ChanServ changed the topic of #haiku to: Open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. | https://haiku-os.org | Nightlies: https://download.haiku-os.org | Bugtracker: https://dev.haiku-os.org | SCM: https://git.haiku-os.org/ | Logs: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/haiku | Matrix: #haiku:matrix.org | XMPP: #haiku%irc.oftc.net@irc.jabberfr.org
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<clee> okay, got the VF2 firmware updated to version 3.1.5, built a nightly-mmc image, flashed that to an NVME SSD, set the bootcmd and boot targets, aaaand it crashes when trying to boot. https://pastebin.com/vYTFEXJR
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<slidercrank> hello. how do I edit grub.cfg on the the first partition (ext2) from loaded Haiku?
<slidercrank> I can mount it. But how do I open the file? with what? nano? what is the path to the mounted partition?
<slidercrank> didn't find 'mnt' or 'mount'
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<slidercrank> for some reason Haiku doesn't offer to select nano when I choose "open with". but it eagerly goes to backtrace (runs a debugger)
<slidercrank> disregard my questions. I figured it out
<clee> apparently it didn't like having an SD card and an NVME disk inserted at the same time. I just got Haiku booting off NVME on the VF2!
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<phschafft> didn't someone in here write a DOS ".com" file emulator as a quick hack?
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<moparisthebest> Doesn't dosbox run on haiku ?
<phschafft> I think so.
<phschafft> but I'm looking specifically for that code.
<coolcoder613> Was it erysdren?
<phschafft> I think you might be correct. :)
<phschafft> I think that is that file. :)
<phschafft> thank you coolcoder613 :)
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<erysdren> phschafft: howdy yeah that was me
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<phschafft> considering to use your work as a template to write a little emulator myself.
<phschafft> if that is fine with you.
<erysdren> sure
<erysdren> no idea what license i put on it, but a link back to my website or github would be appreciated
<erysdren> otherwise, do what you like
* phschafft nods.
<phschafft> currently this will be a private toy project.
<erysdren> cool
<erysdren> what's your plan?
* coolcoder613 doesn't think erysdren put it on github
<phschafft> but I'm more than happy to give credit :)
<erysdren> i just meant my github profile haha
<phschafft> erysdren: I consider it to be a little fun application for that research project that is an 'OS' for AVRs.
<erysdren> sounds cool
<phschafft> I was wondering what I could add to show that you could 'script'.
<phschafft> but adding a tiny VM would surely be a good thing as we already have a lot of tooling for that.
<phschafft> the biggest problem however is RAM.
<erysdren> ive been thinking of writing an embeddable RISC-V CPU virtual machine that could be embedded into anything
<erysdren> written in C, of course
<erysdren> then you could use any existing RISC-V toolchains, as long as you could use my custom link steps.
<phschafft> for example I need to have the opcode table and the interrupt table in program memory.
<erysdren> ah yeah
<erysdren> im a big fan of writing toy VMs, but i hate writing compilers and language toolchains
<phschafft> given that the OS still needs some RAM I have about 1KB.
<phschafft> the little debug program I wrote currently reports:
<phschafft> RAM: 256 - 2303 = 2048 Bytes
<phschafft> Free: 1556 Bytes
<erysdren> oof
<erysdren> what's an AVR?
<phschafft> 8 bit micro controller.
<erysdren> ahh
<phschafft> this is a big one, normally I work on smaller ons.
<phschafft> +e
<phschafft> they generally have a powerful core, but memory (all kinds) is always a limiting factor.
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<phschafft> erysdren: do I actually need to provide memory 0x00 - 0xFF (below the loaded program)?
<erysdren> nah
<erysdren> you can just start at 0 i think
<erysdren> i was doing that to more "accurately" emulate the CPU in some unspecified way
<erysdren> i think
<phschafft> so basically my layout is the program memory (which has the size as given by the problem) and then the modifiable RAM.
<phschafft> erysdren: no, I just want to skip that area if unused as it would waste like 1/4 of the RAM ;)
<erysdren> ah yeah
<phschafft> would just segfault the VM on access.
<phschafft> (I need to actually implement the memory access functions, so if the address is wrong I can just terminate the VM)
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<phschafft> hm.
<phschafft> I think I have ported the op codes and interrupts.
<phschafft> now the lookup tables need to be ported as they take /way/ too much ROM. so much that gcc rejects the build. ;)
<erysdren> oof
<erysdren> sorry lol
<phschafft> converting your lookup tables into code.
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<coolcoder613> Hi HaikuUser
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<phschafft> ok, it compiles.
<phschafft> now I need to register it with the OS.
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<phschafft> erysdren: em...
<erysdren> what's up?
<phschafft> still need to write the actual loading (currently the program is just a hard coded string, but that is all minor stuff for tomorrow)
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<phschafft> /3"blabla" searches for the program. it is found at 594 with the local temp. alias *2 being set to it. so the next line when '*2' calls the program.
<phschafft> the T: tells that it was correctly selected, and after that follows the output from your com file. :)
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<phschafft> that sad, thank you for your support and have a good night. :)
<erysdren> have a good night!
<erysdren> nice to see that it works :D
<phschafft> :)
<phschafft> it's fun.
<phschafft> because it's so strange.
<phschafft> but now, good night for real :)
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<coolcoder613_> Hello Cliff
<Cliff> Nice. There are a lot of people in here
<Cliff> hi!
<erysdren> hello!
<Cliff> I still have all my original BeOS install CDs from when it first came out
<Cliff> It was my primary OS for quite a while
* coolcoder613_ still has his BeOS laptop from a few weeks ago
<Cliff> I've also been using IRC since the mid 1990s
<Cliff> Also have all the ZetaOS install CDs from when they came out, too
<Cliff> Just installed Haiku in a VM on my dual Xeon linux box
<coolcoder613_> What did you use? QEMU?
<Cliff> What did I use for what?
<coolcoder613_> To create a VM of Haiku
<Cliff> BeOS and Zeta were directly installed on the hardware I had back then. Haiku is currently in a VM in VirtualBox
<Cliff> Oh, I just used VirtualBox and used the ISO to install it
<coolcoder613_> Haiku doesn't perform well in VirtualBox, try using KVM or VMWare
<Cliff> It seems to be fine so far since I have 36 cores, 72 threads and 128GB of RAM on a 4TB m.2
<Cliff> nothing has lagged in the slightest so far
* coolcoder613_ is green with envy ;)
<Cliff> This was a stupid cheap build. Under $700 for everything. Slightly over 700 since I added RGB and dual AIO liquid coolers.
<Cliff> Started buying 1 or 2 parts per month from March and built it in September
<Cliff> that way it didn't feel like it was expensive
<coolcoder613_> My most specced out machine is a base model m1 macbook air :(
<Cliff> The only Mac hardware I've ever owned is a 2007 iMac with a core2 Duo and that was given to me
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<Cliff> I maxed it out with 6GB RAM and a 240GB SataSSD
<Cliff> hi v_harkonnen
* coolcoder613_ has 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD
<Cliff> That old iMac still runs fine with a lightweight Debian based Linux
<coolcoder613_> for around 1250 AUD
<Cliff> Each of these Xeon CPUs are used, and cost $36 USD each
<coolcoder613_> Where are you? Can you build one for me?
<v_harkonnen> Hello
<Cliff> Using DDR4 ECC server RAM since it was so cheap on eBay
<Cliff> I'm on the east coast of the US, so shipping would be hefty to AU
<Cliff> One of my good friends lives in Sydney, but she doesn't know how to build computers. lol
<Cliff> Even if I sent her all the parts
* coolcoder613_ has one desktop
<coolcoder613_> It runs Haiku, and it is 32-bit with 3G of RAM
<Cliff> I have ... uh ... a dozen+ desktops, and a pile of laptops
<Cliff> been building computers since the mid 1990s
<Cliff> and I got my first computer in 1982
<Cliff> Was recently given 5 Lenovo miniPCs that are 8th gen i7 8700T with 500GB m.2 drives, 16GB RAM
<erysdren> sheesh lol
<Cliff> Getting some more of those
<erysdren> i'd love some of those
<erysdren> just for tinkering
<Cliff> I've been giving them to friends as set-top streaming boxes and emulator game boxes for their TVs
<Cliff> I figured since I get them free, I may as well make them into nice machines, and pass them alone
<Cliff> I figured since I get them free, I may as well make them into nice machines, and pass them along
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* coolcoder613_ wants a /my command
* coolcoder613_ has six computers
<coolcoder613_> with RAM from 64MB to 8GB and storage from 4.8GB to 1TB
<Cliff> M.2 drives are so stupid cheap any more
<Cliff> 4TB was only $134
<Cliff> and 128GB RAM was only $94
<coolcoder613_> My BeOS laptop cost me $5
<coolcoder613_> AUD
<Cliff> Thats almost the best price
<Cliff> however, free is the best price
<Cliff> My daily driver laptio I got for free
<Cliff> 12th gen i7 HP that I build out of 3 broken laptops
<Cliff> *built
<coolcoder613_> My desktop was free though
<Cliff> Oh nice, a screenless laptop
<Cliff> I once installed a laptop mobo inside an LCD TV case
<Cliff> lol
<erysdren> i can never find any free computers :(
<erysdren> USA sucks for that
<erysdren> atleast, my area
<Cliff> I get free comptuers from the local county dumpsters in their electronics recycle
<Cliff> and I'm in USA
<coolcoder613_> My other computers include this: https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/i-built-a-raspberry-pi-tablet/14266
<Cliff> I was given a pi 3 and have not done anything with it yet
<coolcoder613_> a thinkpad T430 running Haiku with 8GB of RAM and a SSD
<Cliff> nice
<coolcoder613_> and an old HP laptop
<erysdren> i have a bootleg "Intel" fanless mini-pc from china
<Cliff> those are fun
<erysdren> couldn't figure out how to install anything on it though :/
<erysdren> booted Haiku from USB, but Haiku couldn't see the internal drive
<Cliff> did you go through the bios to make sure everything was set for it to see the internal drive?
<erysdren> tbh, no
<erysdren> i was getting really frustrated with it
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<erysdren> its back in a box right now
<coolcoder613_> run BSD maybe?
<coolcoder613_> Or.. ToaruOS?
* coolcoder613_ likes alternative operating systems, but Haiku is my favorite
<Cliff> I loved BeOS when it first came out
<Cliff> and really wished it could have continued, so Haiku makes me happy
<Cliff> I have a working P4 mobo and an IDE HDD, so I may see about installing BeOS 5 on it from my original CDs
<Cliff> ok .... it's after 0100 (1AM) so I am going to go find some sleep
<erysdren> good night
<Cliff> Everyone be well
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* vdamewood gets coffee.
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<coolcoder613_> Hi Begasus
<Begasus> Hi coolcoder613_
<Begasus> g'morning peeps
<Begasus> x512[m], sorry 'bout yesterday, had been up real early and was beat up tired, had to save that question for today :)
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<Begasus> biab ... dogs :)
<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] augiedoggie pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-0/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/1c28733f5f94...2c48a6a82a4b
<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] augiedoggie 2c48a6a - libnfs: add 5.0.2 (#9989)
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<Begasus> re
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<Begasus> Could not find a package configuration file provided by "KF6ColorScheme" ... tss :)
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<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-0/±0] https://github.com/haikuports/haikuports/compare/2c48a6a82a4b...d5bf3507e092
<botifico-ecd96135> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus d5bf350 - qt6_qtspeech, add missing (#9990)
<Begasus> bugger, now 32bit buildmaster is down ...
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<phschafft> hm, a michael. hm.
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<Begasus> g'morning phschafft :)
<phschafft> best of a morning to you as well. :)
<Begasus> thanks, half way through here :)
<phschafft> after my posting, I consider that the next step might be a little nap. ;)
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<Begasus> ... let's see how the tests go for kio ...
<Begasus> lol, not :)
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<zeldakatze[m]> hello
<mbrumbelow> Hey Begasus. Saw your message on Github. Thanks for the feedback.
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<zard> zeldakatze[m]: Welcome :)
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<zeldakatze[m]> I've just tried to install Haiku on an ideapad 100-15IBY
<zeldakatze[m]> I used the latest nightly, and with acpi enabled, it crashes on an assertion. It doesn't seem to write a syslog, as the only syslogs I could get were from it starting without acpi. Does someone know how to get a syslog? Then I'd create a bug report, as I could not find one describing that
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<Begasus> zeldakatze[m], not that familiar there, but isn't there a boot option in the menu to show output log?
<zeldakatze[m]> there is, but it's not written to disk
<zeldakatze[m]> I'll quickly try again
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<Begasus> should show some output on screen
<Begasus> iirc
<zeldakatze[m]> I just somehow managed to miss that option, it's hiding in plain sight
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<Begasus> baib
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<augiedoggie> seems like haikudepot isn't updating, the latest packages are from a couple of days ago
<augiedoggie> at least the web version, haven't looked in the app
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<andreasdr[m]> Hi there.
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<andreasdr[m]> phschafft: Cool. I just liked!
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<zdykstra> it's -15F outside, and just too dang cold in my basement office
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<Begasus> zdykstra, maybe seek some higher grounds? ;)
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<bitigchi[m]> So, how do I open a folder as a project in Genio?
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<phschafft> Thank you. :)
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<BoxingOctopus[m]> Hey folks, I'm trying to install Haiku on an Acer Aspire 3 A315-21. I'm booting Haiku off of a USB stick, but the installer won't let me install to the laptop's SSD.
<BoxingOctopus[m]> I tried clicking on "tools" and going to "set up boot menu", but it shows the SSD as being an "incompatible format".
<BoxingOctopus[m]> I've reinitialized the drive with a GUID Partition Map, but it still shows as incompatible.
<BoxingOctopus[m]> I've tried with several other drives, and they all say "incompatible format"
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<BoxingOctopus[m]> I tried reinitializing with an Intel Partition Map as well
<BoxingOctopus[m]> still get the same error
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<diver> BoxingOctopus[m]: "incompatible format" means that there is no MBR
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<BoxingOctopus[m]> diver: okay, so how do I set up this drive then?? The drive I want to install to is greyed out in the installer.
<BoxingOctopus[m]> sorry if this is a silly-seeming question, but I'm kinda new to running Haiku on bare metal. I've only ever run it on VMs before.
<zard> bitigchi[m]: Don't have my Haiku machine on atm, but, iirc it was some relatively simple menu option.
<zard> But, I, too, did have trouble finding it at first
<diver> you should be able to init MBR drive in DriveSetup's Disk menu
<BoxingOctopus[m]> diver: the only options I see under "Initialize" in the Disk menu are "Intel Extended Partition", "GUID Partition Map", and "Intel Partition Map"
<diver> Intel Partition Map is MBR
<BoxingOctopus[m]> okay, reinitialized with Intel Partition Map. Let's see what happens.
<BoxingOctopus[m]> still says Incompatible Format.
<BoxingOctopus[m]> do I need to reboot or something??
<diver> take a screenshot of DriveSetup, something is not right
<zdykstra> did you create a partition?
<BoxingOctopus[m]> zdykstra: no, left it unpartitioned
<diver> you need MBR and a partition
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<augiedoggie> the install guide covers this and has nice pretty pictures :P https://www.haiku-os.org/get-haiku/installation-guide/
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<BoxingOctopus[m]> cool, that did it. Thanks!
<diver> we should improve this text in BootManager, this is not the first time "incompatible format" caused confusion
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<extrowerk> ping
<Begasus> pong
<extrowerk> Thx. I mis-configured my IRC and haven't received an message for 2 days or so...
<Begasus> good thing there are the logs :)
<extrowerk> i was suspecting some misconfiguration yeserday, but i was able to send messages and it showed up in the irc log, but otherwise there wasn't any big activity as i checked, so i wasn't sure.
<bitigchi[m]> <zard> "bitigchi: Don't have my Haiku..." <- I think open project… clicked, let’s see what’ll happen
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<x512[m]> socat not yet ported to Haiku?
<Begasus> nothing shows up with inrecipe, so probably not
<BoxingOctopus[m]> hey folks, got another issue: Can't seem to get wireless networking going on this laptop
<BoxingOctopus[m]> tried running the script from the docs
<BoxingOctopus[m]> but I'm relatively certain this laptop has an atheros chipset
<BoxingOctopus[m]> not broadcom or marvell
<BoxingOctopus[m]> and I noticed the script only seems to install drivers for broadcom and marvell
<BoxingOctopus[m]> is there a separate process for atheros cards?
<waddlesplash> the script is only for very old hardware
<waddlesplash> anything recent has firmware bundled
<waddlesplash> newer atheros isn't supported at all; slightly old atheros doesn't need firmware
<waddlesplash> so, check if FreeBSD supports your device
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev57511] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=8e4a60d3f18a+%5Ea38355a48316
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 8e4a60d3f18a - PCI: handle "non fixed" addresses
<BoxingOctopus[m]> waddlesplash: okay, but broadcom shouldn't have any trouble?
<waddlesplash> broadcom is barely supported really
<BoxingOctopus[m]> so what should I be looking out for?
<BoxingOctopus[m]> what IS supported?
<waddlesplash> what do you mean?
<x512[m]> Haiku have no getaddrinfo support?
<waddlesplash> oh. Intel chipsets mostly
<waddlesplash> x512[m]: ? we definitely have that?
<BoxingOctopus[m]> cool. I'll see if I can get an Intel-based card for this laptop then
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<x512[m]> Or Autotools sucks as usual.
<waddlesplash> BoxingOctopus[m]: a number of Realtek USB dongles also work (whatever ones FreeBSD supports)
<waddlesplash> x512[m]: need -lnetwork
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<BoxingOctopus[m]> waddlesplash: I'd like to avoid dongles if I can, but good to know nonetheless :)
<waddlesplash> ok
<waddlesplash> well, basically all Intel cards should work. check both FreeBSD and OpenBSD compatibility lists (we should support anything either of them do; OpenBSD specifically has the drivers for the newest stuff while FreeBSD doesn't)
<waddlesplash> but also note, if you're buying a new card, that there are some Intel cards which only work with Intel CPUs/motherboards
<waddlesplash> so watch out for that
<BoxingOctopus[m]> will do, thanks for the tip :)
<BoxingOctopus[m]> oh, this isn't a dealbreaker, but what is bluetooth support like right now in Haiku?
<waddlesplash> poor
<BoxingOctopus[m]> figured as much lol
<waddlesplash> we have a bluetooth stack but it's dusty
<waddlesplash> basically no drivers actually use it
<waddlesplash> you can pair. that's about it
<BoxingOctopus[m]> gotcha
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<x512[m]> waddlesplash: Is there an option in Haiku to open terminal over UNIX socket?
<waddlesplash> what do you mean?
<x512[m]> Needed for QEMU monitor.
<waddlesplash> still not sure what you are asking here
<x512[m]> Type characters to terminal -> write to socket. Read characters from socked printed to terminal.
<x512[m]> socat can do that, but it seems not ported to Haiku.
<waddlesplash> TTYs are distinct from sockets, yes
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<x512[m]> So I need to connect UNIX socket to stdin/stdout.
<PulkoMandy> Isn't that just netcat?
<waddlesplash> that sounds like what "socat" itself does?
<waddlesplash> this isn't an inherent POSIX feature
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<PulkoMandy> Ah maybe netcat is tcp/udp only and you need socat. Anyway it should not be a problem to compile it? Seems just a case of "nobody needed it before" to me
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<x512[m]> socat wants various TTY definitions missing in Haiku.
<extrowerk> BoxingOctopus[m]: i am not sure what's the state of USB audio, but you can check the Creative BT-W5 (or similar) product. It is a small USB dongle, which shows up as a USB sound card for the OS and takes care about the bluetooth connectivity, so no Bluetooth support needed from the host OS to be able to listen music over a wireless headphone.
<x512[m]> socat: xioinitialize.c:69:xioinitialize: F_GETFD == F_SETFD-1
<extrowerk> But probably the USB audio support in Haiku is not mature enough to support that
<waddlesplash> x512[m]: well our F_GETFD is not F_SETFD-1, but why is that important?
<x512[m]> Who knows...
<x512[m]> /* these dependencies required in applyopts() for OFUNC_FCNTL */
<x512[m]> This is what assert comment says.
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 2 commits to master [hrev57512] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=6533df4fe4bc+%5E8e4a60d3f18a
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 7bcc4a30f93c - openbsd_wlan: Synchronize net80211 with OpenBSD.
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] 6533df4fe4bc - iaxwifi200 & idualwifi7260: Synchronize with OpenBSD.
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<Begasus> First success :D https://0x0.st/HURp.90.png
<zard> Wow! I didn't know those weren't ported yet. Those are my usual text editors on Linux!
<Begasus> have been around for a while zard :)
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<x512[m]> qemu -monitor tcp: and nc worked.
<Begasus> it's just these are from the latest release and the RC1 from frameworks/6.0
<zard> Ah, ok
<zard> I'm definitely behind on kwrite version (version 21 vs 24)
<Begasus> latest one can't be build with the current frameworks, needs: set(KF5_DEP_VERSION "5.240.0")
<Begasus> so, 23.08.4 is the latest one that can be build for our current version 5.93.0
<zard> Hmm, KF5 looks like a core library of KDE. Is that one hard to update compared to the rest or have you just never gotten around to it?
<Begasus> KF5 is/are the frameworks for KDE, KDE6.0 (KF6) is the next major release planned
<Begasus> so like, akonadi is part of the frameworks
<Begasus> it gets messier :) some of those KF5 libraries are now KPim5 ones :P
<zard> Ah, no wonder they made it a major release. They must have done a lot of rearranging :)
<Begasus> kmail recipe for instance (still on 5.112.0): https://bpa.st/AJZQ
<Begasus> a lot of things in there not in haikuports
<zard> Ok, so kwrite and kate are your first success of KF6?
<Begasus> yep :) (sorry for the confusion)
<zard> np. Congratulations!
<Begasus> hence the window from kwrite, showing KF 5.248.0 :)
<Begasus> thanks :)
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<Begasus> time to close down, been long enough today :)
<Begasus> cu peeps!
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<andreasdr[m]> Cool.
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev57513] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=fabb71cc0e53+%5E6533df4fe4bc
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] fabb71cc0e53 - PCI: Support more than 6 PCI memory ranges.
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<BoxingOctopus[m]> waddlesplash: any idea if something like this would work in terms of wifi? https://www.amazon.ca/TP-Link-Archer-T3U-Adapter-Wireless/dp/B07P6N2TZH
<waddlesplash> what's its usb id
<waddlesplash> eh, it doesn't even list the chipset vendor (probably Realtek but it doesn't say)
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<BoxingOctopus[m]> yeah except it's not quite "daily driveable" yet.
<BoxingOctopus[m]> like as a fan of Haiku, I'm glad for the attention the project is getting, but misinformation also sucks.
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<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [hrev57514] - https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=e5e1f48bf59b+%5Efabb71cc0e53
<nekobot> [haiku/haiku] e5e1f48bf59b - PCI: Convert constant missed in prior commit.
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<extrowerk> BoxingOctopus[m]: we are different, our use-cases are therefore also different. What not DD for you, can be easily DD for somebody else.
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<HaikuUser> Afternoon!
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<waddlesplash> hello
<waddlesplash> ... darn
<BoxingOctopus[m]> welp, good news is, I happened to find a wifi dongle that'll work :)
<BoxingOctopus[m]> tried using the onboard bluetooth, almost got my Soundcore earbuds paired...but then Haiku kernel panicked LOL
<waddlesplash> screenshot?
<waddlesplash> is it just in the bluetooth module? it might be an assert
<waddlesplash> and thus continuable
<BoxingOctopus[m]> I forgot to take one, lemme see if I can duplicate it
<BoxingOctopus[m]> though, now that I think of it, no, the entire OS seized up. No input available.
<BoxingOctopus[m]> keyboard nor mouse input
<waddlesplash> seized up before or after kernel panic?
<BoxingOctopus[m]> after, like almost immediately
<waddlesplash> ok, depending on kernel panic something could have not dropped a lock
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<coolcoder613> Good morning
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<andreasdr[m]> Hi there.
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<Al2O3> good mourning
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