<Calisto>
wow im so anxious to see what you have to say <embarassed>
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<Begasus>
or just check the active window only
* Calisto
waits anxiously
<Begasus>
Hi nephele
<Calisto>
right now its not exactly functional just working on the column resizing and everything
<Nephele>
Begasus: wow, my client wasn't even loaded in completely
<Nephele>
hi :)
<Begasus>
w00t, that's a lot of options :D
<Calisto>
i have to still do the part where it only shows for attributes etc.
<Calisto>
yeahhh I was just trying to add in a lot to see whether it works in all situations :(
* Calisto
waits anxiously for Begasus's review :)
<Calisto>
it still needs to be aligned to the bottom rather than the top and a few other thigns
<Begasus>
if it works like this it probably will too when having less :)
<Calisto>
but still have to do those things to make it more in line with the GSoC proposal :)
<Begasus>
heh, I'm not a reviewer Calisto :)
<Calisto>
Begasus: yup it should work easily with lower options
<Calisto>
Begasus: no as in a general like opinion :)
<Calisto>
like whatever comes to your mind :P
<Begasus>
well, for some it "could" be handy to add another option, I don't know if that works?
<Calisto>
another option as in?
<Begasus>
Calisto, I mostly only use some basic searches with it, not like some other do :)
<Begasus>
dir + type + date + extentions (or something in that order)
<Nephele>
Calisto: I'm quite confused what the + and - buttons are supposed to do
<Begasus>
some would be fine like with "dir + extentions"
<Calisto>
oh they just add in search terms below that one or remove the current one..
<Calisto>
much like what was there on the thread
<Calisto>
on the forum
<Calisto>
basically just adding whatever we had discussed there
<Nephele>
also no indication of which of these components work as an AND, a OR, a XOR etc. i see 4 columns which seems to imply some meaning but uhh not sure
<Calisto>
ohhhh yah that part is still having to be added :)
<Calisto>
same like on the forum thread, you can click on the columns and select AND OR NOT
<Calisto>
like first column AND second column AND third Column OR 4th column
<Calisto>
whatever the query is
<Nephele>
i didn't read the forum thread, i'm just going off your screenshot. It seems confusing, there are too many buttons
<Nephele>
sure but...the columns also need to define what their relation is
<Calisto>
yup.. basically what will eventually be there is that the column titles will have the (AND) (OR) (NOT) thing
<Nephele>
inside this column it is an OR or XOR operation for example
<Calisto>
yup that can be selected through the dropdown
<Calisto>
the labels still need to be fixed
<Nephele>
AND makes sense to me OR and XOR do too, but how does NOT make sense?
<Calisto>
it will eventually be something like
<Calisto>
Contains <search term> Or contains
<Calisto>
like the labels will adjust as per what you select
<Calisto>
so it will be directly visible inside the column
<Calisto>
kinda like contains and contains or contains and contains
<Calisto>
currently it just shows contains for everything
<Nephele>
using the dropdown for that ... eh i dunno
<Nephele>
what do the plus buttons do?
<Calisto>
they add in more search terms below the one you clicked on
<Calisto>
the - removes the current search term
<Nephele>
why? Wouldn't it be much easier to have a plus at the bottom once?
<Nephele>
the order should not matter in a column
<Calisto>
I mean the order matters now as well right? in the current Find Panel
<Calisto>
especially if you are mixing in AND and OR
<Nephele>
if the order matters then you need to be able to reorder them
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<Calisto>
yahhh that was mainly why i had kept the + button for each entry because it allows you to add in a search term wherever
<Calisto>
rather than just at the end
<Nephele>
for mixing or and and i'd probably use a simpler design where a column can either be OR AND or XOR, for all it's members, set per column
<Calisto>
where each column can have only one option?
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus a48c5b6 - tuxpaint, bump version (#10710)
<Nephele>
Calisto: well, right now you have 4 columns right? one design could be making that 4 rows instead for example, then you can add more rows if needed
<Nephele>
I'd set the type of row 1 to XOR for example, and then add in mime = audio/ogg, mime=audio/mp4 etc
<Nephele>
and then with row 2 i could say audiowatchtime=<1minute or something like then
<Nephele>
and then row 3 personal rating > 3
<Calisto>
ohhh okayy but then that can't match with the attributes below right?
<Calisto>
the main idea behind this one was going to be that you can match each column with its attribute below
<Nephele>
not sure what you mean by match with attributes?
<Calisto>
like the first column the changes you make there would reflect with the name
<Calisto>
so suppose you have the name attribute below it
<Calisto>
then you can add in like
<Calisto>
contains "something" or contains "something else"
<Calisto>
and then the search filters to those
<Calisto>
or say you have a person filetype
<Calisto>
so you can set like name, company, and country as the three attributes you are searching by
<Calisto>
and each column would relate to each column
<Nephele>
The problem here is already if you want to filter stuff the column #2 in your example is already broken. querries can't filter for location
<Calisto>
yup yup currently like the columns weren't exact :)
<Calisto>
like thats the part i have to fix
<Calisto>
i was only making the columns maths
<Calisto>
match
<Calisto>
but eventually you can only run the columns on indexed attributes
<Nephele>
From a UI perspective it is not clear at all that the lower menu should have anything to do with it
<Nephele>
but... keep in mind we *Already* have type ahead filtering in tracker views, and it looks almost identical to the lower view
<Calisto>
nephele: as in that the columns match to the attributes below them?
<Nephele>
perhaps having a way to quickly click a column, and add an option to "filter this for *"
<Nephele>
Calisto: yes
<Nephele>
but generally I also don't think it makes much sense since they are not related
<Nephele>
just because i want to show rating of audio files, or the size of logs, doesn't mean i want to filter with them
<Nephele>
and as a result of choosing to display them i now loose a column
<Nephele>
and similarily if i want to search for them i have to add a column to the view
<Nephele>
the old filter results also supports type ahead filtering
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 0f9b6f8 - tuxpaint_config, bump version (#10711)
<Calisto>
nephele: but the type ahead filtering only allows you to search like by the name of the file if im not wrong right?
<Calisto>
nephele: In any case, I think I should have a conversation with Humdinger and decide what I should do... Most of this was going along with what we had come up with and had put into the proposal but in the case that it isn't going to be the best idea, I think we should come up with something else.
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<Calisto>
also like in the case that you just want to see like a column but not filter by it, you are saying that you would want that the column above it wasn't there at all right?
<Nephele>
Take the new e-mail querry for example
<Nephele>
there is a TO: column that is relevant to me but not to most other people, i would want to display it but generally not filter by it
<phschafft>
Good morning.
<Nephele>
Calisto: iirc type ahead filtering operates on the first column, and since you can reorder them live.... :)
<Nephele>
phschafft: still to be determined :D
<Begasus>
moin phschafft
<Calisto>
in that case wouldn't it be just leaving the field empty or are you saying that it is generally a bad idea to do that sort of thing?
<phschafft>
nephele: ?
<phschafft>
ah.
<Calisto>
because in terms of screen space or column space, the columns are going to be exactly above their attributes, so you can add just as many columns as you can see attributes in the results page
<Nephele>
Calisto: in your current design it is not clear that the columns are related, and as such it will be confusing if the columns above "jump around"
<Calisto>
ohhhhhh
<Calisto>
okay i got it nowww as to what you were trying to say
<Nephele>
Calisto: huh? that doesn't match the semantics of the result page at all, i can resize the colums small. if it's just rating for example, it will be rendered by 5 unicode starts
<Nephele>
stars
<Nephele>
but the querry above will be completely mangled if it now has to fit in such a narrow space
<Nephele>
phschafft: how are you? The xmpp sprint was fun btw. Met a cool developer, now he invited me to work on a network lib with him :)
<Calisto>
yah that was sort of a problem I was facing at the moment... like the columns do have a minimum size
<Nephele>
also will port his iOS xmpp client to the apple watch as time permits
<phschafft>
nephele: sounds fun. keep me updated. :)
<Calisto>
so are you saying that for the timebeing its better to simply port the find panel into the results page?
<Nephele>
Calisto: well, i think the 1:1 association is a bit meh, you can probably do this but i think such an association only makes sense when (from a ui perspective) they are actually the same thing
<phschafft>
nephele: was also wondering about something XMPP related yesterday. so have at least one $topic for our next meeting. ;)
<Nephele>
Calisto: Hmm, i don't know :D
<phschafft>
nephele: I'm fine, just that yesterday still is in my bones.
<Calisto>
oh alright ... I guess ill try and ask Humdinger and nielx[m] their thoughts as well
<Nephele>
I think it's good you design something new ! It does require iteration if you find problems in the design :) but that is nice too
<Nephele>
haiku strives on discussing such things
<Calisto>
I mean i've figured out how to do the incremental search to update the results view so that shouldn't be a problem :)
<Calisto>
the main thing is the UI
<Calisto>
so I guess I will try to spend more time on trying to fine tune it and get it to be more intuitive
<Calisto>
maybe Humdinger would be able to help out :D
* Nephele
wonders how he got suckered into beeing someone who "knows UI"
<Nephele>
sure, feel free to discuss it with those two, and if you want you can invite me too
* Calisto
anxiously starts typing out an email
<Calisto>
yupppp...
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<Nephele>
phschafft: well, in english you can ride an "ass"
<Calisto>
maybe we can continue this discussion on the forum thread as well :D
<Calisto>
so that everyone can see the conversation as well
<Calisto>
alright then.. for the time-being ill rollback the gerrit patch for the folder filtering and try and fix that
<Calisto>
after that it should be jsut the incremental search and this UI to fix :D
<Nephele>
uhh, maybe. I'm a bit warry of discussing technical stuff on the forum since that always turns into a shitsown, and someone demanding we port firefox
<Calisto>
xD
<Calisto>
oh okay
<Calisto>
i was thinking of just discussing the UI related things there :)
<Calisto>
because im pretty sure the chats in the IRC get lost :)
<Calisto>
in case they aren't checked on the log right?
<Nephele>
that's also technical, maybe even moreso because programmers think UI is someone elses job and then don't bother
<phschafft>
nephele: em.... yes....
<Nephele>
in the sense off just do whatever, aslong as it works technically, someone else will fix it
<botifico>
[haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 0bfa76c - tuxpaint_stamps, bump version (#10712)
<Calisto>
nephele: going with what you said... I just wanted to understand a bit more about what you meant by saying that the association only makes sense when they are the same thing?
<Calisto>
like are you saying that the columns should be essentially independent if they are like this?
<Begasus>
k, those are out (had been lying around for a few days here) :)
<Nephele>
Calisto: well, if you want input by them based on this discussion you can send the log above with a link to the current day
<Calisto>
is it a good idea to post the current screenshot?
<trungnt2910[m]>
> DMT is here for you, eventually
<trungnt2910[m]>
?
<Nephele>
Calisto: if you want feedback, sure.
<Calisto>
alright :)
<trungnt2910[m]>
Why is there such a thread in the app_server 🤔
<Calisto>
wait before then.. ill try to get a bit of the UI fixed as well
<Calisto>
and then go on to post the screenshot there
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<Begasus[m]>
handy to switch to the matrix to see those images trungnt2910 :)
<Calisto>
if it doesn't go as planned, I can always switch back to porting the current Find Panel into the Results window :)
<Nephele>
trungnt2910[m]: this is from a file called DelayedMessage.cpp
<trungnt2910[m]>
There's also this: Yeah baby, very shagadelic.
<Nephele>
I assume it stands for delayed message thread or something analogous
<Nephele>
Maybe you should check the thread names for vision then :P
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<Nephele>
Calisto: basically i think a 1:1 association makes sense only if they are directly tied to each other. Counterexamples are stuff like Me not wanting to filter based on a column, or me wanting to filter but there is no column yet. or none available
<Nephele>
for attributes the find panel should offer only ones that are somewhat common in the response set per default, not neccesarily an attribute that exists only once in the filesystem
<Nephele>
i might still want to filter based on it though
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<Calisto>
wait but doesn't the find panel only allow you to execute searches on the indexed attributes? and not on every attribute that could or could not be there?
<Calisto>
for example if you run the command lsindex on the terminal
<Calisto>
it gives out the indexed attributes
<Calisto>
and we can only execute queries using those attributes if im not wrong?
<Nephele>
hmm. not sure. but the list for me would be too big to offer in one go regardless
<Nephele>
60 for me
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<Calisto>
I mean the whole idea of this find panel was based on the fact that these columns would only be present above columns containing attributes that are indexed ... the remaining columns weren't going to have the column... currently i have not added that in since i was mostly working on the columns UI...
<Calisto>
basically the idea was that
<Calisto>
when you click alt + f
<Calisto>
you get an empty find panel, that only shows the columns
<Calisto>
of the attributes that you want to search by
<Calisto>
like you select them much like what you do in the current find panel
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<Calisto>
the ones that aren't indexed don't get shown by default and if you select them then they will be shown with a disabled placeholder above them that tells that you can't query by this attribute
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<Calisto>
nephele: wait can we continue this in a little while... have to go and have lunch xD
<Calisto>
before it gets cold :(
<Begasus>
enjoy Calisto :)
<phschafft>
hm.
<phschafft>
we made 47km yesterday.
<phschafft>
one of my goals is that we can get into the range where we can hop from here to the next friend and the next day then hop to the next friend, ....
<phschafft>
seems we need to get to around 60km for that. which, compared to 47km isn't that far away.
<Nephele>
riding a donkey is something, add a silly hat and people will assume you came to fight green energy (windmills)
<phschafft>
;)
<phschafft>
but it's also important to keep profile, time, breaks, water, and food in mind.
<Nephele>
i'm still looking into making a home fiber optic network. heh
<Nephele>
figuring as our router is going to be replaced because of fiber optics. I figure maybe i can make my own internal fiber network, and have an OpenBSD computer+firewall as router
<phschafft>
the total avg. speed of yesterday was a little more than 6km/h (that is how fast you walk).
<phschafft>
nephele: done that in the 10Mbit/s era. was fun. but ethernet over SCSI was just so much faster back then.
<Nephele>
well, now optics are faster again :)
<Nephele>
doesn't seem like there are any usb hubs with a fiber connection on the market
<Nephele>
Sometimes i keep wanting things that are "ridicilous and will never be on the market!" only for them to appear on the market 5 years later
<Nephele>
like laptops with OLED displays. Lotsof forums in the internet saying "you're stoohpid that will lead to burn in" but nowadays i can buy oled screen laptops :)
<Nephele>
phschafft: heh, nice
<phschafft>
let's face it, TFTs also burn out.
<phschafft>
have seen that way too many times.
<phschafft>
it takes a little time for every generation of tech to get to the point it works for all use cases. but most of them reach that point eventually.
<Nephele>
we already have the amazing technology of screensavers :)
<Nephele>
iirc the newer Ipad models have a kind of dual OLED screen, where it can just switch between them to avoid burn in even more. Assuming you aren't running at full brightness
<phschafft>
what I always found was fun when people told me TFTs wouldn't need warmup time like tubes. that's not really true. it's just most of the time much faster (it is the better tech after all).
<phschafft>
but I had TFTs that took a up to a few minutes when really cold.
<Nephele>
I dissasembled a lcd recently to re-use the plastic backlight block for a room light. It was illuminated with crt tubes
<Nephele>
on some laptops you can also clearly see darker or lighter areas on the top if they just use some led every X mm
<phschafft>
;)
<Nephele>
hmm, i wonder how the backlight of this macbook looks. it's very thin
<phschafft>
the diffusor blocks are fun to play with. plus the optical films can be used to simulate daylight as they provide *parallel* light.
<Nephele>
not gonna destroy this machine to satisfy my curiosity though
<Nephele>
yes indeed. I am going to recylce some more old monitors we have
<phschafft>
I have seen tubes, LED, but also ELwire stuff used.
<Nephele>
also working on a small design with a esp32 (the risc-v variant of those) with three mosfetts so i can control a rgb light strip
<phschafft>
the EL stuff was really thin early on.
<Nephele>
wrap it around the block and then make that into a ceeling light
<phschafft>
but the LED based ones also go real thin soon.
<phschafft>
on the other paw I have some that are only like 3.5mm and tube based.
<Nephele>
have one of those, but they will go away soon. I don't want that stuff in my homemade light
<phschafft>
nephele: I use some AVRs as DMX controllers over here.
<Nephele>
rather use LED there
<phschafft>
yes, for all modern designs use LED ;)
<phschafft>
just saying that EL was a third option for a while.
<Nephele>
I didn't know about EL wire, looks fun :)
<phschafft>
(thinking about it: it is kind of a tube, but without the space...)
<Nephele>
spaceless non-tube-formed tube
<phschafft>
need to get breakfast now. then see what I'll do till that next meeting.
<phschafft>
;)
<Nephele>
:)
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<akashkumar7902>
how to copy paste from host to haiku vm ?
<Nephele>
that depends on your vm software. In all cases you need to install some kind of guest support beforehand
<akashkumar7902>
i am using qemu/kvm
<akashkumar7902>
what "guest support" means ?
<Nephele>
There is no hardware that allows you to paste. So a virtualized OS needs to cooperate with the VM software to receive a paste
<Nephele>
it's not something that exists in real hardware, so needs specials software and the knowledge of the OS that it is beeing virtualized
<Nephele>
in that analogy whatever OS you use to run your VM software is the host, and the OS in the VM is the guest
<phschafft>
I often use a netcat between the relevant machines. it doesn't allow for c&p of complex objects, but it also keeps them isolated.
<phschafft>
just as another option that doesn't require extra software support.
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<Nephele>
phschafft: each new layer of virtualization eventually gets apis added to share stuff, and then you add a new layer of virtualization for secutiry ;)
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<phschafft>
;)
<phschafft>
for me it starts with the usual suspect: the user. if c&p is easy you will at some point c&p something you didn't want. so adding just a little bit of a hassle already helps a lot.
<Nephele>
in haiku i can select the chat and drag and drop it into a text editor
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<phschafft>
williams christ chcolate grape yoghurt.
<phschafft>
with a bit of agave
<phschafft>
nephele: I was wondering about a terminal for my bed. considered building something from a number of 7 segment displays.
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<akashkumar>
Guess I will move to haiku for development. Is there VScode support on haiku ?
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<CalistoMathias>
heyyy
<CalistoMathias>
so yup nephele: I was thinking that maybe I can do something like this... I'll go ahead with finishing a bit of the UI in the current implementation. Then when it becomes clear how exactly it was intended to be, I can put it up on the forum for reviews and stuff that I can change/add/discard... If in the case that it needs to be discarded totally that's also fine.
<CalistoMathias>
For now, I'll finish up the folder filtering, then add in a basic version of incremental search
<CalistoMathias>
once im done with those two things, I would be able to use all of the remaining time on the project solely to UI :)
<CalistoMathias>
how does that sound?
<CalistoMathias>
seems to be the best option as of now but I will also get in contact with Humdinger and ask his advice on how I should proceed
<CalistoMathias>
sorry it took a while
<CalistoMathias>
i'm a remarkably slow eater xD
* CalistoMathias
proceeds to eat one spoon of food / min
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<Begasus>
must have been a havy spoon :P
<CalistoMathias>
xD
<Nephele>
phschafft: transparent oled display :)
<Nephele>
akashkumar: not that I know off, but i hear the "Genio" ide is somewhat similar
<Nephele>
CalistoMathias: It's good to enjoy your food. If you eat too quickly you might miss the signals of your body that you have eaten enough :)
<CalistoMathias>
yep :)
<CalistoMathias>
but my mom also says that i take too long xD
<CalistoMathias>
usually her schedule is set off by it xD
<CalistoMathias>
nephele: so do you think I should go ahead with that approach?
<Nephele>
I'm a slow eater only because I consistenly eat twice the food of my family members :)
<CalistoMathias>
so that I can implement the core functionality of the incremental search first
<CalistoMathias>
and then focus on UI changes
<CalistoMathias>
since the main focus of this project is in the end the incremental + UI change
<Nephele>
Sure, if you have the basics down i think UI changes with the layout kit are not that terrible
<CalistoMathias>
yup :)
<CalistoMathias>
idk why i find it easier to think of it in a similar way to the box model of CSS
<CalistoMathias>
so its become pretty intuitive
<CalistoMathias>
it doesn't exactly follow the same thing but its made it a lot easier to think about he layout kit in general
<Nephele>
phschafft: now i'm considering "just" upgrading to ca 6a, probably much cheaper
<Nephele>
and not sure if any spinning rust disks we have would benefit from 40G fiber, probably not
<CalistoMathias>
btw nephele: if you don't mind me asking, how old are you (if it is not a secret)
<CalistoMathias>
im blown away by your knowledge :)
<CalistoMathias>
not even kidding xD
<Nephele>
my knowledge about what? :P
<CalistoMathias>
i wanted to know how long it took for you to get to where you are xD
<CalistoMathias>
idk in just general
<Nephele>
i'm about 25 now
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<CalistoMathias>
wow
<CalistoMathias>
alright then, so I'll get going with this, and make it fit the proposal, then put it for review.
<CalistoMathias>
I don't think it should take too long
<CalistoMathias>
since its mostly done... just have to change the logical relations related
<CalistoMathias>
then ill focus on the incremental search and wait for reviews on the UI / how I could make it better :)
<CalistoMathias>
or scrap it if necessary :)
* CalistoMathias
praying it doesn't come down to that xD
<CalistoMathias>
prays*
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<phschafft>
hm.
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<phschafft>
CalistoMathias: just keep going. it's the only way forward.
<Nephele>
that's bad advice to give someone driving towards a brick wall on a motor cycle
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<phschafft>
you're right. someone needs to clean the brick wall after that-
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<Nephele>
I open the vote; I vote phschafft; I close the vote
<Nephele>
phschafft: seems you were democratically elected to clean the wall
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<phschafft>
let's face it. most likely I have less of a problem with that than most of those in here.
<Nephele>
you have experience with cleaning then?
<Nephele>
In the sims 2 a broken sink is a great way to train the cleaning skill
<phschafft>
I have done many things in my life before. some dirty, some clean, and some changed between those two in the middle of the fun.
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<HaikuUser>
Hi, i'm using QtCreator, it says no suitable kits found, but it have DESKTOP, but doesn't allow me to check, any help?
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<HaikuUser>
i also have python available, but also doesn't allow me to check them...
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<OscarL>
HaikuUser: while I haven't used QtCreator, internet says this: "
<OscarL>
No valid Kits found The problem occurs because qt-creator don't know the versions of your qt, your compiler or your debugger."
<OscarL>
so... maybe you're missing the "_devel" packages for whatever Qt library versions you have installed?
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<Begasus>
Hi OscarL!
<OscarL>
hey Begasus!
<akashkumar>
How much disk space should I give to haiku for development purposes ? I am triple booting it.
<HaikuUser>
Thanks OscarL, doing some research :P
<Begasus>
HaikuUser, not using Qt-Creator that much, but do some checkout with it on new releases
<Begasus>
what is the issue with it?
<HaikuUser>
Begasus, trying to make a desktop app, but it says no suitable kits found...
<HaikuUser>
as OscarL said, could be a configuration
<HaikuUser>
or need to install devel packages
<Begasus>
ok, most checks I do there are with cmake projects
<Begasus>
that can be an issue too :)
<HaikuUser>
tahnks
<HaikuUser>
thanks for info
<Begasus>
np
<OscarL>
akashkumar: while I can't give you an exact number... for reference, for beta4, 64 bits, I have a 20 GB partition where I do both Haiku and HaikuPorts builds, still have plenty of space, but I don't use or build the buildtools.
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<OscarL>
akashkumar: on 32 bits, I make do with a 6 GB partition.
<OscarL>
heh.
<Begasus>
as mentioned, I don't use it that much, prefer kdevelop over it (for my needs) :)
<OscarL>
also, you're more than likely to have the _devel packages installed already.
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* Nephele
sends test email -> ios mail "but that user is invalid" "but the subject is empty!!"
<Nephele>
who sais you can't send an email to local user "test" with empty subject, my postfix certainly doesn't mind
<phschafft>
;)
<Begasus>
most be one of those 2K+ packages installed :D
<Nephele>
phschafft... hmm, "Business proposal from Ukraine..."
<Nephele>
sounds interesting
<phschafft>
eh...
<Nephele>
> <Attachment: untitled (Type: HTML file)>
<Nephele>
eh
<Begasus>
biab
<Nephele>
hmm, the message sais it is extremely confidential
<CalistoMathias>
phschafft: you're right :)
<CalistoMathias>
if something gets complicated i guess i can fix it as I go :(
<Nephele>
phschafft: I'm actually saving most spam emails to do a dramatic reading of them at some point
<Nephele>
Especially looking forward to the severall pages long email that tries to convince me that obama, personally, is the anti crist
<phschafft>
nephele: I always enjoy the ones that are clearly broken. e.g. template vars not expanded or something.
<Nephele>
phschafft: oh, i got some of those. the email adress was broken :D I got spam for user@ourdomain.tld right, but they tried to guess some other emails.... so they send me emails to "userstation.sony.com@ourdomain.tld"
<Nephele>
it was particularily entertaining since none of those were directed at me, but i am the fallback mail receiver xD
<phschafft>
;)
<phschafft>
I always wondered how that industry can work at that low quality.
<phschafft>
but yesterday I had a call with some user. and he insisted that my personal e-mail address would be notify-service@someservice.org
<phschafft>
because he always got personal e-mails from me from that address.
<Nephele>
i usually give out prefix-yourservice@mydomain.tld emails to people so i can just block the adress if it gets leaked for spam purposes
<phschafft>
I mean, just looking at that address would tell you that's a role address and most likely not accepting anything incoming. ;)
<Nephele>
also i will know instantly which business leaked my adress
<Nephele>
Hmm, haiku mail seems to crash when opening an email with no subject
<Nephele>
maybe iOS mail was right to warn me
<Nephele>
hmm... nevermind, it cant open any emails
<Nephele>
wth
<Nephele>
> Body could not be fetched: General system error
<Nephele>
??
<phschafft>
that sounds bad.
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<Nephele>
but it does mark the email as read .-.
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<Nephele>
Imap log claims it is fetching the body
<Nephele>
wierd. restarted mail_daemon and now it works
<phschafft>
bug.
<Nephele>
* BYE Logging out
<Nephele>
Unhandled S: BYE, Logging, out
<Nephele>
lol
<Nephele>
phschafft: my mail server supports Imap IDLE
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<Nephele>
but haikus mail daemon fetches mail only periodically
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<Nephele>
should fix this
<Nephele>
why is libreoffice so damn slow when inline images are embedded :(
<Nephele>
I sure hope leavengood's text editor will be nicer
<Nephele>
the calligra suit is already a good idea to "mix it up" a bit, with a more user friendly editor suite. but sadly it fails to displace libreoffice on kde too
* OscarL
starts to bake the saddest "cookies" in recent human history (flour, water, sugar, cinnamon powder, lemon zest)
<OscarL>
Kinda feel that I might have a better experience consuming the ingredients separately.
<OscarL>
Even hp .recipes look more appetizing :-)
<Nephele>
oh nice, calligra does not have such a horrible slowdown like libreoffice
<Nephele>
happy :D
<Nephele>
too bad the kde icons don't work nicely on the dark mode. Not sure how to change those
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<Nephele>
also it uses really terrible fonts for the menu, and i don't know why
<phschafft>
hm, yes.
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<Begasus>
re
* phschafft
waves to Begasus.
<Nephele>
hi Begasus
* Begasus
wavez at all the peeps here
<phschafft>
all good?
<Begasus>
yeah, just too warm :)
<gordonjcp>
really warm here, 22°C and humid
<Begasus>
but don't let OscarL hear that :)
<gordonjcp>
feels like it might be thundery later
<phschafft>
maybe coolcoder613 can provide some cold air?
* OscarL
sends Begasus some "sad cookies" in retaliation.
<Begasus>
expecting 30°C here today and tomorrow
<Begasus>
thanks OscarL :)
<Begasus>
thunder is predicted for tomorrow here gordonjcp
* Begasus
checks buildmasters ...
<Nephele>
I always expect 20°C
<Nephele>
perfect temperature
<Begasus>
nice :D
<phschafft>
just messured 32°C here. some warm front currently on it's way to us.
<Begasus>
yeah, second that nephele!
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<phschafft>
was told to prepare for at least 4K more.
<Begasus>
all good for tuxpaint :)
<Nephele>
it was always nice to perform analytical tasks at 20°C
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<Begasus>
need to supply links to upstream for the packages :)
<phschafft>
Begasus++
<phschafft>
always happy to have tuxpaint around (as told before)
<Nephele>
Begasus: any way to make the non-haiku-icon fallback kde icons use the dark mode variants?
<Begasus>
Bill doesn't see the download numbers there (most will install it on Haiku through the packagemanager)
<Begasus>
that's one for 3dEyes nephele, he made the haiku icon theme (and did a good job), but yeah missing some for the dark colorthemes
<Nephele>
the icons that are working are nice indeed. But calligra for example has many icons that fall back to kde variants, and those don't work in the dark mode at all
<Begasus>
there has been a storm not that long ago for the icons between KDE/Gnome :)
<Nephele>
what do you mean by that?
<Begasus>
Gnome not following the icon standards (naming convention or the likes)
<Begasus>
so some KDE apps looked wrong
<Begasus>
well, the icons
<Nephele>
*shrug* I'd just have icons be in private data for applications, then they can do their own junk
<Begasus>
we still got good review on that :)
<Nephele>
haiku now has an api for system icons
<Begasus>
it would be nice if applications could use the method used in kdenlive, you can choose between system(haiku) icons or the breeze ones
<Nephele>
you can already choose the icon set in qt configurator
<Nephele>
but its only haiku or adwaita for me
<Nephele>
hmm, using breeze dark helps but it's not perfect
<Nephele>
I'm only talking about icons, not colors. colors are already respected
<Begasus>
breeze package from "plasma" contains the ones for breeze light/dark
<Begasus>
yeah, just saying :)
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<dalme_>
I'm having trouble compiling qemu 8.2.2 using haikuporter (command ./haikuporter qemu --all-dependencies). It's my first time using haikuporter. It says "Build-prerequisites "cmd:python" of package "samba-3.6.25" could not be resolved". I assume the problem is that there is no python executable (is called python3) but I can't do a symlink since the FS is read-only. Any ideas?
<Begasus>
why --all-dependencies?
<Nephele>
phschafft: i got bitten just now by calligra not supporting watching files, and i just expected it to follow that i moved the file somewhere else
<Begasus>
got this in my "profile" alias hp="haikuporter -j16 --get-dependencies" dalme_
<phschafft>
nephele: hm?
<dalme_>
Thanks, I'll try it
<Nephele>
dalme_: what do you mean the FS is read only? where are you compiling?
<dalme_>
/bin/ is read-only
<dalme_>
That says the ln command
<Nephele>
/bin also doesn't exist
<Begasus>
symlinks to /system/bin
<Nephele>
if you want to symlink commands for your use put them in $HOME/config/non-packaged/bin
<Nephele>
phschafft: opened file, editied it, moved it somewhere else, saved it in calligra
<Begasus>
not sure if old samba still builds
<Nephele>
it just saved a new copy in the original location
<phschafft>
most software would do I guess.
<Nephele>
haiku software doesn't do this
<Nephele>
so i got bitten by my expectation
<phschafft>
I mean in general. I don't say it's the right thing.
<Nephele>
sure, yes. But for me specifically most software I use supports this fine, so I don't think about it
* phschafft
nods.
<Nephele>
seems obvious to me that, of course, if i edit a file, and move the file, the edit is still on the same moved file
<Nephele>
Talking from a pure UI perspective here :)
<phschafft>
to me it depends on what you edit. that inode or a file by that name.
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<phschafft>
I discovered that people have many different definition of 'file'.
<Begasus>
dalme_, why do you need samba for qemu?
<Nephele>
from a ui perspective it's always the name
<dalme_>
I don't know. The haikuporter just said that
<phschafft>
and depending on which one you follow you end up with slightly different behaviour even for most basic tasks.
<Begasus>
ah, has "cmd:smbd$secondaryArchSuffix" in REQUIRES
<Nephele>
yes
<phschafft>
(and sometimes very different behaviours for more interesting tasks)
<Begasus>
dalme_, change "--all-dependencies" to "--get-dependencies" and try again?
<dalme_>
Yes, I've done that
<Begasus>
+1
<dalme_>
It's working I think
<dalme_>
But my harddisk is too slow
<dalme_>
So it's going to take a while
<Begasus>
got a package for latest version around if you need to test drive something there :)
<Begasus>
still not sure how to properly test drive it myself :D
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<dalme_>
The thing is I need to compile qemu with nvmm support enabled
<phschafft>
nephele: what I basically want to say is that we should shift away from 'file' to more specific and well defined terms. to avoid something like that happening.
<dalme_>
Which current packages don't have Begasus
<phschafft>
plus real world software can always be improved. ;)
<Nephele>
phschafft: for a ui perspective i think that fight is lost
<Nephele>
unless you really do use a db aproach
<akashkumar7902>
what should be an optimal RAM memory size + CPU's for haiku installation for dev ?
<Nephele>
optimal? it depends what you want to do
<Nephele>
my main dev machine has like 4GB of ram, but would work too with 3GB or maybe even 2GB
<phschafft>
nephele: I think it depends a bit. if you redesign things on an UI level, no. if you go with 'we need it to look like explorer on windows 95', then yes.
<Nephele>
I only boot up my bigger machine when dealing with haikuwebkit
<Begasus>
dalme_, current one in the depot, latest one here samba4-4.20.2
<Begasus>
current one in the depot samba-3.6.25 * :)
<dalme_>
Ah, I see
<dalme_>
I think this will work
<dalme_>
(Hopefully)
<Begasus>
recipe is at haikuports in a wip PR
<Begasus>
ok :)
<OscarL>
akashkumar7902: 2 GB of RAM for building haiku.hpkg worked for me last time I've tried (earlier this year)
<dalme_>
Then I'll have to see how to change the recipe to tell it to try to find NVMM
<Nephele>
OscarL: the Wii U has 2GB of RAM
<phschafft>
for example if the OS would allow an editor to request a lease via some standard interface other software could know about that. then when you move a file the editor can get a notification and the moving software can provide a warning/confirmation. plus that would allow stuff like moving cross device, and keeping tempfiles, locks, transaction support and all that in place.
<OscarL>
darn scipy on the other hand... might choke even with 4 GB :-(
<Begasus>
just kick it out the door OscarL :)
<Nephele>
phschafft: we already notify the editor that the file is beeing moved
<Nephele>
what purpose would the warning serve?
<OscarL>
nephele: I wouldn't be surprised if the wii is faster than my machines :-)
<akashkumar7902>
booted it with 4gb ram, 4 core and 30 gb storage
<Nephele>
OscarL: well, the WII U has thrice the power of the Wii! in the sense that they just used the Wii cpu design and made it into a triple core
<phschafft>
nephele: some users might want one. some don't. I for example would like a warning if I move files currently open in an edit session (AKA lease, which is diffrent from an open file handle with write mode).
<phschafft>
if you don't want that, just tick the 'don\'t show again' such a warning would have. ;)
<OscarL>
akashkumar7902: should be pretty good.
<Nephele>
why? the OS should only warn about things that are destructive, or have any significant impact
<Nephele>
in this case it seems to be neither
<akashkumar7902>
also can i swap key combination that starts with alt to ctrl
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<Nephele>
adding annoying warnings basically just trains users to ignore them
<phschafft>
nephele: I would not move a file currently been edited (again in contrast to being written to on a low level). if that would happen for me as a user it would most likely be some error and I would be happy to warn the system about user error.
<Nephele>
akashkumar7902: you can enable "win/lin" mode in keyboard settings. It will switch alt and control keys for you
<phschafft>
different users, different patterns.
<Nephele>
but this will also mean you then have to use alt-c in the terminal instead of ctrl-c :)
<Begasus>
alt-d for python then :)
<Nephele>
phschafft: i don't see how this is an error. It was a deliberate action by the user, and is non-destructive in respect to the editing session
<phschafft>
nephele: it can be if you move only the file but not the rest of the session (e.g. locks, swaps, ...). and again. I would not do that. so it is NOT an deliberate action in my case.
<phschafft>
if you go by 'deliberate action' there is no need to confirm anything at all.
<Nephele>
You should not put locks or swaps on the filesystem in any case
<Nephele>
it is racy and won't work
<phschafft>
because every destructive operation started with an 'deliberate action'.
<Nephele>
well, i don't see that as an argument for a warning. That would be like warning for a copy because some people don't copy files
<phschafft>
nephele: just that POSIX defines how you should do it and guarantees that it will work if done correctly.
<Nephele>
I don't see how you can do this correctly if you use more than one file and the process can die at some point
<phschafft>
nephele: I just don't get what the problem is here. *I* would like to have an confirmation/warning. why can't we have it and a setting to turn it on and off? what is the problem with two different user patterns?
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<OscarL>
speaking of Ctrl+letter, why oh why text input controls (say, StyledEdit, most TextViews) on Haiku don't filter out Ctrl+letter? Pe at least doesn't tries to insert a usless "empty char", but StyledEdit does, setting the file as edited/dirty :-(
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<Nephele>
There is no reason for the warning in the first place, and no api to find out the difference between "this app is watching this file to figure out if it is moved, because it wants to act on it" and "this app is watching this file and the user doesn't think it should be moved"
<phschafft>
nephele: yes. and I complain that there is no such API.
<Nephele>
There is no way to sniff your intent
<Nephele>
you can't put this in an api
<phschafft>
so basically you say that all confirmations/warnings should be removed from any system because a system cannot tell if a user really wanted to burn down his house or not. good fine. whatever.
<Nephele>
OscarL: the problem is then moreso that StyledEdit can't display the character you just posted, which is an ascii control character
<Nephele>
phschafft: again, the action is not destructive in the first place
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<Nephele>
why warn for something solely because some users might not usually do this?
<OscarL>
what's the use of control characters on a simple text editor or, other simple text input fields?
<phschafft>
because in my usecases in exactly 100% of the cases it is an error. I like systems that spot user errors.
<Nephele>
Nowadays? probably not much.
<OscarL>
some special case apps might need them, but not by default.
<Nephele>
It's not an error solely because you usually don't do something :)
<Begasus>
eeps, my Haiku source tree is about 15GiB :P
<Calisto-Mathias>
Heyyy.. guys just wanted to ask what's the best irc client for Android
<OscarL>
nephele: usability matters.
<Calisto-Mathias>
There don't seem to be a lot
<akashkumar7902>
irccloud
<Calisto-Mathias>
Im trying out irccloud for now :)
<phschafft>
by that definition nothing that can be done with a computer is an error. nor is driving into the brick wall an error.
* phschafft
gives up.
<Nephele>
Again, warning for destructive actions is fine
<Nephele>
warning for something because some user groupd doesn't do this action doesn't help
<Nephele>
in this case beeing able to move files is a feature, so i don't see why you should warn about that.
* Nephele
is afk for a while
<OscarL>
(you hit a key-combo that should be filtered out... now you can't quickly close StyledEdit without it asking you to save the damn file you did not intended to modify)
<Begasus>
ah 2 3GiB anyboot images still in there :)
<Begasus>
down to 7GiB
* OscarL
reads about crowdstike-related global Windows meltdowns. Too bad he's out of popcorn.
<dalme_>
I get "ninja: subcommand failed" and the compilation aborts. Generating ui/input-keymap-...-d
<Begasus>
lol OscarL
<Begasus>
on qemu dalme_?
<dalme_>
Yup
<dalme_>
/bin/as: Unrecognized option --gdwarf-5
<OscarL>
Begasus: bad thing I'm out of cash to buy more... and with banks being affected... debit card might be of no help :-P
<dalme_>
I'll update binutils and see if it works..
<Begasus>
Signature in rsrc doesn't match constructor arg. (application/x-vnd.mmlr.QEMU, application/x-vnd.qemu-system-x86_64)
<Begasus>
is that known? :P
<OscarL>
Begasus: as qemu has binaries for different systems, app-sigs makes sense, no? Maybe it was only one binary on older versions and thus the mmlr.QEMU one?
<Begasus>
no idea OscarL
<OscarL>
s/app-sigs/seeing different app-sigs/
<Begasus>
tried booting neon and manjaro with it when I saw it
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<Begasus>
hi jmairboeck
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<jmairboeck>
hi Begasus
<Begasus>
cleaning up, it's quit at haikuports :)
<akashkumar7902>
where can i see every 3rd party application for haiku: like clipdinger, genio etc
* OscarL
from a Windows machine running Haiku on VBox... Mmm.
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<akash__>
is it possible to mount the haiku source code repo from linux mint to haiku vm, by which I can edit, and build the code from mint (vscode) and run the application in haiku ?
* Begasus
should cleanup some of this akonadi stuff ...
<Begasus>
no idea there akash__
<OscarL>
maybe with sshfs?
<OscarL>
you'll need to first configure sshd on Haiku's side (enabling root login)
<OscarL>
haven't tried it myself, and... mmm, not seeing "ssshfs" on my Haiku install :-/
<akash__>
how to configure sshd @OscarL
<phschafft>
OscarL: you got one s too much.
<OscarL>
mine is sssspecial, phschafft :-P
<OscarL>
(my typing, I mean :-D)
<phschafft>
;)
<phschafft>
but I mean you can always go for sssnake when connecting stuff.
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<OscarL>
akash__: /boot/system/settings/ssh/sshd_config <<< on that file... add "PermitRootLogin yes"
<phschafft>
having a meeting now. maybe after that playing around a bit more with Haiku. maybe someone is around for more filesystem questions and discussions.
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<Begasus>
biab
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<Begasus>
k, another few G's cleared :)
<akash__>
OscarL: do i need to install sshfs in haiku ?
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<OscarL>
akash__: doesn't seems to be available on Haiku, sadly (thus why I mentioned that I haven't personnally tried it).
<OscarL>
I *did* used whatever Midnight Commander does over ssh to access remotes file systems (from Haiku to Linux at least).
<OscarL>
IIRC, nfs/nfs4 should allow to mount remote filesystems, but haven tried those either, and I rmember some mentions of not being too stable.
<OscarL>
not ideal, but in the worst case scenario, you could edit files in a USB pendrive, and let your Haiku VM access that when you're done editting. Maybe you can do the same with just a filesystem image?
<OscarL>
I just do things from inside Haiku.
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<akashkumar>
"filesystem image" what's that?
<OscarL>
the "Genio" IDE (with it's clangd LSP plugin) should be a relatively good alternative to VSCode, I guess (I mosly use lightweigth editors).
<OscarL>
think of an HDD image (.vmkd, .vdi, .qcow2, etc)
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<OscarL>
as long as you format it with a filesystem that both Linux and Haiku can read/write, you could share data that way.
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<dalme_>
Begasus: right now nvmm can be loaded on a Haiku system by copying the binary into /non-packaged/add-ons/kernel/drivers/bin. However, it'll give problems since it requires a few kernel changes to work. Anyway, when it gets to a somewhat usable state I'll put instructions on the forum for anyone that wants to try it out
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<Begasus>
still alive :D
<Habbie>
nvmm? that's like kvm? i didn't read everything, but does nvmm run on haiku now?
<Begasus>
can't code, but I do know my way around packages a bit :)
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* Nephele
is back
<Begasus[m]>
wb
<Nephele>
hello M begasus
<Begasus>
weird key-combo in neochat :P
<Nephele>
I'm beggining to think the matrix bridge is as bad as it is on purpose to encourage people to migrate to matrix so they don't have to suffer from the bridge on the irc side anymore
<Begasus>
one advantage, I don't have to check whitequark anymore ;)
<Habbie>
nephele, hmm, i've found matrix (well, element[s]) so bad that i try to avoid suffering from the bridge on the matrix side ;)
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<akash__>
how to access pen drive content from haiku vm ?
<Nephele>
figure out how your vm software exposes the usb device to the guest, then make it do that
<Nephele>
if it's correctly exposed haiku will just automount it like normal
<akash__>
thanks got it
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<akash__>
also, now i am unable to see the usb on my host
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<Nephele>
that is expected
<Nephele>
if the guest uses it exclucsively you don't want the host to access it at the same time
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<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 87d1e18fc0db - libroot_stubs: missing stubs for getentropy()
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<phschafft>
what are those stubs used for?
<Nephele>
phschafft: this is in related to the cross build for porting to a new architecture
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<Nephele>
there was a forum topic about someone trying this for powerpc, and this is one error pulkomandy encountered when trying it, hence this fix, i assume :)
<phschafft>
on the filesystem I see some META:ATTR_INFO
<phschafft>
but listattr doesn't decode it nor does it look like I would expect it (which doesn't mean anything, I was just guessing that even in the binary form you can see the keys and values)
<phschafft>
that is one of the files I came across.
<phschafft>
I have /boot/home/config/settings/mime_db/application/x-person and /boot/system/data/mime_db/application/x-person both not containing the actual info I see in FileTypes.
<OscarL>
attributes have been always pretty free-form, AFAIK (each app/user being free to add new ones). Besides "system" attributes following some conventions ("BEOS:" namespace, for example), and that mime_db... not sure you'll avoid looking at each app individually.
<OscarL>
dalme_: if you're using haikuporter to build the qemu recipe... it should create a git repo for you, unless you ask it NOT (haikuporter -G <package name>).
<OscarL>
there should be a "work-[some version number here]" dir on the same dir as the qemu .recipe.
<OscarL>
under it, you should see sources/qemu-<something>/ (unpacked qemu source files).
<OscarL>
there's the dir with the git repo for that (and were current .patchset gets applied.
<dalme_>
I see. Thanks a lot OscarL !
<OscarL>
haikuports unpacks sources, initializes that git repo, adds all files, tags it as ORIGIN, and then does "git am <patchset defined in the .recipe>"
<OscarL>
you can just work on that git repo, as normal git. just don't forget to use: "haikuporter -e qemu" to extract your changes when you're done.
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<OscarL>
dalme_: word of advice... beware of running "hp -c qemu" without commiting and extracting your changes. "hp -c" will wipe the work-dir without further questions.
<OscarL>
(don't ask me how I learned that, more than once :-P)
<kallisti5[m]>
gordonjcp: I get this feel lol.. my Daughter is, and my current partner
<phschafft>
we also do make all fresh.
<gordonjcp>
yup
<gordonjcp>
I don't like any pre-prepared things, we never had that when I was growing up
<phschafft>
to me it feels like it's missing something. plus all the fun of cooking it is lost and it just cannot be perfect for your taste.
<phschafft>
give me a second. need to talk to my flatmate.
<gordonjcp>
I just like cooking
<gordonjcp>
my son likes cooking too, but he's 3 so he doesn't really get much of an opportunity to do so
<gordonjcp>
these days he only needs me to pour hot water on his porridge oats because he's not allowed to use the kettle
<gordonjcp>
one day he'll figure out he can just use cold water and ding it in the microwave longer, and it'll be one more thing he doesn't need his dad to do
<erysdren>
brb
<phschafft>
today is soup (as always on friday). it's potato soup as we're on a potato gratin week. but it's a matter of what the second component is.
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<phschafft>
gordonjcp: hm, yes.
<phschafft>
I think it's important with children that there are clear rules on what they are allowed to do e.g. in the kitchen BUT also that it is clear why, and that they have the freedom to develop, testing things and stuff and the rules being re-evaluated.
<phschafft>
I mean with 3 clearly cooking is still a bit of a mixed topic. but it's good for them to 'get their hands dirty' and try it out as best as they can.
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<erysdren>
bakc
<erysdren>
howdy phshafft
<erysdren>
what's up
<Begasus>
closing down here
<Begasus>
cu peeps!
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<phschafft>
so, soup should be ready in 20 minutes.
<erysdren>
alright
<erysdren>
oh hey, i got a random non-haiku question for hardware peeps here
<erysdren>
how might i physically disable the beeper/pc speaker in a Dell Inspiron laptop from 2016?
<erysdren>
i'm trying to diagnose issues with it, and the BIOS beeps are driving me nuts
<erysdren>
they're incredibly loud
<OscarL>
submerge on bucket of water. that should take care of it. /me bolts.
<OscarL>
later folks!
<erysdren>
:P
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<phschafft>
erysdren: if you're on linux open alsamixer. if you're lucky you have a volume control for it.
<erysdren>
well, i can't even boot the thing...
<erysdren>
was hoping to have a hardware or BIOS option solution. haven't found anything yet.
<phschafft>
I mean you can open it and unplug it.
<erysdren>
yeah, i'll probably do that. if i can identify it
<erysdren>
i guess it'll be a black and red wire.
<phschafft>
it depends and I don't know Dell laptops at all.
<FreeFull>
Since it's a laptop, it's probably implemented by the sound chip and uses the regular laptop speakers
<erysdren>
that's my thought yeah
<erysdren>
and google is useless for this, it assumes i'm trying to turn it off from inside Windows
<erysdren>
not only am i not doing that, i will not even install Windows on it if i fix it
<phschafft>
FreeFull: I have often seen it implemented in the classic way but as with later desktop soundcards being routed analog thru the sound chip (just like the CD channel).
<phschafft>
DEC special graphics works in Terminal.
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<Boosted>
hello
<Boosted>
any dev is online right now? is to ask the same thing I tried to ask some days ago, about input filters