<Calisto>
Heyyyy I needed some advice 😅 so thought of asking it here
<Calisto>
I'm trying to learn the QUERY API and all of its details.
<Calisto>
I spent some time reading through the book "Practical FileSystem Design" by the creator of the Be OS filesystem and read through the chapters of importance about how the query works and everything
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<Calisto>
So I was thinking of a small implementation before trying it out for filtering queries by a specific directory
<Calisto>
Like PulkoMandy said, it's not part of the attributes... So is it possible to do something like first we execute the query... Then we loop through while executing the GetNextEntry() in order to get the BEntry corresponding to each file... Then use the getParent() fun
<Calisto>
Or rather the GetPath() function and remove the leaf name from there and compare it to the original directory?
<Calisto>
Does this work?
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<nephele>
well, from my perspective I only have a location, and no direction
<Calisto>
Oh okay OscarL I'll look into that code then
<Calisto>
Thanks a lot
<OscarL>
np :-)
<Calisto>
I finally understand how this Query system works now xD
<Calisto>
Or atleast a decent ish understanding ig xD
<nephele>
Calisto: you broke my vision!
<nephele>
The timestamp for your message sais "[-1436748000:4363]"
<nephele>
How did this happen xD
<Calisto>
Woah xD
<Begasus>
it's not broken here :P
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<Calisto>
Also I know this might be a pretty bad question
<Calisto>
But like since I'll have to build live queries I'll have to implement the setTarget functions and everything
<Calisto>
So like there in the darkwyrm docs
<Calisto>
It's just mentioned that it's best to implement some sort of a synchronisation lock
<Calisto>
So that an update while reading the results of a query don't mess things up
<Calisto>
Would this be something simple like keep some sort of state variable or is it something more complicated that I need to learn?
<nephele>
A lock is usually really "just" something like a state variable indeed. Get results -> lock it -> read results -> unlock it
<Calisto>
Oh okay cool that makes sense then
<nephele>
then in the getting results phase don't modify the results table while locked is true, wait for it to be unlocked
<Calisto>
Something like a private variable which gets locked and unlocked
<Calisto>
And corresponding to that we do the updates
<nephele>
if this is the best "performing" thing, i don't know. Don't actually know the semantics of live querries from an api perspective :D
<nephele>
yes pretty much
<Calisto>
Oh okay that sounds good
<nephele>
just a variable to indicate "I'm busy with this ressource"
<Calisto>
Is there something more that I should do for now to prepare for the BQuery thing.... I'm running a few small C++ files to test things out
<nephele>
maybe OscarL has more hints for you in that regard ;) I have no idea
<Calisto>
Like i learnt everything regarding how the filesystem works (at a shallow level i suppose - not too deep either) and read the book on the API details
<Calisto>
Oh ok
<Calisto>
Thanks tho :)
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<Calisto>
Oh wow this haiku archive u sent me is the exact same implementation but the person who wrote this went a step even more further
<Calisto>
Its amazing how he/she thought of leaving space for future code as well.... Like woah ... That's mind bending for me xD
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<Calisto>
But this makes sense... It's the exact thing I needed for the folder filtering as well :)
<Calisto>
Thanks a lot OscarL
<OscarL>
Thanks to JackBarton (Stefano Ceccherini) for writting filtered query, and augiedoggie for fix in it :-)
<Calisto>
I just kind of have another lame doubt
<Calisto>
Why is it that in BeOS the path was never added as an attribute into the filesystem for all files... Considering that the query system solely works on attributes ?
<Calisto>
Was there some reason for this? I couldn't find a reason for it in the chapters that I read through and the others just seemed too heavy for me to get into at the moment.
<phschafft>
the attributes are a properties of the inode, the name is the property of the hardlink.
<OscarL>
"BFS: what's a hardlink" :-P
<Calisto>
Ohhh okay that makes sense
<Calisto>
I remember in the book they told that a hardlink is a pointer to the inode itself or something of that sort?
<phschafft>
yes.
<Calisto>
So i guess it isn't possible for the attributes to store a path then
<Begasus>
here he is again ... libkopete_oscar.so.1.0.0 :P
<Calisto>
Yah that makes sense now
<phschafft>
the hardlink is the object in the directory that links name with inode.
<phschafft>
and the inode is the actual 'file'.
<Calisto>
Right right
<phschafft>
so every name is a hardlink.
<Begasus>
OscarL, so your nick is faulty, should be -lOscar? ;)
<phschafft>
which naturally includes symlinks. a symlink is an inode so if you access it via a name it is a hard link that points to an inode of type symlink.
<Calisto>
So the inode consists of the a few attributes that could be stored for quick access as well as a link to each file's attributes directory as well right?
<OscarL>
Begasus: does that that library generates non-sense code and text? (if not... it is not named after me :-P)
<Calisto>
So then there's no way that we can store the path of the file in its attributes ... So i guess the only way to get filtering is through the way is executing a normal query and then filtering it
<phschafft>
(and even if some filesystems claim not to support hardlinks it is much better to think of them as supporting exactly one hardlink per inode, in contrast to supporting a higher number per inode)
<Begasus>
remains to be seen OscarL :P
<phschafft>
Calisto: the inode stores things like ownership, timestamps, block allocation (-> actual content), ...
<phschafft>
everything that is NOT about the name.
<Calisto>
Right everything about the file
<Calisto>
But not part of its contents
<Calisto>
Basically all its metadata right?
* OscarL
writes a .sh that for each file, adds its full path as an attribute. Surely it will end well, and consistent over time! :-P
<Calisto>
Ill definitely give this a re-read again... i learnt all this yesterday night so it's mixing up a bit but that's okay I guess xD... But coming back to the query path.. for implementing the filtering... The best way to go ahead is the post-processing of the. Query results right?
<phschafft>
Calisto: the inode holds the content via block allocation (how that is done depends on the filesystem).
<phschafft>
basically think about the inode as a box in storage. it has the content, and it also has stuff written on it. most importantly it also has a number.
<phschafft>
and hardlinks are little index cards telling you the number of the thing by name.
<coolcoder613>
No, the box is hanging from a string, or sometimes multiple strings
<coolcoder613>
(hardlinks)
<Calisto>
So the block allocation could be dependent on different things as well right? Like I remember they discussed about indirect block allocation using intermediate additional blocks for extra filesize
<Calisto>
Oh that analogy makes way more sense
<phschafft>
also keep in mind that whenever you open a file you add a string, that is your file handle.
<phschafft>
which makes sure the box isn't dropped as long as it is open even if there are no hardlinks left.
<phschafft>
(this is commonly used for example for tempfiles. this way the OS takes care of removing them once your application doesn't need them anymore, even if your application crashes.)
<phschafft>
Calisto: yes. block allocation is a complex topic on it's own. how it is done depends on the filesystem, but also it's settings (for tunable filesystems), it's state (such as how full it is), ...
<Calisto>
Oh right right... It's like until all the links to that file are destroyed...the file is not deleted... And the temp files are handled by the OS
<Calisto>
So the Inode isnt cleared as long as there are links to it or am I going about it the wrong way?
<Calisto>
And the blocks aren't cleared till then right?
<Calisto>
So the moment it drops to 0 the OS deletes the file
<phschafft>
yes. one the inode is deleted (that is the difference: delete is about the inode, unlink is about the hardlink :) the blocks are freed.
<Calisto>
Ill go through that chapter again once I finish editing the proposal
<Calisto>
So the inode and block clearance happens at the same time
<phschafft>
yes.
<Calisto>
Cool
<phschafft>
you can also think about it as the box being emptied, all the lables and stickers removed, and then the box goes back into a unused list of inodes.
<phschafft>
(the inode number may be reused, and some filesystems pre-allocate the inodes a big list, so there is a fixed number of inodes on those filesystems)
<phschafft>
(which would basically translate to something like 'pick any empty box when you want to store something')
<Calisto>
And that is stored on the superblock right?
<Calisto>
Like the list of empty inodes
<Calisto>
And blocks and things like that?
<phschafft>
the counters are generally in the superblock.
<Calisto>
Right
<phschafft>
the list itself is too big to be stored there (you might have several milion inodes in a filesystem. at least one per file ;)
<phschafft>
for example on my root filesystem on my little box here at work:
<phschafft>
Inodes: Total: 7815168 Free: 7009070
<phschafft>
which means the filesystem holds 806098 unique files.
<Calisto>
Righttt
<Calisto>
Ohhh yah it's impossible for it to store
<Calisto>
But then where is the list of free blocks stored?
<Calisto>
That would be stored on the superblock only right?
<phschafft>
if a filesystem has a list of free blocks (not all do) the list is just another fundamental structure on the filesystem.
<Calisto>
Ohh ok
<Calisto>
Thanks so much phschafft
<phschafft>
for example FAT doesn't have such a list. so basically whenever you need a new block the driver needs to search for one (make a list of all blocks, then remove all blocks that are in use by any file, the rest is what is free).
<phschafft>
this reduces on-disk size, but naturally is very slow and/or requires RAM to hold a list while the filesystem is mounted.
<Calisto>
Ohhh okay
<phschafft>
other filesystems just have a bitmap for that. basically a big list of all blocks with one bit per block.
<Calisto>
But in systems that there is a list
<Calisto>
Searching the bitmap takes constant time right?
<Calisto>
Or atleast that's what was written
<phschafft>
I would say it takes as long as you need to find the first empty-status bit.
<Calisto>
In the book?
<phschafft>
then there are filesystems that have a list, so the list is always changing size (in contrats to the bitmap).
<Calisto>
Ohhh ok
<phschafft>
and I think I once saw a filesystem that basically has one special inode that takes up all the free space. whenever a block is needed that inode is cut short of a block and the block is then used for extending the file in question.
<Calisto>
Woah
<phschafft>
I'm not sure which book you talk about. I'm talking very generally here.
<Calisto>
I was reading the book Practical FileSystem Design
<Calisto>
On Be OS
<phschafft>
I had a quick look at that regarding attributes and something else I think.
<Calisto>
But I'll definitely sit and learn more about this in general
<phschafft>
my point is that basically all filesystems work the same way on a medium level. and the rest is implementation details.
<phschafft>
such as when a filesystem 'supports no hardlinks' you can think of it having a limit of one hardlink per inode. and you'll find that everything else keeps holding true when you put it that way.
<phschafft>
how for example free block lists work is really only relevant to the driver. it may be fun to read. but in the end the driver is the only thing interacting with it.
<Calisto>
Btw apart from the GSoC things... Which is currently my lead focus.... I was looking into different fields to get into with respect to operating systems... I couldn't find much of a roadmap towards OSes in general and my university does it pretty far from now... I thought it would be a good place to ask how do I get started with OSes in general ?
<Calisto>
Ohh that makes sense
<Calisto>
So at a grassroot level it is the same
<Calisto>
In one way or the other
<phschafft>
I would say that this channel is a good channel to go and dive into things and explore.
<phschafft>
but naturally things need to be taken with a grain of salt.
<phschafft>
most people so my understanding, have a mental model that everything is special and just don't see the general concepts (man made of physically inherit).
<phschafft>
so if you ask in one channel and then go to another they will both tell you a very different story, make it sound like it is very different. but in fact it's just different in details.
<Calisto>
Oh that makes sense
<Calisto>
So any advice on how a newbie would start?
<phschafft>
anywhere. :)
<phschafft>
it's all an interconnected web of topics, so as long as you don't have a specific goal any step is a good step.
<Calisto>
Oh okay
<Calisto>
I mean i tried picking up some part of the OS to start
<Calisto>
I guess in alignment with the GSoC project
<Calisto>
I could try in the future to start with the filesystem i g
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
Calisto: you can also dive in kernal development too
<aazam[m]>
OscarL: OscarL Thanks I see it now. The file next to it is where the "ToDO" changes are to be made. Each file is under a folder as well, what's the significance of it? Is it just to make it easier for visualisation?
<phschafft>
Calisto: sadly I'm a person who hardly uses books to learn things. so I must say said book is likely the only one ever I had a look in on filesystems. ;)
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<Calisto>
My project is going decently well I think... I have to make changes to the proposal and get more acquainted with styling guidelines and probably create a proper app with the way it's split into different files like the standard apps that come with Haiku.. Apart from that, I think it's going well (hopefully xD)
<OscarL>
aazam[m]: you are just looking at a search engine. It does not readly reflects the Haiku source code structure.
<phschafft>
(and I think it is a good one. just that it's content should not be confused (by it's title) to be universal in the sense of other filesystems using the same or even similar data structures. however they often use the same highlevel functions :)
<Calisto>
Yah PriyanshuGupta[m].. Ive heard about kernel development but is it extremely hard to get into as a person who doesn't know much?
<Calisto>
Wait which book are u talking about phschafft ?
<Calisto>
Oh thanks a lot OscarL for the link btw .. I'll go through it once
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
hello Begasus 🖐️
<aazam[m]>
OscarL: Got it. I was confused since in the gsoc contributor faq it pointed to those pages for the ToDo tasks
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<phschafft>
Calisto: the one about bfs.
<Calisto>
Oh okay the one I'm reading right now
<Calisto>
Yup it seemed to be beginner friendly in the chapters that I read
<OscarL>
aazam[m]: perhaps a list of tickets marked as (easy) would be better in your case? (as they have more context info than those plain ToDo in the sources)...
<Begasus>
OscarL ... runtime_loader: Cannot open file liboscar.so.1 (needed by /sources/kopete-v23.08.5/build/tests/protocols/oscar/buffertest): No such file or directory
<Begasus>
tsss
<Begasus>
90% tests passed, 2 tests failed out of 20 (not bad, these 2 crash though)
<OscarL>
yeah... same error with my head: brain? no such organ.
<Begasus>
heh
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<Begasus>
when found it works though ;) Totals: 9 passed, 0 failed, 0 skipped, 0 blacklisted, 0ms
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<Begasus>
well, kept me busy for a bit, OscarL, retired :P "kopete is close to getting last-rited"
<OscarL>
Could return as a zombie. Better cut of the head.
<dovsienko>
hey folks. the "decorator" and "controllook" inputss in the Appearance configuration window always show "default" only, is there something that needs to be installed to see more options there?
<Begasus>
dovsienko, haiku-extras iirc
<dovsienko>
Begasus: thanks, let me try...
<dovsienko>
Begasus: it adds "Flat" and "Be", the effect of decorator is obvious, but do you remember what ControlLook means?
<Begasus>
the control look etc are already in "haiku extras", you need thememanager etc to change ui
<dovsienko>
okay, I figured it means the UI controls, but the change does not apply to the existing windows
<Begasus>
tabs were too bright to my liking in the dark theme
<Begasus>
restart Tracker/Deskbar
<dovsienko>
here's an idea for the summer of code students: in the configuration dialog add a comment to say "haiku_extras" would need to be installed, and another to clarify which changes apply immediately and which don't
<Begasus>
Some apps need a relaunch (Falkon amongst a few needed it here)
<Begasus>
most should be explained already on the github page, not sure if it's included in the UserGuide ...
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<OscarL>
Mmm, "Use state format" (Pe/BeIDE). Somewhat I doubt we need the latter any longer.
<zard>
German I know uses commas for decimal points
<aazam[m]>
Interesting
<aazam[m]>
I'll keep this in mind
<Begasus>
Dutch too
<cyrusbuilt>
Hmmmm.... I need to revisit GitQlient when I have some time. I'm happy to see someone has been maintaining that port since I first PR'ed a recipe for it. Current build is super-squirrely on my machine though. Keeps crashing/hanging.
<OscarL>
Granted, BPoint::PrintToStream() might not need any of that (as it is mostly used for debugging and such) but... better keeps those things in mind aazam[m] :-D
<aazam[m]>
OscarL: Right, I picked it up for now as it's related to the Interface Kit. I'll see what I can do
<zard>
Hmm, maybe I can find some tickets related to Icon-O-Matic that are easy
<zard>
That way we don't run out of easy tickets :)
<zard>
One question is, how easy should easy be?
<OscarL>
Is there any video tutorial on how to use IOM? because even if I can't draw a circle with a compass, IOM makes me feel dumber than usual :-D
<zard>
In my experience, it was confusing until you read the text tutorialH
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<OscarL>
buh! reading? what am I? a nerd? :-P
<zard>
Don't worry, shouldn't be too hard :-D
* OscarL
hides his mountain of books that he has't touched in ages :-/
<OscarL>
similar thing should apply for most apps, IMO.
<OscarL>
or at least the save dialog should allow to edit the path on a text input box.
<zard>
Yes, that would be nice
<OscarL>
bonus points if the edit box uses clickeable "/bread / crumb / styles"
<zard>
The suggestion was accepted! That ticket has now been marked as easy :)
<OscarL>
Good guy PulkoMandy lurking from the side bench :-P
<OscarL>
ah, missed zard's comment there. welp, good guy Adrian anyway :-)
<OscarL>
*Adrien
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<OscarL>
My Pe is BeIDE free, and half-way there into full Paladin integration. Let's call it a day.
<OscarL>
Wonder how difficult (for someone like me) would be to add some "per-language" settings to Pe. (tab vs space, etc).
<nephele>
Wondering why you would integrate PE to Paladin, and not Koder :P
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<OscarL>
Because I use Pe more than Koder, Paladin already responded to the "Bring to front" and "make project" BMessages.
<OscarL>
nothing else. I'm not a Paladin user.
<nephele>
Koder+Palain has the potential to be a much better IDE than any Single window aproach could ever be :D
<nephele>
I don't really use Pe, I've never managed to get to like it. Koder only has some smaller shortcomings that can be resolved (bug with whitespace highlighting, better search and replace etc)
<OscarL>
The more things I've try... the more I end up using Pe. Will probably use Genio a lot more once it releases with python-lsp-server support (don't want to compile it myself :-P).
<zard>
Looks like you're similar to me. I use Pe, and sometimes Genio. Maybe someday I'll try Koder
<Begasus>
Pe must have here (main editor) :)
<OscarL>
Koder looks nice, for sure, but can't dismiss Find dialog with ESC, and it is SLOW on big files. Sent me back to Pe.
<OscarL>
I do hate floating find/replace dialogs thou. and Pe sometimes drives me really nuts... but... seems hackable enough even for somone like me, so...
<Begasus>
right on that one OscarL! +1 drives me nuts sometimes too
<OscarL>
:-D
<Begasus>
specialy if you got multiple files open, never know where to expect it :)
<OscarL>
One thing thou... Pe has BY FAR the best Lout support on the planet. (yes, I did it myself :-P)
<Begasus>
heh
<OscarL>
Begasus: same experience, yeah.
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<Begasus>
Elisa-23.08.5 https://0x0.st/HhWS.5.png (notice the menu on the right using transparancy?)
<OscarL>
Heh, I still like what I wrote about Pe's Lout support in 2006: "Lout is to TeX/LaTex like BeOS/Haiku is to Windows/Linux" :-D
<nephele>
OscarL: yes, floating find/replace is not nice. And the slowing on large files (caused by: highlight trailing whitespace) is not nice either
<OscarL>
Pe is also mighty fast to start up, even on my old, slow, PCs. Always a plus.
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<toydragon>
dang this thing flies with a network cable
<nephele>
OscarL: Koder isn't? maybe something to improve still :D
<nephele>
i'm annoyed at some smaller bugs like Koder crashing if you do "Koder not/existant/dir". Or it creating files if i "Koder file.<tab>" and it creating "file." in the dir while .cpp and .h were available :D
<nephele>
maybe I should work a bit on Koder
<OscarL>
nephele: Pe beat the crap out of koder down here last time I've tried it, at least. Guess I should try again before re-affirming my convitions :-)
<nephele>
(and fix it where it falls short :D)
<toydragon>
i caused a kernel panic last nite :D
<toydragon>
i rebooted with GIMP open lol
<nephele>
ToyDragon: cool :D
<nephele>
reported it? ;)
<OscarL>
Also, I do plan to fix my BeBookFetch extension for Pe, even if for just my personal use (as it will require a custom/fixed "Be Book Bookmarks.zip")
<toydragon>
nephele haven't been able to replicate it!
<nephele>
ToyDragon: it should potentially still be in your system log to report it
<Begasus>
reboot ... would be nice if R1B5 came out with the leaking mem fix :)
<Begasus>
biab
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<toydragon>
Day three of using haiku.... time to learn about the system log
<OscarL>
ToyDragon: /var/log/syslog and possibly /var/log/syslog.old
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<nephele>
OscarL: just kind of "meh" that effort is split on severall editors instead of working to make one great
<nephele>
especially if it's only 1 or 2 pain points
<OscarL>
nephele: I understand, but... I really don't see */me* doing any work on Koder or anything else.
<OscarL>
I only touch Pe because I have been toying with it for 2 decades :-P
<OscarL>
turbo on Terminal, Pe as light weight editor, Genio or something like that for an IDE. I'm covered.
<toydragon>
Don't see what happened in either of those files.
<toydragon>
hm
<toydragon>
a shame they don't have timestamps so i could more easily correlate
<toydragon>
oh well, next time it happens i can check right away now that i know they exist :3
<OscarL>
Pe has a "killer feature" thou... "Find difference" (and one that would be more usable, IMO, if something like this got merged: https://github.com/HaikuArchives/Pe/pull/85)
<OscarL>
ToyDragon: you can enable time stamps but changing a setting. Give me a sec.
<toydragon>
ayo
<toydragon>
that's awesome to hear
<OscarL>
~/config/settings/kernel/driver/kernel <<< in that file uncomment "syslog_time_stamps true"., after reboot, syslog should get timestamped.
<OscarL>
lots of other options to play with in that file as well.
<Begasus>
bbl
<toydragon>
doesn't exist.... ah, it's drivers not driver it appears
<zard>
bbl
<OscarL>
ToyDragon: sorry, I'm known to be a lousy typist (and have a terribly broken "English").
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<toydragon>
all good, i make typos all the time too
<toydragon>
reboot time!
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<toydragon>
ah, beautiful timestamps in logs now
<nephele>
OscarL: is that just "diff" in Pe?
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<HaikuUser>
Hello Guys
<toydragon>
tysm OscarL!
<nephele>
Honestly I'd be quite happy if some git stuff would be supported in Koder
<nephele>
showing the previous version and such
<OscarL>
nephele: yes, but you can also "edit" the diffs, as in... send a block of text from one side to the other.
<OscarL>
nephele: with "standard" Pe, just try using the "Search->Find differences..." menu item, select two files, hit the Refresh button, and you'll see why I like it.
<OscarL>
I just need to add that "Pe --diff file1 file2" to "/bin/lpe" :-)
<nephele>
I can't use Pe
<OscarL>
ToyDragon: better tethered, than not having an ethernet port :-( (/me sniffs in non working WiFi adapter :-P)
<Andreas0211>
with wine I can't open any application thats not are preinstalled with wine
<OscarL>
can't you open them from the command line?
<OscarL>
I'm pretty sure I ran shellcheck.exe with wine in Haiku at least 3 times.
<Andreas0211>
you mean CMD?
<Andreas0211>
or the Terminal in Haiku?
<OscarL>
Terminal in Haiku.
<Andreas0211>
what should i type?
<toydragon>
is there a way i can change the defualt shell?
<toydragon>
*default
<OscarL>
wine64, IIRC?
<toydragon>
i really like my zsh
<OscarL>
ToyDragon: pkgman install zsh, and then you can change your default shell....
<Andreas0211>
@oscarL thanks
<OscarL>
via /etc/password file, IIRC.
<toydragon>
OscarL i did the first part, i don't know the scond part -- i'm used to a tool called 'chsh' on the unix-likes i'm used to -- oh, passwd file!
<OscarL>
Andreas0211: sorry for not being more specific, I don't have my 64 bits install running at the moment :-(
<Andreas0211>
no problem
<OscarL>
ToyDragon: file is "/etc/passwd"
<OscarL>
you can also use a GUI tool... let me see if I can remember its name :-D
<nephele>
chsh on linux does "vi /etc/passwd" or vipw
<nephele>
on freeBSD it also rebuilds the database after saving
<nephele>
basically trying to prevent you from leaving the file in a broken state
<toydragon>
nephele not the chsh i'm used to, it gives me a small menu with a list of known shells, and an option to manually enter a path to another shell
<toydragon>
and then does the wrangling in the appropriate files after being provided that data
<OscarL>
ToyDragon: `pkgman install haikuutils`
<toydragon>
ty ty
<OscarL>
It installs 3 useful aps by x512[m]. The one called Users let's you change such stuff :-)
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<OscarL>
ToyDragon: AFAIK, we have (besides the default bash): zsh, xonsh, mksh, dash, and fish available for install.
<toydragon>
nice
<toydragon>
if we managed to get powershell working then i could make an excuse for using this for my job lmao
<OscarL>
apparently, we have a .net8 port, does that helps with PS ?
<toydragon>
I'll have to try and find out!
<nephele>
powershell is slow on windows, even moreso ported!
<OscarL>
you wanna see slow? try shellcheck.exe via Wine on Haiku :-D
<OscarL>
it was *ammusingly* slow (at least on my PC :-D)
<toydragon>
nephele I've actually been finding powershell to be surprisingly competent. It's a lot heavier than most shells for sure, and does take a bit longer to start up, but it's.... surprisingly useful for what it does. Also the modularity and plugin repo system inbuilt to it is kinda nice
<toydragon>
some bits are defo INCREDIBLY jank
<toydragon>
like for the one script i wrote that uses async loops, i had to turn a function i wrote into a text variable to pass it thru the async loop to be turned from text back into a function to make use of it fully lol
<toydragon>
But it does work, and solidly.
<nephele>
I'll replace shell at some point with something build for Haiku
<toydragon>
it's also a lot nicer to do stuff with it than to deal with the office 365 admin panels for mail management lol
<OscarL>
on Win, /me still rocks cmd.exe + clink + GoW
<toydragon>
ngl my fave feature of powershell is that it natively supports turning tabled outputs into CSV files.
<nephele>
microsoft product is nicer than some other microsoft product is a low bar
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<toydragon>
so many things i can turn into CSVs so i can use that data for other things it's GREAT
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<OscarL>
CPU getting closer to shutdown temp :-/ Oops!
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<OscarL>
Seems that compiling Xash3D is trying to halve the life of my CPU :-P
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<nosycat>
Oh, one of those apps.
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<OscarL>
I should prolly give the PC a big dust off soon too... but my piss-poor cooler surely ain't collaborating :-)
<nosycat>
Mood.
<OscarL>
turning CPU frec from 2.8 to 2.1.... allowed me to get a working .hpkg. all good :-)
<OscarL>
Mmm. Xash3D does NOT likes to be installed as a $HOME package, oh well, task for a different day.
<zard>
re
<Begasus>
re
<nosycat>
o/
<OscarL>
Sun to bright on the sky already... time to crawl back to my sarcophagus, errr... to take a nap :-P
<OscarL>
see you around, folks, have a good one!
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<Begasus>
Well seems kirigami for KF6 plays along better then on KF5
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<cyrusbuilt>
Damn.... I'm striking out all over the place today. PyCharm isn't working either. Executes and the main process shows up but no window ever appears and the process just sits there consuming 30% indefinitely
* Begasus
hides ...
<cyrusbuilt>
lol
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<zard>
I'm surprised that Haiku has PyCharm at all. I imagine it would be slow?
<cyrusbuilt>
GitQlient I can take a look at some time this week though.
<Begasus>
it's a bin package from upstream zard, same as NetBeans
* zard
is not sure what that means
<cyrusbuilt>
Pretty sure we have IntilleJ also? Had several mainstream apps get ported over in recent years. Getting really close to being able to use Haiku as a daily driver for work
<Begasus>
prebuild :)
<Begasus>
so not build on Haiku (afaik)
<cyrusbuilt>
*IntelliJ
<nosycat>
It's amazing that it works at all then.
<Begasus>
don't think they provide something for Haiku cyrusbuilt, so one would have to build that from scratch
<nephele>
Made a small patch to Koder to fix the text color for the statusView, now to get it to kapix somehow
<Begasus>
PR upstream <ducks>
<nephele>
what do you mean by that?
<Begasus>
source is at github I believe?
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<cyrusbuilt>
Begasus: For GitQlient? You're right. I spoke to the author about Haiku support. A few years ago I looked at the source (since its a Qt app) noticed that the only thing preventing it from working was a platform check that failed if it wasn't an OS it officially supported. So I made a recipe with a patch that included Haiku. He didn't want to officially support it (unfortunately) but didn't mind me doing it myself.
<cyrusbuilt>
I gotta test it next and see if it still works. Last time I used it, it was working fine though. But then again, so was pycharm.
<Begasus>
if it supports Qt well enough it shouldn't be too hard (and yes, not all want to go for official support, tried that with KDE) :)
<cyrusbuilt>
I offered to handle the Haiku testing and support code for him, he didn't bite. He wasn't a dick about it or anything, just didn't want to dedicate any more time or resources to it I guess.
<Begasus>
ah! didn't know there cyrusbuilt :)
<nephele>
Begasus: I made the patch locally
<Begasus>
can't get lucky all the time cyrusbuilt :)
<Begasus>
+1 nephele
<cyrusbuilt>
true true
<nephele>
that copperspice qt fork seems interesting
<Begasus>
but got a few patches upstreamed already to kde :)
<nephele>
not sure if the haiku support code can be reused
<cyrusbuilt>
Take a look at that readme. I may just have to reach back out to him and see if his stance has changed at all. Either way, that's an old build. Ima see if I can get things up-to-date and submit a PR to ports.
<cyrusbuilt>
Bruh.... yeah. I've been away way too long. I got sucked in to too many other projects and moved to another state. I got a lot of catching up to do.
<Begasus>
k, no update on IntelliJ yet
<Begasus>
heh
<cyrusbuilt>
IntelliJ does the same thing pycharm does. idea.sh runs and then the java process pegs a core and never does anything. Can't kill the team either. Have to reboot.
<Begasus>
eeps
<Begasus>
not good
<cyrusbuilt>
I'd say it's java issue in both cases
<nosycat>
It happened to me before. A process that would hang and keep the CPU busy, but couldn't be killed and would keep Haiku from shutting down.
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<nephele>
cyrusbuilt: I don't see haikuports listed
<cyrusbuilt>
The badge on his readme shows gets that table
<cyrusbuilt>
He's not listing *official* support or anything with that though.
<Begasus>
cyrusbuilt, you put it there ;)
<cyrusbuilt>
yeah.... he didn't use to have that badge though
<cyrusbuilt>
I was just a lil surprised to see it
<Begasus>
repology is one of my main sources when checking versions (and if haikuports is mentioned at all for some port) sometimes :)
<cyrusbuilt>
he's at least showing from his readme that there is a haiku port out there. more than we had before.
<Begasus>
biab ... dogs :)
<cyrusbuilt>
I get really excited when I see little things like that lol
<cyrusbuilt>
I was over-the-moon when someone finally ported git to MorpOS
<cyrusbuilt>
*MorphOS
<cyrusbuilt>
defo gotta install dark_style sometime this week too
<cyrusbuilt>
... starts making todo list
<nosycat>
I was happy to find both Fossil and Mercurial in HaikuDepot.
<nephele>
cyrusbuilt: ah you mean that list
<nephele>
but that really is just a mirror, it doesn't mean anything
<cyrusbuilt>
nephele: right. I'm just saying he didn't even used to have that badge showing those in his readme. I got a lil too stoked to see that _anything_ in that repo that mentioned haiku lol
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<cyrusbuilt>
ooooohhhhh we have nodejs20 now too?! Outstanding! Dang. Getting super close to being a daily driver. If Falkon supports running slack in browser (especially with webcam support), since we don't have support for electron apps yet, I can just about start using haiku for at least some of my work projects.
<cyrusbuilt>
I remember seeing some of the discussion about haiku support in electron years ago and they had like *zero* interest in it.
<nosycat>
Figures.
<cyrusbuilt>
electron is some bloated garbage anyway, but we use several apps at work that are built on it unfortunately
<cyrusbuilt>
VSCode and Slack being a couple of them
<cyrusbuilt>
Typically use the JetBrains IDEs for Java, Python, and C#
<nosycat>
If that's what you need, fair.
<zard>
I think our lack of chromium was one factor not wanting to do electron. The fear is that we would have to maintain a *huge* patchset to make it run
<cyrusbuilt>
zard: yeah thats valid
<cyrusbuilt>
I do a lot of fullstack web dev using various tech stacks and some C/C++ embedded work. Could prolly do a bunch of that in Pe or Koder I imagine though. But I've not looked into it yet.
<zard>
Or in vim ;)
<nosycat>
If not, there are more serious editors like CudaText.
<cyrusbuilt>
nosycat: hmmm.... I hadn't seen that one yet
<cyrusbuilt>
looks promising
<nosycat>
:)
<dovsienko>
I wonder why it would need to install a bunch of audio codecs and such
<nosycat>
Dunno. Framework dependencies?
* dovsienko
just sshfs-mounts Haiku home on a Linux host and uses the favourite Linux editor(s) to work with the source outside of the VM screen
<zard>
Oh, that's clever
<dovsienko>
all the convenient keystrokes work!
<nosycat>
With a VM, sure, that works.
<dovsienko>
s/convenient/familiar/
<dovsienko>
if X forwarding over SSH worked too, it would be super
<dovsienko>
but it's still fine if it does not, I can forgive that
<Begasus>
dovsienko, cudatext needs qt5pas which needs qt5 witch comes allong with ... :)
<nosycat>
That reminds me to try and build the dte text editor in Haiku.
<Begasus>
well qt5 comes with everything it needs, unlike qt6 which is split up
<Begasus>
yeah, should tweak the light style theme to use during the day (with a lot of sun the dark doesn't cut it)
<Begasus>
shouldn't be too hard gordonjcp, even managed to build something with Genio on 32bit with gcc13 :)
<gordonjcp>
I'll poke at it later, I've got to drive halfway up the country for 9am tomorrow so I'm about to load the computers into the car and get to bed ;-)
<Begasus>
same here (almost) :)
<Begasus>
time to close down
<gordonjcp>
it's not all that far, about 140 miles, but it's a four hour drive
<Begasus>
jikes!
<Begasus>
that's about 210Km here (almost from one point of the country to the other side) :D
<gordonjcp>
heh :-)
<gordonjcp>
I'm going from the North East of Scotland to... well, still the North-east but a hell of a lot north-west
<Begasus>
ah, and not the easiest roads to travel I guess
<gordonjcp>
Dundee to Inverness, approximately, with an annoying stop-off about 20 miles north to get gas, because my car is running really badly on petrol today
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<gordonjcp>
yeah the A9 is one of Europe's most dangerous roads, it's why I like to drive it at night
<gordonjcp>
it was indeed just like driving over 230 miles of a great big sparkly Christmas cake ;-)
<Begasus>
Looks nice with the snow!
<Begasus>
not easy to ride the full trip probably (can be exhausting)
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<Begasus>
lol, I'm not the only one using "peeps" it seems :D
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<BrunoSpr>
hi all
<BrunoSpr>
just to notice, if you have a Display port and a hdmi port on your HAIKU pc, the hdmi will be choosen first! If you power off the hdmi monitor the Display port will work!
<dovsienko>
could be driver- or hardware-specific, perhaps
<BrunoSpr>
no idea, but sound is not working on both, since hdmi-sound is not implemented, but Headphone does work!
<BrunoSpr>
For Display-Port I am not sure, but here sound does not work too, only Headphone!
<BrunoSpr>
You can connect your Sound box with the phone out to get sound!
<jmairboeck>
Begasus: regarding your ECM PR: I think using release tarballs is usually preferred compared to raw git archives, if available.
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<Begasus>
External HDMI screen doesn't do the trick here on the laptop
<Begasus>
jmairboeck, that would mean a full rebuild of all the KF6 recipes :)
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<Begasus>
nothing definite there (don't even know if I should push KF6, KF5 is running pretty fine)
<gordonjcp>
anyone here doing much with audio development on Haiku?
<gibsonpil>
Hello. I'm working on a Rust library that enumerates PCI devices and I'd like to add Haiku support, but I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out what API I should call to get the information I need (bus number, device number, function number, device id, vendor id, etc.). I know pciutils makes use of /dev/misc/poke to manually read the PCI configuration headers, but I was wondering if there is a more standard API so
<gibsonpil>
mewhere in Haiku that I'm missing. Sorry if this is the wrong channel by the way, I'm an IRC noob haha.
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<Begasus>
You're in the right channel gibsonpil :)
<Begasus>
can't help you there, maybe OscarL will drop in later and could help out a bit (iirc he was involved in "poke")
<Begasus>
or some of the other main developers
<Begasus>
time to close down here, cu peeps!
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<coolcoder613_32>
Good morning
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