<mrentropy64>
The Game Grid is fine, if you want to delete files. But only in a "survival of the fittest" kind of way. If I were designing my own OS, I would totally throw that in there.
<mrentropy64>
Files go to the trash can and every few hours you get a notification like "shoppinglist.txt defeated gingercat.gif" and gingercat.gif would be deleted, but the winning file would still hang around. Until it lost.
<jessicah>
hehe
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<nephele[x]>
jessicah: 32GB is not enough? wow, that makes me even more happy that Web+ just runs on decades old netbooks...
<jessicah>
what can I say, the modern web sucks
<nephele[x]>
Maybe you can install the mesh memory allocator to use chromium, lol
<jessicah>
I am running VMs too, but still
<jessicah>
at least the latest Chrome update handles out of memory better without it killing everything now
<jessicah>
lol
<nephele[x]>
I thought that was a linux problem? :)
<jessicah>
I'd upgrade to 64 gig if it didn't cost a little over NZ$500
<nephele[x]>
Jeez, i'd just stick with 32GB and install a better browser..
<jessicah>
well, killing all of Chrome
<jessicah>
contemplating switching to Edgium
<nephele[x]>
I saw otter browser does windows builds... so they seem the only real option for webkit on windows
<jessicah>
Windows install copes okay
<nephele[x]>
but then again, i don't know how recent their webkit is, since qtwebkit inside qt is pretty dead, and the other qtwebkit development with upstream webkit is still unstable
<nephele[x]>
I'm happy we don't overcommit memory by default
<jessicah>
:)
<nephele[x]>
Makes handeling oom much easier, no "well actually i promised this memory but it's in another castle" errors :)
<x512[m]>
<nephele[x]> "mesh allocator by the way, i don..." <- Does it behave well without memory overcommit and on 32 bits? Can it release memory to OS?
<nephele[x]>
I don't think this is useable as a generic OS alocator, but yes it does release memory, the basic Idea is that it marks how pages are used kind of, and manages to double allocate pages if holes in that page are still free, thus compacting used pages, and gives us more continious free space
<nephele[x]>
You can compile it and run it preloaded to an application so it gets this benefit without changing OS allocator
<nephele[x]>
memory overcommit and 32bits you would have to test, don't have info about that :)
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<Begasus>
g'morning peeps
<nephele[x]>
Hi begasus
<Begasus>
Hi nephele[x]
<Begasus>
ghc build failed on buildmaster PulkoMandy :)
<Not-5835>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JRlVY
<rennj>
add another disk/vmdk in virtualbox to the guest vm
<nephele[x]>
Make a new partition table?
<beaglejoe>
Yea, that doesn't look right..
<nephele[x]>
might be that for some reason the disk is seen as 64GB but the partition table specifies 8GB
<jessicah>
this _is_ the new disk added to the guest vm
<jessicah>
I'm not a bloody newbie
<jessicah>
it's a brand new partition table, it's either a bug in drive setup or in our partitioning code
<jessicah>
but no commits that touch it... and yes, I looked at syslog, and it looks correct
<nephele[x]>
ticket time?
<jessicah>
I suspect DriveSetup
<nephele[x]>
I would definetely say this is a bug, it shouldnt have a case where it shows a maximum size that does not match the size of all partitons cumilative (unless intel partition is used with 4 primary maxed)
<rennj>
why no colors
<rennj>
used in green and free in white
<beaglejoe>
DriveSetup and vm. i've been creating and deleting a lot of partitions on SSDs
<jessicah>
ahh, I've found it
<jessicah>
it's a bug in the UI
<jessicah>
bah, and now I can't reproduce
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<jessicah>
ah, it's a special case for the first partition, and editing offset directly
<Begasus>
moin humdinger :)
<humdinger>
morning all!
<jessicah>
hey humdinger
<humdinger>
hey, I missed all the riscV controversy! I won't read those threads though.
<humdinger>
gotta try to keep sane... :)
<jessicah>
okay, narrowed further, it's when offset is (2^n)-1 blocks... bizarre
<Begasus>
time for patching jessicah :)
<Begasus>
yeah humdinger ... guess some need to take some time out :)
<jessicah>
I'll track it down later, I have other things I'm working on
<Begasus>
checking up on the changes for texlive ...
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<nephele[x]>
humdinger: by the way, for the eject button for MediaPlayer, maybe a better option is to only show this while playing a file from an ejectable medium?
<nephele[x]>
that is what i'd expect anyhow (and i used to also have two disk drives, so just "eject" is not that nice for that case, though i admit this is very uncommon)
<humdinger>
maybe a combination: only show the "Eject" item at all if the hardware is present and only have it SetEnabled(true) when something's playing from that ejectable medium.
<nephele[x]>
Sounds good
<humdinger>
In that case, when playback is stopped, the stop button could turn into an eject button that might be too subtle though.
<humdinger>
All that's a bit over my current abilities slash available time... :)
<humdinger>
That reminds me to abandon that patch...
<nielx[m]>
meh. I really don't want to reward this behaviour
<nielx[m]>
anway, I will send a DM on the forum
<nephele[x]>
Well, your call, I do recall though that i also refused to do the captcha :P
<nielx[m]>
well you know, I have no issue with people having principles, and I am fine trying to find reasonable solutions to accommodate everyone. But I really get triggered by people demanding that everything bends to the principles. You seem to have it backward then: they're your principles, and you are responsible for mitigating them.
<nielx[m]>
anyway, account created
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<Niklas[m]>
Thanks for the account :D And sorry for causing additional work :/ That wasn't my intention.I just wanted to report that bug.I thought creating a forum thread is fine if the other thing doesn't work for me.Anyways,it's working now :)
<nielx[m]>
good to hear :-)
<nephele[x]>
nielx: yeah, i certainly agree, i did ask for an account then and i got one, so was happy then :)
<nielx[m]>
still working on making Gerrit more accessible
<nielx[m]>
the Bitbucket route was a dud
<jt15s[m]>
What about OAUTH?
<nephele[x]>
Thanks for looking into this nielx :D
<nielx[m]>
we use an oauth plugin, but one that is preconfigured for particular systems.
<jt15s[m]>
Quite a difficult issue as well, since there isn't any account we can really link to for Gerrit
<jt15s[m]>
Unless we have some sort of unified Haiku account
<nielx[m]>
I think we are investigating the unified Haiku account
<jt15s[m]>
BTW could we replace the Google captcha on Trac with an Hcaptcha?
<jt15s[m]>
One good thing about Hcaptcha is that we get paid too
<nephele[x]>
uh oh
<Niklas[m]>
Technically that should be pretty easy,yes
<PulkoMandy>
can we use a captcha that is not "hey let's do work for someone else?"
<Niklas[m]>
I mean a easy selfhosted picture with cryptic letters from before ReCaptcha has become popular would probably be enough,too but hCaptcha is at least better than ReCaptcha
<nephele[x]>
I'm imidiently suspicious of anything that wants to pay us for embeding content, and also they would basically pay for annoying our users and have them do free work they aren't compensated for
<PulkoMandy>
it also mentions blockchain
<nephele[x]>
abort abort!
<jezek2>
I do believe it's best to have each website to have their own custom captcha implementation, that way there is no central attack vector
<PulkoMandy>
yes
<jezek2>
and specifically it must be done from scratch (no using of existing captcha libraries)
<PulkoMandy>
somethng as stupid as a field asking "what operating system do you want to report bugs about?" would probably work better
<Niklas[m]>
Yes.And it has a nice side-effect that it doesn't give data to third-party providers
<PulkoMandy>
"by carelessly playing around with alsamixer, I managed to get the left built-in speaker to melt through the bottom casing of the laptop."
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<nephele[x]>
Jeez, I guess i should be happy that my speakers aren't actually burning...
<x512[m]>
<nephele[x]> "Ah, I love pulseaudio, it's..." <- Use PipeWire?
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<nephele[x]>
Something tells me that adding Another component to the linux audio stack won't fix it? :)
<PulkoMandy>
use Haiku? :p
<nephele[x]>
Well, I started Ubuntu because Epiphany has a working webinspector i wanted to use for work on the website, but i somehow ended up installing Sims 2 again
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<thinkski>
qq, would like to submit a small patch for the rune tool, dont see it on review.haiku-os.org. does rune use github?
<jessicah>
they're usually USB HID devices, aren't they?
<jessicah>
so they might kinda work?
<jessicah>
need to get me a PC tablet :p
<jt15s[m]>
To clarify about hcaptcha, how Google Captcha's business model works is that Google uses it to train their AI. For hcaptcha businesses pay the website owners who insert the captcha to use the captchas to train their AIs.
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<nephele[x]>
I think googles motivation for reCaptcha was them having written an AI that could complete the "normal" captcha better than humans...
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<nephele[x]>
Jessicah: for the cursor, I remember using the wacom tablet and always disableing touch support, because it would just be one cursor that would work badly, but with direct input and a better model this could be great, even if only to rotate the canvas while drawing (so i can stop rotating the tablet...)
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<nephele[x]>
Was that the matrx bridge restarting?
<nephele[x]>
i guess not, maybe a netsplit
<jessicah>
looks like it
<jessicah>
oh, no, was a netsplit charon <=> liquid
<nephele[x]>
i first thought matrix, but then i saw jt15s posted something in between :)
<jessicah>
nephele[x]: it would be cool for a jigsaw puzzle app too :)
<nephele[x]>
Just so we can boast that haiku can do this? :P
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<jessicah>
with pieces not only shuffled x,y, but also angle :)
<jessicah>
I already find jigsaw puzzle apps a little bit too easy
<nephele[x]>
Well, let's do it then :D
<jessicah>
:D
<nephele[x]>
seems the tablet of mine really does do multitouch, but haiku does not recognize touch at all currently, and linux pretends it's a really really big touchpad, gives me two finger scroll
<jessicah>
heh
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<jessicah>
haiku doesn't have any usb touchpad support, from my searches of haiku sources
<jessicah>
only ps/2 touchpad support exists
<nephele[x]>
It would be in the wacom driver for this one, i think
<nephele[x]>
in linux that is the same driver anyhow
<nephele[x]>
seems this tablet only supports two fingers, well, still fine to work with i think
<jessicah>
:)
<jt15s[m]>
Niklas: Not too sure, but you can search Trac to see if someone's filed a ticket.
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<Niklas[m]>
I didn't find anything related to that in Trac but in the forums.Looks like a Discourse update broke QtWebKit compatibility and it won't be fixed.It can still be viewed with Javascript disabled but logging in doesn't work then
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<nephele[x]>
qtwebkit upstream (in qt) is pretty much unmaintained because of qtwebengine
<Niklas[m]>
I know :(
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<Niklas[m]>
I often check its Github reposiitory with the hope to see new commits but there are none
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<jessicah>
is qtwebengine based on chromium/blink?
<Niklas[m]>
That's really a shame as Otter Browser was the only usable browser on Haiku and QtWebEngine porting seems to be difficult
<Niklas[m]>
Yes,it is
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<jessicah>
ah :-/
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<Niklas[m]>
But there were some attempts to port it already and it was in a state where it could already display webpages,althought it has been reported that it was unstable.Unfortunately the patch that made it work doesn't seem to be published :/
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<nephele[x]>
jessicah: yes it is
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<nephele[x]>
maybe someone should port epihpany when we have gtk, lol, it's a very good webkit browser
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<Niklas[m]>
Epiphany/GNOME Web lacks a lot of features and settings that Otter Browser has but at least it supports more recent web standards
<nephele[x]>
or just... contribute to haikuwebkit and webpositive
<nephele[x]>
not sure what you mean Niklas? I'm atleast not missing anything obvious
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<Niklas[m]>
No proxy config,no adblocker settings,...
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<nephele[x]>
proxy is an OS setting that it just follows afaik
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<nephele[x]>
and adblocker works fine, albeit much faster than in chromium with having to install third-party addons
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<Niklas[m]>
Proxy system settings only works with GNOME,not with Enlightenment desktop for example.Would be nice if Epiphany had a option to overwrite (not working) system settings
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<Niklas[m]>
And yes,the adblocker works but you can't customize what it should block,it always uses the built-in list.
<nephele[x]>
That's not acurate, you can provide a different list
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<jt15s[m]>
Not too sure, maybe their IRC client is having issues?
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<Niklas[m]>
nephele: How can I set another list?
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<Niklas[m]>
I managed to do that by manually editing some registry entry some months ago but I didn't find a graphical setting for it.
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<nephele[x]>
dunno, launch option or something, what do you mean by registry entry?
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<Niklas[m]>
dconf set org.gnome.epiphany or something like that,I can't remember the specific path
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<nephele[x]>
ah, dconf
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<Niklas[m]>
I can't try it right now because this computer has KDE,no GNOME apps installed.
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<nephele[x]>
there is a graphical dconf editor too if you want
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<Niklas[m]>
I know.That's what I used to find the setting the first time.
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<nephele[x]>
Tried Lutris again after years to try and install sims2, it worked, but i got the creepypasta edition... it looks like the screen is tinted in blood
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<Niklas[m]>
But still that is a hidden setting,even if there's a grapfical Dconf Editor.A good browser should at least have a setting where I can specify a URL to any adblock list.But Otter Browsers advanced adblocker setting is even better.
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<Niklas[m]>
I know that GNOMEs goal is simplicity but that kills a lot of configuration options and features that the majority doesn't need but a nerd like me does.
<rennj>
that pdf basically covers test they did, brave browser looked like it didnt leak data
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<rennj>
We measure the data sent to their back-end servers by five browsers: Google Chrome, Mozilla Firefox, Apple Safari, Brave Browser and Microsoft Edge, during normal web browsing on both desktop and mobile devices.
<Niklas[m]>
The major browsers all sent data,only small ones like GNOME Web or Otter Browser don't
<rennj>
ill take ieee.org over some ~werewolf any day
<rennj>
read the ieee.org pdf if you care to
<Niklas[m]>
For me it doesn't matter as Brave doesn't run on Haiku and ManjaroARMM anyway
<Niklas[m]>
*ManjaroARM
<rennj>
or you know tcpdump the session
<rennj>
if you got router
<rennj>
i use to have nice freebsd router at home, i could capture/dump all the traffic between modem and local lan..
<rennj>
computer with 2 nics will do
<nephele[x]>
I'm looking forward to seeing WebPositive on RISCV, I assume this will work nicely, i read on linux that "only epiphany" is available on RISCV, but i'm really questioning why you'd want chromium or firefox anyway if you can use epiphany...
<Niklas[m]>
Well,I think you are missing my point after all.I never talked about Browsers phoning home but about browsers config options like the possibility to use the adblocking list I want to.Sure,Brave allows me to do that but it will probably never run on Haiku so that isn't really useful for me.
<rennj>
privacy given up for convenience, people want their netflix,hulu,disney
<rennj>
winblows,crapple convenience
<rennj>
vs setting up linux box
<Niklas[m]>
Disabling that DRM nonsense is basically the first step I always do when setting up a new Firefox install.No Netflix,RTL Now and other proprietary bullshit then :D
<rennj>
firefox and chrome and chromium on linux all check /etc/machine-id on launch, besides ip, they get a uuid which is unique to you
<Niklas[m]>
I know and I really like that DRM isn't available here :D
<nephele[x]>
Niklas: if you are a coder, maybe you can contribute to haikuwebkit or webpositive, you seem to know what you want there, anyhow :P
<rennj>
devuan linux only linux i know that addressed the uuid/machine-id issue
<Niklas[m]>
I'm a web developer.I know Javascript,PHP and CSS,but not C++
<nephele[x]>
I didn't know C++ before i started contributing to haiku anyhow, i suppose the option is always there if you want to learn C++ :)
<Niklas[m]>
And if I did,I'd probably rather maintain the QtWebKit project because Otter is a great browser and its performance is way better than HaikuWebKit,it just needs some patches for newer web standard
<nephele[x]>
there is no "just" about it tbh
<nephele[x]>
there is an effort to have upstream webkit for qtwebkit, but that is still massively in testing stage, and Otter supports qtwebengine anyhow
<Niklas[m]>
I must go offline for now
<nephele[x]>
I kinda disagree on the performance angle, though... for me WebPositive beats chromium and firefox easily on old hardware :), it depends on what you measure i guess
<nephele[x]>
see you :)
<PulkoMandy>
yes, "just update webkit to newer web standards" is what I spend most of my haiku time on these days
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<PulkoMandy>
as for the RISC-V version of webkit, I think the support was added like weeks ago to webkit and is not yet in the haiku version
<PulkoMandy>
but I guess it can run the plain C javascript interpreter until then?
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<nephele[x]>
I'm interested nonetheless, even without js :)
<nephele[x]>
Chromium and edge support dark controls now aswell, might see some more adoption, neat!
<mrentropy64>
I got a lot of things where the uninstall button isn't active.
<Begasus>
in /system/packages?
<mrentropy64>
I have no idea where they are; I'm just looking at HaikuDepot.
<Begasus>
Ah, maybe they are not installed? (do you see a message/button to "Install" there?)
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<mrentropy64>
Nope, they're installed... But my other computer is not behaving the same way, so who knows? Like, on one krash had uninstall disabled, but on this computer uninstall is enabled.
<mrentropy64>
So... shrug. I don't know. It's not especially important.
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<Skipp_OSX>
PulkoMandy can you test my patch? (if you are on Haiku box with source tree)
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<Skipp_OSX>
Is anybody here is on 32-bit Haiku with Haiku src tree that can test my patch?
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<Skipp_OSX>
jessicah already verified it working on 64-bit so seems to be working but would be nice to get another data point... been a journey on this one.
<Begasus>
32bit not running atm here, and should do a clean checkout on Haiku's sources
<Skipp_OSX>
Many people on forums seem to want grid next so I should probably work on that
<Skipp_OSX>
Should be pretty simple to implement, and I am fluent in Tracker internals now.
<Skipp_OSX>
we should really truncate the file name string in the middle instead of at the end so that you can see the extension
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<nephele[x]>
i thought we don't do extensions?
<nephele[x]>
shoudlnt the icon tell you what it is already?
<Niklas[m]>
To come back to the topic from earlier this day... PulkoMandy,I know that updating a WebKit port is very much work.But I think it's still way less work to upgrade the Webkit port behind a fully-featured browser than adding tons of features to a browser that has only a few basic features plus performance issues.And nephele,I can't compare the performance to Firefox or Chromium as my machines are either Haiku-only or Linux-only,no dual-boot,but I
<Niklas[m]>
can say that Otter Browser renders pages much faster on my big tower with 8-core i7 CPU and 16GB RAM than WebPositive does.And animations are also much smoother.I can send you a link to my WIP browsergame project if you want to try it,that makes the difference very clear.
<Niklas[m]>
And rennj,I'm really interested in this web rendering proxy server of which you send a screenshot.Is it open-source?
<Skipp_OSX>
we don't _require_ extensions but we use them
<Skipp_OSX>
compatibility with other systems means they are still a fact of life
<Niklas[m]>
Thanks,that might be a great solution to use unsupported webpages on Haiku :D
<nephele[x]>
if its way less work how come qtwebkit is basically dead but haikuwebkit isn't? if it were easy surely otter devs would have just done it
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<Niklas[m]>
I think maintaining QtWebKit and HaikuWebKit is more or less the same amount of work.
<nephele[x]>
I honestly doubt it
<Niklas[m]>
But adding all Otter Browser features to WebPositive would be more work.
<nephele[x]>
why would you want to? webkit baiscaly already has all we want
<Niklas[m]>
Well,QtWebKit and HaikuWebKit are both ports of the WebKit engine to native UI toolkits.Why should it be more work for Qt?
<nephele[x]>
because the qt port targets qt which is cross platform, and the qt port is fairly dead and has no upstream support (from qt)
<Niklas[m]>
I didn't say that it's easy...
<jezek2>
meanwhile I would like to even compile at least 1 big browser :D
<jezek2>
so far no success :D
<Niklas[m]>
I'd like that too but I did already accept that I'll probably never get Firefox to run on Haiku
<nephele[x]>
jezek2: compiling webkit on haiku works fine for me :)
<jezek2>
nephele[x]: that seems actually the most sane option, but haven't tried yet
<nephele[x]>
firefox already ran on haiku years ago, it was abandonded because the patches couldnt be upstreamed
<nephele[x]>
so we have webkit now, not upstream but that might change in the future
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<Not-5835>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] https://git.io/JRB2m
<Not-5835>
[haikuports/haikuports] extrowerk ad77ec8 - GMSH: new recipe (#6122)
<x512[m]>
<nephele[x]> "firefox already ran on haiku..." <- I see no problems with ports without patches upstreamed.
<Skipp_OSX>
I mean, a really old version of Firefox ran on Haiku a long time ago
<Skipp_OSX>
and even then, with big caveats and changes to make it work, and afaik nothing version 3 on ever worked
<Skipp_OSX>
need canvas support
<Niklas[m]>
Firefox had many breaking changes in the mean time and I don't think there's anything that can be reused from the old port.
<mrentropy64>
It was Mozilla at the time. Or, BeZilla, if you like.
<Skipp_OSX>
It was Firefox at the time, but because we we're allowed to use the trademark for our unofficial non-sanctioned port, we called it BeZilla instead.
<Skipp_OSX>
see IceWeasel
<Skipp_OSX>
Mozilla was always the name of the group that created the browser, never the browser name, but before it was called Firefox it was called Netscape and that was before BeZilla
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<Skipp_OSX>
anyway, if you want Firefox I'm afraid you'll have to start the port over again compiling all the dependencies and it will be a LOT of work so good luck
<Begasus>
heading down here, cu peeps!
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<nephele[x]>
x512: it becomes easier to maintain when it is upstream, but yes not a problem as such
<nephele[x]>
niklas: probably not, but then nobody seems to care to port it either, apart from users complaining on the forums that $browser should be ported..
<PulkoMandy>
Skipp_OSX, there is/was actually a browser called Mozilla (a bit more similar to netscape and including an email client and other things)
<PulkoMandy>
what's now known as SeaMonkey, apparently
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<Niklas[m]>
nephele: I don't care to port it either.It would be nice to have,but too much work for me and a more recent QtWebKit version would be enough for me.Maybe I should really look into that but I think it's a too big project to begin with learning C++
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<nephele[x]>
Well, you can do that if you want :), for me i'll continue with haikuwebkit
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<HaikuUser>
Hey
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<HaikuUser>
the latest Haiku release is fucking great
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<HaikuUser>
Anyone know the status of getting something like Firefox running?
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<HaikuUser>
A good browser goes a long way
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<jessicah>
HaikuUser: Firefox, no, Chromium, no
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<jessicah>
WebPositive uses webkit, and there is work to move to webkit2 iirc
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<Skipp_OSX>
best we got is QupZilla
<Skipp_OSX>
(other than WebPositive of course)
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<HaikuUser>
Qupzilla? Really?
<HaikuUser>
32-bit package?
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<Skipp_OSX>
um... sorry no, best we got is Otter
<HaikuUser>
Ah, gotcha. Was browsing the depot like a madman lol
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<Skipp_OSX>
yeah I forgot the name
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<HaikuUser>
There's a guy on Youtube who smokes weed and tests out every operating system there is named Druaga1. He did a great video on Haiku. Recommend a watch, funny and informative as shit
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<Skipp_OSX>
yeah I've heard of druaga1 what's up smokers?
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<HaikuUser>
xD
<HaikuUser>
The way he says that cracks me up
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<cocobean>
I see the Haikuwebkit Webkit2 (612.1.27) snapshot.... buildable somewhat?
<cocobean>
or wait till Xmas?
<Vidrep_64>
I built it a couple of days ago using a hack suggested by X512. Since then, there have been further updates and a proper fix. I'm building now as a matter of fact
<cocobean>
Thanks.
<Vidrep_64>
Sorry, it was madmax, not X512
<Vidrep_64>
I'll let you know how it went in about half-hour
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