ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
<jessicah> if they're compiled for haiku, there's a chance they may not work on BeOS due to some API additions
<jessicah> e.g. a gcc2h compiled app that uses Haiku's Layout API
<rennj> yeah figures
<rennj> compile from source have fun
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<exit70[m]> i am mostly interested in the “media os” claim of the beos bible book
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<jessicah> it was pretty cool :)
<jessicah> and the whole concept of individual servers worked surprisingly well
<jessicah> I had a winamp clone playing music, the app_server died, but it kept on playing music without a blip despite the desktop being dead :p
<exit70[m]> btw does haiku not ship with any sound files? Preferences -> Sounds is all <none>
<jessicah> iirc, there was a sound set competition, but maybe it hasn't been merged yet
<mrentropyvcs> I don't remember how that ended up.
<Coldfirex> pretty sure it ended up how the rest of our forum competitions end up :)
<jessicah> heh
<Coldfirex> waddlesplash: I take it musl's malloc hasnt progressed far enough since our last go with it?
<exit70[m]> and audio is not working on my macbook2,1, I believe the pci device in question is 8086:27d8
<jt15s[m]> jessicah: Apparently the code to implement system sounds hasn't been written yet, thus why the sounds haven't been included with Haiku. Hopefully someone can get to it.
<mrentropyvcs> Startup sounds work.
<jt15s[m]> Hmm, maybe it's for the other sounds then
<mrentropyvcs> I haven't tried the other ones, but my other computer plays Wyld Stallyns when it boots up.
<Coldfirex> Rock on
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<turbotum> Hello! Has anyone noticed any issues with the install-wifi-firmwares.sh as of beta 3? My laptop contains a BCM43224 which Haiku's documentation explicitly claims to support via that script however I can't seem to get WLAN working at all; /dev/net/ only populates the LAN card. Any help or ideas would be appreciated, as this is the first build to even function on my laptop, and it seems to work perfectly, besides the wifi.
<turbotum> Wifi script not working directly after fresh install essentially
<turbotum> Oh god haiku is so damn good and distraction free, I'm in love
<jessicah> ;-)
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<turbotum> Mannn what is wrong with the dang wifi >:I
<turbotum> Has anyone tested the script since the release of beta 3?
<jessicah> I thought I saw someone say that one isn't supported
<turbotum> Seems to say that one in particular is supported
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<turbotum> And the devices menu correctly identifies it by name and labels it an 802.11 a/b/g/n network controller
<jessicah> I dunno then
<jessicah> oh, the Devices app doesn't show if a device is supported or not... it basically just enumerates the PCI bus
<turbotum> >_< i will experiment . . . difficult however considering beta 3 is the first release of haiku to even boot on my laptop
<turbotum> and it's a thinkpad so I think the wifi mpcie slot is whitelisted ugh
<jessicah> I have to use a thunderbolt to ethernet adapter on my macbook air
<turbotum> Ouch
<turbotum> Now I'm thankful my LAN works
<turbotum> YOOO someone made a custom bios for this thing that removes the mPCIe whitelist
<turbotum> Good stuff
<jessicah> ugh, whitelisted hardware in bios? that's terrible
<x512[m]> That should be prohibited by law.
<turbotum> Yeah it's gross
<turbotum> Will be flashing the hacked one tonight I suppose
<turbotum> and ordering a foss friendly replacement
<jessicah> :)
<jessicah> I should see if I can do that with my macbook air
<turbotum> You'd think so
<jessicah> depends if wifi card is soldered in or not, never know with apple hardware
* jessicah goes looks at ifixit
<turbotum> ifixit: 0/10 repairability you will die
<jessicah> hehe
<jessicah> ah yeah, just need those stupid custom screwdrivers
<turbotum> Rad
<turbotum> It's just so annoying, the documentation SAYS that THIS particular card should work fine
<turbotum> I wonder what changeddddd
<turbotum> Yeah everything I'm reading is saying the standard bcm43xx driver should work great
<turbotum> Wait huh
<turbotum> This is different
<jessicah> oh of course apple uses a custom connector for their SSD :-/
<jessicah> what's your device id? you can get that from Devices
<turbotum> 0x576
<jessicah> should be 4 digits
<turbotum> device/id is 0x576 device/vendor is 0x14e4
<jessicah> huh, okay
<turbotum> 1sec
<jessicah> yeah, that looks correct
<jessicah> as far as I know, we don't have support for any 802.11n wifi
<jessicah> even though 802.11n cards can support the lower speeds, it needs differing parts in the wifi stack
<jessicah> either the MAC or PHY differs, I can't remember which
<turbotum> Huh
<jessicah> mind you, I've been out of the scene for a couple years, so I may be out of date :)
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<exit70[m]> ironically macbook 2,1 is my first laptop with atheros rather than broadcom
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<waddlesplash> turbotum: Broadcom wifi is just not fun
<waddlesplash> the reason you have to run scripts is because it has to download firmwares because Broadcom has stupid licensing
<waddlesplash> we can bundle firmwares for Intel and Realtek cards but not for Broadcom, or at least not that generation
<waddlesplash> I didn't look if this changed, I guess I could investigatw
<Skipp_OSX> thumbnail gen doesn't work at all for me and I'm confused about it
<Skipp_OSX> Thinking about reinstalling
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<jessicah> did you select all the files to get their mimetypes detected?
<jessicah> :p
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<Skipp_OSX> yeah 100% cpu nothing happened
<Skipp_OSX> on the bright side turn it off and you're back to working again
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<turbotum> @waddlesplash, either way, it at the very least seems my card should work but the script seems to do nothing :(
<jessicah> as I said, afaik, we don't support 802.11n cards
<jessicah> I even looked for broadcom device ids of other 802.11n cards, and those weren't showing up either
<turbotum> Bleh
<turbotum> Wish I knew C
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<rennj> intel has licensing on firmware also i think, openbsd https://man.openbsd.org/iwm.4
<rennj> These firmware files are not free because Intel refuses to grant distribution rights without contractual obligations. As a result, even though OpenBSD includes the driver, the firmware files cannot be included and users have to download these files on their own.
<exit70[m]> 802.11n (including draft n) is from like 2006? i thought what’s not supported by bsd and haiku is ac+
<rennj> my 802.11ac isnt in the linux kernel source..
<rennj> least not yet anyway..
<exit70[m]> which machine?
<rennj> linksys wusb6300 802.11ac dongle
<rennj> been using like 4 years now or so
<rennj> atheros always had the best wifi
<rennj> winblows all day
<exit70[m]> the foss friendly atheros (pci and usb) only supports wireless n
<exit70[m]> i know some realtek chipset needs staging or out of tree drivers
<rennj> my netgear wifi dongle same as that linksys dongle outside kernel still
<rennj> netgear ac1200 a6210
<rennj> Ralink rt2870 compiled mt7662u_sta.ko
<rennj> from my notes..
<exit70[m]> can you do pcie wifi instead?
<rennj> well this craptop came with m.2 wifi/bluetooth combo card
<rennj> m.2 is pcie,ahci,usb all 3 in 1
<rennj> but it was piece of junk card rev01
<rennj> ended up pulling it, cause it sucked so hard
<exit70[m]> replace with a good intel card?
<rennj> nah the netgear and linksys usb wifi dongles on usb3.0 hub
<rennj> Mon May 29 22:58:03 MDT 2017 $42 for netgear ac1200 a6210
<rennj> eth1: Broadcom BCM4365 802.11 Hybrid Wireless Controller 6.30.223.271 / Bluetooth: hci0: BCM43142A
<exit70[m]> do they work with haiku?
<rennj> that was m.2 card
<rennj> they dont work with linux let alone haiku
<rennj> why i run everything in vmware guest vm's
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<rennj> my m.2 slot is empty at the moment
<exit70[m]> what i was saying is that you could put an intel m.2 card there; might work with both linux and haiku
<rennj> replace this craptop with ryzen 8core chip is only upgrade ill be doing
<rennj> i dont run anything but linux on the laptops, everything else goes into vmware
<rennj> course i also build in-memory/ram os...how i run linux
<rennj> 350MB.iso currently...
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<exit70[m]> fwiw, zen 3 (desktop) usb lock up was pretty bad last time i tried it
<rennj> 350MB is all i need to run everything else, just enough os to bring up vmware-vmx
<rennj> https://imgur.com/9H8EV5S nothing but init,udevd,syslogd/klogd and then vmware-vmx
<rennj> no dbus,no pulseaudio, no consolekit, polkit, systemd, no cron/atd
<exit70[m]> pretty cool. you might want a newer kernel for those new amd systems
<rennj> nah i been running this 100day uptimes
<rennj> heh
<rennj> 2019 kernel
<rennj> and i have to compile 2 802.11ac dongles and vmware against each new kernel
<rennj> so once i get stability i dont remaster the .iso
<rennj> i use to have 2 dongles, fglrx amd driver, and vmware to compile
<rennj> against each new kernel..screw that
<exit70[m]> so i guess you run haiku with vmware too or?
<rennj> linux,winblows,amiga,haiku in vmware
<rennj> i been doing the same thing for 7 laptops going back to like 2005 when i dumped my towers
<rennj> 15 years of build in-memory/ram os based on less then 200 slackware binary pkg's
<rennj> unionfs/aufs/overlayfs using squashfs
<exit70[m]> i thought amiga is for m68k/ppc?
<rennj> squashfs wasnt in the linux kernel for years
<rennj> it is
<rennj> that uae/jit on qnx
<rennj> amigaxl is qnx os with uae-jit
<rennj> $150 dollars for amithlon/amigaxl and it was pulled from the market within 1 month for lawsuit
<rennj> linux uae-jit amiga or qnx uae-jit amiga. failed product
<exit70[m]> i did not know that
<rennj> i still had pulseaudio in that last picture, i since removed it
<rennj> doesnt matter since most stuff still load libdbus/libpulse even though i dont run them
<rennj> everything is compiled against them at this point
<rennj> pulseaudio suck and my windows gaming vm i can prove it
<rennj> stuttering in snes9x vs none just using alsa/asound
<rennj> pulseaudio on solaris sucks..go to shutdown desktop and get pulseaudio prompt about process not being able to shutdown..
<rennj> redhat/freedesktop crapola
<rennj> they turned linux into winblows at this point with all their software..
<rennj> pulseaudio in that last screenshot is eating up as much cpu and vmware vm's
<exit70[m]> you use linux as the "manager", windows for gaming, what do you do with haiku?
<rennj> periodically boot it up see how things are going, sometime i do compile of .c program for tests
<rennj> comparing openbsd,freebsd,linux,solaris,haiku compiling
<rennj> same program across all os's
<rennj> beos i ran from like 1999-2004. way past it prime.
<rennj> maybe it was 1998 even
<rennj> but i need to have couple supporting boxes for it
<rennj> freebsd firewall router nfs box
<rennj> when my tyan tiger dual amd mp /smp box fired on the atx power line, was day i stopped running beos.
<exit70[m]> tbh i still don't think i "get" beos. but i guess win9x/classic mac os was bad enough. i only used a bit of 9x in early 2000s.
<rennj> well compared to linux and winblows it handled media video/audio better
<rennj> like a poor mans sgi
<rennj> it was snappy and responsive while those 2 os's where not
<rennj> at least back in the late 90's
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<rennj> by 2004 things where much different
<exit70[m]> i don't recall xp/linux being too sluggish; it was an early pentium 4 not so good prebuilt
<rennj> compared to beos they where
<rennj> https://pasteboard.co/ITGCgv4.jpg thats vlc 0.8.0 2004
<rennj> mplayer vlc mpv where not what they where back then
<rennj> winblows didnt have the media codecs...people needed to download all that crap
<rennj> be like ubuntu vs mint..
<rennj> when was ffmpeg released?
<rennj> mr qemu ffmpeg, the god programmer
<rennj> The project was started by Fabrice Bellard[8] (using the pseudonym "Gérard Lantau") in 2000, and was led by Michael Niedermayer from 2004 until 2015.[9] Some FFmpeg developers were also part of the MPlayer project.
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<rennj> where/were heh
<exit70[m]> somehow all these codecs were no better than h.264
<rennj> flash/shockwave we even had that up to 4.0
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<exit70[m]> 4.0 of what?
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<repetitivestrain> Random question: do BView transforms affect bitmaps drawn onto the view with DrawBitmap?
<repetitivestrain> it doesn't seem to be the case
<repetitivestrain> perhaps the documentation could be a little clearer?
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<coolchris> hi does anyone know how to install build factory for yab so i can build basic programs?
<coolchris> it says buildfactory.yab is missing
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<coolchris> lmao just found it in haiku depot
<coolchris> stupid me lol
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<Guest5806> Ehehe
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<countryboy> hello
<countryboy> all open source in the world => united ;-)
<countryboy> all together ...
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<B2IA> (binky) After I installed the latest VMware Tools version, it crashes the system.
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<countryboy> i think about bepascal ... we need pascal units with BObjects and Bfunctions and BSubroutines ... ;-)
<countryboy> only units
<countryboy> pascal ... free pascal is ok ...
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<countryboy> i apologize ... freedom ...
<countryboy> I don't want to force anyone with my ideas ...
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<countryboy> bronzie94[m]: the good doctor ...
<countryboy> that image is dedicated to each of us: geniuses
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<mrentropyvcs> SmallTalk on Haiku would be an interesting thing.
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<countryboy> and the email app under haiku is beam ?
<mrentropyvcs> That's one of them.
<countryboy> ok, and ...
<countryboy> making beam like thunderbird : email + irc ?
<mrentropyvcs> I don't understand the question.
<countryboy> np, an idea, freedom
<countryboy> mrentropyvcs: adding irc feature to beam ...
<mrentropyvcs> I suppose anything is possible.
<countryboy> np
<countryboy> cu
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<countryboy> hullo
<countryboy> hello
<mrentropyvcs> Howdy
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<countryboy> hi, mrentropyvcs
<Anarchos> hello folks
<countryboy> hello Anarchos
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<Animortis> So someone once told me (waddlesplash) we can adjust the resolution via the EFI settings?
<mrentropyvcs> I don't know about that, but if you hold down the spacebar and get to the boot menu, there's a space there where you can try and select a different resolution to boot to, if your EFI/Monit allow it.
<mrentropyvcs> He would know more than me, though.
<Animortis> Ah, OK I will try that. I was expecting a file to edit or something.
<Animortis> I got this new huge 144hz 4k monitor and I want Haiku at a higher resolution than 1024x768 lol
<countryboy> and legacy boot with pressing shift ...
<Animortis> brb
<Animortis> Yeah it shows resolution adjustments, but nothing higher shows up.
<Animortis> Yeah no dice
<Animortis> Heck, I'd just take a 16:9 resolution so it doesn't look so distorted.
<countryboy> put a check to fail safe video mode before ...
<mrentropyvcs> Interesting. Mine boots into 4K by default.
<Animortis> It *used* to default to 4K
<Animortis> it stopped for some reason.
<Animortis> And none of those worked out
<nekobot> [haiku/buildtools] korli pushed 1 commit to master [btrev43172] - https://git.haiku-os.org/buildtools/log/?qt=range&q=88d0e51d38c1+%5E5cccbfddbae2
<nekobot> [haiku/buildtools] 88d0e51d38c1 - jam: Fix warning. Argument has type long int but indicated format was int.
<Animortis> brb
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<nekobot> [haiku/buildtools] korli pushed 1 commit to master [btrev43173] - https://git.haiku-os.org/buildtools/log/?qt=range&q=cc988c8c900f+%5E88d0e51d38c1
<nekobot> [haiku/buildtools] cc988c8c900f - jam: Fix build warning. Add missing include for Linux.
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<Animortis> Oh well. Guess I'll just keep trying to get Haiku to work on Bhyve.
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<Coldfirex> waddlesplash: Is there any documentation on keeping the freebsd drivers insync from upstream?
<waddlesplash> Animortis: yes the VESA settings file
<waddlesplash> it probably already exists on your system and yoy just need to edit it
<waddlesplash> Coldfirex: not sure I ever wrote any, check docs/develop. why?
<Animortis> I'm still not great with Haiku's folder structure. Where's the VESA file at?
<Coldfirex> waddlesplash: Sorry, that was mostly Korli now that I look a little closer
<waddlesplash> Coldfirex: no, only in recent months
<waddlesplash> it was almost 100% me from 2018-2020 or so
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<waddlesplash> hmm, actually more than that, maybe 2017?
<waddlesplash> either way I was the main person working on those for quite some time
<Coldfirex> 10-4. I was just making a list of things I could keep trying to help out with
<waddlesplash> Animortis: it's in ~/config/settings I believe
<Animortis> Eugh... Lots of files there. :)
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<countryboy> i think the best networking was freebsd : now all couse is open source ...
<countryboy> now all together => we can copy => it is opensource ...
<countryboy> ;-)
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<The_Ringmaster> hello gents!
<The_Ringmaster> do we know how to get PythonInterp? What provides that?
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<mrentropyvcs> Is there a Haiku equivelent to #include <linux/version.h>?
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<waddlesplash> mrentropyvcs: Haiku version information is in BeBuild.h which comes with OS.h I think
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<mrentropyvcs> waddlesplash: Thanks!
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<Coldfirex> should all drivers that reference B_READ_AREA be migrated to B_KERNEL_READ_AREA for smap?
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<waddlesplash> Coldfirex: some of them are allocating user areas intentionally, so it has to be carefully checked
<waddlesplash> at this point I would leave all drivers alone that have no tickets, as many of them are for legacy hardware that is never used anymore
<Coldfirex> 10-4. Just trying to get an understanding of that
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<Skipp_OSX> can somebody test my color pickers? https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/5800 <= binary inside
<Skipp_OSX> they are a little complicated to install but there are instructions
<_Dario_> hi Skipp_OSX
<_Dario_> 'm trying to install your colorPicker
<_Dario_> I have a question about the install process
<_Dario_> must be copied to this folder: /boot/home/config/non-packaged/add-ons
<_Dario_> I mean, just in the root ../add-ons/ folder. Not inside any of their sub folders
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev55363] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=084c6fa13018+%5Ec7bd3e69fae9
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 084c6fa13018 - libuuid: Tweaks to Jamfiles.
<Skipp_OSX> copy the Color Pickers folder to add-ons/
<Skipp_OSX> (with the color pickers inside)
<_Dario_> got it now
<_Dario_> well, the only part I'm missing, is the FileType one. I tried registering it with the provided command
<_Dario_> but not found it in FileTypes
<Skipp_OSX> open the client first that will add to FileTypes
<Skipp_OSX> then run command to fill out the Supported apps
<jessicah> Animortis: if you're booting in uefi mode, and the list of supported resolutions in the boot menu aren't sufficient, you're out of luck unless you have a supported graphics chipset in drivers
<jessicah> if it's using the vesa/framebuffer driver, then no dice :-/
<_Dario_> weird... the client open... I can choose 4 diferent values from the combo. Also can see the different 'shapes' (hexagons, pencils, etc.)
<_Dario_> The only missing is the FileType entries.
<Skipp_OSX> close and open FileTypes :)
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<Skipp_OSX> should be there called "Color picker"
<_Dario_> nop... I tried several times
<_Dario_> I mean, I opened and closed several times
<Skipp_OSX> you're saying that the Color picker type is not there but the client is opening different pickers anyway?
<_Dario_> Yes, exactly
<_Dario_> let me submit an image
<Skipp_OSX> hmmm well that's strange because that means it's working... but working and not in FileTypes would be odd...
<_Dario_> wait
<_Dario_> now appeared
<_Dario_> weird
<Skipp_OSX> haha weird
<Skipp_OSX> and are the color pickers in supported apps?
<_Dario_> I mean, I close the Client
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<Skipp_OSX> that's ok you only have to run it the one time to get the type installed
<_Dario_> and opened again the client, while the FileType window is open, and there appeared.
<Skipp_OSX> but in FileTypes under Supported apps do the color pickers show in the drop down?
<_Dario_> let me check
<Skipp_OSX> you mean it uninstalls the type when you quit the app?
<Skipp_OSX> that would be interesting I suppose
<_Dario_> it's really weird
<_Dario_> let me try to express it correctly
<_Dario_> sorry, english is not my native language
<_Dario_> now, after I closed the Client, the FileType entry disappeared
<_Dario_> but I find the following
<Skipp_OSX> weird ok yeah that sounds like it is uninstalling it which I would not have expected
<_Dario_> step 1: FileType window open. Color Picker entry don't exist.
<_Dario_> step 2: open the Client. FileType don't appears.
<Skipp_OSX> you opened the application drop down right? I'm just making sure
<Skipp_OSX> err outline list view item
<_Dario_> step 3: i choose a value from the Client combo, then FileType entry appears!
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<_Dario_> so, basically, the FileType entry is triggered when the comboBox value is changed in the client.
<Skipp_OSX> but the combo ... is just reading the supported apps
<Skipp_OSX> drop down in FileTypes are the color pickers there? simple, crayon, pencil, hex?
<_Dario_> Yes, they are
<Skipp_OSX> ok well that's weird but ok
<Skipp_OSX> so it's installed
<_Dario_> no, wait. Sorry. Forgot the last one
<Skipp_OSX> no hex?
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<_Dario_> Ok, it's fine. In FileType there are the four values in the "prefeer application" combo
<Skipp_OSX> can you click the rectangles in the client app, change the color live? then Cancel to return to original color?
<Skipp_OSX> Preferred application that's it sorry
<Skipp_OSX> those are the supported apps that can be set to preferred so good
<Skipp_OSX> it's important that those entries appear so I know that the pickers are installed correctly
<_Dario_> sorry, don't want to be annoying.
<Skipp_OSX> change the shape colors around play with it a bit. I haven't gotten the good one working quite yet.
<_Dario_> but the part about changing colors looks fine
<Skipp_OSX> and the "color containers" accept color drops and they should hopefully persist across the different pickers
<_Dario_> the only thing apparently don't work is the bunch of squares that I guess is to keep track of the last custom colors
<Skipp_OSX> Simple supports dragging (kinda) but best way to test color drops is using Colors! app
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<Skipp_OSX> you save your favorite colors there
<_Dario_> so, that 40 boxes are not to save the custom color created using the slide bars
<Skipp_OSX> quite useful for swapping colors around, works with Appearance prefs
<Skipp_OSX> well for simple you can drag and drop from the rectangle yes but the others
<_Dario_> is just to "drop" there colors from other application, like the Colors! one that you mention
<Skipp_OSX> but NOT the others
<Skipp_OSX> yeah it's just to drop colors and drag after they are there
<_Dario_> ok, got it
<Skipp_OSX> simple can drag and drop but the square is white sometimes (known bug)
<_Dario_> sorry, after an entire day of work, my brain is not in the best shape
<Skipp_OSX> pick simple, drag and drop from preview rect into a square
<_Dario_> Ok, using the "siple" picker, when try to drag and drop from the big color box (the preview one) into one of the 40 boxes, didn't work.
<_Dario_> If I do the oposite, (one of the 40 blank boxes into the preview one), works.
<Skipp_OSX> so you can make the rectangle white but can't make the squares colored ?
<Skipp_OSX> sounds like it
<Skipp_OSX> simple might need some code updates
<_Dario_> Exactly
<Skipp_OSX> ok but live works, cancel works that's good
<Skipp_OSX> live updating I mean
<_Dario_> yes, I can change the colors to the three shapes (triangle, square and circle), from the Client's main window.
<Skipp_OSX> ok well that's the feature pretty much
<_Dario_> :)
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