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<erysdren>
hi coolcoder613
<erysdren>
how's it going?
<coolcoder613>
Great
<coolcoder613>
It's in the middle of summer vacation where I am
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* coolcoder613
looks out the window: Grey and rainy
<erysdren>
it's -3C here lol
<coolcoder613>
The weather app says 24C
<coolcoder613>
And... it's stopped raining
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<PetePete>
I'ma try to get a little sleep
<PetePete>
be back sometime
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<Ellenor>
coolcoder613, australia eh
<Ellenor>
?
<Ellenor>
it's winter here in Prince George, BC, Canada - but nearly no snow, which normally comes this time. my indoor aspen cuttings have broken dormancy, which I attribute to the fact that I heat my house.
<coolcoder613>
Australia, yes
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<coolcoder613eb>
I am trying to compile a program that uses xattr for Haiku
<coolcoder613eb>
(dosbox-staging)
<coolcoder613eb>
What should i link to provide fsetxattr getxattr srtxattr
<coolcoder613eb>
*setxattr
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<augiedoggie>
libgnu
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<Begasus>
g'morning peeps
<erysdren>
good morning Begasus
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<Begasus>
Hi there erysdren, jmairboeck
<Begasus>
win8linux[m], around?
<win8linux[m]>
Yeah
<Begasus>
ah, 32bit build for the latest merge is broken :)
<botifico-ecd96135>
[haikuports/haikuports] kenmays 0af8ca5 - Dooble: bump to 2023.12.25 (#9931)
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<PetePete>
Good morning all
<Begasus>
Hi there PetePete
<PetePete>
"Hey Begleg" (in my best Hank Hill voice)
<Begasus>
;)
<Begasus_32>
Note te self, don't click on Twitter in CavePacker :P
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<PetePete>
ahhhsnap. he ain't messin' around no mo
<PetePete>
What's CavePacker?
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<OscarL>
Hello Begasus.
<OscarL>
Any particular error? Is that when trying to build with "--with-python[=PYTHON] absolute path name of Python executable" ?
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<OscarL>
Seems it uses python so it can "access a MySQL/MariaDB or PostgreSQL database". Why the heck a Backgammon game needs support for those databases!?!
<OscarL>
:-D
* OscarL
suggest don't even botherting using "--with-python" for gnubg, unless someone complains about missing features.
<OscarL>
sqlite3 should be more than enough :-D
<OscarL>
*suggests: do not even bother [...]. Sigh... my 2024 English still as crappy as 2023's, I see.
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<OscarL>
man... using ViewVC to browse CVS repos takes me WAY back :-D (these GNU guys seems to really love their CVS!)
<kallisti5[m]>
Ok. I have a favor
<kallisti5[m]>
Post here single words that describe Haiku
<OscarL>
to ask or to give?
<kallisti5[m]>
ask :-)
<kallisti5[m]>
Positive, single word attributes that describe Haiku
<Begasus>
Hi OscarL! Yeah thought so, as you are the python master wanted your opinion :)
<Begasus>
kallisti5[m], adventuras(?) can't spell it :)
<OscarL>
Adventurous?
<OscarL>
(in a "the path not taken" kinda way... feels appropieate)
<phschafft>
adventuroos.
<kallisti5[m]>
I think I got what I need. Thanks! 🙈
<PetePete>
Whimsical
<PetePete>
Flatttering
<PetePete>
Flattering, even.
<PetePete>
Charming
<PetePete>
Nostalgic
<PetePete>
Clean
<Begasus>
Think some would call my install "bloated" :P
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<PetePete>
lolol
<PetePete>
Tidy
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<PetePete>
Delightful
<Begasus>
with almost 1700 packages installed here not really tidy :)
<PetePete>
Unique
<PetePete>
Original
<PetePete>
Inventive
<PetePete>
Efficient
<PetePete>
Beg be on that goof
<PetePete>
Creative
<PetePete>
Inspiring
<PetePete>
Unapologetic
<PetePete>
Bright
<PetePete>
Luminescent
<PetePete>
"Orangy"
<PetePete>
"Citrusy"
<PetePete>
Crisp
<PetePete>
"Not Linux"
<PetePete>
Thus, Refreshing.
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<kallisti5[m]>
effervescent
<Begasus>
err ...
<Begasus>
confusing?
<OscarL>
you mispelled "interesting" :-P
<PetePete>
lol@cnfusing
<PetePete>
effervescent is good
<PetePete>
How can I resize my system partition to create a swap partition?
<OscarL>
Backup your install. Delete partition, create new ones :-P
<augiedoggie>
Haiku doesn't use swap partitions
<PetePete>
Well shoot. The system won't install correctly if I don't use the entire disk as a BeOS filesystem (It took me many tries and googling to figure outo that I had to erase all partitions and have just a single partition)
<OscarL>
yeah, what augiedoggie says. I was too focused on the resizing of a BFS partition :-D
<PetePete>
For example: I was creating one Be filesystem and a single swap partition. When I run the install, it installs to the usb drive somehow (maybe not? maybe it's just grub?) and I cannot boot without the install media (and the system stops working when it is removed)
<OscarL>
PetePete: most likely nothing to do with giving it the full disk, but setting the proper partition (and filesystem) types, I would assume.
<PetePete>
It's the most bizarre behavior I've ever seen
<PetePete>
Well, I guess wth 8GB of ram (just found another stick last night and installed it) I probably don't need swap
<augiedoggie>
if you've been messing with the layout you might need to write the boot sector to the disk
<OscarL>
I've managed to do UEFI + GPT + Multiboot (Linux + Haiku) not long ago for the first time. Worked on my first try :-/
* OscarL
is a BIOS/MBR guy :-D
<PetePete>
weird... I don't get it.
<PetePete>
Boot Haiku installer from usb stick > run installer > choose to create partitions > create one beos and one swap > format the beos partition > install CLEARLY to the beos partition > reboot and remove usb, *GRUB ERROR*
<PetePete>
put haiku usb installer back in and boot up > boots into newly installed system *WTF??*
<augiedoggie>
after you select the target disk, choose to write the boot sector from the tools menu of the installer
<PetePete>
remove usb drive because I'm now in > system starts throwing erros everywhere like I detatched the system disk
<PetePete>
augiedoggie except it TELLS me it has installed the boot sector to the beos drive
<PetePete>
I think it is gettng the GRUB config messed up though
<augiedoggie>
if haiku is the only thing installed then grub shouldn't be used
<PetePete>
So is the installer confused about what drive it installs the boot loader? (which I take it, is not Grub - didn't know that btw)
<augiedoggie>
the bootloader and the boot sector are different things
<PetePete>
You know what? Don't answer that. This is stupid. Noto worth anyone's time but mine. I'll play with it on another system. Here is a WAY better question:
<PetePete>
Is there a way to backup everything, including installed programs and settings?
<OscarL>
You can use the Installer to install everything on a new USB drive, for example.
<PetePete>
If not, I wonder if tools like Clonezilla would clone my partition
<OscarL>
(Installer could actually have an option to NOT copy/install things outside "/system/" IMO :-D)
<PetePete>
Oh, I wondered why the installer was present on the installed system. Are you saying it will copy its entire self to a new drive??
<PetePete>
(I'm tech retarded by the way)
<OscarL>
AFAICT... it copies everything under /system/ and $HOME.
<OscarL>
not sure about other dirs under "/"
<PetePete>
MUST TRY THIS NAO!!!
<OscarL>
"/" as in... "/boot/" (it surely won't try to copy other things you see mounted on "/").
<OscarL>
PetePete: if you are willing to nuke that disk... I'd suggest you use DriveSetup' "Disk->Initialize", choosing GUID (for UEFI) or Intel (for BIOS). Only after that, create your new partitions.
<PetePete>
OscarL What I usualy do is use linux gdisks to nuke the gpt and mbr
<OscarL>
* GUID and Intel "map" not the "Intel Extended partition" there.
<PetePete>
it destroys both the beginning and the end of the gpt drives
<PetePete>
it then becomes totally "bare"
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<OscarL>
some times people "reuse" partitions created with GParted (or other Linux tools), and some how end up with Haiku installing on those partitions, but their ID is wrong, so the bootloader does not finds them :-/
<OscarL>
Double check in DriveSetup that BOTH "FileSystem type" AND "Partition type" read "Be File System".
<PetePete>
I prefer NUUUUUKE!!! *in my best Invader Zim voice*
<OscarL>
(you might need to scroll DriveSetup's partition table WAY to the right to see the latter)
<PetePete>
Yeah, I noticed that the other day
<OscarL>
Perhaps that column shouldbe moved next to the "File system" one :-D
<Begasus>
this can be addictive :P
<OscarL>
Well, you can move it. I mean... by default.
<OscarL>
Begasus: playing backgammon, or nuking partitions?
<lebrancess[m]>
Is 3d acceleration for mesa finally out and steam?
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<OscarL>
sure, along with "System Shock 3", and "Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (Part Deux)". (we all have our pipe dreams :-P)
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<Begasus>
There is enough gameplay around :P
<Begasus>
not sure anymore what I patched earlier with gnubg ...
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<jmairboeck>
Begasus: I think you should re-do the patchset for that ... (sorry for the inconvenience, but an 8000 line patchset looked a bit suspicious)
<Begasus>
looking into that jmairboeck
<Begasus>
probably messed up earlier creating the patchset
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<Begasus>
doesn't seem to be needed on 64bit, maybe I should take a brake ;)
<OscarL>
always nice to have jmairboeck checking things up!
<Begasus>
right!
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<jmairboeck>
thanks OscarL and Begasus!
<OscarL>
:-)
* OscarL
thinks PartitionListView::PartitionListView() could use a reshuffle of its columns order (my lazy change to the enum was not enough, heh)
<OscarL>
Also... the auto-risize of columns width on double-click on columns separators... leaves too much empty space. Wonder if that's a DriveSetup, or BColumnListView issue.
<Begasus>
builds ok also on 32bit without patching ... must have had some things crossed :O
<Begasus>
just getting a crash when configure runs on 32bit (clicking the crash window away doesn't brake the build though)
<Begasus_32>
checking for x86-AVX xgetbv 0x00000000 output...
<Begasus>
think that's where it's crashing, is that a bad thing? ;)
<jmairboeck>
maybe AVX isn't supported in 32 bit mode?
<Begasus>
hence me asking, as mentioned conftest continues and the build finishes fine
<jmairboeck>
I vaguely remember something, that AVX was only enabled for x86_64 (I think it was waddlesplash who implemented this, or korli)
<waddlesplash>
korli
<Begasus>
doesn't crash for AVX512-$ it seems
<Begasus>
$/* ...
<jmairboeck>
it could be that your CPU doesn't support that at all, so the check does what it should
<jmairboeck>
AVX-512 is rather new, or only for special things like the Intel Xeon Phi or something that. I don't remember that exactly any more
<Begasus>
probably should disable it for 32bit then (or disable the check)?
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<OscarL>
If you disable the check, make sure the default is OFF (not use AVX).
<humdinger>
hullo!
<Begasus>
--disable-cuptest didn't do the trick
<Begasus>
wb humdinger
<humdinger>
Begasus: you an Otter user. What user agent do you use in the Haiku forums?
<jmairboeck>
did you mean cputest?
<Begasus>
but this could be a thing on older 64bit ones too?
<OscarL>
I would disable AVX altogether, to be honest. I think we should always target baseline x86_64 instruction set (or my CPUs won't be able to handle it :-P)
<OscarL>
hello humdinger!
<Begasus>
heh right jmairboeck :)
<humdinger>
hey OscarL!
<Begasus>
what agent humdinger?
<humdinger>
the forum complains about the browser being unsupported.
<humdinger>
thought with another user agent it'd work...
<OscarL>
now that you are here... I can't do much on "https://i18n.kacperkasper.pl/" due to lack of permissions. I'm told you're the guy to call on such cases :-D
<jmairboeck>
OscarL: it can be enabled if the software detects support at runtime and uses it if available, but for packages it shouldn't be enabled at compile time, you are right :)
<Begasus>
mostly WebPositive, sometimes Falkon here
<Begasus>
Firefox on Windows ...
<humdinger>
OscarL: which languages would you like?
<OscarL>
indeed, autodetection of CPU features is always good. Bad when they are assumed. /me gives Lagrange the evil eye!
<humdinger>
Begasus: I thought you were an Otter user...
<Begasus>
switched to Falkon a while back (did Angelfish in between too though) :)
<OscarL>
humdinger: Spanish, and whatever Latin-American version it is called. es-419, I believe.
<humdinger>
I'm also a Web+ user, but since the checkmarks and radio button currently don't work with it...
<humdinger>
OscarL: Done.
<humdinger>
too late for KeyCursor though :)
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<Begasus>
commenting in the forum doesn't always work in Falkon/WebPositive, then I switch to the other
<OscarL>
Thanks, yeah. :-D. Thanks for your work humdinger!
* humdinger
blushes, staring at his shoes...
<Begasus>
watch your head!
<humdinger>
sitting safely on the sofa
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<Begasus>
ah, good then ;)
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<OscarL>
Seems our aussie friends are having Internet issues today.
<Begasus>
--enable-simd=TYPE enable SIMD usage for newer cpus (TYPE=yes,fma,avx,sse2,neon,no)
<Begasus>
how should I declare that there?
<jmairboeck>
for x86_64, sse2 is safe because every such CPU implements that, but probably gcc should be smart enough to use it, so in general, "no" is probably the safest
<jmairboeck>
neon is for arm
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<Begasus>
last check for today, if this doesn't work I'll hunt down further tomorrow
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<OscarL>
Begasus: beware if you see SSE4 thou! That belongs to x86_64_v2 (and early 64 bits CPUS, like mine are plain v1 :-D)
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<OscarL>
Genio's "Genio project..." menu item should be more clear that it will open a webpage.
<OscarL>
Also... it could use more "context" info/text/hints to help traslators :-D
<OscarL>
"wrap"... yeah... let me guess how that it is used! :-D
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<humdinger>
you should always have the app open while translating. :)
<humdinger>
But you're right ofc.
<humdinger>
we should all use B_TRANSLATE_COMMENT more often
<humdinger>
unfortunately Polyglot resets translated blocks when changing the translation macro.
<OscarL>
Just noticed that "wrap" isn't "wrap long lines" (or "Alineación de líneas" as in the Spanish translation says), but "wrap around while search reach the end of the text" :-D
<OscarL>
and that's why /me ends up using English only :-D
<OscarL>
it was "Ajuste de línea", not "Alineación de líneas" (that would be EXTRA bad :-D)
<humdinger>
oh. good call. I mad ethe same mistake for German. In the search bar it's different than in the console I/O... :)
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* OscarL
notices the "Upload XXX.catkey" button.
* zard
is learning about these translation-related problems for the first time
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* humdinger
wonders what to call "wrap around" in German...
<OscarL>
a good translation is priceless. Doing good translation work is HARD, and hardly anyone notices when it is properly done :-D
<Habbie>
but everybody notices when it's bad
<phschafft>
humdinger: Sich den Fuß in die Ohren stecken!
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<jmairboeck>
humdinger: "von vorne beginnen"
<OscarL>
indeed. I HATE bad translations so much, I rather use broken English :-D
<jmairboeck>
phschafft: lol
<humdinger>
"Fuß in die Ohren" passt aber besser... :P
<humdinger>
has to be super short as well
<phschafft>
Es ist bald wieder zeit fuer ostereier. ;)
<Habbie>
Zwei Ohren Eine Fuß?
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<humdinger>
its a german Koan
<PetePete>
Install ot usb drive seems to have failed. I'm no good at this
<Habbie>
humdinger, i figured :) like foot-in-mouth
<zard>
Is that what it means?
<Habbie>
i don't know!
<Habbie>
it just is anatomically close ;)
<OscarL>
Ouroborus mode!
<zard>
I know lol
<humdinger>
it means nothing. not even a real saying german.
<humdinger>
or maybe where phschafft lives it is...
<Habbie>
in Hochdeutschland
<humdinger>
ah. the Zugspitze
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<Habbie>
&vorne makes vorne a word that already had some translated meaning elsewhere?
<jmairboeck>
no, that is the ampersand to mark the underlined keyboard shortcut
<Habbie>
oh right!
<jmairboeck>
again, a feature of Windows Forms in this case
<OscarL>
I think I using & for that even on Delphi 2. I'm getting old :-D
<jmairboeck>
In WPF they changed it to an underscore, so it is different depending on which GUI framework the code in question is using (and we use both in our software ...)
<OscarL>
standards... we should have more of those!
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<jmairboeck>
OscarL: I was thinking of exactly the same :)
<zard>
So was I, lol
<Begasus>
heh, OK we still got room :)
<zard>
And then there's the situation where the standard is pretty bad and you wish you could do something better but your stuck with following the standard.
<OscarL>
the "alt-text" on xkcd's images are priceless :-D
<humdinger>
There's no short translation for "wrap around"
<humdinger>
I'm tempted to use a symbol: ∞
<OscarL>
Something similar to "Volver al inicio", "Comenzar de nuevo" ("Back to start" , "Start again") ?
<OscarL>
(for the Find/search context at least)
<jmairboeck>
That is essentially what I suggested, but it is still longer than the English text
<humdinger>
nothing that short.
<humdinger>
much longer...
<humdinger>
Endlossuche
<humdinger>
Schleife
<OscarL>
<insert video of Hideo Kojima's long speech... translator: "He says: Thanks">
<humdinger>
Ende->Anfang
<jmairboeck>
yeah, would be possible I think
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<humdinger>
at least one can iagine what it does
<humdinger>
*imagine
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<humdinger>
enough for today
<humdinger>
cyall tomorrow
* humdinger
waves
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<OscarL>
Cool video, mmu_man. Thanks for sharing it.
<Anarchos>
mmu_man can't play in web+ :)
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<OscarL>
Anarchos: yt-dlp to the rescue?
<OscarL>
Weird.. I can set "Preffered languages" as "Spanish (Latinomérica)" + "English", but I cannot add another variation of Spanish (even the "top level" one).
<OscarL>
I assume that means that, no matter the variation of base language, if there are no exact matching catkeys it will default to the ones for the base/top_level language?
<OscarL>
And... Locale preflet crashed on me :-D
<OscarL>
Exception on "BListItem::IsSelected() const + 0" while half-assing a drag-and-drop (probably already fixed on nightlies)
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<augiedoggie>
i think Skipp_OSX was just messing with that stuff
<Skipp_OSX>
I definitely was ...
<OscarL>
yeah, thus why I figure it's already fixed on nightlies.
<Skipp_OSX>
I did test on Locale settings you should be able to auto scroll... but if it crashes that's on me
<Skipp_OSX>
please retest and report back I'd like to know if it's crashing when you get a chance.
<OscarL>
Mmm, git package seems to come with "es.mo" translations, but even after changing prefered language to Spanish, starting a fresh Terminal... `locale -l` outpus: "es"... git still in English :-/
<OscarL>
Skipp_OSX: will as soon as I get a nightly going. All beta4 for now :-/
<Skipp_OSX>
ok good
<Skipp_OSX>
I think it should be fixed on latest nightly, can find exact hrev if needed
<Skipp_OSX>
beta 4 is safe... although I would like my Tracker settings fix applied on b4
<Skipp_OSX>
but i don't think it's going to happen so you're prob safe there too
<Skipp_OSX>
no auto-scrolling in Locale or anywhere else in beta4
<Skipp_OSX>
well... except Icon-O-Matic and WonderBrush of course...
* OscarL
needs to use git in Spanish (for the first time ever) to help with Genio's translation.
<Skipp_OSX>
are we sure that's not controlled by an environmental variable?
<OscarL>
I have ZERO idea what things are called in Spanish :-D
<OscarL>
`LANG=es git -h` does not. but `LC_ALL=es git -h` does.
<Skipp_OSX>
alias='export LANG=es_ES git' in your ~/.bashrc to make it permanent
<Skipp_OSX>
es_ES
<Skipp_OSX>
due to ... reasons
<OscarL>
`es` work for now. it is the only one that the git package has.
<Skipp_OSX>
yeah LANG or LC_ALL depends on system
<Skipp_OSX>
ok good well happy it works one way or the other
<OscarL>
Shouldn't that be handled by Locale preflet? (I mean... setting all the LC_ vars?
<OscarL>
it DOES it for formatting stuff.
<Skipp_OSX>
I don't know maybe
<Skipp_OSX>
PulkoMandy would know
<OscarL>
`LC_NUMERIC=es_AR.UTF-8` << I have that, for example.
<OscarL>
Maybe I need a reboot?... let's see.
<scanty>
if it's in your .bashrc, you should be able to "source ~/.bashrc" (no quotes)
<OscarL>
people... this is Haiku... we use `profile` for bash here :-P
<Skipp_OSX>
oh ok sure that then
<scanty>
sorry :-(
<OscarL>
scanty: and off with you and that "." in front of names! :-P
<Skipp_OSX>
I can never find the bash settings on Haiku
<Skipp_OSX>
yes dot files
<Skipp_OSX>
lazy 1970 programming mistake that turned into a feature
<OscarL>
the subtle difference bewteen "login vs non-login shells"... ie, we use bash -l (that read profile instead of .bashrc :-D)
<OscarL>
s/read/reads/
<Skipp_OSX>
right right this should prob go in th login shell anyway
<scanty>
sorry for my ignorance, it's been a really, really long time.
<OscarL>
just messing with ya scanty! 98% of the time... I don't know what I'm talking about.
<scanty>
haha, it's all good :^)
* OscarL
hits DEL to remove English from the list of preffered languages. It works :-P. Reboot time.
* OscarL
needs a faster PC, or at least find out why Haiku is getting slower to boot :-/
<OscarL>
enabling timestamps in syslog, and sending that to serial port should at least give some pointers, no?
<OscarL>
k. After a reboot, `set | grep LC` shows most things as "es.UTF-8" (LC_ALL is unset), except for: "LC_TYPE=en_US.UTF-8" 8-/
<OscarL>
`git -h` shows help text in Spanish right away.
<OscarL>
`/system/boot/SetupEnvironment` does: `export LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8"` so... that's were it comes from.
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<OscarL>
s/were/where/
<OscarL>
And... the rest of the LC_* are also set there. So... We should just find a way to make new bash sessions pick up those changes?
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<OscarL>
maybe `/system/settings/etc/profile` should also contain those `export LC_xxx=` lines? mmm, let's see.
<OscarL>
that worked (so shell sessions pickup language changes in Locale without the need for a reboot).
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<OscarL>
tried setting pt, but silly git only has pt_PT, tss!
<OscarL>
setting Português (Portugal) worked. I would expect some better "degradation" in locales... as in... Set en_UK, use that if en_UK.{mo,catkeys} is pressent, use es.{mo,catkeys} if only the latter is available.
<OscarL>
After setting my language to es_419 or es_AR... git correctly falls back to the more generic "es" (after not finding es_419, or es_AR). That's good. So... the issue with git and Portuguese is that it provides only pt_PT and no generic "pt" :-D
<OscarL>
(leaving pt_BR users in the dust)
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<OscarL>
Mmm still have a "LC_TYPE=en_US.UTF-8" for some reason (different than "LC_CTYPE=es_AR.UTF-8") :-/
<Skipp_OSX>
It seems like it should be LC_CTYPE not LC_TYPE but we should also set LC_CTYPE in Locale and these environmental variables confuse me
<Skipp_OSX>
"On Unix, the result is determined by checking the LC_ALL, LC_TYPE, and LANG environment variables, in that order (and the result is used if the environment variable’s value starts with two lowercase ASCII letters, an underscore, and two uppercase ASCII letters, followed by either nothing or a period)."