<zard>
Nice, especially the Cackerspace project :)
<coolcoder613>
*Hackerpsace
<phschafft>
nephele: I had a look at BMessage this morning, specifically the on-disk format. It seems that the current implementation just dumps it's memory. there is no proper serialisation/deserialisation code. so as for now I need to consider the on-disk format non-portable.
<zard>
Aye, else I've invented a fancy new word ;)
<coolcoder613>
zard: If you have an openai API key you can try it out
<coolcoder613>
Just need to fill in the API key and the assintant ID in the .env fiel
<coolcoder613>
*file
<coolcoder613>
**assistant
* zard
is still working on haikuwebkit
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<zard>
Speaking of which, I may have a post to make...
<coolcoder613>
My recommended system prompt is one that tells it "You are an unhelpful assistant, and you try to amuse the user as much as possible without helping them"
<zard>
lol
<Nephele>
phschafft: not sure there phschafft :)
<Nephele>
but that sounds like something that would already bite you when switching endianess
<phschafft>
yes it will.
<Begasus>
screenies zard?? :D
<coolcoder613>
please
<Nephele>
zard:a new post? but mine is only up for an hour xD
<zard>
No worries, not a new blog post :P
<Nephele>
I haven't touched haikuwebkit in a while, also because i am looking at your progress :3
<Nephele>
(and I kind of want to work on the then webkit2 codebase to improve that)
<zard>
Been leaving behind comments. Hope they make it a lot easier :)
<Begasus>
+1
<zard>
Why don't the folks at WebKit leave it for us? Perhaps because they've worked on it so much that everything seems obvious
<zard>
aka, the "curse of knowledge": you forget what it is like for others who don't know what you do
<zard>
Or maybe they just don't have the time, who knows
<erysdren>
good morning
<erysdren>
i am Awake
<zard>
Welcome erysdren!
<Habbie>
hi Awaka, i'm dad
<Begasus>
heh
<Habbie>
*Awake
<Begasus>
Hi dad ;)
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* zard
whittles away errors to get WebKit to build to see if there's anything screenshot-worthy yet
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<Begasus>
RAM hungy part of the build started ...
<phschafft>
hi awake-erysdren ;)
<zard>
"[20008/23556]" O.O. And I thought WebKit took long to build
<Begasus>
haven't gotten as far with that on WebKit zard :)
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<Nephele>
zard: comments? :D
<Nephele>
"This doesn't work, why? has it ever?"
* zard
fails to find that comment
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* OscarL
drop-kicks the 32 bits HaikuPorts buildmaster in the DIMMs.
<phschafft>
em...
<Nephele>
zard: It's a joke. It is a comment in the source code of team fortress 2. There is a video about that (after their code got leaked) called "The dwindeling sanity of valve programmers expressed through source code comments"
<Nephele>
or something similar, the video title I mean
<erysdren>
this is mostly psuedocode, but it's an idea i had to make "scriptable" haiku GUI applications
<erysdren>
basically a lua binding to the Application Kit, like coolcoder's PyAPI
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<Begasus>
biab
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* OscarL
half-remembers BeOS 5.1 decorators using embedded Lua under the hood.
<erysdren>
i wonder if more people would make Haiku applications if you could whip them up in lua
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<OscarL>
having more options is always nice, but I wouldn't expect the number of apps going up by much from the "Lua-Haiku" dev intersection Venn driagram.
<erysdren>
fair :P
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<Begasus>
re, for a bit :)
<OscarL>
erysdren: I'd probably do more apps, if I had a *native* Delphi-like GUI designer tool (I'm even worse at GUI code than on any other form of code... imagine!)
<Begasus>
Hi OscarL! :)
<OscarL>
Hey there Begasus! :-)
<Begasus>
those last 3k objects will hurt for qtwebengine ;)
<OscarL>
too bad "the web" got so fat :-(
<erysdren>
very true
<Begasus>
add to that bloat from llvm and icu :P
<phschafft>
for me C++ is surely a reason to keep away from native Haiku code.
<phschafft>
any additional *good* binding will help. yet doesn't mean they should have the same focus.
<Begasus>
OscarL, we got lazarus now? :)
<Nephele>
C++ is kind of hard to make bindings for, unless your language has some kind of native interop
<Nephele>
erysdren: good luck. I have written some on-haiku-running software in lua on love2d which uses SDL2 but that is still a bit "eh"
<Nephele>
not sure if a native wrapper would improve that
<OscarL>
Begasus: sure... if you give me a GUI designer so I can help adding a GUI designer to Genio! (wait...)
<Begasus>
excuses ... tss :P
<Nephele>
There is already the alm layout editor. Something similar can be made for normal layouts too
<Nephele>
though having this be genio specific would be kind of sad, limits the application quite a bit :/
<Begasus>
as a plugin nephele?
* OscarL
got spoiled by late 90s, early 00s absolute peak of RAD tools.
<Begasus>
k, heading out for a bit, bbl
<Nephele>
Begasus: No. a plugin is even more specific to a programm. Something like a replicant or just simply a normal application doing that job would be better. Nothing is stopping genion from the loading it into it's adress space as a view then
<OscarL>
The equivalent of Delphi 2 (or 7), but with Python's syntax, targetting BeAPI first and foremost, would make jump of joy :-D
<bjorkint0sh>
OscarL: what about smalltalk on BeOS?
<bjorkint0sh>
I wonder if that ever existed.
<OscarL>
never done more than just a cursory read on smalltalk :-/
<Anarchos>
hello
<erysdren>
well, i got the basic integration working of just one type. sol2 really makes it super easy
<erysdren>
and it works on haiku too
<bjorkint0sh>
why python's syntax in particular, OscarL? is it just a question of familiarity?
<erysdren>
i assume so. i feel like Lua's syntax is just as good for the task
<erysdren>
more or less
<OscarL>
bjorkint0sh: I started with ObjectPascal, loved it. Then started reading C and C++ code... hated it, but made me also hate ObjectPascal verbosity. Python' hits closer to what I consider ideal.
<erysdren>
here is a super basic program using sol2 to integrate a random BeAPI type (BRect) into lua. https://0x0.st/XpQF.cpp
<bjorkint0sh>
my ideal is (lisp like)
<erysdren>
in lua, you can use it this way: local rect = BRect:new(100, 100, 400, 400)
<bjorkint0sh>
very consistent. super easy to parse.
<erysdren>
i'd be more concerned about how easy it is to write
<bjorkint0sh>
what, lisp?
<erysdren>
yes
<erysdren>
maybe i'm just biased against lisp
<bjorkint0sh>
maybe.
<bjorkint0sh>
it is from 1959 afterall.
<bjorkint0sh>
old and decrepit :-)
<erysdren>
nothing wrong with that. i write C and Pascal a lot and those are from the 70s
<bjorkint0sh>
it's quite easy.
<bjorkint0sh>
(operator argument1 ... argumentN)
<OscarL>
I dislike even Python's use of ":" when it doesn't *really* needes it. Not a fun of braces or parenthesis on certain languages :-). "aesthetics" is part of what makes a language more or less enjoyable to me. For looking at ugly things... I have the mirror already.
<bjorkint0sh>
consistent throughout since the early '60s.
<OscarL>
but... "beauty is on the eyes of the..." and all that, of course.
<bjorkint0sh>
yes OscarL. I'm quite certain to a warthog, any other beast appears hideous.
<zard>
erysdren: Managing the lifetimes of objects may be just as hard if not harder than writing the actual API
<zard>
Haiku-PyAPI currently mostly just keeps objects alive forever and so avoids the issue atm
<zard>
So it would be interesting to see how easy/hard it would be for sol2
<FreeFull>
Pascal is technically slightly older than C
<FreeFull>
But old C and old Pascal are both quite different from how you'd write them nowadays
<erysdren>
yeah, pascal started in 1970 and C in 1972 iirc
<OscarL>
and some day C will learn to have the modules/units pascal had all along!
<erysdren>
someday...
<erysdren>
i don't know much pascal tbh. i've been learning it a bit with FPC just because i find it cool
<bjorkint0sh>
OscarL: well, C++ 23 has modules.
<bjorkint0sh>
it's just that ... the compilers haven't caught up to it yet.
<bjorkint0sh>
I found out the hard way after buying strustrup's latest book.
<zard>
Samba may work. It's available to install and it is what is used to setup Samba shares on Linux
<surface1>
Begasus put that SAMBA4 package on haikudepot :)
<surface1>
Begasus should solve the problem :)
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<Begasus>
if it isn't tested properly it's no use to add it ;)
<Begasus>
PR is up for that though, one can always build
<OscarL>
we're waiting for confirmation it works... thus why we need you to test it! (don't wan't to make it explode on OUR computers! :-D)
<Begasus>
lol
<surface1>
Begasus, tell me the true, you are the real tester :)
<Begasus>
I test what I "can" :P
* OscarL
installs all updated versions of flit_core, pyproject_hooks, packaging, and build packages, to test if "build"ing other packages recipes still work. Sigh.
<Begasus>
enjoy OscarL :D
<surface1>
OscarL install also SAMBA4 :)
<Begasus>
OscarL, you could check new PR for gdb ;)
<surface1>
OscarL: just enjoy the trip
<OscarL>
nah! got sshfs working yesterday... good enough for me :-)
<OscarL>
Begasus: mmm "ir build_" didn't gave me the results I was looking for :-P
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<OscarL>
"ir 'build_$py'", there we go!
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<erysdren>
sol2 not interacting well with the gigantic BApplication class :(
<Begasus>
trungnt2910[m], is the source as big as you repository? iirc it was quite large ;)
<zard>
He he, looks like sol2 has rough edges, just like PyBind11 :/
<erysdren>
wait, im silly
<erysdren>
it's because i'm already running sol2 from inside a BApplication
<erysdren>
probably can't spawn another one :P
<zard>
Ah, that makes it easier :)
<Begasus>
I guess once gdb is good enough to replace our current it will stay up for many years, wouldn't want to re-aply that patch on a newer version trungnt2910[m] ;)
<Begasus>
bugger build failed
<OscarL>
Begasus: my recipes changes are good enough as to be able to rebuild: "whatever", "yt_dlp", "dateutil", and "meson-python" packages. All recipes that need "build_python3xx". Sounds good enough to start opening PRs?
<OscarL>
Welp, considering you're running it without hardware acceleration, that sounds about right.
<OscarL>
hopefully the GSoC work will help with that!
<Begasus>
me hopes so too! :D
<OscarL>
(given AMD virt supports gets added)
<Begasus>
few lessons learned here too last week, mount local drive in qemu (together with the OS) and created a virtual drive I coppied haikuport(s/er) from the local drive in qemu, now can use haikuporter in there without cloning etc
<Begasus>
and plus is, I can hook up the virtual drive to another clean image to check some things there :)
<OscarL>
+1
<Begasus>
but I'm not going to build gdb in that virtual env :P
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<OscarL>
I was planning to share a single "haikuports" image between my 32 and 64 installs too, but HaikuPorter doesn't plays nice with a single tree like that :-(
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<Begasus>
you should setup a clone for haikuports for either arch, eg 2 clones to seperate them
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<OscarL>
sounds terrible.
<Begasus>
otherwise you end up updating dependencies on every switch
<OscarL>
better if haikuporter either used a "repository" for each main arch, IMO.
<Begasus>
only have to do that once, copy the other and rename
<OscarL>
yeah, I mean.... it should just work. One of these days I'll try to add that "feature".
<Begasus>
it has to know what the target architecture it needs to build for, but if you can fix that, the better :D
<OscarL>
same as just downloading .hpkg into /packages/, instead of doing "pkgman install" ouside the chroot :-/
<OscarL>
I should still have a branch for "pkgman-download-command" somewhere with some WIP for that :-)
<OscarL>
still, not reall need for using pkgmam/packagekit for the package download part, only to get the list of needed deps.
<Begasus>
you would only get those mentioned in the recipe/packagelist I guess?
<OscarL>
say... recipes wants package A, hp asks pkgman to install that, but A also needs B and C... recipe won't know that.
<erysdren>
here's some psuedocode i wrote earlier. my goal is to get this to work :P
<erysdren>
i got a few basic classes translated (BRect, BPoint) using sol2
<erysdren>
sol2 kinda does all the heavy lifting for me, but some things need special care.
<Habbie>
neat, i've been wanting to try sol2
<Habbie>
10 years ago we (powerdns) bet on LuaWrapper, and like these things often go, now we maintain LuaWrapper :>
<erysdren>
a less BeAPI-specific example which could be translated to other GUI toolkits: https://0x0.st/Xpef.lua
<erysdren>
actually wrote this example to use in a TUI thing i'm also hacking on.
<erysdren>
i'm just all over the place today :P
<Habbie>
hehe
<Habbie>
you should port Flutter to both Haiku and Lua ;)
<erysdren>
i like Lua, so i think it'd be a neat idea to have a platform "independent" GUI toolkit thing. i've looked at a handful of different platform toolkits and some of them are shockingly similar in their API.
<scantysnax>
here's what i've been working on for a while (posted this the other day) https://0x0.st/XpqN.png
<erysdren>
ohhh that's awesome!
<erysdren>
i really wish i could use Haiku more actively on real hardware, but Haiku doesn't support my USB wifi dongle :(
<Habbie>
'Adjust Palette' is part of it? because i was about to say (noticed it before) some of the colours look off to me
<erysdren>
otherwise i'd be devving my GUI thing on hardware instead of in QEMU
<Habbie>
while ignoring, like often, that mario 1 was never meant to be played on a display with distinguishable pixels at all ;)
<scantysnax>
yeah, you can adjust the palette to your wishes
<erysdren>
tldr most OS gui toolkits (and some for linux) boil down to a simple init/message/quit loop
<erysdren>
i feel like you could abstract it somewhat well. to do it in a scripting language rather than C or C++ would be even better.
<scantysnax>
what's shown in the screenshot is the default NTSC palette.
<Habbie>
as in, nintendo's palette for NTSC?
<scantysnax>
yes
<Habbie>
right
<Habbie>
i'm in PAL, but also i haven't seen non-emulated mario1 in 15 years
<scantysnax>
ah, been a while
<scantysnax>
we migiht support PAL, but that's something for later on
<scantysnax>
might*
<Habbie>
colorwise that seems minor, timingwise perhaps a bit more work?
<Habbie>
oh, it was 2013. almost 15 years :)
<scantysnax>
yeah, timing is one of our priorities. currently all system components are emulated on a cycle per cycle level
<scantysnax>
so it is very accurate
<scantysnax>
just takes some horsepower.
<Habbie>
i think i saw that in the readme, yhes
<Habbie>
-h
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<scantysnax>
we are currently improving the sound code, and i have some extra video code to write since we have to use 16-bit color to accommodate the 9-bit palette we need
<scantysnax>
6 bits per palette entry plus 3 bits for "color intensity", which basically allows you to access other colors than the standard palette
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<scantysnax>
very few games used it.
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<scantysnax>
also, some games used cycle-timed code, which we emulate properly.
<Habbie>
so those will properly half FPS when too many sprites appear :)
<Habbie>
*halve
<scantysnax>
there is a limit of 8 sprites per scanline. anything more and you get slow downs
<scantysnax>
you can do tricks like OAM (sprite) cycling to remedy that
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<Habbie>
ack - was just recalling something i read about a game that would in fact get half FPS when it got busy
<scantysnax>
interesting.
<scantysnax>
haven't seen that on the NES
<Habbie>
oh! i assumed i was referring to something you'd know about :D let me see if i can find it
<scantysnax>
you are right about the slow downs, but it not nearly as much as halving the FPS
<Habbie>
i can't find it, sadly
<scantysnax>
that's OK, thanks for trying :-)
<Habbie>
i think it was something along the lines of (and this should not be a surprising story to you as an emulator developer), they missed a tick and thus you got halved
<Habbie>
but it was something that even happened on the real device
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<scantysnax>
anyways, nice chatting. need to do some errands, then dinner... be back later tonight
<Habbie>
yes, enjoyable! have a good night
<scantysnax>
thanks! you as well :-)
<tiberius>
If one, hypothetically, installed a nightly image, would that person be able to upgrade the system later?
<Habbie>
tiberius, i upgraded my non-nightly to nightly and have done a few upgrades after - not exactly what you asked, but i'm pretty sure the answer is "yes"
<tiberius>
that's awesome, because I am that person :DDD
<tiberius>
it's amazing how usable Haiku is, I installed it on my T460
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<OscarL>
tiberius: I have a Haiku install that started as a beta2 clean re-installation (same machine had alpha4 at some point). updated/upgraded to beta4, then switch to nightlies. No real issues there.
<OscarL>
(still updating fine as of 1 or 2 days ago)
<OscarL>
meanwhile... "rm -r haikuports/dev-vcs/subversion/work-1.14.3" started 30 minutes ago, and still doesn't finishes :-(
<OscarL>
Got bored of waiting, and been helping delete files from tracker for the last 10 minutes...
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<Nephele>
tiberius: Maybe, maybe not. The upgrade path from beta4->beta5 is guranteed, but anything between that probably works, but is not that tested and not guranteed
<Nephele>
e.g in the past the package format changed, and then some nightlies can't be upgraded anymore (because the format of the newest nightlies is too new), but upgrading to the next beta should normally work
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<trungnt2910[m]>
<Begasus> "trungnt2910, is the source as..." <- nowhere near the repo, though it is very big.
<trungnt2910[m]>
<Begasus> "trungnt2910: build error on..." <- Yeah it requires newer Haiku. The patches are not too big so they could be backported, though with B5 coming out soon I guess it's better to wait.