<nephele>
replaced a switch in my mouse, soldered in a new one, then tried my right click on tracker... and managed to crash it :D
<nephele>
also found a bug with menus, if you are too fast with right clicking to open them tracker will keep severall around for you dismiss (if you dismiss one then the next one will appear)
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<BrunoSpr>
Good morning
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<Begasus>
killed kdevelop :/
<nephele>
bah, newer logitech mouse, same problem, same fix. but this time they used metal that can't be soldered by hand
<nephele>
so now that mouse is e-waste
<nephele>
>:(
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* OscarL
is still using a PS/2 mouse from the early 2000s... a classic "ball" one. On its 3rd microswitch replacement.
<Begasus>
cc1plus: some warnings being treated as errors
* Begasus
bumps head ...
<OscarL>
morning Begasus :-)
<Begasus>
Hi OscarL :)
<phschafft>
I have a serial one that I sometimes use with a ball specifically made to work on carpet.
<OscarL>
Begasus: I'm trying to finish a patch for the Python 3.10 recipe, so it can be build agains newer libedit. Expect a PR soon for that.
<phschafft>
it's not only that it's not sliding/skipping, it's also not picking up dirt on carpet.
<phschafft>
but better not try to use it on hard surface, then it's dirty in no time and doesn't reall work smoothly.
<OscarL>
phschafft: noice.
<OscarL>
lol
<phschafft>
I have no idea why that one was made, why someone thought you need something like that.
<phschafft>
but hey, it's very useful when you're having some party in the living room and everyone sits on the floor with a monitor in front.
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<OscarL>
All my mice are ball-based ones, actually. Have two with *TWO* scroll wheels, sadly, they do not work reliably anymore (seems to have developed Parkinson, for all the shaking they generate).
<phschafft>
hm, two scroll wheels. I think I also got at least one with that feature.
<OscarL>
"A4Tech" was the brand that I've seen with the most models with dual-scroll wheels.
* phschafft
nods.
<phschafft>
that was what I was thinking.
<phschafft>
I have the winged mouse from them.
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<phschafft>
or whatever you want to call that.
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<Begasus>
why can't they add an option to disable werror :/
<phschafft>
hm?
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<Begasus>
[-Werror=undef] (this was #undef in previous version but bails out with an error now)
<phschafft>
hm.
<Begasus>
:)
<OscarL>
"grabbing python3.10-3.10.13-2-x86_64.hpkg" <<< Good. But also, in the build log: "Can't locate Tcl/Tk libs and/or headers" :-/
<OscarL>
"The necessary bits to build these optional modules were not found:" [some expected ones here and then...] "_tkinter"
<Begasus>
bugger .. kdevelop still doesn't like my attempt for kio 5.114.0 :/
<OscarL>
really extrange, because it seems to build it fine the first time (dunno why it compiles some extensions two times, thou)
<Begasus>
autogen.sh?
<Begasus>
ah, no
<OscarL>
seems to be running a "build_ext" step two times. One in "make", and one in "make install" :-/
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* OscarL
thinks he needs to patch "setup.py"
* OscarL
will need at least two strong cups of coffee first.
<Begasus>
time for the grandchildren, time of from kio :P
<Begasus>
cu later!
<OscarL>
Be well Begasus!
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<nephele>
OscarL: very good, this one is "just" a usb one :D
<nephele>
I still use a ps/2 keyboard
<OscarL>
My current mouse ("Genius NetScroll") is PS/2, but can do RS-232 with a pasive adapter. KB is PS/2 too.
<OscarL>
got me and old "PS/2 to USB" KB & Mouse adapter too, so I guess I'm good for another decade at least :-D
<nephele>
my last computer still has a seperate ps/2 for kb and mouse
<OscarL>
my current PC still has those :-P (I only use that USB thing when working with laptops with broken or crappy keyboards)
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<PetePete>
Good morning developers and... 'others...' I guess
<PetePete>
:D
<OscarL>
o/
<PetePete>
\o
<PetePete>
Coffee is not strong enough
<PetePete>
might switch to jet fuel
<OscarL>
intravenously.
<PetePete>
I already added mentholated snuf to my morning routine
<PetePete>
snuff*
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<OscarL>
Mmm, Phenom getting toasty: 56°C (shuts down at 65). Can't wait to get my "new" netbook (should have similar single-core performance, but FAR more efficiently)
<nephele>
Have the patch for haikuwebkit control rendering about halfway done :)
<nephele>
too bad i can't test it right now
<OscarL>
I don't envy having to compile that beast :-D
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<nephele>
OscarL: well, the difficulty already is in cloning it in the first place :(
<nephele>
I have a machine that is ment to build haikuwebkit (that was one of the primary considerations for buying it like I did)
<nephele>
but... I can't boot haiku, and I'm not sure why :(
<OscarL>
:-(
<nephele>
(That is, it worked in the past but now no longer does and i'm baffled, not even older revisions boot... maybe it's the gpu?)
<nephele>
I'm now developing the patch on macOS instead and I'll make a PR and hope pulkomandy can test it unless I can fix the machine
<nephele>
my "main" haiku machine is a nice little dell optiplex i3 i got for free :D
<OscarL>
free hardware is always nice... an i3... NOICE! :-D
* OscarL
still fights with Atom and Celeron class hardware :-D (besides this Phenom oven next to me, of course)
<nephele>
this one I got because it was running windows 10, and my former school decided to replace the entire pc room because "computers slow" (I did check, they were slow because "adobe flash updater service" was pegging the disk 100%)
<nephele>
I have a pentium M laptop I enjoy using haiku on too
<nephele>
I replaced the power socket with usb-c :)
<OscarL>
I have yet to own a device with USB-C (life in Argentina...)
<nephele>
well, in this case it was a 60ish €cent board from china that implements usb power delivery to request 20V and justs passes that along
<OscarL>
also... lol @ that Flash related slow hardware :-D
<_Dario_>
:-) My only USB-C device here is my phone (living in Argentina too)
<nephele>
Well, it really is too bad. The german education system is a bit devided, the school is owned by the individual cities and such, and they employ stuff like secretaries, but teachers are employed by each state
<nephele>
so... they have *two* IT systems in the school since they for some godawfull reason not allowed to be directly connected
<nephele>
but it gets worse, in the sense that the federal country, germany itself, provides funds for "IT"... but that is only used for hardware! they don't employ *anyone* that maintains these machines
<OscarL>
smoke test for Python 3.10.13 with newer libedit: success. I'll let the Phenom cool down now :-D /sets PowerSave mode on.
<nephele>
so the only ones that can are teachers (who don't have enough time anyway) or sometimes students
<nephele>
... so hardware just gets replaced every couple of years because "it's slow" or "it's broken"... need new computers, since nobody is there who could have fixed this issue in like the two hours it would have taken to debug this :(
<OscarL>
:-(
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<nephele>
but i did get this PC because my former teacher wanted to prevent them from going to e-waste (and he knew they were still good). Kind of nice that the state is allowed to give away older hw like that :)
<_Dario_>
In the company where I work, they used to sell the laptops that were going to be retired, to the employees. For a very, very good price (kind of simbolic price).
<OscarL>
meanwhile down here the govenrment used to issue extremely underpowered netbooks to schools (both to teachers and students)... even to schools without internet. Most ended up in the second-hand market :-/
<nephele>
If the software is good you can use lower powered hardware
<_Dario_>
But after some morons who bought the laptops started to complain about: "it did not come with Windows!" or because they broke somewhere after a year, the company stopped doing that :-(
<nephele>
usually the software just isn't though :(
<nephele>
_Dario_: oof :(
<OscarL>
I still use my Atom N450 (WinXP/Linux/Haiku), but for most folks, if you can't even use it for Youtube... they just trade it for a smartphone.
<_Dario_>
yeah... now they probably sell everything to those companies that bought used equipment from big companies, or ends in a land fill :-/
<nephele>
Qmplay2 lets me play youtube videos on most machines i can run haiku on
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<nephele>
(also has better performance than MediaPlayer, which lets me to believe that we can do better with the media kit)
<OscarL>
Atom N450 can't do that on Haiku, sadly. Only good for WinXP where the graphics drivers allows you to use video overlay. There you can even play 720p h264 files, as long as they are local :-D
* OscarL
wonders if MediaPlayer could use DirectWindow instead of DrawBitmap (at least on full screen) for better performance.
<OscarL>
"Chart" shows MASSIVE speed difference between those modes.
<_Dario_>
I remember on BeOS time, the option to enable the 'hardware overlay' caused a big jump in performance for video
<_Dario_>
there was an option in BeOS Media Player, IIRC
<OscarL>
_Dario_: yup. Too bad my SiS730 drivers back then (the ones from Dan0) didn't supported that feature :-D
<_Dario_>
at that time, I had a Voodoo 3. By that time there was some experimental driver supporting that card.
<_Dario_>
I remember some nice guy in IRC compiled it and sent the binary to me :-)
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<OscarL>
today all video playback accel functions seems to depend on 3D hardware (videos processed as textures and such), so tough luck getting video playback accel on Haiku :-(
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<nephele>
the nice thing about this i3 is also that it has *two* displayport slots
<nephele>
so... as soon as haiku has mutli monitor support
<nephele>
:D
<OscarL>
DisplayPort reminds me of SCART, as in... never saw either them in person :-D
<OscarL>
*either of them
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<_Dario_>
:-)
<_Dario_>
DisplayPort was more frecuent on Apple devices, I guess
<nephele>
dunno? It's very frequent nowadays on usb-c devices (via alternate mode)
<nephele>
also many newer gpus have severall of them
<moparisthebest>
Apple devices don't have ports
<nephele>
sure they do?
<moparisthebest>
Most GPUs seem to have more DP than HDMI, and usually Lenovo laptops too
<OscarL>
DP being royalty-free, unlike HDMI, makes me wonder why I don't see it more frecuently down here (almost all is HDMI nowadays)
<moparisthebest>
Apple devices are so notorious for not having ports the "apple dongle" has become a meme
<nephele>
lock-in I suppose? why would a user buy a device that supports only DP if their TV does HDMI :)
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<nephele>
moparisthebest: Sure it's a "meme". But it's not really true. Some devices have less ports than others, but then so those of other vendors
<nephele>
Even newer ones still have severall (different) ports to use
<nephele>
ironically the age of "only a couple of usb-c ports" is already over, where it was supposed to be the future ;)
* OscarL
was bummed out when he found out that his next netbook doesn't even has an ethernet port :-(
<moparisthebest>
What different ports do they have? It's only only USBC/thunderbolt?
<moparisthebest>
It's not only*
<nephele>
atleast the "higher end" devices have HDMI, headphone jack, sd card and such aswell
<nephele>
and the magsafe charger in addition to charging over usb-c
<moparisthebest>
Headphone jack? Wow I thought apple declared those obsolete a decade ago
<nephele>
*shrug* I guess if you pay enough money you can get anything you want ;)
<moparisthebest>
Not too long ago you couldn't even pay for F keys
<nephele>
I payed to not get F keys :P
<nephele>
i forgot how to make prs on github, ugh
<puck_>
nephele: note that most physical displayport ports can run HDMI passively, if the GPU supports it
<nephele>
puck_: interesting
<nephele>
damn, why does github make it so hard to upload a simple patch... need to login in a webrowser make a new app-specific password, need to check my email to actually log in, need to add a new git remote push it to that, then open the webrowser again and make a "pr"
<nephele>
jeez who thought this was a good idea
<OscarL>
??? I just push to my fork, and then open a PR on the upstream repo.
<OscarL>
for mac and linux they even have command-line tools you can use instead.
<nephele>
yes, but i have to configure it to use the "fork" in the first place, have to have credentials to push there (because apparently using a password for an account I use ONLY got git, is not secure enough. Instead i need to use a second password)
<nephele>
setting that up is a huge hasstle
<OscarL>
uploading ssh keys (same as in gerrit) doesn't sounds so terrible to me,
<OscarL>
it is a one time thing after all.
<nephele>
i don't need to upload ssh keys, i need to create a new password on github i can use to push
<nephele>
... but to get there i first need to login which i cant because they send me emails with tokens first
<nephele>
it's like 20 steps where it's about 2 on gerrit
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<OscarL>
I never have such problems with either of them. for me, it was basically the same process on both.
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<OscarL>
I use TOTP for 2FA via FreeOTP (on both github and gerrit/Haiku, and some how I need to login to gerrit every-single time, while github hasn't asked me to re-login in ages)
<nephele>
I used to use that OTP app from redhat, but that now already cost my acces to my bitbucket account if i dont have a recovery key somewhere
<nephele>
somehow, i'm not amused
<nephele>
github now forces me to make a token... which is so complicated I have no choice but to write it down somewhere, so now... instead of the password/token beeing in my head it's on my harddrive to steal. Great.
<nephele>
I can feel the security flowing through me
<OscarL>
send patch to Adrien by mail? :-P
<nephele>
Well, i don't have mail on my mac configured so...
<nephele>
I did that sometimes too though
<nephele>
works aswell, but i'd rather try the "normal" approach, since madmax sometimes also reviews patches on webkit
<nephele>
but i'd be happy to just have gerrit, really :D
<nephele>
it's not perfect but certainly better
<OscarL>
I find gerrit UI for review extremely bad. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
<nephele>
what about the UI?
<nephele>
I'm really happy to have stuff like patchsets and such, instead of having a stream of 50 "fixed typo" commits
<OscarL>
following comments and replies drives me nuts.
<nephele>
ah, yes i can understand that
<OscarL>
you can't edit comments. that's also an extremely bad decision in my mind.
<nephele>
oh ffs, i don't know how to open that damn PR
<nephele>
i have priviliges on haiku/haikuwebkit, so if i try to open a PR it wants to do it against webkit/webkit and not my "fork" to haiku/haikuwebkit
<nephele>
why is this so complicated :'(
<zdykstra>
It's not, at all
<OscarL>
if you cloned haiku/haikuwebkit, and pushed to your repo, it should show (on haiku/haikuwebkit) a button at the top of the page letting you open a PR for your latest pushes (assuming you're logged in).
<OscarL>
can't be easier.
<nephele>
it doesn't OscarL
<nephele>
Because I have admin privliges on haiku/haikuwebkit too
<zdykstra>
Fork, change, push to your fork, click the open pr link on the master repo
<nephele>
Again, There is no link
<nephele>
i need to do that manually, and it keeps changing the repos up
<zdykstra>
Sounds like a browser problem
<OscarL>
ask Begasus or augiedoggie then... both have write access to HaikuPorts, and open PRs for every single change they make.
<nephele>
zdykstra: how is it a browser problem?
<zdykstra>
Because it obviously works for 99.9% of people with out the drama you're making
<nephele>
It clearly doesn't show up, the ui is confusing and backwards. But your imagined 99.99% of people are correct. sure
<OscarL>
you can open new PRs from a repos' "Branches" pages too.
<nephele>
Maybe I should mail this laptop back to apple and ask them to install google chrome since it's "a browser problem"
<nephele>
OscarL: yes, did that now
<nephele>
it kept changing the *other* repo though, changed left to haiku, then the right to my own, and it had already changed the left side back to Webkit
<nephele>
and then it selected the wrong branch instead of the default one *shrug*
<OscarL>
I don't know what to tell you. Works just fine for most of us.
<nephele>
tried it a second time, now if i select haiku on the left side it reloads and removes the option to select repositories alltogether, lol
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<nephele>
OscarL: I guess I'm just not used to having to deal with many different branches and remotes where it's just "upload this change" on gerrit
<jmairboeck>
you have to click on the "compare across forks" link then
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<nephele>
the "fork" of haikuwebkit i have on github is 100% identical to haikuwebkit itself, barring one commit. it's not really a fork but it has all the stuff around it trying to make it look like that
<nephele>
it's much indirection to work with
<jmairboeck>
but if you have push rights to haikuwebkit you don't need to create a github fork, just push to a new branch and create a PR from that
<nephele>
pushing to the haiku branch directly sounds easier :)
<nephele>
that's actually a good point though, maybe i can delete my haikuwebkit "fork" then
<nephele>
I wanted to contribute to webkit on github but their script failed, it didn't make a new fork of webkit/webkit but took my haiku/haikuwebkit fork, renamed it, and then failed because the url was haikuwebkit and not webkit
* OscarL
forgot that he switched to Locale to "Spanish Latinoamérica" to test a translation bug, and got really confused seeing git "talk" in Spanish :-D
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<Begasus>
re
<nephele>
begasus, i think you have the most clever nickname here, with a play on words to a pegasus and Be(os), which is haiku the rebirth of beos ;)
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* Begasus
looks around in feer(?)
<Begasus>
it's almost a old as R5 :)
<PulkoMandy>
nephele: it doesn't really help me that you send patch on github… don't really have a convenient otp setup here either. So maid or pastebin or whatever would work just as well for me. Anyway, patch is received, I'll have a look when I have time/motivation to do some Haiku work :)
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<nephele>
PulkoMandy: maybe we should just move off off github with haikuwebkit then?
<PulkoMandy>
I don't want to host it on my own server, so I don't really have a better place to put it
<nephele>
Once I have a bit better upstream I'd be fine hosting it here
<nephele>
although now would probably be fine too. Would have to set up a server for that if that is okay with you
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<PulkoMandy>
There should be more copies of it. So, host your own, and I can pull patches from there. That's how git is supposed to work, not with a single centralized host :)
<nephele>
I have copies of it on severall computers, that isn't the issue. The issues is more for code review + where does haikuports pull it from
<waddlesplash>
I just use SSH to pull/push from github...
<waddlesplash>
much simpler than top
<waddlesplash>
otp
<nephele>
unless we want to distribute our own package
<nephele>
(Personally I'd like more user facing changelogs for haikuwebkit, i'm fine with doing those myself but it's a bit hard to see what changes you did between revisions with all the webkit commits mixed in on github)
<nephele>
Though I suppose if i have a machine running that has enough time it would be feasible to make haikuwebkit "testing" releases for other devs
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<scanty>
does anyone know how close we are to a beta 5?
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<nephele>
somewhat? :)
<scanty>
not really the answer i was looking for ^_^
<PulkoMandy>
scanty: tqere is a roadmap on dev.haiku-os.org, about 25 bugs, none of them really easy
<PulkoMandy>
nephele: I don't change a lot of things, so if you look at my commits it will largely be "fix bugs introduced in the previous release"
<scanty>
I see. well, thanks PulkoMandy
<PulkoMandy>
And if you look at everything else, there's too much to look at and I have no idea what most of it is all about
<nephele>
Hmm, okay. Well I do change some things? i guess i can make changelogs sumarized for multiple versions
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<scanty>
wow super netsplit
<Begasus>
all left :)
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<Begasus>
closing down, cu peeps!
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<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
hey everyone
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
Pulkomandy, im
<PriyanshuGupta[m]>
PulkoMandy sir, Im interested to work on adding the write support issue
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<PulkoMandy>
PriyanshuGupta[m]: hello, sorry I'm not really available right now. I think you can introduce yourself on the forum or mailing list, and ask qustions if you have any. and hopefully other people will be able to help, or I can reply tomorrow if no one else did until then
Guest615 is now known as js
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<nephele>
yes, the matrix "bridge" doesn't know how to keep connections over a restart, so when this thing (routinely) crashes it looses all connections and then slowly rejoins
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<BrunoSpr>
OK
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<coolcoder613_32>
Good morning
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<coolcoder613_32>
Hello BrentNewhall
<coolcoder613_32>
How is your game coming along?
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<zdykstra>
what's on your plate today, coolcoder613_32 ?
* coolcoder613_32
hasn't breakfast yet, so nothing
<BrunoSpr>
hello
<BrunoSpr>
is this correct english: Are the Russian soldier really as good threaded as said?
<BrunoSpr>
or is it treaded?
<BrunoSpr>
as told?
<BrunoSpr>
I am in need on an AI
<coolcoder613_32>
perplexity.ai doesn't need sign-up
<zdykstra>
BrunoSpr: 'as good threaded' doesn't make a lot of sense in the context
<BrunoSpr>
Are the Russian soldiers really as well-trained as they are said to be
<BrunoSpr>
is not correct either
<BrunoSpr>
well treated?
<zdykstra>
well trained would be how skillful they are
<BrunoSpr>
no
<BrunoSpr>
well given food and not beaten i mean
<zdykstra>
'well treated' would work, then
<BrunoSpr>
behandelt auf englisch
<BrunoSpr>
ah great you are better than AI, thanks a lot, or alot?
<zdykstra>
a lot
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<zdykstra>
how do I say "my german is rusty" ?
<nephele>
Mein deutsch ist eingerostet
<zdykstra>
danke, heh
<zdykstra>
that's the great joy of IRC - you get to talk with people all over the world
<BrunoSpr>
Ja genau
<BrunoSpr>
Time for a bit of fun...
<Ellenor>
that's also the crisis of IRC
<rnelson>
Yes, talking with people is a crisis. People are the worst :D
<BrunoSpr>
crisis why?
<Ellenor>
idk
<BrunoSpr>
trained or treated is a big difference for human not for AI... we just learned here?
<BrunoSpr>
!
<BrunoSpr>
Wrong typing too!
<BrunoSpr>
Europe forces us all to learn better english, eh?
<BrunoSpr>
except the English guys, thats why they are not in the EU anymore... lol
<BrunoSpr>
Never stop to learn!
<nephele>
For the A.I "learn" and "learn." and "learn " are three different distinct things
<BrunoSpr>
Haiku makes us to come closer!
<nephele>
Well, next week is FOSDEM, in the capital of europe ;)
<nephele>
hoping to see some haiku devs there
<BrunoSpr>
You think like an AI?
<nephele>
I do not
<BrunoSpr>
sounds like
<nephele>
I can actually tell if i have no clue about something xD
<BrunoSpr>
he thats true
<BrunoSpr>
It is like asking some Thai people about something... Not to answer is not polite!
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<BrunoSpr>
Any Thai here to confirm please!
<Ellenor>
Grumbl at east Ireland. Due to English colonialism, most of the people in Ireland speak English, not Irish.
<Ellenor>
They're making some inroads, but I think they anticipate being a bilingual country for quite some time, especially when they finally reintegrate the Ulster 6..
<Ellenor>
= 7
<BrunoSpr>
So the Irish have to learn Irish at school then?
<BrunoSpr>
Same to Wales?
<BrunoSpr>
The whole western world speaks english is this good for Haiku? I do not want to go off topic... lol
<BrunoSpr>
Because most time I complain!
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<BrentNewhall>
@oolcoder613_32 Ah apologies, just saw your message. Continuing to fiddle with the game.
<BrentNewhall>
Restructuring it to use periodic BMessages, but for some reason now the BView's MouseUp() isn't getting called anymore....
* coolcoder613_32
likes that there is a native game being written for Haiku
<BrentNewhall>
Thanks! Here's hoping I can actually finish it :)
<coolcoder613_32>
Although is like turn-based strategy for than RTS
<nephele>
BrentNewhall: The mouseup should also be with bmessages behind the scenes, are you passing unknown messages back to BApplication?
* coolcoder613_32
likes panzer general-type games, like world conquerer, etc
<BrentNewhall>
Oooooh interesting, yeah I'm overriding MessageReceived(). Does that cause MouseUp() not to get called?
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<nephele>
Probably. There is some default implementation in BApplication that needs to work, for example for say screenshoting. and maybe that mouseup is called by that too
<nephele>
input events are definetely send as BMessages
<nephele>
usually you'd use a switch case for MessageReceived and in the default: case call the parent classes Messagereceived back
<BrentNewhall>
Ooooh great point, I forgot to call the parent class's MessageReceived()
<BrentNewhall>
That did it! I've got a ship moving now. :D Thanks!
* coolcoder613_32
wants some screenshots, even if all you have is red dots on a black screen
<coolcoder613_32>
use the printscreen key
<nephele>
coolcoder613_32: that also doesn't work if you overide the messagereceived wrongfully ;)
<coolcoder613_32>
Screenshots don't work?
<nephele>
the function that tells the app_server what the window dimensions are doesnt work then
<coolcoder613_32>
If you don't do the 'else: BWindow.MessageReceived(msg)'?
<coolcoder613_32>
Sorry for using Python syntax
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<nephele>
pretty much yeah
<nephele>
had severall bugs like that in Renga where some specific windows would not call the parent class and thus you couldn't screenshot just those windows
<BrentNewhall>
one sec
<coolcoder613_32>
Hi zard
* zard
starts working on getting Haiku-PyAPI 2.0 released