<OscarL>
Firefox updates, and shows me a "World-class multitasking" page :-/
<Begasus>
takes a multitasking guy to use it?
* Begasus
ducks
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<Nephele>
OscarL, I doubt anything firefox is world class at this point
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<phschafft>
consider the alternatives.
<phschafft>
maybe it is world class, just that the world is not very classy.
<OscarL>
Kinda wish to run BeZilla again, from a RAM drive... even when I had only 256 MB of it :-)
<OscarL>
now it seems I have to either use a VM, or read a webpage :-(
* Nephele
wants to avoid any rants about Haiku having to fit in N Mb of Ram
<phschafft>
nephele++
* phschafft
in mean time thinks: wow, 1MB... so much RAM! What could I store in it! I don't even get my 16KB full!
<Nephele>
Indeed! But Ram is very usefull, so much more if it is used. I think it is quite wierd to assert "haiku uses 1gb of my 4gb of ram THEREFORE it is bloated"
<Nephele>
instead of checking how much it uses if you actually have 1gb of ram :)
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<phschafft>
RAM not used is just burning fossil fuels
<Nephele>
phschafft, I want to get a bit more into hardware myself, to port haiku to more intel macbooks
<Nephele>
i figure the official support will be shelved at some point, so would be really cool to offer haiku as an alternative ;)
* phschafft
nods.
<phschafft>
sounds like a good idea.
<phschafft>
we shouldn't keep outdated stuff alive for no good reason. but apple is known for dropping support way before the hardware gone bad.
<Nephele>
well, i think the "good reason" is "it can run haiku reasonably well". I'm not going to port it to my ibm portable pc. or to powerbooks :)
<Nephele>
2012 macbook pro not supporting metal is not a good reason why it can't work as a excelent haiku machine imo
<phschafft>
nephele: my comment was more towards people still using tube based rectifiers for their PSUs.
<OscarL>
I got another Atom based "half-netbook" (no screen). 2C/4T, 2 GB of RAM... Can't properly setup Haiku on it thou, as video signal is not sent to VGA nor HDMI, no matter what I try :-( (when it doesn't just hangs)
<Nephele>
I recall reading that one should wear safety goggle when servicing the ibm portable pc, because tantalum capacitors tend to blow up
<Nephele>
OscarL, but linux works?
<phschafft>
(yes, I have personally seen people finnally replace a tube based PSU about 5 years ago. it took around 15kW to output like 4kW. All to generate a 100W signal at around 8MHz ;)
<OscarL>
VoidLinux should (once I properly install syslinux :-D)
<Nephele>
well, my question was more geared towards linux beeing able to output video
<Nephele>
if it can might be interesting to see what driver
<OscarL>
nephele: will probably turn it into a router+pihole+forgejo+kiwix server (has 1 ethernet, plus 2 minipci sockets, so... dual WiFi! :-D)
<Nephele>
phschafft, the OG macbook has a dual core, 1GB of ram. 80GB hard drive, replaceable battery :3
<phschafft>
nephele: I recently have seen a little documentation on how electrolytic capacitors were good, then got bad, and are now good again. so the blowing up stuff seems to be only a phase in which we did not fully know what we were doing.
<phschafft>
so the devices that have blowing up caps right now could be the last generation that has that problem.
<OscarL>
yeah... linux shows proper video output, a surprise, given the crappy GMA3600 PowerVR crap it has onboard.
<Nephele>
phschafft, well, that doesn't stop them from *not* blowing up xD
<Nephele>
i'm not suprised by linux not supporting something, more suprised if it doesn't.
<Nephele>
s/not/
* phschafft
wonders if he could run BeOS on his canon laptop of the time.
<OscarL>
tried the same netbook in the past.... PowerVR/gma500 driver was not properly supported (any longer) on the distros I've tried then.
<Nephele>
I actually like the touch bar :)
<phschafft>
hm.
<Nephele>
i can't see haiku supporting this "well", realistically
* phschafft
then nods and gets a little bit more into his optimisation of that UTF-8 code.
* coolcoder613
wonders if he told OscarL about his "new" XP gaming PC
<Nephele>
eXtra professional
<OscarL>
hey there coolcoder613! I think I read something about it yesterday (or the day before), but just in passing.
<Nephele>
lol apple released a laptop *in 2007* that has the resolution of my desktop monitor i use today
<coolcoder613>
So I had this desktop, and had a GPU in it, and had Windows XP (and Haiku) on it
<coolcoder613>
for a while
<coolcoder613>
but just recently I installed the drivers for my GPU
<coolcoder613>
Installed SP3
<coolcoder613>
and a bunch of games
<Nephele>
phschafft, what is your opinion on using or detecting CPU features?
<Nephele>
I think the gentoo aproach of "compile everything for *only this machine*" is kind of interesting, but really wastefull
<OscarL>
coolcoder613: I stuck with 98SE for waaay too long. Think I got into XP just in 2012, when I got this mobo :-D
<Nephele>
haiku tries to detect cpu features before using them, but perhaps we could do that more and make some stuff run better or more efficient on newer cpus
<OscarL>
coolcoder613: classic theme, best (no)theme.
<coolcoder613>
and I played Age of Empires 3 all day today
<phschafft>
nephele: a binary should be compiled by the distributor, and no user should ever run a compiler.
<phschafft>
nephele: CPU feature detection *is* a way. but keep in mind that e.g. gcc has some good support for that already.
<phschafft>
so gcc can already provide code optimised for different cases (all packed in one binary with you not knowing that there are multiple variants of something). You can also use that feature to provide your own code paths IF you really need to.
<Nephele>
oh nice, did not know that about gcc
<phschafft>
you could even use that support of gcc to detect which OS version you're running on and transparently replacing functions with optimised code without the caller knowing it!
<OscarL>
BeOS had a .patch file for the kernel, and one for libroot.so, where you could patch, say, memcpy, so it used SSE on some CPUs (cause of problems with AMD cpus when they added SSE support :-D)
<Nephele>
my email server maintenance improved massively when i did no longer need to compile dovecot myself xD
<phschafft>
;)
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* OscarL
wishes is_computer_on_fire() would return true right now. darn cold.
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<phschafft>
Nephele: btw. if you're looking for it, the magic is part of the function attributes.
<phschafft>
and is supported for a good while now.
<OscarL>
libgd switched to libwebp (from libvpx) in 2015, somehow our gnuplot kept (wrongly) requiring livpx all these years. sigh.
<OscarL>
(gnuplot should only require libgd, not libvpx anyway)
* phschafft
nods.
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<OscarL>
listing transitive dependencies as direct dependencies should merit at least a proper troutslap, right?
<phschafft>
I mean there might have been a reason for it back in the day (e.g. libgd not declaring it correctly). And those kind of things seem to keep around until they break something.
<phschafft>
so maybe just open a ticket and ask for a cleanup.
<OscarL>
I have a PR in draft since... Oct 5, 2023. giving it another go now :-)
<OscarL>
(so Begasus can merge it and stop complaining about /me having too many PRs as draft :-P)
<phschafft>
hm.
<phschafft>
kcachegrind tells me that my manual unrolling seems to help.
<Nephele>
ios: crop photos fine, has a revert button if needed. Android: crop photos by clicking crop, and then clicking crop again, save it, get asked if you really want to save (with a note it can be reverted) OR you want to save it a s copy
<phschafft>
115 reads -> 21 reads
<phschafft>
with just one if() added.
<Nephele>
android could be a lot better if they took some more care in their UI design
<phschafft>
hm.
<phschafft>
and the real bad news is that they're still way up on the list on how much a company cares.
<Nephele>
the sad part is that both systems can basically do the same thing, achieve the same goal, but there are so many examples of how it is so much easier on iOS
<Nephele>
take sharing content to a *samsung* TV, on iOS: click the share button, select TV; on samsung phone: click the share button: get *three permission prompts* for location, network access etc with no explanation, a consent form, and then maybe you can select the tv
<phschafft>
let's see how much difference this makes on the FLASH level of things.
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<phschafft>
32 byte.
<phschafft>
seems to work really well.
* OscarL
steals one of phschafft's cookies, and presents it to phschafft as reward for his efforts!
<Begasus>
lol
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<Begasus>
ECM 6.4.0-rc1 and kirigami 6.4.0-rc1 with Haruna (tricking the frameworks?) :P https://0x0.st/XMML.2.png
<OscarL>
"waiting for build package gnuplot-5.4.10-1 to be deactivated"... what a pain in the rear.
<Begasus>
whoops :D
<Begasus>
tried that fix the other day from mmlr on that topic OscarL
<Begasus>
it worked then :)
<OscarL>
I kinda recall a comment by mmlr, but not the details.
<Begasus>
sleep(3) or something, need to have a look at the issue (which I think was closed)
<OscarL>
btw, Begasus... if you're bored... libgd should require libwep, not libvpx (if not bored enough... remind me later :-D)
* OscarL
runs hp --test gnuplot... gnuplot_x11 crashes a lot :-/
<OscarL>
wish we could setup debug_server's auto-kill actions from inside the .recipe chroot
<Begasus>
I would go with "hp gnuplot --test" :)
<Begasus>
as I would have done "hp gnuplot" already :P
<OscarL>
mmm lost track of debugger crash dialog among all the open windows.
<OscarL>
(and it doesn't shows on Deskbar)
* OscarL
adds "/sources/*/gnuplot_x11kill" to debug_server/settings file. it is most effective.
<Begasus>
that's cheating! :P
<OscarL>
Weee, lots of pretty graphics... heh, even Lena passed by.
<OscarL>
will add a comment to the recipe (as it's done for Python's and Git's)
<Begasus>
added to boost1.85 also, so I wont forget and skip the tests next time :)
<OscarL>
doesn't even outputs a test result summary :-/
<Begasus>
nuked it here, so it didn't even get there :P
<Begasus>
but yeah, would be nice for a summary
<OscarL>
not even a log file :-(
<OscarL>
kinda useless TEST() then.
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<Begasus>
Warning: POLICY WARNING: "/packaging/breeze_icons/lib/libKF6BreezeIcons.so.6" needs library "libQt6Core.so.6", but the package doesn't seem to declare that as a requirement
<Begasus>
it's strange ... it's already in REQUIRED ...
<Begasus>
REQUIRES* :)
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<OscarL>
k. pushed a comment for gnuplot's TEST() (and a minor tweak to make it build a bit faster).
<OscarL>
should be goood to merge (and let the buildmasters check the 32 bits build).
<phschafft>
Habbie: thank you. got some good ideas from you. :)
<Habbie>
ohh which ones
<Habbie>
i just said whatever came to mind
<phschafft>
the one about extends outside the main data range of the file system for inodes with overlong data.
<Habbie>
ah
<phschafft>
;)
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<Nephele>
phschafft, ?
<phschafft>
hm?
<Nephele>
you mentioned me above :)
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<phschafft>
I just thanked both of you for your good input.
<Habbie>
:)
<Nephele>
ah :)
<Nephele>
i understand now, you were trying to escape the newline... well, i don't like the term "line oriented protocol" but irc and gemini fit this discription
<Nephele>
i don't think newlines should be a protocol thing
<phschafft>
nephele: I do it in that way because some clients miss the highlight otherwise. so it's not about the protocol at all, it's purly a workaround for for some clients.
<Nephele>
ah, i see
<Nephele>
sad clients
<phschafft>
and I do it every time as I don't want to waste my brain knowing who runs a buggy clients. ;)
<Nephele>
well, i'm using xchat. not that i like it
<Nephele>
🧌
<phschafft>
:)
<Nephele>
this "emoji" has bad contrast on black. Why is that? why can't i install noto emoji on macos? >:(
<Raweden>
That emoji doesn't even show up on Haiku :(
<Nephele>
noto emoji is such a glorious font. With no skintone or gender modifiers the glyphs are generic enough to include everyone, and not some *specific* mentioned group
<Nephele>
blob emoji are actually a nice idea
<Nephele>
too bad i can't drag and drop an image into this chat. Well, maybe i can in two days :D
<Raweden>
nephele, will have to reinstall that font. wiped my install recently after running the wrong pkgman command ;)
<Nephele>
Raweden, i'm not sure actually if the newest version is shipped with haiku or not
<Nephele>
hard to tell when google doesn't version their fonts
<phschafft>
hm.
<Raweden>
in my POV i find the B/W emoji a little bit boring in comparistion of color emojis
<Nephele>
well, personally i think the bw ones are much better (they adapt to the font color, font size, font *weight*, yes bold emoji!)
<Nephele>
and since haiku has no colored emojis anyway. and supporting those bascially boils down to "add this image inline" i'm a bit biased against adding them
<Nephele>
but yes, they are a bit boring ;)
<Raweden>
nephele, more or less yes. In Haiku's case i've actually looked into what it would take to support them :)
<PulkoMandy>
There are actually color fonts which are multiple layer of single-color glyphs (that was developped by Microsoft as it fit their ui guidelines at the time)
<PulkoMandy>
Not sure if there is any emoji font using that, however (or if there should be)
<Nephele>
maybe there are. Personally i always thought microsoft emoji are stylistically somewhat ugly
<Nephele>
What's the unit SetPulseRate() uses? The docs don't seem to mention this
<Raweden>
nephele, I agree :)
<Nephele>
Hmm, i'm confused. AboutSystem uses SetPulseRate only once, and makes no distinction for the replicant and normal view. Why is the replicant pulsing so rapidly compared to the non-replicant then? is this a bug?
<Nephele>
to try this out: put aboutsystem replicant on your desktop and open say webpositive and see how *fast* the ram usage updates
<Nephele>
now it doesn't reproduce anymore. i feel robbed
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<Nephele>
but atleast they don't update their seconds uptime meter in sync. That seems quite bad for battery use :D
<phschafft>
which also nicely fits into the description of BWindow::SetPulseRate().
<Nephele>
why is the cmos battery below the system fan :(
<phschafft>
so it's always well cooled ;)
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<Nephele>
thanks
<Nephele>
wouldn't be as tragic if a) the bios wouldn' tell me *every time* the time is wrong and b) ntp on boot actually worked
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<Nephele>
just waiting to ram my mainboard and destroy it two days before the sprint :D
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<AlienSoldier>
i don't see haiku OS part in software updater, the 32bit build is broken?
<Nephele>
AlienSoldier, what do you mean by that?
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<Nephele>
phschafft, i managed to replace the cmos battery *without* having to remove the system fan (and apply new cooling paste, *i don't have*) yay
<phschafft>
ha! perfect :))
<phschafft>
cooling paste is the worst. I always avoid messing with it.
<Nephele>
Well, i just don't own any. If i want to replace a fan i will acquire some then. But i don't like the prospect of dissasembeling something only to realize you can't reassemble it without redoing some component
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<PulkoMandy>
Tell my bicycle about that :(
<AlienSoldier>
nephele i don't see OS component in the list of package to be installed, no webpositive either, and i am surely not up to date.
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<Nephele>
PulkoMandy, your bicycle?
<Nephele>
are there some components you can't replace easily?
<Nephele>
AlienSoldier, it looks like for nightlies they are build properly. are you on the beta?
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<AlienSoldier>
nephele no, nightly
<Nephele>
the last nightly to download is hrev57804
<AlienSoldier>
my last kernel is from the 3 jully
<Nephele>
do you have that? if not is the package repo active for haiku?
<AlienSoldier>
that is what i have, that explain it :)
<AlienSoldier>
wanted to test the subtitle fix in 57810, i guess i will wait a bit more.
<Nephele>
:)
<Nephele>
i have no idea what my hrev is xD
<Nephele>
probably a bit older, but i usually build it myself sporadically
<Raweden_>
hrev57804 is from the 4th July
<B2IA>
(Butler) Welcome to BeShare.agmsmith.ca.
<Nephele>
i was butler would tell me who they are welcoming
<Nephele>
actually, it would be cool to see a list of "requirements" that would be needed to replace beshared
<Nephele>
maybe equivalents can be added to renga
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