephele>
hi andreasdr[m]
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
PulkoMandy: i have made changes to my proposal (XFS WRITE SUPPORT) can you review it. Suggestions are welcome
<nephele>
phschafft: well, if you want we can talk tommorow about it. But still, didn't have that much time
<gordonjcp>
nephele: How Hard Can It Be...?
<nephele>
writing a DAW? that's UX design :D
<nephele>
I'm already super happy about Medo, even though some bugs make it not useable for me currently :(
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: I'll take a look at beezer, thanks
<nephele>
I'd really like someone turning StyledEdit into a replicant so i can have a notepad on my desktop always open :3
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<n0toose>
x512[m]: thanks for the recommendations! would you like that i take some of the content (such as the edk2 content) and turn it into a pull request for the docs?
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<n0toose>
i'll probably try the separate variants myself as i'm curious and experimenting with the entire thing myself atm
<nephele>
gordonjcp: the site seems very "material-design"-y though
<nephele>
very press-this-text-label-not-a-button
<nephele>
material design seems like such a big step back design and UX wise, and clones of it even moreso :/
* n0toose
made an accident when CTRL+F'ing using the new IRC client
<nephele>
by the way, hi n0toose, long time no see
<n0toose>
o/
<Begasus>
closing down here, cu peeps!
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* OscarL
catching up with the chat: "beezer" and streaming in the same sentence sounds odd. He only knows one Beezer: https://github.com/Teknomancer/beezer
<PulkoMandy>
OscarL: Yes, thanks, I'm tired and mixing things up..e
<PulkoMandy>
Sorry
<OscarL>
no problem at all PulkoMandy :-)
<OscarL>
as long as nephele doesn't tries too hard looking for streaming code in Beezer :-P
<nephele>
tar supports streaming too. So I'm sure I'd find something
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<n0toose>
re riscv64 (i am not sure if it's customary to tag people directly), but what am i expected to see when running the command in the documentation?
<n0toose>
i got some large OpenSBI output in my terminal and a QEMU window telling me that the "Guest has not initialized the display (yet)" - whereas I expected something like graphical output. I compiled u-boot (v2024.04-rc4) using qemu-riscv64_defconfig. Is this to be expected, or did I do something wrong?
<n0toose>
I'm trying to improve the docs on this as I'm finding myself falling in traps as a person that is not 100% experienced with doing this kind of stuff and is trying to learn, so I'm trying to get it right :D
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<nephele>
n0toose: do you see the serial output of qemu? does it say something?
<nephele>
also, in this case it is fine to mention the name of who you mean ;)
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<Anarchos>
is there a tutorial for iconomatic ?
<n0toose>
alrighto, pinging x512[m] ^^
<augiedoggie>
the user guide has some good information on how to use it, but i wouldn't call it a tutorial
<x512[m]>
n0toose: I posted a link above how to run Haiku riscv64 in QEMU.
<n0toose>
will read more carefully, thanks
<OscarL>
Anarchos: I asked for a video tutorial for IOM a few days ago. zard suggested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqq5Yi7bXFk (in German, but you can use auto-translation of auto-generated subtitles, if needed :-D)
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] kallisti5 dfe156d - dev-build/muon: add initial port + haiku patches. Needs more work
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<n0toose>
got it to work under u-boot: the trick was that i did not consider `smode`
<Anarchos>
kallisti5[m] what is muon ?
<kallisti5[m]>
c-based meson alternative. meson has a lot of requirements to run, which means bootstrapping things like libglvnd (our future opengl kit) have a bunch of requirements
<kallisti5[m]>
the idea is, add muon, use that instead.. and reduce the pre-requisites
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<phschafft>
a BMessage cannot hold an open file handle, correct?
<phschafft>
I mean it can hold like it's number, but not a reference that is safe to pass around.
<coolcoder613_32>
Good morning
<x512[m]>
phschafft: It can't.
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