<qwebirc41942>
Hi! First of all, thanks for making Haiku, it is a lot of fun! I have been trying to use Haiku for my research, and am generally able to do R and Emacs things really well. I have a beginner question: Is there a way to prevent applications stealing the ctrl+tab keyboard shortcut so I can switch windows even if Emacs is focused?
<botifico>
[haiku/infrastructure] nielx 5fa6f27 - Trac: downgrade pillow due to compatibility
<Begasus>
book one ... ;)
<coolcoder613>
Somebody stress-testing
<Begasus>
Too much to read :P
<coolcoder613>
I restarted the server
<coolcoder613>
reload
<Begasus>
It's working, congrats :) +1
<coolcoder613>
Begasus: Did it not pop up a dialog asking for a username?
<Begasus>
first page didn't mention setting a username :)
<Begasus>
it says, type your message
<Begasus>
no pupop
<coolcoder613>
When you press join, there should be a popup
<coolcoder613>
but i don't think that's implemented in Web+
* coolcoder613
goes to check
<Begasus>
ah, popup in Falkon works
<coolcoder613_32>
open a ticket?
<Begasus>
who, me?
<coolcoder613>
I don't have an account on trac
<Begasus>
webpositive has it's own repo iirc
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<Begasus>
at least one this morning ;) 100% tests passed, 0 tests failed out of 15
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<phschafft>
:)
<Begasus>
20% tests passed, 61 tests failed out of 76 (first run) got an idea why :)
<Begasus>
93% tests passed, 5 tests failed out of 76 (better) :)
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<andreasdr[m]>
Hi there.
<zard>
o/
<andreasdr[m]>
Juuuhuuu
<andreasdr[m]>
Hi Zard.
<Begasus>
Hi there too :)
<Begasus>
k, should I move the commands for gpgme to a seperate tools package? (wont to keep current version alive as it's needed and connected to Qt5), new version will be connected to Qt6
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<Begasus>
stupid typos ...
<cyrusbuilt>
mornin all
<Begasus>
noon cyrusbuilt :)
<Begasus>
1 of 27 tests failed for gpgme 1.23.2, let's see with the older one
<Begasus>
should look into it when I get around to it, but korli is also keeping an eye, he's better there :)
<Begasus>
anyway, same error on older version for gpgme, so should be good for now
<cyrus__>
I'm in the middle of debugging a mobile app. In particular, a React Native mobile app *cringe*
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<Begasus>
hmm ... Warning: POLICY WARNING: "/packaging/gpgme1.23/lib/libqgpgmeqt6.so.15" needs library "libQt6Core.so.6", but the package doesn't seem to declare that as a requirement
<Begasus>
maybe put this library in a seperate package?
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<Begasus>
Could not find a package configuration file provided by "QGpgme" (requested ... library hell) :)
<cyrus__>
Well dang
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<Begasus>
problem also is that the library isn't mentioned in other recipes where I "think" it should be
<cyrus__>
hmmmmm....
* zard
changes one line in haikuwebkit's source code, spends the next hour waiting for it to compile the change
<cyrus__>
zard: yikes!
<zard>
Almost all of the time is spent linking. Someday I'll have to see if some kind of caching can help
<Begasus>
not using ccache?
<Begasus>
not familiar with the setup there, but can speedup sometimes
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<zard>
Not right now. It might help
<zard>
The website says "Other types of compilations (multi-file compilation, linking, etc) will silently fall back to running the real compiler"
<zard>
So looks like it wouldn't speed up linking
<zard>
bbl
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<zard>
re
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<Begasus>
wb
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<Begasus>
back to ground zero :P
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<zard>
Yes, slowly but surely making progress
<mbrumbelow>
waddlesplash: Was reinstalling Haiku on my two Wifi 6 enabled Intel NUC's. Wifi 6 does not initialize. Do I need to install Wifi6 package separately or is this a bug?
<waddlesplash>
if it still does not work after a full-sync then it's a bug
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<zard>
Ah, ok, it crashed because something got freed too early. Probably from some code I wrote :P
<BrunoSpr>
hello all
<zard>
o/
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<mbrumbelow>
Probably a bug. Testing with older images to see when this occurred.
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<BrunoSpr>
Hi anyone an idea if the test driver (here: libuvc.so) is correct in this place: https://0x0.st/XrTp.png?
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<Borg>
howdy.. does anyone here is looking for very simple DVFS repo manager? :)
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<kallisti5[m]>
whispers korli what are you doing 👀
<kallisti5[m]>
the fact though he is getting a haiku builder qcow2 and booting it, then running actions inside of it though isn't super simple
<PulkoMandy>
Well it is if you use the setup korli is using
<PulkoMandy>
If you try to redo it from scratch, well, less easy :)
<waddlesplash>
kallisti5[m]: it's not very performant and there's time limits
<waddlesplash>
larger ports (even Qt or something like that) wouldn't be reasonable to build this way
<win8linux[m]>
So this can't be used with the web browser recipes then?
<win8linux[m]>
Oh, ok then.
<x512[m]>
It is also possible to build Haiku applications with cross-compiler ans sysroot.
<x512[m]>
s/ans/and/
<kallisti5[m]>
waddlesplash: i mean, we could pay for enterprise runners... or do on-demand runners
<waddlesplash>
sure. but ultimately we need more control than standard Actions would allow
<waddlesplash>
something has to do dependency solving and repo builds
<waddlesplash>
replacing the runners would not be too hard honestly
<waddlesplash>
inside buildmaster
<waddlesplash>
it's all the other stuff that's not so easy
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<kallisti5[m]>
I was babbling about doing github runners on haiku self-hosted haiku vm's, but this is a lot more elegant
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
hello everyone
<zard>
o/
<Generic>
Nice to meet you everybody, sorry to interrupt if your conversation. I'm kindof interested in doing the multiple monitors app_server this summer through GSoC, since I think operating systems are really cool.
<kallisti5[m]>
Generic: hello! The multiple-monitors project is pretty complex. Essentially you'll need a design a forward-looking architecture which will work with 3d rendering and a potential drm / dri compatibility library someday
<Generic>
That sounds like alot of fun.
<kallisti5[m]>
x512 and waddlesplash would be great sources of data on that
<Generic>
I'll see if I can talk to them.
<waddlesplash>
kallisti5[m]: eh, not really, to be honest
<waddlesplash>
the biggest challenge is just modifying app_server
<Generic>
I've been looking through it but I get the sense that I'm going to be reading awhile before I really start to understand anything much.
<kallisti5[m]>
waddlesplash: sure, but BScreen needs to change too?
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
kallisti5: I'm currently working on the Xfs project for this summer through GSOC
<waddlesplash>
kallisti5[m]: yes, but the accelerant API can just be hacked around initially
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<kallisti5[m]>
waddlesplash: true, but hacked around in a way which would later work with a dri / drm compat layer :-)
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<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
Actually i have uploaded my proposal on the Mailing list. Can you take a look at it.
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
suggestions are welcome
<zard>
Generic: Indeed, that will likely be the case. Let me guess that documentation is lacking as well?
<Begasus>
kallisti5[m], keep thinking there is a bug on my screen ...
<Begasus>
[18:52] <kallisti5[m]> ❤️
<zard>
Now you have two bugs :P
<Begasus>
Yep, no only 1 :P
<Begasus>
now*
<Generic>
zard: My preference is generally to read through code to understand what's going on, so I'm hoping any lack of docs won't be an issue.
* Begasus
hopes OscarL is ok, they even mentioned the heat here on the stations
<zard>
Generic: Heh, ok. Anyway, when you manage to figure it out, it would be useful to have it documented for others
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<zard>
Though, that's just a suggestion. I'm not involved in picking GSoC contributers at all, anyway :P
<Begasus>
would be nice to have dual-screen (with external HDMI screen) :D
<Begasus>
double the workspaces ... hmmmm
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<zard>
Which raises the question, if you switch workspaces on one screen, should it switch workspaces on the other? :^)
<PulkoMandy>
Yes
<Begasus>
My thought would be how to switch to workspace 13 :D
<PulkoMandy>
This was discussed and decided 10 or 15 years ago :)
<zard>
Wow! Now that's an old decision
<Begasus>
written on stone tables ;)
<PulkoMandy>
Yes, and I don't even think multiple displays is such a complicated thing. There are a lot of impacted parts in the code (driver, accelerant api, app_server, interface kit, screen preferences, probably some other apps as well), so there is a lot to be done, but the tasks are rather well defined
<PulkoMandy>
If tou don't go with "well, I should also do 3D acceleration at the same time", that is (don't listen to people who try o get you to do that :D )
<Begasus>
heh
<zard>
PulkoMandy: Do you do anything special to speed up the linking of haikuwebkit? They tend to take around 1 hour for me :/
<zard>
Done compiling! :)
<Begasus>
1 hour isn't that bad I guess zard, given the size of that source ;)
<x512[m]>
PulkoMandy: Multiple display support and 3D acceleration are actually related to each other.
<x512[m]>
Both need accelerant API rework.
<zard>
For the first compile, I'm ok with 8 hours. But it's annoying to have to wait an hour after making a small change to test it
<zard>
Some day, hopefully, I'll get a better way figured out
<x512[m]>
And if ignore 3D acceleration when implementing multiple display support, accelerant API rework should be done twice.
<zard>
For now, I've solved the crashing with MiniBrowser (part of haikuwebkit) :)
<x512[m]>
3D acceleration-capable display output works in very different way compared to current accelerant API.
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<x512[m]>
First it assume you can allocate arbitrary GPU VRAM blocks and assign it as screen framebuffer. Second it should allow to change multiple properties atomically (atomic modesetting). Third it should fire interrupts in buffer flip.
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<cyrus__>
{ in my best homer simpson voice } mmmmmmmmm..... multi-display..... mmmmm.....
<PulkoMandy>
x512[m]: Let's get app_seraer to support multiple displays and the user sioe api done. This part is independant of all this. Call the accelerant api neeoed for this a hack instead of a redesign if you want, and we can rework it later. This allows to split the problem in two and make some progress on at least one of the parts
<PulkoMandy>
zard: What I know about build optimization for webkit is already in the webkit readme.It may not be fully up to date. I just do other things while webkit is building
<x512[m]>
PulkoMandy: Not really fully independent. For example how to handle screens with different refresh rate?
<zard>
PulkoMandy: Ok, thanks
<x512[m]>
There are a discussion global framebuffer vs multiplexed screens vs independent graphics logic on each screen.
<PulkoMandy>
x512[m]: Let's do nothing about this at first and do a simple first step: getting something shown on two displays
<PulkoMandy>
I am tired of endless discussions about the perfect api and no progress on the code being made
<x512[m]>
Already done with test_app_server, no?
<x512[m]>
The only thing stopping to have output to multiple physical screens is a lack of accelerant API support.
<PulkoMandy>
If someone wants to work on this for GSoC, let's define a scope they have a chance of completing
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<x512[m]>
Redesigning accelerant API multiple times and porting GPU drivers each time is also a possible solution.
<x512[m]>
There are obviously no chance to get non/mirrored output to multiple screens if there no driver API for that.
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) If you want multiple screens in Haiku, you can use a VM and specify a very big virtual screen size, then use VNC to display it on some other operating system that has multiple monitor support. Clunky, but it works.
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<Borg>
hmmm
<Borg>
does Haiku have multiple desktops already?
<Begasus>
They are called "Workspaces" Borg
<Begasus>
you can switch them with Alt-Fn
<B2IA>
(AGMS) It does have multiple screens, sort of multiple desktops. Alt-Fn switches between them, can be different resolutions too.
<Borg>
Begasus: right :)
<Borg>
ok thx.. I remembered right then
<Begasus>
already since BeOS era :)
<Borg>
I never ever used BeOS :) so entire GUI in Haiku is a bit weird to me...
<Borg>
Im on Win2003 atm..
<Borg>
but I like the lightweightness of Haiku..
<Borg>
and it have my fevorite oldschool compiler ;) gcc2.95 :D
<Begasus>
heh
<Begasus>
and here we are trying to move forward :P
<Borg>
moving forward is ok.. if its done correctly.. moving forward just for puprose of moving is crap.
<Borg>
I hate bloatware.. I hate pointless changes
<Begasus>
I like the challenge there :)
<Borg>
chalenges... A lot of them ahead of me...
<Borg>
bloody Y2038 for example.. luicky.. there is still quite some times
<Borg>
why the hell they made UNIX TS signed int....
<Habbie>
to represent timestamps before 1970
<Habbie>
is my best guess anyway
<Habbie>
if it was unsigned it would only buy us another 68 years anyway
<Borg>
Habbie: yeah.. but its useless imo..
<Borg>
if you need to have dates < 1970.. just make dedicated date storage to handle nearly arbitrary dates..
<Borg>
for timestamps.. FS timestamps.. etc, unsigned looks perfect.
<Borg>
unly 68 years? :) looks good enough
<Habbie>
that's what they thought in 1975, eh
<Borg>
yeah...
<Borg>
similar to IPv4 classes..
<Habbie>
well, those are gone
<Borg>
looked as good idea early days, then they changed it
<Borg>
EXT2/EXT3 gonner too
<Borg>
I need to peak at XFS..
<Habbie>
peek?
<Borg>
yeah, how they store timestamps
<Begasus>
done for today ...
<Habbie>
night Begasus!
<Begasus>
n8 Habbie :)
<Begasus>
cu peeps!
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<Borg>
I recently made branch for my little DVFS tool... switched from 64bit filesizes / 32 bit TS to 48bit / 48bit
<Borg>
good enough for my needs..
<Borg>
im not going to store single files larger than 256TB anyway ;)
<gordonjcp>
Borg: but how are you going to save your 8K uncompressed scan of The Seven Samurai?
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<Borg>
hehe.. that one does NOT need to go into DVFS really.. not like im going to do movie editing :)
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<gordonjcp>
Borg: I'd love to edit video in Haiku
<Borg>
hmm, I think I saw some apps for this today.. I done a peek at Depot Haiku.. upading my old Haiku Install on VM :)
<Borg>
s/upading/updating/
<Borg>
I was also suprising seeing quite a bit of games ported..
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) Nope, no KDEnlive video editor port for Haiku.
<Anarchos>
hello
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<coolcoder613_32>
Good morning
<gordonjcp>
Borg: there's OpenShot, which is quite bad
<cyrus__>
B2IA: Not yet. Looks like Begasus working on one though.
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<gordonjcp>
I try kdenlive every now and again
<gordonjcp>
I should probably try to stick with it for more than ten minutes before giving up on it
<gordonjcp>
but it seems to lack pretty basic functionality
<coolcoder613_32>
There is Medo
<bitigchi[m]>
Proper video editing on Haiku is still years away
<bitigchi[m]>
And about Medo… I appreciate the sentiment but the interface is f-ugly
<coolcoder613_32>
Where can I open an issue for Web+?
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<gordonjcp>
coolcoder613_32: again, rather like OpenShot and KDEnlive, it rather misses out on the whole "being able to edit video" thing
<gordonjcp>
there are currently no open-source video editors
<gordonjcp>
there are some media players that allow you to add silly effects and badly-rendered text onto clips, and combine clips together
<coolcoder613_32>
don't talk to me, i know nothing about video editing
<gordonjcp>
I should try cutting some video in UltraDV
<gordonjcp>
given that it's the same age as one of my camera
<gordonjcp>
*cameras
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<gordonjcp>
okay
<gordonjcp>
UltraDV crashed Haiku so hard it crashed qemu in a way that is now preventing one of my monitors from working
<gordonjcp>
so that's fun
<cyrus__>
whoa
<gordonjcp>
incidentally the normal media player does a not half bad job of playing back interlaced DV files
<Borg>
gordonjcp: wonder... why I joined this channel for , eh? :)
<Borg>
My OS is ending.. slowly..
<FreeFull>
gordonjcp: Hope the XP computer doesn't have any sort of internet connection
<gordonjcp>
Borg: one of our suppliers just switched off their Win2k3 servers, leaving us with some "issues" surrounding domain controllers, SMB shares and so on
<gordonjcp>
FreeFull: yes and no
<gordonjcp>
FreeFull: they're networked up to a few thousand other machines, but they don't have a live internet connection
<Borg>
gordonjcp: ugh :) scary stuff
<Borg>
I never ever liked domain shit.. SMB.. etc
<gordonjcp>
Borg: nothing you can't hack round with a bit of batch file magic and judicious use of subst and so on
<Borg>
all that have so many holes.. like french cheese
<gordonjcp>
I actually have a couple of Win 7 machines running in qemu VMs on a server
<gordonjcp>
you can get to them with Apache Guacamole
<gordonjcp>
qemu runs its display adaptor as a VNC server
<Borg>
I remember I had one of my server running Win2003 at company. when wanna cry hit us
<Borg>
it was only box that stayed alive :)
<gordonjcp>
we patched ~400 machines for WannaCry
<Borg>
I didnt had any patches
<Borg>
other Win2003 or XP died
<gordonjcp>
none of them were actually vulnerable, the bit that responds to Wannacry is not in that build
<gordonjcp>
we'll be updating to Windows 10 in time for it to go EOL, probably
<Borg>
ugh...
<gordonjcp>
that said it's Win 10 IoT edition which is in support until 2035
<Borg>
I hate it w/ passion
<Borg>
for me.. Windows ended on Win2003...
<gordonjcp>
I will likely have retired by then
<Borg>
Win7 or Win2008 R2 wasnt that bad.. but already had it annoyances
<gordonjcp>
or gone on a shooting rampage
<Borg>
:D
<gordonjcp>
or, maybe both
<Borg>
im happy.. I never actually had to be windows admin.. tought job
<gordonjcp>
let's see
<gordonjcp>
I think I have a Win2k8 server set up
<gordonjcp>
I can actually stand up IIS on it and serve it up over the Interwebs
<Borg>
it wont get p0wned right away? ;)
<gordonjcp>
you can try
<Borg>
hehe ;)
<Borg>
Win2008 have pretty decent FW..
<gordonjcp>
there may be some IIS exploit
<Borg>
on Win2003 I run WIPFW (Win32 port of FreeBSD IPFW)
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<cyrus__>
Running macOS 14.2 on my work computer, Haiku on my OptiPlex, triple boot MacOS 10.5.8, MacOS 9.2.2, and MorphOS 3.17 on my G4 MDD, Amiga Forever on my RPi 400, and Linux Mint on everything else.
<Borg>
thats a lot of stuff :)
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<cyrus__>
Got a chromebook somewhere around here too somewhere (with the Linux dev stuff turned on of course)
<cyrus__>
And I run SerenityOS in a VM on my linux server
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<gordonjcp>
okay time to flip it around
<gordonjcp>
time to install Haiku on this desktop (or, one of its drives!)
<gordonjcp>
and then run Ubuntu in qemu
<cyrus__>
Now yer talkin!
<coolcoder613_32>
I've got Haiku on all my x86-compatible PCs made after the year 2000
<coolcoder613_32>
(all 3 of them)
<cyrus__>
I got CP/M 2.2 working on one of my retro machines. It boots fine on a motherboard of my own design but then starts doing some weird stuff. MBasic80 just completely locks the whole thing up as soon as it launches. I assume it's in an issue in my virtual I/O engine.
<gordonjcp>
oh shit
<coolcoder613_32>
Besides those I have a M1 MBA, a 1999 laptop, and a raspi
<gordonjcp>
I just booted qemu using a physical disk, but it's the disk the host pc is currently booted off
<gordonjcp>
this isn't going to end well
<coolcoder613_32>
I've done that a few times
<cyrus__>
I love those raspis. I have one in my arcade, one in my HTPC and the aforementioned RPi 400
<gordonjcp>
I've done my backups
<coolcoder613_32>
Just don't boot into the same OS
<gordonjcp>
I guess, that'd be an RPi build of Haiku these days
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<coolcoder613_32>
.and there's this desktop, which is 32-bit with a dual-core pentium at 2Ghz, has 3G of RAM and runs Haiku almost exclusively
<coolcoder613_32>
*...and
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<gordonjcp>
coolcoder613_32: I love your enthusiasm, but I'd hate to have your electric bill
<gordonjcp>
we have all this cool stuff at work, massive SAN bays with 48 drives and stuff
<coolcoder613_32>
I don't use them all at once ;)
<gordonjcp>
a few years ago I'd have snapped that up and used it in my home lab, but, well
<gordonjcp>
electricity is like 17p/kWh these days
<coolcoder613_32>
At the moment only my desktop and rpi are running
<gordonjcp>
coolcoder613_32: interesting you comment on the display not loading up correctly with implausible scan frequencies
<gordonjcp>
coolcoder613_32: was that in "Real BeOS" or Haiku?
<coolcoder613_32>
Real BeOS
<gordonjcp>
coolcoder613_32: a long long time ago in Haiku on real hardware I had display problems which turned out to be the Intel driver not waiting long enough before programming one of the video PLLs
<coolcoder613_32>
But I managed to find a BeOS driver for my graphics card, which fixed that
<gordonjcp>
it was trying to do something like 48Hz vsync and 90-odd kHz hsync
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<cyrus__>
I really want a good SGI workstation to run IRIX on. I wish I could have afforded one of those in the late 90s / early 2000s
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<gordonjcp>
right here's a question that's bothering me
<gordonjcp>
how do I get Haiku to just automatically connect to a known wifi SSID?
<gordonjcp>
it works just fine if I open up Networks and select it